
Richard Cohen’s Oh-Lawdy-Miss-Scarlett column excoriating the mannerless brutes of the angry left (how very original) drew down predictable ire today. As the blogs turn into the Never Back Down wing of the Democratic Party the call to regulate us into oblivion is only equaled by the one that calls for our marginalization. (This always seems to be triggered by the receipt of a few angry emails. Jesus Henry Christmas, suck it up you big babies.)
If we needed any more obvious illustration as to why this is happening, I can’t think of a better one than Chris Matthews’ conversation today with Ole 60 Grit O’Beirne about political corruption on Hardball (Crooks & Liars has the clip):
Matthews: Is it partisan?
O’Beirne: Oh, It’s totally bi-partisan.
Matthews: Every time I say on this show that it’s bi-partisan, liberal bloggers and other people say-wait-a-minute. The preponderance of evidence here and I believe it is true. Is that the Republicans have abused power more recently…
Those big choppers damn near fell out of her head at that one.
Said Digby today:
For the first time, I’m truly feeling the democratizing power of the internet (and I’m realizing why the powers that be are trying to cut off its oxygen.) The beltway courtiers are nibbling idly at their cakes, unnerved by the unruly mob of common men committing drive-by emails and digital lynch mobs and storming the stifling, airless social club that has become the nation’s punditocrisy. They don’t realize yet that this isn’t a fringe group of long haired hippies (not that there’s anything wrong with that) who are going to make the whole country hate us for our unruly ways. It ain’t 1968. There’s a lot of water under that drawbridge.
And Peter Daou:
The ‘angry‘ bloggers, the so-called Bush-haters, have played a pivotal and (dare I say) historic role during the Bush presidency. They’ve fought tooth and nail to protect the Constitution from an unprecedented power grab and they’ve stepped in and spoken the truth while so many in the media and the political establishment have abandoned any semblance of integrity and rolled over for this White House ….
Maintaining a healthy conscience, allowing ourselves to react with appropriate emotion (whether anger or frustration or relief) is an essential trait in the face of the apathy we’ve seen the past six years. With all their dripping disdain for bloggers, folks like Richard Cohen and his ilk owe the netroots a debt of gratitude for helping to preserve some shred of the America we all love — their children and grandchildren will certainly appreciate it.
Is the same kind of pressure coming from the right wing blogs? I really don’t think so, for several reasons:
1) They don’t operate in a way that encourages an independent, activist base with an agenda of its own. They repeat what they’re told. They’re part of a larger machine that echoes a top-down message; they have no independent voice.
2) They’re stagnating, we’re growing.
3) As I’ve said before, they have no accuracy or ability to do real damage, even if they could activate the numbers we do (and so far they’ve demonstrated little ability at being able to do so — it must be hard to move people to action when you never show any particular interest in hearing what they think). It’s like watching someone with their fists wrapped in huge balls of tape club the table in fury. They’re probably not going to be so very adept at Akido.
There’s no reason to cry "victory" yet, and unlike some I have serious worries about the 2006 election. But the arrows we’re launching are hitting a few targets, and that is extremely encouraging.
(David Goldstein has more on the importance of keeping the pressure on the Net Neutrality issue here.)



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Fitz for sure !
fitz!
FITZ!!!
HELL, YEAH!
Fitz?
btw, Kate also said tonight that the indictment of Karl Rove would be a huge blow to the Administration, very costly politically…
I won’t quibble with her there !
no fitz?
‘Wuxtry! Getcher Crony Beat heyah!’
;>)
testify!
I have my own set of fears about the 2006 elections, most of which revolve around the baby-eating ghouls in the GOP deciding to cancel the November polls in the name of some trumped up “national emergency”. Well, as Norske would say (maybe):
KEEP THE FAITH AND PASS THE PAPER BALLOTS!!
They are definitely hearing us. They are the dinosaurs. We are the meteor.
And I love those skyrocketing FDL stats displayed in that dKos diary.
fitzify!
To be free is to be a democrat, that is a strength and also a weakness, everybody has their own ideas and do not have to follow the lemming leader down to oblivion…taking the whole country down…
darkblack @7 – you zany fella; you’re having way too much fun.
if democrats don’t follow russ feingold by distancing themselves from bush’s foreign policy, it won’t matter who wins the elections this fall — if they cheer when bush attacks iran, our goose is cooked
what’s galling is that our retired generals are more outspoken against our foreign policy than many leading democrats are — why are the folks we elected such chickenshits?
a third party may well be our only hope — those who don’t want a third party are welcome to vote for mediocrities who are too frightened to speak out
Glad to hear someone else has reservations about the 2006 election, Jane. Mine is that the Democrats will take victory for granted. To a certain extent, I think this was the case in 2004 (it’s not the only reason we lost, by any means). The other is that the election is still six months away, and that’s an eternity in the attention span of the average American voter.
The fever swamp breeds patriots.
darkblack @ 7:19 pm (#7) – Where can I subscribe?
Chris Matthews is a cipher. His whole schtick is to be rude and challenging to both guests and audience in a seemingly unpredictable fashion, trying to upset people and arouse controversy. Gee, what will Mr. Cool Guy he say next? Quelle frisson… of disgust.
Matthews is a pure waste of the country’s time, an obnoxious clown who cares about only one thing: the greatness and far renown of his own precious hide.
Tommy Yum 16 — I like that.
Cujo359 15 — or people like Chuck Schumer will see it as a validation of do-nothing politics and set the stage for the GOP to rebound. There’s a lot of work to do (*sigh*). This is a long haul and anyone who thinks otherwise is being unrealistic.
http://tinyurl.com/a6erq
Help Impeach Today
Now… People think this is a waste of time because even the Dems said that they were not going to impeach (yeah right)…
Keep the pressure on Congress… Talking about impeachment wakes people up… They question, it’s a strong motivator to get people thinking. It also lets Congress know how intense the dissapproval is for this President… They seem to be a little slow on the uptake. So please:
1) Sign petitions if you have not done so
2) Send a letter to Congress (both Senators & House rep)
3) Send a copy to the media
4) Enlist friends and family to help, ask them to chip in time
5) Spread the link around, email it (with a request to forward) post it on a blog, or in the comments of a news story.
Help out!!!
Thanks :)
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmp…..ud_money_1
WASHINGTON – President Bush and several other Republican officials have begun shedding campaign donations from former House aide and lobbyist Neil Volz, the latest person to plead guilty in a widening lobbying scandal.
Volz, who pleaded guilty Monday to charges of conspiracy to corrupt his former boss, Rep. Bob Ney (news, bio, voting record), R-Ohio, has given $26,035 to Republican political campaigns and committees since 2002, according to the nonpartisan Center for Responsive Politics.
Whoa. Did Tweety’s Kool-Aid IV run out?
undercoverdick says:
May 9th, 2006 at 7:26 pm
Please consider this quotation:
The Internet Volunteers of America get it — when the DC Democrats wise up, they will get in front of the pissed off hordes, and lead us to victory.
Feingold has figured it out; whether he is the one to lead the Armies of Truth, Justice, and the American Way remains to be seen. But he definitely gets it.
Will the DC Dems put down their trays of cocktail weenies, and join the fight?
Nothing like a Philosophical conversation between Chris Matthews and Kate O’Beirne to stimulate the mind.
speaking of sneaky tricks; don’t you just see gas prices dropping 65 cents in Oct?
The new Times/CBS poll. How’s this for a lede paragraph:
Bush’s Public Approval at New Low Point
By ADAM NAGOURNEY and MEGAN THEE
Published: May 9, 2006
Americans have a bleaker view of the country’s direction than at any time in more than two decades, and sharp disapproval of President Bush’s handling of gasoline prices has combined with intensified unhappiness about Iraq to create a grim political environment for the White House and Congressional Republicans, according to the latest New York Times/CBS News Poll.
What’s all the fuss about vitriolic bloggers? Haven’t these people ever listened to right wing talk radio? Good god! You said it, Jane. They’re just a bunch of babies.
Never in the world could we have imagined the kind of access blogs would give us to information and to each other.
Cohen, O’Beirne and others remind me of old timers complaining about new fangled inventions. I suggest they get on board or get out of the way. This is the future.
Jane Hamsher @ 7:30 pm (#19) – That’s the long term danger, I think – they see gains in 2006 using the “do nothing” approach, and it all falls flat during the next election cycle. There’s nothing about guys like Schumer that gives me confidence that they will change their view with anything short of a humiliating defeat. If Democrats still don’t have control of either house of Congress, but do gain some seats – that’s the worst possible outcome, politically. No real power and we’re still stuck with the people who got us there.
I read Cohen’s column. He is becoming a self parody. Most protestors against the Iraq war believe that it was an unnecessary, unwise and illegal war that has killed 2500 US soldiers and between 40,000 and 100,000 Iraqi civilians, AND has damaged US national economic security for decades to come. They sincerely believe this and they have evidence and arguments. And Cohen’s entire response is to express concern over their excessive anger? Who will read this guy amymore without laughing? Or is it very dry irony?.
For the record I do not have anger toward Cohen, so he need not fear my psychic anger waves disturbing his inanity. I think he is a joke. He has nothing of substance to say, nothing to contribute to substantive debate. He recent pifflings are the pundocrat equivalent of the lawyer if you have the facts aregue the facts, if you don’t have the facts, argue the law, if you don’t have the law, pound the table. So, every week he does not pound the table, no, every week he clutches his pearls over civility and unwarrented anger.
So, we should ask him in very non-angry fashion: can father-Cohen perhaps understand why people might be angry over thousands of needless deaths, billions and billions of wasted dollars, and decades of blasted future for millions of people? Seriously, I think FDL should formally ask him if he can see no reason why people who honestly believe those things might be very angry.
Cohen is an idiot useful to his paymasters (and that is not written in anger at all). He is fat cat who wants to collect is paycheck in peace.
I have a suggestion that would make us all happy I think (including “concern pundits” lioke Cohen). Let us find a way to allow pundits like Cohen to be real fat cats. We could take a collection and see if anyone would adopt them. Maybe if we got a food fund up, Duncan Black could adopt pundits like Cohen. They would lie around on sofas and we could have Friday fat cat pundit blogging. We could vote on which human pundit and which feline pic is cutest or funniest each week.
Is Taylor Marsh part of the fever swamp? How about Harry Reid? …maybe former baseball player John Wetteland.
Tweety and Ole 60 Grit commiserated over the extent of republican corruption but he couldn’t resist the gotcha moment leading into a breaks by saying the weak repub field for next POTUS didn’t look so weak against Hillary. Without their HRC voodoo doll to cling to, I think they’d just cry.
A word about “net nuetrality”. For years I had no home phone. As I type this, I am in a Days Inn in Kuttawa KY, hauling another oversized load. I’m gone more than I’m home, so a cell phone was all I ever needed. Then I bought this laptop, you know, for internet porn and stuff. But instead, (ahem) I stumbled across the blogs–something I had never heard of before Howard Dean. To get the internet at home, I had to get a phone line. Now I pay these assholes over fifty bucks a month, just so I’ll know what’s going on. I certainly can’t learn anything from the “infotainment” shows. And now they want more money? Stifle dissent? Put opinions only in the hands of the authorized opinionholders, who don’t want to upset their corporate paymasters?
I have a little blog of my own that I started in January with about 12 posts. And it’s mostly just rants and screeds and junk so I don’t rate a chair at the adult table yet. But it is heartening to know that the blogosphere is making a difference just by the whining factor. FDL, GG, Digby are my main sources for opinion and analysis. Thanks people. Good job.
Who knew “Shock N’ Awe” would come 3 years late ?
Many House races are not competitive because of gerrymandered districts. We should’t expect a huge change. I just hope we get the majority. I don’t think we can know what will happen.
If they’re hypocrits, you must
Fitz?
The Second Greatest Generation,
The next best thing to dad.
One thread off, but here’s my take on the Miller/Cooper/Time/NBC/Mitchell filings:
Miller: 50/50 chance that Scooter gets her notebooks. I think he’s certain to get the pages with Wilson’s or Plame’s name on them.
Cooper: Scooter may get old drafts of Coop’s articles, but he won’t get anything else. Libby’s fishing, and everybody knows it.
Time: Except for old drafts (see above), Libby’s not getting anything.
NBC: Hard to tell what the judge is going to do with this. I suspect that NBC (except of Mitchell, see below) is going to win on all counts here.
Mitchell: She may not have to offer up any documents, but I can’t see how she’s going to duck testifying. That’s what you get for being coy.
Oilfieldguy 33 –
and a right fine kitten stompin’ blog it is!!!
