fitz

Can’t wait for FITZ!

fitz and welcome egregious !

Gotta hand it to ol’ Porter– he sure has a nice looking aide!

If Rove is indicted, will he still have time to work on the fall election? Can he do both?

So what’s up with the Liepold announcement??? Is the Fitzmas??? Enquiring minds need to know now! Jane, help us out!

Dominoes…one by the one…

Couldn’t happen to better people.

yeah, welcome E. “Greg” Ious !

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..20957.html

Y’all seen this?

Huffpo reporting that truthout reporting that Rover got indicted… I think that makes is fourth hand…

Boy, would that make a good day tomorrow.

Let’s see, you order a war on Sunni Iraq, then you destroy the life’s work of the person secretly tracking Iran’s nuclear program. Is everyone at the CIA sure that Cheney’s not an Iranian double agent?

JohnnyB — can’t confirm or disprove, we’ll all just have to wait and see together.

I think the Cheney news is the big story this weekend. Rampant rumors about Rove aside – this proves Cheney at the heart of the Plame matter, in his own handwriting no less (talk about a smoking gun!).

The WH would do anything to distract from this story, including ‘leaking’ bogus info.

“seems to have four iines of defense”

Slowly twisting in the wind.

-GSD

P.S. Egregious, nice to see ya.

The fact that Cheney’s own handwriting is all over a copy of Joe Wilson’s NYT op ed is exceptionally damning.

I like to imagine Big Time reading that op ed for the first time, with that trademark snarl on his slanted mouth.

Go fuck yourself, Dick.

BTW, is that Jodie Foster – what a stunningly beautiful woman.

Hey, what’s up with moderating my comments? Did I say something wrong, or is this a new policy?

from the previous thread: the Brits offered runaway slaves freedom and even organized an “Ethiopian Regiment” …

“JohnnyB — can’t confirm or disprove, we’ll all just have to wait and see together.”

Credible is ALWAYS best. Somebody tell Bush, oh wait, it’s too late ; )

the tightly-wound anti-spam filters sometimes accidently catch innocent comments … don’t take it personally !

Screw it. I’m gonna raise my glass and throw one down anyway. There’s just too much scandal and red meat stuff out there not to celebrate, even if its only in anticpation of what lies ahead.

That’s Jodie Foster?? Crikey.

How do Cheney’s margin notes square with his public statements (e.g., on MTP?) about how he didn’t know who Joe Wilson even was, at the time?

All I can say is, Maahhaahh!
Didn’t get the pic the the blue dress moment.

Have a look at Slantmouth’s writing:

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.c…..ney-notes/

I thought that picture was Anna Nicole Smith.

Bobby G
Ya think the veep wuz lying?

ROVE INDICTED:

Thanks Wilson.

I figured I had been bad…

*ilson46201 #17
Well, that’s the least the Brits could do, having introduced slavery to the Colonies in the first place. Dirty slave-owning monarchists.

Bobby G
Ya think the veep wuz lying?

You can always tell when he’s lying– whenever he’s talking out the side of his mouth.

2) I had no reason to lie, 2) everybody else is lying,

yeah, he’s rattled

Riesz Fischer
or the front

My God.

That news paper piece is the Blue Dress. That is ground zero of the “plot to against Joe Wilson”.

No wonder Bush and his speaking and conniving Asshole want to get control of the newscycle on Monday…..

Is Mr. Potatohead going to be all over this?

-GSD

Michael Hayden says that the voices tell him that Valarie Flame was not covert

DJ DrZ says:
May 13th, 2006 at 7:16 pm

Hey, what’s up with moderating my comments? Did I say something wrong, or is this a new policy?

I’ve noticed that during the week, when I log in to FDL from my office, I don’t get the message, that this submission is waiting for moderation. When I log in from home on the weekend, as the same user I log in during the week, I get the moderation message. Likely there is filtering at work, for username/IP address, I don’t take offense, and trust that my comments, will be posted if they are reasonably lucid and contribute, or at least aren’t taken as detraction.

(yes I do blog during the day, and from work, but then, I’m an admin/webmaster for a few sites, and high levels of web activity are a big part of my job)

Cathy,

That picture is J. Edgar Hoover.

-GSD

You ladies RAWK! Wade through all that legal mumbo jumbo and splain it four easy pieces. Wish I could meet you out in Lost Wages, but I’l be flying out of there on the 7th. Tsk, tsk.

That is such an appropriate picture.

Do all these recent revelations explain Cheney’s sleeping during important events? Or just a general disdain for having to listen to people?

WAG: So, they assess the damage on Monday morning, then decide: should the Prez’ Monday nite speech deal with immigration/border troops or with the VP’s decision to resign for health reasons? Sooner or later, the latter has to occur; it’s just timing. They may have waited too late. Just WAGGING.

HOW MUCH nsa whitehouse WATCHING OF THE WATCHERS HAS GONE ON HERE?

might CHENEY HAVE USED NSA TO WATCH FITZ–THE BUREAU–OTHER PLACES–TO SEE WHERE (where where?!) THIS INVESTIGATION WAS HEADED?

THE WHOLE WORLD WONDERS.

any way to contact a rep. of the AEI tonight, regarding rove’s speech?

Would anyone think a trip to Niger was a “junket” arranged by a loving wife??

– of course, Lynne may have wished to send DeadEye to some unfortunate destinations, so maybe that’s Dick’s only frame of reference.

Who’s the lady in the blue dress, Jane?

I know, that picture is Katherine Harris after she dyed her hair blond.

I’m suddenly very much in favor of blue dresses.

That gurl in the picher shure has purty eyes.

My latest theory is that Leopold doesn’t have “sources.” He reads FDL, tnh … and steals takes without attribution, the conclusions Jane, Christy, emptywheel, Jeff, Polly USA, PLuk, Tom McGuire and other plameologists generate. He then grafts these conclusions onto “events” (emptywheel’s word), such as Fitzgerald coming to Luskin’s office. The “events” are as close as he comes to adding anything unique or original.
This is why no one else is publishing Leopold’s “sources.” Jason has no “source.” He is just printing completely without attribution, the conclusions he stole from Jane’s, Christy’s, emptywheel’s,….labor.

On the copy of Wilson’t letter that Cheney wrote on, notice that this line has been deleted from his copy, towards the bottom of the first column:

story so they could provide a response to the vice president’s office.

Glad you’re back, egregious. Looks like it’s gonna be a fun week.

scarecrow: …should the Prez’ Monday nite speech deal with immigration/border troops or with the VP’s decision to resign for health reasons?

More likely it would be Slantmouth explaining why Chimpy resigned for health reasons. Chimpy’s just a puppet– Slantmouth’s running the show.

Oilfieldguy –

You mean to say that your schedule is inflexible? tsk, tsk.

*ilson46201 …The earlist one of my people got here was 1628. He bought land from the Byrd land grant on the “Curles of the James River”. I got into the Sons of the American Revolution on an ancestor that fought at the Battle of Cowpens. Another ancestor married the widow and took in 6 kids of John Marshall who was killed in the last battle of the revolution at Blue Licks Ky. fighting with Daniel Boone.

Springbored at 40:
I’ve wondered about this, too. However, Fitz has been prosecuting terrorists and other criminals for a while, and he knows what this government is capable of concerning wiretaps, etc. I’m sure he took as many precautions as possible. Also, if the Bush-Cheney crowd had found out anything, they’re too stupid to keep it quiet.

Hang on Karl, just a few more days.

Phun with Photoshop…

http://thoughts-from-a-flyover-state.blogspot.com/

those notes from cheney are damnimg, how does he keep from being indicted with evidence like that?

in addition, I hear the right wing talk circuit trahsing cheney alot where they used to defend everything he did

he’s gonna be a sacrifice somehow

cleter 29

Neither side in the Revolution cared about slavery for altrusitc motives.

“The last temptation is the greatest treason: to do the right deed for the wrong reason.”

Even Lincoln ‘freed’ the slaves for the wrong reason. Intially, slaves were only free in parts of the South not occupied by Union troops. In those parts of the South the Union controlled, slaves were Not free. Pretty ironic, Aye?

OT – WaPoo has an interesting article about Mary McCarthy. Check it out. Goss was incompentent.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..01311.html

It’s Jodie Foster…

http://www.tcp.com/~mary/foster.pics2.html

GSD #36:

I managed to save my keyboard this time, but at the cost of a two-minute cough-a-thon.

Congratulations, you have today’s Spew Award locked up tighter than Rover’s cell.

cathy says:
May 13th, 2006 at 7:30 pm

I know, that picture is Katherine Harris after she dyed her hair blond.
_____

Cathy, I’ve obtained a pic of Katherine Harris’s tattoos:

http://www.bgladd.com/Katherine_Harris_tattoos.jpg

For those interested in more eye candy from someone who can really act, Jodie Foster.

hellooooo egregious !!

