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I was going to add this as an update to the previous post on the importance of women in the punditocracy but decided it deserved its own space. From Garance Franke-Ruta of The American Prospect, in the comments:
[O]nce Amy Sullivan leaves the Washington Monthly toward the end of the month, I will have the peculiar honor of being the only female more than half-time political writer left at any of the liberal magazines in Washington. (Michelle Cottle at TNR being the other one, and part-time.) Sigh.
No women staff writers but me and Michelle in Washington at: TNR, TAP, WaMo, MoJo, The Nation, or Salon.
Plenty of women in middle-management, though.
The problem of women being shut out of opinion media, even progressive opinion media, is related to the one you describe of women not voting. Anna Greenberg has done research into this and discovered that a major reason these women don’t vote is they feel like they’re not well-informed and therefore aren’t qualified to vote. One reason they probably don’t feel well-informed is that they don’t keep up with political media as much as men, and I’d wager that one reason they don’t do that is when they turn to it they don’t see anyone who looks like they do or is talking about their concerns in a way they can relate to.
To her critcs I’d just say that Jane is not addressing a problem of identity politics; she’s addressing a problem of politics, period. Joe Trippi said after the last election that if Kerry had been able to get 3 million more single moms to vote he would have won. But good luck trying to get an 85 percent male progressive punditocracy to recognize the importance of such voters to their favored candidate’s electoral success or failure. Men prefer what they prefer and overlook what does not interest them.
This is a problem.
(Update: Kevin Drum writes to say that The Washington Monthly has hired Rebecca Sinderbrand as a new editor.)
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Fitz!
Fitz?!
Fitzarina !
fitzalicious!
This is nuts. I’m sitting cross legged on my bed praying over my laptop on a snack tray that I was first to post Fitz! I need help!
Too true, Jane. Fabulous post.
Is it any wonder that the only solution the lefty opinionators think is “cool” is playing with guns?
Yeah, this from the last FDL post:
“Josh Marshall, Kevin Drum, the inimitable Digby, Glenn Greenwald, Billmon, Atrios and many others…”
Notice something about that list of influential bloggers?
This is my rifle, this is my gun.
One is for shooting, the other for fun …
(unless you are Dick Cheney when you can get off shooting an old man in the face)
You would think WINNING would interest the male progressive punditocracy, wouldn’t you?
ccmask says:
“This is nuts. I’m sitting cross legged on my bed praying over my laptop on a snack tray that I was first to post Fitz! I need help!”
cc, you’d rather be EPU’d? (I tried savin’ ya but it was a split second submit).
How can Bush be considered a tough president if he can’t face an open audience with open questions? How is it possible that one of the poll questions is not “Is President Bush a coward for not holding open questions and answers with regular Americans? I don’t get these crazy polls…..
ccmask 55
…I need help!
try a few days of FDL-detox in the desert, sans wireless. worked for me … for about six hours.
moeman: Do you get extra points if you Fitz and EPU at once?
the blogosphere remains amazingly (blazingly) white…rarely have I encountered amongst lefty blogs arrant racism (except for Aravosis anent Cynthia) … still, the lack of a black political perspective is obvious.
Hello my fabulous friends!
Reposted, in last place in EPU land.
“Garance Franke-Ruta, I loved this piece on 4.25.05. Thanks.
http://www.washingtonmonthly.c…../005937.ph p
I’ll be EPU’d for sure, but check it out, it pertains.”
http://tinyurl.com/a6erq
Help Impeach Today
Now… People think this is a waste of time because even the Dems said that they were not going to impeach (yeah right)…
Keep the pressure on Congress… Talking about impeachment wakes people up… They question, it’s a strong motivator to get people thinking. It also lets Congress know how intense the dissapproval is for this President… They seem to be a little slow on the uptake. So please:
1) Sign petitions if you have not done so
2) Send a letter to Congress (both Senators & House rep)
3) Send a copy to the media
4) Enlist friends and family to help, ask them to chip in time
5) Spread the link around, email it (with a request to forward) post it on a blog, or in the comments of a news story.
Help out!!!
Thanks :)
*ilson, I like the haiku in cryptonomicon:
This is my rifle
There are many like it but
This rifle is mine.
Jane, (from the previous post): “And I am just as guilty as everyone else of not linking to women bloggers enough; it’s just laziness.”
It’s almost amusing to hear you accuse yourself of laziness. Anyone familiar with FDL knows it’s because you can’t find the time. I have no idea how you do all that you do, unless it’s that support staff of half a dozen you haven’t told us about…
ccmask #5 – love the image
Why is Amy Sullivan leaving Washington Monthly? That is brand new news to me! I’m one of those woman readers who always enjoyed her posts on Political Animal, even though they usually provoked massive negative responses from the above-listed male bloggers. Believe it or not, there are lots of Democratic female voters who agree with Amy on the religion topic among other things. I hope her voice will still be heard in the blogosphere.
I should note, however, that The Nation and Salon have a lot of female writers, including political writers, based in New York and elsewhere. Also worth noting is that the two most successful female-run progressive blogs — FDL and HuffPo — are based out of California, so it’s possible what I’m describing is partly a DC thing, rather than a comment on progressive media over all.
Damn, I EPU’d myself. And I know better than to spend a bunch of time on a lengthy comment that will be posted past comment number 100 in a thread…
This month’s AAUW magazine has an article about women and voting; they are working on an initiative titled, “The Power of One Vote”, trying to persuade more women to get out there and vote. Women’s voting stats for non-presidential elections is dismal; I hope that any and all of you working on the DNC’s 50-State Strategy to get out more votes will remember the female voters in every precinct and give them more attention. And I hope that Emily’s List is going to kick ass and take names with GOTV this year; they’ve got plenty of ammo to do it.
ditto *ilson 14. Get me some sunglasses….
“…Plenty of women in middle-management, though.”
That’s a general problem.
I have to laugh. My wife scuffled in “middle management” for YEARS. Her company went BK, was bought up by a bigger company. They lost the DOE contract she’d been working on for a decade (with the company that BK’d). She opted to not resign and sign on with the new incumbent, not knowing whether her new employer would even have a place for her.
Nice decision. They not only had a gig for her, they made her Director of Quality over the entire Environmental Division — which is really her entire former employer (about 6,500 employees) and now, a lot of people formerly HER superiors report to her. No longer “middle management,” she’s senior most female exec in the company.
And she totally kicks butt, too. Love it.
Jane, thanks for highlighting Garance Franke-Ruta’s comments on the earlier thread. I’d wager that one reason they don’t do that is when they turn to it they don’t see anyone who looks like they do or is talking about their concerns in a way they can relate to. This absolutely hits home. As one of my friends once said “We need more places where we can see our faces.”
Judical Watch gets its logs;
http://judicialwatch.org/abramoff-docs.shtml
~~~
ccmask, I’d ask Jane if a combo Fitz!+EPU gets you a Scooby snack.
A response to an EPU’d comment:
klevenstein — 255
I’ve always chalked up 99% of the world’s ills to male domination (actually, any form of domination by brute force).
A fair amount of truth to that. Matriarchal societies value all members equally, while Patriarchal societies have a hierarchical value system — with women and children the lowest valued.
In business organizations, women executives will respond to managerial challenges with uber alpha male attitudes, until the 50% of the managers are women. Then, they shift to a more nurturing and inclusive managerial style.
Perhaps as a man my opinion does’nt matter as much on this one but here goes;Just keep doing what your doing Jane(and Christy).Intelligent,articulate and well informed,FDL is a great read.If you inspire but one woman to stand up,would that not be a great reward?I belive you are reaching many.And by all means,link to those other gals!(I really like Taylor’s blog,hope she gets on the air)
EPU, from prior thread, tnh = emptywheel’s, “thenexthurrah.”
Here I was, almost hitting post on the previous thread, and deciding to check for a new post first. Thus, I have prevented myself from achieving my dream of being EPU’d my first time on FDL. Well, carp.
I was going to say in response to the comment quoted above in Jane’s post…
Jane and Redd (if I may still use the nickname) and the other women bloggers are a big part of the solution. Things are changing thanks to the internets, and their consistent great work will make a positive difference. These days, the source is less important than the message – great work will find a way to rise to the top. Just look at the FDL numbers.
BTW Jane, if you missed my first ever post here, I mentioned that FDL and Digby are my two favorite blogs, regardless of the gender of the people posting. Thanks for a great place to visit!
One of the biggest issues facing women is health care.
How many posts have been health-care related on Firedoglake?
It’s not just about what men prefer.
Bobby G: yes, I also caught that “Plenty of women in middle-management, though”. Isn’t that the glass ceiling?
I really like this post. The assumption that women can be represented by men in politics is simply nuts. It takes men as the norm, and assumes that women, being different, are a ’special interest’ unaffiliated with main-stream politics, and so can safely be relegated to the back of the bus. The impetus behind that style of argument is quite old: blacks used to be ‘represented’ by whites, making actual black representation unnecessary, gays are supposed to be represented by straights, and most recently, illeagl imigrants don’t get to be represented at all. Of course, the end result of this representation is that injustice is white-washed by an assumption that whatever bones are thrown to the ’special interests’ are exactly the right amount, and any more is simply pandering.
Jane,
like you, I was one of the 500 or so people still subscribing to and actually reading The New Republic. Thanks to you, I don’t read it anymore. It shows up here, gets put on a horizontal surface, and eventually gets thrown out in anticipation of a lapsed subscription. You and Christie and the whole female blogroll are where it’s at.
Siasl- welcome. Nice debut. Sorry you didn’t get EPU’d ;)
slothrop,
you just reminded me,I heard on the radio today that the USA was the 2nd to the last in infant mortality rate,as I recall 5 deaths out of a thousand births.The reason given-lack of healthcare.
Valley Girl says:
May 10th, 2006 at 4:18 pm
Bobby G: yes, I also caught that “Plenty of women in middle-management, thoughâ€. Isn’t that the glass ceiling?
_____
Yeah. Cheryl smashed that sucker to a zillion shards. In a Big Swingin’ Dick Environment (lotta engineers & good ol’ boy construction dudes), no less, where they don’t cotton to takin’ orders from a Skirt.
“FDL and HuffPo — are based out of California”
California? ; )
Perhaps I worded that wrong-I ment one spot from being the worst.
Gotsta ask (I do), why you would deem the “Punditocracy” as something worthy of intelligent, honest women (or men for that matter) to strive for? Or its television equivelent the “talking head”?
I think Pundit and Punditocracy are derisive, derogatory terms these days (at least that is how I use it) – invoking the horrofic images of Tweety, Pumpkin Head, Joe Klien, Carville, the even more idiotic pundits on the right, endless cable news discussions by blithering idiots, etc.
Having a voice is one thing, women (or men for that matter) using the the CM’s standards of recognition or medium for how those voices are shared/heard is another.
Which of course raises the metaphysical question: If a commentator lives or publishes outside the beltway, do they make a sound?
or, alternatively: If a commentator is not a “pundit” do they make a sound.
I think the answer is yes.
Do you consider yourself a pundit? You are certainly a popular, important commentator, a voice, but you live in Oregon and publish via/on the Internet (either here or on Huffpo).
I don’t disagree with the sentiment of the post: women’s voices/opinions/solutions are very important and need to be heard, I just don’t get, particularly after the discussion concerning the impact of the Internet, how being a Washington based pundit achieves them. There seem to be better alternatives.
Maybe I miss the point.
Gilliard’s commented before on how white-bread the masthead of The Nation is: it’s one thing to write, another to be a staffer.
