
(Inspired by an AlterNet article on John Edwards and his support for labor unions as part of his anti-poverty strategy, reader diogenes was inspired to write the following piece which echoes what Markos and Jerome say in Crashing the Gate: there is an extremely important bridge that needs to be built between between the netroots and labor. They seem to be fighting may of the same foes — JH)
Bona fides are in order. I am not a high-powered and highly sought-after union honcho, fresh off the weenie circuit. I am a working class Southerner. The only thing I knew about a union for the first two decades of my life was they won the Civil War. I literally did not know a soul that belonged to one.
That changed when US Air bought Piedmont Airlines, and immediately hit financial turbulence. Agents were non-union: pilots, flight attendants and mechanics were organized. We agents took pay and benefit hits, while the union groups got raises. When I asked our CEO why, he said “They have contracts, and you don’t.”
An organizing campaign sprang into life, and I threw myself into it. We eventually got a union, and a contract. My peers elected me to serve them as vice-president and grievance chair, and I co-chaired our legislative committee. It is a somber obligation to represent someone when their job is on the line. It was a joy to make the union case to our congressional delegation. I will be a unionist to the day I die. I also know some of the problems, and the similarities mimic the progressive relationship with the Country Club Democratic (CCD) ‘leadership’ – that’s what got Jane and me talking.
The first problem CCD’s and union leaders have in common is they don’t listen to the membership. Oh, they’ll take our money and let us do the dog work, but they won’t listen to us – I guess a bunch of white folk are learning what our African American brothers and sisters have known all along. Here is a nice little love tap from the DLC, just in case you think they are going to embrace us anytime soon. Unions do the same stuff. During the 2002 North Carolina primary season, the IAM leadership decided, sans any meaningful input from the membership, to endorse Erskine Bowles, former Clinton chief of staff, over Elaine Marshall, secretary of state (she beat the King, who in NC, ain’t Elvis!).
Now the sad fact is, there are children yet unborn who will hate all things Clinton, because mamma and daddy taught them to. There are plenty of those folks in North Carolina. We locals knew if Erskine ran, this would get shoved down our throats. We begged the IAM (The International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers) to reconsider. Elaine had a more compelling story. And with Liddy Dole going to get the Republican nod and $$$, how nice (and smart) would it have been for the Dem’s to be as progressive as the Reps? Moreover, even if Elaine lost, she’d be on the bench if John Edwards decided to run for President (I had no knowledge at the time, just a good vibe!).
Bottom line was, a Clintonite couldn’t win dogcatcher in the Old North State. Did the IAM listen, or even have a mechanism to listen? Nooooooo, so we and Erskine got our asses handed to us.
Fast forward to 2004. Edwards’ seat comes open, and the Reps put up a congressman nobody heard of. Who did the IAM endorse? Did they learn anything from the last go-around? Did they listen to the locals? Nooooooo, they went with —- Erskine! We got this for a suppository this time. Elaine would have mopped the floor with Burr: we and Erskine got our asses handed to us. Senator Burr went on to renege on his promise to oppose CAFTA (and his freakin’ part of the state used to be textile mill Mecca!). I guess when CCD’s can’t vote against working people, they’ll hold the coat of a Republican who can.
The second problem CCD’s and union leaders share is they have forsaken their membership. CCD’s vote for NAFTA, and unions funnel them PAC money as a thank-you. When have you seen union leadership really hold an elected official’s feet to the fire for betrayal? To the point of cutting off the money? Withholding support? You haven’t. ‘Cause they are in it together, and the game is perpetual cocktail weenies and the good life. Somebody’s gotta pay for it, and that somebody is us.
During the 2004 campaign season, most unions threw their weight behind Gephardt. That was cool – Gephardt has fought the good fight for working class folks (I’d loved to have seen him win). When Gephardt didn’t take off in Iowa, the AFL-CIO tapped Kerry. Problem was, Kerry had been seen as accepting a US Airways failure rather than accepting the proposed US Airways – United merger in 2000. The IAM represented ramp agents and mechanics at US Airways.
IAM fell in line, again without so much as a by-your-leave from their members, endorsing Kerry. Kinda gives you a warm feeling when your union endorses a guy calling for the end of your career. It also frosted me the unions fell in behind Kerry while Edwards was still viable. From a pragmatic viewpoint, the country was electing good ol’ boys. They gonna relate to a Brahmin, or the son of a mill worker? I thought at the time, and events have proven me right: CCD’s fear populism, and by extension, us. I guess they don’t want to get off their lazy asses, and actually have to deliver. Maybe cocktail weenies (if you can’t tell, I totally love the metaphor!) induce torpor, like Thanksgiving turkey.
How has it come to this? It’s as old as the Good Book – “Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. "All this I will give you," he said, "if you will bow down and worship me." It’s easier, and the perks are much nicer, to shake down a few moneybags, than to represent regular folks. Keep the peasants fighting amongst them selves – “I can hire one half of the working class to kill the other half” – and live off their blood and sweat. I knew Bush’s “I’m a uniter; not a divider” was bullshit when he said it, because the last thing the moneybags want is harmony among the proles. Think about it. Every traditional media highlights antagonism and aggression. Survivor shows feature the knife in the back. Which way has the hate needle pegged in the last six years?
CCD’s would rather eat their children than heed their membership. They dread us more than Republicans – they have more in common with Republicans. Unions are not going to listen to dues-paying members – the leadership has more in common with the CEO’s. CCD’s are counting on us to remember the Nader factor, hold our noses and vote for their guy – then on to business as usual on the cocktail weenie and corporate jet circuit. They are not going to accommodate us, or cede an inch.
We know Feingold gets this. Dean gets it. Edwards gets it, too. I can’t tell you how smart I think it is for Edwards to bypass the leadership, and address the roots. If you want to engage unions in the netroots, forget the hierarchy. Talk to local legislative and grievance committee members – they are already activists. They’ve already butted their heads against the corporate and union hierarchy, and are ready for alternatives. So are their members. These are the folks that do the dirty work of voter turn-out.
Hooking up net activists and union activists is a huge piece of the puzzle, and good on FDL for talking responsibility into their own hands, and making things happen. If we’re going to have a democracy, we’ve got to pitch in.
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fitz!
fitz me once
fitz me twice, ’tis ever so nice
dare i fitz thrice -
i’ll take your advice…
(no)
Don’t think about elephants!
FATS
Rove’s speech at the AEI has disappeared from the Coming Events section at AEI’s website.
http://www.aei.org/events/filter.all/events.asp
Something may be coming down the pike in the next week.
You are all so F___ing clever !!
Great post. I believe in unions, and I’m delighted to see a post from a working union member. Take a look at this post in my blog on how a union guy is using Wal-Mart to work toward national health insurance. Great work.
I am starting to feel proud to be an American again. Excellent day at FDL!
Ha Ha Ha I never thought I would laugh my ass off so much………………….is it my imagination or has this been the punchlince for too F____ing long ???????????………… Get a life…….. or a sense of humor !!!!!!!!!!!!!
thanks digogenes -
i’m settling down to read your excellent synthesis.
thank you.
in Seattle at the WTO protests so many of the rank and file showed up spontaneously – madder than hell than the (majority of) union leaders has sent the rank and file marching around.
the rank and file who showed up (obviously self-selected) kept saying most of the marchers wanted to be with “the hippies”, but the bosses said it would bad for Clinton.
shit, it was just their jobs the WTO gave away. don’t want to disrupt any high-level grin fests here.
Any chance of editing the post to define IAM?
Assume it is The International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers, but I had to look this up.
by working in your local Democratic Party, you will quickly discern who in the local labor movement is actually out there hustling and who is merely hustling…
sigh: proofreading…
12
– madder than hell that the (majority of) union leaders had sent the rank and file marching around instead of joining the human cordon of protesters.
I was just looking at new stories on Patrick Fitzgerald on Google, and it says–Jason Leopold again–that Fitzgerald presented Rove’s lawyers with indictments yesterday. I know the rumors have been flying, but is there any way to confirm or refute?
curve666 at 16 – that info is so last-thread — ho, hum
Been there – done that – got the T-shirt: FROGMARCHED
VG 13 — done, good suggestion.
Thanks so much to diogenes for writing this post, which will hopefully be the first of many we’ll be doing about labor. It’s really important and this kind of boots-on-the-ground perspective is really important and certainly what we’ll be cultivating.
Fitzalicious!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://photos1.blogger.com/blo…../Rover.jpg
LATE BREAKING: ROVE INFORMS WH HE WILL BE INDICTED
Sorry to be OT, but anybody heard anything else about this?
http://forum.truthout.org/blog…..155941/174
I think we have a visitor who forgot to take his meds.
Out here in SF, folks still remember the late 70s when the openly gay Harvey Milk beat the establishment Dems (Feinstein included) in his run for the Board of Supervisors. He did it not only by organizing the gay community to support one of their own instead of one of their fine straight allies as had always been done, and also be getting out and building support among the labor unions. At the time, the unions were fighting Coors who used only non-union drivers, etc., and Milk went out and got the gay bars to support the unions and boycott Coors.