WAG: The Monday “immigration policy” speech is a placeholder; there are several speeches in the works in the West Wing this weekend:
1. A border security speech
2. A “bye Rover, here’s your pardon” speech
3. A “bye Dick, here’s your new Veep, Condi” speech
4. A “pissed-off, martial law, shut down the fucking internet” speech.
5. An all of the above speech.

Who knows what evil lurks in the mind of Chimp?

ck

Not for me, but for my son. My daughter is getting married out there on the sixth, she lives in Lost Wages. Her fiance is a sheet metal worker (Union, YES) My son can only take one week off, so we leave on the seventh.

Otherwise, I would hang and chill and meet and greet. I’m not such a bad sort.

OT, but funny and useful — LuntzSpeak! (via the RudePundit)

http://www.luntzspeak.com/

Marky #42 – Here is the Karl Rove Event on the AEI website.

There’s a phone number for more information at the bottom of the page:

A Policy Address by Karl Rove

http://www.aei.org/events/type…..detail.asp

frank rich:

http://blog.myspace.com/index……=120758193

Ok, someone help me with the timeline. It seems now pretty clear that Cheney knew (and did not forget) that at the time of the Wilson op-ed he knew that Valerie Plame worked at the CIA and that she might have been involved in sending Wilson.

So, doesnt that mean Cheney is now facing indictment on at least lying to investigators (even if he was not under oath)? And perjury if he was put under oath by Fitz? And if he didn’t lie about this, then surely he by admitting this cooks Libby’s goose.

What am I missing? Jane, a little help please with the timeline.

Thanks.

Gentleman Jim: Even Lincoln ‘freed’ the slaves for the wrong reason.

Yeah, and the Civil War wasn’t really about slavery, right?

By the way, who was wearing the blue dress? Libby or the bear?

Ditto Marg in 49.

John Casper 47
I have suspected the very same thing.

And I’ve stood on every one of those spots. Sorry, but it gets my hair up when people lecture me on American History.

*ilson and all interested,
Don’t put the Brits on a petistal,the’ve as self serving as anyone else.Patrons of piracy against the Spanish(Sir Walter Reighly anyone),then persicutions in’their’ colinies all over the world,Africa,India,Aisa(opium wars,boxer rebellian).Not trying to dog on them,but History is over,it can’t be changed.Know history,but we operate in today.Why dig up the founding fathers to smack them around about their slaves?Ever see some of Lincon’s quotes about slavery?I’d like to change our threatment of the native north american population,but Bill and Ted haven’t stopped in with the phone booth yet.We’ve got work to do today.Focus.

BobbyG 60-
Good one.

The following lines are the ones that Cheney felt were so important that he underlined the words on his news copy of the Wilson story:

I have little choice but to conclude that some of the intelligence related to Iraq’s nuclear weapons program was twisted to exaggerate the Iraqi threat.

I was told that it referred to a memorandum of agreement that documented the sale of uranium yellowcake

While the C.I.A. paid my expenses (my time was offered pro bono)

the ambassador told me that she knew about the allegations of uranium sales to Iraq — and that she felt she had already debunked them in her reports to Washington

It did not take long to conclude that it was highly doubtful that any such transaction had ever taken place.

it would be exceedingly difficult for Niger to transfer uranium to Iraq

there’s simply too much oversight over too small an industry for a sale to have transpired.

As for the actual memorandum, I never saw it. But news accounts have pointed out

Though I did not file a written report

and a specific answer from the agency to the office of the vice president (this may have been delivered orally). While I have not seen any of these reports

Those are the facts surrounding my efforts. The vice president’s office asked a serious question. I was asked to help formulate the answer. I did so, and I have every confidence that the answer I provided was circulated to the appropriate officials within our government.

Mash #68: I’m not a lawyer, but it seems to me that would be the least of the charges Cheney should be looking at – maybe one of the lawyers here knows – if he was giving marching orders, wouldn’t Cheney be guilty of heading up a conspiracy?

Gyro Gear Lo*se
I hear that.

GSD 37
That’s J. Edna Hoover!

Well Cheneys gone and done it now. He Fucked himself!

In his speech:

Bush could reveal a terrible plot against the American people by a mean and nasty Al Qaeda cell that was foiled thanks to the “Heckuva job” done by Elmer Pudd(General Hyden) and the magical spy programs that have been chewing up our private correspondence…

He could also claim that there are traitors in the media, or in high levels of the government that were aiding and abetting the terrorists too…

Ratchet up the fear and spread the blame and guilt and suspicion….

Get ready for one helluva week. Bin Laden will show up, maybe Zarqawi….

-GSD

RE, Slavery and the Civil War.

No matter what Lincoln said, the abolitionists KNEW the war was to free the slaves.

And it was John Brown’s raid on Harper’s Ferry that brought the war on. More precisely, it was his martyrdom, and the letters he wrote prior to execution. Emerson said “If Brown is hung, the gallows will become as holy as the cross.”

If anything comes up about Bin Laden (I doubt it will), it’ll be that he’s already dead. Jr. could never haul in an old family friend.

Thanks cleter, I just came to it about fifteen minutes ago. emptywheel also uses the word “extrapolates.” Hard to know where he came up with the target letter, thing. I may have stated it a little too narrowly, he may have some limited sources, sometimes.

Jane, typo: All of these are looking pretty anemic right now.
Should be: All of these are looking pretty bat-shit crazy right now.

wrt Rove being indicted, comment at TalkLeft (via comment at dailykos):

“Just got off the phone with NY Daily News Nat’l Desk that says that THEY’RE aware of the story and are trying to verify.”

http://talkleft.com/new_archiv…..l#comments

yes yes, but what about the bears? Colbert’s the only one covering the bear angle :)

everhopeful #77: it clearly was a conspiracy. I wonder if Fitz would pursue conspiracy (apparently very hard to convict on). If he pursues conspiracy, does he now go back and add another count to the Libby indictment? How unusual is it to go back and add more count to an indictment? Any lawyers out there? bears? anyone?

Oh. My. God. It just gets better and better.

My only question: Why hasn’t Bush issued pre-emptive pardons to all concerned so that he can go on about his evil ways?

Am I missing something?

I hope that Rove is about to be indicted. Is anyone else amazed that Fitgerald hasn’t already found a horse head in his bed?

Also, I am profoundly thankful that there are still honest,brave people in our government who are willing to pursue the sins of these criminals. Don’t you guys think it’s amazing that they’ve been allowed to continue?

Sophist @36~
I wrote a comment last Sunday from home that had the message “awaiting moderation”. It was a report from the Illinois townhall meeting with Schakowsky and Murtha. It never did get published. Last night, I had another “awaiting moderation” comment that did get published after a really long time. I can’t figure out what triggers the moderator’s interest, even though Christy spoke of it earlier. (thanks, Christy) It does seem to be happening more frequently of late. (just sayin’)

avenging_angel 88 — hate to get sidetracked on pardon talk but you have to wonder, don’t you?

Hey,

Wasn’t some FDL’er predicting the 15th of May a while back?

-GSD

John Casper,

“My latest theory is that Leopold doesn’t have “sources.â€

I’m surprised TalkLeft ran with it seemingly as fact, or in the alternative, credible. Credibility is like virginity, once you lose it, it’s gone.

Pressure is mounting and the stakes are getting higher. I’m holding my breath, wondering what they’ll do to crush this investigation. They’ve shown so little restraint.

Michael Hayden
Dr. Evil

…Now tell me there is no resemblence!

GSD-
Did we take bets on when Rove was indicted? I thought we only did it on when Bush went below 30 in the polls. I must have missed the Rove one.

Corey 80

Well Cheneys gone and done it now. He Fucked himself!

EWE — that is not a pretty vision! I’ll take Divine rutting with himself in the dirt in Female Trouble over Dickeye any day…

And really, one of the best lines from that movie goes out from moi to Jane and Christy and Pach and all the commenters here everyday:

“Ever since I met you, my life’s been like a vacation!”

Here it is people. It looks like Truthout broke it first

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/051306W.shtml

fwiw: I could be a member of the Sons of the American Revolution from both sides of my family. American history (like any history) is fascinating and rich. Many of the stories trumpeted in high school had dark sides untold. Many progressive triumphs have been suppressed. The battles continue to this day…

Wow – look at tomorrow’s news:

tryggth 57 has WaPo link saying Mary McCarthy may have been fired for leaking that the Gosslins at CIA had lied to Congress about the rendition/torture scandal — a lot of that Cheney’s program.

Several outlets are picking up the story about Cheney’s notes re Wilson.

NYT has Cheney responsible for pushing the NSA outside the law.

And the NYT allows Rich to call the WH the place to look for treason?

And we still don’t know what happens to Rove?

Wow! The Bush Administration is in melt down.

GSD — I think just about everything got predicted on the prediction thread the other night, but Pach, Christy and I have disqualified ourselves from the pool and haven’t made any.

Would Bush pardon Rove and Libby? My guess is that he would want to prevent them from having a trial so as to not further damage his administration. But he can’t do this before the November elections because it would give Dems more ammo. So it will probably have to be after that.

