
(This is week 2 of our discussion of Crashing the Gate. Today authors Jerome Armstrong and Markos Moulitsas Zuniga will be joining in (part I is here). Over the next two weeks we’ll be discussing Before the Storm: Barry Goldwater and the Unmaking of the American Consensus
, and author Rick Perlstein will be joining us in the second week.)
In the second half of the book Crashing the Gate, Jerome Armstrong and Markos Moulitsas take on the problems that confront progressives trying to establish a voice in government, and unfortunately that has as much to do with Democrats as it does Republicans. There are three points today that I’d like to discuss:
The Consultant Problem
Anyone who has ever stumbled across a liberal blog has probably seen someone bitching about Bob Shrum, the man who is 0-8 as a Democratic consultant in Presidential elections. Losing has paid off big-time for Shrum, who took in $11 million for his services to the Kerry campaign — including $5 million in advertising commissions. It’s a system that offers lucrative rewards for consultants with every TV ad they place, in an era where television is less and less effective at targeting voters. As they say:
[George Bush's] campaign paid their media consultants a flat fee of $6 million and saved themselves a whopping $8 million compared to what Kerry and the Democrats spent. And to make the fee disparity that much starker, the RNC and Bush campaigns collectively placed $222 million worth of ads compared to the DNC and Kerry campaign’s $150 million.
They go on to recount the story of how Shrum reached into the pockets of Al Checchi, the multimillionaire head of Northwest Airlines, and got him to spend $40 million in the 1998 California governor’s race. Shrum made $2 million off the campaign. They quote political strategist Mike Ford who said:
Checci got ripped off by Shrum. I watched this in horror. Look at how much of his own money Shrum had him spend to come in third out of three.
While they quote Nancy Todd Tyner, president of the American Association of Political Consultants as saying "If you want to get the best media consultants, this is the way it’s done," not everyone agrees. Hillary Clinton, no dope when it comes to running a campaign, negotiated a flat fee with media consultant Mandy Grunwald for her 2000 race. It seems like wisdom would dictate that hiring Bob Shrum is the kiss of death in and of itself, but if it isn’t clear after reading the book that de-incentivising Democratic consultants from making poor media choices is somewhat imperative, I don’t know what it will take.
It’s a conversation that most voters probably aren’t really going to care about. How can pressure be brought within the party to cease making losing a profitable and personally rewarding enterprise?
Infrastructure
One of the most overwhelming parts of the book, especially for someone unfamiliar with the history of the subject, is the elaborate conservative infrastructure that exists with almost no answer on the progressive side. While there are myriad fast track career organizations for developing young GOP talent such as Matthew Continetti (whom Pach wrote about in a brilliant must-read post from last night), progressives are supposed to starve for their activism:
The Left does have a fair number of organizations…Most issue groups have training arms as well…but they are a different beast than what the right has built. Iara Peng, one of the progressive movement’s top young stars and head of Young People for the American Way, looks at these progressive groups and finds them significantly different from the right’s leadership organizations. "Are they collaborative? No. Are they long term? No. Do they work with an individual over the course of their careers? No," said Peng. "Can anybody find out about these institutes and just take a course? Get trained? Not really. At least not without lots of money — usually conferences/ trainings cost so much you only get older white people attending."
I won’t even try to get into the right wing think tank racket here, except to point out Markos and Jerome’s interesting observation about how they use individual states as a testing ground for their ideas:
It’s a network that exists largely outside of D.C., allowing the conservative movement to use the states as a laboratory for its ideas. School vouchers, for example, originated in a Wisconsin think tank, spread to a few states…got kicked around their idea factories, received the treatment from language manipulators ("framers," in popular parlance) like Frank Luntz, hit a few focus groups and polls, then debuted on Capitol Hill as a Republican legislative priority.
We discussed a bit yesterday how the ten planks of Newt Gingrich’s "Contract with America" (or "Contract On America," if you like) were Heritage Foundation work product developed and road tested throughout the 80s and 90s — Newt came up with none of them. It really amounts to sophisticated marketing techniques, but when the answer on the side of the Democrats is to all sit around in a bunch of meetings and emerge with a slogan like "Together We Can Do Better" (oh lordy that one hurts every time) it indicates how woefully behind the 8-ball the Dems are on this front.