While I’m not convinced that Pastor Amy is a net positive, you have to worry that there’s a certain amount of dick-swinging (pardon the imagery) in writing political blogs that tends to marginalise women’s voices. Frankly, Jeanne D’Arc has been a go-to, as has Katherine of Obsidian Wings, Shakes, MBW at Wampum. But when women blog and show passion, they’re far too likely to get the Maryscott O’Connor treatment from the MSM. And that’s shameful.
DMM
2nd to the last in infant mortality rate,as I recall 5 deaths out of a thousand births.The reason given-lack of healthcare.
Also correlates with lack of contraception among poor women.
*ilson 42601 #14 — Oliver Willis and Black Commentator are both pretty good, imo. I have a question, though: we know that progressive men have little problem reading female commentors. But Ann Coulter and the rest of the wingbats seem to do alright with non-progressives, so that would suggest, wouldn’t it, that we women really *don’t* scare people off? What, then, is the problem? Who ARE we really scaring?
Vaughn @ #7 – I believe Digby is a woman.
For a great African-American blogger on race as well as all other political issues, I love Steve Gilliard.
Atrios discusses sexism in blogging (with links!) http://atrios.blogspot.com/200…..8847770183
If the wingers have their way there will be no contraception-end of story
Well, ok. These last 2 aerticles talk about female stuff. And they talk about how various “women’s issues” are not being addressed on the national level.
What exactly are these female issues? Of course, there’s abortion…by definition, that will always be a big deal for women. But…what else? Oh, ok….sex harrassment stuff…but I think we have plenty of laws on that already? I just don’t know what other national level “female issues” are out there.
Ghostman
Hi Jane Hamsher,
Thanks for all your great work. I just wanted to point out a typo
in this piece:
-I was going to add this as an update to the previous post on the importance of women in the punditocracy but decided it deserve(S) its own space.
Hope this helps, and keep rockin’!
Hopefully we will all have something to talk about when (if)
Fitz schedules a press conference for Friday.
Wouldn’t that be nice?
One of the biggest issues facing women is health care.
How many posts have been health-care related on Firedoglake?
Kate Steadman is leading the way here.
More women atheist bloggers please!
“Also correlates with lack of contraception among poor women.”
Also correlates with the fact that OB/GYN has just about the highest malpractice insurance rates (’cuz you’re at risk for a LONG time post-partum), driving a lot of docs out (I personally know one eminent local OB/GYN doc who has NEVER been sued, but his rate increases have shut him down). It’s becoming a chronically underserved area in the U.S.
Ghostman 46
how about equal pay for equal work?
just for starters.
ck #26,
One of the key findings of the UN Millenium Goals project was that families and communities prosper much more when the women get the financial income, because the women will reinvest the $$ into the group, whereas the men will… well, you can imagine.
Someone asked about the word asshat, a word with growing utility in our oh-so shrill and radical lefty bloggy discourse. Here’s what wikipedia has to say….
Asshat is a slightly more trendy and less severe variation of asshole, graphically describing someone who has his “head up his ass” (i.e., not knowing what’s going on), or a variation of “butthead”. In the former sense, it is suggested that one is wearing one’s ass for a hat, or alternately, a hat for one’s ass (Some people view it as that from the waist up, you are a hat for your own ass.). A more modern usage of asshat describes a person doing something stupid, and can apply to anyone: “The boss is up to asshattery because he broke the computer even though he knew he was doing the wrong thing.” This meaning was popularized by Something Awful character Jeff K.
The word is popular in many online communities, serving as a more palatable version of its antecedent. According to Google’s Usenet statistics, the word only saw a token appearance every day or two starting in July, 1999, but following a slow rise in 2002, it entered popular usage in May, 2003.
As it continued to grow in popularity, asshat began to be used by online gamers, in first person shooter and massive multiplayer role playing games. It was a commonplace word on servers where vulgar language was not allowed.
The insult “assclown” is used in a similar fashion, although it is not as common. “Assclown” has become well known among fans of the WWE due to wrestler Chris Jericho using it during his promos, especially his “Highlight Reel”; the term was also famously used in the film Office Space to describe singer-songwriter Michael Bolton.
“Asstard” is another rarer variant upon the ass* theme. It is possibly a contraction of “asshole” and “retard” and has almost the same meaning as “asshole”, but with a greater implied connotation of stupidity. An identically spelt version of the same word is a contracttion of ‘asshole’ and ‘bastard’, with a commensurately more abusive meaning.
On Hardball right now, there are three middle-aged white men arguing with each other. How can women resist? :)
ccmask @ 13. Of course you do. I keep score, don’t worry. I’m also working on a play at home version for you all.
Valley Girl at 34 – thanks for the welcome. I think I’ll live ;-)
op99 – I went back and read your joke and link from the previous thread, you probably didn’t get a laugh due to the sensitive nature of your ribbing. However, your link (to male axiety on college campus’ due to females taking the initiative) is actually illustrative of where I see this issue going.
Increasingly, women are simply not taking the whole male domination thing lying down (so to speak). Wherever there is a gap, women are stepping up to close it. Jane, Christy and the rest are doing it in the blog-o-sphere. Others are doing so in the office (see BobbyG above). These days, tell a young woman she can’t do anything and watch in awe at the response. There is real change in the air. It may be coming 30 years later than most of us thought it would, but it is coming. For one, I’m sure my 2 year old daughter appreciates it.
it’s safer for a baby to be born in Havana than Indianapolis — this has to do with malpractice insurance how?
51 punaise….well, ok….but I just do not “recognize” this as some burning issue. We’ve got plenty of laws on this, and they’re good laws…..is there some sort of problem still with companies paying people, working the same job, at different pay scales? I just thought that was done away with.
Ghostman
Well said punaise, as per usual.
thanks cbl 72– just in time. Eagleburger is an asstard.
Steaming as I watch him and wolfie.
Ghostman (46) — it’s the other way around. What political topic is NOT a women’s issue, given that we comprise more than 50% of the population?
And yet we are heard from virtually not at all in terms of political journalism. It’s not like we might not have a different slant on things — like war, childcare, national healthcare, and so on.
The other 800 lb. gorilla in the room that we are not addressing is the dearth of women in elected office. It’s bad when a white male counterpart points it out to me (and really, REALLY bad for Republicans when they are pointedly the worst offenders) that there is a gross insufficiency in relation to our proportion of the population. Somebody check my math, but there’s 13 Senators out of 100 that are women…that’s less than 1 Senator for every 1 million females based on 2000 Census data.
That SUCKS. ON. ICE.
EPU’d from previous thread:
10 minute special for BobbyG
‘No children were left behind in the making of this’
;>)
John Casper – I’m viral, and spreading! Awesome. My ego is feeling pretty stoked at the moment.
Ghostman – it’s not just laws, but the culture, the economy, society in general. that was just the first example that came to mind. I’m sure our female counterparts could cite plenty of real-life personal examples of not getting equal pat for truly equal work. I gotta leave it at that for now…
on gender disparity in pay: under Bush, the country is backsliding. We got up to 76.6 but in 2004 slid back down to 75.5
http://www.usatoday.com/money/…..omen_x.htm
Why does Bush hate chicks?
From tail of last thread –
I think we owe a lot to Betty Bowers who really caused my first ever full blown coffee-spew-on-the-keyboard.
ralphinlex
*ilson46201 says:
May 10th, 2006 at 4:33 pm
it’s safer for a baby to be born in Havana than Indianapolis — this has to do with malpractice insurance how?
____
It’s one contributing factor. It is simply getting harder to get good full-term pregancy management care. Icreasingly fewer OB/GYN docs, lower reimbursements, higher liability insurance costs. Driving a lot of docs out, particularly the older, more experienced ones.
Not just about “being born” in country X.
OT – I am going crazy waiting for Fitz. I’m just going to have to start assuming that he will not be announcing anything this week, for my own sanity.
Jon Garfunkel offers Promoting Women Bloggers: A Timeline of Relevant Discussions with appropriate links
“and I’d wager that one reason they don’t do that is when they turn to it they don’t see anyone who looks like they do or is talking about their concerns in a way they can relate to.”
I don’t buy it. First of all for most of us I think the “they don’t look like me I won’t listen to them” is sufficiently ridiculous that we won’t even consider it a factor. I have no idea what most of the pundits I listen to look like, what sexual orientation they are, and in some cases what sex they are. Doesn’t matter.
Mystery Pollster could be an Inuit Lesbian. Don’t care. Their analysis is damn useful.
And in those cases where I think I know if I turned out to be wrong it wouldn’t matter in the slightes. I assume Glenn Greenwald is a guy based on the name. If not, it really doesn’t matter.
Frankly if there is anything to this argument it does highlight a sexism but not on the part of men.
As for the second issue (talking about their concerns in a way they can relate to) there may be a point there but really how does a woman in america relate differently to presidential illegal actions than a guy does? I think those issues are pretty universal and don’t need a blue and pink version in order to sell them.
Now that having been said I do think opinion journalism could do with more women. However blaming women not voting on it is pretty tenuous case at best.
darkblack -
Awesome. Saved to disk, LOL!
I think that some of those women who don’t feel well enough informed have very, very little time to try to news and information. Still, most of the cooking and cleaning falls to women, on top of their outside jobs. With young children involved, I have no idea how many women have time for much of any time–they try to get info from the news as they’re managing household chores, etc.
And they probably sense they’re not getting good info form the MCM*, so, as I do about schoolboard elections, they don’t vote unless they can learn about the candidates.
We desperately need real information from the various media. With all its problems, thank goodness for NPR.
*Mainstream Coporate Media
Promoting Women Bloggers: A Timeline of Relevant Discussions
Here, here! The main reason I rely on FDL is because of Jane and so it is with Arianna. I’m a 73-year-old whose husband USED to tell me what to think politically, following the “media’s” spoon-fed pablum….Thanks for being there for all of us!!!
My general impression from talking to people I know ( not you guys here, obviously :) is that most women get their news from TV and talk radio – and you know what they’re hearing there. They say that they are busy and TV and radio are easier than taking the time to read, even on the internet. The Progressives need to get the message to these women somehow that we exist and have an alternative to the crap they’re bombarded with.
Evil Parallel Universe (39) — it’s about shaping opinion, EPU. There are still MANY people who get a substantial portion of political information from the punditocracy in MSM, and unfortunately, these people are the most consistent voters being in the 50+ age range and more often white than minority. My in-laws and my parents, for example; the in-laws are NOT wired, and the parents consume whatever gets pushed at them by the big news outfits on cable and on the internet. If that’s all they are getting, it’s no wonder my father is worried about “the gay agenda”, as one example of distorted news and its reception.
Women should have a much larger role in shaping perception — and women should NOT be limited to the harpies of the right, like Man-hands and Ol’ 60 Grit and that self-hating Philippino. God, if that was all my parents and in-laws had to base their knowledge of women upon…
61, Rayne…sure, there’s an issue of…I guess, UNDERrepresentation of “female bodies” in politics. But I seperate that from the whatever this “national female issues” might be. I recognize abortion as one of them….equal pay, as pointed out by punaise….but what else? That’s what I’m mystified about.
Ghostman
OfT: Wrt to high malpractice insurance, my understanding is most physicians pay dues to the American Medical Association. AMA in turn artificially restricts the number of Med School graduates/ per year in the U.S. This causes the shortage of physicians, but it maintains a high income for those who “get in.” The chronic shortage, however, is also probably at least partly to blame for the high number of errors which in turn contributes to more law suits. The physicians, however, after they get done paying their AMA dues, continue to complain about the high cost of malpractice insurance.
It seems to me that the grades and MCAT scores of those who get in and don’t get in are neglible. It’s not unreasonable that we could double the number of graduating physicians very quickly, without seeing a significant drop in their quality. More physicians, per patient, probably means a dramatic drop in the number of errors and a corresponding increase in the quality of health care.