What can the Dems do if they win the House and/or Senate in terms of getting to the bottom of this whole affair? Can they get Fitzerald to testify even though Rove/Libby have been pardoned? Seems there could be a legal way to prevent that from happening.

I still say that Bush is not going to issue any pardons. Unless he has severe pressure. He really doesn’t give a f*** for anyone else. I said it better, last time I said it.

I’ve wondered if the Monday Speech isn’t going to be a “Heckuva Job, Turdblossm” moment — 9/11, 9/11, terra, terra, terra, we’ve got a war to fight, partisan politics, blah, blah, blah — followed by a pardon.

I don’t think it will happen, but Bush is anything but a rational actor these days.

Posted 5 minutes ago by CNN:

The article, and the fact that it contained certain criticisms of the administration, including criticism regarding issues dealt with by the Office of the Vice President, serve both to explain the context of, and provide the motive for, many of the defendant’s statements and actions at issue in this case,” Fitzgerald’s filing said.

“The annotated version of the article reflects the contemporaneous reaction of the Vice President to Mr. Wilson’s Op Ed article, and thus is relevant to establishing some of the facts that were viewed as important by the defendant’s immediate superior, including whether Mr. Wilson’s wife had sent him on a junket.”

http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/05/13/cia.leak/

OT Oilfield guy- if you’re still around, I left you a comment on previous thread. EPU’d by Porter Gross.

Well, in chess, the ultimate goal is to protect the king…

Mary
From the prior threads. I am very flattered to know tha tanything I have say might influence your decision process,

Baranra B –Way to go girl. Some serious legal research there (yes, I used to be an Iran Contra junkie)

For e verybody re: the Jason Leoplod scoop{

If Fitz really did serve an indictment on Luskin or Rove on Friday IT”S NOT SEALED!!!

A sealed indictment is NOT REVEALED to the person who has been indicted. That’s the whole point.

Re the 15 hourd thing:

That does not sound likely. 15 hurs is not an unusual workday for our hero, but it is a VERY unusual workday for an adverserial meeting.

In 20 plus years as a lawyer, I have NEVER spent 15 solid hours closeted with my oppposition hammering ot (or not) a deal.

That rings false for me.

For anyone in need of comedic relief, unintentionally from Lil’ Debbie Howell:
“The Right Way to Admit a Mistake”

If Rove is pardoned can he get his security clearance back?

Jane, Cathy,

I just seem to recall someone harping for a few weeks about the 15th.

Maybe I am just so damned pie-eyed I can’t tell fact from friction anymore.

But it is all building up to something….

Monday will be very interesting indeed.

-GSD

I’ve said this before, way back when, and I have no evidence to back it up, just a WAG. But, I still *think* that Woodward had a tete-a-tete with Goss re: Plame.

L

Doesn’t really matter what Bush says anymore. Nobody believes him.

Monday is the Saturday Night Massacre. Bush fires Fitz, doles out pardons, ends the whole shebang. The last remnants of the Old Republic have been swept away! Fear will keep the systems in line!

OT — (apologies)

It occurs to me, that if the current front guys in the white house go down, there will still be a whole raft of rats that may get away. The whole PNAC gang should be investigated. All of the dirty tricks that took place from 9/11 to the war in Iraq are going to be scape-goated onto Bush and Cheney. As well deserved as that may be, they are not solely responsible.

There are a lot of other people who were involved, planning, colluding and cheering them on, they all need to be dragged into the light.

I pray it happens soon. I worry that the Bush admin is in fact being scapegoated for not competently implementing all those feverish delusions of the PNAC future. I suspect they will be dropped, tainted and spent, to make way for the next round of pawns.
All those who were instrumental in feeding Bush and Dick their grand plans are now carefully but rapidly backpedalling, and throwing as much blame at Bush and Cheney as possible. I hope they get caught in the wake when the current admin implodes. I’d settle for one or two of them growing a conscience and showing some sort of public remorse.

Pardon the prose, the current political escatology (pun applicable, but not intended) has me up nights worried for my children’s future.

DMM 47

The point of knowing history is not to drag up the past to highlite hypocrisies but to learn to recognize the same old tired tricks in todays current events. There are plenty of people still doing the right things for self serving purposes, not for the greater good. It Looks good, but it will be short lived if the wind shifts again. You know like Dino Demos. You think they are on your side but they would turn on you in a NY minute.

My ememy’s enemy is Not my friend, I learned that in grade school. Alot of the Johnny come latelys to anti-Bushism will soon be preaching about how we should all support President McCain and his ’secret’ effort to end the war in Iraq.

As far as I can see, alot of the turning on Bush is a mile wide and an inch deep. History shows me that. The public loves to be on the winning side, regardless of what that might turn out to be.

LHP, what you say makes a lot of sense, but this case has been very unusual wrt Rove already.
Rove is quite the talker.. could he have tried to weasel out in private for many hours?

If anyone’s in the mood for a good laugh, go read the freeper thread on this. They’re still struggling with that “how can someone’s identity be revealed if they’re not named” thing.

ok, so help me out here – Why would you put marching orders in the form of questions? Wouldnt you put bullet points or something similar? I agree it makes no sense to be asking these questions when you’ve had a “work up” on Wilson for months (at least since the Kristof column in March), but there’s something odd about it.

VG,

“I still say that Bush is not going to issue any pardons. Unless he has severe pressure. He really doesn’t give a f*** for anyone else. I said it better, last time I said it.”

I don’t think he will either. He doesn’t care about Iraq short term, or the polls. It’s how he’ll go down in history 20 or so years from now, his legacy. His “higher calling”.

scarecrow (100) – Explains that timely Medal of Honor award for both Goss and Cheney, doesn’t it?

Question for whomever knows the answer — I missed this somewhere along the way, too tired to look. Where’d this newspaper come from with Deadeye’s handwriting? Libby?

the ultimate goal is to protect the king…

I can understand Libby and Rove protecting Bush and so he wouldn’t necessarily pardon them because it would make him look bad. But the trial itself would bring out a lot of things I’m sure that Bush wouldn’t want out in the open, regardless of Libby and Rove pleading the fiz-if. So a trial is probably bad.

After Cheney, I guess Fitz will start with the OSP boys. hehe

nice catch ccmask
Here’s WaPo’s take:
“Cheney Penned Note About Plame, Filing Shows”

I know, way back when in the plamiological world Christy or Jane had something to say about whether Cheney could be indited. Can any one remember the answer to this question? Or suggest a search I can try?

fwiw, I don’t think there is anything to the Rove indictment story.

If Fitz did spend Friday afternoon at Patton Boggs, it would have been plea deal and/or target letter related. He is way to professional to deliver an indictment to the target without making it public. I think it will be Wednesday for the true bill and Thursday for the presser.

Springbored, 107:”Well, in chess, the ultimate goal is to protect the king…”

I thought the ultimate goal in chess was to defeat the opposing king. Am I mistaken?

JWR,

““how can someone’s identity be revealed if they’re not named—

LOL! Answer: Give me someones phone number and I’ll have their name in less than 30 seconds ; )

Riesz Fischer: A mathematician?

(I just posted this at thinkprogress, but it ain’t too bloggy over there. Thoughts, anyone? Buhler?)

Could somebody please tell me how and where in the hell Fitzgerald got a hold of this freakin’ thing? Did someone cough it up? Did they go through Cheney’s trash? Did Cheney hand it over? I mean, how did it escape getting stuffed in the shredder–or getting stuffed down Libby’s throat (â€Swallow it you fool! Swallow it!! He’s in the next room!!â€) Is the VP required to archive his marginalia? WTF.

GSD-
Jane did a thread a while ago that I wasn’t around to participate in that was a contest for Rove’s indictment date and charges. So that must be what your thinking of. I forgot about that one.

OT:

I just want to let everyone know in here how fantastic the Roots Project volunteers are who have been helping add everyone to their respective groups. We had a serious flood of people yesterday, heading into the weekend.

RevDeb, Jay Ackroyd, siun, RagingGurl, Andrea Yoekel, Kathryn, cberman and others have put in hours this weekend going through hundreds of emails and double checking to be sure no one is missed, using a google infrastructure that is very klunky when you start dealing with larger numbers of people.

I can’t say enough about them. If you see them in the comments, please thank them.

Nobody, are you a m’tician? I am.

Yeah… And I think I’ll change my handle to “Cauchy Schwartz.”

That bugs the hell out of me– that all of Fitzgerald’s exhaustive, hard work could be undone with a simple stroke of the Chimpenfuhrer’s crayon… er, um, I mean pen.

Would pardons help or hurt Bush in the long run?

Bush and Cheney are on the threshold of institutional collapse……

I go back to Jack Murtha as being a huge turning point…..that of the canary in the coalmine for the military….

Despite the fact that the story has moved on…just a few weeks ago there were half a dozen generals that were firing flares into the night…

Read this article on the continued deployment of PTSD affected troops:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireS…..SFeeds0312

Bush and Cheney will not be able to push much further…..