I love what we’re doing in terms of winning the battle of “hearts and minds” and winning on the issues:
1. most Americans want out of Iraq
2. most want to protect abortion
3. most do not like seeing the Preznit shit on the Constitution.
But will it translate into votes? It doesn’t really matter since the Repubs count the votes now.
http://www.dkosopedia.com/wiki…..gularities
http://www.bradblog.com/archives/00001300.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2…..exit_polls
Perhaps a bit OT but I just retreated to the blogosphere because I had to walk away from Judy Woodruff on the Newshour so obviously trying to make the Abramoff scandal bi-partisan. Of course she had the assistance of one of her guest reporters (didn’t catch the name) who immediately went to Mollohan, without clarifying that his situation had nothing to do with Abramoff. I have given up watching virtually all television “news” shows because I start talking back to the T.V. and it annoys my husband (who agrees with my commentary but doesn’t seem to get as frustrated).
Ta, Punaise & Cujo359.
You’re here, so you’ve already subscribed.
;>)
wesgpc @ 7:39 pm (#30) – I like the way you think. Of course, that might be because I like cats more than I do stupid people. Cats have an excuse for never learning from their mistakes.
Earlier in the week, I posted a response to Dana Milbank’s “Can’t someone get Baton Rouge a life?” comment when some chat participant took him to task. I listed the stats of someone from Baton Rouge who died in Iraq. I explained that the actions of his paper have consequences, and that’s why we’re sometimes so angry when they don’t take valid criticism seriously. No response, of course, either direct or indirect from the WaPo.
They really don’t get it over there.
“There’s no reason to cry “victory” yet, and unlike some I have serious worries about the 2006 election.”
True. It’s kind of funny though that some Republican pundits say “there’s a lot of time between now and November”. For what? More Republican scandals? LOL BRING.IT.ON. ; )
spite @ #26
You’ve hit it on the head. This is exactly what’s going to happen. And we’ll hear all about same-sex marriage, too. It’ll be a 2004 deja vu. Unless… Rove gets indicted. Take him out of the GOP campaign game and we’ll have a chance. He’s evil and repulsive, but there’s a reason everyone gives him credit for getting Bush elected. I think an indictment for Rove changes the outcome of the election.
The thing about falling poll numbers now is that it’s the story all by it’s self. And it’s right up the lazy media alley. They’ll ping this thing until the bottom shows up. The rats are at the railings now. It’s a Kodack moment.
on centrist Dems, my worry is that if they have to beliefs or vision they are willing to express, I do not see how they will be able to effectively rule the house or senate if they regain power there? What the hell do they propose to do? As I have said before they have confused being careful with being nothing. Even if they win one or both houses, they will still have to oppose Bush. So why will they still not be paralyzed about what will happen in the presidential election? You don’t get something from nothing. Right now, they have nothing. Or sorry, Emanuel has said he wants to see periodic pro-active policy “things” from the Dem challengers, or else he cuts off their allowance.
Schumer and Emanuel cower in front of their opponents but swank around like school yard bullies in fron of their own troops, because they have a wad of money they can use to punish and intimidate. Do they have any idea how contemptible that kind of behavior is, how demoralizing, how empty? Can Emanuel name one policy “thing” he believes in?
True visionary leadership. FDR and Ike would have won WWII with that. Just like the fearless Truman, huh? Shades of Lincoln, TR and JFK right up front, huh?
This is the stuff Jane, keep pounding on the fraudulent M$M, the patriotic side of the blogosphere is breaking through the wall….now we must get to the other side.
Bush is a paraplegic duck NOW, but as has been described here by the FDL community so eloquently in the past, it’s the rightwing movement that must be broken.
A return of the Fairness Doctrine and assurances that our elections are on the level, and our democracy survives.
Keep up the great work, you gals are doing outstanding work and I’m only sorry that I can’t lend more support than buying a single FDL mug. Thanks.
Peace!
I am also concerned about the 2006 elections. “Reality” seems to be very different in the blogosphere and outside of it. I can’t believe the number of people, both Democrats and Republicans, who believe that the Bush admin is just business as usual and that in America, the pendulum will automatically swing in the other direction.
In fact, I’ve been so struck by the number of otherwise intelligent Republicans who have blinders on to the transgressions of this administration that I wonder if we are trying to take over the wrong party. I’m almost convinced that Progressives could re-label themselves as Republicans and 80% of the Republican party would never know the difference and vote for them.
The Chicago Sun Times explains why the msm can kiss their viewers goodbye.
Long Live the Colbert Nation!!
In the 60s some family members labeled me a “hippie” because I dressed like Cher. I didn’t mind then, and I don’t mind now being an old liberal hippie who has independent thought but believes our government should work only for the common good of all.
For sure, the liberal blogs educate. There are civics lessons, there are social studies lessons, economic lessons, and on and on . .
We are learning our lessons well. As proof, when I called Sen. Talent’s office the other day about the Enzi’s bill, the staff was so ineffective handling my counterpoints to her talking points. She finally said, “We have another 30 phone calls to take.” Not only do our government officials receive thousands of phone calls and faxes from us, but they hear well-founded arguements. Thanks for being!
Consolidated EPU’d posts (hat tip to cujo359) –
Billmon’s latest makes the point that domestic wiretapping isn’t a salient issue for the Democrats, but it’s probably not a winner for BushCo either.
http://billmon.org/archives/002433.html
The CW-O (cocktail weenie opinion) in Washington is that domestic wiretapping is a loser for the Dems, but I don’t think it is. (It’s probably not a big winner, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t useful.)
If the pitch is crafted to appeal to the NRA black helicopter fearin’ types, it can be a corrosive wedgie into the core of what’s left of Bush’s base.
Maybe use “Black Helicopters” as a lead in joke — then segue into “every call you make, every email you send, might be intercepted by Bush’s illegal NSA spying program” — something like that.
Boston Legal giving hell again as usual….
Jeesh Jane,
The Old 60 Grit pictures always give me agita. I would rather put my nuts in the microwave and hit the popcorn button than look at her pruny mug. Just another overpaid, overbitten fascista. Can you slash a big “censored” label over her face so I don’t wake up at 3:00 in a sweat with visions of Old 60 Grit doing a conga in my cranium.
What’s her book rating in at these days, by the way?
Also, grim milestone, Iraq War deaths top those of Pearl Harbor attack.
http://story.malaysiasun.com/p…..d086cfc79/
Let’s be clear about this PumpkinHead, Beirne, Tweety, The Beard are all part of The Corporate Slave State as such they are not on the side of Freedom, Justice and the blogosphere’s progressive take on ‘The American Way’. They are the enemy. Only one side will be standing when this fight is over for it is a fight for the nation’s soul. The soul and not the mind for the soul cannot live without hope and a vision of a better, brighter day to come. This vision is something the living dead of the MSM will never be able to see. They lost their capacity to see anything beyond the narrow confines of their power and greed driven lives when like Faustus they sold their souls to the Devil Corporate State.
The ‘blogosphere’ will win this battle because the ‘blogosphere’ is what Jefferson in an earlier day called ‘We the people…’.
This is our nation not PumpkinHead’s if he did not hold the multi-million dollar megaphone of the MSM in his hand would anyone listen to him.
I think not.
The man has nothing to say, never has and never will.
But the megaphone you say! He has the megaphone.
I urge you to go to this diary at dKos
and check out what’s happening right now on the blogopshere.
This is the Golden Age of the Blogosphere and what that means is everyone can raise their voice to speak out on the subject of who we are and who we ought to be.
So speak up. The time is right now.
Jon Stewart !!!
wesgpc @ 7:51 pm (#45) – A more direct problem, which I alluded to in a previous thread – if the Democrats don’t come out now saying they want hearings that may lead to censure or impeachment for Bush, are they at all likely to call for it if they win a slim majority this year? I think the (completely obvious) anser is “no”. They’ll still be afraid for the same reasons they’re afraid now.
As for Schumer’s and Emmanuel’s behavior, it reminds me of the behavior of Tom Delay – buying influence with campaign money. They may have gotten that money more legitimately than Delay did, but they’re using it the same way. That I find this an unflattering comparison should also be completely obvious.
as i’ve said elsewhere:
another thing that strikes me about cohen’s vapors over those nasty bloggers…if you ignore someone long enough, eventually the frustration at being continually ignored builds up and explodes as anger (or, 3,000 mean emails).
the msm should start listening, if not to the individual ranting, then to the phenomenon of thousands of people feeling the need to rant, and they should ask themselves, what does this mean, how are we involved in this apparent need to yell, and why?
of course, they won’t. they long for the days when journamalism was a one way street, with pundits on high gracing the unwashed masses with their pure thoughts without fear of debate.
anyway, my take on the msm’s rather late take on colbert’s take on aWol is here.
I start talking back to the T.V. and it annoys my husband (who agrees with my commentary but doesn’t seem to get as frustrated).
jhc –
Boy, do I know whereof you speak. I don’t just talk back to the teevee, I yell at the flickering lying faces on the screen. And if it’s REALLY outrageous, a slipper or two gets thrown.
Luckily, though I also have a laid-back kinda guy, Mr. K8 seems to value my fire — he seems to think that I function as HIS safety valve, vicariously. When he gets pushed over the edge, this previously quiet guy can seem awfully scary, too.
Recently we were watching nothing but a combination of Turner Classic Movies, PBS, and C-Span ! & 2 (the C-Span is mostly my doing, but he doesn’t complain about it). At any rate, all networks involving no commercials.
One day, for the hell of it, we put on a more “commercial” station. Hooowheee!!! It was like being physically assaulted, that exposure to the insanity of advertising felt like a physical blow, and we recoiled in such mutual revulsion, confirmed in our approach to teevee consumption. That’s some really toxic stuff out there on the airwaves.
TCM is just fine. All through May, every single Tuesday & Thursday night (including tonight) they’re featuring “Race in Hollywood: Images of Blacks in Film.” A very, very interesting line-up of films (some of them quite rare and difficult to get a chance to see) indeed.
Otherwise the teevee is off, and we play music. Tomorrow an order should be arriving: the new Neil Young (”Living With War”) and the new Springsteen (”We Shall Overcome: The Seeger Collection”). We’re pumped!
Channeling the anger constructively seems key to me — it keeps me motivated to remain as active and vocal as possible in the long-term herculean effort to save the country we love.
ck @ 7:52 pm (#50) – Another thing is to remind them of the things they’re afraid of. Janet Reno, the Weaver compound, the Waco thing. I’m not sure how that can be woven into the narrative, but there’s lots of fear about those things. I suppose it would go something like “What if Janet Reno could have listened into any conversation she wanted to. How would you have felt about that?” To those guys, Reno’s the bogey(wo)man, not Clinton.
Jane- I don’t often post here in the comments section, but you said something in this post that resonated with me.
Sadly, I truly believe at this point that no matter what happens between now and November 7th, the American people will believe whatever the television tells them vis-Ã -vis the results on November 8th.
Mrs. K8 @ 8:03 pm (#57) – All I can say is, thank goodness for remote controls with the “skip” and “mute” buttons. I miss most of the annoyance that way. Of course, anyone else watching at the time might not feel that way, but I don’t usually have that problem …
Cujo359 #55: I think we are more or less in agreement. I would prefer that Dems forcefully present a general vision of where they want to go, and some general policy statements that they aggressively and frequently push, and use that as a base for very forceful constructive criticisms of Bushite approach. The criticism would all fall on Bushites and the “constructive” would all refer to voting for Democrats. Then they can explain why investigations are needed (eg, where’s did billions of Iraq money go?) as necessary part of rebuilding and changing policy direction.
But just attacking GOP for the current dangerous messes and disgraces would be better than now. So we agree enough I think.
Hey! Lookie… there they are!
Kate O’Beirne’s Teeth!
waves at Kate O’Beirne’s Teeth
Ok, reading now.
Last post tonight — had to go to the airport for spousal pick-up….
I am not at all sanguine about the 2006 elections. That is why I think we need to really focus on the long term (which ought to bring us the short term as well). That is why I support Lamont in Conn. which is decidedly NOT a short term strategy for 2006.
From last thread and some comments from BarbaraB and ??? It may be true that a pardoned person is similar to a person granted immunity and that they no longer has a fifth amendment privilege. But that is where the analogy ends because a pardoned person has no obligation to testify before a grand jury. They could, in short tell the GJ to eat shit for thirty years and there could be no legal recourse. The whole of law depends on consequences for bad acts and because a pardoned person is like a new born baby in his or her legal purity, there is no legal leverage which could get them to talk. So, no prosecutor with integrity would ever subpoena a pardoned person and if there ever was such a subpoena there is no Judge around who would not quash it in a New York minute. There is simply no legal recourse after pardon. Frankly, we will see more information from memoirs than from legal proceedings post-pardon.