Randy Shilts’ book “The Mayor of Castro Street” tells the story, and the part that this post reminds me of is when the head of one of the big unions – an ironworker, IIRC – went to a candidate night, met Milk and was quite impressed. He then was talking to another union leader who was not there, who said “You’re not seriously thinking of supporting a queer, are you?” The answer was something like, “No, I’ve already decided that. I’m trying to think about how to get the rest of my union brothers to agree.” When the front line union guys (and they were all guys) saw what Milk was doing to support their efforts, they ended up being some of his most vocal and visible supporters.
Made for some interesting campaign pictures: burly pipefitters, ironworkers, and teamsters stuffing envelopes alongside some really snappy-dressing queens . . .
Milk’s formula for victory was simple. He made common cause across some very unlikely boundaries, by keeping in touch with the grass roots and pushing others to do the same. His message for victory was simple, too, and easily translates here: You’ve got to give them hope!
Thanks for the good words, diogenes!
I call the CCD’s Davos Democrats — the Davos Dems and K-Street GOoPers will always vote for big money first, expecting the benefits to trickle down to the rest of us.
Here’s a clue, Davos Democrats — there is no such thing as Free Trade. CAFTA, NAFTA, and GATT benefit the investor class, but destroys the lives of the workers. Free movement of capital is not free trade, and does not benefit anyone except the investor class. Free Trade is a sham, designed to sell out the Middle Class for the benefit of the Upper Class.
In the boom times of the 1990s, there was enough prosperity to mask the effects of hollowing out the working class; now, even the high skilled jobs are moving to India.
Great post, Diogenes — more like this, please . . .
Karl Rove has, apparently, been indicted and the indictments were served on his attorneys by Fitz on Friday…
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/051306W.shtml
Like nearly all of our institutions, unions tend to be top-down and corrupt. But unions are nonetheless the indispensable instrument for employees to influence their compensation and working conditions. (The fact that Pentagon procurement is a cesspool of criminality doesn’t mean that we don’t need a defense department.) Democratic reform of union governance should be high on the progressive agenda.
Sounds like the same old story-cocktail weenies make you fat and lazy,antagonistic to those who put you in power TO REPRESENT THEM.Hard to pry them out of their powerful positions,they cling like a tick behind a dog’s ear.If we all pull together we might do it over time,but the ‘good guys’ we put in will eventually turn into weenie eaters too.
My point is,even if we win,our job is never over.
Roman xp-47 and just asking,
Don’t take this one source as proof,truthout can be iffy.
great post Diogenes! isn’t it interesting that the DLC front is so interested in proving that class politics won’t win?
they won’t win for *them* that’s for sure!
David Sirota’s new book, “Hostile Takeover”, is all about this kind of stuff. He’s going to be signing books and visiting the Denver Drinking Liberally on 5/24, which is sooo exciting! Is he on the FDL Book Club discussion list yet?
http://www.davidsirota.com/
Be nice if it was true,though.
I’m chompin’ at the bit waiting for Greenwald’s new book.
“There was an old zany who lived in a tub;
He had so many fleabites
He didn’t know where to rub.
He kept looking for an honest man
Said “I’m gonna find him if I can”
If i could meet Diogenes today,
This is what i’d say:
Rub-a-dub-dub
Oh, Diogenes!
Find a man who’s honest!
Oh, Diogenes!
Wrap him up for me
Oh, Diogenes!
Find a man who’s stolid-solid
Hook that fish if he’s in the sea
Hunt him! Trail him!
Catch him! Nail him!
If he is free
Have you got your stick?
Have you got your lantern?
Can you do the trick
And produce him, please!
Catch that fellow!
Ring that bell,
Oh,
Oh!
Oh, Diogenes!”
Very important point about Harvey Milk, Peter. That’s PRECISELY why he was murdered.
Hi from Florida -
Catching on the day’s news, sitting in the Sunshoppe in Melbourne (http://www.sunshoppecafe.com/), where they have free customer WiFi. Tired after a red-eys night and afternoon in the rehab unit.
Wow, Cheney’s notes, and this from the NYTimes:
“WASHINGTON, May 13 — In the weeks after the Sept. 11 attacks, Vice President Dick Cheney and his top legal adviser argued that the National Security Agency should intercept purely domestic telephone calls and e-mail messages without warrants in the hunt for terrorists, according to two senior intelligence officials…”
Dirty fux are goin’ DOWN!
So, what else is goin’ on?
its also worth noting that the DLC has made no significant inroads into African-American political activists. Young Mr. Ford has such tendencies but he’s still coasting on his family’s machine…
As I recall, the DLC was organized specifically to counter the populism of the Jesse Jackson Campaign…
Diogenes, nice to have you here.
I am amazed at the erosion of support for the working class in America. I really can’t understand it, to be honest. People have been voting against their own financial interests for decades.
In the meantime, we have become a country that values investing and consulting over labor. We have an “I’m too good for real work” mentality.
I think it’s an indicator that we are on a decline as a nation.
TRANSCRIPTS OF ROBERTS ON LOU DOBBS – IS HE SAYING THAT THEY ARE LISTENING TO DRUG DEALERS,
CHILD PORNOGRAPHERS, AND THE OLD STANDBY, terrorists?
If we did not have the program, America would be less safe. If we did have — if we’d had this program prior to 9/11, I think the chances of at least stopping that terrible tragedy would have been increased. I’m not saying it would have done it, but under General Hayden’s viewpoint and others, we could have had that opportunity. Now it shouldn’t come as any surprise ….
DOBBS: … Senator, if we start working with the ifs and where-ifs, if we’d had a CIA that was in any way an effective intelligence agency maybe it wouldn’t have happened.
ROBERTS: I agree with that.
DOBBS: If we had an FBI agency that was
correctly run, resourced and managed,perhaps it wouldn’t have. We could go to a lot of ifs.
ROBERTS: Lou, you’re talking to the guy who ran the WMD inquiry that proved that we had an intelligence failure, so that’s fine. People should not be, what, alarmed or surprised that intelligence analysts and law enforcement people used the business records or the telephone records of people, not the content in regards to all sorts of things.
(spacing mine)
whether you’re a drug dealer, a child pornographer or a terrorist, that’s what we’re talking about.
(spacing mine)
We’re not talking about content. It is a means so that we can pursue a terrorist with speed, agility and hot pursuit. I’ll tell what you I’m worried about.
DOBBS: Yes, sir.
ROBERTS: This is the leaks that continue to go on about this program, which is the highest classified program we have. Now the people have a right to know. But if we let the people know everything in regards to what we’re doing to fighting terrorism, the terrorists know. And they learn and so America is less safe today because of these leaks.
Is he saying that they are using this survellience to go after drug dealers and child pornographers? The way he said it – sounded like it.
diogenes and Jane: Thanks very much for carrying this conversation forward at FDL. I’ve wondered whether the netroots and the progressive labor movement might ever make common cause; it seems like such a natural alliance.
Making the point that we share difficulties shaking our leaders out of their comfortable collusion with the opposition is a great way to get us thinking about other commonalities. Diogenes, was there much reaction within your organization to the SEIU and its allies facing down the AFL-CIO? That seemed, from the reporting I saw, to be exemplary of “crashing the gate.” But I know labor politics is complicated and wondered what the inside view might be.
Just getting up to speed on all the new Fitzmas stuff. If Libby was warned about the ramifications of leaking Plame’s name, which we now know, and then continued to leak it, which we know he did, isn’t that game set and match under the Intelligence Identities Act?
Surely it’s only a matter of time before he’s charged under it?
hmmmm… FDL could be outsourced — Jane could be in Bangalore and Redd in Delhi — the flora and fauna they observe might seem a tad strange to us Hoosiers…
Hi Bobby G- hope you are doing okay. Music question- “there’s a full moon rising and trouble’s on the way”? from?
Also, if wasn’t evident before, I did read the Diogenes post carefully, with much interest. Thanks. I learn so much at FDL.
Mr. Diogenes: I also think, as a part of the problem, that the Democratic party lost alot of bedrock labor/union support over….oh, a number of years…but thru the party going further and further left…to the point that many bedrock folks began to think that all the Democrats stood for were “all things gay”, being “sensitive” instead of being leaders, and promotion of butch-like qualities in women. Dissatisfaction set in.
The “R” team brilliantly stood into the breech and sucked these voters over to their side with their littany of “morals issues”.
If the Democrats could get a bunch of leaders like Murtha back in the fold, I think many union guys would RUN back into the arms of the party. But so far, there’s still too many Democratic leaders who just come off as…sissies.
Ghostman
modern Labor’s activists goals and the netroots are not dissonant one bit. It’s a natural fit. I see no splitting issues at play…
diogenes,
you are a very good writer. Like listening to a wise sage tell a story in the shade of a willow tree on a warm sunny evening while enjoying a cool glass of lemonade.
Or being disarmed by the apparently disorganized Lt. Colombo, only to discover that true genius stands before you.