I guess it’s time to repeat what I said on the last thread: I have long noticed that a predominantly-female entity seems much nicer and more civilized to work with …
ralphinlex 66 –
Even though Betty Bowers is a man in drag?
ck-regardless, the coffee spewed.
ralphinlex
I agree with Tlaloc @ 70. I think we imbue the CM, and their pundits and punditry, with too much power/influence. I have brought this up before, but if their power/influence was so great, then Chimpco and and repugs in general would have much better poll numbers. Somehow, people (whether male of female) have come to the discision that Chimpco and repugs aren’t for them. Did this happen in a vacuum? I doubt it – somehow the vast majority of Americans have gleened the information necessary to reach those conclusions, DESPITE the CM and their pundits and punditry.
From last thread:
I think this is gets at the potential quality and e-quality of the web as a communication/influence medium.
apropos media bias and the news: “…but facts are stubborn things!” or “The truth will out.”
how about affordable child-care for single working moms?
75 denise,
Satellite radio is opening things up to a lot more diversity, too.
or affordable child-care for married working moms?
Garance sez: …so it’s possible what I’m describing is partly a DC thing, rather than a comment on progressive media over all.
Yes. Duh. It’s not just possible; it’s true. So why not focus your criticism on the hand you apparently hope someday feeds you?
Don’t forget Laura Rozen at warandpiece.com
punaise #85 – Didn;t you hear? Rick Santorum has a solution for that – you just stay home and let the hubby be the breadwinner. Sacrifice is good for your character ;-)
yeah! Ms. Rozen is a daily must-read for sure !
85, punaise…ok, there’s one I recognize as a national female issue….I don’t know what the pro/con arguments might be, but that seems to be an issue.
Ghostman
Ghostman – laws make no difference when you don’t have the power to enforce them and most working women do not have the luxury (legal retainers, backup money for use during unemployment, etc) of suing, etc. And a lot of the glass ceiling is hard to prove – competent women are often treated as a problem rather than a resource.
On women bloggers or pundits – I think we continue to have a culture in which women are unused to raising their voices. Pundits and many/most bloggers have a certain sense of being entitled (and at times divinely annointed) to have an opinion yet so many women, including young smart women, are not so sure they have anything important to say. Sit in any group of adults – say your local political meeting – and watch how many women simply sit there quietly but then do all the work. Until we actively invite and encourage women to speak up and then shut up long enough for them to find their voice – we’ll continue to be a male dominated blogosphere.
One of the awesome things about Jane is that she speaks so clearly that the rest of us think “Hey, if Jane can say THAT, I can at least say …”
One of the main reasons I read FDL, along with Pam’s House Blend, is to get a woman’s perspective on things. It still amazes me that we haven’t had a woman to lead our country and Pakistan did.
Speak loud and proud is what I say to all the woman out there.
Didn’t post this on the last thread, arriving too late, but this might also be a place to let FDLers not already in the loop know about the second annual BlogHer conference (see http://blogher.org/about-blogher-conference-06 –I can’t get the link to display). The first conference in 2005 was the more or less spontaneous response to the disingenous I’d-link-to-women-bloggers-if-there-were-any stock in trade of the Technorati A-List.
Also of possible interest wrt to the recent thread covering the dearth of progressive training/mentoring traditions, FDLers might like to know about the Midwest Academy, a training “school” for organizers, founded by Heather Booth in the early /70s. I believe that Andy Stern (SEIU) and Jan Schakowsky (D-IL) are among the alumnae/i.
punaise #85 oops, I meant get married and let the hubby be the breadwinner etc…
Billmon weighs in on le e’tat, Bush (pardon my French) –
http://billmon.org/archives/002437.html
… Unfortunately for Jeb — and the younger members of the family waiting in line behind him — it appears the “Bush magic” (a political quality somewhat akin to Walter Mondale’s famous “Norwegian charisma”) has finally worn off. The mob is back in the streets again, looking to set Mademoiselle Guillotine up with a blind date. …
John Casper # 78 — I think the real culprit in the (truly alarming) rise in malpractice insurance is… the insurance industry! The real figures are pretty hard to get at, but they do seem to suggest that there has not been any rise in quantity or quality of lawsuits/awards. The real rise is simply in rates, since the insurers figured out about 20 years ago that they could raise them at will and blame Trial Lawyers (conveniently Democratic). imo.
come on, ladies – help me out here!
Duncan Black took note of this and asked something about whether the ladies are smart enough to discuss Social Security. Let’s review who does in BlogLand: me and my other two Angrybears (all male), Duncan, Brad DeLong, Mark Thoma – whoops, I’m not helping here as I’m only mentioning the smart males. But then we spend a lot (too much maybe) mocking the GUYS over at National Review et al. I have to believe that Amy Sullivan is smarter on this issue. OK, Kathleen Hayes is an idiot but she works for CNN.
Now I’m being unfair writing this on a blog where the smart ladies talk legal issues so non-lawyer me can follow Team Libby’s nonsense. So help me out here ladies – you are the female bloggers who can run circles around the guys at NRO or Tim Russert. I know there has to be a bunch – but being a tunnel vision male economist, I’m drawing a blank.
Yvonne — you rock.
Do you know why I love FireDogLake????
It’s the advertisements! I clicked on this link within Jane’s Amazon Link Ad on the right side of the screen… And I just can’t help butt thinking that as much as Jane talks about running on the beach with her dog, she’d look great in these!
http://www.amazon.com/gp/produ…..?n=1036592
Just a hunch though since all I’ve ever seen is a her little black & white picture up on Huffpo.
Rayne @ 76 – See my #81. And I wouldn’t disagree that women should have larger role in shaping opinion. The point is that you can shape opinion without being a pundit or part of the CM, and no matter what, you are not going to be able to “reach” everyone whether or not they hear/see what you have to say. The polling data is on my side concerning reaching people regardless of age or gender (for the mots part).
Would I prefer that the CM be more balanced both as to political slant and gender, yeah, I would. But women don’t need to be a part of the punditocracy to achieve influence, to lead opinion.
John Casper says:
May 10th, 2006 at 4:46 pm
In the second paragraph of your post, didn’t you mean to say this?
I got EPU’d on the last thread so wanted to repost this:
I want to recommend the wonderful political posts by Jane Smiley (the novelist) over at HuffingtonPost. Her ability to say exactly what I meant to say about the Bush administration and the right wing, and with such eloquence, clarity, succinctness and passion, when I myself only end up sputtering in outrage, has impressed me over several months. Give yourself a treat by reading all her previous posts. (And she’s no slouch as a novelist, either.)
OT – just another item in a long list of evidence that the Chimpy/Darth Cheney dictatorship is destroying the reputation of America:
Putin to Boost Russian Military, Economy
sorry if it was posted b4
OT punaise- I am progressing with my Pimsleur tapes for learning French. All audio. Mais je rechere un peu de la Francais ecrit. Il y a une probleme avec votre reponse peut-etre? Est ce que possible que vous ne voulez pas nourrisser des grenouille?
I don’t read FDL because it’s run by two women. I look at it because it’s good and smart. Very good, and very smart. And it suits me.
One of the reasons I read FDL is because it does have a distinct female vibe to it. Part of it’s usefulness comes expressly because it has a unique female angle on current topics althought I can not for the life of me articulate why. I am of the firm belief that No One is every going to telling me the Truth about Anything. You simply have to absorb as many facets of an issue as time and energy allow and then make your own sense of it. As a white male, FDL lends a very welcome counter-balancing touch to my male dominated “Jewel Net of Indra” truth vortex quest.
The Truth about any subject is an evolving verb, not a stagnant noun. I think of the truth as a
mirage massage, you can sense it but never seem to be able to put your finger on it.
Thank you Stephen Parrish, CPA in your 104.
Is it too obvious to remark that this clearly is not an accident of fate or an act of god, but an intentional (in both the agonic and philosphical/phenomenological senses) act?
If there are few–or no–women writing in influential blog-spaces on the (soi-disant) ‘left,’ this is an act of exclusion which redounds to the benefit of some ‘epistemic’ interests: forces and associations of opinions, iticaprivileges, and resources aimed at the creation of one (and only one) version of ‘truth’ (what Foucault meant when he described ‘discourses’).
Grad school story (yes, i’m an elite): A prof with whom i became friends–we were generational age-mates; but he continued his education whereas i spun off into dilettantism–provided me with this bit of understanding:
“When you are driven to compare what officialdom says with what it does, and the comparison indicates contradictions, do not doubt the reality of the contradictions. Instead, try to imagine in what context that which seems false would be true.”
The theory of critique in a short graf.
Thanks, Doug…
Nate:
That same Amazon ad appeared for me too the other day – right above Ann “adam’s apple” Coulter’s new book
And the Republican Rubber Stamp House of Representatives has just voted to extend tax cuts 2 more years – till 2010.
And the fed has increased interest rates another 1/4%.
Higher interest rates, higher oil and gas prices = consequence of a corrupt congress which favors the wealthy at the expense of ordinairy working people.
Brilliant Rovian strategy.
I wonder if they’d rubber stamp my mortgage?
Is that a photo of P.J. Harvey?
VG 107 – I’m heading out the door to a meeting. A plus tard, peut-etre?
FYI, the last time I recall ghostman on a thread, he insulted Jane, because in his opinion, she was denigrating the memory of fallen U.S. soldiers. A bunch of us asked him to apologize for what was an unfuckinglyunbelieveable comment. He ignored the relatively polite requests and just continued to weasel, that he hadn’t written what he had written.
Doesn’t Alex (?) Katz at TNR count? I just saw her on a panel on Darfur a few days ago.
I amaze myself sometimes…with my stupidity.
I just found out the other day why so many old blues songs had such mysogynist lyrics. It was cos they were about the BOSS – not the old lady at all.
If you were caught singin’ bout how mean and cruel the BOSS was then you could cop a floggin’ …or even much worse. ( Castration )
This is a deep thread – this could fill the Fitzvoid abyss following Chimpeachment and don’t forget the sexual politics of this, the ‘ outing’ of the mans wife could be the key to this entire mystery.
Their Sneaky Sexism is what bought the evil claven undone!?
Discuss in 1000 words or less.
I visit many blogs each day, but the one where I live (whether or not I comment) is run by a Jane and a Christy. Your reach (which virtually guaranteed that Gene Lyons would quickly hear about your post) is a function of quality. (Another sign of quality is the increasing number of Ralphs you’re attracting.)
On Countdown now, Shuster linked Abramoff to Rove.
Turley ripping Bush and Congress.
Turley totally rocks on KO!!!
Yeah, this from the last FDL post:
“Josh Marshall, Kevin Drum, the inimitable Digby, Glenn Greenwald, Billmon, Atrios and many others…â€
Notice something about that list of influential bloggers?
I think Digby’s gender is still a mystery. Not that that changes things significantly – just a minor point.
Well, I guess the only burning national female issue seems to be affordable child care for working moms. I suppose then, it would be wise for a Democratic candidate to include this in his/her platform.
On women participating in blogging…I don’t think it’s an “access” problem? I mean, with a little money, can’t anyone start up a blog? Why more women don’t do this is unknown to me.
Ghostman
John Casper @ 117– thanks for that!
Is that a photo of P.J. Harvey?
Shirley Manson. Bartcop would be proud. Um.
Well there’s Michelle Malkin and Anne Coulter and Laura Ingraham, etc. Sad to say that the right wingers are doing a better job here than the left.
Note: I am not a troll. I want the liberals to get their act together on this issue.
jonathan turley is giving a brilliant refutation of the criminality of bush on countdown. watch the rerun if you missed it.
here’s his op ed from the chicago tribune equating the bush regime to the sopranos:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/…..entary-hed
The front page of HuffingtonPost usually looks like the yearbook photo from Augusta National Golf Club. Women themselves are complicit in this male-only stuff.
