Fitz

it’s not just morin who’s carrying bush’s water — it’s the washington post trying to justify its warmongering

re-Fitz!!!

Post-Fitz …

Keep fighting Jane!

You’re learning how the game is played, and teaching us. Thanks.

“won’t get fooled again. no,no”

Orwellian

So how do you pronounce Morin?

Great photo.

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?Item said…
West Point Graduates Against The War: Now Is The Time
by James Ryan

http://www.zmag.org/content/
showarticle.cfm?ItemID=10254

May 12, 2006

West Point Graduates Against the War

Cry “Havoc!” and let slip the dogs of war,
That this foul deed shall smell above the earth
With carrion men, groaning for burial.
Julius Caesar

Why?

We members of West Point Graduates Against The War stand appalled at the deceitful behavior of the government of the United States and, in particular, its widely known malefactors. Their lying, cheating, stealing, and rendition of evasive statements not only has demeaned these deceivers and our country, but they have placed vast numbers of innocent people in deadly peril as a direct result of their deceptions. We will not serve these lies, that is, we will not work for, be a servant to, provide for, assist, or promote the interests of this dishonorable administration. By remaining silent we tacitly serve; we are no longer silent.

The illegal assault and occupation in Iraq has killed tens of thousands of innocents, both American, Iraqi, and others, causing incalculable damage to Iraq and the Iraqi people, as well as the reputation and honor of the United States of America.
ID=10254

TIA– Total Idiot Asshats!

sorry for the double entendre.

Thanks…Yep we are learnin alrighty!

He’s not a Morin; he’s a SuperMorin.

I’ll stop now.

Here’s a question for Morin to consider: would it change any pro-listening Americans’ minds if they were told that there might be *NO* benefit to the government keeping all these records? You know, if they were just spying on random people for the hell of it? Normally, when one does a cost-benefit analysis, one doesn’t merely take the existence of a benefit on *faith*.

I mean, we’re being asked to take the word of the *Bush* Administration about whether this program does *anything* useful – and these are the same masters of logic who argue that the absence of another terrorist attack means Bush is doing a good job, and if there were to be another attack, it would mean we need Bush to be a strong leader?

They really cover all their bases. Too bad the Post can’t say the same for their work.

Pelosi with with “no impeachment” pledge makes me fucking ill.

Nothing like allowing others to set the frame you idiot.

If I were Bush now, I’d start banging interns and bombing Jamaica….”Hey, I got a free pass!”

-GSD

This Morin guy sure knows how to strike before the iron is hot.

i emailed morin at 6a this morning. jeez, surely i was one of the first and i still haven’t received a response. i politely asked him why his rather small sampling of 502 didn’t correspond to any of the many earlier polls on wiretapping issues. not to mention that the friggin story broke as people were leaving for work and hardly had an opportunity to grasp the details before they were called last nite.

if you’re interested, pollingreport is a great resource:

http://www.pollingreport.com/terror.htm

How about polling that asked “Would you allow President Bush or President Hillary Clinton to spy without any legal oversight whatsoever?”

-GSD

Ahhh, the Condor.(wink wink).

I agree with this post. Morin is not primarily a pollster or a statistician, he is a political operative. He made that very clear throughout the whole interview, a part of which was shown in the post.

I think there is an important point made by the poll and that is that we should make sure we present reasoned and cogent arguments for our positions, so this kind of fraud is less persuasive from the get go.

This is repeated from the previous post to expand on my point:
… new Moring poll in WaPo seems faked up to me. I am not even sure I would say I disapproved of that kind of program, in a different context (like, with real Congressional oversight, halfway normal people in office who recognized law). I think it is important for those of us opposed to BushCo to get beyond sheer outrage and yelling “Get a load of this cr*p!†when we express ourselves.
So we should count to ten and take a deep breath. Points I emphasize calmly are, in this order 1) Regardless of whether program it itself is accetable or not, Executive needs to follow law, and Congress needs to perform oversight, and Courts need to review; 2) given the BushCo track record, if there is no oversight, what is the chance that it actually works -really, what is it? 10%, 20%, maybe 50% if we’re rreeaall lucky? 3) Regardless of what intent is now or what happened so far, think about potential or abuse; 4) and there is other stuff going on we don’t know about.

I also think that BushCo scaremongering is also a valid point -what is it about merely discussing this that endangers national security? Anyway, I think people who start their arguments with sheer outrage are not being very effecive.

***
As a closing thought, I remember reading about the Mapplethorpe obscenity trial in Cincinnati. The jury from this supposedly very conservative city did not find Mapplethorpe’s photos obscene. I remember some quotes from the jury that went something like: The proscution didn’t present any argument or explanation at all. They just rolled out the pictures and yelled “Get a load of this!” We thought some of pictures were making interesting points in kind of a humorous way.

So, those are rough paraphrases. But idea is that you always need a convincing cogent arguments, not just outrage.

The day is quickly approaching when Rethugs will be touting how THEY were the only ones courageous enough to rein in Bush the Dictator while sniveling congressional Democrats stood by ready to see the Constitution flushed down the drain.

Jane,

It is spectacular to see you pull back the curtain and expose the spinning gears of the Republican noise machine.

Once we understand the inner workings of their machine, we can absolutely wreck it.

The machine depends on secrecy for the perpetuation of lies – transparency and truth are the kryptonite.

Keep it up – and thank you.

MyDD blog has an interesting point on the Morin hackery… http://www.mydd.com/story/2006/5/12/174756/397

Morin was whorin’ for BushCo. Simple as that. WaPoo should be ashamed. But, I won’t hold my breath.

Another way to look at this poll:

44. What do you think is more important right now – (for the federal government to investigate possible terrorist threats, even if that intrudes on personal privacy); or (for the federal government not to intrude on personal privacy, even if that limits its ability to investigate possible terrorist threats)?

Confronted with this false dichotomy, 31% of respondents still answered “privacy”, and that number’s been growing since Sept. of 2002.

This Morin is really shameless, and I think his questions suck. A reasonable set of questions would have included the legality issues, whether Congress should be given a chance to give informed consent, etc.

Here’s another question:

45. It’s been reported that the National Security Agency has been collecting the phone call records of tens of millions of Americans. It then analyzes calling patterns in an effort to identify possible terrorism suspects, without listening to or recording the conversations. Would you consider this an acceptable or unacceptable way for the federal government to investigate terrorism? Do you feel that way strongly or somewhat?

Notice they don’t mention that it’s unsupervised, so we actually have no idea what they’re collecting or how they’re collecting it. Might affect a few opinions.

Here’s as much of the poll as I could find:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..051206.htm

Pelosi with with “no impeachment†pledge makes me fucking ill.

Nothing like allowing others to set the frame you idiot.

not only that, but once again, she reinforces the meme that democrats are all over the motherfucking place and don’t have a clue, when it’s really her who is taking any and all positions. i really wonder if she doesn’t love her status as minority leader — she gets a big office, occasionally gets on teevee, but never, ever has to take responsibility for the legislation passed. hey, just like fredo.

the dems desperately need new leadership.

Wrong name, Moron instead of Morin.

John B – Absolutely agree. I was thinking along the lines of French mythology concerning the Resistence. The fact is that not many French were part of it during the War; yet after, the Resistence’s numbers swelled.

Of course it was all revisionist. The question is, how will they get all those stickers off their cars.

I just flipped on All Things Considered and they had (shudder) David Brooks on discussing this poll… more neo-con body snatchers at NPR.

Even Froomkin thinks this poll is complete crap. From today’s column …

“Here’s the language from the Washington Post/ABC News poll :

“What do you think is more important right now — (for the federal government to investigate possible terrorist threats, even if that intrudes on personal privacy); or (for the federal government not to intrude on personal privacy, even if that limits its ability to investigate possible terrorist threats)? Sixty-five percent said investigate threats; 31 percent said privacy.