As for impeachment (and my opposition although I take seriously Valley Girl’s points) I believe that the Dems could make a huge gain by having a promise of no impeachment as long as everyone participated in a truth-finding process. In other words, a truth and reconciliation process. It would get to all the info. (one way or another) and would appear healing and helpful, while still holding a threat of prosecution/contempt/impeachment for those who resisted. As for Nixon, his impeachment process started long before the mid-term election in 1974 — he still had most of his second term left when things really started to heat up. By the time a Dem Congress comes in, there will be very few months to create the system necessary for investigations, let alone to investigate and then proceed with impeachment. I think a quick impeachment attempt is the only thing that could raise Bush’s slipping numbers. Again, I think very differently if there is a nuclear attack on Iran…
Sleepy sleepy good nighty night, J.H.s of the left!
Stewart just ripped Rumsfeld and his media-acolytes new ones…
sunny @ 7:51 pm (#48) – Wow, someone at a major newspaper actually gets it. Figures he’s the TV critic.
I cannot wait until YearlyKos to put faces on all the people who now follow blogs. Unless I am very mistaken we are all ages, economic groups, sexuality and races.
I am just sick to death of hearing about those angry bloggers with the not always subtle insinuation that we are young, long haired, uncouth, uneducated twits.
There may not be many seniors there, but I’ll be sure an make a point of being front and center. I know damn well they are doing it because we are demanding truth over bullshit and I for one am not going to shut up.
I went on over to see what the freepi were making of a potential Rove indictment and came across this link. It’s an entertaining read on how the wingnutosphere is seeing the case :
http://strata-sphere.com/blog/…..hives/1773
Read William Rivers Pitt’s takedown of Richard Cohen.
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/050906R.shtml
Cur him off at the knees.
cujo –
Ah, yes, the “mute” button — and captions. I’m thankful for the frequent heads-up I get from others in the “angry” left blogosphere, enabling me to tune into a news bit or interview just as it’s happening (being in a western time zone really helps in knowing what’s coming). If I know in advance I can switch briefly to get a gander, and mute voices of people like Kate O’B(-noxious), just reading in caption the drivel they spew.
But what’s a “skip” button? We don’t have one…
fwiw, I just got my Medicare card in the mail … not everybody here are spring chickens
After the 2004 election, don’t count on Democrats winning in 2006. Hiding their heads in the sand will never counter the fear and hatred that the GOP will be spreading across America.
GOP will only lose once Americans screen out corporate propaganda and feel reality slamming against their lives.
Cohen and all of the rest of them have been phoning it in for so long that they can’t tell the difference between impassioned and trenchant argument and raving.
Or else they have economic incentives to pretend they can’t.
Impeachment is a loser. The Dem’s gained seats in 1998 because of it, sympathy vote, which is why they’re “skeered” of it now. The bar is “high crimes and misdemeanors” and we don’t have that (proven). The GOP is trying to make this a “wedge issue”…Don’t give it to them.
http://www.rnc.org/News/Read.aspx?ID=6301
immanentize #63: I think a “truth” process that is convincing to most of public necessary and more important than impeachment, or criminal proceedings. But “reconciliation”? No way. It will be an affair of Democrats and any moderate Republicans interested in saving their party and willing to stand up to their own side’s goon squads (and I hope a few GOPers like that still exist). The Bushites will fight it tooth and nail, will fight filthy, will fight destrctively of everything except their own asses, right down to the last gasp.
So, I think it has to be a very adversarial process, simply because the Bushites will want it that way. They are either too crooked or too fanatical to choose otherwise.
I want to make it clear that I am being very aggresseive and very maximal in my goals. For the safety of the country, I want the whole Bushite wing of the GOP party to be utterly disgraced, utterly destroyed, utterly banished from respectable political opinion.
But, I think that has be be done in a way that a majority of the voters understand why that is the right thing to do. That has to be a matter of changed political awareness, a change of national politcal consciousness, not just of legal proceedings or political judical proceedings like impeachment.
So Dems need to have guts to forcefully make case based on strong evidence and argument that broad majority of public accepts. Needs to be done by Democratic party. That is why I think Schumer and Emanuel and DiFi and the rest so inadequate.
Come out of the White House with your hands up!
cujo@65-everybody is a critic!
Hrrrmmm.
There is simply no legal recourse after pardon.
immanentize –
Let us not forget the civil suit.
No, there may not be the criminal penalties we crave, but it’ll be good for getting lots more information. And CIVIL penalties! Joe Wilson jokes that Rove’s car will look great in Valerie’s spot in the garage.
But I don’t understand why someone who was pardoned and then subpoenaed by a grand jury wouldn’t have to testify? Aren’t there penalties of some sort for that? What about naming someone a “material witness”?
Hoping there are multiple legal beagles available to give as much input as possible on this angle…
Mrs. K8 @ 8:17 pm (#69) – You may have some variation of it. The skip button allows you to watch another channel for a set period of time, which happens to be in thirty-second increments on my TV. First hit the skip button, then tune the alternate channel, and you can watch it for some multiple of thirty seconds before being switched back to the original channel.
Really handy if you’re prone to getting distracted.
There’s another feature called “surf” on many remotes that you might want to try out, too. Think of it as a form of skip that’s under manual control.
I wrote a note to Richard Cohen, advising him (in all goodwill) to stop being so defensive and actually listen to what his readers are saying– and the email was returned. Mailbox full. :)
jumpsuit 68: Yeah, the Pitt is excellent.
My daughter just got home from her freshman year in college. We were watching the Newshour and a little of Olbermann. I asked if she and her friends ever watched these news programs, and she said, “Never. We get all our news from The Daily Show and The Colbert Report. I don’t trust those other sources.”
And the MSM wonders why it’s in a tailspin.
HookerGate baseball jerseys!!
http://www.cafepress.com/reddpepper.57224937
No impeachment in exchange for a promise to participate in some Truth and Reconciliation Commission is simply not adequate.
The law was broken.
My Constitution got mugged.
I am so not exchanging dropping the assault and battery charges in exchange for an apology.
My deal — Impeachment now, instead of the Hague in ‘09.
We’re dealing with professional, recidivist, high-criminals.
sunny @ 8:24 pm (#75) – I responded to this in a previous thread. Let’s just say I’m not big on conspiracy theories. Let’s see if I can find it … there it is:
http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..ment-96566
A couple of thoughts on Cohen, the blogosphere, peace, and freedom:
Cohen’s “poor me” schtick was weak months ago when Howell played the room. Those are the same people who don’t say a word when the White House, the senate leadership, and the entire Right-Wing Noise Machine runs around for 15 years insulting them for being liberal and telling people not to read them. Calling them traitors day after day on national media like Rush does is OK but sending them e-mails crosses the line? I’ll quote Mike McCurry: “Puh-leeze!” I’m sure that many of the e-mails were lame, but that’s life. Now he knows what people think about his column. If he doesn’t like the e-mails he can give out his home phone number, for all I care. I caught the “they” in his war comment in my first scan of the column and my head almost exploded. It was the disassociative converse of Tonto’s famous “What do you mean WE, white man?”, if you’re old enough to remember that joke.
The blogosphere has been a very important part of the nation’s growing awareness of the incompetence, cronyism, and criminality of the Bush regime, but it is important to remember that there have been important contributions made by some old media sources too. Dana Priest, for one, as well as the folks who exposed Abramoff and the long-suffering writers from The Nation , The New Yorker, and others. The audience participation in the blogosphere is a blast, though, and FDL is definitely one of the only sites where the authors read and respond, which is a real tribute to Jane, Christy, and the rest of the gang. It is very cool of you.
I participate in the blogosphere, and also in other anti-war and social activism and I would love to see more mutual support and respect. I sometimes get a sense that the blogosphere has very little interest in supporting the “sandals on the ground” anti-war movement, which is a shame. As I have said many times, when we achieve world peace, there will be plenty of credit to go around.
I went to the Kavanaugh hearing today and it was much less interesting/exciting than I had hoped. I’ll try and do a diary about it on kos tomorrow but I’ll give you a tidbit. Somehow, Mr. Kavanaugh worked with Gonzalez and elsewhere in the White House for the last few years, but didn’t know anything about the Bybee memos, torture and rendition policy, NSA wiretapping, Guantanamo, the Pickering or Bybee nominations, or anything else at all controversial. I call this the “Golden Child” theory. They had this absolutely brilliant young legal mind that they were grooming for the fastest possible track to Supreme Court Eternal Salvation, but it was important not to poison his mind with any of the dirty details of the unconstitutional criminal enterprise that was going on right in the same room. To solve this problem, the Golden Child was fitted with earplugs and locked in the closet during large portions of each day so that he could honestly say “No, Sen. Leahy, I never saw any of those memos.” when it came time for his first Senate Confirmation Hearing. (Some families buy their sons an escort, some get a car, some real nice white boys get a lifetime appointment, this is just plain how it goes.)
Oh, and Senator Specter made sure that we were all aware that this brilliant young fellow actually went to law school, graduated, clerked for judges, and worked at a law firm. Senators Hatch and Sessions repeated all of this information in case we weren’t listening. It was very special.
Schumer stepped up big time. I know that he can be a centrist whiner, but he worked that hearing hard today and he deserves a little credit.
The saddest moment of the hearing came up during a discussion of the Bybee/Gonzalez/Abu Graib torture fiasco, when Kavanaugh said that he thought the episode “damaged the presidency, and the president.” I stayed in my seat and kept my mouth shut. It damaged the soul of our country, you little prick, and was a crime against humanity. Acquiescence is participation, case closed.
peace,
jim
cujo –
Thanks! Will have to explore the gigundo “universal” remote we sometimes use; there are all sorts of doohickeys on it which seem mysterious to me.
Once upon a time I had a cable remote that let me program *several* stations to switch between. It was great for me at the time, which was when I was doing p.r. for a national cultural non-profit which had a relatively high profile in the area, and would often be featured in the local news. Just programmed in the local news stations, and skipped around as rapidly as I pleased looking for the segments I knew had been planned for inclusion in the broadcasts.
That was back in the Northeast, and I haven’t seen a feature like that on a remote since — just one which lets you alternate between *two* channels. The technology’s not difficult, wonder why nobody ’round our way seems to offer the option.
Davis X. Machina 83 –
The deal is — Resign, and skate. Either that, or face Impeachment AND the Hague.
jhc #39: I caught a bit of that broadcast, and had a similar reaction. They admitted that there was “no evidence” any Democrats were involved in the Abramoff scandal, but said (eagerly and repeatedly) “that could change” at any time.
No, it can’t. It’s of a piece with calling this a “lobbying scandal.” Duke Cunningham is a lobbying/bribery scandal. MZM is the same.
Abramoff wasn’t a lobbyist, he was a Republican political machine architect, who used a lobbying business as a means of laundering money to his advantage and ripping off anyone he could. Can anyone cite an instance where Abramoff did successful lobbying to benefit a client that didn’t at the same time do more to further a Republican cause or benefit a GOP operative?
That’s why there won’t ever be any Democrats involved in the Abramoff scandal. No matter how hard some reporters wish for it.
I’m beginning to think that we are in the midst of a reality TV show called “Regime.” During the show, the Prosecutor Team throws scandal after scandal at Bu$h, his pet thugs and MSM reporters and we get to see who will be left standing. And it’s -of course- broadcast on FAUX. Pass the popcorn.
Redshift @ 8:39 pm (#89) – Saw that, too. I was wondering why the moderator (Judy Woodruff) didn’t ask – “Oh, which Democrats are on the spot?” when the WaPo reporter said that. For that matter, she didn’t ask him to list the six Republicans he figured could be in trouble.
There’s no curiosity in the news business anymore. If that had been Entertainment Tonight, do you think they wouldn’t have asked that kind of question?
What’s her book rating in at these days, by the way?
Kate’s book is currently coming in at #2,802 in Amazon’s sales rankings.
Jane (your last paragraph), T Rex #9 and Cujo #15 re 2006 elections
It seems to me that it would be difficult to interfere with the elections per se, considering that they are administered by the states, mostly according to state law. They’d have a better opportunity contesting various close elections for Congressional and Senatorial seats, especially if a small handful of seats in close races could swing the Congress houses either way. Perhaps a replay of the 2000 presidential BS only for Congressional seats. Where things could get really interesting is if the Goopers are deprived of majorities in both houses, investigations lead to impeachment, and Bush-Cheney refuse to fly off into the sunset with tail between legs like Nixon did. At that point Cheney and Rummy may begin to regret they pissed off so many generals.