Progressives are supposed to be the innovative ones, the creative crowd with the ideas. How have the party of luddites been able to dominate this game, and what will it take to drag the Democrats into the 21st Century?
Resistance to the netroots
I wrote about this a bit yesterday in a post about Markos’ Op-Ed in the Wapo, but one of the most interesting parts of the book had to do with the changes wrought in the Democratic party by the passage of McCain-Feingold in 2002. Ironically, limiting big donations was much more of a threat to Democrats than Republicans; the GOP had by then developed sophisticated direct marketing campaigns to target small donors, but the Democrats were dependent on big dollar contributors — and many liked it that way.
They recount a spat between Hillary Clinton and Russ Feingold where Hillary told Feingold to "go fuck himself." But as they note:
Feingold told us that he knew he was stepping on toes inside his own party, but he saw no choice…Feingold faced down his party and force it to reconnect with its base.
It is telling that the consultants in the Hillary campaign are still hostile to the netroots. As Markos noted yesterday:
Meanwhile, pollster Mark Penn, a brilliant numbers guy, has counseled the Hillary team to ignore the party’s netroots activists as "irrelevant."
Which leads me to one of my favorite quotes of the book, from Eli Pariser of MoveOn PAC, and an email sent out in December of 2004:
In the last year, grass-roots contributors like us gave more than $300 million to tohe Kerry campaign and the DNC, and proved that the party doesn’t need corporate cash to be competitive. Now it’s our party: we bought it, we own it, and we’re going to take it back.
Candidates like Hillary Clinton have already amassed impressive war chests relying on big donors. But unlike yesteryear, the ability to do so no longer makes you the only game in town.
I’m curious to know what people think — how will this affect the 2008 election?
Related posts:
- FDL Book Salon Welcomes Matthew Kerbel, Netroots: Online Progressives and the Transformation of American Politics
- FDL Book Salon Welcomes Hillary Rettig, The Lifelong Activist: How to Change the World Without Losing Your Way
- FDL Book Salon Welcomes Eric Boehlert, Bloggers on the Bus: How the Internet Changed Politics and the Press
- FDL Book Salon Discusses “The Test Of Our Times” With Gov. Tom Ridge
- FDL Book Salon Welcomes David Swanson, Daybreak: Undoing the Imperial Presidency and Forming a More Perfect Union





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Fitz!
Ahhh. Crap.
OT but funny: apropos Goss — according to Rozen at http://www.warandpiece.com/blogdirs/004109.html
it was hookers
Angie, you are fitz!…I mean….fast!
Rah Rah Fitz Boom Bah !
I can’t even begin to describe what a profound effect this book had on my thinking. If anyone hasn’t read it yet do yourself a favor and read it ASAP; I’ve said it before, it’s light years ahead of anything else out there with regard to the netroots and the future of the Democratic party. It’s an amazing achievement.
Does this mean that the fish discussion is over?
Afternoon everyone. So excited to discuss the second half of Crashing the Gate. What a fantastic book. Big thanks to Jerome and Markos for the heavy lifting on this. And Jane, great discussion framing. :)
(Oh, and Wilson….hookers….mwahahahahahahaha)
BTW — since this is a discussion of the book, I’m going to ask that for this particular thread we remain on topic. If you want to talk OT, feel free to do so on the previous post here.
why, shooogarp, that is the nicest thing that’s been said about me for a long while… (blushing). I’m keeping it! ;)
Welcome, Markos, if you’re out there.
rwcole, lol, truly! Enjoyed it.
I’m curious to know if there has been blowback already from Hillary’s minions after the WaPo op-ed.
I also agree about our lack of a farm team and want to know if anyone thinks that the Wellstone Action plan is going to be be a great, good, or so-so help in this.
RevDeb: can you post a link to info about the Wellstone Action PLan for people?