-GSD

so maybe all the nodding off that HAIR-TRIGGER DICKEY has been doing on the job lately is related to the serious SEDATION that has been required to keep his little ticker from IMPLODING (again) because he knows the end for him is near . . .

ding dong the witch is dead(eye)!!!

mr. cheney go fuck yourself.

ALLAH is just alright with me!

chisholm- I had the same question myself. Anyone?

Well spoken,Jim.I fully agree.

avenging angel–which is worse, getting caught, or getting away with it–but everyone knows you did it? The only golfing buddy Cheney would have would be….OJ.

#115

“The more you tighten your grip, Tark, the more star systems will slip through your fingers.”

I think that more and more whistleblowers will come out of the woodwork if Bush goes the pardon route.

That’s my hope, anyway…

Billmon’s making sense, as usual.

These were marching orders, not a question.

Please keep repeating this over and over ad nauseum. People (including MSM reporters who might happen by the blog) who haven’t followed the details might otherwise mistake the scribblings for actual questions.

Sophist 36 — sometimes something triggers the filter and I cannot for the life of me figure out what it is. It happens to Pow Wow and I have looked and looked and tried to find out why and I can’t. Also happened to Me3 but somehow he came out of it.

To everyone — it’s not perfect. But considering the non-stop complaining we got when we had to limit HaloScan to 3 lines after a troll attack it’s significantly better than it was and we would appreciate a little patience. We have to write, read, research, handle technical stuff, and answer emails in addition to monitoring the comments. When we can hire a full time person to do nothing but handle the site stuff we’ll let you know, nobody would be happier than us.

Of course if everyone wants to go to comment registration and 24 hour waiting periods like Kos there would be no problem at all. That would completely destroy the cool people who stop by and make interesting comments on the spur of the moment, and certainly not be my preference, but if that’s what everyone wants let me know.

I believe a former VP was once indicted: Aaron Burr.

chisolm #141

D’OH!

You’re so right!

Re: “Answer: Give me someones phone number and I’ll have their name in less than 30 seconds ; )”

http://www.anywho.com/rl.html

Chisholm: I’m gonna bet he got it from Rove.

Pach 133 — thanks so much. Your post the other day really wowed everyone. The Roots project has really taken off thanks to you and all the folks you mentioned.

ewww…. local fox news (hey, I was watchin’ the race and it just came on) and they are showing two demonstrations in the ‘burbs of Chitown – the minutemen calling for Durbin to resign and immigrants rights folks standing their ground. The minutemen remind me so much of the more rabid pro-vietnam war folks – screeching women yelling “you are not american” and creepy guys yelling “go home” while the immigrants gathering looked calm and dignified. The you are not american lady claimed her job was taken by an illegal immigrant but honey, I don’t know any boss who would want her on the job. The right is stoking this one up and I am afraid it will get very ugly.

#145,

FDL sucks. (In Homer Simpson voice) BTW, I was being sarcstic.

Pach (133) — I’d love to participate in the Roots Project, but I don’t know if I can do it justice since I’m already working on six different organizations and doing web development for 3 candidates. Do we have a project plan I can look at by email so I can determine whether it aligns with what I have on my plate? Tks for all you’re doing, along with the rest of the FDL’rs assisting.

VG, I knew you were “Kravitzing” around. (That’s a reference to the nosey neighbor, Mrs. Kravitz, to Samantha of “Bewitched.” And I got plenny smarts. I wouldn’t be doing the really dumb stuff I posted on my blog today. For a hoot click on my name and you’ll see.

hey, jane, nice picture of you on this post, but what does that have to do with porter “poker? i didn’t even know her!” goss?

Cozumel @129 – Oh yeah? Well, how about this one:

“IMO, in the long run this information does not bode well for Plame and Wilson.”

My, oh my. Somebody’s in for a rude awakening ;-)

Mash #87- re: conspiracy charges. Christy discussed this in response to questions a good while back. Not being a lawyer, I don’t remember the details. But, the take home message that I got is that indicting someone e.g. Libby for particular crimes does not preclude further indictments on other charges (conspiracy). Not an add-on to the previous indictment, but an additional indictment.

gg– thanks, it clears up one question anyway, possible if not probable.

squinting at the writing of deadeye dick, i have been pondering what can be gleaned from his handwriting itself… any graphologists in the neighborhood?

Regarding Mr. L**p*ld and the 22 indictments, which has been mentioned in multiple threads: I posted a comment about it over at dKos in a Rove indictment thread, and was told by another Kosian that, in fact, it was Larry Johnson who had come up with the 22 indictment figure.

Then I heard from Mr. L himself, also saying that he never reported the 22 indictments, and that the story originated at this website: http://www.radaronline.com/the…../index.php (scroll down to second item, which reports it as simply the buzzing of the the “D.C. rumor mill”).

Seems to me if he had reported it, it wouldn’t be that hard to verify (though I confess I haven’t taken the time to go back and research it), so I’m thinking there’s a good chance he’s not in fact responsible for that particular bit of misinformation, and instead has got his own urban legend being perpetuated about him. I don’t want to slam him for something he didn’t do, and I don’t think anyone else here does either, so I’m passing the info on, just fyi.

I recently got an email from Jason Leopold that made me wonder if he wasn’t part of a J.D. Hatfield style ratfuck, engineered by Karl Rove.

But even if it’s true, it’s a ratfuck that is biting Karl Rove in the ass.

Cheney’s margin comments are talking points for sure. Is this a fly-on-the-wall look at the genesis of how all TP’s are generated in the Bush Crime Family?

From Divine Revelation to the red hot tip of Big Dick’s pen(is) mighter than a sword?

Cauchy-Schwartz

from Wikipedia

I think even Jeralyn is backing off the truthout story. Her latest update has the caveat “… if Jason’s article is true …”.

Cheney’s notes and the WP McCarty story – that’s a lot to come to grips with. Every time you turn a rock over on this admin, you find something nasty.

ccmask–that’d be one hell of a ratfuck move. How the hell would he have gotten it? I think Libby might have tucked it in his pocket after a meeting for insurance.

siun # 155–the minutemen–jesus, don’t even get me started–they might as well just change their name to “the tiny penis brigade”–what a bunch of po’ white crackers taking their impotence and frustration out on those below them in the food chain!! So disturbing. Like something out of frickin Salo.

more recently, Vice-President Spiro Agnew was indicted and pleaded ‘nolo contendere’ (Lord! how soon they forget!)

I think I picked Monday in the poll for Rove indictment. Maybe I’ll be lucky and we will all be winners!

I could scarcely believe it just now when I saw on my Yahoo headlines that AP had picked up the Cheney handwriting on the Wilson op-ed story. I can’t believe the MSM is finally paying attention. Christy pointed out this afternoon how huge this evidence is, but I’m so used to huge stuff being ignored.

Does anyone know enough about Leopold to say whether he’s crazy enough to put this this out if it weren’t true? Cuz if it’s not true, he’s fucked.

Wow, I really do think this is big.

Not for me (us) so much, because we knew the fuckers were guilty years ago, but for the incredulous out there.

The people who are marginally involved with politics are going to realize we were right. They will have a hard time buying any more spin now. And any tm trying to carry water will be dismissed as such.

Yay Fitz! I have so much admiration for this man. He had the goods the whole time, and played it close to the vest in order to serve justice ethically. An inspiration.

DJ DrZ (17) — I think the answer may be in posting from more than one IP. One of the problems with the Haloscan system was that folks could employ an anonymizer, giving them a fresh IP whenever they posted. A troll couldn’t be pinned down and locked out if they were continually posting form a fresh IP. But this system recognizes a user’s most frequent IP address, asks for moderation of posts that originate outside of your most frequent posting address. So if you post from both work and from home, or library or hotspot, moderation may happen — but it’s for the best of the overall commenting experience, given how wretched the scroll trolls were that pestered FDL under Haloscan.

About this comment moderation thing–is it triggered by profanity? I just used the word p-e-n-*-s, and now my scintillating missive has been wait-listed.

Wonder who had the nerve to give Cheney the good news? Did they tell him to his face or by phone?

Don’t think that at 12% he has much chance of raising the big bucks necessary for his defense.

trish,

There is a question of whether or not Cheney can actually be tried in court. Though Burr was indicted for murdering my favorite founding father in both New Jersey and New York, the was never tried and wasn’t really pursued. Constitutionally, I’d have to defer to someone with a little more knowledge of law to see if Cheney could face trial while in office. If there were an impeachment trial, he would likely get off due to the make up of the Senate. I do not know if he were cleared during impeachment whether he could still face criminal proceedings.

Just a thought: I wonder if we will find out now who was on Cheney’s Energy Task Force now??

we’ll try it with some crazy ninja verbal camo–

ccmask–that’d be one hell of a ratf*ck move. How the hell would he have gotten it? I think Libby might have tucked it in his pocket after a meeting, just as a little insurance.

siun # 155–the minutemen–jesus, don’t even get me started–they might as well just change their name to “the tiny pen*s brigadeâ€â€“what a bunch of po’ white crackahs taking their impotence and frustration out on those below them in the food chain!! So disturbing. Like something out of frickin Salo.

chisholm, I’m betting Irving kept it for insurance.