They probably think us bloggers are all teenage boys or something. From now on when I email these slugs, I’m going to let them know my age and sex and let them know I’m not.
Relax folks, we’re in good hands. Giltin’ Joe is cleaning up DC, one scandal at a time:
Meanwhile, Sen. Lieberman’s joining the calls for an investigation into the HUD Secretary.
(via TPM)
undercoverdick(#14):
those who don’t want a third party are welcome to vote for RUSS FEINGOLD or WESLEY CLARK or AL GORE or whatever democrat who’s ready to drive a stake through the hearts of the perpetrators of this SNAFU mess that’s been created over the past 6 years. a third party would wreck any chance of a change in the situation as it is now and would get us NOTHING. we do not have the luxury of waiting for another 2 years, much less 6. Get Real.
You realy couldn’t make this stuff up.
“GOP House Speaker taps Cheney, Goss for Congressional Distinguished Service Awards
On Wednesday afternoon in the U.S. Capitol, Distinguished Service Awards will be bestowed upon Vice President Dick Cheney and former CIA Director Porter Goss, two former House members selected by House Speaker J. Dennis Hastert (R-IL), RAW STORY has found.
“The Congressional Distinguished Service Award was established to honor former Members of the House who have performed their duties on behalf of their constituents and the American people with such extraordinary distinction and selfless dedication as to merit special recognition,” reads an invitation to the ceremony obtained by RAW STORY.”……………
http://tinyurl.com/qxsw4
itwasntme @ 8:46 pm (#94) – To tell you the truth, I don’t think there are many regulars here who are under 30.
Think about it this way. What would you rather have?
1) impeachments and convictions that half the country thinks were politically motivated and US soon goes back to same near 50-50 split between parties, with GOP still heavily influence by rightwing crackpots, and a cliff hanger election every 2 years to see if next pupptet/nucase gets elected.
2) thorough-going exposure of information that educates public regarding true nature of Bushites, and vast majority of public repuditing Bush/Cheney/RumDum thought. Country goes to 55% Dem, 45% moderate GOP. And any one contaminated with any Bushite embrace, such as McCain, or Allen or Frist, any of those people, will be electorally dead?
I would prefer 2). And I think if 2) happens, then enough information will be public for many saluatory and instrutctive prosecutions.
But 2) requires that Democrats wage public opinion war. Dean?
Whoops.
Aheh.
Forgot to switch back to my real name.
jinny @ 8:50 pm (#97) – I think I’m gonna barf.
show of hands? over/under 40?:
“over”
I hate this kind of Cohen article. The more so because I bought Vanity Fair to do a little study, and tried to read Wolff’s article on Scotty and ended up almost sticking my fingers down my throat
Cohen is completely deluded if he can’t admit most people—probably about 70% of the country in the know–think Colbert delivered the ultimate snark. And that in itself is funny. Cohen is basically standing on his WaPo pulpit and preaching to a pathetic 30% and trying to use his pulpit to win back some. He says he is not a bully, but he is. He’s accusing progressives of being this hateful mob. That is just plain unfair name calling that a bully would use. Especially since he’s standing on his WaPo platform. If Cohen was being honest, he might try in a sympathetic way to understand why everyone thinks Colbert is the bomb . Cohen shouldn’t compare ratings to American Idol. It’s good of him to warn Hilary though.
BTW How stupid must Tweety be not realize all this time that he’s not a centrist, but a partisan right-wing canary?
itwasntme @ 94
Molest my firm young nubile body, I’m a blogger.
{chortle}
I haven’t read all the comments, having been out on a delicious date. :)
Anyway, nobody on this earth nails it like you Jane, in this case in the very first two sentences of this post.
The two-parties political establishment is so numbingly corrupt and broken, has yielded NO effective opposition to the most brazen and bizarre usurpating junta ever seen. What has happened to the notion of the people as ultimate sovereign – the very basis of our nation? Answer, it’s been calculatedly, relentlessly attacked and systematically dismantled, in the purposeful degrading of our political institutions and discourse.
But Newton’s inescapable laws have given rise to what we have here and all over the blogosphere. People power starting to seriously kick the ass of these totally rotted institutions of which the GW Bushes and Richard Cohens are emblematic.
That said, I don’t have much hope for the 06 elections either. The old game is fucking dead and over and a sham. I do feel hope at something new being created by the energy of all of us in the blogosphere, not just here but all over the world.
Greetings, greetings. My own curiosity is whether what is known today as the
“lefty blogs” will change over time into…more of some sort of mainstream blog. The reason I wonder is because, perhaps over 5-10 years of time, more and more folks participate in blogs, and with increased numbers comes more and more opinion from more moderate thinkers. I don’t know…have no idea on this, but I just wonder what the picture will look like over 10 or so years.
Eventually, I DO think what is referred to as the MSM will take some big hits. More and more people will learn of their bias, and drop out of their ratings structure.
Ghostman
punaise @ 8:55 pm (#102) over
Watch Colbert tonight for a giggle– Frank Rich is purty good with da MAN!
To tell you the truth, I don’t think there are many regulars here who are under 30.
Some night, we should have an “Out Yourself” thread where we all tell our first name, age, location, and orientation. I would just be interested to know how we break down as a demographic.
I’m over 40, but dang it, still mad that the grownup just won’t LISTEN! And I am misunderstood. After my midlife crisis, it will get better and I will become wise.
We had the results from our blogads survey they other day. Most of the respondents were between 40-60, which from the life experience expressed by most of the commenters is what I would have guessed.
Immanentize, I miss you *sniff*!
Immanentize, I miss you *sniff*!
Ghostman @ 8:58 pm (#106) – I think there will be an inevitable change to some sort of mediochre, but popular, form of blog that many folks will gravitate to because it’s flashy or entertaining. That’s pretty much how TV and print news have gone.
The difference may be that on the Internet, where the price of starting a blog is very small, there may always be room for more intelligent voices. I hope so, anyway.
I sometimes get a sense that the blogosphere has very little interest in supporting the “sandals on the ground†anti-war movement, which is a shame. As I have said many times, when we achieve world peace, there will be plenty of credit to go around.
Jim –
I know what you mean in terms of the “big blogs” for the most part. However, there may be more connections at the local level than seem apparent to those who only read national-level stuff.
Here in AZ there are fruitful connections between on-the-ground activists and the net. Local bloggers tend to be activist, too. We see a lot of connection in our local PDA and DFA chapters, in immigration issues, in local chapter of the ACLU work, and especially in the election-integrity effort here in Maricopa County and elsewhere in AZ.
Today I was happy to hear a local election-integrity activist group advertising on our local AAR affiliate, giving their web information, and pulling the “old tech” of radio into the full loop.
Maybe things are different where you are, but here in Phoenix it’s looking good. People are energized and excited in building up the base and reforming the state party (and there are some decent connections between the PDA/DFA types and the “traditional” party folk, too — progressives successfully convinced the state party bigwigs to vote in Dean as chair). Not that we haven’t a long way yet to go in AZ, but at least the seeds are getting sown for good growth and there are at least brief flashes of synergy.
punaise @ 8:55 pm (#102) over
—–
I just watched part of Colbert. Who is Frank Rich?
Sharkbabe @105
All true political shifts of wind in US politics were ushered in by a third party that threatened the two-party system and which forced one or both of the parties to co-opt its platform in order to remain competitive. Occasionally the third party, usually labeled Progressive, won elections and stayed in power for some time. This was particularly true in mid-America in the ’30s and ’40s at the local and state levels.
Progressive parties threaten more than just the two-party system. They threaten the established order. Someone today, perhaps here, quoted Joe Kennedy as saying, “I’d rather give (that rat bastard) FDR half my money than give the communists all of it.”
Thesaurus rex, Not a chance will I for one out myself. This may be a community, but it’s open to the WWW. Some of those WWWers out there may not be so sympathetic. I call it grannie wisdom.
114, Cujo359 “flashy and entertaining”….aha. I hadn’t thought of that. Hmmmm….I’m not, at the moment, coming up with any reason why your projection is NOT correct. You’re probably right on the mark. (sadly so)
Ghostman
jinny says:
May 9th, 2006 at 8:50 pm
i can’t believe it……..throwing up in my throat, a lot.
Well, okay, fine.
I’m David, I’m turning 38 in two weeks, I’m in Athens, Georgia, and I’m a cute single gay man.
So there. Take that as you will, Internet Baddies!
wesgpc (#46):
“can Emmanuel name one policy thing he believes in?” Supporting Israel. His country, right or wrong. Chances are, Schumer, ditto. Anyway, that’s my hunch. (probably get me called an anti-semite but i’ll risk it).
man oh man, I am still looking for the site with those full color voter demographic maps. The one group that stands out as being way more for Bushites than anybody else is
–college educated
–white
–men
–age 30-sumpin to 49.
What the $%#@@! happened to those people. My own people! I am… ashamed. I am stranger in my own demographic land. Anyone know of the site I’m talking about? I have been looking.
PS: thanks for link to that Greenwald column of a few days ago, Ms. Jane H. I agree with Glenn Greenwalds drift -there are many who truly believe the reactionary myths. It is not all a veneer over personal greed and selfishness. Might be some rationalization and self-justification, but I think we are all prone to that, and make a mistake if attribute that aspect of human nature principally to those we disagree with. But I think the ideological fantasies are easily punctured with facts and sound reasoning and arguments and basic info. So getting those across better than accusations of hypocrasy.
Of course, I am talking about voters here. The big shot ringleaders are another matter.
#109 and #110 – I think that that you’re both correct and that it also applies to DailyKos and some of the other progressive blogs that we all
seem to visit. The MSM have cultivated the belief that we’re all angry
lefty college kids and they’re wrong, as usual.
fahrender –
I absolutely agree with you @ 96.
The answer is to take back the party from the DLC types. Once upon a time there was no DLC, either!
PDA and DFA are the tools we can use readily for reform from within, for applying organized grassroots pressure, and especially for getting progressive candidates on the ballot. These groups have chapters in every state now. Their meetings are always energizing, because they look for EVERYONE’S input and active contribution.
In Tucson, local chapters of PDA/DFA? (can’t remember, if it was both orgs or just one) recruited and ran progressives for City Council — these candidates won, and have changed (for the better) the whole tenor/agenda of the council.
jinny 97: Actually, having CheneyGoss get medals will be an occasion for most pundits to talk about how they don’t deserve it. It keeps their (mis)deeds in the news yet another day. It’s a dumb move by the Repubs.
State funerals, on the other hand, force everyone to be polite for a day or two, but not awards. This will be like the “medals of freedom” Bush handed out to Tenet — another reminder of how Bush screwed up the intelligence services. Can they really be this dumb/desperate? Rove must be worried about Fitz. This sounds like a Hastert silliness.
Cozumel #74: The bar is “high crimes and misdemeanors†and we don’t have that (proven).
“Proven” is what happens in the trial, not the impeachment. “High crimes and misdemeanors” is fundamentally politically defined, it does not (and is not intended to) refer to crimes in the same sense that you might be arrested for if you were a civilian (though it doesn’t hurt if you have evidence of those, too.)
The GOP is trying to make this a “wedge issueâ€â€¦Don’t give it to them.
Actually, they’re trying to use it to fire up their base, it seems to me, not to divide the opposition, which is what a wedge issue does (they’re only putting it in fundraising letters, not in their public “message”).
I’m on the fence about whether impeachment works for us or against us electorally, but — they’re going to do this regardless of whether any prominent Democrat ever mentions it. They’re already doing it, whether we “give it to them” or not. Their campaigns have no relationship to the truth, so the thing to be weighed is whether it will benefit us, not whether they’ll try to use it.
The Dems gained seats after the impeachment because Clinton was popular and effective, and the “charges” were so incredibly farfetched. That doesn’t by any measure mean that considering very serious charges against a deeply unpopular president would have the same effect. I’m not saying we know for sure it wouldn’t but the two situations aren’t remotely similar enough to have any certainty that the same thing would happen.
MarcLord, As a thought exercise, but maybe not in reality—It may be good to entertain the notion of third party. Like I don’t see Nader joining forces with the Dems. But other parties in countries like Germany formed coaltions, at least one infamous one. But the Social Dems and Communists might have won I remember reading if they’d got their act together pre-hitler.
punaise –
(for “show of hands”)
OVER.
well, okay right back at you, TRex– love you lots. Love the name David as well.
TRex 109 “…we all tell our first name, age, location, and orientation…”
Lauren, over, NY, facing north.
over
mui #118 – And there’s that thing that creeps all over the web every night and collects everyone’s names, numbers, etc then they’re in virtual google forever.
there’re mucho positives for the web scene, but negatives too. I’ve learned a lot here & at other sites (dKos, myDD, HuffPo & fav sadlyno). Froomkin prob’ly served to give me links to these pages.