Hey, thanks again Jane. I get asked about how things like the consultants are gonna change– cause it’s not gonna happen for ‘06 (all the major campaigns are doing it the same old way). At least the one good thing about Clinton was that she (in 2000) made her TV consultant work on commission.
Jane said, “I’m curious to know what people think — how will this affect the 2008 election?”
If we don’t raise hell now, the netroots may not have an Internet as we know it to organize around.
I meant she made her consultant work on flat fee.
RevDeb 13 — I’m curious to know if there has been blowback already from Hillary’s minions after the WaPo op-ed.
Was there anything they would be upset about? It doesn’t seem that they find any need to keep their feelings about the netroots a secret.
Wellstone has camps and trainings for political activism. They are trying to lots of things. Not having gotten involved, I don’t know anything from the inside nor do I know anyone who does.
Here’s my big consultant question: when are we going to start using the GOP model of doing fee for services rather than the big ass bonus structure and other floating payments that Dem consultants seem to get? What’s the point of continuing to pay Shrum and Devine and their ilk bonuses for campaigns that go down the toilet as they head toward the finish line? Why not reward success and stop rewarding failure — wouldn’t THAT be a kick?
Hi Jerome, thanks for stopping by. You mentioned that Feingold’s guy was willing to work on a flat fee. But are any of the ‘06 Senatorial races not running that way, to the best of your knowledge?
Isn’t Markos on some sort of online forum with the post today, how’d that go?
Have the authors considered creating media such as podcasts or videocasts in an attempt to reach a larger audience?
Jane,
Just wondering if there has been any response in the OPEN about it.
I would really like to stick around for answers, but have to run off, family obligations. Sorry to ask and run. Please forgive me.
BTW, we assume Mandy Grunwald will be working for Hillary ‘08. Will that set any kind of prescedent, do you think?
I like fish.
At the kickoff of their book tour, and in writings since, I heard Jerome and Markos say that reaction to their book by the insiders has been more positive than they expected. As for consultants targeted specifically and generically in the book, they have been keeping a low profile, out of respect for our collective noice machine.
My own recent experience with insiders suggests that many are awakening to the power of the roots but still don’t know how to deal with us.
Markos is right that Hillary’s power in the party is the central hub of insiderism. Here at FDL, we went after that approach to politics much in the way Markos did here: http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..s-of-1992/
If the roots are to succeed, how do we address this style of politics, practiced by Hillary and others, without weakening the chances for progressives to succeed through inflitration of and use of the Democratic Party? What do people think?
And what are the odds that candidates will get to do more of their campaign hiring locally — with people who actually know the terrain — rather than being micromanaged from DC? I know it’s not likely with Schumer and Emmanuel, but at some point, shouldn’t even the cocktail weenie crowd get tired of getting their asses kicked in the hinterlands?
IMPERCH!! OK I’ll go home now.
No Jane, I don’t know of a single high profile race that isn’t paying commissions– I don’t even know if they are venturing off of doing 90-100% broadcast television with the expenditures. I admit I haven’t done a query of them all, but I doubt any of the old dogs have learned a new trick yet– it’s not like the candidates are telling them too.
I didn’t see Markos over at the Post today. What chat was he supposed to be on?
Christy No. 28 “at some point, shouldn’t even the cocktail weenie crowd get tired of getting their asses kicked in the hinterlands?”
Not as long as the money keeps coming.
That said, NPI has done some really good work around this issue, and they have at least put out the information in DC that we are in 2006, not 1986.
Jane, 25, I would hope so– that should be a litmus.
27 — Pach that was a very good post. It was one of the spots I didn’t get to in the discussion lead-off, but which I’m very interested in: how is the thinking of the Democrats, and also of the interest groups, stuck in the 70s? They seem to be operating under a model that developed when the Democrats were the majority party, and hasn’t adapted to the new political landscape.
tom chicago and others: please use this thread to remin on topic. Other comments can go on the thread below.
how the heck does Hillary’s rejection of the powerful blogger community jive with –”In a call to bloggers this afternoon monitored by RAW STORY, House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) outlined the Democratic strategy for winning the 2006 elections.”