Women political writers have 10 times the balls and much thicker skin than I do. I don’t know how they do it. I admit to sometimes getting my feelings hurt in the comments sections of blogs! I can’t imagine what it must be like for them in the professional world.
43: Digby is a woman? Why do I read that blog picturing the writer as looking like Howard Beale?
May I suggest a few more for the list?
I have learned a lot from The Christian Progressive Liberal aka The Political Junkie. Brilliant takedown of some corrupt politicians (and Wal-mart apologists if I recall).
It’s more of a journal than a blog maybe, but there are a number of women among the writers at Black Commentator.
I’m happy to leave Digby in peaceful privacy if Digby so desires. The writing style on the blog makes more sense to me if I think “woman” than “man”, but who knows whether I have an accurate model?
You guys (FDL) got me to read the fabulous Taylor Marsh.
Less humor but more international news shows up at Muhajabah’s blog (I’m not sure whether that’s her name). Might not agree with every point, but it’s a good source, & there’s quite a range on her blogroll!
I don’t often read Riverbend because I usually cry when I do. (Yes, that’s also meant as a compliment.)
The Blogs To Which I am Addicted are,
FDL, The News Blog, Crooks and Liars, & Bob Geiger’s cartoon picks
The Blogs To Which I go for Great Reporting but don’t obsess on are,
Juan Cole, Glenn Greenwald, TPMmuckracker, ThinkProgress, BradBlog
Digby, Atrios, & HuffingtonPost are wonderful (for different reasons), but the commenters there tend to yell at each other so much! Even at the News Blog (Steve Gilliard & Jen) — I had to laugh, Ms. Howell started howling about those awful criticisms she’d received; they were nothing on the first comment-reply I got on TNB over bad copy-editing!
Okay I’ll shut up now…
FDL rocks!
Nate # 102 — i’m guilty of having similar ideas run through my mind’s eye even though the intellectual fare that Jane & Christy cook up & dish out is a lot more nutritious than what i can find elsewhere
CaptainVideo — the right puts out women like Coulter and Malkin because they are good shills. They don’t think for themselves and they have NO original ideas … they just spew the male misogynist party line in a particularly hateful way.
Why? Because they are embodied red herrings. There job is to counter the voice, thoughts and experiences of authentic women, who speak from a genuine feminine perspective.
I mean, with a little money, can’t anyone start up a blog? Why more women don’t do this is unknown to me.
Who needs money? I have a blog complete with current events video, commentary, flash animation, timely breaking stories etc etc…
It doesn’t cost me a DIME! Just a little of my time. I wish MORE women would start getting a hell of a lot louder! It seems like whenever the world or our nation starts coming off the rails because of the tyranny of evil MEN, it’s only when the women come together as a force and exert themselves the the world shuts up and pays attention.
That goes for every nation. When Iran finally has a day of total gender equality. It will be because women made it so. Not the “generosity” or “wisdom” of men.
I had no idea who ran FDL when I first visited. I couldn’t believe it was just two people posting all that stuff for awhile. Thought it was some kind of hippie blog commune or some other such thing.
The extraordinarily retrograde sexism of US society is getting very very old. I suppose the US will be the last rich, middle, or poor; Western or Eastern; big or small; secular or non-secular country on the planet that will debate whether it is “OK” or “acceptable” to have a woman president, and will do so until forever, I guess. Meanwhile there are thousands of women, some still undergraduates, who would do much better than current Pres.
Check out Digby -other day had a post that right wing religious nuts are going to oppose immunization against virus that causes cervical cancer because it is best given at 10 years of age. So, they say this will encourage 11 year old girls to go out and have sex. I guess we should stop rubella immunizations in 9 year old girls, because that will encourage them to get pregnant when they are 10.
The pathetic and increasingly psychopathological sexual hysteria in US religious cultuer just has to stop. It is really ridiculous and disconcerting to see this nonsense from grown up people.
Hey guys! January 20, 2004 Abramoff visited the White House. Isn’t that the date of the SOTUS?
Is that a photo of P.J. Harvey?
Shirley Manson. Bartcop would be proud. Um.
Only a couple of hipsters from the Athens-Raleigh axis could be so… so… well informed.
nicely done timewarp!
43 and 130 – I always thought of Digby as a man also so I went over to Digby and started reading picturing a woman writing and it definitely works. Digby could very well be a woman. Isn’t Digby going to be at DailyKos? I can;t go but someone is going to have to let us all know the truth.
Ghostman, you oughta walk a mile in a woman’s moccasins before you get all dismissive of our “issues”. Let’s see, get up first in your household, singlehandedly get everyone including yourself and your man if you have one out the door, go to your crap job for crap pay (relative to a man), in which you lag your male counterparts because they could concentrate on career advancement while you and their wives were having babies and raising them. Then come home and continue to do 75% of the domestic chores. And I haven’t even gotten warmed up yet. How’s that for starters?
yep, ccmask.
twolf1 says:
Nate:
That same Amazon ad appeared for me too the other day – right above Ann “adam’s apple†Coulter’s new book
Ewwww!
An additional plus to FDL is that generally commenters recognize trolls and do not engage.
Go to any J-school in America and the classrooms are bursting at the seams with female students.
133, nate: I’m by no means a techie….so, basically there’s no real financial barrier to women starting up blogs. Maybe it’s just a timeline thing….in another 5 or so years more women will blog, just by natural processes.
Ghostman
Don’t overlook Scout and Athenae at First Draft, several of the creators of E Pluribus Media, and of course, MaryScott O’Conner. Over at kos, mcjoan, georgia10, and several other women are achoring the front these days. And of course, Arianna.
Someone mentioned that is Digby is female, and that actually brings up a point to consider. On the Internet, nobody knows you’re a dog, or a woman, either, unless you want them to know. So there may be more out there than you know … you just don’t know.
#139 – op99 – you are so right on the money! This is the scenario for so many women.
Ghostman 124 — On women participating in blogging…I don’t think it’s an “access†problem? I mean, with a little money, can’t anyone start up a blog? Why more women don’t do this is unknown to me.
This is a very important point you make. Please go back and find the part where I mention the problem of not enough women blogging so that everyone can take part in the discussion. I think it is imperative that you do this, so please don’t make any more comments until you take care of this extremely important task, okay?
Thanks.
Bush Nominee Rated ‘Unqualified’ by ABA
WASHINGTON – The American Bar Association rated one of President Bush’s judicial nominees “not qualified” Wednesday, prompting a call from a liberal group for the president to withdraw the Mississippi lawyer’s nomination.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200…..sh_nominee
Ghostman – your persistent desire to not learn, to not hear what is being said marks you as a fool.
Sorry, but the news that Amy Sullivan’s out at the Monthly is met with nothing but smiles here. As for Franke-Ruta, wasn’t she just pissing all over the blogs as being unfit company for “print” journalists like herself?
I don’t give a shit if she’s male, female, or all of the above; she can go fuck herself.
I am convinced that Digby is a kind of collective consciousness that partakes of many aspects of human kind, depending on requirement of any given situation. But after a wingnut blogger challenged Digby to a fight, one commenter who apparently knows Digby said something that indicates that if Digby is a women, it is a very large, hair, muscular women who can beat the stuffing out of a large segment of US population. So, I have been curious to see a picture of this Digby phenomenon ever since.
115 Thesaurus Rex says:
May 10th, 2006 at 5:09 pm
Is that a photo of P.J. Harvey
Yep = Shirley Manson of Garbage, who rocks hard.
139, op99…..you’ve simply misinterpreted me. I’m sure not being dismissive. I’m just trying to find out what the burning national women’s issues are. Affordable child care seems to be a big issue, hence my suggestion that Democratic candidates may just want to include this issue in their campaign.
Ghostman
Jane, 147, you are just brutally elegant. That guy is too fucking stupid to live.
OTOH: When I saw Christy on C-span a while back, she looked almost exactly as I pictured her – Brenda Star. I want to know if she washes her hair in Lovely Soap.
DMM @ #35 Be wary of mortality figures for infants — the US counts this stat **starting from “moment of birth,”** whereas in some other countries, it is counted beginning at 48 hours after birth. (I learned about this in a conversation with a US OBGyn, who is very concerned about ‘under-reporting in places like Africa and S America, so believe it is legit info.)
——-
I’ve been in many meetings where the attention given to women’s comments, or proposals, receive subtly less time/focus than to proposals by whatever Alpha Male Kahuna Of The Moment seems to be weighing in on a topic. Much of the political conversation occurs in commercespeak, and I’ve seen too few women really master that and then use that lingo as a bridge to other topics. It’s starting to happen, but still in its infancy.
I dream that someday, someone will produce a film that includes a scene where — when the heroine is checking out her groceries late at night (exhausted from work) — the checkstand publications have titles like, “Safe Neighborhood Design Tips,” and “Watershed Keeper’s Monthly,” and “LifeCycles” with monthly articles on habitat enhancement, or how to work with your local city to slow down cars on your street. Articles would explain to readers how to locate and read a variety of local documents, or EIS reports. In my dreamworld, the checker is a man, over 35 with daycare woes. Both go home to piles of laundry, but late at night, they can at least read a magazine article (or web video) that helps them figure out how to stand up for themselves.
Magazines like ‘Bride” and “Self” would be out of sight, as would anything to do with MY house/car/abs… So many of our narratives reinforce selfish, self-focused action over communal issues and skills.
One thing that I’ve noticed is that in the political process, too few women have the confidence to really master the materials and documents that are required to speak with authority. When a woman does that, men notice. And so do other women. But it’s tough getting enough women into those spots when too few teenage girls hit the math and science courses hard enough. (And I don’t mean to take this thread so far off topic, but it’s all connected to who says what, to whom, where, and with what authority.)
America is a corporate culture in which incredible corruption (including sexual favors) is now seeping into public consciousness, at an historical moment when we are having to adapt to global economic, social, and demographic shifts. The Bu$hCo narrative has led this nation to utter disaster, and I find it somewhat entertaining that one of their moves is to “change messengers” and bring in Mr Snowjob.
If you want a good, solid view of gender issues, class, and politics, take a look at environmental politics. These tend to break down by class, as well as by gender. However, post-Katrina, some very fascinating changes are starting to occur. It used to be that “environmentalism” was the purvue of affluent, white, well-educated citizens; it appears that is beginning to shift.
Next questions then become, “who tells that future narrative (about how the molecules that spew out of your exhaust pipe end up in the streams, then enter that salmon you buy at the store…” These are topics that contain a lot of science-based info, but have traditionally been VERY important to women.
Significantly, this is a narrative about which the Bu$hCo crowd, as well as the Sunday Talk Show hosts, OReilly, ad infinitum, have *ZERO* credibility, background, or communicative power.
As women get a damn clue that the world is being poisoned, which is why their kids have asthma and a hundred other problems, expect them to become politized.
But who tells that story? Who helps them get a f*cking clue about how to look out for themselves? At least Oprah has a damn clue — there’s a start. Need more like her. And more like RH and Jane. Thx again for what you do.
One of the things I love about FDL is how friendly it is. ITs a lot like hanging out at the kitchen table drinking coffee. There aren’t a lot of egos running amok, saying “I am always right and you are always wrong” – a phenomenon which is all too common on some of the -er- macho blogs (both left and right) and really is just abusive! There is a real sense of community here which encourages the voices of the many instead of the very loud few.
I read this the other day and it seems somewhat apropos to post now. It’s a disturbing read, but worth it, imho. Much more at the link.
