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	<title>Comments on: FDL Book Salon:  Crashing The Gate, Week 2</title>
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		<title>By: Rayne</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/05/07/fdl-book-salon-crashing-the-gate-week-2/#comment-95821</link>
		<dc:creator>Rayne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 May 2006 11:59:47 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;sona (210) — have faith.  Sometimes the answer is simply avoiding what failed — and CtG pointed out all the pitfalls — and returning to our roots.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It’s been a curse to live here in union country, and a boon as well.  The blessing is learning from the folks who see from a 50,000 foot perspective. The wisest of the union folks point out that the unions organized in the early days, one-to-one, mano-a-mano, over the kitchen table.  They went to each and every worker’s house and sat down with them and talked.  And talked a LOT. They didn’t take any one worker for granted; they worked to persuade every single one of them to join the union.  It worked.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And there’s part of the answer; CtG isn’t quite as prescriptive about this as you might like, but it’s between the lines.  We need to make contact with each and every voter at least three times between now and election day to increase our turn out.  We need to see each of these voters as individuals, not just aggregates — although the aggregates do offer guidance on where to start a conversation.  The DNC’s 50-State Strategy will make a difference since it moves us down the road with door-to-door contact, but much of the winning effort can only be assured by your local party and progressive organizations putting people out there to ask for the vote.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sona (210) — have faith.  Sometimes the answer is simply avoiding what failed — and CtG pointed out all the pitfalls — and returning to our roots.</p>
<p>It’s been a curse to live here in union country, and a boon as well.  The blessing is learning from the folks who see from a 50,000 foot perspective. The wisest of the union folks point out that the unions organized in the early days, one-to-one, mano-a-mano, over the kitchen table.  They went to each and every worker’s house and sat down with them and talked.  And talked a LOT. They didn’t take any one worker for granted; they worked to persuade every single one of them to join the union.  It worked.</p>
<p>And there’s part of the answer; CtG isn’t quite as prescriptive about this as you might like, but it’s between the lines.  We need to make contact with each and every voter at least three times between now and election day to increase our turn out.  We need to see each of these voters as individuals, not just aggregates — although the aggregates do offer guidance on where to start a conversation.  The DNC’s 50-State Strategy will make a difference since it moves us down the road with door-to-door contact, but much of the winning effort can only be assured by your local party and progressive organizations putting people out there to ask for the vote.</p>
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		<title>By: sona</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/05/07/fdl-book-salon-crashing-the-gate-week-2/#comment-95152</link>
		<dc:creator>sona</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 May 2006 21:59:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/05/07/fdl-book-salon-crashing-the-gate-week-2/#comment-95152</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Cujo (#208) sheets it to too many lawyers.  No its not that - its more a disconnect between a macro interpretation of too diverse micro realities as Rayne said (#207)….&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;People skils - thats an idea but scorned in this day and age of aggreesively intolerant nationalism  as being too namby pamby ………… &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;As I said before, CTG is very incisive re the problems but does not provide the answers …………&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Its no good finding supporting evidence of the issues already identified in the book but to propose strategies to overcome the bottlenecks.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;K folks, the cheese eating (I love cheese) frogs stormed the proverbial Bastille, the Brits delivered a kick, not really de grace, what do we do?  Do we wait till fall to ‘decider’ WMDs on Iran?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;None of the above proposes a strategy at all and I wish I had a strategy to propose but Bush proclaimed once upon a time that “the world is hearing the voice of freedom from the center of the Middle East” - and that sonorous voice of freedom produced this: &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article12969.htm&quot;&gt;http://www.informationclearing.....e12969.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I don’t have a strategy to overcome political machinations, however important they are, because I am lost and I cannot keep from crying.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cujo (#208) sheets it to too many lawyers.  No its not that &#8211; its more a disconnect between a macro interpretation of too diverse micro realities as Rayne said (#207)….</p>
<p>People skils &#8211; thats an idea but scorned in this day and age of aggreesively intolerant nationalism  as being too namby pamby ………… </p>
<p>As I said before, CTG is very incisive re the problems but does not provide the answers …………</p>
<p>Its no good finding supporting evidence of the issues already identified in the book but to propose strategies to overcome the bottlenecks.  </p>
<p>K folks, the cheese eating (I love cheese) frogs stormed the proverbial Bastille, the Brits delivered a kick, not really de grace, what do we do?  Do we wait till fall to ‘decider’ WMDs on Iran?</p>
