
I don’t know about everyone else, but I am sick and tired of being told that I can’t handle the truth of what is being done in my name by the Bush Administration and the Rubber Stamp Republican Congress. Here’s some truth for you: our government was set up by our Founders to have a separation of powers, which would ensure some checks and balances via oversight and constant debate and questioning, so long as it was functioning properly.
The last few years, the Rubber Stamp Republican Congress has given the Executive Branch a big, fat pass on oversight — and as a result, they have become merely an extension of the bloated executive power grab.
Nowhere has this become more evident than in national security matters, where deference to the actions of the Bush Administration has become one big, fat rubber stamp — which is putting our values and the security of our nation over the long-term in danger.
Torture detainees? You betcha, and we won’t do anything other than ask surface questions until the media moves on to the next story. Decimate the military with piss poor decisions that stretch them too thin, use up the national guard assets until they are squeezed dry and play numbers games with recruiting to hide the ball from the public? Check. Revive the discredited Total Information Awareness program to syphon in every bit of US citizen communication without following the FISA laws, spitting on the Constitution and our Bill of Rights in the process? You betcha.
Look, I’m as worried as the next guy about national security issues — especially considering how badly the Bush Administration has stirred up hornet’s nests all over the world with their mismanagement in Iraq and their horrid practice of non-diplomacy and lack of forethought everywhere else.
But I’m also more than aware of what an abuse of power can do to the overall integrity of the process, having spent time in the middle of our judicial system throughout my legal career. When you have consistent abuses of power, over and over, unchecked and unquestioned, there cannot help but be damage done — long-term damage, which will take years beyond this Administration to ever begin to regain.
Glenn has a fantastic post today on the recent revelations on the vastness of the illegal NSA domestic spying program. Building on what Jane was saying last night in her superb post on the latest Bush Administration maneuver to hide the ball from any oversight (even from its own Justice Department), Glenn points out an obvious problem with the latest news about this NSA mess:
That has all changed. We now learn that when Americans call their Aunt Millie, or their girlfriend, or their psychiatrist, or their drug counselor, or their priest or rabbi, or their lawyer, or anyone and everyone else, the Government is very interested. In fact, they are so interested that they make note of it and keep it forever, so that at any time, anyone in the Government can look at a record of every single person whom every single American ever called or from whom they received a call. It doesn’t take a professional privacy advocate to find that creepy, invasive, dangerous and un-American….
One of the disturbing aspects of the NSA warrantless eavesdropping program was that it was seen by many intelligence professionals as a radical departure from the agency’s tradition of not turning its spying capabilities on the American public domestically. The program disclosed yesterday decimates that tradition by many magnitudes. This is a program where the NSA is collecting data on the exclusively domestic communications of Americans, communicating with one another, on U.S. soil — exactly what the NSA was supposed to never do.
I don’t pretend to understand the technical aspects of all of this, but the folks who do have some knowledge of the tech involved are appalled.
As Lambert writes at Correntwire:
All these stories are always careful to say voice and email when describing the nature of the program, but always veer off into describing voice only.
But I care a lot more about email, than voice. Why? Because I do my Democratic politics digitally, in email, not by voice. And given what we know about the Bush administration’s behavior so far… Well, what do you think?
Great summary, that raises some interesting questions, including the big one: what, exactly, is the Bush Administration doing with data on every single phone call and every single e-mail we’ve been sending out? Zonk at Slashdot has more on some of the tech questions involved, and Forbes reports that Sen. Arlen Specter — the GOP’s favorite tempest in a teapot CYA boy — will be holding hearing to speak to the communication’s company heads to find out what has been going on.
Here’s my suggestion: hold some real hearings, with teeth and subpoenas for a change. If ever an Administration needed some serious ass sunshine to blast out the creepy, crawly underside of all their festering, smarmy, hidden nooks and crannies, it is this one.
You want to perform as service to your nation? Insist that our Constitution be honored and demand real answers. And when you don’t get them, hold the Bush Administration accountable until you get them — do your damn jobs for a change, instead of leaving all of us hanging. (Or hanging up, since our personal NSA minders are apparently tracking our every call and e-mail. And that includes everyone in Congress — how does that make you feel, Senator?)
The FISA laws were written for a reason — and the prohibitions on the NSA doing any domestic spying have been honored for years because this nation of ours valued our system of laws and our commitment to liberty. That George Bush and his malignant band of cronies have just shoved the FISA laws, the Constitution, and the Bill of Rights to the side like so much trash is appalling enough. The fact that the Republicans in Congress have allowed them to do so — by politicizing the Intelligence Committees in both houses and refusing to do the essential oversight hearings that might have actually raised appropriate questions on this illegality; by abdicating their oversight responsiblities as required by their oath to protect the Constitution and uphold our system of checks and balances; by essentially making their own jobs obsolete because they have functioned as nothing more than a rubber stamp for every Bush Administration program that has come down the pike…well, it’s unforgiveable.
Whatever threats have been made to ensure their complicity — either that Rove will turn off the donor tap or something else beyond that — Republicans run Congress and it is high time they started acting like a separate branch of government. Being too weak to hold oversight hearings, and too accommodating to ask the tough questions or issue subpoenas or even put the Attorney General under oath to answer questions is not good enough. Either do your jobs, or stop taking my tax dollars as part of your paychecks — because you sure as hell aren’t earning your salaries.
I expect better. So did our Founders. Shame on them — it’s time for some redemption, though, and some hearings which demand honest and thorough answers. The American public deserves nothing less. It is high time for some truth.
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Colbert!
Fitz!!!
Fitz!
Fitz me close and Fitz me fast
The magic spell you cast, This is la vie en rose
When you Fitz me heaven sighs, And tho I close my eyes
I see la vie en rose
(Jack’s version!)
EPU’d, but Bush is apparently about to talk about the NSA issue in a couple of minutes.
Nice, Dru– thanks for my second grin of the day!
Love that Jack!
Call your telecom company and ask for a refund. Why should you pay to be spied on?
Verizon: 800-870-9999
Pending confirmation of the facts in the USAToday article, isn’t it time that progressives, liberals, libertarians, paleocons, and others across the spectrum who have expressed alarm at NSA domestic spying band together to make Qwest the instantly most successful telecom in the country?
All this news is very disturbing, and leads one to the conclusion that the Bush Administration is doing all it can to establish a Stalinist bureaucracy that does what it wants and fends off any investigation (by Congress) or judicial review (by the courts). Blocking the DOJ from investigating the NSA’s domestic spying program is a very bad sign indeed, as is the admission (to Qwest) that NSA did not go to FISA because FISA would not have given approval. This country is moving rapidly in a bad direction.
bush making statement
regretably, a large segment of our body politic finds direction by running away from fear as opposed to running toward something positive. and the fear has to be almost primal; a big ugly threat that sits in the living room and watches NASCAR and WWF with you.
it is time to redefine ‘us vs them.’ let’s use what they’re comfortable with.
what can we make them fear about republicans?
our civil liberties? too vague; not a lot of NASCAR traction here.
the war on terror? how about the fear of losing the war on terror? these guys can’t anything right, you trust them to do this? we’ve had some great war time democrat presidents. let’s become the war time democrats. warrior democrats. it’s got a ring to it.
fear of being cheated. nobody likes to be cheated. republicans are cheats. they take your money and give it to their rich friends. not corporations, friends. corporations is a vague word. use country club members, skiing buddies and friends from Boca. keep it in the living room.
fine, you don’t like queers getting married. are gays making it more expensive for you to fill up your bass boat? when has a gay person effected your family budget? thinking twice about making the trip to Branson this year. blame the republicans. don’t fear the blame game.
impeaching the chimp. it would be counter productive and nobody wants that now. bullshit. what have you got to hide? go offensive! nobody likes a liar and a cheat. everybody wants a hero. make this guy a target and go after him. and don’t feel bad about it. when has the republican party ever passed on the opportunity to be ruthless?
liars. cheats. hypocrites. they think you’re stupid.
simple powerful words that ring of truth. and just keep hammering at every opportunity that comes on the horizon. let’s get ruthless.
I wonder if the Bush administration is reading Fitzgerald’s emails.
I wonder if they read Kerrey’s emails leading up to to the 2004 election.
If I had to bet my life on the answer, I would guess yes to both.
Lying Monkey Says:
“After September the 11th.”
Only one word uttered before he brings that up.
-GSD
Here’s chimpy on TV – first sentence, envoke 9/11. so far, no denial…
…same BS – including that they have court approval.
he is so fucking shifty. he can hardly keep from smirking, as hard as he tries. so smug.
chimpy – “we’ve been successful preventing another attack on our soil.”
keeps saying “another attack”
walked off taking no questions.
I hate, hate, hate being lied to!
Answering no questions…………………….
9/11, terra, bs.
9/11 was on his tongue before he even got to the podium. Jesus!
He’s just flat fucking lying and daring people to prove otherwise.
EPU’d – but a kernel of a good idea down below
And the Dowager Empress of EPU makes her way to the thread -
Messenger
- not a clue, plenty of good candidates mentioned in the thread – although please darlings, promise me just once before I go, I can vote for someone other than a middle aged white guy
Message -
motivating folks to get to the polls
You Are The Decider – Vote !
Have never watched American Idol, but have a sense of how it works – and upwards of 25 million of our fellow citzens tuned in last night alone – Why can’t we use a Simon role model to get the millions of single women who stayed home last time to see that they have the power to knock off extremely powerful rich guys like Frist by mererly getting to the polls and pulling the lever ?!?!?!
a la CC Music Co. -
I’VE GOT THE POWER . . .
Bush criticizing the leak of the program, of course. Wonder how long we have to wait to see the leaker(s) in the dock?
Well, here is one of those “other programs” we knew had to be out there. How many more?
chimpy’s BS NSA speech summary:
9/11, al qaeda, attack, another attack, giant perch, polish sausage, another attack…
rizbiz,
That’s all perfectly true and if the rightwing wurlitzer hadn’t been shaping the image of their political opponents (that’d be us) in exactly these terms for the last decade, it might work. They’ve convinced the backwash that the left embodies everything that THEY ARE.
Orwell weeps…..
Criminals should go to jail.