Jane, diogenes is a keeper.
harry says: “Surely it’s only a matter of time before he’s charged under it?”
May 13th, 2006 at 5:16 pm
Yes, possibly, as long as a greymail defense can be circumvented – let’s see what the lawyers here have to say.
Excellent post, having grown up in a NE union town and seeing firsthand their benefits to all workers, I’m appalled at the anti-union fervor among lower income workers here in North Carolina.
There’s such a deference to to the wealthy and company owners, one can really see firsthand the results of the union movement failing (sometimes violently) to take root down here
in the South.
The results are that workers typically earning $ 30,000, if they’re lucky, enthusiastically voting for anti-worker, anti-union Republicans who promptly pursue policies increasing regressive sales & property taxes, and cutting progressive taxes for the wealthy and corporations.
I wonder how bad it must get for most Americans before the age old misrepresentations of unions and Democrats are finally exposed.
*ilson,
Not knowing what DLC was an acronym for,I went ahead and did a search for it.Got to their page and had a look see.Noticed one big thing missing.Then I went to the DNC page(I got the two confused last week),and there it was;CONTACT US.What I came away with was the feeling that DLC does not want to hear from us,and the DNC does.
This June I will have been a fully pay up member the Int. Union of Operating Engineers (I.U.O.E.) for 50 YEARS.J H damm sure has hit the nail on the head. It has broken my heart to have lived knowing that from the Gen Pres. on down to the local level figure the membership are nothing but $$$$ and power for then to exploit for THERE OWN GOOD. They have never said SHIT about the Phoney Sec. of Labor who are their protector
Diogenes. Just excellent.
One of the things you won’t hear from current MA Gov. Mitt Romney in his Presidential campaign is how the third largest city in the state is operating under de facto state receivership, and the state appointed finance board has the power to override Mayor/City Council negotiated contracts with teacher, police and fire department unions. Rescinding raises, retirement, and health benefits. They can’t strike.
I’m surprised you’ve had such a change of heart, Jane, as you’ve trashed Edwards up and down at any and every opportunity. Granted, I’ve always found his focus on poverty compelling, but you just couldn’t get past, something…who knows? What was it you couldn’t get past again? He didn’t grovel enough after he admitted he made a huge mistake voting for the initial Iraq bill?
You were a Dean fan. Has Dean atoned for his sins yet?
Valley Girl says: “Music question- “there’s a full moon rising and trouble’s on the wayâ€? from?”
May 13th, 2006 at 5:20 pm
It reminds me of Creedence Clearwater Revival’s Bad Moon Rising, but it could be something else.
punaise – can you help her out, please, by consulting your repository of lyrics?
The dissappearing of the Rove speech at AEI. Now that is a tasty little morsel to be chewed on and savored.
Monday, something is coming down on Monday. The President is trying to control the media with his speech.
Other sources, namely the NYT are running with the news about Cheney’s stumpy fingers scrawling notes about Val Wilson(between naps fer shure)…
Look for a terror alert sometime very soon.
Add in all of the Biblical weather that has been pounding Florida and Texas and I think the jig is almost up.
-GSD
Valley Girl 40
Creedence Clearwater.
(((((*!*)))))
xoxoxo
DLC == Democratic Leadership Council == Vichy Democrats == Lieberman, Bayh, etc.
Creedence Clearwater Revival › Bad Moon Rising
I see the bad moon arising.
I see trouble on the way.
I see earthquakes and lightnin’.
I see bad times today.
Chorus:
Don’t go around tonight,
Well, it’s bound to take your life,
There’s a bad moon on the rise.
I hear hurricanes ablowing.
I know the end is coming soon.
I fear rivers over flowing.
I hear the voice of rage and ruin.
Chorus
All right!
Hope you got your things together.
Hope you are quite prepared to die.
Looks like we’re in for nasty weather.
One eye is taken for an eye.
Valley Girl #40
Bad Moon Rising, Creedence Clearwater Revival
GSD says: “The dissappearing of the Rove speech at AEI. Now that is a tasty little morsel to be chewed on and savored.”
May 13th, 2006 at 5:26 pm
Where was the announcement of that speech posted? Earlier today, I missed seeing where it was posted, so if the announcement was on AEI’s Web site and subsequently removed, that appears to be significant. We will see…
never mind.
DMM–thx for the cold water. I’ve thought Truthout was generally pretty good, but haven’t watched them closely enough to gauge their reliability 100%.
Stephen Parrish, CPA-
Yes, that’s it. My memory is faulty. Probably skewed by all of the talk about the recent full moon. Thanks!
i’m swooning a bit, but anyone else think bush’s “immigration” speech could be a cover for a bigger annoucement? something along the lines of the vice president being run over by a bus?
dare to dream, it’s the weekend…
Creedence Clearwater Revival, Bay Area natives who somehow channeled a pitch-perfect Delta/bayou muse, if i may say so. They got totally ripped off by producer Saul Zantz (later of movie fame – Amadeus?)
50, and many others, on all this Rove is indicted stuff…someone, via MSM (because they have resources) ought to start snooping around on the real-time movements of the key players….that might be the way to figure out if this is for real or not. When something big is afoot, you can usually detect changes in movement/location patterns of key leaders/players. I know it all sounds “spooky-ish”, but that’s what usually is a telling sign. Will the MSM do this kind of leg-work tonight? In the morning? Haha.
Ghostman
#58
I can drive nearly as good as he can shoot.
*ilson,
Oh yeah,I could read between the lines of their site,insulated,in the bubble weenie eaters.
The reaction of Hillery’s people to the ‘roots activests of late has been very interesting.
Solidarity, brother.
without Labor, the Democratic Party is simply the GOP Lite.
most of the things which progessives are proud of in their history come from the Labor movment and the lack of spine the Democrats show over economic issues stem from the loss of Labor’s strength in the party.
I want economic democracy. Only the efforts of the organized workers can bring that about.
Hey gang – when I was at a recent Darfur rally, a speaker suggested that we all – right there and then – program the number for the White House into our cell phones – and then call them frequently. Here’s the number:
202-456-1414
a person answers – just tell them you have a comment for the president and during business hours they connect you to the comment line. You could also just tell them our message (thinking of calls outside of business hours, like after a presidential speech?)
seems like a useful tidbit in preparation for whatever Monday brings.
Let’s keep them busy and call often!
Roman,
I just want to see it somewhere else,then I’ll crack a beer to toast the demise of the king of backstab politics.
“LarryB” (if that’s what you’re calling yourself today, IP’s don’t lie, whatever…)
The observant will note that a) I didn’t write this story, and b) if you’d like to go back and back up that claim about Edwards you’re welcome to. You know where I am.
I’ve thought the Monday speech was a preemptive cover up of the NSA-Gate story — maybe it’s intended to cover up the TreasonGate Rove frog march.
Ghostman,
Please, they will only tail a politiciain if it is something important. You know like whether or not Gary Hart was getting his noodle schlooped by Donna Rice…..
-GSD
SP.
It had been noted that Rove was delivering a speech. I don’t know if it had been noted in the AEI website and subsequently removed…that is what is implied on post # 7.
Jane- a question- as a producer in LA, was there a union that you had to belong to? I’m wondering if there might be something like SAG for producers? Any union experiences? Also, I realize that this is sorta OT and personal, so I will understand if you don’t want to reply. I have virtually no union experience or frame of reference except SAG. Local lore is that AFL-CIO drove film production companies out of some southern states (like GA). Alas, didn’t result in more film work elsewhere in the US, but less- and film companies doing more work in in Canada generally to avoid union costs. I hope I am not offending anyone with these comments- I just have a very limited perspective.
I guess we better all be careful!
Cleveland Women Put In Gulag And Held For Psyh Eval For Trying To Put Up Anti-Bush Poster
Carol Fisher is being held indefinitely in a surprise May 9 court hearing, becoming another political prisoner held illegally for speaking out against Bush.
13 May 2006
Outrageous!
Scooter and Karl both born 1950. They’d be 19 when ‘Bad Moon Rising’ was in heavy rotation.
Wonder if they’ve put it on their iPods…
FYI about Bush’s militarization of the border proposal:
during the 25 years of the Berlin Wall, 800 folk died trying to cross that border.
between 1998 to 2004, 2000 people died trying to cross the border from Mexico.
one reason unions have lost so much ground is the increasing degree of global competition — americans no longer get a proper education: the proof being that if we look at per capita figures, india & china, for instance, graduate many times our proportion of scientists & engineers — that’s why even if we erect barriers to trade, we’re doomed to fail unless we do something about educating our kids instead of throwing trillions of dollars at our military — it’s not enough to have enthusiasm if one hasn’t the knowledge or skills to compete: the world doesn’t wait for the ignorant to decide they want to learn
SP,
The speech is noted here:
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/…..ve-speaks/
Peculiar that they would not have it on their website, along with all of the other speeches that are noted.
-GSD
talking about workers – a friend from EqualExchange just mentioned that they are hiring – near Boston and then also somewhere west coast – worker’s cooperative company, very good folks and 100% fair trade – it you know of anyone looking, tell them to check it out.