<p>None of the above proposes a strategy at all and I wish I had a strategy to propose but Bush proclaimed once upon a time that “the world is hearing the voice of freedom from the center of the Middle East” &#8211; and that sonorous voice of freedom produced this: <a href="http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article12969.htm">http://www.informationclearing&#8230;..e12969.htm</a></p>
<p>I don’t have a strategy to overcome political machinations, however important they are, because I am lost and I cannot keep from crying.</p>
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		<title>By: Rayne</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/05/07/fdl-book-salon-crashing-the-gate-week-2/#comment-94838</link>
		<dc:creator>Rayne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 May 2006 18:53:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/05/07/fdl-book-salon-crashing-the-gate-week-2/#comment-94838</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Cujo359 (208) — umm, I want to name names here, but let’s just say that the lawyer-thing is wider than just political campaigns.  There are a lot in the party machine.  I want to know why there aren’t more marketing people running the show.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cujo359 (208) — umm, I want to name names here, but let’s just say that the lawyer-thing is wider than just political campaigns.  There are a lot in the party machine.  I want to know why there aren’t more marketing people running the show.</p>
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		<title>By: Cujo359</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/05/07/fdl-book-salon-crashing-the-gate-week-2/#comment-94629</link>
		<dc:creator>Cujo359</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 May 2006 16:55:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/05/07/fdl-book-salon-crashing-the-gate-week-2/#comment-94629</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Rayne @ 5:03 pm (#182) - Good analysis. I think the heart of that problem is that most political campaigns tend to be dominated by lawyers. I have nothing against lawyers, but I wouldn’t choose them to run a company. They inevitably think about how to protect the company from all sorts of legal liability, and generally that means that there’s nothing you can actually do. Everything has a risk. Successful business people know that and learn to minimize those risks. They know that you evaluate the performance of something before you pour lots of money into it. In short, lawyers and business people tend to think differently. I, BTW, am neither.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I can define this problem, but I’m not sure what the cure is. Maybe someone with people skills can offer a suggestion.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rayne @ 5:03 pm (#182) &#8211; Good analysis. I think the heart of that problem is that most political campaigns tend to be dominated by lawyers. I have nothing against lawyers, but I wouldn’t choose them to run a company. They inevitably think about how to protect the company from all sorts of legal liability, and generally that means that there’s nothing you can actually do. Everything has a risk. Successful business people know that and learn to minimize those risks. They know that you evaluate the performance of something before you pour lots of money into it. In short, lawyers and business people tend to think differently. I, BTW, am neither.</p>
<p>I can define this problem, but I’m not sure what the cure is. Maybe someone with people skills can offer a suggestion.</p>
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		<title>By: Rayne</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/05/07/fdl-book-salon-crashing-the-gate-week-2/#comment-94505</link>
		<dc:creator>Rayne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 May 2006 15:01:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/05/07/fdl-book-salon-crashing-the-gate-week-2/#comment-94505</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;sona (206) — here’s an example of the local market knowledge being important.  Have a small race that encompasses (6) precincts.  (3) precincts are white-German heritage-conservative-farmers, the other (3) are 30%each white-AfricanAmerican-Hispanic-bluecollar.  The next race over to the north for a similar seat is entirely African-American, the race to the south is predominately white-conservative-split ticket. All three races straddle a divide in cable providers and reach of one of the cable programmers.  All three race are served by  right-wing-owned newspapers and a single mega-right-wing talk radio channel.  A national Dem consultant will NOT grok how to handle this effectively, as we are currently seeing from results of races at state versus local level; the right is doing fine for a higher level race, but the meat of the ‘winger’s platform is non-existent and it’s beginning to show.  Local marketing by region within the state or even county-by-count managed by a project manager would do a much better job.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sona (206) — here’s an example of the local market knowledge being important.  Have a small race that encompasses (6) precincts.  (3) precincts are white-German heritage-conservative-farmers, the other (3) are 30%each white-AfricanAmerican-Hispanic-bluecollar.  The next race over to the north for a similar seat is entirely African-American, the race to the south is predominately white-conservative-split ticket. All three races straddle a divide in cable providers and reach of one of the cable programmers.  All three race are served by  right-wing-owned newspapers and a single mega-right-wing talk radio channel.  A national Dem consultant will NOT grok how to handle this effectively, as we are currently seeing from results of races at state versus local level; the right is doing fine for a higher level race, but the meat of the ‘winger’s platform is non-existent and it’s beginning to show.  Local marketing by region within the state or even county-by-count managed by a project manager would do a much better job.</p>
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		<title>By: sona</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/05/07/fdl-book-salon-crashing-the-gate-week-2/#comment-94445</link>