Ah, it’s monday, not today:
6:40 a.m. PT — WaPo radio show (beats me where it airs) to discuss
my Hillary piece in the Sunday WaPo outlook section
10 a.m. PT — online live chat at Washington Post to discuss same story
Wellstone action
I found the book extremely illuminating. The NYRoB review understood and explicated CtG very well.
Jane at 36 — I know just from my own participation in my local Democratic Women’s group that so many of the local state party leadership is still stuck in a 1970s mentality. There is SO much to change, simetimes it is overwhelming — that’s why Crashing the Gate was so helpful for me in terms of my own perspective on all of this.
Sadly, I think it comes down to someone winning “our” way before things really change. Does that have to be a White House win, though, or will a Senate race, a governor, or a high-profile House race get enough attention?
Checci got ripped off by Shrum. I watched this in horror. Look at how much of his own money Shrum had him spend to come in third out of three.
Well, at least it wasn’t fifth out of five!!!
On a similar note, Howard Dean was ill served by Joe Trippi. In the weeks before Iowa, there were many DFA comments on the lame media spots that were being aired.
Between this ineffective use of resources and the multitude of errors by the Kerry campaign, it is clear that Democrats need to scrap the vertical integration approach to managing national campaigns.
Any managing consultant that has a financial interest or emotional investment in media production is compromised, and unable to deliver unbiased recommendations to the candidate. As much as possible, media production, polling, and overall strategy should done by separate companies — that way, other contractors can be brought on board without power struggles at the top.
In some respects, I think the netroots are beginning to shape themselves into a kind of pre-primary, or (even better) a pre-caucus. Before a single vote is cast in NH or a single caucus meeting in IA, the conversations taking place across the internet are having various effects.
One effect of the netroots preprimary is fundraising – Evidence: start with Dean 2004, and go from there . . .
Effect #Two is shaping the agenda. Evidence: There appeared to be no desire to even try to stop the Alito appointment, until the “netroots activists” got things rolling. With Plamegate and the mess with Goss and his Gosslings still unrolling, the netroots’s ability to push the DC Dems will only get stronger between now and 2008.
Effect #Three is encouraging new candidates to step up and speak up. Evidence: Paul Hackett, Ned Lamont, etc.
Effect #Four will be getting a win or two out of these new candidates. If Lamont beats Liebermann and gets to the Senate, the effect on 2008 will be stunning. Feingold, Durbin, and others looking to convince their fence-sitting colleagues to stand up and be counted will be able to point to Lamont and say, “If the netroots have your back, the netroots HAVE your back.”
Unspoken conclusion to that sentence: “. . .and if they want your head, they’ll get that too.”
The late Senator Paul Simon started his public career as a progressive newspaper publisher. I think he would have loved what is happening every day here at FDL, at Josh Marshall’s TPM, and elsewhere across the internet.
For me, the big question going into the 2008 primaries is are the netroots big enough and influential enough to overcome Hillary’s name recognition and money and the fact that she has been all but anointed by big media? I agree with every criticism of her in Markos’ WaPo column. HRC is following a triangulation strategy as opposed to someone like Russ Feingold who, if he decides to run for President, will undoubtedly run as a principled progressive and will not pander for votes. I hope the netroots are up to the task of being an effective counterweight to the HRC machine, but I think it will be difficult. Last time there was not a Dem establishment candidate that had HRC’s advantages going into the primaries.
Swopa 41 — But Feingold did. This is in the book, regarding Steve Eichenbaum, who had served as Feingold’s media consultant for the 1992 “miracle campaign”:
As CtG notes, Eichenbaum is willing to work on flat fee. Not that they’re going to hire him, but still.
And what are the odds that candidates will get to do more of their campaign hiring locally — with people who actually know the terrain — rather than being micromanaged from DC? I know it’s not likely with Schumer and Emmanuel, but at some point, shouldn’t even the cocktail weenie crowd get tired of getting their asses kicked in the hinterlands?
Christy–Schumer has been very explicit. He has said if you don’t toe the line, employ our consultants, stay on our message, you won’t get DSCC money.