>>>>>>>>>>
Like most female soldiers, I learned the hard way that men dominate military culture. We are stuck in a system that makes it difficult to report abuse because of fear of reprisal. Even the military itself admitted in a June 2005 report by the Defense Task Force on Sexual Harassment and Violence at the Military Service Academies, “harassment is the more prevalent and corrosive problem, creating an environment in which sexual assault is more likely to occur.”
Just ask any woman in uniform – sexual harassment is a common experience on base. I remember on the day of boot camp graduation, the same drill sergeant who had threatened to “rip off my head and shit in my neck” for a minor infraction during training grabbed my arm in the on-base store and pressured me for a date. This was a man that had exercised incredible power over me and my unit for twelve weeks, and through my fear I mumbled, “Drill sergeant, no” three times before he let me go. I didn’t know at the time that about 60 percent of women who have served in the National Guard and reserves said they were sexually harassed or assaulted, but less than one-quarter reported it. Many who did complain were encouraged to drop their complaints.
http://www.indybay.org/news/2006/05/1821928.php
I think one key to FDL success is the FDL owner’s interactions with readers. FDL takes participation of readers and commenters much more seriously than any other blog I know of. Interaction not always completely pleasant for commenters since Hamsher and Smith critque as well as thank and compliment. But it makes the site much more interesting and I think it keeps people interested. I think that aspect is a real innovation in current events blogs. That along with periodic patriotic activities and freepings that hosts run. What other site periodically invites passive readers to introduce themselves and get to know the other commenters?
wesgpc (159) — I agree — Christy and Jane do a great job providing information and feedback — I’m getting an education here.
I love when Republicans campaign and talk about our uteruses. I don’t think this is going very well for them anymore. Those days could well be over…….
147, Ms. Hamsher….here’s the only thing which may fit?……
“The problem of women being shut out of opinion media, even progressive opinion media, is related to the one you describe of women not voting. Anna Greenberg has done research into this and discovered that a major reason these women don’t vote is they feel like they’re not well-informed and therefore aren’t qualified to vote. One reason they probably don’t feel well-informed is that they don’t keep up with political media as much as men,”
So, if this is it….then more women don’t blog simply because they don’t think….they’re not qualified? People won’t listen?
Is that what’s going on with lack of women doing blogs?
Ghostman
Nate # 102 — i’m guilty of having similar ideas run through my mind’s eye even though the intellectual fare that Jane & Christy cook up & dish out is a lot more nutritious than what i can find elsewhere
The intellectual insight and dialogue of FireDogLake is already intimidating to me but then when the powers of feminine wiles kick in like the hint from that Amazon ad… I’m absolutely awestruck.
But I’m just a computer geek, navy veteran from Hawaii who spends too much time as a hermit in a condo with a bird. Especially when I have dive gear and surf boards on the lanai and it’s 84 degrees outside and I’m hear commenting on the titilating advertisements on this site. It’s easy for a guy like me to be intimidated by beautiful and intelligent women who are near-always right…
Why do you think the Freepers rarely raise their heads here? Aint a one of em’ that wouldn’t shrivel under the bright glare of this site.
Dannyboy #98 — you got it!
Or as Big Oil and all the other Bigs say so well, goudge, goudge, goudge. And it ain’t just the medical segment of Big Ins.
The Nation
Publisher and Editor: Katrina vanden Heuvel
Columnists
Naomi Klein, Katha Pollitt, Patricia J. Williams
I think Garance Franke-Ruta’s requirements are a bit much. It has to be a full time staff writer in Washington DC? The goalpost is set high up enough to rule out a lot of talented, influential women in positions of power.
geez- get the hook
So how are things goin for Clusterfuck?
Oil moving up again- over $72 per barrel.
2648 troops dead in Iraq
30 year mortgage rates hit 6.73
JAR at 31%.
He’s about to turn into a pot of stewed feces.
An observer in San Diego said about Cunningham pals and bribers, Brent Wilkes and Dusty Foggo:
"These guys could care less about their country. All they cared about was their pocket book and their image, and their women and their cars."http://www.10news.com/news/9193543/detail.html
sounds like male chauvinism run rampant …
167 amen sister
Coulter and Malkin write for and are read by men.
Jane and Christy have voices that are strong but which invite other women to join in.
Most women I’ve known – of many classes, races and experience – actually have pretty solid political analyses but so many, most feel that their voices are not “authoritative” enough. Part of this is, I think, that the blog and pundit worlds value opinions based on abstract thinking more than that based on real life, felt experience. If I think of the best of Christy’s posts, for example, they include her very smart legal posts but even more so her heartfelt, lived, this-is-the-real-world posts.
Ghostman — nice try but there is no mention of “blog” there. Keep trying, I’m sure you will find the point you were talking about.
As per the discussion of women bloggers -
Did ahyone read Arianna Huffington’s latest post? I could just scream! She is at a party with Condoleezza Rice and when given the opportunity to talk to her does she ask one of the many burning questions we would all like to ask pertaining to the many important issues of foreign policy confronting America? No, she asks her who designed her dress. I like Arianna a lot but she just reaffirmed one of the most pernicious stereotypes around and many of her commenters called her on it.
rwcole 168:
“He’s about to turn into a pot of stewed feces.”
He’s been a pot of boiling poo for a while. He’s about to boil over. Imagine the stink when the crap hits the flame…
Yep = Shirley Manson of Garbage, who rocks hard.
Indeed she does. I have all the Garbage albums, a stack of singles and remixes, and a selection of live bootlegs. If I could be one rock star when I grow up, it would be the male Shirley Manson.
This is a topic that I know all too well. For more than a decade I was the managing editor of a national publication that focused on politics, and I was the only woman in a high position at the newsmagazine. For an equal number of years I fought the good fight to get more women in our D.C. bureau. Sadly, it was a losing battle and here are my thoughts on why. The men all bought into the idea of increasing the female presence in D.C. But each time we hired someone (or tried someone out as a freelancer), they held those women to standards that proved impossible to attain. If the woman was a good listener and even-handed, she was dubbed a pushover and someone likely to have trouble unraveling the “real story.” If she was as aggressive as the male staffers or maybe even more so, she was considered a “bitch” and that was judged a “major impediment” to her ability to conduct interviews, etc. So, needless to say, they just couldn’t win…and, ultimately, they didn’t. Another observation: the female reporters were usually extremely good at crafting the story (just like the gals at firedoglake). But instead of acknowledging and celebrating this trait, most of the men high up in the organization thought that the women weren’t insightful when it came to the “ideas” and “big picture” behind the story. So they judged those women to be intellectually inferior. Again and again. I finally left my “good” job. It was not because of any one man or event. I think it was an institutional problem and it holds true across the media. That’s why we should all encourage women bloggers even more than we do (and, of course, comment frequently) and even consider sstarting our own blogs.
172….well, right. But I didn’t see any mention of blogs in the article. I thought that might be the closest.
Ghostman
Good post. Politically-minded women, at least in my experiences, are hard to come by. I have only met a few, most of which were either uber-liberal or uber-conservative.
I agree though, this is a problem. Is there a women’s conference at YearlyKos? If not, there should be. Us guys will go gamble.
“He’s about to turn into a pot of stewed feces.â€
sounds like one of our commenters here tonight……
suin- you are so correct. I trust my gut (and heart) and really don’t need to read a bunch of analysis, more often than not. I will read and research when I need the information, but real life heart felt experience is the touchstone.
This is actually kind of entertaining, like a bear baiting.
177 — Ghostman, can we all agree now that nobody mentioned that there were not enough women blogging? See the previous post, it was all about the abundance of terrific women bloggers.
Valley Girl #107
Je cherche un peu de français en langue écrite. Y a-t-il un problème que vous ne me répondiez pas? Est-il possible que vous ne veuillez pas nourrir des grenouilles?
Matt O.- so am I uber-liberal? Is that a bad thing? Your friend, VG
#132: Malkin and Coulter also provide cover to the people who want to say “Here’s a woman who thinks its okay, therefore it’s *not* sexism and you’re overreacting!”
This is actually kind of entertaining, like a bear
baitingbeating.nothing against bears mind you. i’m just saying…..
182, Ms. Hamsher-right.
Bears – the number one threat to America
let’s not take this entertainment via bears too far! look where it lead Scooter …
It never once occurred to me that I wasn’t qualified or that people won’t listen. I blog because I have something to say. If 10 people read it, fine. If 10,000 people read it, that’s fine, too.
ghostman
you won’t win lick your wounds and retreat. you must not be married. marage 101
OT once again;
a new reaction to the Decider,that old uniter-not divider.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/a…..attr=World
Hugh 183, êtes-vous français?
It’s only a problem if we end up with more women like Franke-Ruta. She can’t even say if she’s observing a real trend or just a “DC thing.”
KO has a segment on now about a toilet that burns the poop just in time for this thread…
OT – speaking of the decider, i saw an ad for neil young’s new CD – the commercial ended with the announcer saying “You be the decider!”
I don’t understand how gender relates to good.
Or why more women blithering would appeal to single mothers.
Why do women need to have “female” issues to engage them Ghostman? Why can’t “their” issues be the same as mens? War (fighting or sending off a child or spouse) is a gender-equal issue. Dealing with global warming, peak oil, massive deficits, Constitutional Rights, all gender-equal issues too. I too care about abortion rights and child care costs, why are those “female” issues?
I think as a parent more often then I think as a male. It’s about progress, our future. It’s also about equality. It’s about sanity and common sense. Women should be able to hear women sharing viewpoints, whether they agree with the viewpoint or not. Plenty of white males in Congress, on tv and in print, not so many females and minorities. Why is that? They are under-represented, period.
There are certain attitudes in this country (specifically towards women and minorities) that continue to exist as a nasty underbelly in this country that no progress seems to be able to eliminate. They are far more widespread then most people will admit, and until they are eliminated, equality is a fair and urgent topic. I look forward to the days when we don’t have to discuss the gender, race, or orientation of a person to engage, but we are not even close to accomplishing that.
Can’t wait for the day this country elects a woman president, I just hope it isn’t Hillary or Condi.
Matt O. @178:
I spent half of a lunch with a woman friend last week explaining the history of our current situation in Iraq. She was completely clueless. I finished my explanation by saying something like “so you see, President Bush has managed to destablize an entire region where we get 70 percent of our petroleum.” To which she replied “Well that’s just stupid.”
No shit.
angie – i was watching that and laughing
191….I’m not trying to “win” anything. I’m just trying to understand the issues.
Maybe the lesson here is from 190…it’s simply encouraging more women to get active and participate.
Ghostman
*ooabby, and don’t you forget it!
The time of blowback is approaching …As the pendulum reaches its apogee and commences the return stroke, the ‘dead-ender’ remnant holders of such grievous patriarchal values are feeling the cool caress of the Reaper’s scythe on the wattled neck of their hoary philosophies.
Soon, there will be nowhere for them to turn for succor, but the tatty swaddling of purblind fundamentalism in all its myriad guises …Huddled in cultish diasporic knots, and suffering the ignominy that is the rightful due of all who would oppress their fellow peoples.
‘Exterminate the brutes’
#35 and #137 on infant death rates:
I think the statistic, quoted from a recent save the children report is that US has worst or next to worst rate of industrialized countries. Statistics that are harmonized to account for as many differences in definition and accounting procedures as possbile are available at following, Look for infant morality rate link:
http://www.oecd.org/document/1…..07,00.html
Main diff is that some very premature births in US Canada, Scandinavia and Finland are counted as live births, and not elsewhere. But that does not explain why US still so much higher than that subset.
US worst of all countries listed except Slovak Rep, Turkey, Mexico and Hungary (list includes all major industrialized countries). And, research has thrown doubt on hypothesis that “African genes” or “Asian genes” in US race/ethnic mix are responible, so that route is doubtful for explanation.