“It’s been reported that the National Security Agency has been collecting the phone call records of tens of millions of Americans. It then analyzes calling patterns in an effort to identify possible terrorism suspects, without listening to or recording the conversations. Would you consider this an acceptable or unacceptable way for the federal government to investigate terrorism? Do you feel that way strongly or somewhat?” Sixty-three percent said acceptable, 35 percent said unacceptable.

But aside from creating an unfair and false conflict between national security and privacy, these questions simply aren’t the most appropriate ones right now. How about asking something like this:

* Do you feel you know enough about how this program works to reach a definitive conclusion?

* Do you think the public should know more about this program and others like it?

* Should the government be able to launch programs like this in secret?

* Do you think President Bush should have asked for approval from the courts or Congress before taking this action?

* Do you trust the Bush administration not to abuse a program like this, when there is no independent oversight?”

obviously, ginnin’ up a bogus impeachment poll is hard work, heh.

I have beaten this a lot, but today is when Gov is to file their submission from (presumably Alexander?) for the final chants in their State Secrets invocation in the EFF lawsuit. Interesting timing to have that for filing and Morin’s *interesting* poll hit at the same time.

pdf of Gov’s filing to intervene:
http://www.eff.org/legal/cases…..terest.pdf

4
The United States is preparing to submit its state secrets privilege assertion, motion to
intervene, and motion to dismiss by May 12, 2006,
. . .
In addition, however, the protection of state secrets often requires dismissal of a case. . . . The United States believes that principle to be applicable here; thus, in addition to asserting the state secrets privilege, the United States also
intends to file a motion to intervene in this action under Rule 24 of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure for the purpose of seeking dismissal of this case.

. . . government to complete its submission, which will also take into account allegations made in Plaintiffs’ recent motion for a preliminary injunction. In addition, the privilege itself must be asserted by the agency head responsible for protecting the information at issue after actual personal consideration by the officer. . . .The government intends to file its submission by May 12, 2006 . . .

Finally, because the United States intends to assert the state secrets privilege and file a
dispositive motion to dismiss this action, the United States requests that discovery proceedings be deferred until the government’s submission has been considered and heard.

Or at least long enough to offshore records?

*s*

I hate to admit it, but I was listening to Good Morning America while I was getting ready for work and, of course, Charlie Gibson et al were chirping about the poll. I wondered. Thanks for the insight on this because my blood boils every time these polls are trotted out to make everyone think all of this is just fine and dandy with the average American. I hope the backlash from this huge for both WaPo and ABC.

And what happended to the Grand Jury today? Did Tweety say it on purpose to get us all excited for nothing?

OT – I have a comment below thread with no links awaiting moderation. Are there words/phrases that need to be avoided?

Well, I suppose if everyone approves of being monitored, then I must as well. This weekend I’ll be installing my own email/telephone data collector, which should make it easier for the hardworking folks at NSA since they won’t have to install it. One less thing for them to worry about. I think you can pick them up at Home Despot.

Anyone heard from mamayaga?

anon @ 3:23 pm (#28) * Do you trust the Bush administration not to abuse a program like this, when there is no independent oversight?â€

Well, how about “Would you trust the Clinton Administration not to abuse a power like this? How about the Johnson Administration? Nixon? Grant? Harding?”

Whatever safeguards there are need to be able to work for everybody, or they’re pretty meaningless. I think we’re seeing an example of that, now.

I really, really think Pelosi is an ass.

I understand that she’s trying to take away the idea that the Dems want a “tit for tat” impeachment witchhunt.

I dont understand why the messaging is so bad.

why not;

“This country needs oversight. The children are running amok and need parenting. A Democrat lead conress will provide a check on this runaway presidency through oversight, as required by the constitution”

Wow, I got quoted in an FDL post?!? I’ll never wash my keyboard again!

You know, Lou- lou Dobbs et al seeeeems to be going our way, but I am stating here for my own ‘on the record moment’, he is a wingnut using the ever pervasive xenophobia to keep him ‘centered’. i watch him. carefully. like a rabid animal… he’s an opportunist.

saw morin this am, he looked and talked jest like lou.

Thank God firedoglake is discrediting Morin’s obvious wing-nuttery. Every time he comes out with a biased Bush loving poll – the MSM shuts down. Bush could disband Congress (he already effectively did), shred our Constitution (already underway) and the next day Morin would come out with a poll stating, ‘63% of Americans approve of Strong Executive Action during the War on Terror”.

I was also just listening to David Brooks on NPR preening himself over Morin’s poll. Now the Administration will start boasting about how the American public has supposedly given them the green light to spy on ordinary citizens without a warrant. Let’s hope they’ll be in for a rude surprise in November. In the meantime, it would be interesting to learn the results of a more accurate poll.

Are there any recent polls on HOW BushCo is conducting this program? For example:

The executive branch is compiling a database of all your telephone contacts in an effort to spot terrorist communications. Do you think a review every 45 days of whole program conducted by one nameless lawyer and seen by no one outside the Bush administration constitutes adequate oversight and protection against potential abuses of your privacy?

Given the performance of the Bush administration in Iraq reconstruction program, Katrina hurricane disaster rescue and relief, and security checks in UAE port sale, what do you think chances are that this program is conducted in way that it actually produces useful information?

I want to see the results of those polls.

Oops, #28 – want to make clear, that is Froomkin’s brilliant writing, not mine. His latest column is right here …

http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..00879.html

Mary @ 3:26 pm (#32) Yes, there are such phrases or combinations of words. We ran into one the other day chatting about how to make nuclear fuel better.

Unfortunately, we don’t know what all the combinations are.

I spoke to my sister on the phone last night about 8:30 – she’s fairly politically savvy, definitely a liberal and keeps up fairly well on the news.

Well, she had had a hard day at work and had not heard WORD ONE about the NSA phone stuff yet.

My point is: what Jane said! This Morin Moron knew exactly what he was doing – working people were not up to speed yet, which was his whole point. Jerk!

Mary at 30:

a story about the EFF lawsuit in Forbes.com today:

http://www.forbes.com/2006/05/…..r=yahootix

“Fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can’t get fooled again.”

From Morin’s slanted polling back to the Project for a New American Century’s faux-academic screeds asking “Ain’t War Grand?,” we’ve see the corrupt use of academic social science methods by the ideological hedghogs.

I’ve been reading lately how academic social science was one of the main pressure points of the National Socialists in Germany in the 1930s.

Not that Bushism and Nazism are the same in all respects, mind you….

aarrgghh #29: good point. Morin will have to do impeachment poll sooner or later, and doing a cooked one is getting tougher everyday. Morin is clever, but not that clever. Let’s see how well his homepollcooking recipe turns out when he cannot avoid an impeachment poll any longer.

Pelosi’s message boils down to -

Vote Dem, bc we like the President better than you do!!!

Uh, but, like, you know, uh, not as much as Pat Roberts does.

Except, you know, some of us do, but not, like, ALL of us.

And also except Russ Feingold, who we can’t figure out even with the NSA decoder ring.

But yeah – vote for us for those reasons.

Apart from the highly leading questions, I think asking people in a phone survey how they feel about having their phones tapped is totally absurd. The answers you give depend on how paranoid you are! Only Karl Rove could have come up with this.

Mary@48. Sadly funny.

Per his promise, which you quote, now that people ARE talking about impeachment, is he going to poll it? (Ans: no. Because it doesn’t suit his agenda.)

I think it’s almost time for Zogby or Harris to do a poll about the phone records – not too soon, though – wait a little bit to let people digest the info and learn more of the real facts that are dripping out – they get worse every day.

But we need a real poll out there to call Morin’s into serious question.

I saw Carol Doda in 1975 in a San Francisco nightclub. Her lead act was Bobby Freeman who had one hit in 1965 called “The Swim.” He did a 15 minute version of that and then Carol came out with those tits.