Riesz-Fischer

Math geek stuff over.

Riesz-Fischer

Math geek stuff over.

Jumpin’suit 126

Defeat the opposing king, eh? Natch. But see, you’re describing politics during the campaign season.

But when Bush is verging on loosing the bishops, his queen can’t stay awake and his castle covered with all the pawns blocked….the whitehouse has just gotta try to run out the clock..and protect the king as best they know how.

DJ DrZ says:
May 13th, 2006 at 7:13 pm Boy, would that make a good day tomorrow.

Bestest Mother’s Day ever.

Bushco is about to have their Ray Nagin moment:

“Someone get down here and fix this goddamn mess”

Yahoo has an opinion piece up on the phone spying:

“Trust us isn’t good enough”

http://news.yahoo.com/s/usatod…..goodenough

-GSD

gg 169, why don’t we ask Ann Coulter, noted constitutional lawyer, before she gets charged with voter fraud.

*ilson,
My memory of the Agnew situation was that he resigned prior to being indited as part of a deal so he was not actually a sitting VP when he was indited. Dead Eye’s Dick won’t give up so easily. Just wonderin’

Valley Girl #157: thanks. I wasn’t sure about the logistics. FDL is my cia leak HQ ;)

fdl folks, thanks for the love, much appreciated. Yes am on meds and see a doctor. I am bipolar, adhd, and a family scapegoat. With recent family events I was too close to the edge. I have always taken on too much responsibility, for family and for the nation. I am a canary in the mine. Am psychic. Our nation is sliding into deep trouble. Am duty bound to help mitigate what is coming our way.

Re ad policy: it was just a suggestion. It’s not my blog. I have consistently defended JH and RH against people who criticize them, including one particularly memorable night battling constant and other trolls. I make contributions to fdl and have urged others to do so.

The good news: married daughter happy. Other daugher w bipolar and adhd who barely made it thru high school about to graduate magna from an ivy. Son had letter to the editor printed in the NYT.

Good question where the incriminating article came from (sorry for the poor sentence structure). I think it had to be Libby. That’s the person to which Cheney would have given his “to do” list. I don’t where Rove would have gotten it, except through some twisted chain of custody. Maybe Scooter kept it as back up evidence to make sure his back was covered. He is the one with the reported scrap book after all.

I’m starting to do my stretches. I think I’m committed to doing cartwheels down the hall when Rove gets indicted! I’m sure that won’t be a pretty sight!

egregious 185 — good to see you, and appreciate your suggestions. You’re a valuable member of this community and have supported it in every way possible, both Christy and I think the world of you.

So Cheney’s handwriting, if not his fingerprints as well, are now all over the Plame outing story. As others have wondered, I am amazed that this personally annotated copy survived. One guess is that an OVP secretary duly gathered up the miscellaneous papers off Cheney’s desk after the meeting and filed them away, to be forgotten by those present. Sometime later, when the FBI came calling, he/she found the file folder. Or maybe the copy was found next to a dumpster near the White House.

Something to watch for on the talking heads programs tomorrow: the annotated and underlined copy of Wilson’s article makes for a superb TV visual. If no one shows this copy tomorrow, then it’s a worse media coverup than what was done to Colbert’s performance two weeks ago.

Al Gore is on SNL now

The Bush administration sure needs to find something shiny, and quick. Ya better duck, Iran.

This is all starting to sound like the best kind of news we’ve had in a while.
I wonder what effect it will have on Bushco “policy†and “preemptive strikes†if Cheney is busy with a blue dress moment. I hope it has the effect to the tune of “lame duck.â€

Geez, jinny @ 168, they told him by phone…they didn’t want to get shot in the face!

Welcome back egregious.

In two and a half years, writers are going to begin the long autopsy of the GW Clusterfuck administraion. It is full of fertile ground to plow.

I am very interested in tracing the decline in Clusterfuck’s credibility. It was never ONE thing that did him in- although many will try to search for one thing- it was a slow dripping experience- and he lost support one american at a time.

At the time many of the significant events were happening, I was shocked that they didn’t take him down “surely this one will do it” I thought, but it never did, it took the weight of all of them tugging relentlessly on the public’s confidence- but slowly it has happened. He is now a plugged toilet.

The link to Frank Rich @ 67 is priceless….My monitor caught on fire.

Getting back to that pundit that quoted P. Henry it was Craig Crawford…And the orginal point was that he’s talkin’ about spilling blood to defend the constitution.

Cleter….Spanish at St. Augustine ?

Did Libby go to Andover with Bush? Did I read that somewhere?

whoa … anyone see Al Gore open SNL?

wonderful!

Gore just ripped it up with a great into on SNL.

-GSD

egregious #185:

Most heroes never get their picture in the paper. You’re one of ours and hopefully one to your kids, too. Thanks for the big-time post and the good news.

I just saw the night-time black-background Timmeh show — with Chip Reid, Kelly O’Donnell, and David Gregory. I swear; it’s like watching a group of fucking Martians trying to make sense of America having landed in Washington D.C. just last week. These people are of a different species. (Please forgive the Somerbyism.)

Higher power, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.

Jane and/or Christy:

What is the deal with the Leopold story at Truthout.org? Is he correct – has Rove already been indicted? And I’m curious, why haven’t you posted anything about the report as of yet? Do you consider his reporting to be suspect or worse? If so, I’d like to know why. I guess I just don’t get why the premiere Plame-gate blog is totally silent on this story.

i think even jeralyn is backing off the truthout story. her latest update has the caveat “… if jason’s article is true …â€.

i also qualified the news on my blog with a “we’ll believe it when we see it on the national news, but truthout is reporting…”

it could be worse…it could have come from capitol hill blue.

Tears came to my eyes as SNL went to a parallel universe and there was Gore the POTUS.

A great mix of snark and stiletto knife. IMO.

Sorry, I can’t stomach SNL — even with Al Gore.

I echo everyone else here: Welcome back egregious!

ok, something else wonky is happening here with the comment numbers. I am not always seeing things at the same number each time. Twice now in this thread someone has referred to a comment number and I see a different comment at that number and I just answered a comment at #168 which I now see at #174….Is it just me??? Help!

chisholm- judging by the amount of spam that I get (used to get) on my email re: p*ni* enlargement, this is probably one of the top 5 words that any SPAM filter picks up.

Egregious,

We can all feel the coming storm….

Good to see you again.

-GSD

Congrats to your child for the degree too.

Make that #172, not 174

Heh. Gore just referred to baseball commissioner GWB finding the missing steroids…heh.

Can’t wait for tomorrow’s book discussion, loaded for bear. Must also tell you that in spite of a heated conversation with a conservative, I learned that this same conservative is desperately hoping we progressives can save this country from GWB.

Also learned that the red-dyed-in-prebirth-wool father-in-law feels the same way, hopes we are coming to the rescue even if he’d never admit it to my progressive face. (Must be those 900 bucks a month in medication bills for his spouse that finally broke through…)

Get ready, folks. The dam has been leaking and it’s now about to burst. You must be ready with mops and ShopVacs the size of which you’ve never seen to clean up after this flood. Be prepared to talk policy and soon — even before YearlyKos.

‘Niters. May the Fitz be with you.

Also,

After the pre-weekend tank in the stock market, any predictions on Monday?

-GSD

Welcome back egregious.

Without discussing the ‘truth’ of the Truthout story, can an indictment be sealed? And if so, ‘when’ does a sealed indictment have to become public?

Good gosh, Gentleman Jim (117). Now that you bring up McCain. He apparetnly gave a commencement speech at the Rapture learning instutite advertised on Pax tv: Liberty University. Don’t have a link because I saw the headline on cable news. What next? Bob Jones University? Oh yeah, that’s right, he did already.

denise, When Jane, Christy, or Pach release a comment from “moderation,” it gets inserted into the time slot it had, before it got “moderated.” That’s why a lot of people now refer to a comment by the time it was posted, because that won’t change.

egregious, good to see you, and am glad to hear the good news. My family has bipolar and adhd folk also, not to mention dyslexic and autistic, so I have great respect for everyone who struggles with and overcomes this stuff on a daily basis.

Jane, my $.02 regarding the comments.

I don’t mind them at all, infinately better than we used to have.

At some point you guys may want to have a few volunteer mods so you could go for a walk or on a date or something.

GSD — fill the gas tank this weekend. The Lagos oil field “vandalism” attack will probably drive prices up.

I’m betting on lower opening with flat SPY until after the next Fed meeting. Ugh, now must really go to bed.

denise- as far as I have been able to figure, comments that have been snagged by the SPAM filter for whatever reason (awaiting moderation) but then are approved get put into the comments according to the time they were originally posted. So, this is what makes the numbers screwy, sometimes- my theory, anyway.