		<dc:creator>sona</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 May 2006 13:24:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/05/07/fdl-book-salon-crashing-the-gate-week-2/#comment-94445</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Rayne (#202), I hope you are right about recruiting marketing personnel locally.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Tenessean (#203), you ignore the fact that when the stink gets too overpowering, people are no longer prepared to hold their collective nose.  UK local elections showed that - people want Blair out and rendered him a burnt toast.  The party executive will have to force the issue not to self implode.  There as here, the electorate is crying out for an articulate vision of leadership rather than fence sitters.  Netroots notwithstanding, Democrat candidates ignore this at their peril.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rayne (#202), I hope you are right about recruiting marketing personnel locally.</p>
<p>Tenessean (#203), you ignore the fact that when the stink gets too overpowering, people are no longer prepared to hold their collective nose.  UK local elections showed that &#8211; people want Blair out and rendered him a burnt toast.  The party executive will have to force the issue not to self implode.  There as here, the electorate is crying out for an articulate vision of leadership rather than fence sitters.  Netroots notwithstanding, Democrat candidates ignore this at their peril.</p>
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		<title>By: Rayne</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/05/07/fdl-book-salon-crashing-the-gate-week-2/#comment-94436</link>
		<dc:creator>Rayne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 May 2006 13:16:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/05/07/fdl-book-salon-crashing-the-gate-week-2/#comment-94436</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Tennessean (203) — this is a democracy (allegedly) and we the people, netroots or otherwise, vote for our representatives.  We don’t vote for or against consultants.  Further, if the DNC’s 50-State Strategy makes a dent, the consultants will be less of an issue by 2008.  The test is 2006 and it’s about the netroots/grassroots.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Penn has the luxury of counseling a candidate to whom a lot of money will gravitate for many reasons; that’s all the more reason to completely ignore what he says and concentrate on the races in our own backyard.  If a candidate has a crappy consultant, we need to be in the face of the candidate and the consultant both RIGHT NOW and telling them they have passed the buffer zone and must now produce results.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;There is an important point about the nature of small money today that is not made; email messages work on a segment of the population that is not the same as the highly-wired netroots.  Clinton may be drawing heavily on this group; they are typically older, more conservative folks versus the netroots.  Certainly makes it easier for Penn to counsel Clinton as he did, knowing the market segmentation as he does.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tennessean (203) — this is a democracy (allegedly) and we the people, netroots or otherwise, vote for our representatives.  We don’t vote for or against consultants.  Further, if the DNC’s 50-State Strategy makes a dent, the consultants will be less of an issue by 2008.  The test is 2006 and it’s about the netroots/grassroots.</p>
<p>Penn has the luxury of counseling a candidate to whom a lot of money will gravitate for many reasons; that’s all the more reason to completely ignore what he says and concentrate on the races in our own backyard.  If a candidate has a crappy consultant, we need to be in the face of the candidate and the consultant both RIGHT NOW and telling them they have passed the buffer zone and must now produce results.</p>
<p>There is an important point about the nature of small money today that is not made; email messages work on a segment of the population that is not the same as the highly-wired netroots.  Clinton may be drawing heavily on this group; they are typically older, more conservative folks versus the netroots.  Certainly makes it easier for Penn to counsel Clinton as he did, knowing the market segmentation as he does.</p>
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		<title>By: Tennessean</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/05/07/fdl-book-salon-crashing-the-gate-week-2/#comment-94414</link>
		<dc:creator>Tennessean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 May 2006 12:44:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/05/07/fdl-book-salon-crashing-the-gate-week-2/#comment-94414</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;How will it affect 2008? We will test how dedicated grassroots and net political activists really are to the propositions they are expounding on in their books. Here’s the truth, and it’s unpleasant to contemplate: If Markos , Jerome, Eli, and others really believe, they should be prepared to campaign for activists to vote against any Dem nomineee aligned with consultants like Penn and Shrum. Are Democrats prepared to lose 2008 because they refuse to vote for Hillary (or a nominee like her) in large numbers–ON PRINCIPLE?  I doubt it. That’s why Penn says “IGNORE” the netroots. He knows, and Hillary knows, Democrats will hold their noses and vote for the nominee–whoever they are. Want to carve out a third candidate, who will run as an independent? Russ Feingold maybe? That will cost Dems, too; Republicans will win that battle. So, basically, if the netroots are willing to lose and let America have another 8 years of the GOP, we can prevail and actually influence the Democratic Party. If we care more about winning in 2006 and 2008, we’ll end up being sell-outs. That’s what everyone is banking on.