That’s the answer in the nutshell. Replace the DSCC’s money, and you take away their power to control campaign messages and strategies.
Markos and others in the blogosphere have been explicitly attacking this weakness by identifying candidates and freeing them from the obligation to turn to the Beltway for money.
We need to get other grass-roots group on board with this strategy. Fortunately, the DNC serves as a place where our message of contesting every races, using local and state strategies and messages.
Welcome, Markos, if you’re out there
Hey. Had kid issues. I’m here now.
Peterr — Effect #Three is encouraging new candidates to step up and speak up. Evidence: Paul Hackett, Ned Lamont, etc.
I think there has already been an effect. If it had not been for the huge skwawk that erupted when Hackett got pushed out, I feel strongly they would’ve done everything possible to give Ned Lamont the boot already. And there are indications Harry Reid already has given him a nudge.
The best thing about moving to NH was getting to see all the candidates, up close and personal– (except w, cause not everyone can, you know– though I am surely better off for never having seen him in person). It energized me, and I think creative interactivity via the web with the candidates could, I think change things for the rest of the country. Tom Harkin hosted some amazing town hall meetings with all the dems in 2004; only cspan carried them. People need to get to know the candidates instead of relying on the sound bytes on the networks and aside from what the talking heads spin.
I worked on the Kerry campaign here. It was an eyeopener for me. The staff locally were either fried or disinterested and paid little attention to the volunteers. I saw older people ignored when they asked questions cause they were not tech savvy. We lost those volunteers. It has to be a supportive effort all the way around, imho.
I wonder how long it will be before political consultants start marketing themselves to candidates by saying they “understand the Internet.” Or is that already happening? And do they?
Hey Markos. I hope Ari’s okay.
Jane, Markos and Jerome: There’s a contact at the DCCC who denies the DCCC has exercised control over congressional campaign staff this election cycle. Care to comment?
In some respects, I think the netroots are beginning to shape themselves into a kind of pre-primary, or (even better) a pre-caucus.
I like to say that the “netroots primary” will become as important as the “consultant primary” and other such pre-primaries that the press likes to use to gauge the status of the race. If it’s going to be a horse race, the media will look for as many gauges of where the candidates stand. And the netroots, with our straw polls (I’ll be building a pretty kick ass polling engine that all the top bloggers will be able to share), will be a ready-made story for the traditional media.
There’s a contact at the DCCC who denies the DCCC has exercised control over congressional campaign staff this election cycle. Care to comment?
Yeah, it’s a lie. They don’t just control staffing, but they’ve even told campaigns how to spend money. Literally saying, “buy direct mail here”, or “poll that issue there”. This happens even if the campaigns think those suggestions are stupid or a waste of money.
Jane @48: I agree that this has already happened. That’s what makes effect #4 such a tasty proposition. I indicated how Feingold and Co. might react to Lamont taking a seat in their midst, but I’d love to be a fly on the wall of a Senate Leadership meeting with Reid after a Lamont victory.
Great post — unfortunately, NONE OF THIS WILL EFFECT THE 2008 ELECTION….
Because the Rethuglicans will STEAL IT with the ELECTRONIC VOTING MACHINES just as they stole 2000, 2002 and 2004. Unless we wake up and get these damn electronic voting machines out of the counties, Dems will continue to lose “inexplicably” and contrary to all pre-race polls and exit polls.
http://www.blackboxvoting.org/
Hey Markos. I hope Ari’s okay.
Yeah, fine. Just REALLY attached to me today since I haven’t been around much the last couple of months. I was finally able to put him down for his nap.
Bush ‘wants to shut Guantanamo’
Isn’t this a departure from the party line? Then again with a friendly Supreme Court, maybe it’s no longer necessary to hold “enemy combatants” in Gitmo for fear that their detentions would be overturned by “liberal” U.S. courts.
tom – chicago
very few voters, repub or dem, even know that PNAC, the neocons, and WHIG exist or existed.
the repub leadership doesn’t want their sheep to know how they’re being slaughtered.
hammering on the mere existance of these organizations, along with the level of influence and the goals that they have clearly stated would be a great Dem strategy.