Afterwards, I walked across the street and headed into the City Lights bookstore where Lawrence Ferlinghetti was handling the cashier duties. I bought a copy of Allen Ginsberg’s “The Fall of America.”

Great book.

i haven’t spotted mamayaga since her brilliant post and quiet and unobstrusive visit thereafter….. i am hoping she is being treated beautifully by a fantastic Citizen of the World!!!

JWR– congrats!!!

John Casper– congrats!

All three of you have been great contributors to my life!

Pelosi illustrated once again PRECISELY why the Democrats keep getting their asses handed to them at election time, and why, unbelievable as it may seem given the Icarus-like plunge the Republicans and the Bush administration are currently experiencing, the Democrats are still not at all guaranteed a win in the November midterms.

What the Democratic leadership ought to be saying whenever somebody brings up the issue of impeachment is basically “Yeah, well in light of all of the crap the Republicans have been pulling over the past several years, impeachment should actually be the least of their worries when the Democrats retake the House in November.”

And yet, we’re going to have bubbleheads like Pelosi repeatedly undermining the party and making the Democrats look like a bunch of bald-faced liars. Nobody is going to buy this bullshit, intelligence-insulting story that “impeachment is off the table.” All that’s going to do is to lose the Democrats votes in November.

Sticky, Brooks and Dionne are regulars and ahave been for a long time.

New Morin Poll:

63% of Americans agree with Bush 100% of the time.

It certainly looks as if the WP is trying to shore up Clusterfuck- as is CNN and many others.

It may be that they all fear what could happen if we have a guy in the White House for three years with 15% approval ratings- or they may just be ass kissin goopers. Don’t know which.

what was that line?

“we’re so busy keeping our jobs, we forgot to DO our jobs.”

Total bunch of lightweights.

OT, but unbelievable… Bush’s stunt of lecturing the country on immigration in Eastern prime time Monday night will be his first ever address from the Oval on a domestic issue. NBC/GE so far the only broadcast network so far to give up valuable sweeps real estate

Thanks angie.

lina @ 3:31 pm (#45) – That link didn’t work for me. Here’s one that did:

http://www.forbes.com/2006/05/…..12nsa.html

why don’t we poll fdl readership on this issue?

Consider the financial value of the information that the NSA has gathered!
ALL the INSIDE information on EVERY company.

Think they might be tempted to do a little INSIDER TRADING?

How about INDUSTRIAL ESPIONAGE? Think their companies might benefit from some inside information on their competitors?

NBC Nightly News…

Lead story: NSA records AND the Washpo poll.

The Mighty Wurlitzer…

Coz – Maybe they will debunk the poll? I would try to discredit the competition. Let us know.

another interesting note about the morin poll is that the front page of the wapo has had a screaming headling: Majority Supports NSA Phone Record Database. it has not changed all day long which is very unusual.

Related to surveilling all private phone traffic: Anyone ever heard of “Intelligent Mail”?

The U.S. Postal Commission not too long ago proffered the absurd idea of requiring sender and recipient ID for all private U.S. mail, as a similar “data mining/surveillance” anti-”terrist” tactic. Ain’t gonna happen, ‘cuz’a what should be obvious reasons — what, you gotta show 2 forms of photo ID to buy stamps or mail a letter?

Fucking ridiculous, but that didn’t stop ‘em from trying. Well, if you take th trouble to read THAT section of the Postal Commssion report (which I did) AND read a paper issued by Pitney-Bowes during the hearing process (which I did), it becomes clear that Pitney-Bowes essentially WROTE that section of the Commission report — they wanted to get the potentially huge, lucrative contract to implement “Intelligent Mail.”

Part of the argument used the examples of overnight mail services by USPS, FedEx, and other couriers that already record sender & recipient data. BFD. Those are also hugely expensive ways of sending stuff. Plus, the volume of private regular mail makes the logistics of I.M. completely bozo on its face. But, the Suits will never pass up a $$$ opportunity. Selling out our privacy notwithstanding (for ZERO gain in security).

In all honesty I can’t take credit for my comment in #57. After I posted it and was really pleased with my sense of humor, I realized I was plagarizing Anchorman: The Legend of Ron Burgundy. I suck.

Brian Fantana: [Talking about Veronica] I’ll give this little cookie an hour before we’re doing the no-pants dance. time to musk up.
[opens cologne cabinet]
Ron Burgundy: Wow. Never ceases to amaze me. What cologne you gonna go with? London Gentleman, or wait. No, no, no. Hold on. Blackbeard’s Delight.
Brian Fantana: No, she gets a special cologne… It’s called Sex Panther by Odeon. It’s illegal in nine countries… Yep, it’s made with bits of real panther, so you know it’s good.
Ron Burgundy: It’s quite pungent.
Brian Fantana: Oh yeah.
Ron Burgundy: It’s a formidable scent… It stings the nostrils. In a good way.
Brian Fantana: Yep.
Ron Burgundy: Brian, I’m gonna be honest with you, that smells like pure gasoline.
Brian Fantana: They’ve done studies, you know. 60% of the time, it works every time.
[cheesy grin]
Ron Burgundy: That doesn’t make sense.
Brian Fantana: Well… Let’s go see is we can make this little kitty purr.
[snarls]

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0357413/quotes

Ptooey Pelosi– sorry all Californians, but I was a taxpayer in CA a bit ago for awhile, but the entire country belongs to US. No offense meant and there should be no offense taken. I think this is precisely part of the problem!

Imagine if we took responsibility for all the peeps in the party that were elected nationwide. Ben Nelson, Olympia Snowe, all of the gang of 14 would be held to a higher standard. There is a real middle in this country; but it should be melded with the parties and not by just the hope of re-election. dammit, make them be true!

EPU,

“Maybe they will debunk the poll? I would try to discredit the competition. Let us know.”

They didn’t. Just quoted it and moved on.

Just a reminder:

Randi Rhodes and Ed Schultz on Larry King Live tonight talking about all this stuff…

Cujo359 – thanks

Here’s an interesting question:

Did the Washington Post charge the RNC to run this story?

If they did, it should have been labeled “advertisement”; if they didn’t shouldn’t they be required to report it as an (”in kind”) political contribution? I think they could defend running it in either case (it is, after all, their paper), but it would be interesting to ask them which horn they want to pick up.

–MarkusQ

Asstards!

AndyTiedye @ 3:44 pm (#64) – I think the real point is this – they’re smart people. Anything we could think of doing with that information, they could, too. And if that doesn’t scare you, give me your wallet and I’ll get it back to you tomorrow.

thanks for the Fobes links – it and the related aricles are pretty good.

BTW – is Snow’s “I won’t get ahead of my brief†going to replace McClellan’s “I can’t comment on ongoing investigations†??

And when will I ever see this poll?

Questions:
Telecom CEOs throughout the country have been given security clearances for the NSA program, but Department of Justice ethics lawyers were denied clearance. Do you think this is because:
a) the Government is acting illegally with the telecoms for profit and wants to cover up
b) the Government is acting legally and has nothing to hide, but ethics lawyers can’t be trusted
c) the terrorists have more contact with ethics lawyers than telecom CEOs
d) the Government is by now so chronically inept and incompetent nothing it does makes sense anymore
e) other.

Do you believe the President?
a) yes
b) no

Do you believe that if the President has committed crimes while in office that Congress should agree going in to the 2006 elections to not investigate those crimes and to not impeach?
a) yes
b) no

Should we do away with the requirement that Executive Branch agencies like the FBI and at the local level, police and sheriffs be required to get a warrant from a court and instead allow the good people working at each agency to independently decide what people and homes they think are a good idea to search?
a) yes
b) no

Should we do away with the requirement that Executive Branch agencies like the FBI and at the local level, police and sheriffs be required to get a warrant from a court to arrest American citizens and instead allow the good people working at each agency to independently decide what people should be arrested, when and how?

a) yes
b) no

If the FBI, NSA, police or other spying or law enforcement agencies are turned down for a warrant by a court, should they go ahead with searches, seizures and arrests anyway?
a)yes
b)no

If the FBI, NSA, police or other spying or law enforcement agencies think that they will probably be turned down for a warrant by a court, should they go simply not ask and go ahead with searches, seizures and arrests anyway?

a)yes
b)no

That didn’t take long!