I am still dumbfounded at the Democratic sneering at Feingold for demanding that some sort of censure debate take place. Russ Feingold, god bless your Wisconsin accent, the one guy who says this administration is lying, admitting it, openly flouting the most important laws safeguarding citizen privacy.
Is there a chance in heck Feingold could ever be president. Never, right?
Keepon Firedoglakeing in the free world
#
Evidently they’re not opening regular, old-fashioned mail, at least not within the U.S. They’ve always had the legal right to open mail entering from abroad, you know, foreign agents and all that. The whole situation begins to look more and more like czarist Russia: spys everywhere. The behavior of Congress is inexcusable. Since they (nearly all of them) have failed to practice constituional oversight, you might say they’re complicit. How can any honest, upright member of congress act as if it’s business as usual when every — EVERY — phone call and email is being registered. Don’t those people understand simple grammatical sentences anymore. The world changed not on September 11, 2001 but on December 12, 2000 when the Supreme Court voted to elect W president. Oh, we are in for a lot of shit and even a Democratic victory in November will not change anything. Does anyone think they really know how to end the Iraq horror show?
well, they are now afraid. they trotted out the king for an emergency statement.
at least he did not announce that major combat operations have commenced against Iran…yet.
So if I follow the latest logic…gee, we aren’t doing anything illegal even though we aren’t using the FISA system…and gee, we are talking to “some” members of congress…but they can’t tell you anything because the information is limited and totally classified….and gee, we are ok with some investigative oversight…but unfortunately we can’t grant security clearance to the investigators.
Gee…it looks to me like we have a dictator in charge. He breaks the rules, he rewrites the rules, he changes the rules, and he answers to no one.
I only hope we can soon finish exporting our “democracy” to Iraq and the rest of the oppressed world so they can have the same rights that we do.
more observations here:
http://www.thoughttheater.com
That speech took less than 3 minutes, but you know if he is responding this quickly to a morning newspaper report, someone is REALLY worried that this story is going to get traction.
The beauty of a large, seemingly unfocused NSA wiretapping, phone monitoring and email tracing program is that it is very easy to hide small, tightly focused surveillance within it. Anyone care to guess what types of surveillance Bush would be interested in.
Maybe legal investigators and political threats? Fitzgerald, Kerrey, etc…
And politicians who can be blackmailed to do Bush’s bidding? Leiberman and others…
OT – get your own GOP iPod.
From Gizmodo on GOP iPod:
wondering if anyone else has had this happen…
my dsl got very slow. I called Bellsouth… they wanted to send a tech to my home!! Mind you a tech did not come to install the dsl so I was curious as to why this problem… which apparantly was something they were doing… would require a tech visit to my home. I called the corporate headquarters about this since I could not get sense out of the customer service rep. The first lady was totally baffled when I asked if this had anything at all to do with NSA spying. The lady that called me back told me ” bellsouth does not have time to spy on their customers” and that bellsouth emphatically ” did not participate in the spying program”…. well *DUH LADY* looks to me like the send the tech to the homes ploy is probably very much a part of the deal. I told the lady that I did not want to continue any service if this issue required a tech visit… and I left and went to the gym for about an hour… and voila` low and behold… not nary a dsl problem on my return or since…..
spy related… my guess is yeah……. why not… so watch out other Americans… think quickly in all situations ….
we can call senate intelligence committee & complain bitterly:
main committee no.: 202-224-1700
Senator Rockefeller, vice-chairman
(202) 224-6472
(202) 224-7665 Fax
I posted the link to the USAToday story in the last thread and do so again here:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/w…..htm?csp=24
In brief, the NSA has a database of all domestic calls except those involving Qwest to Qwest customers(because Qwest refused to participate). What that means is that the NSA probably has all your calls in their database. They say that they just have the numbers but as the article points out crossreferencing with other databases can give names and addresses. The NSA also shares information with other agencies so it doesn’t necessarily stay just there. The NSA says it doesn’t monitor the call contents but this is not to say that they don’t record and store the call contents. This program could involve hundreds of millions of Americans. It is being done without court order or probable cause. And it is being run by the guy Bush wants to head the CIA.
Had enough?
If there was any doubt in anyone’s mind that this Administration is not only lawless but acts with infinite disdain of the law, this is it. It is so massive and so reckless. This is about the collection of information for the sake of collecting information. There is no evidence that the program has stopped or ever will stop any terrorist attacks. It has not made the country any safer. Indeed the program is itself about a big a threat to what it means to be an American as any I have ever seen. How exactly can this Administration claim it is defending our freedoms when it is so blatantly destroying them?
Had enough?
Is the president going to check on the progress of Trent Lott’s new porch?
Two great posts this morning, Redd.
As I watched Bush invoke his mantra a few minutes ago – “nine-eleven, nine-eleven, al quaida, nine-eleven..” I wanted to cry.
Has anybody here commented on the Ann Coulter Pslm Beach County voter regisatration weirdness?
As I have said many times, the War on Terror is a front for the War on Liberals and on the progressive movement. Bush & Co. are exploiting (in fact, apparently promoting) terrorism to scare Americans, especially liberals, from speaking out – among other goals related to their assault on the constitution.
The War on Terror is a fraud – an excuse for waging a domestic war on dissent and on liberals.
I dont know. Maybe we need a war on terrorists. But the whole way this maladministration is doing this is rather transparent, and it is absurd that no one in the media, and very few in the progressive media, are willing to speak this truth – that the entire War on Terror, as it is being waged by Bush Cheney, is a FRAUD.
Once this truth is widely understood, and the damage to the country widely appreciated, the Bush-Cheney machine will deflate like a cheap air mattress.
there’s gotta be a way to drive a wedge through the president and congress. i realize they are of the same party, but these congress critters are undercutting their own power and influence. when bush was flying high it was understandable but now it’s dumbfounding. bush has nothing to offer but these idiots keep knuckling under for him.
what will make them realize they are not acting in their own best interest? will bush have to disband congress all together before they wake up? it happened in peru, it could happen here…
Jesus Water SKiing Christ, just heard one of the insipid chuckleheads (MSNBC) state the Pres. had ‘reassured’ everyone that all NSA activities were legal – As F***ING IF !
I see a real gem in Glenn’s post although I’m not through his or Christy’s yet – but here ya go -
today at the grocery store, gas station, dry cleaners, soccer practice
find a non antagonistic way to talk about calls with your priest or rabbi, your kid’s doctor, your kid’s teacher, your mortgage company (all the places the average american expects privacy)
I got $1,000 the database being collected by the NSA is being “shared” amongst the DEA, FBI, ATF, etc… So while they say they dont need a warrant because its national security at stake, (a shaky justification for this truly astounding “fishing expedition”) in the end, the G gets some info. that ends up busting some poor college pot dealer. This is the most distugusting information i have read in a long time. I cant say i was surprised. In fact, gleen greenwald and many others here surmised “the program the president has acknowledged” was much more expansive than abu gonzales put on at the judiciary hearings.
I am so pissed at my phone company right now. I knew those corporate suckups could give one shit about their customers so long as the Gov. was happy. Our corporate fascist government cannot be hidden from the mainstream no longer. Let’s see the 31% stomach this. I can already hear the refrain , “If you have nothing to hide…” “G.W. just wants to catch terrorists.” I call bullshit and shenanigans on it all. We need a major demonstration and we need it soon. maybe even some serious civil disobedience on a large scale, not violent mind you, but property damage and arrests will be needed to get attention.
And to the NSA cock-smoker who is reading this in some archive three years from now – FU&% YOU! FU*# GEORGE BUSH! YOU ARE NOT PROTECTING THE COUNTRY YOU ARE IN FACT MOST DEFINATELY DESTROYING IT!! AND I HAD SEX WITH YOUR SISTER YESTERDAY AND BY YESTERDAY I MEAN TWO and 2/3 YEARS FROM THE TIME OF THIS WRITING – IN OTHER WORDS, TO YOU, JUST A FEW DAYS AGO. SHE SAID I WAS THE BEST SHE EVER HAD, PRESENT COMPANY INCLUDED!
Childish, i know but if someone actually reads it in 3 years or whatever, it will be worth it.
God help us all.
Good Christy post , that’s the way I think we should fire back, with hearts full of piss and vinegar!!!!!!!! Let it rip. There was a time for a subtle approach but that time has long passed. Fire from gut.
To Why #15,
Because that little word reminds us there’s hope. If you don’t like it, why don’t you just skip down to post #7 and start there every time?
The good news is that this is the gang that can’t shoot straight and their polls are in the shitter. I’ve been worried about being tossed down a memory hole (by mistake, of course) since three years ago when it became evident to me that the Bush administration had created a legal structure to do basically anything they wanted to anyone they felt they had to do it to. What has prevented the College Republicans from carrying out their fascist fantasy is that they are basically incompetent at anything other than stealing elections, and for that we need to be thankful.
What to me is more alarming is that there are Senators like Feinstein and Lieberman who seem to be at least partly sympathetic to the attack on Civil Liberties, at least to the point that they won’t take a strong stand. There is no excuse for the Democratic Party not standing up for the fourth amendment. No excuse for the Republicans either, but that’s another story.
In any event, the thug plan has been poorly executed. As Yogi Berra said, ‘In theory there is no difference between theory and practice; but in practice there is.’
Let us give thanks for (very) small favours.
“They’re just recording the data, not actually listening to calls or reading email”. But only four months ago, we were assured by the same people that the government was just tracking international calls and email, not domestic, oh no not at all.
Why should we believe them this time?
We should all call Bellsout and say we are going to cancel our sevice. That would get them rilled up.
Arlen Specter = Paper Tiger
Talks BIG, NEVER delivers.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05…..r=homepage
It’s the criminal’s dream — to have authority over whether or not your crimes are investigated.
Do you think Arlen Specter will actually get anything done on this front? Doubtful. He’s just a Rove spook. My guess is that Mr. Specter gets the “information” (wink wink) he is looking for behind closed door and is all of a sudden “satisfied with the explanation†without any public disclosure.
It’s easier to convince NASCAR Americans of something if they see that someone is against something (Specter) and then, suddenly, they say that they’ve had it “explained” to them and now they think it’s OK. hook… line… sinker…
EPU’d.