I feel strongly they would’ve done everything possible to give Ned Lamont the boot already. And there are indications Harry Reid already has given him a nudge.
There is no love for Lieberman at Reid HQ. They HAVE to support him since it’s in the Democratic caucus bylaws (stupid rule as it may be). But there has been no strong-arm effort to push Lamont out. And, so the speculation goes, Lieberman’s threats to go indy are his way of trying to force the issue with Reid and Co.
Markos:
We’ve been mulling over around here how to collaborate better with labor. If you have any thoughts or comments, they are welcome.
Neurophius 50 — that’s a good question:
I wonder how long it will be before political consultants start marketing themselves to candidates by saying they “understand the Internet.†Or is that already happening? And do they?
I know that various people have acted as consultants, including Stoller, Markos, Tim Tagaris, Bob Brigham, etc. The degree to which they are listened to, however, seems to vary. I haven’t had much luck successfully interfacing with any campaign except the Lamont campaign, and that’s because Ned’s campaign manager Tom Swan really understands the blogospheric landscape.
Thank You Jerome for showing up again this week and helping to kick off the new FDL Book Salon, it’s very appreciated.
How are the leaders of DSCC and DCCC selected (e.g. Schumer and Emanuel)? Does the entire Democratic caucus in each house vote on them, or are they appointed by the leadership?
kos 60 — I’d heard that too, that’s why I was surprised when I read in the WaPo last week that Reid had put in a call to ask Lamont to step out of the race. Was that just bs? I assume they confirmed it with SOMEBODY; then again…..
Jane at 65 — Maybe the WaPo confirmed it with Lieberman. *g*
WaPo link:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..01030.html
Kos @53, I don’t think “polls” on the nets will have much juice, because most of them are not worth the bandwidth they suck up/paper they’re printed on.
There’s a world of difference between a true poll with a random sample or respondents, scientifically chosen, and a “hey, everyone who wants to voice an opinion, click here” pseudo-poll. The latter is about as reliable as Lou Dobbs’ vote of the day. All they do is serve to reinforce the existing conventional wisdom of the “pollster.”
For more on all this, and a lot more on all things polling-related, check out Mark Blumenthal (aka Mystery Pollster) at http://www.mysterypollster.com.
Please, Kos, if you’re going to do polling, do it right!
jayackroyd – but how exactly does the DNC’s 50-state strategy fit into getting our messages into the mainstream media? (And by “our”, I mean us in the netroots)
Kos @53, I don’t think “polls†on the nets will have much juice, because most of them are not worth the bandwidth they suck up/paper they’re printed on.
Actually, that’s not true. A poll with 13,000 respondents *IS* worth something. It’s a good gauge of the sentiment of the Daily Kos community or whichever blog is promoting it, especially if it’s a short-duration poll which doesn’t give time for campaigns to spam them.
I can only hope that Reid made that call with a left nutmeg firmly in his cheek. Really, Joe needs to go indy or repug asap.
Jane at 67: From what I hear from both camps, it was a “wink, wink, nudge, nudge” sort of call. Neither side seemed to take it too seriously.
Another question: How do lobbyists fit into all this? How much are they contributing to campaigns? (Directly, or, if that’s against the rules–laterally) Who are “our” lobbyists and don’t they have something at stake here? Wouldn’t they want to do what they can do get progressives in power?
Forgive my naivete on this–apparently I need to read the book!
Kos 70 — it seems like a damn good gauge of who the netroots will give money to, and isn’t that what the consultants are primarily interested in?
Kos 72 — well that explains a lot. Thanks, the messaging coming across on that one was a bit schizophrenic.
At first when I heard the bit about Lieberman going independent I thought, too, it was about forcing the DSCC to push Lamont out. But when you published your poll last week, it seems like Lieberman’s chances really ARE best if he runs as an independent.
It was very heartening also to hear you say that Lamont is within striking distance of Lieberman. Still a dark horse, but definitely worthy of support.
Kos@70:
How does knowing that the poll of the Daily Kos community puts (for example) the Jane Hamsher candidacy at 40% (over HRC, Joe Biden, and others in the single digits) make this a “ready-made story for the traditional media”?