Verizon Sued for Giving NSA Phone Records

TRENTON, N.J. – Two New Jersey public interest lawyers sued Verizon Communications Inc. for $5 billion Friday, claiming the phone carrier violated privacy laws by turning over phone records to the National Security Agency for a secret government surveillance program.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200…..ds_verizon

I just posted this on Post.blog
Just finished reading that article by Richard Morin and I truly must say what a load of crap!I don’t belive your figures for a minuite,I’ve not heard one person,NOT ONE,say anything in favor of this spying.Your just printing smokescreen to be quoted by the so called ‘radical right’.And radical it is.Absolutly un American,totalitarian crap.This administration can talk about freedon as much as they want,THEY ARE THE ONES TAKING IT AWAY!And you are helping.This is why I cancelled my online subscription,and will never give one dime to your partisan rag.

Posted by: DMM | May 12, 2006 06:48 PM
of course I ment it all in the best possable way.Not!

Mary @ 3:25 pm (#30) – What do you think the government’s chances are? Do they have a solid case? If you’ve answered that question already, just point me there.

And if the NSA is reading this(and they are)I got the big double F-finger for ya,buddy!

Prediction: when Russel Tice reveals an even greater assault by the NSA on our civil liberties on Monday, America will stare at its collective navel and do nothing. The gotcha moment, the complete victory, the Watergate resignation, the political cumshot no longer exists in American politics. We are not people. We are sheep.

Thanks Angie, and right back at ya!

On a lighter note.
OT, ya know Bush is in trouble when Mel Gibson turns against him …

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/12052…..-bush.html

This is interesting, and somewhat encouraging re: reporting. er, one reporter. Brief E&P article, so I’ll quote all but the last paragraph:
http://www.editorandpublisher……1002501824
==Who Is Leslie Cauley, Who Broke ‘USA Today’ Bombshell on NSA?

NEW YORK So who is Leslie Cauley, the reporter who broke the bombshell USA Today story on the National Security Agency’s phone records spying program?

Cauley, 48, who is on the “telecom†beat at USA Today, has been a business journalist for more than twenty years, spending nine years as a staff writer and editor for The Wall Street Journal in New York.

Last year, Simon & Schuster published her book, “The Rise and Fall of AT&T†after she had pursued the story for over a decade at the Journal and at USA Today.

One review noted that she had “earned a reputation for aggressive investigation of the numerous industry shake-ups — none more dramatic than AT&T’s headlong plunge as it misguidedly attempted to become a broadband leader….Filled with new and controversial material and peopled by a cast of characters worthy of a Shakespearean drama, this is the first book to chronicle this riveting tale.â€===

axlegrease,
I’m no damn sheep,I’m fighting and gonna continue to fight and don’t want to hear your defeatest drivel.

Mary @ 3:51 pm (#78) – Once again, wonderful questions that will never be asked.

Lets send the WaHoPo a truckload of kneepads.

Remind them the “Listening Class” (I love it!) has very big ears.

via Randi Rhodes – Karl Rove has told the White House he will be indicted and is resigning!
no online source yet….

DMN:
Sorry! TGIF!

peace dude,sorry,I’m a little snappy

FITZMAS?!?!?……

Thanks! that article just left me befuddled. Now I get it.

Old Coastie:

The Rove story is on Truthout.

don’t know if it’s fitzmas – can’t find confirmation…

“Rove Informs White House He Will Be Indicted”

per truthout http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/051206Y.shtml

News Flash!!!
Rove informed Bush he will be indicted and will resign his position on Monday!

HAPPY fITZMAS EVERYONE

eLetter to WaPoo moments ago:
_____

The Richard Morin headline article today on the “poll” purporting to show that ~2/3 of Americans support warrantless NSA phone transaction surveillance should properly have carried the banner “White House/RNC Paid Advertisment.” Did the Bush administration FORCE you to run that, or are you willing accomplices in the dissemination of such transparent partisan empirical balderdash?

jane fish – thanks… that dampens my enthusiasm somewhat…

so maybe the Bush Monday night speech is really for damage control about Rove? maybe give him a medal or sumtin?

I sure hope that’s true about Puke Rove.

VG #86: If the media replaced the national affairs frauds and courtiers and prostitutes with real reporters, BushCo would be gone within a year. Get some sports, fashion page, gardening, business, local crime beat, science, people in there, anybody but the current batch of corrupt lackeys.

…and let’s curb our enthusiasm about the Truthout article. Their sourcing is often pretty feeble…I wouldn’t risk my dogs life on the veracity of one of their stories…

Regarding that Rove resignation story…

Oh FUCK yeah!

I think the press conference is a diversion – create a whole new shitstorm…

A Rove resignation on monday would explain the decision by Bush to put up a prime time speech on a decisive issue at the same time to provide a distraction.

Rove indicted? Sounds too good to be true. But the late Friday PM timing makes me think maybe yes -though this story too big to hide with the Friday PM dogge, I think. The wheels of justice and karma grind very slowly, but they grind inexorably.

“Rove Informs White House He Will Be Indictedâ€

ya know, when you think about it, david shuster most certainly wouldn’t have speculated with such certainty if he hadn’t also been privy to these white house comments.

wanna bet nsa has a big fat file on jason leopold.

This is another article by the infamous Jason Leopold. He does not have a good track record for accuracy.

You have to think the stars line up for the presser/speech to be a diversion for double super bad news like losing your bestest friend to an indictment when he did nothing wrong. True, it is Leopold, but those stars………

Cujo – I have no read on the state secrets approach at all. In general, I can see where a court is going to want to give wide deference to the Govt. OTOH – uh, we have 30 or so corporate execs up to snuff on the program and it is hard to understand what the state secret part is? That there is a capability to get all information on all customers and customer transactions from telecoms if they co-operate? How is that a secret? That the govt IS actually doing such a thing – well, I can see that being secret, but not a “state secret†unless the state is fascist.

Covert govt surveillance activities of tens of millions of its own citizens just doesn’t seem to fit the bill in a democracy. Here’s what doesn’t get called in spades much. MOST criminals keep their crimes secret. The fact that something is kept secret doesn’t automatically make it something worth using the powers of the court to keep secret. Anyway – I have no background and it is an almost never invoked tidbit. I probably will try to pull up cases bc I am just that way (I think Urban Pirate summarized my life and times with “sadly funnyâ€). I don’t know if anyone else has a take on this or not. A judge that wants to play it safe probably dismisses and lets the plaintiffs try for appeal. ????

The link to the Truthout story on Rove:
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/051206Y.shtml

We won’t run with the Rove story until and unless we can confirm. I guess you all know that already.

:)

Has anyone ever seen Jason Leopold? I’ve only heard someone claiming to be him on the radio.

i quite agree with xyz at 107. this speech is timed too peculiarly to simply be what it is touted to be …

Remember, Leopold told us there would be 22 indictments last October.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/051206Y.shtml

“Jason Leopold”

*yawn* ; )

xyz 107

And why snowjob has postponed his first real gaggle until Tue am. Not an auspicious beginning for his new job, I’d say…

the bizzarre aspect of republican cultists like morin is why they do it (unquestioningly and unfailingly support the bushliar-criminal regime). How is it that they convince themselves that they’ll be exempt from the oppressors when America is a full blown facist state. Do they really think they have enough friends to turn in to keep themselves in good graces forever? Do they not realize that they’re part of the cult only so long as they’re useful?

Can they possibly be so arrogant as to not realize that the Consititution is protecting them, just like everyone else; lose the constitutioin and they’ve lost everything just like the rest of us.

is it blinding arrogance, staggering ignorance, or both?
.