I saw a guy at work years ago poke a cornered rat in the store room with a broom handle. He was so cocky about have the poor creature at a disadvantge. The second after he said something to this effect and gave the rat another poke, it ran up the broom handle in a flash and bit him on the neck, drawing quite a bit of blood, and then jumped off his shoulder and escaped out of the room to the safety of the great outdoors.

It’s not over yet folks.

Why no, dear Denise, nothing is wrong with the comment numbers. Perhaps you need to lie down, nobody else has noticed a thing…perhaps you need a roofy…

(that was a “let’s freak her out and make her think she’s nuts” plot set-up [see “Rosemary’s Baby])

Yes, I have noticed changing numbers too. I am not even going to hazard a guess.

In terms of Monday’s address you have to think in terms of the professional functioning alcoholic. It is about feeding the demon for one more day at worst. At best it is about feeding the demon for the next year. I think BushCo just wants some breathing room. The alky in chief just wants to be assured of his next binge. That’s all he’ll strive for, ie. just immigration. I suspect Monday will begin with a hard exercise session: to blast away the effects of Sunday’s binge.

good to see you, egregious! glad you are back.

“Rapture Learning Institute”??!!

Yikes.

egregious,

Hiya! I remember that battle with “Constant”. Whatever happened with him/it? Oh well, “it’s” gone, we won ; )

GSD
Well, I predicted Bush freaking out in some sort of crazy, half-assed Saturday Night Massacre. Also, next week he ties Nixon’s JAR.

Gyro Gear Lo*se
18th century plantation north of there. No internet:(

What I don’t understand is that I thought Rove had been “retired” recently to concentrate on the election. Why was he meeting in the south last week getting involved in the immigration thingy….and what is Bush going to announce Monday?

Fitz!!

Welcome back, egregious!

Yes, amen! The family is a soft spot, and because of the familiarity advanage some of them know exactly where the most damage can be done. Thank goodness you are on the mend and are taking care of yourself. And your kids are doing well, too! It’s good to hear from you again. Come back tomorrow, too! :)

Maybe you dopes should stop being so “immoderate”.

;)

About the comment filters.

So it’s not perfect; I am going to be severely hurt if my comment doesn’t make it.. NOT.

I like it if I can contribute, but my life doesn’t depend on it. I like seeing the flow of ideas the way it currently happens.

So, if my comment hits the filter, it’s not a big deal…

Jane, I think it is fine the way it is and I do appreciate all the very hard work you and Christy do to keep us informed.

I lurk often and have so much to think about from the well-written articles and comments that I usually don’t post but am glad if the spirit moves me that I can post without the rig-a-ma-roe and problems of signing up to register and trying to remember passwords.

“I swear; it’s like watching a group of fucking Martians trying to make sense of America having landed in Washington D.C. just last week.”
LMAO

Geez…could Porter Goss have turned it in?

VG 207, whenever I have to register for something online (like a newspaper) I always use my dad’s biographical info. It finally dawned on me why I get so much spam for v*agara, cial*s, and love muscle enhancers, lol. Why low low mortgage rates, I have no idea.

new thread: “FDL Late Nite, Hero”

I just saw some old friends this week and her father, a retired navy man who is usually very Republican, could not stop talking about how “no one seems to know how to run things” in this administration, e.g. the war, the Medicare plan he was trying to enroll in, etc.

I think for lots of former supporters of his its not the big principles that Bush is betraying which is sinking him, its the competence issue. They can’t even figure out WTF he is doing. So maybe there is hope that they will turn to a alternative in November.

I still don’t see why Libby & whoever else may end up charged will plead or flip. ??? These guys know where bodies are buried and there are investigations going on so many fronts (for example, what if Rove could say that the removal of the acting USAtty in Guam was done by the President after Rove told him that Abramoff wanted it?) that they can hurt Bush.

I can’t help but think they are all very confident they will get the pardons (look at the Iran-Contra players) and the question is timing of the pardons – drag things out so that the worst of the revelations don’t come out until after the elections, then pardon right away so it is old news, not much revealed, by 2008. OTOH, Fitzgerald’s tactics seem to be resuling in Libby’s lawyers ‘dragging’ the info from him now – pretty slick.

The only things I can see as disincentives for the whole Bush crew to not just play it out for pardon are a) if the pardons come too soon and there is good conspiracy theory, someone might get left out and holding the bag post-2008 with real incentive to sing bc pardon is not in sight now; or b) if Bush thinks that he might be impeached if he pardoned. There is nothing in the Dem’s guts or Rep’s integrity that should have him too worried on that front – but if 2006 goes heavily Dem – he has to worry a bit more.

Re the NIE discussions 29 et seq from the earlier post, it seems to me that under Walton’s appointment clause ruling, it is very iffy whether or not the Prosecutor COULD make a charge relating to disclosure of the NIE, even if he does think that Libby did not have authority for one or more of the disclosures. The NIE was not his mandate and did not arise out of the investigation of his mandate.

But the discussion is pretty interesting. Prosecutor says – we won’t be alleging a crime was committed when he talked about the NIE on July 8. (p.30) Wells pushes that Gov knows about a prior disclosure (there is certainly an argument that the government could make that there was an earlier conversation with somebody else maybe 10 days earlier)(p.30). Prosecutor says, let’s be clear – there ‘may have been 2 prior disclosures “that we’re not alleging or a crime that’s not the focus. We didn’t charge it.†p. 30-31 Court asks if they will seek to introduce evidence of it, even though not charged.

Prosecutor then mentions that prior conversations will come up in the context of the GJ testimony re: some notes that Libby had from 7-8 to “tell information to Ms. Miller” on 7-8. Libby says those notes meant to tell about the NIE and not about Plame and she was not discussed. OTOH, the Prosecutor says it is Govs understanding that both were discussed that day. Prosecutor then wraps up that the NIE was also discussed with Miller on 7-2 and there was a 6-23 discussion with someone (apparently Woodward) and that conversation is “not the focus†Fitzgerald seems to be pondering the existential question: why would you make a note to “tell†Judy on 7-8 about the NIE, when you had already told her on 7-2 about – — the NIE.

Wells wants Fitzgerald to say he won’t try to put on evidence that disclosures to either Miller or Woodward were unauthorized; and the response is interesting. “If he’s going to say that he was always strict by the book and never ever disclosed anything classified and never ever strayed over the line – - “33-34

In any event, Fitzgerald says that he doesn’t have anything that specifies a specific date of the declassification, but that Libby’s own GJ testimony indicates he might not have been authorized. You have to wonder if he might have something else, though, that might otherwise indicate Libby did not have authority.
Court: You don’t have anything that would definitely show he did not have authority.
Mr. Fitzgerald: As to the timing, no, I don’t have anything that sets the date other than before, my belief is it is before July 8th. . . .

As to something other than timing?

Al-scooter at 200, it’s a strange thing that I’ve been in the newspapers, reported on radio, and interviewed for tv in both this country and in Russia where I am president of a charity that supports newborn heart surgery. I find fame more frightening than pleasurable.

Still, the most difficult work of my life is raising these lovely three children.

Hi Egregious 1/185

Congratulations on all the happy news in your family – and for the happy fact of your presence!

Thanks for hanging out in a place with such intense focus on the future….that must take a lot of psycic energy at times.

Lastly, we must really be “jonesin for bubba”, I don’t remember Lewinsky being quite so fetching.

Personal info , and bragging, but my fiancee looks a lot like Jodie in that pic. Man, I’m a lucky dude. She’s better than I deserve.

Monday? Maybe Bush will be splainin’ why he just nuked Iran . . .

Whew, glad to know I’m not crazy…or am I? And you just can’t beat a “Rosemarys Baby” reference.

re: Mccain I could not Let this pass
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/…..573246.htm

And for sheer horror, a peep at the executive biographies:http://www.liberty.edu/index.cfm?PID=6911

Oh Coz, that constant guy was so..so..so constant.

rwcole #195:

To hazard a guess now rather than in 2009, I’d say that the supposed lack of a defined tipping point was caused by two related things:

1. Rove’s monomaniacal drive to polarize the electorate; and
2. The subjection of the American people to one of the great sustained propaganda effort this side of China.

The second controlled information, especially in terms of framing and imagery, so tightly that it forestalled any reasoned response by the majority of Americans. (To me, the real value in F/911 was Moore’s demonstration that the same set of facts in the conventional narrative could be supplemented and rearranged in a completely different pattern to yield completely different insights.)

The first meant that different groups of people would respond differently re: different issues, inhibiting a mass rejection of the conventional wisdom. So I agree that this process was a one-by-one conversion rather than a sudden event. I believe that the trigger was the Schiavo case, though, when enough of mainstream America saw the RW’s priorities and rejected them.