An interesting fact from my work life – the UN Global Compact has been asking companies worldwide to endore a set of principals for responsible behavior. The UNGC has taken off in many parts of the world but the principal of freedom to unionize has held back the growth of the coalition here in the States – sad but true.
Oh LarryB, btw — I won’t out you. Not publicly, anyway ;) *wink wink*
BlanK 73 – Wonder if they’ve put it on their iPods…
they sure weren’t in the rice paddies
on all this Rove is indicted stuff…someone, via MSM (because they have resources) ought to start snooping around on the real-time movements of the key players…
Hah!!! As if — that’s too much like investigative journalisming, which everyone knows is hard work. It’s so much easier to take dictation from anonymous (cough, Rove, cough) WH sources, and besides — if you do investigative reporting and stuff, the GOP Kewl Kidz will cut off your cocktail weenie rations . . .
ummm… “producers” are by very definition: management
Raw Story has some excerpts from tomorrow’s Frank Rich column in the Times, in which Rich all but calls Bush a traitor:
It’s the recklessness at the top of our government, not the press’ exposure of it, that has truly aided the enemy, put American lives at risk and potentially sabotaged national security. That’s where the buck stops, and if there’s to be a witch hunt for traitors, that’s where it should begin.
Just another word of caution. I wouldn’t put it past the WH to leak a story, try to get people to buy into it, and then use that to try and undermind the credibility of the people repeating it when the story turns out to be bogus. Look how Rove et. al. was able to short-circuit the National Guard story with the CBS/Memogate fiasco.
Caution is required. Even the ‘MSM’ has goofed up royally lately – just look at what happened with the W. Virginia mining disaster. I will believe Rove is indicted when I hear Fitzgerald say it. Not before.
*ilson — right you are. No union.
OT:
Nice of John McCain to stop lolling Falwell’s wizened knob around long enough to spit out some seeds of stupidity.
Hey, ’straight talker’…In the words of a former Canadian Prime Minister (not the current one lauded as an ‘intellectual’ at the expense of your president, ‘intellectual’ evidently a new code word for ‘gives up the lunch money smooth’) … ‘There’s no whore like an old whore.’
The left might have thought you a victim of the Karl Rove crush in ‘00 and viewed you as a wronged noble creature, but you’re fresh out of credibility and friends there now.
Enjoy your wasted opportunities.
punaise
yep. was just gonna point that out.
Unions have very little power in right to work states. Wanna see which states are “right to work”? Just look at the map of the last presidential election. Most of the “red” states are “right to work”. That’s the major political issue that gets no discussion.
Play amongst yourselves. I’ll be right here, cleaning up my blogroll.
I just love Wordpress software. Really can’t recommend it highly enough.
http://www.nrtw.org/rtws.htm
Link to map of “right to work” states.
“Right to Work” means that union shop contracts are illegal.
Maybe McCain will call some 13 year old girl “ugly” so he can insult her parents again too.
He is the second biggest tool in the box.
-GSD
To quote some very dead old writer: “When Pericles speaks, the people turn to each other and say, ‘How well he does orate!’ When Diogenes speaks, the people march.” Welcome here, Diogenes.
Oh, and Virtual Bumper Sticker of the Day:
Let the Piglet Soar!
70, and 80…..yep. I think you’re right on target. Sad. Oh!, 70, yes, the AEI matter…I neglected to mention, that IS a tell-tale sign, if confirmed. IF being the operative word.
What SHOULD MSM be doing? RIGHT NOW, they get their people out…Luskin office, his home, Rover office, where is the Pres? Where is Fitz? Any unusual arrivals at the WH? A bunch could be done…but, you’re right. Too much dogged reporter work for those folks.
Ghostman
Oilfeildguy,
That is some scary shit!
rwcole- I noticed that too when I went googling for “right to work” and found a “right to work” site (anti-union) that had a map of union vs. right to work states. There were a few anomalies, but mostly just what you say. I don’t want to drive traffic to the site, but if anyone googles, it is easy to find.
btw Jane, please feed the gerbil in the wheel — the server is running noticeably slower than usual for the last few hours. The poor lil critter must be getting pooped…
rw- okay, I see you have posted a link to the same site and map that I found.
I belong to a union that, as far as I can tell, does f^#k-all, except send out the occasional email vowing that this year will, at last be the year that we get good insurance. Followed a few months later by a sheepish email admitting that this, in fact, is not that year. But maybe next year.
*ilson- must be a local gerbil- I haven’t noticed any change in access time myself.
hmmm…could blogroll cleaning have popped up on the agenda around, say, 78?
I don’t know if the tr-th o-t story is correct- but I DO think that Rove’s dead meat- we’ll hear about it in the next two weeks- chalk her up–
Next fat ass? The shooter. Then things REALLY get interesting!
*ilson — we’re changing servers either tomorrow or Monday. We’re becoming part of the Crooks & Liars world server empire and should be must faster.
OT –
‘DOJ Moves to Dismiss AT&T Class Action under Cover of Night’
http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/archives/004659.php
Valley- yeah- big time gooper site- I wasn’t worried about turning any FDL people into goopers.
GREAT post — see my labor comment Santorum post (this morning) number 48.
Jane and Christy, you guys are too cool for school. Always two steps ahead of the meme.
The unions are very important to the democratic party- but membership is slipping- outsourcing of labor offshore is part of the problem- but right to work laws are also a major factor. Big dollars are committed to keeping the right to work laws intact. It would be a major breakthrough if dems could flip a few states. Nevada might be a good target.
diogenes: thank you for this post. It clarifies a few issues for me. I see there is a “Labor” discussion slot at Yearly Kos. Does anyone know if a netroots/labor marriage is on the agenda for discussion?
When Nevada and Colorado go dependably blue- turn out the lights- the party’s over.
Diogenes, this was a very, very good post – right up with the best we have seen here at FDL.
Man was it good to see this after the crap about unions posted at the supposedly progressive Blue Oregon site last weekend.
DMM @ #93
It’s as though we live in a dictatorship without ever moving. That judge is wacko! And the cops, the whole deal is outrageous. Everybody needs to be aware of it as the latest crimes against citizenry.
It is the slippage in union membership that pushes the democratic party in the Clinton DLC direction.
Dems have to make up for the loss of labor votes- and the goopers have snagged a lot of working people with their social issues message. It’s a major strategic problem for dems- probably the BIGGEST strategic problem. If they can’t count on the working man vote- they have to look elsewhere- and corparations are one place to look.
rwcole: as I recall, Nevada recently was the most unionized state in the union — the casino/hotel workers are mostly union…lemme Google the info
From the last thread:
Caldonia says:
May 13th, 2006 at 3:49 pm
136, 136 Gyro Gear Lo*se
AEI’s website doesn’t list any events for Monday
Kelly O’Donnel on Tinman’s CNBC show tonight, {Which probably taped yesterday}. Mentioned Rove’s speech to the AEI… It was to be on security and how that will play in the campaign for the fall. That speech has been reported on several times in the last few days.
Given that Rove is such a star, I find it very strange that AEI would forget to post it. If anybody is plugged into the lawyers on the Libby/Rove side it’s those folks at AEI.
Karl Rove Indicted on Charges of Perjury, Lying to Investigators
**********************************
Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald spent more than half a day Friday at the offices of Patton Boggs, the law firm representing Karl Rove.
During the course of that meeting, Fitzgerald served attorneys for former Deputy White House Chief of Staff Karl Rove with an indictment charging the embattled White House official with perjury and lying to investigators related to his role in the CIA leak case, and instructed one of the attorneys to tell Rove that he has 24 hours to get his affairs in order, high level sources with direct knowledge of the meeting said Saturday morning.
Robert Luskin, Rove’s attorney, did not return a call for comment. Sources said Fitzgerald was in Washington, DC, Friday and met with Luskin for about 15 hours to go over the charges against Rove, which include perjury and lying to investigators about how and when Rove discovered that Valerie Plame Wilson was a covert CIA operative and whether he shared that information with reporters, sources with direct knowledge of the meeting said. [continued]
http://patrickjfitzgerald.blogspot.com
112 — I think it was posted. Some are reporting here that it was REMOVED.
rw- as I’ve said above, I have very limited personal experience with union issues. Obviously, you are more savvy. I really am interested in the question of unionization vs. companies taking work outside the US. I hardly know where to begin with questions. I don’t usually post questions on FDL that I can answer for myself via googling, but I do need some help here. e.g. what types of unionization would be viable, in that jobs are of the sort that have to remain local, vs what types of unionization is up against outsourcing? Just for starters.