A fundamental issue that I see is that many voters don’t believe they can affect change and their vote counts in any way. Pox on both parties. Its come to a point that the frustration is equally placed on both parties as folks feel it makes no difference.
Elected officials say anything to get elected and then once in DC go their merry ways lining their pockets and those of their corporate contributors. Voter turnout will continue to get worse providing the Repubs an opportunity to keep power as their base is more rabid and they keep playing to that base with red meat issues.
The Dems need to run a campaign for change. They need a message that a Dem congress will prevent further calamities and prevent additional usurpation of power. They need a message that there will be more transparency and all the nefarious activities of the current administration will be disinfected with sunlight. They need to campaign on a platform of ethics, constitutional protections, a revitalization of the economy by focusing on the middle class, more fiscal sanity, a better national security through use of real coalitions and diplomacy, a much larger emphasis on actual terrorists and homeland security.
They need to highlight the deception and corruption of Bush-Cheney and the Repubs. They need to highlight that we are in this mess because the Repubs with control of the WH and Congress have lied us into chaos.
When are our Chickenshit Elected Officials (from our side, I don’t expect any Republicans to stand up to their Preznit) going to stand oup and demand answers in a way that can’t be ignored?
If they are worried about legal ramifications – they should all go to the steps of the Capitol and denounce this program and the President in unison and date him to take action.
I’m sick of these wimps.
[tech talk] any techies here… what’s the best way to keep refreshed when one is trying to keep up at the beginning of the thread?
37
Not only that, but will these repubs in congress be comfortable with all this executive power residing in, say, President Hillary?
Makes ya think they have something going on with the elections, no? I mean does anybody think that they are doing all this and just hope that the elections will go their way?
Election fraud – now that’s one topic that could use a little more airing ’round here, IMHO … …
Is there an economic strategy FDL’s can adopt to show our displeasure?
Steve Soto delivers –
Did The NSA Data Mining Revelation Blow Up Hayden’s Nomination?
http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/007627.php
Well, it looks like the USA Today breakthrough story on the NSA’s data mining operation on purely domestic phone calls has landed like a missile inside the White House bunker this morning. First, the White House was forced to cancel General Michael Hayden’s scheduled visits on Capitol Hill today, because, well, Hayden was the man who implemented the data mining operation back in 2001. Second, Arlen Specter went off the reservation today, and immediately said he would convene hearings aimed not at the Administration initially, but at the phone companies themselves to squeeze them. Very smart. And Specter isn’t the only Republican who is upset this morning over this.
Third, Patrick Leahy made the valid point, while holding up a copy of the USAT this morning, that the media is doing the job of congressional oversight because the GOP congress has abdicated its responsibility. …
Here are some questions for discussion today:
This revelation obviously came from sources that the USAT felt were high enough and credible enough to withstand the expected “such leaks are treasonous†pushback from the White House, or else the USAT would not have gone with the story. But who would benefit from leaking this story, and at this time as Hayden was making the rounds on Capitol Hill, knowing that this data mining operation has his direct fingerprints all over it? And how does the White House continue with the Hayden nomination when he has been kneecapped like this on a program he ran for which he cannot provide answers? I mean, a whole bunch of “Senator, I cannot answer your question on that program because it is classified” at his confirmation hearing for the CIA isn’t going to cut it …
Apple Canyon 2 #29
The reason they’re worried is that this is something that affects all Americans and it is something they can readily understand.
It is like high gas prices. Everybody can see when they go up and they see it everytime they get in their cars to go anywhere. Gas stations are everywhere and every one of them has a big sign reminding us of just how high gas prices are. It is a story that Bush and his cronies can’t hide from.
Well, this is exactly the same. Every American knows now that everytime they pick up a phone (which most of us do many times a day)the government is listening. Everytime they even think about making a call they will be reminded that the government is out there recording them. This is another story that Bush can’t control. That’s why he and his advisors are so scared. This is something that not only touches all Americans it is something they all feel (and are likely to feel strongly about).
Had enough?
I have.
they obviously are not concerned about anyone else gaining power. they plan to stay in. who needs elections.
“Have you no sense of decency, Mr. President? At long last, have you left no sense of decency?”
Why #15
Sorry, didn’t see your
whinepost:Colbert – a germanic name made up of the elements “col”, possibly meaning “cool”, and “beraht”, meaning “bright”.
Relax and scroll…
Hugh – that is dead right.
When I read the USA today article today, I immediately thought of all the people I have called in the last year, and what sort of information the government can piece together from my phone records.
USA Today is a widely read paper. Millions of people in the American mainstream are reading the article on the NSA’s program and wondering who is listening to their calls. It is personal, it is an intrusion of privacy, and it will not stand for the vast majority of Americans.
Radio Open Source (Chris Lydon) to do show today on NSA’s New Phone Database:
http://www.radioopensource.org…..-database/
Donnie Darko director on terrorist watch list.
He thinks it might have something to do with the content of his new film witch is about government anti-terrorist measures.
http://www.nypost.com/entertai…../n9105.htm
-GSD
Trying to solve the underlying problem by addressing the symptoms individually is like taking a pain pill for a broken leg or like playing a game of “Whack-A-Mole” – the leg is still broken and the moles always win.
To turn things around, the entire neocon dogma must be discredited and shown for what it really is. So long as we have leadership buy-in to this sick, pathetic perversion — really, just elitism taken to extremes — the symptoms can never be fixed.
Here is a description of the kind of corrupt thinking by our leaders that has brought us to this point:
(The emphasis below is mine. Excerpt from :
http://www.esoteric.msu.edu/VolumeVII/Secrecy.htm )
Bush himself, I will argue, lies at the intersection of these three (and other) forces, and his political persona has in turn been constructed in multiple ways by his advisors and constituents: he is thus at once the Gentleman, the Prince, and the Simulacrum. The first of these is Strauss’ term for the political figure who serves as the public voice of religion and morality for the wise man or philosopher, who is in fact the one with the real knowledge and power. For Strauss, both secrecy and religion are necessary to the functioning of society: the former protects the “vulgar†public from harsh truths that would endanger them, while the latter gives them faith in the laws that govern society.[17] The second term is of course from Machiavelli, whose work has been taken up by Neoconservative thinkers like Michael Ledeen who call for a neo-Machiavellian use of both religion and deception in American politics.[18] And the third is the term developed by Baudrillard to refer to the new era of simulation and hyper-reality that characterizes much of culture and politics in media-driven, late capitalist consumer society. For Baudrillard, the age of the simulacrum in which we live is one in which “the secret†no longer conceals some hidden truth, but simply conceals the fact that there is no truth or reality beneath the appearance.[19]
…
“One of the ideas that most attracted Kristol and others to Strauss’s work is the esoteric and “aristocratic” nature of his philosophy. True philosophy, according to Strauss, is not meant for the masses. Indeed, it would even dangerous to the multitudes, who would only misunderstand and “vulgarize it.” Philosophy is intended for a kind of “intellectual aristocracy” who possesses the skill, knowledge and courage to handle such potentially threatening ideas:
What made him so controversial within the academic community was his disbelief in the Enlightenment dogma that ‘the truth will make men free’. He was an intellectual aristocrat who thought that the truth could make some minds free, but he was convinced that there was an inherent conflict between philosophic truth and the political order, and that the popularization and vulgarization of these truths might import unease, turmoil and the release of popular passions hitherto held in check by tradition and religion.[100]
With Strauss, Kristol therefore agrees that a just society is one that is ordered and hierarchical, one in which the wise few lead the many, and in which the inequalities of wealth and power are understood by all to be for the benefit of society as a whole: “A just and legitimate society, according to Aristotle, is one in which inequalities – of property, or station, or power – are generally perceived by the citizenry as necessary for the common good. I do no[t] see that this definition has ever been improved upon.”[101]
-x-
Spell check “I don’t pretend to understand the techical” s/b “technical”
Christy,
You ready for some York? Here’s a quote from his article today (http://tinyurl.com/htpf4), “Go back to the news conference he held last October in which he announced the Libby indictment. The case was very serious, Fitzgerald said, as he launched into the famous metaphor in which he compared the CIA-leak case to a baseball game in which the pitcher threw a fastball, hit the batter and “really, really hurt him.†This case is kind of like that, Fitzgerald said, only “it’s a lot more serious than baseball. And the damage wasn’t to one person. It wasn’t just Valerie Wilson. It was done to all of us.—
Wasn’t Fitz talking about the Obstruction of Justice, rather than damage caused by the leak? No time to go to the transcript, but that’s my recollection.
Can we gin up some retribution for this turdmuncher? Yeah, you’re right…probably not worth the effort.
T-
WHEN DOES THE LIE BECOME A LIE BIG ENOUGH TO COMPELL CONGRESS TO INVESTIGATE?
We know the line, “So let me make it clear. When we… when you hear us talk about wire taps, you see… a wire tap requires a court order. Nothing has changed.”
And then we heard his reassurance earlier this year, “We’re only targeting contacts going in and out of the United States.”
And his General Hayden, “This is a very targeted program.”
It is nice to know that my government is keeping me safe by tracing ALL my calls to my mother in California. And I’m glad that my phone company, Quest, is not in collusion with this mob run tyranny.
And I am so disappointed in our government’s ineffectual sense of responsibility to the laws of the land that they bend in cowardice to this tyrannical rule.
FASCISM has never gone out of style. It just crossed oceans and has landed in our country. Our military gets top dollar to our tax money. WHY??? So as to be able to wage wars on innocent people.
GOOGLE PNAC PEOPLE
Hitler had his Jews in Europe.
Bush has his Arabs in the Middle East.
America needs to rise up and hold their government accountable for absconding their freedoms in the name of tyranny so as to stop this Monarchy from reigning their peace and liberty down on other countries in the form of nuclearized weapons, hidden by their lies of TERRORISM.
LOOK THE WORD UP AMERICA.
TERRORISM. It’s what we do best, and we do it best to Arab states.
In protests, disenchanted people chant,
“WHO’S STREETS” ~ “OUR STREETS”
“WHO’S CONGRESS” ~ “OUR CONGRESS”
“WHO’S WHITE HOUSE” ~ “OUR WHITE HOUSE”
Only once has the People’s White House been burnt down by the mad mobs that were so disenchanted by the form of Governance. Never again should this happen, IF our legislators would do their jobs, uphold their Oaths, and enforce a sense of justice through their Constitutionally mandated obligation to the people of America.