But I feel a bit whip-sawed trying to keep up! Every refresh, a new topic appears, umpteen comments follow, then *blang* it’s on to the next, where folks’re just waiting to count coup ‘cos they were 1st to post “fitz”. Forgive noob me for thinking that this sort of auto-cheerleading on the latest web-rumor is lame junk-think.
The Second Greatest Generation
Brokaw, Russert, Mathews,
Channeling Dad
At a News Show Near You
I note with approval commmenter who said Schumer did good work against the current judical nominee wingnut of the day. I think many of the corporate Dems would be fine, if they were part of Dems in majority with a counterbalancing grass roots base. I think problem is that they are organization-persons, aparatchiks, and functionaries. Not much good at leading group from underdog position (or undercat as opposed to top-cat position for cat fanciers). Organization persons with no organization can be real hapless, even when they go through convincing motions of being tough (with the underlings on their own side). So I do not vilify them totally as politicians when I blast centrist Dems, just the harm they do when they attempt to lead in situations where they are not good matches for job that needs to be done.
I happen to be a 6′7″ nordic god. However I am traveling in extended cognito as a 5′6″ 185 pound 46yo truck driver. I’m also a master of disguises, obviously. Just one of my many talents–if I have any flaws whatsoever it would have to be my modesty. As far as my name goes, it’s on my blog, right in the header, but my handle is where i’ve spent my life. Tells you more than my name, right? I had an O’Rielly moment there for a second. Please forgive me.
Thesaurus, cool idea. Somebody else start. Myself, I’m eleven years old and I think I like girls. :)
Btw while me and date were talking she just took out her foot and put it against the dashboard while discussing her self-given pedicure and nail job. I admired it all (quite nice foot) and caressed the foot as much as politely felt right. Q: was this her asking to be devoured? Was this foot a hand/body stand in? Anyway, kicking myself for not oralizing the shit out of that situation.
mayan # 90,
I’m with you – this crew is publicly stepping on it at least once a week now – and we haven’t even started Fitzmas proper ! then there’s Abramoff and MZM/Hookergate- although I haven’t graphed it, DOJ is on track to indict Delay & Ney around early July, Safavian in court on the 29th of this month. Unfortunately there is still the tragedy in Iraq and God knows what Mother Nature has in store for this hurrican season
when rwcole first started talking about the significance of polling I dismissed much of it -but here we are at 31% with no upward trends and a voting public with across the board anxiety about the economy (and thanks rw, I am now a SurveyUSA junkie!)
As to Diebold – there are so many more of us aware and watching this time – they’re pretty much going to have to commit the same old crimes in the same old places and I just don’t see folks laying down for it this time – further, if your votes stay home (and they will), and election eve polling shows 70-30 against, you can’t pull a 51-49 win out your ass and expect to get away with it
Oh and one more thing, am starting to see the rumblings of what looks like an awareness of Corp. Media bias and complicity within the general populace – of course if the polling dips in to the 20’s we wont have to worry too much longer about that
Good grief. An outing thread? Mass exposure at fdl! Over and out.
scarecrow – #128 -Oh, I think its a total bad joke and I don’t know who
dreams these things up. Cheney. for instance, aren’t his favorability ratings at 17% or something like. These are the dreams of a stupid
little kid.
Impeachment or reconciliation?
I don’t think those questions need to be dealt with at this stage. While I personally believe that this Resident, his Vice and their minions have committed multiple high crimes and misdemeanors, I also think that Democrats should not be crying “Impeachment!” but should rather commit themselves to fair and open investigation of the actions of the Administration. Then they can truthfully say, “No one can predict where these investigations might lead.”
Why we haven’t heard from Fitz lately
Fitz has been busy bringing down gangs in Chicago.
Sharkbabe 138, that was an invitation you could drive a truck through, honeybunch.
Actually I am an incarnation of an ancient Finnish deity whose function is to wander through the arctic spruce forests acting cranky, in a state of slight but noticeable disorientation. Be afraid, be very afraid…. If you see my while milking, it will go sour. ha ha ha.
#134
Are in Lost Wages?
122, fahrender…..you know, I think you’ve mentioned something which just now seems to be starting to gradually heat up. It’s the whole “is our policy towards Israel in America’s best interest” thing. And I think it’s an issue which could really flare up sometime.
I was stunned, awhile back, when Prof. Dershowitz (the guy from Yale) posted a criticism of an article questioning this issue…and he got hammered by otherwise liberal folks on this. Just hammered. It was over on Huffington Post.
It could potentially be twice as emotional as the immigration stuff. But it’s just on a low simmer these days. Time will tell what happens.
Ghostman
Suzanne, 51, Boulder Creek, CA (Santa Cruz area)
the gal on “Fresh Air”, Teri Gross, was interviewing the reporter from the Boston Globe Michael Savage (?) who wrote about the number of times Peabrain has written special exceptions to laws that Congress has passed (750 or so). Something like more than double of any previous president. “Fresh Air” is worth a listen. It was a very good interview.
sharkbabe
yer killin me
I think we would all frolick and play for a long while if we ever met!!! Oh, and we certainly would guffaw, too.
Glitch.
Over, and I can make myself look real conservative when I put on a suit.
Over
and my family teases me about my resemblance to Kathy Harris – minus the nictating membrane
and btw T-Rex, very cute indeed, caught ya over at your place today
Uh huh, Sharkbabe. That was research on her part. If the vibes were there and you backed off, she might have been disappointed, but oh well. That’s what second dates are for.. Progression 1st, 2nd and 3rd base. Here in CT and in the Northeast in general, people are generally pretty catholic, heterosexual and gay included.
The wurlitzer is already in full-blown demonize the Democrats mode, of course they have absolutely nothing to point to in the way of accomplishments under their fearless misleader, so it’s right back to smear and destroy.
Ghostman, Dershowitz is Harvard not Yale just fyi.
fahrender #96 – YES YES YES YES YES! Well said.
I’m seven. That’s about 49 in dog years. I live in the state of Washington. I’m not sure what you mean by “orientation”, but the cat seems to like me, and I don’t look too bad when the kid remembers to brush my fur. That doesn’t happen too often. He’s in the car right now, I think I’ll play a joke on him.
close tag at 43
close tag at 143, I mean!
Gnite Johnboy
fahrender –
Teri Gross is a great interviewer. I listened to her for MANY years, from before her program was nationally syndicated. She’s really almost a workaholic — always reads the books her guests have published, does lots and lots of research.
And she’s a neat person. I met her at a party back in the very early nineties. She looked nothing like how I envisioned her (ain’t that almost always the way?) — haven’t seen pics of her lately, but then she had remarkably short hair, kinda sorta butch-looking, or at least not at all plugged into the whole “this is what women are supposed to look like THIS season” in regards to makeup or hair or clothes.
Very easy person to be around, very funny, and of course outrageously smart.
The best thing about her program is that she’s an interviewer who LISTENS to her guests and takes the discussion in surprising ways, depending on what happens. Thinks on her feet, let’s the guest shine, draws out remarkable things that even the guests later said they were surprised they revealed.
I’m over 40 by a considerable amount, albeit a tad younger than *ilson, female, Florida, and I used to be a practicing heterosexual but these days I’m a consultant.
156, jay….ooops. I somehow thought he was a Yale prof. Oh well. Harvard then.
Ghostman
My orienation is typically southward at work, and westward while working at home. At night in bed, east-west, head to west, sleeping on back with arms and legs flung around somewhat. Breakfast is typically eastward, since I like to eat facing the morning light. Orientations are dicated by the feng-shui principles of my office assignment, convenience, inertia, too lazy to re-arrange things, etc.
It seems to me we should be careful about all the impeachment talk. Most of us remember how it disrupted the country the last time and I think it will turn off alot of people.
I also think rather then say we are going to call for investigations we should be saying we are going to immediately restart oversight, something the country hasn’t had for five years. It means the same thing but sounds a hell of alot better. We want to win, not just make a point.
O.K. Outing. Single: I run and duck for cover when anyone looks like they want to put a wedding band on my hand. Age: You can make a guess based on the info above. Background: mixed background/ethnicity and proud of it. Don’t want to make any commitments. State: Lamont country, but not the same county, etc.
This is beginning to sound like the General’s Hannidates.
Angie @ 151 -
you said it! I like the idea of a giant mosh wherein I could stage dive – and not come up for a very long time
Oilfieldguy @ 9:40 pm (#161) – Gnite Oilfieldguyboy. Drive defensively.
Thanks for the link to William Rivers Pitt’s response to Cohen, Orangejumpsuit (#69). That was very powerful and really captured my sentiments! If you haven’t read it, check it out. I’d repost the link, but I don’t really know how.
wesgpc @ 9:45 pm (#165) – To me, feng-shui is Chinese for “it doesn’t look as bad over there”.
My first name is Jon, as is easily guessed, and I’m a professor in a women’s college in Japan (a dirty rotten job. . .). I’m thirty years old, unless there happens to be a mirror in the room, in which case I’m sixty-five — but a well-preserved sixty-five, in spite of the gift of a “Silver Card” from the City Office that makes me eligible for home helper care. I tend to habituate this site at hours only the expats and insomniacs do, so that I am often EPU’d.
Usually, I decide that whatever I had to say wasn’t all that important, anyway.
For those of you undergoing mid-life crisis, I will tell you that I began graduate school at the age of forty-two and was forty-nine when I finished my dissertation, so I am a firm believer in continuing education.
Unfortunately, now I seem to be going through some other crisis, to date unnamed, but which manifests itelf in a firm denial of the fact that I am no longer middle-aged.
Come alive, you’re in the Cialis generation.
How many will get that reference?
Cujo359 #171: I don’t understand that at all, but somehow the gestalt indicates I probably agree.
wesgpc(#99):
i agree 100%. that’s definitely the way to go. it will hurt the bastards much worse and give them no “martyrs”.
Oilfieldguy –
Good night, sleep well. I think it’s great that someone on the road constantly like you can partake of this community, enjoy the camaraderie, and also give us the benefit of your own participation/insights. None of that could have happened before this here internets-thingy came on the scene.
[It truly is a wonderful thing what can be done with this technology, and we have to somehow figure out how to protect it from the fascist vultures who would love nothing better than to defang it and nip its possibilites sooner rather than later.]
wesgpc @ 9:45 pm (#172) – Just seems to me like feng shui is the way people unconsciously process their esthetic and instinctive feelings. I should probably point out that I’m not a feng shui disciple.
mui (#103) tweety isn’t a canary. he’s a weasel!
To me a feng-shui consultant is what someone’s Asian mother hires when one of the family members is ready to get a divorce.
Night Maryellen.
No way fahrender. I thought a weasel was supposed to be smart like a fox. Canaries just sing. And you dangle your fingers in the cage and say “here, birdie, birdie.â€
Latest stats show something like 73% of US adults are now ‘online.’ That number includes people using the Net for commerce, Bible study groups, kids soccer team schedules, dental appts… so the same people who use the Net for organizing their Bible study groups, also use it (increasingly) to post comments.
Anyone who tries to relegislate the Net, thereby messing up WWII vets sending their dirty jokes to the grandkids by email, is too stupid to eat soup. Blogs are mainstream. Once an activity becomes part of daily life for millions and millions of Americans, then any dumbass who tries to mess with it reveals the degree of their cluelessness about what’s REALLY going on in people’s lives.
As for the MSM implications… online technology is simply different from tv/radio. It is inherently more “about” interacting, ‘about’ collaborating, ‘about’ sharing ideas — hell, it was DESIGNED for that stuff.
Personally, I think the online NYT is doing some good things — their Flash files are superb.
Here’s what **should** be scaring the shit out of Cohen and his buddies: on HuffPost, a Flash show created by a US Vet with a lot to say: http://bushwhacked.cf.huffingtonpost.com/
He’s a more visual communicator than Witt’s article at Truthout, but these are informed and trenchent. On the Colbert Scale (1 = BushLies, 10 = ColbertLevelHonesty), I’d give each a 10.
mui @ 9:56 pm (#177) – Makes sense, although I’d think that if one believes in that sort of thing, it would be too late to realign the yin and yang (or whatever the forces are called) by then. That’s often when people start fixing things, of course.
As recently as a year ago, I thought that the right had a nearly insurmountable advantage in their network of billion-dollar thinktanks. I knew that the Internet *could* provide the necessary countervailing force if …, but I did not appreciate that the “if” had already happened. Great work, everybody!