#56 — reported in “The Note”. Here is link to Rove speech May 15 at AEI:
http://www.aei.org/events/type…..detail.asp
The above event is missing from the “Upcoming Events” page at AEI:
http://www.aei.org/events/filter.all/events.asp
The question is, was it ever listed on the Upcoming Events page? If so, then it was removed, and Rove has canceled/rescheduled. If not, then no big deal.
from 1996: NY was #1, Michigan was #2, Alaska #3 but Nevada is #5. California is #15. These are ranked by % of workforce unionized. Source: Census Bureau
Going back to this morning’s Howie Kline post(I haven’t had time to hit the keyboard today).A good post,but a little late in the cycle don’t you think?I can’t stand Chuck S.and his DSCC but any Dem would be better than Sanitorium.I propose helping Lamont hand Leiberman his ass,then hanging his sorry political hide on the castle wall as a deterent to all that would blow smoke up Bush’s ass.
If we can do good in this election cycle,when would Chuck Schumer come up for re-election?How ’bout a phat primary challenge for him in the future?
105: right to work has always been a huge thorn in the side for unions. Outsourcing too. And, even though immigration is a hot topic around here….the influx also damages organized labor. Mexicans work cheaper, and will not organize…they’re too afraid to rock the boat and face possible deportation. They are a sort of “internal” outsourcing…if that makes sense.
One thing Mr. Diogenes writes about which all you netroots folks ought to pay CLOSE attention to: he’s right about the willingness of rank-and-file to do all the grunt work a campaign requires. Union folks WILL put signs in the yard, use bumper stickers, go down to the Union Hall or local Democratic office and stuff envelopes, man phone banks, go door to door, alert ALL their membership as to who to vote for, give rides to voters on election day, etc etc etc.
But, in my opinion, they need to be re-energized. And that starts at the top. Get some Murtha types in leadership positions within the party. The rank-and-file will come back.
Ghostman
I told ya Jane, I put a link up on my blog to your site today. I knew this was gonna happen. You’ll have to upgrade to the hyperdrive dynomatic turbocharged liquid cooled twin booster galactic t-7000 series servers now.
I’m surprised Valley Girl didn’t comment on that horrendous story I linked to. She usually follows all links. And it pays off too, cause she’s smart for a chick ;P
Diogenes, thanks for your detailed and thoughtful post, unions and progressives are indeed a crucial partnership.
“Edwards gets it, too.” As appealing and persuasive as I found the Two Americas theme in campaign 2004, Edwards always struck me as opportunistic and slick in delivering it. I will certainly give the man another listen as a result of your observations. I don’t want to be guilty of judging what’s inside the package by the wrapping paper.
Jane Hamsher says:
May 13th, 2006 at 6:01 pm
I can’t wait to see this; if I’m guessing correctly, the new server you mentioned will be handling some increased traffic from Monday on.
oilfeildguy#110,
I’ve already dropped the story in three mailboxes and will spread it as much as possable.
This kind of bull must be stopped.
I carried a union card for 21 years, AF of M — the Musicians’ Union. What a joke they were/are for most players — outside of symphony, theatre/show, and studio players (less than 5 % of the membership).
The only force they exerted was typically AGAINST the members, for nit-picky frigging “infractions.”
sorry guys, google cache from May 9th of the AEI events page does not show the Rove speech :(
oilfeildguy,
“smart for a chick”?
you are ‘courtin disaster,got a grain of salt with that?
Excellent post, Diogenes.
If I can summarise, the message to me is “Don’t fight them head on. Pull the plug on the support and go round ‘em”.
MacArthur during the campaign to take back the Pacific from the Japanese didn’t battle every division on every island. He simply went round them, cutting off their supplies and left them stranded and useless and in the process saved his troops for the battles that couldn’t be avoided.
I think it has lessons for this battle at hand.
Gawd! you mean you are going to be switching servers during FROGMARCH SEASON? such a move is never smooth and this site will be down sporadically for days and days. Could you please ask Fitz to postpone the indictments until Friday for you to make the switchover work? Please?
(grumble, grumble, mumble, mumble, mutiny, mutiny)
One of the problems with unions and politics is the belief of the leadership that you help your friends and punish your enemies. Meaning, unions endorse based on what pols do on one or two specific issues. This means they endorse republicans because they support one plank while they fuck us on everything else. The Change to Win people are talking loudly about supporting Repubs over dems if repubs do labor things. It’s why Peter King keeps getting re-elected. He is good on union stuff.
Rank and filers have to take their unions back.
Amazing, but not surprising how few of the comments are on topic about the labor movment.
My union, SEIU local 503 in Oregon, has taken a stance to not endorse or contibute money to any elected official who voted against us on our pensions and fight for fair wages. The Democrats were shocked by our refusal to support them in 2004 but the next time around they began to understand we were serious about accountability.
This time around we, based on our membership support, are basically one handedly challenging the Democrat governor who screwed us, lied to us. He suddenly spent $400,000 in the last 5 days on his primary campaign after vowing to not spend any of his campaign funds on the primary.
I am a rank and file member, have held many elected positions from sublocal president to chair of the bargaining team that bargained the 2005-2007 contract with the state.
We are fed up with Democrats or any other party who ask for our support in dollars and volunteer support and then turncoat on us.
More later, maybe. But Diogenes is right on. However, there is hope and my union is taking the lead.
Greg
105 Ghostman seems to be a spoofer troll. In earlier posts he played dumb as a rock. Now he is showing organization and evidence of wide reading. The fact that he is a.)here b.) widely read c.) can spell, grammarfy, and punctuate is totally at odds with his naive “I’m just trying to understand” stupid act the other night. Also note the telltale “which all you netroots folks ought to pay CLOSE attention to:” (you netroots, not we netroots). He ain’t one of us, I call bullshit – let’s not feed him.
Globalization and the free-market Flat-heads went on this whole snake oil sales trip because they wanted to get rid of unions. Unions are too damned, ahh, egali-communist to their way of thinking. All about living wages, making an honest buck, keeping promises and getting ahead incrementally through a mix of merit and seniority. Unions have a deep suspicion of immortal entities with unlimited profit motives (i.e., corporations).
Unions are corruptible, yes, but the level of corruption is penny-ante compared to what the Flat-heads have wrought.
Greg-
My husband belongs to that union too.
Ghostman has always seemed to me too well informed to be playing the ignorant (but willing to learn) rube…
BobbyG
You were obviously NOT a union guy outside the great Urban areas. For example, Austin has always had a very pro-musician union. Sorry your experience sucked. How many hours a day did you have to work? 12? 16?
OT
What well known TV pundit put this on his blog yesterday ?
Friday, May 12, 2006
Give Me Liberty Or Give Me Death
“Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!”
– Patrick Henry, 1775
Americans must now tap into their inner Patrick Henry. A radical among revolutionaries who opposed the U.S. Constitution for giving government too much power, the fiery Virginian would probably set himself on fire today. The government spies on people, lies about it, and, when caught in the act, refuses to give security clearances to the investigators.
If we believe the dubious claim that terrorist threats justify sweeping surveillance without any checks and balances then, in a different context, we have truly come to the ultimate choice that Henry posed: Are we prepared to die for liberty? Not in battle against foreign occupiers, but as a possible consequence of preventing our own government from spying on us? My answer is Yes: If losing freedom be the price of safety, then safety be damned.
Oilfeildguy,
I dropped that story into the mailbox of TPMMuckraker.
Wonderful post, diogenes. I like the “cocktail weenie” trope, too, although I always associate it with an older — much older — use of the “weenie” word. We used to call WWMs (that’s whiny white males, aggrieved by feminism) “weenie waggers.” Cocktail weenies being itty-bitty versions of the real thing fit right in, somehow. But when I see someone referring to the Beltway crowd as “weenie eaters,” I start spraying diet Coke on my keyboard. Too funny.
ditto Greg 131.
FITZ!
hehe
chaneys notes are introduced by teh next attorney general of the united states of america, here’s his filing;
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12…../newsweek/
and from msn
Stephen Parrish, CPA – Found this link to the AEI announcement on Rove’s speech in the comments at TalkLeft. Apparently, it’s not mentioned on the AEI main events page:
http://www.aei.org/events/type…..detail.asp
*ilson 135.
I always thought that — some version of self-proclaimed foil with an edge of insult.
DMM
Good thinking. I know a volunteer for a Dem campaigning for congresscritter. Sent it to her for ammo.
FWIW, Patrick Henry was one of the biggest slave-owners in Virginia. All that liberty-or-death shit was good for outside the plantation fences…
I’m expecting a VG blast any minute now.
pulling VG’s pigtails again Oilfieldguy?
Op99 – I agree re above and will no longer engage that one on anything – tired of provocateurs.
Beautifully stated *ilson 135.
JWR says:
May 13th, 2006 at 6:35 pm
Thank you for posting that link. I clicked on it and am wondering whether the announcement about the speech might have been removed from AEI’s main page after registration closed. Let’s see what happens on Monday.
George Washington had more slaves than Patrick Henry.