WHERE ARE THE CHECKS AND BALANCES?
Each skin of this onion reveals more. Maybe people’s eyes will begin to water with the reality that it’s a shell game that George plays with us.
“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”
-Joseph Goebbels
“The future of a movement is conditioned by the fanaticism, yes, the intolerance, with which its adherents uphold it as the sole correct movement, and push it past other formations of a similar sortâ€
-Adolph Hitler
“See, in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda-”
-George W. Bush
“I just want you to know that, when we talk about war, we’re really talking about peace.â€
-George W. Bush
brkily 49 –
F5 key — same as browser refresh button
Spell check “The FISA laws were written for a reason — and the prohibitions on the NSA doing any domestic spying have been honroed” last word s/b “honored.”
Just because you’ve never had a car accident doesn’t mean you’re a good driver, and it doesn’t mean your car is well-maintained or the road you’re on isn’t covered with potholes.
You don’t prevent accidents by purposely running other drivers off the road so that you have smooth sailing.
Shorter version: “just because you’ve never had a heart attack doesn’t mean you’re healthy.â€
ck 52 -
Awesome.
What have Repiglicans got to worry about? If any one has noticed there is a theme in the Repig and their cronies talking points. They constantly suggest that if progressives take back congress there will be endless investigations including an attempt to Impeach. Well, so what!. I just don’t uderstand why the pundits don’t ask them this obvious question. “What are they afraid of?” It is a constant theme on the right that If you have done nothing wrong you have no reason to assert you constitutional right against self incrimination. Then isn’t a logical response to this talking point to ask “What are you afraid of” Why should the threat of investigations from liberals insite their base to action. What are they hiding? What are they afraid of?
we HAVE to put a face on the warantless spying on Americans
we need to make it clear why it can’t be done with practical examples
we need to say things like;
“I don’t want someone corrupt able to look at my bussiness arangements and circumvent my contracts or come in just under my bid”
and
“I don’t want my personal conversations with my wife played for their pleasure”
things like that, we have to put a face on it
Folks, they are tapping our phones.
Say it, over and over, to everyone you talk to, today, tomorrow, and forevermore.
They are tapping our phones.
Personally, I have had THE FUCK enough.
Time for the enraged Dem Congresscritters to stand up on the steps of the Capitol and say:
“Enough!”
Now.
I repeat myself…self…self:
;>)
And we all know why the administration requires unfettered access to such information, don’t we?
Because …After 9/11, the world was going to be new and brave, whether we as people wanted it to be or not.
All the foreign juntas propped up over the eons don’t mean squat if you can’t control your own populace. It was easier when the body politic watched the jiggling mammaries on TV and drank beer by the caseload to forget their domestic trifles, but that darn internet went from being a cybernetic version of the Home Shopping Network for fatasses incapable of bestirring themselves beyond their own barcalounger, to something that could actually be used to communicate concepts requiring critical thinking and studied responses.
A great leveller…Free higher education, if one was willing to develop their own intellect enough to weed out the chaff.
Unacceptable. Push all the xenophobic levers and ring all the jingoist Pavlovian bells!
And keep that chattering dissension down … Don’t you know the enemy is listening?
The Bush administration acknowledged the existence of a domestic spying program, while claiming the executive order was limited to those individuals with known terrorist ties.
December 24, 2005
Sorry, I forgot to note in my post above that the auther of the text I quoted was Hugh Urban of Ohio state University.
End bold
Christy – great post, hope the NSA had fun reading it and all our comments. And you may be right about the Congresscritters only stepping up to actually do something when it’s their communications that are being wiretapped. But, c’mon. Arlen Specter is full of hot gas. He can’t utter a word before Herr John Von Cornyn, that Nazi from Texas, takes over the microphone and tells us that, dammit, the Bush mob CAN’T let Congress have oversight because that stupid Congress is always leaking!I mean, really, you don’t actually think the Constitution has any fucking relevance, do you? It’s nothing more than a pretty little artifact. Let’s keep it beind glass at museum somewhere, because like Splash #36 said, the War on Terra is fraud.
Keeping the Homeland safe from telephone users and emailers. Woops, guess that means every single American citizen. 9-11, 9-11, 9-11, 9-11, 9-11. Oh and don’t forget, it’s all Bill Clinton’s fault, right?
We are all emboldened now, or at least bolded.
end bold?
Christy, your post inspired me to call Specter’s DC office–hard to get through, which usually is a good sign on news days like today. Gave the poor receptionist an earful (”When is your boss going to do his job and hold real hearings?” etc., etc.)
When I said, “Do you all realize how many voters like me are disgusted with this Republican Congress and its failure to hold this Administration accountable?”, she said “yes” and sounded as if she’s been hearing nothing but. So anyone who cares to add to the chorus, it’s 202-224-4254.
—–
end bush
And now for something to put a further chill in your spine:
>>>>>>>>>>
Use of Iraq terror group bypassed Congress, sources say
Concern is building among the military and the intelligence community that the US may be preparing for a military strike on Iran, as military assets in key positions are approaching readiness, RAW STORY has learned.
According to military and intelligence sources, an air strike on Iran could be doable in June of this year, with military assets in key positions ready to go and a possible plan already on the table.
http://www.rawstory.com/news/2….._0511.html
Something that I think the average person doesn’t get when they say that they have nothing to hide in regards to illegal wiretaps is this:
What if you accidentally dialed the wrong number and it’s a number of some bad guy.
What if a bad guy accidentally dialed your number.
What if you were trying to get a hold of an organization for a legitimate purpose and that organization’s name was misleading to you and they were actually a front organization for a bad group.
All these mistakes could give the government reason to think you were a bad guy too, and it’s your word against theirs.
Thank you, Ed N Sted
Max-1 #63
General Hayden: “This is a very targeted program.”
And it is targeted at all of us.
ck:
I was just turning off the bolding that was accidently got turned on in a previous post.
(Adjusting tinfoil hat, ahem) And what if the bad guys did some autodialing to lots of regular folks’ numbers to throw NSA off?
Ed N Sted
Wow! Thank you for *totally nailing it!!!*
Leo Strauss. That needs to become a household name. I’d love to see some more discussion about Strauss in the blogs – then it will filter out into the MSM. This is really important for many reasons – not the least of which it provides an excellent retort to the knee-jerk denialists who bleat “conspiracy theory” everytime someone tries to put all the Bushco. lies in any kind of context. The “conspiracy theory” meme is killing us and we need to kill IT. As Redd well knows, conspiracies happen and are prosecuted every day.
The thinking of Leo Strauss obviously informes just about everything this maladministration does. That is how they justify, in their own minds anyway, their lies. Strauss is literally a roadmap to the thinking of Bush, Cheney, and the whole cabal.
dare to be bold
Here’s a MSNBC Live Vote on this issue – go let them know what you think:
“http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12734870/”
IANAL, but the phrase “As an officer of the court” keeps going through my head as I listen to Bush say something to the effect of “appropriate Congressional leaders have been briefed” on this program.
As an officer of the court, would any lawyers in that group of Congressional leaders be legally bound to report to the appropriate court – say, the FISA court, if not the US District Court – something like “I have reason to believe that there is a crime being committed as we speak . . .”?
How, you lawyers among us, do we get this whole mess from spin into accountability? Congress has shown no desire to hold real hearings, so what about the courts?
Where’s Sirica when we need him?
BobbyG 67 –
I hope Steve Soto is right — either way, the HindenBush is goin’ DOWN, and it’s time for the GOoPers to abandon ship.
The only way to save the Republican Party is to for the GOoPers to get rid of Bush — if they don’t, he destroys all of the,
If Steve Gilliard is right — Bush will be gone by Labor Day.
http://tinyurl.com/a6erq
Help Impeach Today
Now… People think this is a waste of time because even the Dems said that they were not going to impeach (yeah right)…
Keep the pressure on Congress… Talking about impeachment wakes people up… They question, it’s a strong motivator to get people thinking. It also lets Congress know how intense the dissapproval is for this President… They seem to be a little slow on the uptake. So please:
1) Sign petitions if you have not done so
2) Send a letter to Congress (both Senators & House rep)
3) Send a copy to the media
4) Enlist friends and family to help, ask them to chip in time
5) Spread the link around, email it (with a request to forward) post it on a blog, or in the comments of a news story.
Help out!!!
Thanks :)
#15 – It is an itsy- bitsy teeny- weeny distraction; a bit of stuff and nonsense; a rallying cry; a declaration of a wish; and a celebration of a new thread. Yup, it is all that and more.
To travy # 37
The only way there is going to be a wedge between the congress (either party) and the president is if the president makes an effort to halt “bridge to nowhere pork barrel spending.” Someone like Duke Cunningham is only useful to the extent that they can bring home the bacon to the lobbyist/consultant/contractor crowd. Somehow I don’t think the president sees a need to interfere with the congress’ ability to keep the “wheels of democracy” greased.
Sorry, not likely there is going to be a wedge issue any time soon.
Punaise @ 87
Live and let die bold
;>)
This is Bush’s “Saturday Night Massacre”. For anyone that was conscious during Watergate you have to feel the comparison today. We are so close to having this fucker on the ropes and heading toward Impeachment, it is hilarious! But we gotta act now–right now while the stench of this treason makes it easy to compare to Nixon. I’ve already faxed my Senators and my Congressman with the gist of my message here. Everyone should go for it and keep it going everyday from now on.
dna
The Heritage Foundation fool on MSNBC attacks the leaker of this information that appeared in USA today and questions the timing– suprise!
Jim Harper from CATO does a sorta good job of refuting him.
I just did a jpeg graphic “Bush’s Energy Plan for YOU” but I don’t have ftp upload capability to my site from work. Anyone want a copy to pay it forward, email me at bobbyg “at” bgladd “dot” com.
(got that, NSA lurkers? fuck you.)
cathy #81
There is also the difference between why should you care if they are tapping you if you have nothing to hide –in theory and in practice. Most people almost all of whom have nothing to hide are going to feel mighty uncomfortable knowing that they, not some hypothetical other person, are having their phones tapped. Everyone has something to hide even if it would not be terribly interesting or incriminating to the rest of us.