Nothing on the wire feeds about a Rove indictment & resignation as yet.

I really don’t need any reason to go on a two day bender but,if you can confirm Rove is out, Helloooooo George Dickel!

*ilson46201-

delurking to ask question about Jason Leopold. I see a lot of criticism of him on this blog but I’m not familiar with his past inaccuracies. Any details on this?

Rove is scheduled for an 11am AEI speech on Monday. Only thing I see anywhere.

Tice’s Monday testimony could also be the reason for the Bush Propaganda Fest in prime time too.

-GSD

Also, I thought polls didn’t matter?

Lesley Blitzer is getting all a-flutter and astonished about the new poll showing the lying, philandering, pandering, sneaky and perjurious Slick Willy is more popular with Americans today than that regular-guy Commander-in-Chief President George W. Bush who saved us all from IslamoFascism !

1. Morin, as past inerviews demonstrate, is either a Bush operative, or simply a Kool-Ade drinker.

2. Bush’s NSA is gathering “external” telephone data from everyone, everywhere – within certain major carrier coverage areas.

3. Externals (Telephone numbers) can easily be crosschecked against other databases for further identification. It is not hard to imagine that calling circles would be labeled as favorable, or unfavorable to certain political organizations.

4. Morin calls certain numbers for his polling. How many were called (wasn’t it somewhere around 500?) and just who supplied him with the phone numbers? Considering just who we are dealing with, I am doubting that this was done with the same integrity as Harris, for example. Considering the track record of all the players in this administration, it is entirely conceivable that this poll is a shill among polls.

5. Call me conspiracy paranoid, call me a tinfoil hat wearer….but don’t be afraid to call me because I use T-Mobile who is not selling my calling records to Bush. :)

‘Dumbin-us Vobi-scum’

;>)

Can anyone even confirm that Fitz was at courthouse today? Seems with all those camera crews, and assuming Fitz would be required to use the front approach, we would have heard of his courthouse visit by now.

Did Fitz even need to go to the GJ tat the courthouse today for the indictment scenario described in the truthout article to have occurred?

I can’t quote chapter and verse on Jason Leopold but he’s never broken definitively any stories that I know of. Maybe others can be more debunking…he seems to mean well but lets his hopes and heart run ahead of his facts…

The Rove resignation may still be rumor,but I’ll tell you what is’nt.I just got my Fiengold progessive patriot”Don’t Spy on Me” T-shirt and it is as cool as I hoped it would be.I promise to wear it in the wingnuttiest settings I can find.

anon 85, Mel is nutty in his own special way, but he has never been as wingnutty as the wingers wanted him to be. Which is to say, the Kool-Aid he’s drinking isn’t from the GOP.

Mel is drinking from the Tridentine Fountain of reactionary religiosity

Morin: “Hello Mom? Would you support honorable and morally upright Christian President Bush if he wanted to wire tap a Taliban-Al Qaeda-Mafia-Hamas, rapist, pedophile with hepatitis and AIDS who never washes his private parts who was planning on blowing up an orphanage filled with handicapped Christian children?

Morin to pollster: “That’s one Yes, put it down”

Mary @ 4:11 pm (#112) – A judge that wants to play it safe probably dismisses and lets the plaintiffs try for appeal. ????

That’s pretty much what I’m afraid of. If the government’s case is weak enough, then that’s harder to do, but I’m guessing based on what little I’ve heard about these things that the EFF will have a rough row to hoe here.

i do not think he needed a courthouse visit; the deal is done (fingers are crossed white knuckled and in prayer)

“Red Rover, Red Rover, send Cheney, Rice, Bush and many more right over”

ruff-ruff!

signing off now, your loyal Patriot, Patrick J. Fitzgerald.

(a soul who delivers unconditional love and truth)

Oh C’mon.Most americans if shown the constitution would view it as some radical document.We’re ‘constitutionally challenged’.

I bet the NSA has the record of the call from Rove to Morin threatening to reveal some of the other calls Morin has made if he doesn’t play ball.

looks like Qwest to the largest hit today.

AT&T At 4:01PM ET: 25.62 Down 0.49 (1.88%)

VERIZON At 4:01PM ET: 31.79 Down 0.11 (0.34%)
after Hours (RT-ECN): 31.15 Down 0.64 (2.01%)

Qwest At 4:03PM ET: 6.48 Down 0.03 (0.46%)
After Hours (RT-ECN): 6.36 Down 0.12 (1.85%)

Jechia #138

Or the Sermon on the Mount, for that matter.

Take it from an old time statistican, Moron’s poll was deliberately slanted – there is no way that 500 telephoned inquiries can be extrapolated into something meaningful-I wouldn’t be surprised if he had the story ready to go the day before the “USA Today” piece was published—Moron must have some muscles from carrying all that water

I posted this at thinkprogress earlier – kinda surprised no one here has brought up this aspect of the WaPo/ABC poll..
I haven’t seen anyone mention this yet – but the reason this poll’s results are so off from what would seem possible might also have to do with who did the poll..
ABC credits the poll to TNS Intersearch Corporation in Pennsylvania. A little digging reveals this:
“TNS is one of the world’s leading market information groups. We provide market measurement, analysis and insight through our global network of operating companies in 70 countries. Working with national and multi-national organizations, we help our clients to develop effective business strategies and enhance relationships with their customers. In July 2003, the group merged with NFO WorldGroup, Inc. Further information on TNS can be found on http://www.tns-global.com.â€
TNS Intersearch is a unit of UK-based market research conglomerate Taylor Nelson Sofres.
according to Hoovers “TNS Telecoms, a unit of UK-based market research heavyweight Taylor Nelson Sofres, provides market data and research reports to clients in the telecommunications industry. The company’s primary clients are telecommunications service providersâ€
So the poll was done by a company whose primary client is telco’s.
not that they would have any interest in scewing a poll about how people feel about telcos …
http://www.hoovers.com/ tns-telecoms/ –ID__126280–/ free-co-factsheet.xhtml

Another thought – even if we assume the 502 were randomly selected from a nationwide pool and ignore the fact that the pollers work for telco’s, there’s another problem with this.
Someone on another board just had this to say:
“There is no such thing as a random telephone poll.

Here’s a statistic for you, 100% of people polled by telephone said they were ‘willing to participate in telephone polls’!

This is especially relevant here, since those that value their privacy are less likely to participate in telephone polls.â€

On top of that, the only people who have the time and desire to sit there and talk to unsolicited phone callers are insane.

How many people can you easily imagine telling unsolicited phone callers to piss off, or saying they just don’t have time to talk to this unscheduled caller? A lot, I’m guessing. People who have nothing better to do or even weirder yet enjoy taking polls are not an accurate representation of the general population.

a few years ago, some of us hippie rabble-rousers printed up the Declaration of Independence as a leaflet and handed it out at a local American Legion 4th of July Fireworks Display. The Legionnaires were telling folk to tear it up cause it was Commie propaganda…

(sadly, a true story)

Kathy Harris decides she needs to start packin:

WASHINGTON – U.S. Senate candidate Katherine Harris will spend the weekend in the Tampa Bay area where she will take a required class to reinstate a lapsed concealed weapons permit.

Harris, a congresswoman from Longboat Key, received threats when she was secretary of state during the bitter presidential recount in 2000. The threats were investigated by the FBI, and Harris said Thursday they have stopped.

“For me, I just want to have a permit in an overabundance of caution,” she said. “I want to go ahead with getting it for practical purposes.”

Bill Bunting, the Pasco County Republican leader and the course instructor, said he has been encouraging Harris for months to take the class.

“During the first Bush (presidential) election, people forget how quickly she had all those death threats on her life,” Bunting said. “You never know if there’s a nut out there.”

Nut OUT THERE? What about the nut IN THERE? Ya know the one packin the gun?