The jump you’re making from poll to story is a big one. It might matter to the Kos community, and have some important effects there, but I’m not sure how you get from that in-house use of such straw polls to stories in the traditional media.
Markos: why did you choose to write that op-ed? Can you elaborate? Is it your assessment that Hillary’s network is the epicenter of the old style of politics and that this network must accordingly be put on notice? If so, what approach should the netroots take to this? Should Hillary be targeted per se or simply the outmoded style of politics?
You would think that scoring such an incredible upset would’ve been a rocket trip to the stars for the campaign consultants. But not for Eichenbaum. . . . any efforts to hire him got blocked by the Democratic establishment in DC.
Crap. So what changes that dynamic?
Peterr: because the establishment media are obsessed with horse race stories, rather than substance. I expect that’s what kos would say.
Sorry, I have given up the crystal ball. Who knows? But I will say this: IF the Democrats don’t go with the netroots, it is time to start a new party.
You know what’s amazing about that Daily Kos poll, it’s that the numbers barely move once about 1,000 people have voted. Only one point one way or another for the candidates. It’s a Margin of Error calculation in action.
So yeah, I think those numbers are very much an accurate sentiment of the community (and once I can build the engine, of the aggregate whole and by individual sites). And it WILL have an impact on the race, one way or another. The consultants might be interested in those numbers, but I think more importantly the media will.
At the end of the day, blogs are better at building buzz than in raising money.
Jane @74:
If you want to measure money, then let’s measure money. Why use a poll to gauge contributions, when you’ve got (and used yourself) sites like ActBlue that track the actual gifts/pledges?
Frightening how money talks and how easily this is exposed. I, for one, am tired of the concepts of framing and the practice of marketing candidates. Naif, me. Should I just refuse to vote for any of these shils and join Vidal’s second party, those who don’t vote, since the other two so-called parties are acutally not much besides wings of the one party representing capital.
Sorry that I just got here so late today. There is something that’s been bothering me…
Why do high-profile Democratic leaders discourage progessive candidates from rocking the boat, like Harry Reid calling Ned Lamont and asking him to “back off” in his challenge to DINO Joe Lieberman’s seat. Apparently, Reid is happy to stick with a sure thing, regardless of the sure thing’s true political colors.
From Kos 4/29/06 – “…Party leaders were so rattled by the challenge that Senate Minority Leader Harry M. Reid (D-Nev.) called Lamont asking him to back off.”
http://www.dailykos.com/storyo…..211437/357
It amazes me sometimes that progressive Democrats manage to win anything at all.
BTW, Markos and Jerome, I hope to meet you and get my book signed at your CT appearance May 21st; the day after the state convention where we’ll (hopefully) force a primary against Holy Joe.
Hi Kos –
When you were in Denver at Drinking Liberally, I was pitching some ideas on Democratic Party message and overarching themes. Bill Winter (CO-6th) said that they were running on the “culture of corruption” message.
A word of advice for the DCCC and the rest of the DC powers that be — until we can tell American voters what Democrats stand for, we will be a minority party.
Bill Winter said Democrats must give people hope — amen to that. But whatever message we choose, it must be simple — salient — and direct.
HONEST Government, FAIR Taxes, REAL Security, — and OPPORTUNITY for Everyone.
I like the Honest, Fair, and Real construct — but taxes (and security for that matter) might be unproductive touchstones.
Three simple ideas that capture the essence of what we believe — that is the key to long term Democratic success.
From the Raw Story article on Pelosi linked up above:
Bob Adams — look upthread, Kos answered that already.
Camp Wellstone has paid dividends in Washington State. Darcy Burner, our candidate in WA-08, and David “Goldy” Goldstein of Horse’s Ass are both Wellstone grads.
Don’t underestimate the meaning of the dKos poll. It gets a high number of dedicated progressives voting. I look forward to enhancements from Markos.
What I would really like to see someday is audio or video available directly from progressives on my TV. IPTV (internet TV) may save us from the corporate press.