Max-1 #63. You’ve perfectly encapsulated the surreal nature of the Fascism we are now living under. Let’s send that post to our Congresspeople as action in our Roots Project.
I will now go to my paint job and take my aggressions out on the blood red wall I just happen to be painting today.
Christy, please delete my 96, thanks.
liz @ 9:14 am (#32) – This was the first thing they offered? I had a similar problem here, with a competent ISP, and they figured out what it was. Of course, I’d done all the troubleshooting I could before calling. They may have felt that you weren’t able to figure it out at your end without someone onsite.
There’s some really awful tech support out there. Sometimes “out there” means “in Bangalore” or “in Hong Kong”. I just dropped Earthlink not too long ago thanks to really lousy cable Internet support (their support for dialup had always been great, it was partly the cable provider, Comcast, that was the problem there, I’m sure). Anyway, I never ascribe to conspiracy what I can put down to incompetence, and in this case it could be incompetence. It’s certainly something I’ve experienced with high-speed Internet service.
You were right, though, to insist they try to fix the problem without bothering you about it. If you hadn’t changed anything before the connection broke, and a competent tech support person had taken you through the troubleshooting steps you could do without fixing or isolating the problem, the problem was almost certainly not at or near your house.
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.†– Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering, before committing suicide at the Nuremberg Trials
In re-reading my previous quote of the the Hugh Urban paper, I failed to make it clear that Urban himself strongly objects to this neocon administration. A brief quote from his closing should suffice (again, emphasis mine):
To close, I would like to offer a few comments regarding the political role of the scholar of religion in the world today. There was a time when I, like most scholars of religion, believed that the best I could do was to remain as neutral as possible about the political implications of my research while at the same remaining as self-conscious as possible about the ways in which my work might be affected by my own political opinions. Well, I must say that I no longer believe in this sort of comfortable pretense of neutrality. When one’s government is committing acts as disturbing as those of the Bush administration, and concealing them under layers of obsessive secrecy, no thinking citizen, can pretend to remain comfortably neutral.
Off topc.Kick ass http://www.informationclearing…..e12999.htm
TeddySanFran #74:
Time for the enraged Dem Congresscritters to stand up on the steps of the Capitol and say:
“Enough!â€
You mean like this? I’m proud to count my congressman among them.
According to the story just up as WashPo, it appears that the recent delivery to the Hill might have been noticed . . .
“Sen. Patrick J. Leahy (D-Vt.), the top Democrat on the Senate Judiciary Committee, held up a copy of USA Today’s front-page story during the panel’s meeting and said, “Shame on us for being so far behind and being so willing to rubber-stamp anything this administration does.”"
Go Jane, Christy, and Pach!
said this on 12/19 when the story broke -
we are focusing on individuals’ privacy and rightly so -
but don’t corporations also use these same phone lines ? IOW, is your company’s proprietary info – you know, the shit you e mailed from R & D last week, safe from your competitors ?!?!?
yes everyone’s 4th amendment rights have been trampled on – just saying we should have plenty of support in corporate america on this as well
cathy at 9:41,
what if you were a complete wacko, and called the Iraqi Embassy right before the war started to try and tell them not all Americans wanted war? would you be on a really, really special list?
When a Democratic President takes the oath of office in 2008, I nominate Christy Hardin Smith for Attorney General of the United States!
Now that I have that off my chest, I have just learned that FauxNews is firmly in control of the WH spin machine. Today Snowjob fired off emails blasting the NY Times, CBS and USA Today for their “unfair” coverage of the preznit’s job.
So the government knows about all my calls to my health insurance company begging for coverage, while the government itself is NOT protecting our ports, contemplating attacking Iran, and running up a bigger and bigger deficit? Blech…
Dave in Livonia @ 9:45 am (#88) – Results so far:
* 14007 responses
Yes, given the threat of terrorism it is appropriate.
16%
No, it’s an intrusion on our right to privacy.
84%
Not a scientific survey. Click to learn more. Results may not total 100% due to rounding.
It’s encouraging that this is a higher than usual margin for these things. Seems the base is getting smaller.
Correct me if I’m misguided, misinformed or just plain wrong:
The GOP are masters at turning the issue around using misdirection. The original issue, and the illegal part, is that the NSA wasn’t going through the proper channels to acquire warrants to conduct wiretaps. The GOP spin-doctors have turned this into a different issue, claiming that by bringing this into the open, we are helping the terrorists and implying that anyone who opposes is unAmerican. The corporate media has bought the spin as the MSNBC live vote mentioned before points out:
–no mention of the fact that the wiretapping was ILLEGAL or that the system is set up so they can tap a call and get the warrant up to three days after the fact. NSA failed to do even that.
If they had gone through the proper channels to begin with, this would not be a story now.
Hugh #98:
Everyone has something to hide even if it would not be terribly interesting or incriminating to the rest of us.
Exactly. When the wingnuts say “why are you worried if you haven’t done anything wrong?” they’re pretending that the only things the eavesdroppers will pay attention to are evidence of lawbreaking, and most people aren’t lawbreakers. But nearly everyone has something to hide, things they’d rather no one else knew about.
This program is the very definition of “Big Brother is Watching You!”
What were those “freedoms” the terrists hate us for, again?
Just phoned Qwest to see if they offer service in Maine. (the woman who answered said lots of people calling and remarking on their NSA position – Go Qwest!) But it seems Verizon has a monopoly here in Vacationalnd. Does anyone know how that works? if Verizon is the local carrier and Qwest is the long distance carrier, can I still get tapped? I use working Assets for long distance now – can’t imagine that they’d tap.
Thanks for the great post Christy.
freep, please: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12738454/
darkblack 94 – You Only Vote Twice
Utterly predictable wingnut response:
_____
(CNN) “…Republican Sen. Jon Kyle of Arizona also faulted the revelation of the program as harmful to national security.
“This is nuts,” said Kyle. “We are in a war and we’ve go to collect intelligence on the enemy and you can’t tell the enemy in advance how you are going to do it. And discussing all of this in public leads to that.”…
_____
Y’see just KNOWING that our own government is spying on ALL OF US is aiding the Enemy.
Kyle, stick it up your ‘face.’
Additon to 114, can’t imagine Working Assets would provide my records to NSA. But nothing is for certain these days.
More Snowjob on the job: the preznit has now informed the American people that the gov is not “trolling” through the personal phone records …. wonder where he learned that new word?
OT but sorta not wrt fear mongering and keeping us depressed.
Has anyone else noticed the new flurry of coverage endlessly on the cable networks of family members in court cases or elsewhere giving tearful and very emotional testimonials to their dead loved ones?
The miners lost in WV, the Moussaoui trial, the victims of the RI nightclub fire, etc.
I think it is a good thing to allow people to have their moments of remembrance and their say, but to televise it and play it in an endless loop for the public’s consumption just seems grotesque to me. We cannot see the coffins returning at Dover AFB, but this grief is served up regularly along side regular reports of who is left at American Idol.
Hugh 98-
When I talk to people who don’t mind the invasion, they say that they have nothing to hide, kind of like the drug testing thing, they don’t do drugs so test away. But false positives are a reality.
My point is that everyone misdials the phone. Should you misdial to the wrong guy, you could be secreted away to Hungary and tortured until you confess to being part of that organization.
This is what the average American doesn’t get.
Voice calls may resonate with the general public at a more visceral level, but I agree with Lambert, though for a little different reason:
The other difference is that there is a well-defined distinction between recording calls and recording “call information” (which is what the USA Today article describes, though I don’t for a minute believe that the program is limited to that.) There is no well-defined distinction for email. For voice calls, the “call information” is in a data format, as opposed to the call content, which is sound (even if it’s digitized.) All parts of an email are in the same form, text, and so the difference has never been legally established between tracking activity (which requires a lower standard of proof, as I understand it) and recording content.
Of course, since this administration doesn’t think they even have to bother to get warrants, I suppose that distinction is pretty much moot anyway…
Working Assets is a Reseller of services. They use underlying provider carriers such as Sprint and resell the service under their own label. The calls are carried by their providers and the billing information is provided to them by their providers.
Christy, the link to Glenn’s post leads instead to Jane’s article about the NSA, which is also in the very next link. I suspect you meant to lead us here:
http://glenngreenwald.blogspot…..d-for.html
Regarding the NSA scandal, I think we should all send a letter of thanks to the President – It would read something like this:
Dear Mr. President:
Thank you so much for being the catalyst to allow the NSA to keep a log of all of my phone calls. I would imagine that, since Verizon also funnels all of my personal and work related emails, that you have been keeping track of those as well, including the text associated with them. Well let me just say that this is a big relief to me.
You see, often I accidentally erase emails on my computer. This causes me great consternation, particularly when I want to try that new recipe that Aunt Dottie sent me or when I want to find the directions to that birthday party that I’m already fifteen minutes late for. Now, thanks to the NSA, I have a permanent record of all of the personal and work related emails that I ever sent ore received since 2001. Do you have a contact at the NSA that could maybe forward some of my work emails back to me? I got a new computer at work in 2003, so I would need everything from 2001 to 2003. Thanks, dude – that would really help me win some points with my boss.
In addition, whenever I call the China King in West Chester and order the General Tso’s Chicken, inevitably they send me Beef With Broccoli instead. Man oh man, does that make me angry. When I call them up to complain, they insist that I did not order the General Tso’s. Now, with the NSA’s assistance, I bet I can catch them in a lie. Dude, if you give me the NSA guy’s name that keeps track of all of the Southeastern PA phone calls, I bet we could set up a sting on these China King people. Wouldn’t that be something, huh?
Thanks again, Mr. President. You sure have been a great help. Say hello to your brother Jeb for me.
Sincerely,
The issue is two-fold. The NSA wiretapping action is an invasion of our privacy. And once again, George Bush–who said we would never do that kind of thing against ordinary Americans–has been caught in a lie.
Can this guy tell the truth about anything?
And the Congressional solution of changing laws to make Bush’s lawbreaking legal instead of holding Bush and his minions accountable to the law is unconscionable.