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How will it affect 2008? We will test how dedicated grassroots and net political activists really are to the propositions they are expounding on in their books. Here’s the truth, and it’s unpleasant to contemplate: If Markos , Jerome, Eli, and others really believe, they should be prepared to campaign for activists to vote against any Dem nomineee aligned with consultants like Penn and Shrum. Are Democrats prepared to lose 2008 because they refuse to vote for Hillary (or a nominee like her) in large numbers–ON PRINCIPLE?  I doubt it. That’s why Penn says “IGNORE” the netroots. He knows, and Hillary knows, Democrats will hold their noses and vote for the nominee–whoever they are. Want to carve out a third candidate, who will run as an independent? Russ Feingold maybe? That will cost Dems, too; Republicans will win that battle. So, basically, if the netroots are willing to lose and let America have another 8 years of the GOP, we can prevail and actually influence the Democratic Party. If we care more about winning in 2006 and 2008, we’ll end up being sell-outs. That’s what everyone is banking on.</p>
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		<title>By: Rayne</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/05/07/fdl-book-salon-crashing-the-gate-week-2/#comment-94410</link>
		<dc:creator>Rayne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 May 2006 12:19:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/05/07/fdl-book-salon-crashing-the-gate-week-2/#comment-94410</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;sona (200) — in re: The Consultant Problem, I feel confident that Dean and the DNC have a handle on that, but the DNC is not in a position to do anything directly about it.  It’s obvious to me that the DNC is NOT spending money on these same consultants and is plowing the money back into the grassroots; this pisses off the DSCC/DCCC since they used to view the DNC as their piggybank.  But the DNC’s stated role is the growth and promotion of the party, not the promotion of any particular Dem; the DSCC/DCCC are in the business of promotion for specific Senate/House candidates/incumbents.  It would behoove every candidate/incumbent to grok this point and be more savvy about their campaign processes, including expecting more and better from consultants.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;There is one best practice for most candidates. Hire marketing folks locally: they know their constituents, their market.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sona (200) — in re: The Consultant Problem, I feel confident that Dean and the DNC have a handle on that, but the DNC is not in a position to do anything directly about it.  It’s obvious to me that the DNC is NOT spending money on these same consultants and is plowing the money back into the grassroots; this pisses off the DSCC/DCCC since they used to view the DNC as their piggybank.  But the DNC’s stated role is the growth and promotion of the party, not the promotion of any particular Dem; the DSCC/DCCC are in the business of promotion for specific Senate/House candidates/incumbents.  It would behoove every candidate/incumbent to grok this point and be more savvy about their campaign processes, including expecting more and better from consultants.</p>
<p>There is one best practice for most candidates. Hire marketing folks locally: they know their constituents, their market.</p>
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		<title>By: Dumbo</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/05/07/fdl-book-salon-crashing-the-gate-week-2/#comment-94407</link>
		<dc:creator>Dumbo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 May 2006 12:07:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/05/07/fdl-book-salon-crashing-the-gate-week-2/#comment-94407</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I don’t think anybody would CARE that much about consultants bilking donors and taking too much off the top if they could GET RESULTS.  But they don’t.  That’s the bottom line.  They’re not just greedy.  They’re ineffective.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Look at how the Republicans approach campaigns.  They play to WIN, even to the point of breaking the rules, risking career and reputation.  As much as we may hate people like Delay and Rove, you have to give them some credit for having something in them that makes them want to win more than to just show up for work and get paid and protect their positions within the party.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I remember that scene from The Last Emperor: the young emperor orders the eunuchs out of the Forbidden City because they’ve been stealing.  As they leave, they all carry a small urn.  When the emperor protests them taking things with him, he is reminded that what they are carrying is their own testicles.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I say kick out the consultants out.  Let them keep their dessicated testicles.  Souvenirs for their corrupt and fruitless administration.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don’t think anybody would CARE that much about consultants bilking donors and taking too much off the top if they could GET RESULTS.  But they don’t.  That’s the bottom line.  They’re not just greedy.  They’re ineffective.</p>
<p>Look at how the Republicans approach campaigns.  They play to WIN, even to the point of breaking the rules, risking career and reputation.  As much as we may hate people like Delay and Rove, you have to give them some credit for having something in them that makes them want to win more than to just show up for work and get paid and protect their positions within the party.</p>
<p>I remember that scene from The Last Emperor: the young emperor orders the eunuchs out of the Forbidden City because they’ve been stealing.  As they leave, they all carry a small urn.  When the emperor protests them taking things with him, he is reminded that what they are carrying is their own testicles.</p>
<p>I say kick out the consultants out.  Let them keep their dessicated testicles.  Souvenirs for their corrupt and fruitless administration.</p>
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