VG seems to be involved in the biological field. That chick might make Oilfieldguy the first US Bird Flu patient…
now my turn to rant on the corporate war against unions, forgive the yelling;
we need living wage laws and proper salaries so people don’t have to go on welfare to fix their kids teeth and so they don’t have to get any of my money to pay for their parents safe care when they are too old to care for themselves
it’s RIDICULOUS that WE have to pay the health care for ANY profitable corporations workforce
AND WE SUBSIDIZE PROFITABLE CORPORATIONS PAYROLL WITH OUR TAX DOLLARS…who the HELL thinks THAT’S a good idea?
make them pay their own bills and STOP freeloading off of me and my family, these friggin contributers to politicians get to post the biggest earnings and golden parachutes in the HISTORY of planet earth thanx to their bribes “campaign contributions” and they have SOME FRIGGIN NERVE making me and MY FAMILY pay their friggin bills because they want 100,000 dollar a day salarys…HEY!!!!!…PAY YOUR OWN BILLS AND YOUR OWN WORKERS, DON’T TAKE MY MONEY TO DO IT!
utterly absurd, yet there they are campaigning about unions and there they go making us pay their expenses when there is no union
NO WELFARE TO PROFITABLE CORPORATIONS!
who would argue with that statement?…who
I DON’T CARE IF YOU GIVE
bribes“CAMPAIGN FUNDS” to your favorite politicians, LAWS POLITICIANS PASS FOR CORPORATIONS BENEFIT BECAUSE THEY PAY bribes MONEY SO THEY CAN GET DRACONIAN LAWS PASSED need to be ELIMINATED FROM OUR REPUBLIC, they are intended to weaken the middle class of this country.NO FREE LOADERS, NO WELFARE TO ANYONE OR ANY ENTITY THAT CAN DO FOR THEMSELVES and STOP allowing corporations to get the rest of us to pay the bills they are supposed to be paying for THEIR WORK FORCE
STOP allowing these freeloading corporations to take our money and stop allowing them to send it overseas where kids work from age 4 at pennies on the dollar for 12 hours a day
we have to put back our laws that kept corporations from stealing our money..these laws were rescinded by corrupt politicians
if a corporation wants to send it’s labor force to countries that don’t pay a living wage, add the proper tariiff so there is ab unequal playing field…we need to get the jobs and industries back to this country where they belong, and the reason they are gone is because there are unequal playing fields…this has to stop
or, if a country allows the worforce to form their own company and bargain as such, (known as a union)
*ilson, I hate you, putting me to shame with you succintness.
225 right of center bloggers were polled(poled) and asked who their favorite columnists were.
The happy results:
16) John Stossel (10)
16) Cathy Seipp (10)
16) Glenn Reynolds (10)
16) Caroline Glick (10)
16) David Frum (10)
16) Mike Adams (10)
15) Jeff Jacoby (15)
14) Rich Lowry (16)
13) James Lileks (18)
12) Christopher Hitchens (24)
11) Walter Williams (27)
10) Peggy Noonan (30) — 1
9) Michael Barone (32) — 1
8) Ann Coulter (34) — 4
7) George Will (36) — 2
6) Michelle Malkin (45) — 2
5) Victor Davis Hanson (49) — 3
4) Jonah Goldberg (55)
3) Thomas Sowell (67) — 3
2) Charles Krauthammer (91) — 7
1) Mark Steyn (100) — 15
-GSD
Diogenes, great post. Please, build more bridges. A student asked me “why so much difference between U.S. and England wrt labor?” I referred her to a book by Elizabeth A. Fones-Wolf called The Selling of Free Enterprise. If you aren’t familiar with it, check it out. Much is explained.
ralphinlex
I wonder what labour shortages will mean for unions. I think a lot of current management practices were born in the years of high unemployment, and certainly the employers I work with are just starting to look up and realize that they are going to be in big trouble, if they’re not already. And it won’t just be a matter of importing more skills – there is starting to be considerable competition and active offshore recruitment for skilled labour, with regard to meeting their labour needs. Health, education, trades/technology and public service are feeling it now, and other industries will soon. This may result in a more powerful position for unions.
*ilson46201 @ 145
I love it when people in the 21st century throw rocks at the people in the 18th century.
*ilson,
Many of our past leaders were full of paradox,just as many are today.No one is perfect(espessially where self intrest is concerned).P.Henry’s speech was still inspiring and is still today.
132, op99: oh good gravy! You “might” be referring to my questions on national women’s issues I raised. There had been much discussion, indeed, Ms. Hamsher quoted Mr. Trippi as saying if the “D” team had landed a few million more working women votes, Kerry would’ve won. I wanted to know what those national women’s issues might be. What I learned was that affordable child care for working moms seems to be a very big issue…one which Democratic candidates ought to make as a big campaign plank.
You, and a few others, enjoy laughing at me. That’s ok. It provides me with entertainment. Am I wise/intelligent? I don’t know. But I was always taught that when you don’t understand something…ask questions! Have a good evening, and for all others: All Skate! (chuckle)
Ghostman
GSD 154, please help me understand, what are the associated numbers?
My memories of union members during the Vietnam protest years are Not good ones. Union construction guys were more than willing to beat the crap out of anti-war protesters and voted more often than not for that shit Nixon. The GOP and Nixon bought off the unions during the Vietnam era with big fat pay increases, fueled in large part by the military spending for the Vietnam war. The union members Loved the war up until the point even Nixon and the Congress had to say enough is enough and instituted Wage and Price freezes which cut the party short.
The Vietnam war and the military /corporate spending was Off Budget, ie not the the regular spending budget Congress passed to fund the government. The war spending was financed by selling bonds which came due primarily under Jimmy Carter, which produced killer inflation. The government had to either raise taxes to pay for the war or print the money. Carter was left holding the bag.
The union scene is alot different in many ways this time around for a brand new illegitiment war. The Iraq war is also Off Budget, just like the Vietnam War. Bushit and Company have not bought off the unions with a war spending scam cause Halliburton would like to make All the money but there is a disproportionate number of union members who were Gung Ho for the Iraq War.
What is their turning point this time? Did they finally connect the dots that war spending does not translate into big pay checks? Just big corporate profits? Pretty slow uptake if you ask me. The GOP does not even need to bother buying off the unions with red white and blue jingoist pseudo- patriotic bullshit because they are such a small part of the electoral puzzle.
diogenes, Bless you for your unionizing work. I had a heartbreaker of a unionizing experience with Hospital Union 1199, back in the late 70s, early 80s. This was in NM, a state that hardly had any union workers at all, that I knew of, anyway. We got hassled by union-busting lawyers, I got dragged across a cafeteria floor by a rent-a-cop, and people were too scared to sign their cards. It went nowhere.
Across the street at a different hospital, a few months later, they voted in a union. I still have never worked at a union hospital; there aren’t many of them.
Someone in the comments at TalkLeft found this at the AEI website:
A Policy Address by Karl Rove
http://www.aei.org/events/type…..detail.asp
I notice there’s a phone number listed for more information…
Hello all, and thank you for your kind words. Big props go to Jane for taking a chance on me – thank you, lady Jane!
I’m going to briefly address some points made as I scrolled down thru the comments. If I overlook something, or you want more info, put it here – I’ll be checking in a few times a day.
David @ 32 – loved it!
Urban Pirate @ 35 – You just don’t know – I’m amazed at the folks that think honest work is a disease to be avoided.
Jane_Jericho @ 37 – Part of me is dismayed at the AFl-CIO/Stern division, but I believe something had to happen – I hope Stern is doing the right thing. He is correct on two issues. The AFl-CIO wanted to continue business as usual – that had to change. Stern is putting a lot into organizing, which I agree with. Watch corporations and government conspire to foil Stern – they ain’t sweating Sweeney.
ck @ 23 – I like your moniker for the Quislings, too, but I bet that’s not what we call them in private!
Ghostman @ 41 – Dem’s certainly let themselves get labelled that way, didn’t they? I think an effective strategy for Dem’s is to reclaim the Constitution for 2006 and 2008. The parts that guarantee due process, privacy, checks and balances, etc. How are the Reps’ going to counter – we were for the Constitution before we were against it?
one of the British criticisms of the American Revolution was that they were just a bunch of wealthy slave-owners. Slavery in the USA bagan to weaken when the Royal Navy imposed a blockade on slave-ships. Progressives in 1776 abhorred slavery then as now.
Ghostman, you’re right about the organizing efforts of union workers.
I still see “TEAMSTERS FOR KERRY” stickers on trucks. And my neighborhood was well-canvassed by AFL-CIO workers.
Gyro Gear Lo*se
As an archaeologist, it is my job to pester the 18th century. My very livelihood depends on it.
At least Patrick Henry used his slave wealth to fight monarchy. That’s something, I guess. Baby steps.
Greg 131 -
You rock, your post rocks, and SEIU rocks.
The SEIU built our clinic on the Ellipse for the 2000 IMF/WB demos, they are here for health care workers in California, and they GET IT!
In August 2000, undocumented workers marched through the LA garment district in what at the time was the biggest protest there for over twenty years. The walls rang with chants and music.
My ears rang, too – I’d thrashed my ankle and thus had the medic’s place on the speakers’ truck.
Standing wasn’t an option, so I spent the march sitting out of the way as possible watching the grimy sweatshop walls roll slowly past.