But then he told us…he doesn’t have a problem with dictatorships as long as he gets to be dictator. And the Constitution is just a goddamned piece of paper.
Decider in chief? Commander in chief? Make that beguiler-in-chief, Hillary…and do your homework on the Bill of Rights and Constitution as Senator Feingold has. The rest of the occupants of the Capitol as well.
’cause we the voters will hold you all to account in November.
Shorter Bush: “In order to save the Constitution it became necessary to destroy it.”
I’ve had it. What can we do? I’ve called, written letters, sent money, signed petitions, blogged. I don’t even have a Congressional representative just now (CA-50, hello!) What can we do?
BobbyG #117
“This is nuts,” said (Republican Senator)Kyle. “We are in a war”
Well as a Senator he should know. Think he could me a copy of the Declaration of War for the war he is talking about, being the stand up kind of defender of the Constitution that I have no doubt he is and all?
Let’s take action. Verizon, AT&T the corporate slobs giving our executive a free pass to spy on us? We have power. Let organize a boycott of some type to hurt them and keep hurting them until we have hearings. I about to cancel my cell contract.
Rumor has it Kerry will slapping down Hayden nomination and the latest news on the NSA in a speech today – http://blog.thedemocraticdaily.com/?p=2948
Thanks mahaleela at 123
So I basically have no choice as to providers because Verizon is the only game in town and they could hand over my long distance records regardless of who my long distance carrier is.
Dang.
Earmarks – here’s a morsel about the latest GOP investigatee, “Rep. Jerry Lewis, the Californian who chairs the powerful House Appropriations Committee.” It harkens back to Josh Marshall’s earlier post, this one’s a bit easier to digest.
http://www.thecarpetbaggerrepo…../7384.html
Flamethrower (#48): (Norske, is that you?)
May 11th, 2006 at 9:23 am
When are our Chickenshit Elected Officials (from our side?
…
I’m sick of these wimps.
I agree completely. If the Dems can’t come out in unison, and loudly against this shit, then there’s no effective difference between a Repub that engages in it and a Dem who turns away so he can’t see it. If they don’t demand an investigation, it will be of little use to go to the polls in November. The Repubs will probably steal the election again anyhow, while the simpering little Dems all (except for Feingold and a couple of others) cower collectively in a corner hoping not to be abused further.
Your good words ring true, Smith. Even 3 years of knowing the nation was Big Lied into waging war does not diminish them.
One Monday morning in the Fall of 1973, I turned on a TV and was stunned to see a firestorm had engulfed congress, and that calls for the impeachment of Richard Nixon had begun in earnest.
The treachery and hubris that attended the ad campaign that sold the Big Lies war to the American people has yet been called to a proper accounting. Perhaps it never will.
But if fate decrees the intercepted e-mails between congress critters and their lovers incites insurrection among the sheepherd, I’ll take it.
Here’s how Bush parsed it: Not LISTENING to your calls without court approval.
In other words, there is no court approval for tracking your calls, or perhaps READING your emails…
BOY AM I P*SSED!!
This was totally predictable (and thus preventable).
BushCo, having gotten away with so much already, knows it can get away with anything and is totally out of control.
Who is going to stand up and say, “enough is enough�?
Checks and balances were created for a REASON!!
Where are the Democrats? Has anyone made an official response today yet, or do we have to wait for the talk shows?
And in the meantime, BushCo is quietly enacting its religious right, anti-scientific, pro-billionaire agenda and no one cares.
Susan #114:
I use Working Assets for long distance now – can’t imagine that they’d tap.
Unfortunately, Working Assets is a reseller. They don’t actually do the technical/equipment side or things for their service; they resell service from Sprint, which does allow the NSA wiretapping. :-(
Er, that should have been “side of things.”
Havin’ all those phone call records will provide the Neatest, Bestest, Coolest way ever for the Neatest, Bestest, Coolest President ever to track down those pesky way uncool leaks.
Why are we still sitting at our desks and not marching in the streets? These people need to be tarred, feathered, and ridden on rails (at a slow trot)back to their home states and pilloried in the public square.
This has the feel of something big, and by “big” I mean something that gets traction with people and the press. It has lies caught on video tape. It has greedy telecoms. Most importantly, it is something directly affecting everyone.
BTW, I’m going to change my phone service to Qwest. Since Qwest doesn’t own the land lines around here, it might not stop the NSA from mining my calls, but it at least will give most of my money to Qwest instead of Verizon. Qwest’s actions are the sorts of things that gives me hope for America.
Once upon a time, there was a country where citizens could take for granted the right to have a conversation with another person over the phone IN PRIVATE.
Then the people gave up that right. They didn’t fight a government that instituted a massive domestic spying program.
The people decided that good, upstanding Americans have nothing to hide.
In the name of an endless War on Terrorism, they declared their right to privacy negotiable.
The founding fathers rolled in their graves.
Thanks Redshift at 136.
This is all so outrageous. Do we have any recourse? How about a class action suit aginst these telecom companies.
Susan @ 114 -
you bring up a point I was just about to comment on -
Telephony 101 from about 20 years ago -
even if you are one carrier’s customer, your calls are often transmitted through other companies lines -
If you
are a Qwest customer in Washington state and pick up the house phone to dial NY, you are probably going through AT&T’s lines
As per cbl #38, when you call your congresspersons today to express your outrage that your government is spying on your every movement; preface your remarks with something like “I’m aware, as you must be, that this conversation is being monitored by King George’s government but I refuse to be silent while our constitiution is shredded and our democracy is totally destroyed.”
Toll-free switchboard: 888-355-3588 or 888-818-6641
Regular switchboard: 202-224-3121
We must resist.
Just called Qwest to see about transferring phone and internet service. The saleswoman said they’d been getting a lot of calls from California, but they don’t do business here. I asked her to pass up the line our support for Qwest’s refusal to cooperate with the NSA.
The complete inversion of a fundamental Constitutional moral founding principle is essentially complete under BushCo.
It is incontrovertible from the historical record that the framers of the Constitution intended that the private affairs of private citizens were to remain PRIVATE absent compelling legal justification for investigative breach, AND, the activities of those in power were to be kept PUBLIC absent demonstrable objective independent showing of compelling need for such activities to be held secret.
Bush’s principle accomplishment in office has been to fully invert this. The danger this poses cannot be overstated.
Parenthetically, in line with the remarks about strauss above i suppose the objective here was to set the stage for the recess appointment of h. that we were going to get anyway, but now making it look like the fault of those obstreperous congress people interfering with The President’s nice schedule. (off to business)
Oh Senator KYYYYL . . .
Wonder how three of Arizona’s largest employers; Honeywell, Intel, and Wells Fargo will react when they figure out you are shilling for a program that spies on their phone and e mail records ???? I’m sure they’ll understand about the whole We’re At War thing . . .no, really no prob
Get Bold not Boiled
cathy #121:
When I talk to people who don’t mind the invasion, they say that they have nothing to hide, kind of like the drug testing thing, they don’t do drugs so test away.
The false positives point is true, but I don’t think it’s the best way to try to get through to people. I think the best way to respond to that kind of statement is to ask “Really? You don’t talk or email about anything that’s private enough that you have any problem with an army of government bureaucrats knowing about it? I mean, geez, I can remember when the government spying on all of its citizens’ most private conversations was a bad thing that only evil totalitarian governments did…”
Anybody who wants to get an early start on Jack Cafferty’s first e-mail question of the day, here it is:
4 p.m.: Does it concern you that the NSA has been secretly collecting the phone records of tens of millions of Americans?
Go get ‘em!
http://www.cnn.com/feedback/forms/form5t.html
Trying to catch up.
Two immediate action plans — switch to Qwest, or buy Qwest stock, or write a letter to the editor applauding Qwest. [I’m already a Qwest customer–in 2 locales.]
Call your Senators and Congressperson’s hometown offices.
We can’t just rant here preaching to the choir. We must Speak Up, Speak Out… [outside our circle…]
Oh, and go to MSNBC and respond with a comment to their question of the day. Hell, yes, it matters….guess that’s 3. Gotta go–sometimes being a first-namer with the delegation has its value….
This is the product of every freaking talking head on the radio—both liberal and conservative—every pundit, every media whore, every person with a voice saying for the past four years, “well we’re at WAR†“the American people don’t want to impeach a president in a time of WAR†“the people want to fight the TERRORISTS†–in short, the oldie but goodie, people in power using FEAR to intimidate the sheeple into letting them do whatever they want, be it torture, hookers, drugs, illegal wars, spying on political enemies, you name it.
And why the Democrats are afraid to call a spade a spade, I don’t know. Agree with similar comments above. You don’t have to be the party in power to SPEAK OUT! See Russ Feingold for example.
Oh, and we’re supposed to just TRUST them. Just trust that they’re playing fair with the elections, for example.
In Case You Are Interested….
I am meeting with the grand jury tomorrow.
http://patrickjfitzgerald.blogspot.com
Redshift -
The major stupidity of mass drug testing is that, in order to avoid false positives they adminstratively ratchet up the the “cut-off levels” so high that all they ever see are “probable cause” cases anyway. They trade false negatives (casual users who slip through) for false positives (who raise all kinds of lawsuit hell). Just wastes a ton of money to look like we’re “tough on drug abuse.”
Read my old grad thesis draft: http://www.bgladd.com/drugwar
(about 80% of the final cut)
The other day C-SPAN re-broadcast General Hayden’s presser after the original whistle was blown on the NSA spying program (2004?). I watched intently as what appeared to be a half-filled room of actual journalists (those that ask pointed questions) and concerned citizens peppered the general about just what the hell was going on.
He was emphatic in his assurances that the program was targeting suspected terrorists ONLY. He repeated this claim in nearly every reply and adamantly stated that unless you’re a terrorist “you have nothing to worry about”. This video should be replayed by C-SPAN and then used as evidence against the case for nominating Hayden as head of CIA.
Stupid question: Recalling Abu’s testimony in the hearings a while back, is it possible that this is the other program he was implicitly referring to when he kept saying, “In the program we’re discussing today.” ?? Why didn’t someone ASK him, “What other programs are there?”