What we see now is, I believe, a system in which a great deal of negative force (for the administration) built slowly and silently until it reached a critical level to begin reinforcing itself. Its origins in multiple events makes it much more difficult for the WH to contain, because their meta-narrative is losing structural integrity (credibility) in several areas simultaneously, and they don’t have a backup to slide into place.

everhopeful says:
May 13th, 2006 at 7:41 pm
Mash #68: I’m not a lawyer, but it seems to me that would be the least of the charges Cheney should be looking at – maybe one of the lawyers here knows – if he was giving marching orders, wouldn’t Cheney be guilty of heading up a conspiracy?
———————————————————-
He could be indicted, perhaps, but certainly not convicted. There’d be a greymail defense and a bunch of executive privilege invocations. Fitz might be able to pick him off on perjury or obstruction charges. He won’t indict until his case is solid.

As for those who are worried about a Saturday Night Massacre and pardons all around, don’t sweat it. For one thing, it’s political suicide. For another, Rove and Libby are still going to get hit with civil suits from Valerie Wilson. Bush can’t just make this all go away with a firing and a bunch of pardons.

What I find most intriguing is trying to figure out what the Republicans are going to do about all of this. Cheney is looking at possible impeachment and maybe even a jail cell. They could try to push him out, but I don’t think he’s going to go quietly. And there’re a bunch of other scandals (There seems to be a new one at the NSA every week.) to worry about. If the Republicans stay the course, they’re looking at a possible bloodbath in November. If the Democrats take control of either house of Congress, the skeletons will all come out, and the Republican party is going to be even more damaged. From an objective standpoint, their best bet is to cut their losses, impeach both Bush and Cheney, and put Hastert in place before the Democrats have a chance to start any investigations.

Thoughts?

“egregious”

Doesn’t begin to cover all the bases these days, does it, my friend?

Stay close and continue egregiousizing….

rwcole#195 and al-scooter#247 (if your numbers don’t change :)

I think the negative opinion is like a nuclear reaction now – there’s no stopping it and no turning back. If the Democrats can take one of the Houses in November (which smarter people than me see as likely) the public may be calling for impeachment.

Gnite Johnboy!

I agree with those who think a pardon for all is in the near future. A trial of Libby, Rove, Hadley, and/or, Cheney leaves Bush in a terrible political situation for the next year or two. Can the Republicans win in November without Karl directing everything? Karl is already out there focusing on scaring people into the Republicans’ corner.

A pardon and a firing of Fitzgerald ends court filings, Grand Jury testimony and investigations. With Grand Jury rules, Fitzgerald couldn’t testify before a Congressional hearing on what he’s learned, could he? And if Karl were successful in November, there would be no hearings with a Republican Congress.

What Bush has to weigh is which outcome, Indictments vs. pardons/firing Fitzgerald, is better for him, and he’s probably already made that decision.

Clearly, Republicans would be happy to see Fitzgerald gone. Pat’s prosecuted Democrats, too, particularly in Illinois, so there could be a “sigh of relief” that it would be back to business as usual. Democracy loses, but this Presidency is more about power. How can Bush not play the “get out of jail” card?

Urban Pirate @169~
“The people who are marginally involved with politics are going to realize we were right. They will have a hard time buying any more spin now.”

Not so much is that true. Today I ran into a woman who has been drinking the kool-aid forever. She needed my phone number and I said I was changing from cingular to t-mobile because of the nsa dataminig. She said “How do you know they got your information?” My response was “what does it matter? If they only got one number, they did it illegally and deserve to be impeached.” When I said 200 million Americans had been mined, she refused to believe it and “even if they had been tapped, it’s because they had connections to Osama.”
This is what we have to look forward to…

Gentleman Jim (222),
Yes it’s not over. We still have to save Iran for one. Then there’s Gen. Hayden (ughh!). Mr. Rapture McCain is giving commencemnt speeches right & left: liberty university & than the New School.There are a lot of fires to put out.
But I cannot wait to toast Fitzgerald. *raising soda glass* Cheers!
imman, hello friend.
& egregious,it is so great that you are here.

Frank Probst #248 says:

“…From an objective standpoint, their best bet is to cut their losses, impeach both Bush and Cheney, and put Hastert in place before the Democrats have a chance to start any investigations.

Thoughts? “

But with less than 6 months to go before the midterms, I don’t see that happening – too little time – unless they start next week – and even then…

They seem to have too little time to do much of anything about the coming onslaught.

hmmm…

with the Bushies’ image control, Dead Eye’s multiple photo-op naps seem a bit contrived*

my inner cynic visualizes Dick’s severe illness diagnosed Monday morning…..

and a Monday night pardon for droop-eye, scooter, turd-blossom, and the rest of the grease trap. for dick’s health, of course.

shrub speaks of balance of justice and defense of the nation

then back to pushing Medicare D and Gulf War III

(* unless he’s gone off his kitten and orphans diet again)

leslie (253), I guess your acquaintance doesn’t read USA Today. Or perhaps the NYT? Which I have bought for the past two days, reading & contemplating all the evil.

ccmask@235 at 8:50 ~
“Geez…could Porter Goss have turned it in?”

Well if he did turn it in, he did it before they named him to receive some “medal of freedom” (along w/cheney). Maybe that is the tip-off. They are going to get rid of “heckuva job cheney” just like they got rid of goss!!

Welcome home, E. “greg”.

denise @ 244 ~
“Whew, glad to know I’m not crazy…or am I? And you just can’t beat a “Rosemarys Baby†reference.”
well… you could say, “gaslight”

mui~
I think this woman is still living in a pre-2003 world. Unfortunately, so are 29% of the US – if the polls are correct.
Let us pray.

Praying for Rove to fall at

http://nettertainment.blogspot…..rayer.html

“Monday? Maybe Bush will be splainin’ why he just nuked Iran…”

That’s my fear too. What would he say on immigration? Is there any way Americans can stop WW3 once it starts?

We can never live down the reelection of Bush.

Saddam told the truth, Bush lied, and almost 2500 of our best are now dead.
Many thousands of innocent Iraqis, in a soverign country, a country which did us no harm, are now dead also. Ongoing horrific misery goes on in Iraq, and for what? A powerful lie!! This now war criminal president turned 9/11 into a mockery in the eyes of the majority of the masses on this glob, and in the process of doing so subverted our own constitution. “Bring them on”, “shock and awe”, the constitution is “only a god damned piece of paper”, were the battle crys of this criminal administration. The goose stepping boots of our rubber stamping corporate driven republican congress allowed the thrashing of our constitution to go on,

Just a reminder/clarification. Fitz cannot touch bush and/or cheney while they remain in office. They can only be impeached by congress. Therefore, I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for cheneys’ resignation… ;)

Splunge- well no. Bush can”t be indicted. Cheney can be.

Many argue that Clusterfuck can be indicted also:

By Richard M. Mathews

Precedent exists to indict a Vice President.

Vice President Aaron Burr was subject to indictments in two states while still
in office. Burr stayed out of those two states to avoid prosecution.

In the case of Spiro Agnew, Solicitor General Robert Bork filed a brief arguing
that, consistent with the Constitution, the Vice President could be subject to
indictment and criminal prosecution. While still Vice President, Agnew plea
bargained a deal in which he plead “no contest” to tax evasion. He resigned the
same day he entered his plea.

For a President, there is no clear precedent one way or another. The closest is
the case of Nixon. The Grand Jury reportedly wanted to indict Nixon.
Prosecutor Jaworski convinced them to avoid the issue of whether the President
may be indicted by naming him as an unindicted coconspirator. This was
sufficient to get a subpoena for Nixon’s records including the tapes. Nixon
argued that the subpoena was invalid because he was not subject to indictment.
The Supreme Court sidestepped the indictment issue by ruling that they did not
need to answer that question in order to reach their conclusion that the
subpoena was valid. United States v. Nixon, 418 U.S. 683, 687 n. 2 (1974).

There is not a single word in the Constitution that supports a claim that the
President cannot be indicted. On the contrary, the Constitution merely says
this about impeachment:
Article I, Section 3, Clause 7:
Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to
removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office
of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States: but the Party
convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment,
Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law.
Article II, Section 4:
The President, Vice President and all Civil Officers of the United
States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for and Conviction
of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.

Note that in the above sections the Constitution treats impeachment of the
President exactly the same as impeachment of any other Officer. The only place
where the Constitution treats the President differently with respect to
impeachment is in that the Chief Justice sits as the presiding officer in the
Senate trial of a President:
Article I, Section 3, Clause 6:
The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments. When
sitting for that Purpose, they shall be on Oath or Affirmation. When
the President of the United States is tried the Chief Justice shall
preside: And no Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of
two thirds of the Members present.

Since the Constitution treats the President identically to all other Officers,
and since there is substantial precedent for indicting other impeachable
officers including judges and members of Congress, it follows that the President
may also be indicted. Courts have specifically held that a federal judge is
indictable and may be convicted prior to removal from office. United States v.
Claiborne, 727 F.2d 842, 847-848 (9th Cir.), cert. den., 469 U.S. 829 (1984);
United States v. Hastings, 681 F.2d 706, 710-711 (11th Cir.), cert. den., 459
U.S. 1203 (1983); United States, v. Isaacs, 493 F.2d 1124, 1142 (7th Cir.),
cert. den. sub nom., Kerner v. United States, 417 U.S. 976 (1974).