Hillary’s saying nice things about the Chimp. I suspect that the Big Dog is behind this. With everyone duped into believing that Karl Rove is the world’s greatest political strategist, they’ve forgotten who Hillary’s married to. Ask yourself: What’s the one thing that could make the President’s few remaining supporters abandon him? How about a big sloppy kiss from Hillary Clinton?
impostor. i know thee
Until reading comments on this posting, I hadn’t even considered not impeaching, but now I’m leaning against impeachment. It’s an extremely elaborate, expensive and time-consuming operation. I understand the immense emotional impetus towards a dramatic and cathartic statement, but something is telling me that this is a huge waste of resources, and more importantly, a huge waste of time, because it only gets rid of one guy. And for a very short time.
There are hurricanes headed for New Orleans again, schools headed for shutdowns, hospitals being closed, the economy collapsing. There are so many agencies being illegally gutted and sabotaged by Bush cronies and lackeys, and so many brazen law-breakers in Bush’s administration that need to be stopped as fast as possible. These low-level and unglamorous things are what really need to be fixed fast, and it’s hard to see any of them getting done with the amount of effort and emotional investment that would inevitably be channelled into an impeachment.
I’m just unhappy with saying “no impeachment” (or maybe “Together, we can do better than impeachment”) — it just seems so wimpy and uninspiring.
readerOfTeaLeaves @ 9:59 pm (#180) – You’re right, changing the Internet that way would be foolish. If those people weren’t prone to foolishness, however, we wouldn’t be discussing whether or not we should be getting out of Iraq, wouldn’t be lamenting that New Orleans might not ever be rebuilt properly, and we wouldn’t have a massive national debt that was owed to China.
Foolishness seems to be the national sport right now.
#102 – This lurker is definitely “over”
#116 – Frank Rich is the reason I read the NY Times every Sunday. Treat yourself to his column this weekend. You won’t be sorry.
Phil K #185:
Try this out “Overwhelming and permanent public repudiation of the reactionary wing of the GOP. Complete political obliteration of soft-fascist movement in US politcal life. Rubbed out in public mind like a fire ant smashed by sledgehammer”
That doesn’t sound so wimpy.
mui(179): american heritage dictionary says: “a sneaky or treacherous person.> to be evasive or equivocate.” sounds like matthews to me!
fahrender #149: Re signing statements — if I remember right, the statistic is that he’s issued twice as many signing statements as all previous presidents combined. And previous presidents didn’t subscribe to the radical theory that these statements, which are nowhere mentioned in the Constitution, make the President an equal partner in writing the law. They actually used them to comment on the interpretation, not “interpret” the law to mean “this applies to me only when I feel like it.”
mrsK8 (#162) yeah, it sounds like she listens. it’s in the pauses, among other things…..
AOL Bushpoll
Who will history judge more favorably?
George H.W. Bush 75%
George W. Bush 25%
Total Votes: 198,581
Will Bush’s poll numbers drop below his father’s low point?
Yes 85%
No 15%
Total Votes: 208,859
Cujo359 (#181),
I don’t know exactly how it works. I think the Chinese version may have more spirits in it. At any rate, some says it works if done right. I don’t discount it. I’m just not studious enough to learn much about it.And I think experts are around.
After months of carefully cultivating my on-line persona as a talking dog, in the spirit of TRex, I’ll confess:
In reality, I’m a supermodel.
Oilfield guy at # 33:
props to that post. Now back to reading the comments.
Oh and my kid graduates Magna Con Laude from CU on Fri. AM. Proudness….
punaise: o.k. i know you’ve all been waiting,
waaaaaaaaaaaay past 40. (but, i do remember what it was like).
to quote sam peckinpah: “i’m a lesbian, trapped in the body of a man.”
location: the willamette valley (oregon). great wine country. but, i’m moving to dresden for two years (or maybe three?) beginning in july…..
Cujo359 @ #186, I completely agree with your assessment of the ijits in power. They are foolish, foolish people. Just foolish enough to do something like side with the telecoms — and then get smacked up the side of their collective, brainless head come elections.
Messing with the Internet makes about as much sense as messing with Social Security. I just love it when those bastards start handing out the rope that will turn end up around their own necks.
These are many of the same people who don’t watch Colbert nightly, don’t watch Rocketboom, but DO read Cohen in the WaPo. If this is really still the Information Age, and if Information = Power, then they’d be a damn sight smarter watching Colbert and Stewart.
I’m guessing that Frist doesn’t sit at home watching Colbert… whereas Feingold… ;-)
redshift (#190):
thanks for the vocab. yeah, Pinhead’s a real piece a’ work, ain’t he?
Ah fahrender (#190). Throwing the American Heritage at me! Just like someone else I know, who’s always throwing the Oxford with it’s tiny condensed print that I can’t check without a magnifier, cause my vision’s that bad and I’m not over 40.
wesgpc #99: The problem I have with this is that you’re comparing worst-case impeachment with best-case non-impeachment.
I am extremely dubious of the prospect of mere exposure, no matter how thorough, making all these radicals and incompetents radioactive. We’ve got a government full of Watergate and Iran-Contra retreads, what does that tell you? Relying on the truth to set us free seems too much like the feeling that we understand their crimes, and if only everyone else knew what we know, they’d understand, too.
I’m willing to let go of impeaching Bush. But I’m with Kagro X (I think it was) at The Next Hurrah that we have to impeach some of these others, not just indict them or force them to resign, because we have to make sure they can never serve in government again if we’re going to cut off the head of the monster.
Two tech stories today that indicate the future of the web:
AT&T promises IPTV to low income residents
http://news.com.com/AT38T+prom…..g=nefd.top
TiVo links with Brightcove as PC-TV lines blur
http://news.com.com/TiVo+links…..g=nefd.top
Progressives must take advantage of technology to get our message out.
Redshift 190
“previous presidents didn’t subscribe to the radical theory that these statements, which are nowhere mentioned in the Constitution, make the President an equal partner in writing the law. They actually used them to comment on the interpretation, not ‘interpret’ the law to mean ‘this applies to me only when I feel like it.’”
Do you have a source for that? I would like to learn more about it. It bothered me when I heard that Clinton had issued a number of signing statements. I would like to believe his intent was not evil, like the Chimpboy’s is.
re signing statements:
looking forward to W’s resigning statement.*
(*as if)
A good recent article on the signing statements from Charlie Savage at the Boston Globe:
http://www.boston.com/news/nat…..hs_powers/
53, Topanga Cyn., CA.,
kids please; impeachment is a huge waste of time and energy. 2006 elections. head some committies. hold some hearings. 2008 elections.
“that is all” (except that committies looks suspiciously like titties).
Just wondering…
A week or two ago, Typepad had a major denial-of-service attack. Yesterday Blogger wasn’t working so well. Does anyone know where these problems are coming from?
I think I read something about the Typepad attack coming from a US military base in Germany, but that seemed to be down in the rumor noise.
I’m trying not to be toooo paranoid…
My parting thought: impeachment is a must. Cheney should resign. We win back the house and voila.
op99 144
Sharkbabe 138, that was an invitation you could drive a truck through, honeybunch.
uh, mettle to the pedal?
neurophius #203: Do you have a source for that? I would like to learn more about it. It bothered me when I heard that Clinton had issued a number of signing statements. I would like to believe his intent was not evil, like the Chimpboy’s is.
I know the radical theory originates with the neocons, I think I’ve read about the nature of the earlier signing statements was, but I’m not certain. I’ll see if I can dig something up. The statements are public records, and except for really recent ones the text should be online at the Library of Congress or something.
This is my signing-off statement for tonight.
(Oh, and “Jim”, over 40 by a bit, DC suburbs, due north.)
Rob Zuber 205
Thanks for the link on signing statements. Good article. The next step I wish the MSM would take is to investigate and find out how many of those statutes the administration has actually violated. I would assume this could be done through freedom of information act requests to the various government agencies, followed up by some good old fashioned investigative reporting…if the MSM won’t do it, maybe the blogs should…
IT question – does anybody know where/how to recover Firefox bookmarks? Mine seem to have disppeared. thanks
To quote a favorite line of mine in a Tarantino flick…Let’s not start sucking each other’s dicks just yet. There is still a long way to go before “we” can declare victory. The Gee Oh Pee is imploding in scandal after scandal and the do nothing dimbulbs are standingly idly by, perhaps wondering whether they will be rounded up the digital lynch mobs or the recipient of a drive by email from the common bloggers who have united to protect the Constitution and give the Bu$h junta the boot.
We have a long way to go and I for one, will not stop smashing in the heads of all who support Commander 30% Bunnypants. No mercy, people. No mercy. Never become complacent. That’s how a douchebag like Bu$h got the presidential selection in the first place. The entire country has been asleep at the wheel.
according to cnn.com:
Pop star Britney Spears told late-night talk show host David Letterman she’s pregnant again.
does these mean we hve to trot out that sculpture again? you know, the one with the bearskin rug?
Redshift (when you return) and others: I think the a touching faith that “the truth revealed” will do all the work is what the centrist Dems are trying now. And with about as much success as you indicate: not much. I am thinking of something much more pro-active and aggressive than that:
1) Dems wage public information war informing public about their vision for US, general policy shifts from Bush
2) Dems explain to public as part of public information war how and why specific Bush policies have been so damaging to country
3) Dems explain why specific investigations needed, in context of 1) and 2) above.
The truth campaing would not be nicey nicey or passive because Bushite wing of GOP won’t allow it. So it will have to be very agresive, and it would be ugly. And Dems would have to aggressively inform public about Dem’s interpreation of the truth in as fairminded and non-paritsan way as sitaution permits.
If criminal investigations, or impeachment are warranted in light of facts, so be it. I am simply saying that information campaign designed to discredit Bushites in public mind, far more importnat than legal or poltical mechanics, and public information campaign should come first.
So, hey folks! yes of course I am portraying the the best possible case of the truth and public information approach. I am explaining how (with the very greatist humility!) I would do it.
punaise( #209): i’ll take that test. test me, test me….
Sorry for typos. I think it is the extremely slow response of the comment facility. I can’t proof read at all after I type in nearly a whole dang sentence before it appears on the screen. I think I’ll type in word processor and paste into comment box all the time from now on. Still typos but neither as unreadable nor as humiliating that way.
punaise – Someone posted this “fixing firefox” link a while ago for zennurse. It’s probably a profile problem, but if you’re not getting a dialog asking you to choose a profile when you start firefox, I’m not sure this will help:
http://byronmiller.typepad.com…..efox_.html
wesgpc #188
Overwhelming and permanent public repudiation of the reactionary wing of the GOP. Complete political obliteration of soft-fascist movement in US politcal life. Rubbed out in public mind like a fire ant smashed by sledgehammerâ€
That’s a pretty broad set of goals, and hard to sum up in simple terms for a political campaign. In simple terms, it’s “de-nazification”, but that wouldn’t be very good for a political campaign.
As I was writing #188 I started thinking about subpoena power as a simple strategic symbol to replace impeachment. For example, when Russert asked Pelosi about impeachment, imagine if she had said, “No Tim, we’re not going to hit the president with impeachment proceedings — we’re going to hit him with subpoenas! We’re going to subpoena his butt until he begs for impeachment! Impeachment will seem like mercy.”
Also #46 Great comment. Re Schumer and Emanuel: yes, demoralizing. And then some.
on third parties:
some have posted and i have resisted. in the thirties, third parties had some impact. the greens in the 90’s have had some local success. i think that would be the place to start (locally). you could find issues germaine to locality which would make viable a third party, even today.
these times are somewhat different than the thirties. due to the massive wealth and corporate power which has accumulated in the u.s. since the thirties, the results are likely to be similar to those of nader’s: that of being a spoiler with the third party getting even less than it would have gotten supporting the democrats.
many tonight have sounded a pessimistic note about the probable outcomes of ‘06 & ‘08. i would posit that we must articulate our anger but positively, and with calculation. jane and redd and pach and many others are doing just that, and we can see the results! they are not small. however, these results are as yet just tactical, but with the possibility of leading to the strategic, with the possibility of ultimate victory.
we must remain realistic as we are, after all, the “reality-based community”. we must also be optimistic. and with that, i head off to the land of nod. but first:
FITZ! FINEGOLD! and (woof!woof!) FIREDOG LLLLAKE!
thanks JWR; I’ll try that
fahrender 217 – test?
Phil K #220: well I was thinking grand and big. I don’t want my favorite strategy to sound sissy. I agree that “de-nazificationâ€, wouldn’t be the best slogan for a political campaign. I will try to think of something both more specific and less accusatory. I would hope the facts and Democratic agruments would be accusatory enough.