While wiretaping and listening to all our calls isagainst the constitution and disturbing, plans to Attack Iran are apparently moving right along. This is the most immediate concern for the world. Where is the outrage, the outcry the revolt? Please start a campaign (donate money) to take out ads to let congress know that they had better make noise and stop the maddness. I write and call almost daily to Diane, Nancy and Barbara (my district) Nancy better get busy. I get form letters in return that sometimes have nothing to do with my letters. How can we reach our Reps if they don’t read our mail or respond to our calls.?
Thank you
At work listening to Al Franken and Tom Oliphont talking about Qwest and Al just suggested that people should switch their service. Apparently Qwest was pressured by the NSA to turn over their records and they refused.
Maybe there is hope.
But really, isn’t it illegal for these companies to turnover our personal records(property) to the government? I have no idea, but god – I’d hope so.
Anyone out there know? Is a class action suit just a goofy idea?
Spin spin spin at the gym this morning…and I’m talking FOX not the bicycles. Big plasma of Fox is in front of my treadmill and boy were they working it. Had snitty Ms. Hughes on, a couple of other pundits, cranking out the story that the presinut is protecting us and those damned democrats are taking advantage of it all by making this a political thang.
They looked, sounded, and acted seriously panicked.
Smells Like EPU Spirit . . .
Nothing to Hide, So Why Be Concerned Meme -
Your employer just transmitted your Personnel File, you know, the one with your performance evaluations and Social Security # in it ?
Your Doctor’s transcription service just e mailed her your medical record – you know, the one with your shrink’s session notes in it?
Oh, and Mortgage Company just transmitted your Credit Report -
I think we need to keep flogging this story.
This morning on CNN even Solidad O’Brien (she of relentless cheerfulness and determined to prove everyday that you don’t have to be blond to be bubbleheaded) was stopped dead in her tracks for moment when she heard about this.
Having EVERY PHONE CALL monitored is easy for any American to grasp.
This is a gut check kind of issue. It will resonate quickly and easily with everyone.
Even the “i have nothing to hide” crowd. because everyone of us has SOMETHING we don’t want a stranger to know.
I have had several federal background checks in my life and have had to fill out financial disclosure forms for years because of the types of jobs I have held.
Every time, I feel so violated. And I live such a boring plain vanilla private life, I REALLY have nothing to hide. Still, I always feel like I’m letting someone give me the paperwork equivelant of a colonoscopy.
The thing is, I am not compelled to submit to such scrutiny, I could switch jobs and not be forced to disclose my private financial details or personal connections.
With the NSA program, there is no way for a person to opt out. Previously, a person could say “I have nothing to hide” which really, subconscioulsy translates to “so they will never bother spying on me”
This time, we find out they are spying on all the me’s. And every conversation we have ever had with a person weI have a sexual interest in, every angry email we have ever shot off and regretted the content of the next day. Every intemperate remark we have ever made without thinking first.
OOOpps, let’s not forget every post we have ever made to firedoglake. I may have a screenname, but my posts come attached to my email address.
The time is ripe for an indictment!
Mr. Fitzgerald, please show us that at least ONE branch of our government is still breathing!
Susan, it’s called “lawful intercept” and the aggreement you sign allows the phone company to “intercept” your data/voice if they have been directed to by law enforcement. And every company providing service between your company and the desitination company.
The issue comes down to if this program is lawful. But when the government comes calling and says this is a lawful intercept case, the companies are set up to cooperate.
At the big telecom equipment company where I worked we had to provide lawful intercept capabilities for all our customers: the largest telecom companies–wired or wireless.
Just spoke with Arlen Specter’s office, about a 4 minute wait after numerous redials. I expressed my feeling that our consititution and democracy are more important than party affiliation & requested an investigation and that he not roll over for George Bush again.
When I asked if she would like my name, the recpt stated it wasn’t necessary because my phone number appeared on her monitor … can you hear me now George?
Hit AT&T, Verizon and Bellsouth where they live. How about a gigundous class action lawsuit on behalf of us victims?
This country’s political house is on fire, and the arsonist wants us to continue arguing about whether it should be painted red or blue. Meanwhile, the foundation is starting to crack.
looseheadprop -
The ONLY salient point is that YOU do not have to justify your Constitutional privacy claim. While not “absolute,” (the “probable cause” thingy) it is properly PRESUMPTIVE. People need to stop being cowed by the fallacious “loaded question” insinuation of “what have you got to hide?”
Excellent piece of writing, Ms. Smith!! Thanks for putting in to plain-spoken words what many of us have been feeling and thinking.
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.c…..008422.php
If this quote that I found on Josh Marshall’s site has already been mentioned, please forgive this duplication of someone else’s post. I have not had a chance today to keep up with recent threads, but will try to catch up as this afternoon progresses.
See what you think of this:
Why can’t we beat our enemy without giving up one right,freedom or privledge we had pre 9/11?
I’m sick and tried of the argument if we don’t let the White House take away a right,privledge or freedom from us,we could be killed.
The President says they hate us for our freedom,but he is limiting our freedoms everyday!
Sigh. OT with the rawstory IRAN threat. Is it possible our military leaders could refuse to invade? Could they stand down if they knew it was best for the country?
new thread– call to action.
Bush drool transcript:
_____
SPEAKER: GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES
BUSH: After September the 11th, I vowed to the American people that our government would do everything within the law to protect them against another terrorist attack.
As part of this effort, I authorized the National Security Agency to intercept the international communications of people with known links to Al Qaida and related terrorist organizations.
In other words, if Al Qaida or their associates are making calls into the United States or out of the United States, we want to know what they’re saying.
Today, there are new claims about other ways we are tracking down Al Qaida to prevent attacks on America. I want to make some important points about what the government is doing and what the government is not doing.
First, our intelligence activities strictly target Al Qaida and their known affiliates. Al Qaida is our enemy, and we want to know their plans.
Second, the government does not listen to domestic phone calls without court approval.
Third, the intelligence activities I authorized are lawful and have been briefed to appropriate members of Congress, both Republican and Democrat.
Fourth, the privacy of ordinary Americans is fiercely protected in all our activities. We’re not mining or trolling through the personal lives of millions of innocent Americans. Our efforts are focused on links to Al Qaida and their known affiliates.
So far, we’ve been very successful in preventing another attack on our soil.
As a general matter, every time sensitive intelligence is leaked, it hurts our ability to defeat this enemy. Our most important job is to protect the American people from another attack, and we will do so within the laws of our country.
Thank you.
END
True story – 2 plain clothes police gained entry to my home posing as my ISP sales people.
I spent a weekend in the slammer on bogus charges( they like to bust you on Fridays just to do that ) and first thing when I got home was I rang my ISP and asked them nicely if they minded the police imitating them ( @Iprimus ) The exact reply…’ we like to help the CIA!’
The really funny thing is I don’t even live in America. I’m from Australia. Oh and there was a Secret Service guy present at my arrest. A Rick Walkinshaw from the Hawaii office ( circa 2001)
My FOI request about why he was there is still in the queue…five years later.
Worse than the KGB imho. Worse than the Gestapo now.
Marksb @ 165 -
yes, everything in your comment is true – but the folks at Qwest threw a big wrench in the inevitable “We were only cooperating by law” defense -
IANAL, but I can be a juror, and my first question is going to be, ’so what made Qwest back away from all that Cash ??”
Myself, I’d like to see a little truthful justification for wholesale domestic wiretapping from an administration that had 9/11 hijackers under surveillance prior to the event, that had foreknowledge of an impending attack (‘bin Laden determined to strike within U.S’ – Aug. 6th, 2001) but let the terrorists under surveillance slip away to commit their heinous deeds, then embroiled the U.S. in a war against a boxed-in country (that had nothing to do with the terrorist attack) for retribution using spurious reasons, only to create a quagmire that will take decades to mend, if ever, and utterly destroying the good will of the world towards their efforts in the process…While domestically letting a American city die and harming the social fabric of the nation using partisanship and unethical, illegal crony shenanigans.
You know, sort of like ‘Kiss me before you f*ck me’.
Wouldn’t that be nice?
Because in the ‘reality-based world’, one does not reward serial f*ckuperry with enhanced responsibilities.
Over at the WaPo blog, Andrew Cohen has written about today’s NSA story:
http://blog.washingtonpost.com…..e_law.html
While not as critical as we’ve been, he takes the Administration to task for having lied about this program and having tried to cover it up. He makes this point about the program’s legitimacy and the phone companies that cooperated:
As a commenter pointed out, the motive may have been money. The NSA offered to compensate the companies for their efforts. How profitable that compensation might have been, like everthing else in this case, is yet to be determined.
I am almost completely unsurprised by the USA Today revelations on the NSA spying on purely domestic phone calls. The only surprises really is that the paper went with the story, and that there was one brave phone company that had the guts to stand up for the Constitution.
There’s a basic premise in physics that if there is no principle to stop a previously unseen reaction from occuring then that reaction will eventually be discovered to be occuring. It is clear that in the Bush presidency that nothing, not the Constitution, not the courts, and certainly not the Congress will stop them from whatever they want to do in the name of the War-on-Terror. That’s why this November’s elections are so important. Were it not for these elections taking place so soon, we would be seeing even more rubber stamping by the Congress.
Lastly, it is almost certainly not just the time, date, and phone numbers being recorded. It is also likely the duration of the phone call and the locations (fixed landline, and possibly GPS for cells) which are being recorded. The government will know where you are and for how long whenever you are on the phone. It is a leap of faith to believe finally that the contents are not being recorded whenever the government wants do it. The only reason that all phone call contents are not being recorded is physical: the required data storage volume and timely retrieval is not yet feasible.
Thanks marksb at 165,
but how are they determined lawful or unlawful intercepts if the DOJ won’t even hold hearings on the question. And how can we insist that these issues are addressed, aside from calling senators and reps.
blimey.
Folks:
Just called Verizon (my service provider). The person on the other end stated that she was completely unaware of the story. In order to “register” my complaint (whatever THAT means) I was given the following address:
Verizon Customer Relations
1300 Columbus Sandusky Road
Marion, Ohio 43302
Verizon confirmed that they were cooperating with the NSA program.
when people can’t even figure out that 9/11 was bullshit, then i’d say, yeah, you really can’t handle the truth.
this is the gov’t you deserve because your not willing to challenge it.