DJ DrZ – I know NPR has Dionne & Brooks, it’s just that you could hear brooks rising out of his chair to meet this one. And, as has been stated about other media, no questions about the source of the poll, the methodology, that it’s complete crap, etc.
Just Brooks being allowed to use it as proof that what the president’s doing is “okay by us.”

Morin is a hack. I read that “mad” chat when it first appeared and was astounded. As you probably know, Jane, nearly every other subsequent WaPo chat, with Kurtz, Froomkin, and the rotating Post Politics crew, featured a question from a reader about Morin. Nearly every other WaPo reporter said they didn’t know why Morin reacted the way he did.

My problem with Morin – if a majority of your readership is asking about impeachment, obviously there’s a public interest. And regardless of the possibility of Bush actually getting impeached, if the populace wants to see him impeached, and Congress will not do so, that’s a story!!! The obvious story is that the Congress does not reflect, and will not act, on the will of the people! That’s pretty important stuff when it comes to an issue of that magnitude.

BTW, Froomkin briefly skewered Morin’s methodology in his column today.

Awesome post, Jane. Like many others, I suspect, I had the same thoughts when I saw the article last night — and Morin’s name attached to it.

Thanks for doing the research and writing to articulate what we all felt.

http://news.yahoo.com/photos/s…..hdg–

Check out this photo of Ticky Dicky “fallin asleep” at another meeting today.

Has anyone checked to make sure that Ticky didn’t croak a month or so ago? Maybe aides are just movin his rotting corpse from room to room.

here’s a ianal theory: fitz didn’t go to the grand jury because he didn’t need to. the goods are all sewn up. the indictment’s still pending only because rove has been spending this last week working out a cooperation deal and plea bargain.

hangin’ the veep out to dry is hard work, heh.

I hope, as Jason Leopold says, that Fitz can add an obstruction charge to whatever perjury charges he’s got in store for KKKKarl (assuming all this is true – we’ll find out soon enough, I guess).

But if Rove’s been obstructing justice along with Libby, poor Fitz! With all that sand in his face, it’s gonna take forever for him to figure out how to prove the underlying charge, isn’t it? Not that I doubt he’ll eventually be able to ferret out the entire crime and all the criminals involved. He always does.

One more thing – I know it’s premature, but woo HOO! GO GET ‘EM FITZ!

David Brooks is such a pathetic shill for these liars.

Has there been any news AT ALL about Fitz today?

Isn’t there another Libby hearing scheduled on the `16th?

Maybe Fitz wants to get the Libby evidentiary issues tied up before the frog march?

Cnn Poll: Clinton beats Bush in every category

Jason Leopold via TruthOut is reporting Rove told the WH that he is being indicted and he will resign when it is officially annouced next week!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I just heard them discussing that Bush might be planning to deploy troops to protect the border. Now what do you suppose that is the first step to ….?

Now for the trials and the convictions… and of course the pardons….

Angel 144
The company’s primary clients are telecommunications service providersâ€
So the poll was done by a company whose primary client is telco’s.
Really? That is great digging. Other v.gd. info in your post too – thanks.

do not let darkblack play w/Latin again!

diabolical, that one is. methinks I’ve got the vapors, laughing so hard!

And isn’t the DaVinci Code and Opus Dei onscreen tonight? topicallity my man….

Leopold sometimes comments here and at tnh; sometimes under his own name, sometimes not. He frequently uses unnnamed sources and is already on the record that Rove has received a target letter from Fitz before his last GJ appearance. There are numerous problems with Leopold’s alleged scoop. 1. It would be unusual for Fitz and most prosecutors to issue a target letter before a GJ appearance. 2. It would be really unusual for a defense attorney to let his client go before a GJ after receiving a target letter. 3. Rove’s attorney, gold bars Luskin, denied receiving the target letter. Why would Luskin lie about something that could get him disbarred? 4. Normally when Fitz issues a target letter, the indictment follows that day. 5. Leopold has an “exclusive” on this stuff. If you were going to “leak” such dynamite material that everyone wants, why would you leak it only to Leopold? 6. Leopold’s leaks invariably tell his readers what they want to read.
Jane and Christy (and Pach and guest posters) never use unnamed sources and they always link. They never overplay what they know. If they aren’t sure, they tell us. Among a constellation of reasons, I think FDL traffic continues to grow at such a tremendous rate, because Jane and Christy have earned our trust with unfailing accuracy, over thousands of posts and comments.
OT: The longer the interval between Rove’s last GJ appearance and his indictment, the more it sounds as though Rove dug himself in even deeper with new lies testimony. Fitz has to check Rover’s latest excuses, plus Fitz has to filter any new info he got from Rove through all the previous testimony and evidence he has already accumulated.

“Morin”, it’s only one vowell off.

rwcole – Team Libby did file a supplemental memorandum today to follow up on the 5-5 conf.

Sorry if I missed it, but has it been confirmed that the GJ even met today?

DefJef (#156)

“Jason Leopold via TruthOut is reporting Rove told the WH that he is being indicted and he will resign when it is officially annouced next week!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”

yeah, i heard that, too.

uh-oh, i’ve said too much.

darkblack 129

‘Dumbin-us Vobi-scum’

can you do one with the compliant press and call it Dominate-Is Pro-Biscuit?

dominate-us, not -is

Read an analysis of the Washington Post poll based upon the “terror management theory” and how it may impact the strategy for the upcoming midterm elections here:

http://www.thoughttheater.com

FTIZMAS is at hand. Break out the champers!

After we (the public) go to all the trouble and expense to try and convict Rove, how long does King George have to wait to pardon him? Can he do it immediately before we have the satisfaction of seeing Karl’s ass hauled of to the slammer? (Head slap) Oh, wait a minute, since when do laws and rules apply to His Majesty? I have the sinking feeling we lose no matter what. :-(

So excited I couldn’t even type FITZMAS! Dancing and typing don’t mix.

DefJef– and no disrespect to anyone here but to these craven humans who think themselves demigods or better IF they can read:

>>>>>>>>>>>>

Look at all my trials and tribulations
Sinking in a gentle pool of wine
Don’t disturb me now I can see the answers
Till this evening is this morning life is fine

THE END…

Hey, punks.. new thread. ;-)

for all we know, the Preznit’s Big Speech on Monday will actually be to announce the pardoning of Karl Rove (and maybe Scooter too)

Have to watch Larry King because Randi Rhodes won’t be able to keep quiet about Rove.

John Dean just on with Keith now.

Started to watch Washington Week, and gave up when Martha Raddatz said, (1) it appears most people support the program, (2) most people seem to think it is legal, (3) that’s why this seems to have died down somewhat…Martha must not get out of her bubble much. I could sort of understand if she’s not reading the blogs, but some pretty familiar names have been out there in the MSM saying some very negative things about this, so the blinders are on.

Am still waiting for some media voice to articulate that we do not decide whether things are legal or not, or whether people should follow the law or not, on the basis of polls.

Am still waiting for a media voice to articulate that the president cannot hide behind polls and use them as a substitute for oversight and judgment as to the legality of the program.

Heard someone whose name I didn’t catch on either Hardball or Situation Room, talking about how this kind of program is not likely to be one that actually catches any terrorist, that it is more likely to be a program that allows a retrospective confirmation that someone who was suspected all along is a likely terrorist. This person made the point that if this program, which has been in place for almost 5 years, had been responsible for the capture of any terrorists, the government would have trotted them out and extolled the virtues of this thing long ago.

Story on Rove doesn’t sound legit.

Redd spoke some time ago about sealed indictments- as I recall- they don’t happen often and only under very specific circumstances.

Doesn’t make sense either for rove to announce his resignation on a monday. HE would have done it today and let it die over the weekend.

Casper: yes. worry.

Here’s my analysis of how NSA goofed and a proposed solution to protect civil liberties. Still means someone needs to get indicted for privacy violations.

baked potato sez “Not that Bushism and Nazism are the same in all respects, mind you….”