The “let’s not impeach” sentiment has been swirling around my brain for a few days now, an IMHO it would be far more effective for Dems to get something productive done for the country on an immediate, everyday level to show that they mean business. It would go down very well for the long-term trust they need to secure with voters after being put back in power. Completely jettisoning the impetus to impeach may be best unless it is proven that GWB has truly done something illegal that has cost human lives, and can be proven beyond a shadow of doubt. Truly, look where the last impeachment got the Republicans…immature, stupid gloating for a small percentage of wingnuts, and no real traction with who counts – the middle 20% of the voting public. What will get traction, is results from meaningful legislation, and reversing course on all the stupidity Chimpco hath wrought.
Speaking percentages and the voting public, does anybody know what percentage of that 73% of adults on the internet are voters? Sometimes I feel like this is an echo chamber, and wonder how much of the message(s) is/are getting out to those who cannot afford to be online, but do get out and vote. I wonder if they (not-onliners) are more in the republican base or the democrat base? What is being done to reach them? Or has internet service become so basic that it’s like T.V. now? I somehow don’t think so.
In the end, it boils down to what is important to you. To me, the destruction of the Constitution and the acquiesence by DOJ and big junks of the military and Executive branches is THE issue. Taking it off the table to not give a “wedge†issue to Republicans means also taking it off the table to not give me about the only thing that really politicizes me. It’s why I have no real interest in the Democratic party any more- there is no interest in protecting the Constitution and providing for checks on government. Except for a shunned few, like Feingold, the voices that are out there are a few ex-military, a few spooks, and some actual conservative Republicans with principals. Those are “my people†right now and there aren’t too many Democratic politicians in that fold.
Coz – Impeachment is a loser. . . . The bar is “high crimes and misdemeanors†and we don’t have that (proven). The President has admitted on television his multiple and ongoing FISA violations. The President and his lawyer – now AG – have had publication of their memo that they are setting up the “enemy combatants†illusive labeling system for cabdrivers and kidnapees specifically to try to evade application of the War Crimes Act. Tack on withholding information from Congress and a few other items – how is it not proven, even though Redshift is right and you need a trial for the proof function.
I agree about thorough hearings, wesgpc, but here’s where you end up. These guys are not going to be forthcoming, even with subpoena powers. Not only that, most people somehow or someway know the standard – that high crimes and misdemeanors result in impeachment. What, again, is the message about the do nothing, stand for nothing, Dems if they are in power with a President committing crimes and they – have a hearing to look at it but do nothing?
I also realize that I don’t necessarily care as strongly about some of the polling and program issues (although I like to discuss and snark – I don’t necessarily care deeply about them – they are the shallow waters)
I don’t really care strongly that much about many things except what has happened to this country with the war, the lies leading up to the war, the immoral, illegal and unconstitutional activities with handoffs of citizens to secret military detentions, War Crimes and their cover-ups under the auspice of illegal orders, or with an illegal approach to handling civilians of other countries and pows from other countries, etc. What the Dem party is saying to me is – go buy Bruce Fein and Bob Bartlett a drink bc at least they care enough about some of the same thing to disagree with their party too.
I don’t live to see Scooter Libby go to jail – but my heart would heal in places to see Gonzales impeached and later investigated and indicted. But it will never happen – I’m resigned. I don’t really care much that Rove uses Machiavellian political maneuvering – but I do care that we have the man who authorized the torture memos sitting on the 9th Circuit in a lifetime appointment and imo, Comey with his actions re: Padilla hurt the country more than Rove.
I realize I am very non-mainstream on a lot, but I don’t care if Dusty Foggo is indicted (yeah –it will be interesting to watch and you have to enjoy things that rhyme with pogo) but I do care that our military – pursuant to pressure from Rumseld, Cambone and Haynes, still is not tough enough to stand up and say it WILL follow the Geneva Conventions (law of the land pursuant to Congressional action – another clear cut crime for Bush to order or even allow the Conventions to be abandoned and ignored) and anyone who doesn’t like it can just suck on it untill their tongue blisters.
Bills and budgets have a tendency to shake themselves out over time. Lifetime Judicial appointments are big – but even the hard right is running out of incompetent nutcases to appoint and Dems did nothing much to run interference on that (who is up to lay money on Kavanaugh?) – it’s mostly downhill from now on out. They will have to reach into the minimally qualified and only just conservative soon.
I’m with Jim about this: The saddest moment of the hearing came up during a discussion of the Bybee/Gonzalez/Abu Graib torture fiasco, when Kavanaugh said that he thought the episode “damaged the presidency, and the president.†I stayed in my seat and kept my mouth shut. It damaged the soul of our country, you little prick, and was a crime against humanity. Acquiescence is participation, case closed.
Really, folks like Kavanaugh and the right and the rest of DOJ show us a lot about the problems in Iraq. How does that “inherent desire for democracy and feedom” stack up against “support our leader and take rights way from our citizens and torture strangers all to make our leader stronger” ?
So in the end, a Dem party that isn’t willing to address the war, isn’t willing to address wiretaps, isn’t willing to address torture and war crimes – they don’t offer me much. Yeah, I will probably drag down and push some buttons later this year, but I won’t feel good about it and I really can’t imagine doing it again in 2008. I have almost no respect for most of the people and systems remaining in the process.
I like it here bc, as I think I said before, the Plame case and some of the other things addressed are like the puzzles and anagrams in the hospital waiting room. It’s a very nice distraction and it’s nice to see other people get hope out of things like the Libby investigation, or Cunningham, or sinking Bush poll numbers but for me the injuries to our inherent values and the rule of law are in the paupers wing of ICU and don’t seem to even rate a doctor to take a look.
D*mn that all sounds creepily morose!
It’s not to say I won’t be voting Dem in 2006, just to show why if I am busy at work it won’t be my top priority, and I have no one that I want to see win enough to talk them up to anyone else or drag people to the polls. I don’t really see much that it gets me to put Dems in office and by 2008, during which time I am pretty sure I won’t have seen anything more except maybe a few more lonely stands by Feingold or Murtha or Conyers that get sold out by the party, I’ll be ready to kiss it goodbye and quit worrying about “throwing away†a vote. How much more thrown away do votes get than to have Democrats read the torture memos and enemy comabatant memos and get the testimony on wiretaps showing not only the lawbreaking but the lies by Gonzales during the confirmatino hearings, and not have any of them standing up and saying, “that man should not be attorney general.”
The nice thing about the net is it does give you a way to hear about and support candidates like Lamont even if the bulk of the party leaves you disenchanted and there will, hopefully, always be a few good guys, somewhere, worth supporting.
JWR: Firefixed. thanks again.
punaise – Outfoxed it, eh? Happy to hear it.
hey wesgpc,
couldn’t find the color coded demographic map you wanted about the 30-49 year old white males supporting Bush, but I did find this from Hahvaad. Warning: PDF
http://www.iop.harvard.edu/pdf…..opline.pdf
Get your college on, kids!
actually, it wouldn’t have been too hard to reconstitute. lately my bookmarks have dwindled to one: FDL
(I jest, but still….)
Mary 224 – wow. I appreciate your perspective and share, to a large degree, the despair about the Dems. OTOH I don’t think L’Affaire Plame is a mere distraction at all – it’s part and parcel of what these thugs have stolen from us, the American people. That’s what keeps me on the edge of my chair – the hope that these bastards won’t get away with betrayal and “treason” (whether or not that is literally the case).
This website seems to have a better shot of Bush’s demographic base; over 45, white, religious, etc.
http://hotlineblog.nationaljou…..rro_3.html
Another barn-burner of a fine post, Jane.
Kids, A lesson in code….
States Rights = Segragation
Pro Life = Anti-Abortion
Shit Hits the Fan = Fecal Matter Enters the Rotating Device
Accountability = Censure
Twitty confuses My Space with this place.
What a bunch of intellectual giants.Who can be the first to post “Fitz”?The 2006 elections?The
electoral process has been hijacked!Don’t you get it you brainwashed sheep.Idiots.
Mary @ 11:46 pm (#224) – I view the Democrats as a means to an end. Those who aren’t going to get us where we need to be, which is what you described, aren’t really worth much consideration. I think it’s more important to get a few people elected who really are committed to freedom and progress than a whole bunch of folks who think that’s OK if that’s what everybody else wants. Right now Bruce Fein would get my vote over several Democrats in my state (maybe Ron Bartlett would, too, but right now that name isn’t registering). Next election, when priorities are different, I’d probably vote differently. However, Fein isn’t a typical Republican anymore than Feingold is a typical Democrat.
There doesn’t seem to be much hope that this country is going to clean itself up soon. People are tired of the war, and they’re mad about New Orleans and some of the other incompetence, but they don’t care much about other peoples’ rights and that’s how they view civil rights. Until that changes, I’m not very hopeful that we can get back to being a country ruled by reason and law, let alone things like compassion.
It’s a sad place we’re in.
jechia @ 12:22 am (#233) – Just basking in the glow of your intellectual powers for this long has made my life complete. Please, stop by again whenever your mom lets you use the computer.
Mary … I’ve been popping in for moments here and there between ykos work and each time you have posted something powerful and true … thank you.
I am startled by the “no impeachment” comments – while I doubt that we will get an impeachment, it is essential that *we* uphold the constitution and the constitution says you get impeached if you break the law. Seems pretty simple to me – and I think most people would love to see W kicked out on the sidewalk right about now.
siun @ 12:36 am (#236) – I agree. If our politicians can’t do what’s right, we still need to insist on it. There’s not much point in democracy if we can’t.
Well, I’ve had enough. Goodnight to anyone who’s still around.
Accountability = Censure, Supeonas, Committee Chairmanships.
Message = SHARED SACRIFICE See Morgan Freeman’s {Sgt. Maj. John Rawlins} speech in Glory :
Everybody’s gonna have to anty-up and kick-in.
Here’s that line :
O Lord, when gonna be our time? Gonna come a time when we all gonna hafta ante up and kick in like men, LIKE MEN!
hey siun!
___
via Kevin Drum :
NSA UPDATE….Noah Shachtman reports that former NSA director Bobby Ray Inman, who until now has been silent about the NSA’s domestic spying program, has publicly called on the president to either change the law or end the program:
“This activity is not authorized,” Inman said, as part of a panel discussion on eavesdropping that was sponsored by The New York Public Library. The Bush administration “need(s) to get away from the idea that they can continue doing it.”….He called on the president to “walk into the modern world” and change the law governing the wiretaps — or abandon the program altogether.
….Inman put the White House’s reluctance to change the surveillance regulations squarely on the shoulders of Vice President Dick Cheney. He noted that Cheney formerly served as chief of staff to President Gerald Ford, who was in power before the FISA restrictions were put in place. Cheney never really agreed with the controls, Inman asserted. “The ultimate test,” the retired admiral added, will be whether President Bush “walks away from the vice president on this.”
____
bonne nuit a tout le monde
Seemed to be abit of the blues here tonight, so I found the right song, and you all seem old enough to remember it :
LINDA RONSTADT lyrics – “Poor Poor Pitiful Me”
http://www.OldieLyrics.com
(Warren Zevon)
Well I lay my head on the railroad track
Waiting on the Double E
But the train don’t run by here no more
Poor poor pitiful me
Poor poor pitiful me
Poor poor pitiful me
Oh these boys won’t let me be
Lord have mercy on me
Woe woe is me
Well I met a man out in Hollywood
Now I ain’t naming names
Well he really worked me over good
Just like Jesse James
Yes he really worked me over good
He was a credit to his gender
Put me through some changes Lord
Sort of like a Waring blender
Poor poor pitiful me
Poor poor pitiful me
Oh these boys won’t let me be
Lord have mercy on me
Woe woe is me
Well I met a boy in the Vieux Carres
Down in Yokohama
He picked me up and he threw me down
He said “Please don’t hurt me Mama”
Poor poor pitiful me
Poor poor pitiful me
Oh these boys won’t let me be
Lord have mercy on me
Woe woe is me
Poor poor poor me
Poor poor pitiful me
Poor poor poor me
Poor poor pitiful me
Poor poor poor me
Poor poor pitiful me
Arf,arf.Hey cujo.Wipe the dog slobber off your keyboard.What is the first entry in most threads here?You don’t think a corrupted voting
process will affect the 2006 elections?.You’re a piss poor excuse for a SHEEPDOG.
…with regard to Hillary…her words are taken out of context…I think she was asked if there was anything she could say “nice” about the chimp and ALL she could say was the bit about him being fun to talk to or something…let’s face it, that isn’t much…after all he is the prez and there should be a lot more good stuff to say about the leader of the free world than just that wee scrap…does everyone really think she sounded kiss-y? …
Mary 224 Your sentiments are spot-on. But there has to be Hope somewhere in the determined minds and hearts of reasonable people who (god willing) will take this country back. For the moment, we have to take the approach of the whole “work with what you’ve got” principle when trying to secure progressive policies within our two party system. Perot and Nader proved that a third party at the national level puts too much power in the hands of the other two parties bases (read: wingnuts) at this point in our history, and we need action NOW.