Note also that Article I, Section 3, Clause 7 brings up the issue of indictment.
It clearly indicates that those subject to impeachment are also subject to
indictment “according to Law.” It in no way suggests that the law be suspended
until after the impeachment and/or Senate trial.

The New York Times reported on 1/31/99 that “Starr has concluded that he has the
constitutional authority to seek a grand jury indictment of president Clinton
before he leaves the White House in January, 2001.”

Professor Eric Freedman of the Hofstra University School of Law has submitted
extensive written and oral testimony to Congress stating that a sitting
President may be indicted. He questions under what circumstances this power may
be used. See, e.g., E. Freedman, “The Law and King and the King as Law: Is a
President Immune from Criminal Prosecution Before Impeachment?” 20 Hastings L.Q.
7 (1992).

Among Freedman’s arguments in support of the position that a sitting President
can be subjected to criminal proceedings, Freedman contends that the 25th
Amendment can be used as a mechanism for having the President leave office
temporarily if a criminal trial or resulting sentence precludes the President
from performing his constitutional duties. The Amendment kicks in if the
President “is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office,” then the
25th Amendment applies (the quoted text is straight from both the 3rd and 4th
sections of the Amendment).

That filthy pervert Irving G Liddy is Bushitler’s SS member Reinhard Heydrich. KKKarl Rovesputin is Bushitlers SS Reichsfuhrer Heinrich Himmler.
With these two fanatic Waffen SS willing and ready to die in the ditchs for the Warthland I expect the Fuhrer’s speech on Monday’s (Walpurgisnacht?) to read something like…’ My fellow Volksfrei members. I am pleased to announce that we have signed warrents outlawing Iran and North Korea forever…we begin bombing in five minutes. Gott in himmel. I hear the voices and Gott mit uns. Deciderating is hard work so Sieg Heil,guten nacht and a happy Gotterdamerung. Mein Gott bless Amerikkka.

Will be interesting to see what role Rove plays in the elections coming up.

He will apparently leave the White House- but could take up residence at the RNC.

As a consultant, Rove could demand more money. He may need it.

…it will not get any better for the Bush gang, in fact it only gets worse…Saturn’s to blame, toodling over George’s ascendant then over his Merc and Pluto…and karl has some nasty Saturn aspects as well so he won’t get off either, they’re all fucked…nice to see so many things straightened out here tonight…waiting so long for Rove to go down, it gets anticlimactic after awhile…still though, I have the champagne ready even if I have to drink it with the dogs…

Lincoln knew the war was about slavery too. You have to take Lincoln’s quotes out of context to think he wasn’t trying to attack slavery. He ran on a platform of ending slavery in the territories. If he had backed away from that platform, the southern states would have stayed. He wouldn’t. When he said he would prefer to save the union with slavery, it was just a way of backing off the house divided speech, saying he wouldn’t interfere IN THE SOUTH. But he never backed away from his pledge to abolish it in the territories. It was that pledge that was non-negotiable for both sides and made war inevitable. There was no other issue even discussed but slavery. Southern secession meetings didn’t get together and talk about being forced to eat Boston baked beans or northern grain or speak with flat R’s like we do in Chicago. They got together and said Lincoln’s a tyrant because he won’t allow slavery in the territories.

Some relevant commentary on the start of the Civil War:

Dargan @ Alabama secession convention: Years ago I was convinced that the Southern States would be compelled either to separate from the North, by dissolving the Federal Government, or they would be compelled to abolish the institution of African Slavery.

Toombs of Georgia: In 1820, the Northern party, (and I mean by that term now and whenever else it is used, or its equivalent, in these remarks, the Antislavery or Abolition party of the North,) endeavored to exclude the State of Missouri from admission into the Union, because she chose to protect African slavery in the new State. In the House, where they had a majority, they rejected her application, and a struggle ensued, when some half a dozen of Northern men gave way, and admitted the State, but upon condition of the exclusion of slavery from all that country, acquired from France by the treaty of 1802, lying north of thirty- six degrees thirty minutes, north latitude, and outside of the State of Missouri. This act of exclusion violated the express provisions of the treaty of 1802, to which the National faith was pledged; violated the well-settled policy of the Government, at least from Adams’s administration to that day, and has, since slavery was adjudicated by the Supreme Court of the United States, violated the Constitution itself. When we acquired California and New- Mexico this party, scorning all compromises and all concessions, demanded that slavery should be forever excluded from them, and all other acquisitions of the Republic, either by purchase or conquest, forever.

The Gov. of Tennessee‘s intro to his state convention on secession: The systematic, wanton, and long continued agitation of the slavery question, with the actual and threatened aggressions of the Northern States and a portion of their people, upon the well-defined constitutional rights of the Southern citizen; the rapid growth and increase, in all the elements of power, of a purely sectional party, whose bond of union is uncompromising hostility to the rights and institutions of the fifteen Southern States, have produced a crisis in the affairs of the country.

the peroration of the Alabama legislature’s appeal to the N. Carolina leg.: Beyond this, is the fact that the plain letter of the Constitution, providing for the rendition of fugitive slaves, has not only been annulled by the non-slave-holding States, but several of them have, by their so-called “personal-liberty bills,” made it a highly penal offense for a master to attempt the enforcement of the Fugitive-Slave Law of Congress. So it has come to this, that degrading punishment is the consequence of a citizen of the South going into these States, with the Constitution of the United States in his hand, asking simply for the performance of the guarantees therein provided. Nor are those non-slave-holding States that have not passed such bills, behind their cooperators in practically annulling the clause of the Constitution referred to—for it is well known that in most, if not all of the non-slave-holding States, the rights of the master of the slave are defied and set at naught, and that public opinion, aided by mobs, has as effectively overthrown the Constitution and the Law, as though neither had any existence. Were this state of things the result of some sudden gleam of passion, the people of Alabama might hope, that a returning sense of justice would bring obedience to duty; but, unhappily, the past and present prove that such a hope is illusory. The violations of their obligations to us, have been so long continued, and so oft repeated, that the principle has incorporated itself into their education and religion, until the doctrine of the law of conscience has been set up over the supreme law of the land, and hatred to the South and her institutions has usurped the teachings of the Bible.

You have to be an idiot to think the war was about something other than slavery.

Makes you wonder why Bush is making a prime time speech on immigration. Maybe Fitz will give all of us a grand day to overshadow the speech. OH PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEase.

Whenever I hear someone talk of n*k**g Iran even in jest—I am very superstitious: I want to spit twice and take it back. Please let’s not see this as a given and work toward the better & try not to see it vain.
Leslie 261. Yes! I am praying for peace anyway I know how.
BTW Interesting article in Asian Times online, called the U.S. geopolitical nightmare:
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/HE09Ad01.html

Prof. Rat 269. that Liddy name gives me the heebie jeebies *shudder*.

I just read a very interesting Chomsky article, entitled something like, Subordinate and Non-Subordinate States. He gets E. Asia wrong though. They do care about relations with the U.S., but need resources.
Via truthout.org:
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/051006E.shtml

leslie253- Maybe we should start calling the kook-aid crowd, the left behind people instead. As the majority of people are finding the on/off switch to their bs detectors, the shrinking pied piper followers will be reduced to muttering, “it’s all jane fonda’s fault.
A caller to an air america program said a great descriptive thing about the sleeping americans…called them a bunch of floating balloon heads…wouldn’t that be a great cartoon, tshirt etc?

Cheney and every other wingnut likes to throw around words like “junket” or “boondoggle” to describe Wilson’s trip, and on that basis assert that Plame’s involvement with the trip justifiably should have become a matter of public record. Of course, Wilson’s trip to Niger was anything but a “boondoggle.” It was an unpaid and solo working trip to a rather less-than-glamorous destination. It was the opposite of … I don’t know … say, a luxury golfing holiday in Scotland (accompanied by wives/mistresses) under a laughable cover story about a non-existent meeting with Margaret Thatcher.

But note Cheney’s use of the term “pro bono.” Even at that early stage, Cheney knew Wilson wasn’t even paid for his time. Cheney knew from the get-go that Wilson’s trip was no “junket,” or “boondoggle.”

http://tinyurl.com/a6erq

^^^ HELP IMPEACH TODAY

Keep the pressure on Congress… Talking about impeachment wakes people up… They question, it’s a strong motivator to get people thinking. It also lets Congress know how intense the dissapproval is for this President… They seem to be a little slow on the uptake. So please:

1) Sign petitions if you have not done so
2) Send a letter to Congress (both Senators & House rep)
3) Send a copy to the media
4) Enlist friends and family to help, ask them to chip in time
5) Spread the link around, email it (with a request to forward) post it on a blog, or in the comments of a news story.

Help out!!!

Thanks :)