That’s true, in other respects they are like the mafia…

And why does the MSM even pick up such statistical manipulations done by nimrod political operatives like Richard “the Dickster” Morin anyway?

I haven’t seen anyone mention this yet – but the reason this poll’s results are so off from what would seem possible might also have to do with who did the poll…

ABC credits the poll to TNS Intersearch Corporation in Pennsylvania. A little digging reveals this:

“TNS is one of the world’s leading market information groups. We provide market measurement, analysis and insight through our global network of operating companies in 70 countries. Working with national and multi-national organizations, we help our clients to develop effective business strategies and enhance relationships with their customers. In July 2003, the group merged with NFO WorldGroup, Inc. Further information on TNS can be found on http://www.tns-global.com.â€

TNS Intersearch is a unit of UK-based market research conglomerate Taylor Nelson Sofres.
according to Hoovers “TNS Telecoms, a unit of UK-based market research heavyweight Taylor Nelson Sofres, provides market data and research reports to clients in the telecommunications industry. The company’s primary clients are telecommunications service providersâ€

So the poll was done by a company whose primary client is telco’s.

Not that they would have any interest in scewing a poll about how people feel about telcos right?

http://www.hoovers.com/tns-tel…..heet.xhtml

It might be fun if people picked some interesting fellows and everybody gave them a ring, just once, to say hello, and to get a rise out of our totalitarian overlords. For instance, there’s a gentleman in Saudi Arabia named Osama A. El Kereiji at +1-966-3-834-4357. We could promote international understanding, while we help make the world’s biggest database even bigger!

SCREW WAPO!

I’ve seen Morin’s “mad, madder, maddest” clip before, and I have to say it’s hilarious. I’m reminded of all those Bearnstein Bears stories I read to my kids. Morin’s a pinhead and exemplifies Republican dufosity — refusing to see bad news or conflicting opinions. The bubble is destroying these people.

Leopold is not doing us any favours with his bs.
Corroboration is the lifeblood of true investigative journalism. That said the W/house has to have wargamed a scenario roughly similar to that described. Leopold actually seems to include at least two critical points of W/house spin.

‘…But since Rove testified two weeks ago, the White House has been coordinating a response to what is sure to be the biggest political scandal it has faced thus far: the loss of a key political operative who has been instrumental in shaping White House policy on a wide range of domestic issues.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/051206Y.shtml

AND…

Some White House staffers said it’s the uncertainty of Rove’s status in the leak case that has made it difficult for the administration’s domestic policy agenda and the announcement of an indictment and Rove’s subsequent resignation, while serious, would allow the administration to move forward on a wide range of issues…’

See how they want to frame Rove and all his associations as DOMESTIC only. This is the spin that Rove had nothing to do with any Supreme crime involving his sock puppet, the Chimperor.
That Rove could not have set up any genocidal world war criminal because, der…he was just some DOMESTIC help. Nothing to see here, etc.

This spin amounts to a continuation of a criminal cover-up and further obstruction of justice. All those partaking in it ( I’m talking to you Dan Bartlett ) better have nothing to do with it. If they know whats good for them.

My gods, Jane, you remember Carol Doda’s flashing nipples?

I was once a DJ at the Condor, around the end of the Doda days. Wow, nostalgia…

I don’t personally believe that Morin and his fellow Big media weenies are part of a massive propaganda effort to sell Americans on the benefits of a police state. But what I don’t understand is why they keep acting like they are.

Having witnessed the whole L’Affaire Colbert fiasco, especially the mostly media-based audience’s extreme discomfort during his skit and its subsequent massively conspicuous act of pretending that IT NEVER HAPPENED, I’m no longer surprised when I see the MSM coalescing around the latest simpleminded meme du jure. That is, the latest oh so safe and convenient spin on the latest BIG STORY that looks and sounds authoritative and definitive, but which is in fact an overly simplistic, innacurate and often dishonest take on a story that most of them barely even know the first thing about beyond the headlines that everyone else has ready access to.

Colbert threw this lazy, dishonest and shameful practice right back in their faces, which is obviously why they couldn’t bring themselves to laugh at his skit, and why they then consciously chose to pretend that the whole thing never happened. Deep down, they all knew that they do this (well, the smarter ones among them at least, who are obviously the most despicable among them because they should know better), and so ran away from it in terrified denial.

Well, the same thing’s happening with this week’s emerging NSA phone record scandal. Before all the facts and expert legal opinions are in, before they’ve had the chance to consult with legal experts and do some proper research and wait for more polls to come out, the majority of the MSM has already decreed that this program is perfectly legal and that the majority of Americans support it, based on little more than a dishonest poll and the legal opinion of the administration and its VRWNM proxies.

Why? Do they really believe this? I have no idea. Are they doing this to please or shill for the administration? I suppose, in some cases, this is probably going on (besides Fox, Limbaugh and wherever else the knuckledraggers get their “news” from). Are they afraid of being denied access if they spin this in a way that reflects poorly on the administration? I’m sure this too is going on. But my gut feeling is that, for the most part, they’re doing this because it’s EASY, it’s SAFE, it’s FUN, and no one’s going to call them on it–until now, that is.

Which is why, of course, they freaked out when Colbert threw their “truthiness” right back at them, and why they have such contempt for (i.e. fear of) the blogosphere. They’re finally being called out for their lazy, dishonest, sheepish, uninformed, kiss-up and shameful impersonation of actual journalists, and they’re scared shitless.

Thankfully, like the blogosphere that had long since given up on them, so is the public, which, if Bush’s approval ratings are any indication, no longer believes the lies and spin, even if delivered by the stentorian voices of authority and blow-dried hairstyles on CNN and MSNBC, and the pompous and self-important reporters and editorialists of the New York Times and Washington Post.

The MSM is becoming so passe. And their declining ratings show it.

I should just add, Martha Raddatz echoed the same exact meme on Washington Week in Review on PBS Friday night, and no one challenged her on it. They just accepted it as an indisputible truth and moved on. And she’s someone whom I generally find to be a good and respectable journalist. Perhaps I need to pay closer attention to her from now on (or not, if it turns out that I was wrong).

Or, perhaps, this was just indicative of the sort of egregious lapse in professionalism and good judgement that so many in the MSM seem prone to these days. I’m glad some of us are keeping them honest. Hopefully, they’ll start to pay attention and not get so defensive, and maybe they’ll actually learn a thing or two and start earning their paychecks again.

The Washington Post is just like the New York Times. Dinosaurs. Old grey ladies? No, just horrible, pathetic corpses of a media defunct, a journalism jaundiced with lies, cronyism and moral cowardice. They are garbage. I only read them to see what the propaganda machine feels it needs to regurgitate today.

Oh–but wait–of course anyone here sending these messages opposing Morin must be also opposing Bush and therefore you must all be in need of psychiatric evaluation!!

**
New York City National Lawyers Guild
Legal Observer Listserv
[From:”The World Can’t Wait! Drive Out the Bush Regime!”]

Judge Orders World Can’t Wait Activist to Jail Psych Unit
CAROL FISHER REMAINS STRONG AND UNAPOLOGETIC

May 9: Judge Timothy McGinty forcibly incarcerated Carol Fisher in the psych unit of the Cuyahoga County Jail in downtown Cleveland, where she now sits for an indefinite period of time.

In a hastily called hearing yesterday, Judge McGinty made a highly unusual and outrageous decision to force Carol to undergo a state psychological exam as part of her pre-sentencing investigation. From the very start of Carol’s case, the judge has openly said that she must have mental problems for resisting an unlawful and brutal encounter with Cleveland Heights police. He went even further in yesterday’s hearing, saying that her opposition to the Bush regime makes her “delusional.”

The small courtroom on the 21st floor of the Justice Center was ringed with 5 armed court bailiffs. McGinty started off the hearing by making Carol stand up and had one of her attorneys read her t-shirt, which said:

“Wanted for Illegally Crossing Borders: The Bush Regime
“If you are going to insist that crossing borders illegally is a crime which cannot be tolerated, how about George Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Condoleezza Rice (and yes, Colin Powell) and the rest of that gang, with their highly illegal, and violent, ‘crossing of the border’-into Iraq, among other places?!”