All along the route, from many floors up, the windows popped open and hands and faces appeared.
Most all of the faces and arms were brown – and all the faces I saw were smiling.
And all along the route were the purple shirts of the SEIU organizers, working another day for some of the poorest people in LA.
Thanks for your work and the SEIU’s work.
Opp,
The numbers in parenthesis I assume are the number of votes cast for each particular columnist. I did not stick around in Crackerstan long enough to figure out the meaning of the numbers with the (-) before them.
Hitch is finally getting some love from the totalitarians again. Must seem like the good old days.
Also, notice the Doughy Pantload(J. Goldberg) and Malkin and Coulter….a nice fascist trifecta..kind of a creepy twist on the 1940’s axis.
-GSD
I wonder if we could deputize displaced union workers to insure corporate compliance of not hiring illegal immigrants and pay them with the fines they generate?
They would wake up every morning with a smile on their face, knowing that somebody out there had there money. Just go and get it.
here’s what corporate America wants to hide from middle America
when there are fewer laborers then positions, that industry is supposed to pay a premium price for the labor which is in short supply
however the industry will try to force a lower wage on these laborers if they are able to do it when the laborer can’t do much else.
so there is the push pull, a commodity that is in short supply, but the commodity desperately needs to put food on the table for their family and they are therefore not able to command the value that supply and demand should indicate.
if that labor segment is smart they unite and form their own company (known as a union) and that company representing the work force sells the commodity for the proper value or they can withold their goods until the actual rates are realized as their market value indicates
this is a good thing for America and most people, but to the corporate world it’s a bad thing, they don’t want to pay the rate that the market indicates…tough luck, they have to pay the value supply and demand indicates, oh, poor poor corporations.
if the company that needs the goods which the union provides, it either pays the price or tries to get non union labor to do the job, however getting another supplier of that resource comes at a price also, the company will obviously pay the cost of training their new labor force and that cost is substantial
when the new labor force is trained they will obviously want the proper compensation once they are properly trained….and the circle goes round.
this circle is circumvented when corporations are allowed to export the jobs to parts of the world that do not allow collective bargaining
we need to at least tariff those countries that do not allow a workforce to form their own company and market their product as a commodity
bing
Here’s Talor Marsh’s take on the latest Fitz news.She notes the truthout story also and does’t take it as gospel.
http://www.taylormarsh.com/arc…..hp?id=2360
Ghostman,
“All Skate! (chuckle)”
It took me a minute but THAT’s funny! LOL
immanentize 136 -
W’sup?
If you’re a symphony musician, studio, musician, or theatre/show musician, the Musicians’ Union made/makes sense.
In the case of the studio cats: only ~1/2 of 1 % of the members were typically eligible to vote on the national master scale agreements (the criteria having been a floor $ amount of income made in the studio).
Most of us road rats would NEVER have joined absent the coercion. They couldn’t really do anything FOR us, but sure could fuck WITH us — in Locals’ jurisdictions large and small across the nation.
Yeah, I’m sure there was/is a progressive local here & there you can point to. Interestingly, the Vegas local — the epicenter of entertainment – ain’t one of ‘em. Most of the dudes outside the major casino shows are playin’ non-union gigs — even guys with cards.
IMO, the fallacy of “free trade” was that along with exporting jobs, we would also “export” “social justice,” eg, child labor laws, workplace conditions, all the benefits that U.S. labor fought for and achieved.
I think Dems have to remind voters that markets only “work” with a “level playing field.” An “unintended consequence” of “free trade” has been the “export” of robber barron techniques backed by a concentration of captial, and technology that these countries (our suppliers) were completely unprepared for, politically, financially (currency exchange rates, credit)socially, and legally.
I think it’s important to frame the argument in terms like this so as to avoid the false charge that we just can’t compete.
me to me @ #171
Shorter:
If high wages are the problem, vote republican.
If high wages are the answer, vote democratic.
*ilson46201 165
The dirty little secret of the American Revolution is that the British offered black slaves in the colonies their freedom if they could make it to British lines and support the Crown. Ten of thousands of black slaves took them up on it. The American ‘Founding Fathers’ never made such an offer to black slaves until Lincoln did in the 1860’s, also by the way, for strategic politcal and military considerations.
CNN update:
*Carried the info about Cheney’s pudgy knuckled scrawling in the margins attacking Joe Wilson.
*Ran with the newer Newsweek poll saying that a majority of Americans think the spying has gone too far.
It is starting to look like the folks involved in Plame-gate are the frogs in the slowly boiling water.
-GSD
Diogenes,
Welcome to FDL ! – a year ago I thought progressives and labor were a poor gal’s pipe dream – not no ‘mo. have been so heartened to see Labor’s role in the recent immigration rallies and their presence in the blogs
Proud to be fourth generation labor and instrumental in forming a union long ago in a galaxy far, far, away –
Thanks so much for a great post ! Come back and see us anytime
cleter @ 167
Where are you “Digging” ? Virginia ?
new thread. egregious is back, too.
new thread
GSD,
“*Ran with the newer Newsweek poll saying that a majority of Americans think the spying has gone too far.”
NBC Nighty News reported that also tonight, lead story. Last night it was the WashPo poll.
Gyro Gear Lo*se
Florida.
172, Cozumel….yeah, sometimes a wee bit of humor helps defuse what might otherwise mushroom. And I DID chuckle as I typed it.
Now then, Mr. Diogenes, 164: I hope the “powers that be” have you come back. You talk of labelling…I sorta agree but disagree. I think some unfair labelling happened, but also some accurate labelling as well. Getting organized labor back IN THE GAME is, in my opinion, a HUGE issue. And I think there are MANY sub issues invloved, which need to be hashed out. You and I will agree on alot, but disagree on a few things…with discussion, hopefully will come SOLUTIONS to getting organized labor back within the Democratic fold.
Hope to read more articles by you, and more discussion to ensue.
Ghostman
Damn Jane and FDL for forcing me to a right-winger on a post.
I am always flabberghasted when I see people writing about how unprincipled and weak the Democrats are. LBJ knew what he was getting the Democrats into when he signed civil rights legislation. Since then, Democrats have frequently lost elections because of their commitment to minority rights, even to the present. As a person of color who has experienced racism firsthand, I give the Democrats a lot of credit for this.
In terms of Democrats–and Clintonistas–not being brave on economic issues, they lost the 1994 elections in large part due to their voting for the Clinton Budget bill. One can criticize Clinton for not doing enough, but the income on the bottom went up. African American and Hispanic income and net worth increased more than it ever had because Democrats were willing to put their jobs on the line for something they believed in. These are reasons why Clinton is viewed more favorably than the pope amongst Hispanics.
Hooking up net activists and union activists is a huge piece of the puzzle, and good on FDL for talking responsibility into their own hands, and making things happen. If we’re going to have a democracy, we’ve got to pitch in.
Here’s a good place to do it. Campaign for America’s Future, But if you do go, stop by Bloggers row and other places where goodies are handed out to attendees. Ask if the keychains, T-shirts, pens, etc. etc., are union made. IF not make a little noise.
And if you catch any of the largely white, largely affluent attendees acting rudely toward the unionized hotel staff, call them out on it, as well. (I saw instances of both of these behaviors at last year’s meetup).
Oilfield guy- Nah. I like you. You’re pretty smart for a dumb-ass guy, but you got some competition here.
I think this may be the same story that *ilson initially mentioned, way back- the grandmother from Cleveland Heights. *ilson? I finally checked out the link, thanks to your flattery. It really is bizarre. Worthy of further googling, perhaps?
Actually, I was off on a tear, trying to figure out what was going on with the Rove aei stuff. aReader says:
May 13th, 2006 at 6:15 pm linked the rove event and I made a .pdf in case it vanished. But, I can’t figure out why it might have vanished.
http://www.aei.org/events/type…..detail.asp
I work with many of those union leaders in DC. While I agree with a lot of what the post says, I think its possible that supporting Bowles was a decision that IAM and other unions came by honestly, even if in hindsight (for them, not Diogenes) it was an error. But I am concerned that there isn’t a process for IAM locals to play in endorsement. THat seems out of the ordinary. Having a process and not having it work properly to listen to local voice, well that seems a touch more ordinary.
As for Kerry, I understand the ramp workers issue, and that wasn’t the only one he faced. But you know that Dean, until he got religion (which I think he legitmately did get – he’s awesome on worker issues) wasn’t beloved of Vermont unions either. But I think that once Gephardt went down it became about strategic cacluation. People judged Edwards as being callow. It was about more than the record. I’m not sure that this was smart. But I thnk that the leaders I work with were trying to do right by their members in this decision. It was a decision that was made with a lot of fear of what the next four years would look like. It was a conservative choice, but not one that I think was born out of clubbiness.