The potential for misuse of this data will be enormous.
Consider a relatively minor issue: The sheer marketing value alone of such a database would be in the hundreds of millions of dollars; hell, probably billions.
How many DMV employees are making money selling illegal drivers licenses out the back doors of state offices?
Now imagine:
“Hello? Yes, is this the NSA Surplus Data Store? Yeah OK, I’d like to buy a list of everyone in Los Angeles who called a limosine service in the past 12 months. What’s that? Why do I need it? Oh, sure. I’m opening my own limo service and need a list of pre-qualified leads.”
Illegal? Sure. But unlikely? No, not really. Wherever there is a ton of money to be made, it’s been my experience that there are people willing to do whatever it takes to make it.
And make no mistake. This would quite possibly be the single most valuable marketing database ever assembled. It’s every marketer’s wet dream – quite literally the Taj Mahal of demographic candy – an ocean of monetary motion. IMO, there’s no way in hell the NSA could prevent the deliberate misuse of the data. It is just way too tempting — from the marketing aspect alone. And it would draw organized crime like flies to honey.
And that’s just the marketing angle — a mere side note to the big picture.
Nevermind the vastly larger, much more serious, and much more likely threat of its misuse for political purposes.
Oscarsmom at 164:
Since it is assumed that Fitz will give 24 hours advance notice of a news conference and the day is about over, we’re probably safe to assume no indictments this week.
It would be humorous though if he announce tomorrow a conference for Monday and left everyone twisting for the weekend… not that I think that’s likely.
I wish someone would ask GW why we aren’t monitoring the sale and ownership of guns. One would think that this would be more important in the war on terrorism that monitoring phone records.
Corporations should be really, really worried about this too. There are no boundaries. What can be construed as supporting or undermining “National Security” is in entirely the eye of the beholder.
Is it in America’s interest that domestic corporations should have an advantage in bidding on global contracts? To a GOPer, that’s a no-brainer – it makes perfect sense to provide the US company with a bit of inside information about their international competitors. (And for added value, of course, once a company compromises itself by accepting such “help”, it will be in the government’s pocket forever).
And now we know (as opposed to just *knowing*, as we did before) that the government knows about domestic calls as well. To these people, National Security concerns would justify fostering the growth of loyal, patriotic companies run by right-thinking, loyal and trustworthy (GOP) people. A little heads-up now and again about who their flaky, traitorous, liberal, unionized competitors have been in discussions with. What’s the harm in that?
It is all just so overwhelming and depressing. There are so many grotesquely maddening issues that I find it very difficult not to carry significant anger along with me in whatever I do. As someone in this thread observed, (and I paraphrase) “I’ve done everything I can–call, write, contribute, sign petitions, demonstrate, etc., etc. This is probably true for most of us. It has seemed to me for quite a while that the Democrats in Congress (House and Senate) must think of a dramatic gesture and then have the guts to carry it out together. The chances of this happening can be accurately estimated by looking at the response to Feingold’s undramatic gesture. These are very dark times. (As I was reading this over, I got a robo-call from Wes Clark. I cursed his disembodied voice.)
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
- Arthur Schopenhauer
EPU’d
Shouldn’t Corporations be really, really worried about this too? There are no boundaries. What can be construed as supporting or undermining “National Security†is in entirely the eye of the beholder.
Is it in America’s interest that domestic corporations should have an advantage in bidding on global contracts? To a GOPer, that’s a no-brainer – it makes perfect sense to provide the US company with a bit of inside information about their international competitors. (And for added value, of course, once a company compromises itself by accepting such “helpâ€, it will be in the government’s pocket forever).
And now we know (as opposed to just *knowing*, as we did before) that the government knows about domestic calls as well. To these people, National Security concerns would justify fostering the growth of loyal, patriotic companies run by right-thinking, loyal and trustworthy (GOP) people. A little heads-up now and again about who their flaky, traitorous, liberal, unionized competitors have been in discussions with. What’s the harm in that?
(Sorry – I’m a bit stupid today)
One word: Impeach.
Splash @86 & Ed N Sted;
I totally agree about Leo Strauss. I read Shadia Drury’s “The Political Ideas of Leo Strauss” last year. It’s a tough read for the lay reader such as myself, but I got enough to see where these ****ers are coming from, and it ain’t pretty. The problem, as I see it, is that these are complex concepts that are difficult to communicate to the average joe. If somebody smarter than myself could come up with a way of explaining what’s REALLY going on, with examples, in terms that anyone could understand, I, for one, would be extremely grateful. They would be doing their country a service. The connection between Strauss’ ideas and the current situation needs to be aired to a wider public.
Susan (and the rest of us) what I understood in the telecom world was that when a law enforcement agency asked for intercept “in a lawful way”, the telecom company was obliged, by their license to operate in that country, to cooperate.
The trick is that telecom companies do not have legal experts on staff to evaluate the intercept request/demand. There are exact operations procedures established to verify the request, notify the operations staff to cooperate and begin tracing or intercept actions, and so on.
The idea of challenging the intercept request would not even be on the list. It is assumed at the telecom that law enforcement knows what they are doing and have gone through channels (meaning: a search warrant).
No one ever thought that the government would set up a bogus program and claim it was legit without going through channels. We are in the twilight zone.
I wrote an email to the ethical and legal compliance head at Qwest to tell them that as an American who chooses to live elsewhere I admired their refusal to comply with this criminal NSA activity. Even if they refused only because they felt it was illegal and didn’t want to possibly be exposed to prosecution down the road, that is what laws are for. If the legal system is working then most people do the right thing, even if it isn’t immediately profitable or advantageous to them.
That is why the US is supposed to be a nation of laws and not men. The law was essentially a man, and whatever he thought right in the days of Kings and Emperors. George the woefully inadequate wants to be the law in his new Empire, at least as much as Dead Eye will let him be. If you are going to return to divine rule by one man, at least pick a better example of a man. That would leave available most every man in America except some of those that vote for him and those he as hired/appointed to work for him (technically they are supposed to work for us, but we know better than that).
Unfortunately the Bu$h Crime Family running the country and their favored corporate cronies feel no need to obey the law. The law doesn’t apply to them in “wartime,” which is just part of the reason they believe it is and should be wartime all war,all the time for eternity if possible.
I sent the email to Qwest expressing my appreciation of their action (or inaction) to:
Corporate.Compliance@ qwest.com
Just finished calling and emailing my congressional rep. and my senators both locally and in D.C. telling them it’s time that Congress got off their asses and showed some effective outrage at this latest of the many breaches of law and the constitution by Mr. Bush and gang. This story has been on the internet for months. Why is it that USA Today holds so much credibility?
Of course the story of the NSA spying on all Americans is just the tip of the iceberg on the Gonzales plan for ‘justice’ against the American people. The Bush administration always punishes it’s enemies, and surely with the polls where they are today, Bush is highly offended by 3/4 of American citizens who are ‘traitor’s to his mad designs. Mr. Bush’s reassurance that it’s ‘legal’ for the NSA to spy on domestic calls is another way to break it to us easy that we’re living in a ‘legal’ police state. You know….heat the lobsters slowly so they don’t panic and cause a boiling mess.
Specter….Sphincter…..really, whats the difference?
Liz #32
Called Sprint today to see if they are participating in the NSA telephone spying operation and when I stated my question, the operator informed my that I needed to stay on the line for one minute while they loaded a required “software update” to my phone and she was immediately cut off. Way tinfoil hat. I hung up immediately and now am afraid to use my phone.
Now I know what it was like to live in the Soviet Union.
(Thanks for the link.)
The question to ask your elected officials:
[Senator/Representive]: What is your plan to restore Constitutional government to the United States?
Because we sure God-of-your-choice don’t have it now.
Gosh, this would be an awfully nice point for a “Contract with America,” wouldn’t it? Converted to a declarative statement, that is.
This is nice…
http://www.knx1070.com/pages/34518.php
“Fears have surfaced that as many as 200,000 AK-47s shipped by the U.S. to Iraqi security forces may have ended up in the hands of terrorists.
The Northern Ireland newspaper The Daily Mirror reports the 99-ton cache of AK47s was supposed to have been secretly flown out from a U.S. base in Bosnia. But the four planeloads of arms have since vanished.
Orders for the deal originated with the U.S. Department of Defense. But the work was contracted out via a complex web of private arms traders.
And the Moldovan airline used to transport the shipment was criticized by the United Nations in 2003 for smuggling arms to Liberia, a fact uncovered by human rights group Amnesty International.
Amnesty chief spokesman Mike Blakemore said: “It’s unbelievable that no one can account for 200,000 assault rifles. If these weapons have gone missing it’s a terrifying prospect.” American defense chiefs hired an American firm to take the guns from the 90s Bosnian war, to Iraq. However, flights, which supposedly took off between July 2004 and July 2005 were not recorded by air traffic controllers in Baghdad.”
It is high time for some truth.
Okay, here’s some: Netroots are a joke. Shoulda been marching instead of emailing. We’re cargo cult Constitutionalists:
It’s either bodies on the line or pray for a mid-Atlantic tsunami now. For the first time now, I’m afraid there won’t be elections in the fall. This thing is running like a train.
Remember the October surprise, which, if I don’t miss my bet, will be a “terrorist” attack on the Congress (the king doesn’t need em anyway) and the beginning of Adolph Hitler (who was, by the way, elected) was the Reichstag fire (the Reichstag was Germany’s elected parliment)…….well, so anyone want to take bets?
9/11 has shown the weakness in America’s Constitution. People really don’t have to follow it.
Thing is ALL documents about government are not really connected to people unless the people want to be connected to the ideas of a document like the U.S. Constitution.
The U.S. is now beginning to live much like the old Soviet Union.
Has anyone read the Constitution of the old Soviet Union? Oddly enough it is not a bad Constitution. Only problem was nobody wanted to actually follow the laws and ideas of the Soviet Constitution.
And that’s the rub…today half of America is not upset that the ‘elected’ officals are not bothering to follow the laws of the U.S. Constitution.
America has already failed. The question is is America too far gone to recover and find enough people to want to follow the laws of the Constitution…or is it just too hard in today’s world?
T – 62
My take on the “it hurt all of us” – compromising Plame’s network.
FITZ!