It is going to be a long slog of practical, hard work to get the state of affairs in the U.S. back anywhere close to where we want it, and while giving Bush & Co. a good swift kick may appeal to our darker sides, it should only happen if it is a legal necessity. Otherwise we should just marginalize him for his remaining days as a public servant, and get on with the business of remaking our government and fixing all the damage done. Why give the MSM the spectacle it wants? How does impeachment heal the soul of our country, and not divide it further? We need to be united once more. Who can lead us through that?
Sharkbabe, OMG!
Was this foot a hand/body stand in? Anyway, kicking myself for not oralizing the shit out of that situation.
Coolest. New verb. Ever.
Uh, 30 points for creating a new (and clearly much needed) word, but you lose 50 for not getting the TOTALLY FREAKING OBVIOUS come-on that this girl was laying on you. “Touch my feet” basically translates to “Strip me. Bathe me. Take me to your tent.”
Didn’t you see “Pulp Fiction”?
World War II=The Greatest Generation
Bush World War III=The Great Degeneration
-GSD
1,047 DAYS AND THE KILLING GOES ON AND ON AND…
Good mornin’ folks, as my Gampa Ole used ta say “I gotta pulse and a blood pressure, it doesn’t get any better’n that”. With regard to Hillary, let’s let her draw fire from the wingnuts and the corporate movers and shakers, everyone here knows she doesn’t have a snowballs chance in a hot place of gettin the nomination of the Democratic Party of which I’m a part. We need her in the Senate and keepin the soccer moms and 1st year grad students in line…as long as she is representin’ New York and dancin’ ta Schumer’s tune, the Democratic Party holds on ta the Empire State. Other than that, she’s serves all the purposes of mammaries on a bore hog.
KEEP THE FAITH, PASS THE AMMUNITION AND DON’T WASTE ANY SHOTS,THERE ARE TOO MANY OF ‘EM AND AMMO IS EXPENSIVE!!!
MAYBE THAT’S “BOAR HOG”
The following quote says volumes, and it is what I have always fought against all of My life (including My childhood). It is the part that politicians, religious leaders, moms, pops, brothers, sisters, business owners, corporations — any hierarchy — hates with everything that ‘they’ are:
“They don’t operate in a way that encourages an independent, activist base with an agenda of its own. They repeat what they’re told. They’re part of a larger machine that echoes a top-down message; they have no independent voice.”
The oligarchy never wants any independent base or base of activism, for any free thinking by the lower-on-the-totem-pole life forms means that the higher-than-them echelonees will be called on to answer rationally and logically ‘their’ actions. And We do all know that ‘gods’ should not be questioned and have to justify ‘their’ actions.
But…
I will liken what will probably happen to what happens in the arena of ’sports’, that being that most of all people are nothing more than spectators — armchair quarterbacks. This countries greater populace will always be nothing more than mostly consumers (cowards), and those that understand that the most are the ones who are the actual coaches and managers and owners of the ‘team(s)’. To the “super bowl” winner will go the spoils and the most of the remainder to the actual ‘team’ members; The ‘trickle-down’ being insignificant to the commoner. It should not be about ‘winning’, but for the ’spectators’ that is what they have been trained to do, so that is all that they do.
For at least one or two elections, what is currently happening will continue and may actually continue to grow to a point of being able to effect a healthy/good change for the non-aristocratic. Unfortunately the ‘base’ of the current activism will eventually be only savoring victory(?) and end up sucking up to the ‘teams’ and wallowing in the splendiferous attire of the ‘winning’. Sure, there will still be voices in the wind, but the wind again will be howling the same tune as the current media machine is spouting now (though it may be by all new steno-pundits). The ‘base’ that remains will have to wait for another avenue to drive along, away from the hot air of the ‘machine’.
Can the ’sucking’ be lessened to a point where the distance between highs and lows of corruption will be lessened? Yes, there is a way. As a matter of fact, the ‘way’ was originally written into the Constitution, but the citizens of this country let it slip away from them by allowing another amendment to take the place of that part of the original Constitution (though there is a really good chance that the vote was rigged as so many of the current elections have been).
The ‘game’ is not just one big game, it is over a bazillion games. Each day there are bazillions of wars being waged. There are some victories and there are some loosers. So much of this countries society is a battle, and each day as we wage a war (or two or three or more), others are waging war against us. And those at the ‘top’ are sitting back laughing ‘their’ asses off at us, cuz most of all of us are nothing but fools.
Your satans are your gods:-)
What a post ! I never thought I would be so troubled over the idea of a pardon from impeachment, especially from the left side. This troubled me for several hours, it is now 4:30 am
Mary @ #274 Honey I would drink your bath water. Thank you so very much.
wesgpc- You are indeed a treasure. I don’t think we need a conspiracy to demand justice from truth, nor do Dems need to make excuses for such demands. If only Dems will demand something, anything, and soon if they want my vote back now or ever again. I have few regrets about leaving Kerrys box blank right now.
With regards to hearings and impeachment I can think of only one area that is more important, stop killing our troops and other human beings. I have and will say it in any setting.
Cindy Sheehan will be in our City Auditorium tonight feeding the roots. Time to dole out my piggy bank and kiss this lone daisy in the barrel.
Richard Cohen fucked Peter Jennings’ wife and supported the invasion of Iraq — and now he conveniently has amnesia.
But some people remember. This man is a sleazy adulterer and a pro-war chickenhawk.
Please remember that whatever he says, he’s a lying punk.
Sure to be EPU’d
from Yahoo..Ken Ritter, AP
sorry I can’t link, but here are first 2 paragraphs
LAS VEGAS – A non-nuclear explosion expected to generate a mushroom cloud over the Nevada desert will be postponed at least three weeks, while a federal court reviews plans for the blast, test officials said Tuesday.
“The planned Divine Strake experiment will not be conducted earlier than June 23,” said Cheri Abdelnour, spokeswoman for the Defense Threat Reduction Agency at Fort Belvoir, Va. The blast was originally scheduled for June 2
can’t be a new thread yet, so guess there’s still time to out self:
45, nara jp, been husband to my japanese husband for 13 yrs…
Why are mentally ill people talking heads should be a topic at some point
comparing signs of mental illness to their
unrealistic views of the world today
time for
M. Scot Peck’s Book
People of the Lie
just a drive by from my Treo at the conference center to say hello to all!
Why do Democrats talk about the “culture of corruption”? It sounds so wimpy; and Congress has probably had a culture of corruption since it began.
What’s novel about this regime is that the corruption became centralized and regulated from the Majority Leader’s office. Why not “organization of corruption” or “system of corruption”?
W,F,55+,Eastern Maine seeking like minded others for intelligent speculation, outrage, humor and wit, political action,and………..oh wait, I’m HERE, thank god….
It seems Mr. Matthews can be pressured to be fair. So he must be pressured constantly.
These self-appointed elites must attacked with their own weapons–ridicule and scorn. Digby is right (of course)–they are Heathers, and every teenage girl knows how to fight them. Pit them against each other, and watch them eat their own.
1,047 DAYS AND THE KILLING GO9ES ON AND ON…
Prof. Froland:
How ’bout “the science of corruption”…Machiavelli’s science of politics and statecraft has jest been transcended.
KEEP THE FAITH AND THEY’LL ALL DANCE IN HELL!!!
One thing I’d like to see more is, instead of this “angry” thing, that bloggers are the concerned citizenry of the world, the ones that aren’t completely paralyzed by the Bush administration and other seats of power: governments, corporations and institutions that seek to subjugate the common people.
G’mornin’ folks. Boy, seeing “Ole 60 Grit” first thing really has a way of putting me off my coffee. Yeesh.
Sorry if this has already been said, but I have to get to court this AM.
The right wing is attacking bloggers and visitors to their site as left wing fringe, because they get it. They want to marginalize blogs, knowing that the media will tow their party line, and that most of the D Leadership will cower and not defend left-leaning blogs. Reason, it is not the political leadership they are attacking, but only the blogs. So no sweat off of their back.
We need to let our senators, representatives, and D Party Leadership know that if they do not strike back or defend against the R repetitive attacks, that we will take note and remember who supports us when they are running for reelection and need our support and donations. It may not be this election cycle, as America has to take back control, even if we get mealy mouthed officials with a D next to their name, but they need to know that when we have a real choice between a tepid D and a real progressive/liberal D, we will let our votes, internet grassroots and campaign donations speak LOUDLY!!!
JMHO
…and, (unfortunately in some cases), the powerful include celebrities: movie stars, authors, etc. We can now add another, probably less gentritied subcategory here: famous bloggers.
Good morning everyone. I must have missed the original question about our status, but ‘be not afraid’ is my mantra these days, sooooo,
61 and still learning — thanks to Reddhead, Jane, FDL commenters, and many well spent hours reading bonddad and Jerome in Paris at DailyKos.
Is anyone else getting a little tired of these violent metaphors? “Angry mob”, “War on Christmas, Easter”, etc. are starting to ring a little hollow. The soldiers and civilians in Iraq are actually living it and the soft hands set keep comparing idealogical arguments to sticks and stones. I think we need to set the tone to shaming people who continue to make these comparisons as they aren’t appropriate. War is Hell, writing columns and media apperances are not.
Sorry I’m not more articulate, just wanted to put in my two cents. This would be my first posting on the fantabulous FDL and I gotta say how much I love you guys. True patriots.
oops, forgot to post my age.
I’m 47 and a half.
Fire — Your hard work, and I think your one of the most serious and therefore, credible — is not going unnoticed!! Or unheeded! Pls keep it up. Out of all the blogs, yours is truly one worth reading and it’s on my top 3
list.
I wroked in government for a long time! It’s the letters, baby! (e-mails included… Pols hate letters! Or at least the crtical ones. They hate them more than phone calls because it is written and people cc them to others etc.)
But, the fact your getting press or TV media
also rankles the H out of them because their over paid press experts can’t control the message as they do w MSM (read: relationships)
and that DRIVES THEM CRAZY!!!!
So, by all means — KEEP IT GOING!!! Power to the people who pay for all of their corruption!
JK
!ztiF
What time is it kids?
It’s EPU’dee Time.
Hie thee to the next heapin’ pile ‘o words.
–
punaise (#222 re: my 217):
……as in “your mettle”.
J i O: (i lurv the EPU’d). nothing more romantic than the Zone. coyote can be found there too….
TRex (#246): I’m guessing, but you probably had to be there…….
sounds like the Shark might be besotted. be careful, SB, world o’ hurt in that posture. good luck!
Two words…’toe-sucking’
Go over to “TruthOut” and read William Rivers Pitt’s letter back to Cohn. Very good read.
fahrender,
OK, coyotes and how about blog-whoring Wednesday?
Anyone got a favorite obscure blog or other web site?
Here’s one from me: View from Iran The link goes to a post about how to negotiate with an Iranian. I liked it.
Got to go…be back later.
–
I just read the Pitt letter to Cohen, and feel compelled to repost the link. Anyone who doesn’t feel angry is either suicidally disengaged, belligerently ignorant, or a Kool-Aid drinking reThuglican. Pitt nailed down most of what animates the dialogue, and I hope Cohen has enough humanity left for the message to change him.
Jeany,
I also read Pitt’s letter to Cohen and have scared the poor cat on more than one occasion yelling and stomping around in a fit of fury.
–
Glenn Greenwald quotes Justice R H Jackson in an importnt post.
“men have discovered no technique for long preserving free government except that the Executive be under the law, and that the law be made by parliamentary deliberations.”
Important stuff. Go read.
–
“toe sucking”? what in the world has the EPU’d Zone become?
please tell me this doesn’t involve that wingnut hack Victoria Toe ‘n Sucking
The NewsHour had a spot about an update on the Abramof scandal last night. In the middle of talking about the scandal, they then began to discuss the bipartisan nature of corruption in Washington. The segue was so smooth, it implied that the Abramoff scandal was bipartisan.
I guess they couldn’t simply present only the Abramoff scandal by itself because of it Republican nature. That would violate MSM’s tit for tat political reporting of late.
Keep up the constant noise and repetition about Republican corruption. Eventually it filters down to the nonreadiing neanderthal voters.
Hi time travalers, J i O, FDLangoliers,
Very interesting article/link on Iran. Should be taken at a critical distance though, I think. I actually printed it out for later reading.
Computer problems here, signing off.