I also wonder how, in the aggregate, Feingold’s record is that different from Kerry’s. I don’t mean this as a shot at Feingold, just an expression of my own ignorance. Voting records look similar on the different union scorecards.
benton,
If there’d been a fair and square process for membership participation (and participating doesn’t mean squat if you’re not affecting the decision), and Bowles had won, I’d have stood behind him and the process. The membership was not polled (I don’t recollect a single poll in 2000 or 2004, either!), and the decision to support Bowles had really been made before our state legislative council – we on the legislative committee got our marching orders.
ralphinlex #155
Unions have been having a hard time in the UK too – Margaret Thatcher damaged them severely.
My Father was very active in the Amalgamated Engineering Union and even though he worked overseas he never missed a union meeting when he was home.
We lived in a major coal mining area where unions were very active. As a child I can remember the sound of the mine mine sirens going off when there was an accident in the mines. Many miners used to get killed. Also, a lot of miners turned to Communism and visited Russia. Can’t remember much about that, but know that by doing so
they lost a lot of local support.
Thatcher took the unions on – one of many reasons why she was so loathed by so many.
this is good, good stuff from FDL.
and not at all popular or trendy stuff, either.
but there’s a history here that we ignore at our present peril.
for a glimpse at complementary and historical commentary,
go to “the next hurrah” and read some of poster and commenter “sara”’s writings.
one of which is excerpted in brackets below.
[ Organizing
Earlier in comments, I promised perhaps a theory of organization — and for lots of younger folk, I realize that is something one might wish to skip over — but if you want power, which is the objective of any sort of politics — you have to pay attention.
…]
the weblog world;
human parallel processing.
I don’t expect the membership to be polled by the national union. The cost of tabulating a mail survey of the membership of a big union is enormous. But I expect democratic accountability and think the national ought to work in conjunction with local leaders on the issue of endorsements, its bad when it doesn’t happen.
Heck, if you want to talk about incompetent deafness from a union, try the American Postal Workers Union. One of the few things my local did right was work hard for Ciro Rodriguez this past spring. But they must have been high that day. They don’t do much right.
I learned this week that, even though I’m a “career” employee, I have zero rights to a day off.
You read that right. A unionized employee, a career POSTAL employee, no less, who has no rights to a day off.
APWU has NOTHING in its contract guaranteeing all career employees a minimum of one day off. If you’re what they call a “regular” employee (full- or part-time), yeah, you get TWO DAYS off, guaranteed. Management can mandate working one of them…on a rotating basis, based on reverse seniority. But not both days.
But if you’re in my category, “part-time flexible?” Not one day is guaranteed. Theoretically, they could work me from now until doomsday, and I can’t do jack shit about it, except call in sick–which could subject me to disciplinary action, or file for annual leave–if my facility isn’t maxed out on the number of people allowed leave at any given time (which is usually NEVER). The USPS can even be shitty enough to work me 7 days a week, 4 hours a day. And I’m supposed to be grateful for it.
Now for the black humor: What gets USPS management to stop working us like this is when we get brought in, but a senior employee doesn’t get offered a chance to work a seventh day. The position is theirs, and, if the work is there, they have first rights to the hours. If they aren’t offered that right, management will be in violation of the contract, and the senior “regular” employee WILL GET PAID DOUBLE-TIME FOR NOT WORKING! That is part of the contract! USPS management hates paying people who aren’t working. They hate it a lot. Right now, that’s my only hope for getting a day off. Eventually.
I’m cancelling my union membership, after belonging for nearly 11 years. The least any reasonably competent union could do is make sure people get a fair shake on time off. Mine doesn’t.
FUCK ‘EM. They have fucked me over for the last damned time. I almost cancelled my membership last summer when the union said that an off-duty supervisor dressed like a whore could come in and tell me how to do my job–bend over and take it.
FUCK ‘EM. I deserve better from someone I’m PAYING to represent my interests. I deserve better than being sold out in backroom deals between union bosses and management, which happens far too often. I deserve better than a union that does far too little political activity on the local level. There are thousands of us here in San Antonio, and I have yet to see another postal worker at a Dem party meeting.
FUCK ‘EM.
Oh, and folks, sorry, but I’ve worked in three union shops now (represented by ILGWU, IBEW and APWU–California and Texas). Way too many people working in union-shop jobs are Reagan Democrats, at best. These are the people who listen to Rush and Hannity–and agree with everything they say, even about unions! Whatever it takes to win over the Joe-Six-Packers out there, that’s what you’ll need to do with an eerie number of union people, too.
Diogenes @ 164 —Thanks. The split seems like such a momentous event and it’s not always easy for an outsider to follow what’s happening.
There was a discussion in last Sunday’s post on Crashing the Gate about the relative lack of political training, mentoring, and support structures for progressives. Activist union locals seem like they might be a political training ground par excellence. It’s very good to see you here sharing those experiences with us.
I’m surely EPU’d. Thank you again. Hope we see you around.
Peterr says: May 13th, 2006 at 4:51 pm
Thanks for the post about Harvey Milk. It was really interesting and instructive.
Gentleman Jim (#161), one thing you can’t forget about the Vietnam era is that the was was begun under a Democratic administration. The unions who suported the Democratic agenda supported the war for both patriotic and economic reasons.
A lot of Democratic politicians continued to support the aims of the Vietnam war long after the protests began. As you may remember from the 1968 convention, it was a Democratic administration in Chicago supported by the party leadership that was in charge during the demonstrations there. The mainstream party leadership still supported the war in ‘72, which is one of the reasons McGovern had such lackluster party backing.
So yeah, union members supported the war, along with an awful lot of the Democratic party leadership and rank-and-file in ‘68. The Democratic leadership didn’t come out and say that the war was a bad idea or that they’d made a mistake. They didn’t explain why it was a bad idea. And after the Tet Offensive, Johnson pulling out of the race, and dozens of massive riots following the assassination of Dr. King in the spring, a lot of union members jumped ship. Some of them never came back.
Thank yound Diogenes for this good discussion on unions and their impact on politics. The first sign for Kerry in our neighborhood was put up by an union member – a neighorhood that had more Bush signs than Kerry. I think the problem for most of us is that we don’t know the history of the labor movement in this country. Who learns about Mother Jones in our high schools? We are not familiar with the term “living wages.” But what most of us know are the myths of high union wages, union corruption and so on. With more discussions like this, especially personal stories, we can learn and agree on viable issues that need to be addressed by our candidates, as well as learn how to organize for the common good..
Don’t forget the one big union! Industrial Workers of the world have some great stories to tell. These folks practically invented ‘ Just-in-time-engineering’! ( social engineering )
Also the great CNT anarcho-syndicalist union peaked along with the Democratic party vote – so there were synchonicities there once. There could be once again! Thanks Diogenis and thanks J,Rand P @FDL
Diogenes, thanks for the link to the interesting piece onEdwards and for your good post about labor. I worked on Edwards’ presidential campaign and still feel, for those of us who are interested in social justice, that he is still the best candidate out there. I just hope he can figure out how to get the media to focus on those issues.
I see we have NSA infiltrating this blog. First this blog erased my comment before I even finished and posted, it, then they erase my posted comment after I complained about the before posting erasure. Note to all: never compose or edit your msg in the comment box. In that box all your clicks are real time monitored by this blog before being posted. Cut and past your comments to the comment box provided, then hit the “post” button quickly. Nice going Firedoglake….I wish you would practice what you preach
Diogenes, I worked for Piedmont Airlines also, staying with USAirways through its latest iteration as America West. The real story there is what was done to all of the workers at that company. It’s not pretty, is unreported and wouldn’t be believed if reported. The larger question of why quite a few labor union members don’t support progressives, don’t vote in their economic self interest, and love Ronald Reagan confounded me the total of my time there. There are people trying to understand that, i.e “What’s the matter with Kansas?”, etc. I know NAFTA, GATT, Democratic Senator Terry Sanford promising to our legislative committee to support a bill banning permanent strike replacements and then voting against the same, caused a lot of disillusion with the Democratic Party. Interesting post and I wish I knew you.
c1byrd,
People wouldn’t believe the machinations at US Airways. This isn’t the place to go into it, save point out it was part of a larger campaign to gut labor. First, management abused the bankruptcy code to gut USWA in the steel industry. They were the low hanging fruit. Then management brought the campaign to the airlines, beginning with US Airways. ALPA, IAM and AFA are taking mortal hits as the BK campaign roils the industry. Now managment is using BK threats to bring UAW to heel in the auto industry. When managment (aided and abetted by the Administration) is done, traditional unions will be mere tokens.
Stern at SEIU sees this threat, and I think that is why he is big into organizing the service industry.
Your other question is the biggie. Part of the answer is, so long as we vote guns and abortion, to the exclusion of other interests, Reps win. Someone here said it best – if neither party represents your economic interests, a lot of folks will vote their values. The Democrat party must reconnect with working folks, and netroots is the most effective means I can think of for Joe Public to get the leadership’s attention.
I envision a progressive campaign reclaiming the Constitution, which promotes tolerance and respect for individual rights (privacy, due process, etc.)
I’d also push hard for the original intent of Article 1: Section 8, as read in light of the preamble!
“To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes;”
“We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”
Anybody think business has been regulated to promote the general welfare lately?