Here is source of recent mothers and infanct report that’s been in the news. Note that there is also a report on what happens in the first day, so follow those links for info on that.
http://www.savethechildren.org/
I’ve had a progressive/liberal video/audio/podcast blog (CanOFun) since mid-2004 but haven’t generally made it known I’m female to avoid some attitudes that are offensive. I create edited clips to represent viewpoints, and have recorded other events such as Camp Casey. I have also recorded a number of podcasts on subjects and made my first videocast the other day. Saying that female sites can also contribute to the blogosphere with other media types than writing.
198, I agree with just about everything in the first two paragraphs you wrote.
But way above, I think some folks were commenting on the lack of national female issues, and I just didn’t know what they might be. One thing for sure is affordable child care for working mothers.
Ghostman
darkblack 203, hella eloquent, dude.
Ghostman (77), rat bahstahd (198) — pick any topic and think about parity.
Let’s take the issue of childcare for example. It overwhelmingly falls to women, who overwhelmingly get sole custody during divorce. This single factor may explain the substantial difference between the number of women versus men in poverty, let alone children in poverty. How do our policies help women pay for childcare AND earn a living wage? Not to mention save anything for retirement beyond Social Security (which the Republicans would rather scrap).
I can name multiple single female heads of household, some with degrees, who can’t get ahead because of current policies and economic conditions. They can’t get a job around this area that pays more than $25K and is reasonably secure; state aid will pick up childcare (full time care runs 5K per child per year here) if the custodial parent does NOT make more than 20K. They end up stuck in this rut until they are no longer in need of childcare, but by that point the kids’ needs are greater and place bigger burdens on the household budget.
That’s just one topic, for starters. We won’t even get into the fact that landing a job for a woman of childbearing age can be challenging if small business employers fear the impact of a pregnancy on staffing and healthcare experience rates, or that women make only 75.5 cents to every dollar that men make.
VG – I loved your coming out earlier today! wonderful!
You just described it precisely – and I think that we continue to judge “smarts” on the very male model of statistics and ideas divorced of their impact on real people. (OT – that’s one reason I so value MFIs blogs – he always brings it back to how all this foreign policy hits one child or one family)
Blogging does offer a platform for our humancentric voices but we too often think we’re supposed to read the “smart guys” instead.
BTW – there will be a women’s panel at Ykos …
been pretty busy for the past few days, haven’t been around
I don’t know if anyone say this on think progress
can it get worse tehn that?
Abramoff at the White House. Incomplete Secret Service records made public today claim Jack Abramoff visited the White House only twice in the last five years.
TPM Muckraker: “[T]hese records don’t account for any of the meetings the White House has publicly confirmed: Hannukah receptions in 2001 and 2002, as well as the infamous May 9, 2001, ‘$25,000 Meeting,’ of which we have a picture. In short, the records are a joke.â€
the thirty somethings on cspan now, fyi.
op99 @ 207:
Sometimes, pictures fail me
;>)
Hugh- apologies for my bad French. I was trying to explain to Punaise why he might not have been getting many responses when he said “help me out”. And also, as a caution. I can see that my written French was terribly wrong. Ah, well. I am getting such a big kick out of discovering the Pimsleur tapes for learning French via audio. I have always felt that as a citizen of the world I ought to be able to speak at least one other language, apart from English. I got the smatterings of French pronunciation and some vocabulary at an impressionable age, and figured that it made most sense to start there. And after that! Ah, all those other great languages.
Have a look at what Dean’s been doing(from Taylor Marsh’s blog)
http://www.taylormarsh.com/arc…..hp?id=2344
Shocked the sh*t out of me
Ghost Man–
I think a critical issue for women is the place where work and homelife intersect. For married women with kids, like me, and single moms even more so, flexible workplaces that value families by giving grownups the things they need to be better parents and better employees–time off, daycare on site or daycare allowance or something to help with the huge cost and responsibility of small children, days off for ill children, etc., would all be politically significant with such voters or potential voters. Also workplace issues of equity, sexist attitudes, and harassment are important.
Ultimately, these shouldn’t be just women’s issues. Men should be standing up and demanding family-friendly policies and and expecting the workplace to be equitable and reasonable for both men and women also, but somehow neither seems to be a hot-button male issue.
I started dropping by because of the writing and because of the graphics. Irony in pictures-spoke volumes
A short on-topic koan:
I spentthe better part of today in a long faculty meeting about our nacent Dean search. My school has only had white male deans for its 100 year history. The Bosrd of trustees ultimately decides who will be the new Dean, but they also insist that they have a majority voice on the Dean search committee. So, they choose six trustees — five white men and one white female. They saw nothing wrong with this arrangement and it took the faculty to suggest there might be a little problem. As a candidate, what would this tell you about the institution’s view of women or minority candidates?
The same effect is at play in the language mediums. Those with privilege do not perceive any problem. In fact, they experience equality as discrimination. That is why Coulter et al are necessary to the rightospehere, just as Schlafly et al were necessary to defeat the ERA.
Ghostman – if you really are interested, the work of Carol Gilligen, Jill Taylor and other scholars on the subject of women’s loss of voice/silencing during adolescence is a place to start -Meeting at the Crossroards, Between Voice and Silence — two books to start with. Why not so many women bloggers starts in early childhood and really gets solidified in adolescence. Women are bodies to be seen and not heard; women are treated as bodies and are not listened to. Boy babies are given more crawl space by their mothers. Boys are given more air time in co-ed classrooms. There is a whole lot of research on this, which interestingly enough keeps getting done and buried. One thing I really hate is when women scholars and journalists identify with men and diss the ideas of other women. See that a lot in the NYTimes book review, e.g. There is so much — this is just the beginning – sexual abuse (look at the stats on who is the most frequent victim), rape, domestic violence, divorce settlements, child custody/child support.
Listen, if you really care — I’ll send you a reading list. (IAAL and also a college prof. of child and human development…I have a lot of resources on this. Just ask.
sorry about the type – it is Carol Gilligan
op99 (140) — And THEN squeeze in a couple hours of topical political reading and BLOG about it…dozing off with the laptop in bed again, finding one’s self awakened by the light-sleeping preschooler who never seems to find Dad’s side of the bed when he can’t sleep…
Heh. You go, girl, testify!
most of my life, I believe, involves “awaiting moderation.”
In all things….
This obtuseness of Ghostman is disengenuous, but I will respond by saying that if he is truly mystified a the notion of what women’s issues are, he is just in the wrong place. I’ll list a few off the top of my head: sexual harassment, rape without protection,women’s cancer without screening or access to health care, sole supporting parent without access to healthcare for kids, housing discrimination, lower pay for equal or better work, societal assumption of passivity or guilt in the face of rape, relationship abuse, harassment, personal laundry, taxi, errand, shopping and cleaning service for family valued at >300K/year, responsibility for aging parents, lack of personal financial worth in some relationships.
That’s as far as I’m going with this, and I’m increasingly feeling like I’m holding a spoon.
op99 #193
Pas français mais francophone. Malheureusement, je m’en sers très peu á présent.
former MSM journalist @ 176
Welcome to FDL! hope you like it and stick around – your experiences will be an asset to our discussions here – hope you are off doing something you enjoy these days – the ‘gotcha’ in your comment reminds me of a very old joke -
3 new souls are greeted at the Pearly Gates by St. Peter -
the first, an old man is told entry is gained by spelling a word
St. Peter: “Spell England”
Old Man” “E-N-G-L-A-N-D”
next up, a young husband
St. Peter: “Spell Africa”
Young Man: “A-F-R-I-C-A”
finally, the third, Mother Teresa
St. Peter: “Spell Czechoslovakia. . . “
I would like to add (if between these two threads no else has, and if so, sorry for being repetitious), that although she is not a blogger, Amy Goodman of Democracy Now does some amazing work on the line where politics and journalism intersect. One thing I think is enlightening is that, when she talks to someone about a little known issue, often someone from another country who is engaged in a progressive struggle of ungodly proportions, they always say with great sincerity, “Thank you so much for inviting me onto your show.” It strikes me every time I hear that how narrow our news is, even when it comes to political blogging. We tend to stick with certain topics and not go off the reservation, so to speak.
Has anyone gotten involved with MomsRising, by the way? I’ve not had time to look at it myself yet, because, well, I’m a busy mom of teenagers and a professor who is overworked. So I guess I’m exactly the sort of person who should be looking at it.
215, rudy….thank you. Let me start with a couple of those books. And….moms give more crawlspace to boys?? Hmmm, sounds like some pretty detailed analysis.
Are there some articles around on the web? I’ll take a look at the books you mention, and also I got the “Gilligan’s Island” correction….chuckle. (it’s the way I sometimes use memory, via word association, no slight intended)
Ghostman
canofun – #205
Love your site! I’ve linked to video there before. Keep up the good work.
Rayne, just to be clear, I hope you’re not lumping me in with Ghostman :) My post was attempting to say that we are not even close to parity. The more women involved (in politics, blogging, reporting, etc.) the more women will hopefully feel empowered to be involved too.
That woman has nice hair.
Ça doit être un ‘à ’. Je tape mal.
This is a very important issue that I think many progressive bloggers haven’t taken a close enough look at, perhhaps because many of the most popular are male themselves, so if one male pundit class replaces another, the effect of gender doesn’t really get reflected on let alone acted upon.
Months ago I began shifting my primary blog focus from DailyKos to firedoglake, in part because I enjoyed the feminine take on all things political (this was before Georgia10 became a front pager) and found it refreshing that gender wasn’t really an issue here. Here you were both women whose takes on issues weren’t challenged or belittled just because of the anatomical equipment you were born with.
During the infamous pie fights on Daily Kos, I wrote a lengthy diary about what women have to teach the Democratic party. I still think my main thesis is true, and my focus was not on the detail level of so-called women’s issues but on the meta level of how voters decide what issues are important to them, what politicians they trust to represent them, and who they should vote for when they enter the voting booth. I tried to make an argument of the vital importance of emotion in politics, especially if one hopes to achieve political success.
Perhaps if there are more female pundits to analyze and comment of the progressive movement we will do better. It is my experience that progressive male pundits are frequently emotional but rarely value or put effort into analyzing the role of emotion in the political process. Their reaction to Republicans who use emotion so nastily (but effectively) is to chide foolish voters for responding to these emotional appeals instead of understanding that we have just as strong emotional appeal on our side if we will just use it. Emotion is not a dirty word; sometimes women understand that a tad bit better than men do.
Had to step away to put kids in tub and bed…still making my way through this thread.
Damn, Ghostman, what’s it going to take to get through to you?
(145) NO. NO. NO. It’s not about the NUMBER of women bloggers. We outpaced you in 2004, according to the Perseus Study.
NO. It’s not about the number of women on the internet. Women outpaced men in internet usage in 2005 in the 18-49 age group (although they lag men as they get older.)
IT’S ABOUT POLITICAL BLOGGING AND THE TOP 100 MOST-READ BLOGS. And yes, it is about the style of writing; men do not generally write like women do and they tend to read their own gender, to their loss of understanding of women’s issues as well as the loss of more diverse perspective.
Want numbers? You can start with the studies at Pew Internet & American Life; you could also check the studies at USC Annenberg’s Center for the Digital Future; you could also check Ipsos Insight, Universal McCann and a host of others.
[And pundits continue to pop up like prairie dogs and wonder “Where da’ wimmen at?” Sheesh. Maybe we find better things to do with our time than beat our head against a brick wall.]