McGinty then said this was proof of her delusion! He also kept saying Carol “wants” to go to jail, and that she has a “martyr complex.” When Carol tried to explain why she wouldn’t take this test, the judge’s only response was, “I do not negotiate with felons.”

Does Carol really want to go to jail? No! But she is not willing to comply with a vindictive court ordered test to “prove” her sanity. And more than that, she is taking a stand for everyone who is angry and fearful of a government that, under the rubric of “national security and the war on terror,” willfully and unapologetically tramples on the most basic rights of privacy. Think about this in light of the NSA spying scandal, and now Bush wants to install the head of the notorious NSA to be CIA chief! As Carol said before she went to jail, “I’d be crazy to go along with this shit! That which you will not resist and mobilize to stop, you will learn–or be forced–to accept.”

Just look at this whole case: a woman posts a “Bush Step Down” poster on a telephone pole, being brutalized by the police in the process, and now not only faces 3 years in prison but also a mandatory psych exam. As Terry Gilbert, one of Carol’s attorneys said, “This is Gulag stuff–saying that people who are dissidents are crazy.” He further added that in his 33 years of practicing law, he has never seen anything like this.

Is this the kind of country you want to live in?

On the phone this morning, Carol Fisher stated that, in addition to sending her to the psych unit, McGinty has also put her on “suicide watch”! They have taken away her eyeglasses. And if she refuses the psych exam, she will be forcibly sent to North Coast Mental Institute for a 20 day evaluation.

Legal challenges are continuing, including seeking a writ of habeas corpus.

When the transcripts are available to the public, they will show how outrageous this hearing was.

WHAT YOU CAN DO:

Donate to Carol’s legal defense. It costs a lot of money to get transcripts, file appeals, etc. Make checks payable to Carol Fisher Defense Fund and mail to NION/WCW PO Box 609034 Cleveland, OH 44109. Call Judge Timothy McGinty and express your outrage: 216-443-8758 Join us at a “Speak Out!” for Carol Fisher – Saturday, May 13 at 7pm at the corner of Coventry and Euclid Heights Blvd in Cleveland Heights. Get your legal organization to be part of Carol’s defense: make statements, file friend of the court briefs, etc. Have your church group, school group, organization or club join this battle by sending statements of support, donating funds, etc. Request radio stations play any of the following songs, dedicate it to Carol Fisher and explain what is going on with her case: Tom Pettys Wont Back Down Pearl Jams World Wide Suicide Pinks Dear Mr President Neil Youngs Lets Impeach the President Write letters to the editor of: The Cleveland Plain Dealer. Go to website:
http://www.cleveland.com/plaindealer/lettertoeditor The Cleveland Free Times. Email: editor@freetimes.com The Sun Press. Email: sun@sunnews.com Send this article to your list serves and post to blogs. Join the World Can’t Wait- Drive Out the Bush Regime!
Contact: World Cant Wait, Cleveland 216-633-6200
PO Box 609034 Cleveland OH 44109
cleveland@worldcantwait.org
http://www.worldcantwait.org

Assume anything sent by email is not secure.

Nancy Pelosi has sworn that Bush will never be impeached as long as she’s in office. So what’s the big deal here? The pollster is completely right:

–The Republicans are against impeachment
–The Democrats are against impeachment

Why should he poll on impeachment? Waste of time, yes? When are you idiots going to wake up and realize that the Democrats are not on your side?

Pelosi has NOT “sworn that Bush will never be impeached as long as she’s in office”. I challenge you to show me where she did this in this article or anywhere else.

What she did say was:

“the party will not seek to impeach President Bush even if it gains control of the House in November’s elections”

“impeachment is off the table…not interested in pursuing it”

“impeachment would not be a goal of the investigations, but…You never know where it leads to”

None of this can be interpreted as a vow to never impeach Bush. She’s just saying that right now, it is not her intention to impeach Bush, and is not expecting to impeach Bush. But, as the last quote above clearly indicates, impeachment is NOT something she’s ruled out, either.

Clearly, she’s pushing the possibility of impeachment off to the side for tactical reasons, so it doesn’t give Repubs a reason to rally its base. But I’d be really surprised if she wouldn’t give the order to go for impeachment if the conditions were right. And I’d be shocked if, deep down, she doesn’t want to impeach the bastard–as does every REAL Democrat.

Don’t put words in peoples’ mouths just to prove a foundationless point. It’s dishonest, lazy and weak, and destroys your credibility.

Take This Back To It’s Source

The Washington Post’s parent comapany, The New York Times, spiked the story of the WIRETAPPING in 2004. The feigned outrage had a year in the making and is reported like it was new news in December. The Washington Post, The New York Times and The Boston Globe have a lot at stake by not admitting they are “media whores for Bush”. As far as VERIZON is concerned, I’ll gladly pay the penalty fee and dump their cell-phone service. They don’t give a damn about selling out their long time users.

#146 RE: KHarris . . . Oh THAT’S what she keeps in her gigantic bosom! LOL

How much clearer can it be?

*explanation* — guess first before you peek!

Who gets to make up the questions?

BACKINUSSA…

(AG apologies to the Beatles / Back in USSR)

Drove in from Miamied Speech, (DOA-see!)
Didn’t get to bed last night
Oh, the way the paper flag was in my Tea
Man, I had a “NO-FLY” flight
I’m back in the USSA
You can’t say how “lucky” you are, boy
Back in the USSA, yeah

Been away so long I hardly know the place
Gee, it’s sad to be back home
Leave it till tomorrow to make my case
Honey doncha use this phone
I’m back in the USSA
You can’t say how “lucky” they are, boy
Back in the US
Back in the US
Back in the USSA

Well the Ukraine polls really knocked me out
They leave the west behind
And Moscow’s vote make me think about
OUR “Red”state’s always on my my my my my my my my my mind
Oh, come on
Hu Hey Hu, hey, ah, yeah
yeah, yeah, yeah
I’m back in the USSA
You don’t know how lucky you are, boys
Back in the USSA

Well the Ukraine Vote really clocks me out
They leave the west behind
And Moscow’s rights make me wonder about
OUR Georgia’s always on my my my my my my my my my mind

Oh, show me round your $now jobbed
mountin’ way down south
Take me to you Daddy’s $marm
Let me hear your “Bush-I-Like”-uhs ringing out
Come and keep your “Rapture” warm
I’m back in the USSA
Hey, You can’t say how $ucky they are, boy
Back in the USSA
Oh, let ‘em $ell you WarFair Honey…

It is high time to take back AMERICA!
If you at all believe in the laws that our founding fathers created, I urge you to see the trailers for Arron Russo’s new film to be released in July called
America From freedom To Fascism.
http://www.freedomtofascism.com/
Do it now before it is mandated by YOUR government that you must have a Veri Chip implanted in YOUR body. Do it now and stop the Federal Reserve as well as the I.R.S!

Uh we need to bring the US Government to swift justice, and their corporate newswhores too!

fluff up the feather pillows baby!

Get a Brain Morans
Morin

“impeachment would not be a goal of the investigations, but…You never know where it leads toâ€

None of this can be interpreted as a vow to never impeach Bush. She’s just saying that right now, it is not her intention to impeach Bush, and is not expecting to impeach Bush. But, as the last quote above clearly indicates, impeachment is NOT something she’s ruled out, either.

Shorter: 2006 “No impeachment” = 2001 “No war plans on my desk”.

—

http://chefsaraskitchen.blogsp…..-bush.html

Yeah hell. I was talking with my 68 year old Mom and I said were in the world do they get these people how are polled. She said that they have them locked in a room on a feeding tube and just ask them the questions. Hella funny. But your right folks are getting it. Finally.