221 Quel dommage. A FDL on a un soiree de francais de temps en temps, alors restez ici, mon ami.
OT – Latest exposed “golden perch“
carp diem – seize the carp
225 rb he is without peer ;)
230 this thread = “crap diem”
been watching the Mary Cheney interview on Larry King … she’s a good lil Gooper-Girl: gotten in twice jabs about Kerry vacillating ! She still hasn’t addressed her Dad running around fundraising for the most homophobic Members of Congress.
Heh. You go, girl, testify!
*****
BULLSHIT!!!!!
As long as Arianna says that she and Condi will get together for a little “girl to girl” talk and as long as Digby and her followers refer to meritorious women as “girls”, etc. and etc., we self-respecting women will have a problem being treated as equals. Men may still have the power, the jobs, the visibility, and the paychecks… but some short-sighted females allow and enable discrimination based upon mere gender. GIRL is a diminuative. It means little, young, weak, and helpless. What woman wants to be seen as helpless??? Why give men the rope they will use to tie us down?????
I’ve been discriminated against, harrassed, abused. I was neither born nor raised a feminist… but became one.
So… cut the “girl” shit. It isn’t cute or clever.
rat bastahd (225) – my sincere apologies, I misunderstood what you meant in your first sentence in (198). I agreed with everything else you said in that comment, ditto HRC and Condi. I hate to think that they will emerge and set women back even further for another generation…
Why is Jane and Christy not listed as influential bloggers? A testimony to their contribution is the QUALITY of the comments found at this site. I visit a dozen progressive sites on a daily basis…this is the place I find the most informed discussion.
Rudy – thank you for mentioning Gilligan – I haven’t read her recent work but her early stuff has remained essential to me.
Katerina,
Although I came to FDL mostly via Eschaton, I used to spend a great deal of time at Kos. I completely agree about tone, or I would say, range. There is plenty of emotion in the male-o-spehere: anger and swagger. As I once pointed out at Kos, I experienced very little difference in tone between some of the more overtly swinging dick males there and the general republican/Bush swagger. I think I was told to STFU (with a “heh” added).
Here, the discussion includes anger, but also disappointment and beauty and hurt, and compassion, and silliness, and respect and nerdiness and (dare I say it?) love: at least for all thing just, but also for the flaws in our selves. It is the kindest self-correcting and supporting group I have yet engaged.
Maudlin, out.
I don’t know if it’s being a woman, or being a mother, or being a wife, but I think what women often do more of than men is listen to all sides. Not to decide what it is we think, or feel, but to understand. Sometimes it makes it harder for us to speak with our own true voice, and to do so without guilt. The wife and mother thing also often makes it harder to put ourselves first – and part of speaking our mind is about putting ourselves first.
The older I get, the less risk I feel in speaking my mind, and the more I relish the exhilaration in doing so.
This blog is the best, as far as I’m concerned. I love the interaction from Jane and Christy, and I think there is an abundance of energy and spirit here that is very rewarding to be a part of.
*ilson46201 @ 233– ditto. She swallowed the entire hook, line and stinker.
she said the war on terra thing jest purfekt.
immanentize 238, well said, you hit the nail on the head.
hauksdottir – So now we all know where your soft spot is. Thanks for sharing.
There’s two-plus generations of women now who don’t get put off by labels — just by the lack of access, equity, parity and opportunity. And maybe it’s the inability of some women to tolerate labels and all the other slings and arrows and sticks and stones that keeps them from political blogging.
However I do admit I’d rather avoid being labeled a Republican.
We are so fortunate to have a community at firedoglake that is mutually respectful and non-sexist. I think that as we move toward the elections and the various investigations proceed, there will be more attention to all liberal and progressive blogs as people look around for information about all the things the CM has ignored. And in all things legal, there will be more attention to emptywheel, our friends here and jeralyn, because that’s where the quality resides in evaluating these issues.
There are a number of physican blogs I’ve found, largely by men, but there are some very interesting ones about nursing which are largely by women. I’m sorry to see that, but hope it will change. I think about starting a blog all the time, but don’t know how I would narrow down what to write about among my few but deeply felt passions. I value what I have learned from the few blogs I follow regularly, but my home is here and has been since I left NYT forums and found a civilized home.
Jane and Christy are human and warm, a balanced diet of intelligent discussion, incredible education and information and hilarious sarcasm and snark packaged in great, well thought-out writing. I’m sent all over the place by important links which flesh out the story. I do see a feminine aspect to firedoglake in the frequent focus on the heartfelt and honest versus a tolerance for borderline nastiness in the comments. We have better things to do here.
blah, blah, just needed to vent
new thread – old piles
Rayne, as the recipient of your “Heh. You go, girl, testify!” I was perfectly fine with it. I accept the diminutive in the spirit of sisterhood.
op99 says: (140)
May 10th, 2006 at 5:24 pm
exactly….
Hey zen (220) — are you a fan of the Wachoski Brothers’ movie, “The Matrix”?
“Do not try and bend the spoon. That’s impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth…There is no spoon. Then you’ll see that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself.”
Thanks, op99, I figured you’d ken the intent.
I think that there is always potential for unnecessary bad feelings when there is an oppressor and an oppressed group trying to discuss oppression. There is no question that in some senses women are an economically oppressed majority in the US and many other places. Sorry right wingers, but a recent analysis of several hundred equal pay studies done over like 40 years showed that an unexplained gap in pay exists between men and women exists and that it is either not going away or going away only gradually, depending on how you do the statistics. (I linked to it here a few months ago -under a sunrays through the stormclouds pic, I think) By unexplained, I mean unexplained by gaps in career because of pregnancy and maternity leave, and such like. I also think in a few ways the US is way way retrograde compared to all sorts of countries in terms of women in politics.
So how to handle it? In the very special case of the US, I think in terms of politics and public affairs and journalism, is to disregard gender as much as possible in an attempt to make playing field equal. I don’t like to think in terms of women or men bloggers or think about gender at all. If there were a way to disguise sex of bloggers, I would do it.
Main reason is that I believe that reactionary forces in the US have used gender stereotyping as a political weapon. Notice that all the political and public affairs topics that have gradually been ghettoized by the CW pundocracy as feminized: education, medicine, public health, social services, arts, social insurance, even parts to ecomonics and finance (personal finance I think has been). Now that we have had two women Sectys of State, diplomacy will be feminized soon, I suppose. And after Katrina, I think civil and geological engineering and disaster relief will tried out for feminization, since that is not working out for the Juvenile-Boys-Party anymore. Basically everything except violence has been “feminized.” And given current extremely sexist, and sex-crazed psychic environment of large parts of US population, that means the term “feminization” means an attempt to discount and ghettoize.
And think about the signal it sends to women -if they talk about it, hey, can it be that important -it ain’t Big-Boy stuff anymore, is it?
In past I’ve read a few comments sayng success of FDL due to “woman’s touch†I cringe a little when I read that. I think what has made FDL successful is more due to the rather unique personalities of the hosts than their sex. Only other blogger I know that mingles as much with the commenters I know of is Digby, whatever that is, and I notice a very civilized discourse and loyal following there as well.
So by stupid and brainless idiotic pudocracy standards of thinking, Jefferson, Franklin, Hamilton and Madison wasted whole chunks of their careers dabbling in “feminized†fields. I wonder why Thatcher, Meier, Bhutto and other women did not “feminize” being head of state. And I think given what I think is blatant recent campaign to ghetto-ize women in US politics, and use the term “feminize†to discount many important areas of public policy and social research, that an effort should be made to encourage participation by women in political debate. So, I am suspicious of any ratio not 50-50 in this field.
Anyway, I had no idea what sex Redd-Hedd was when I first read FDL. I just thought it was a cool name.
I think there are important differences between sexes, but in US politics I think there has been a scam being played and important to understand that.
No, I saw the first one when it first came out, but I havent seen the other (s?). I have a tough time sitting through a movie sometimes, but my son wants me to see it, too.
So I wll. Sounds very zen.
btw, there is me and there is another commenter named Zen.
not the same person, but you prob know that.
Jane, it occurs to me that a lot of women are on livejournal instead of running their own blogs, yet still holding forth on political topics. The difference between LJ and the regular blogosphere is cultural and someone else can probably explain it better than I can. But it should be taken into account.
Rayne– love that movie… that scene stays with me, especially these dark days.
*ilson46201 (#14),
That is a shame and it is something that makes me kind of hot in the collar–especially when the blogosphere takes on the worst societal trends. I think FDL is pretty woman &etc friendly, but sometimes on some *liberal* blogs, women, blacks or Asians get subtly put down, pooh-poohed, patronized, and generally turned off. (I think there are a lot of cues that give away identities: names, certain concerns, writing styles etc.)
I think it is done by people who don’t realize they may be sexist or racist in doing so because of certain embedded notions about standards. Ex.: Men & Logic
It is a terrible shame. The only radio station I listen to these days is a local one run out of New Haven, I think, where the talk show hosts are all black. It was the only radio station I could listen to in the run up to the war on Iraq, because they were so skeptical of Bush, and so gosh darned realistic.And in retrospect, 100% right.And yet somehow always considered “fringe.†Arghh
Excuse the soliloquizing, I needed to get that off my chest.
tpres2000 at 19 — mwahahahahaha Support staff. Oh stop it…you’re killing me. *g* (Thank goodness for the few, the proud, the occaisional posters who give Jane and I some breathing space…and thank goodness for Pach.) Not that Jane or I would trade this in a heartbeat, mind you.
Hello, Mui, my friend!
The Wednesday Night Mugging?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12727867/from/RSS/
-GSD
Hey immanentize! That was sweet!
Mui,
It always seems you come to the party just when I’m going to sleep. Nice to cross-over witcha!
Christy, I am feeling sentimental. I like FDL with typos and all. Wouldn’t change a thing.
BTW. Omigod. Next post is screaming Podhoretz. His Damage: father/son thing perhaps, or maybe mother/ son thing.
Immanentize, I will try and X-over earlier. Too many late nights aren’t good anyway.
I’ve been privileged to interview the great Katha Pollitt more than once. Katha is the Billmon of magazine commentary. As a stylist, Ms. Pollitt could give lessons even to Billmon. She has always been a model to me for writing. Though this great writer resigned some time ago from being anything other than a columnist at the Nation, and though her talents are wasted writing a bi-weekly one page column (like Frank Rich, Pollitt’s long form criticism is truly astounding, see Cannons to the Left and Marooned on Gilligan’s Island, for example), Ms. Pollitt is one of the great ones and has a regular voice both on-line and in print. We should also be happy that Wendy Kaminer and Barbara Ehrenreich are out there and available to those of us who live in remote coastal California. Whether someone is stationed in Washington D.C. — especially if that person is a columnist — is really beside the point.
I don’t write this to make light of the dearth of female political opinion writers. You’re certainly right about that. But, rather, to give credit where credit is due and to note that you overlooked some really great writers.
Not being well-informed doesn’t stop men from voting; why should it stop women?
wesgpc (250) — but there is something different between genders in writing styles; there are algorithms that can detect one’s gender in writing style that are fairly accurate unless the writers have been coached. There’s also differences in consciousness (a topic about which I’ve read quite a bit). Normal adult women are more likely to manifest an affiliative state of consciousness more attuned to relationships and networks, while normal adult men are more likely to manifest an achievement state of consciousness, more attuned to competition and comparison against others (by more likely I mean more than 50% of the population, and the percentage at any time is fluid). [See Changes of Mind: a Holonomic Theory of Human Consciousness for a better explanation.]
In short, there really is a “woman’s touch” in the writing process. But what you experience here in FDL is not just the posts of the writers; it is the community as well, and the community also has a larger than average complement of women. Perhaps this is a factor and it’s one we’ve discussed little in this thread.
The book I linked, Changes of Mind, cracked my head wide open about the disparity between genders; we’re talking about totally different states of consciousness in which the genders live. Not all the time, and not exclusively; we are all of us able to traverse different states, but it takes a special awareness to recognize the transition and how to effect the change between them. Many of the men who comment in this thread are those who have a greater capacity to flex between states, at least it appears so to me. Are men who frequent predominately male blogs less flexible? Are women who do the same also less flexible? How do we ask an entire group of people in a different consciousness — by definition, folks with an entirely different perception of reality — to shift into our state of consciousness and our reality? That is the multi-billion dollar question.
And when answered, the question also applies to differences between cultures and economic groups and nations.
wahoofive (266) — the women most at-risk of not voting are those who have less than a college education and under $30K/year income. Given the choice between making an hour or two more wages, or voting to choose between rich white man A and rich white man B, sometimes the money is a better risk-reward.
JiO, where are you?? kick me out of here, I need to get to bed!!
“One reason they probably don’t feel well-informed is that they don’t keep up with political media as much as men, and I’d wager that one reason they don’t do that is when they turn to it they don’t see anyone who looks like they do or is talking about their concerns in a way they can relate to.”
Adults shouldn’t need this. I am a woman. I have 3 grown children. I have always voted. Why did I always vote? Politicians didn’t look like me anymore 25 years ago than they do now. Same with “concerns.” It never occured to me NOT to vote. I think further digging needs to be done. What you say may be true — BUT why do these women NOT vote because of those reasons? They need to grow up. When I was 20 years old, Roe vs Wade was passed. Because of this (and the draft for males), maybe some were more involved. If you want young women voting, it will come to pass eventually. Wait until abortion is illegal in many states.
My take on this:
Where The Wild Girls Are
Rayne #267: I got no problem with that. Could be true. But can those differences justify some topics being called “feminine”? And then subliminally sneered at? Note how medicine and public health changed from masculine to feminine as politically convenient for right wing, in far less than one lifetime.
Do you really think women (or other humans for that matter) are so stupid and simple that they only pay attention when people who like like them write something or say something? Well I don’t. People deserve to be given more credit than that. I tire of arguments from well educated, affluent women that “their” voice isn’t being heard because the punditocracy is dominated by well educated, affluent men. The reason single mom’s are aliented from the political system is the same reason the young and the poor and many others are alienated from politics: neither the candidates, the parties nor the press are focusing on what concerns them and what is important in their lives. Whether the discussion of what is important to them comes from a man or a woman is completely beside the point. I would argue that if there were more voices from people of the social and economic strata of the disaffected of all kinds then you would see a genuine surge of interest in participation. However, this would eliminate the importance of the punditocracy altogether and render moot the complaint that more women need to be a part of that failed system of opinion leadership. The real point of the blogosphere is that the participants decide whose voices will be heard instead of some corporate or other business hierarchy. I’d say women are holding their own or better on that score. Unfortunately, the net too is still an elitists playground and not nearly as democratic an environment as we hope it will become.
Yo Jane, my website links to feminist commentators including yourself. Your blogroll could use some friendly updating to give some of those women commentators – in whatever pundit medium – some water and sunlight. Granted, they are talking about glossy mags and not blogs. But isn’t blogging a major part of the future of punditry, i.e. why you work hard at this blog and I at mine?
(Oh, wait, Richard Cohen didn’t want me to say that. My bad…..)
If wespeg @ …? 204 comes back, thx for the links to the infant mortality stats. I never thought to look there 8-p
I do believe that the commercespeak arguments that create the logic upon which many public policy decision are made quote totally bogus economic arguments — there are so many externalities not calculated into cost decisions.
Among the ‘externalities’ not costed out: commute times for parents of young children, park budgets, costs of failing to provide solid maternal and family support for families of children under age 5… I could go on and on.
readerOfTeaLeaves >”…there are so many externalities not calculated into cost decisions…”
BINGO !!!
This flaw alone accounts for much of the miscommunication &/or misperception that fuels much of human failure to manifest a better world for all
“Things that aren`t accounted for in the cost equations – especially catastrophic events, the value of our survival – don`t get dealt with.” – Bill Joy
Rayne: The Journal of Computer-Mediated Communications (free and online) has beaucoup de feminist-oriented studies on gender differences in writing styles and reactions to it online. There are a lot of assertions that women get the short end of the stick in newsgroups &etc. I think we’ve all seen extreme examples of this on Usenet, which is to say I agree with you and would go even further with it. I do think some very, very important concerns tend to get pushed aside as “women’s issues.†One would be affordable daycare. Why this should be a “women’s issue†is beyond me, because raising children well is crucial to society.
I also think childcare workers should get much, much better salary and compensation even if the state has to pitch in (which CT does to a certain extent.) Had many discussions about this with my nieces’ babysitter, (who I regard as excellent.)
It’s easier to dismiss an argument as fringe if you don’t identify with the person making the argument. Does this make women more prone to buy into the “fever swamp” myth?
I made some lists a couple of months ago, to show the disparity, and was roundly criticized for not including certain women. The criticizers didn’t seem to realize that the lists were all that much more damning because those women weren’t on it.
http://makethemaccountable.com…..eMedia.htm
Carolyn Kay
MakeThemAccountable.com
wesgpc (273) — well, maybe that’s a marker in itself; “women’s issues” are those that the right will only address on par or above when the votes of women are needed. Your choice of medicine and public health is an excellent example; how would the right “buy” the votes of women who might otherwise vote in support of abortion rights except to pander? Now that they have complete control of all three houses of government, women’s gains in medical research and healthcare are now sliding on a bobsled to hell. The right will now use budget-cutting as a reason why the more recent investments in research on women’s health must be cut.
And they’ll do that until cynically they need to suck up to women for votes — I’ll be we see some reversals in early 2008.
As for the differences in consciousness: if you don’t “see” it, can’t make sense of it, why wouldn’t it be labeled as “other” (in this case, “feminine” or “women’s issues”) and then marginalized because it simply doesn’t exist to you? That’s how the schism in consciousness works — it creates a sort of blindness. Here’s a thought exercise: let’s use another state of consciousness that we may or may not experience, like a transcendent state of consciousness. To the persons who’ve been there, it’s incredibly real, but to those of us who haven’t, it’s easy to make fun of it and blow it off, label it as fruit-batty whacked out nonsense borne of drugs or brain-damage. Does that make sense?
At least we’d do that right up until we needed something from the transcendent voters if we were Republicans…
wesgpc (273) – damn, I just went and read Echidne’s Where the Wild Girls Are (see link 272 above); wow, she laid out a example of the consciousness thing in her post. I left a comment there, too, check it out if you’re still following along.
I’m a female blogger, but getting on the blogrolls of other female bloggers has been like pulling teeth. This post shows that I really need to set up a “women bloggers” section of my blogroll and put my money where my nouth is, but I don’t think we support each other as much as we might. I’ve had far better luck getting on men’s blogrolls than women’s.
Maybe – Jane -
women should write more stuff that appeal to EVERYONE. I really cringe at the lack of asian, women, or black writers and commentators in MY wheelhouse. But it isn’t because I neglect them…it is because they are writing about women’s issues and black’s issues.
I think you deserved to be on the list. I have just LOVED your work. Sometimes enjoying each morsel, slowly, in your best stuff. Sorry I never wrote in and told you before.
However, I was never prompted to write until you got off track and started blaming MEN for everything. The WHITE MEN SAVIORS club you listed is not at fault for being good journalists, or for having good/sane ideas.
When you or Arianna or some other heavyweight hitter WOMAN writes a great american piece…I just lap it up. When they start slinging around accusatory MEN insults, I just TUNE it out. You’re not talking sense at that point…just disgruntlement. Paranoia. Be the change…don’t assume a white male secrecy council is meeting somewhere. It is so easy to fall for that.
You think white men have it made? Every single evil on earth is blamed on them. From Birth. Just try being a 7yr old (white)boy at any time in the last 20 years. Every message around you is that boys suck, girlz rule, and white MALES are the cause of slavery, sexploitation, and basically – everything.
Me and everybody in my gang has never been much more than Custodial -thru- Lower Management. (I’m 40) Yes, our White Supremacist Tactics are finally bearing fruit! (rubbing hands) Soon, the Galaxy will be Mine! I opened my own Computer Repair and WebDesign shop. Hanging by a thread. If I only had some real resources, I could be suppressing all kinds of women and minorities. Well, if I work hard and save my sheckels…maybe some day I can.
If there WERE a special elevator or escalator for White Folks, can someone point it out to me?
I know there are inequities. But the inequities are everywhere. ALL white men do not get preferential treatment. My guess is the HOT chicks get preferential treatment, whether they are black or asian or white. How about the NOT SO HOT chicks? Well, not so much. But of course, that’s all WHITEY’S fault.
sorry, ladies, but i’d be happy if they fired amy sullivan. i think she’s a real dim bulb with only one “idea”: that the democrats can win by moving to the right.
one idea, and a totally discredited one at that.
Ech. I don’t even know where to start with that, shrubya. You just made my case.
For the record, I’m not only female but multi-ethnic and multi-racial. I read male bloggers, but I get really bored with reading the same things ad nauseum at their sites, and virtually nothing that acknowledges women and minorities exist.
And I’m also quite bored with white men whining that they’re blamed for everything, when they autmatically make 25+% percent more than women, when they’re overwhelming represented in government, when the media worries about them (”where are all the 18-35 year old men?? why aren’t they watching television?? what do we provide in the way of programming to win them back??”) and not women or minorities, when Congress worries about YOUR opportunities to start a new business (nevermind that women outpace men in business creation).
Yeah, cry me a river. By the way, I have an eight-year-old son, and no, he thinks he is going to be a scientist and the President of the United States, because he’s smarter than Bush and he thinks he can do a better job at solving problems. Does that sound like a victim to you? Hell no – and his mother says she’ll hock the farm if he wants to be those things.
But she needs an equal and fair chance to get that farm paid off first. Not going to happen under this kind of administration.
re: Journal of Computer-mediated communications. Some very, very good stuff there on some of the issues talked about: X-cultural divides on the net etc..(academic, though o.k., but worth it). The bibliographies are worth reading too.
http://jcmc.indiana.edu/issues.html
& Rayne, you might like Susan Herring’s work.
It’s easier to dismiss an argument as fringe if you don’t identify with the person making the argument. Michelle E: Agreed. A lot of people don’t know how to walk in others’ shoes. I think women can walk in the fever swamp– but they can also change & see the other’s position better. That sounds like male-bashing, and I don’t think all men are obtuse, but . . .in general.
mui (289) — probably, based on my weird predilection for the intersection of the technical and human…
I know there are inequities. But the inequities are everywhere. ALL white men do not get preferential treatment. My guess is the HOT chicks get preferential treatment, whether they are black or asian or white. How about the NOT SO HOT chicks? Well, not so much. But of course, that’s all WHITEY’S fault.
So how did this post work out for you? Did it drive traffic to your Internet marketing business?
While I sympathize with the various challenges facing women in media, the fact (imo of course) of the matter is that Amy Sullivan sucks. I don’t even read Drum anymore, unless someone else links to it with an especially catchy snippet. Sullivan is part of the reason for this. (Drum is the other part – lol – so it isn’t like I’ll be rushing back that after Sullivan leaves…)
Sorry folks: I’m a bit slow to post. One bit of news relating to the near black out of female voices/opinions in the media: Fenton Communications founded a website called shesource.org, which serves as a resource for finding WOMEN voices to speak for/to the media. Please check it out and suggest ALL media outlets rely on the site as a place to find FEMALE opinion makers. Thanks Jane for addressing such a necessary, potent, crucial topic… As a woman, I can say with confidence, everywhere I look it’s white men white men and more white men… SNOOZE.!!! depressing.!!!