Swopa 85 — I’d like to know what “liberal papers” she’s talking about. Does such a thing exist?
Crap. So what changes that dynamic?
The more we pay attention to the consultants, and the more transparency we bring to the process, and the more people-powered financing fuels campaigns, the better our ability to influence who campaigns hire as their consultants.
Markos: why did you choose to write that op-ed?
The WaPo knows that Daily Kos is a hotbed of anti-Hillary sentiment, just like NRO is a hotbed of anti-McCain sentiment. So that’s why they had me and Byron York write about our respective frontrunners (York took on McCain).
My motivation was a signal to the Clintonistas who still think they’re living in 1992. I mean, Mark Penn has been talking shit about the netoots for the last couple of years. The DLC’s Al From is advising Hillary (which didn’t make the op-ed because quite frankly the only thing that’s keeping the DLC going at this point is people bashing it), and that quote from Carville was priceless: Americans don’t want “big ideas”. Jesus.
So yeah, I don’t think the people who gave us the current Democratic Party and all its woes should have another run at the top. Not unless they dramatically changes the way they do business in the next two years.
I think I saw an article a week or so ago about moving forward with an early western primary. Coming from the west I can tell you that I know of no one who wants to see Hillary win or run, and on the other hand she )and I should say the other front runner types) appear to have absolutely no foothold out here. I was wondering if this could be a trojan horse where an underfunded candidate could get a head start and win early and more cheaply than Iowa or New Hampshire, though it is a bit of a risk if the primary falls through.
Hi Markos,
I still think we’re overlooking opportunities to drive the messages home with the grassroots. As I’ve advocated before, we need to do follow through with media. When we take action, we need to get the results out as well. There has been some talk about writing press releases, and that’s more on the order of what I’m talking about. But a periodic newsletter that anyone can sign up for and/or pass along by printing or email is, IMO, what we need to be doing.
How many people do that with regular blog posts? I think it needs to be invited. We’ve been saying not to donate to DCCC, DSCC and send them a message “I am not your ATM” since they’re so disrespectful towards us — rather send to individual candidates. All the big political activist groups do it. Why can’t we?
Re #42, on the hazards of vertical campaigns and the need for local infrastructure:
I worked 2004 as a coordinator for BC Democrats Abroad. My job was to organize the American expats we dug up (and got registered), and take them down to our Swing State Next Door for workdays in the rural counties (read: Bellingham, WA).
Bellingham has a longstanding, well-staffed Dem office run by a bunch of ladies who really know their stuff. (One of them was Bill Gates’ elementary school principal.) These were folks who’d been through years of local to national campaigns. They had the precincts mapped, the sign locations nailed, the volunteers lined up, the phone banks ready. They knew their town, and were well-organized and determined to take it blue.
So imagine everyone’s surprise when, the week after Labor Day, the Kerry/Gregoire campaign announces the Grand Opening of their new campaign HQ, in an office about five blocks from the one that had been there for years. This place was staffed by a bunch of new college grads from out of state who couldn’t even find their way to the 7-11 without a map; and didn’t know the first thing about organzing volunteers.
Nonetheless, they spend the next six weeks siphoning off the local volunteers to re-do all the precinct data that the permanent office had spent the summer updating, and so on. (And, having walked a few precincts culled by each office, I can tell you that the newcomers had no idea where they were sending people.)
It was like nobody in Kerryville knew or cared that there was already a lively, strong Dem infrastructre on the ground in that county, just waiting for marching orders. I shudder to think how much $$$ got wasted on that useless second office.
I also have to wonder how many other places this wasteful, divisive, expensive division of labor happened. When Dean came to Seattle late in the campaign season and announced his 50-state strategy, I may have been the most relieved person in the crowd.
That experience — plus the open establishment hostility to Dean’s efforts to prevent a repeat of this — pretty much says it all about what’s wrong with the various Democratic powers-that-be. It’s not about us at all. It’s all about how glamorous they can make themselves look in the eyes of their fellow powerbrokers.
Kos 90 — so Markos, does the blogosphere have the ability to either a) finance a viable Hillary opponent at this point, or b) create enough buzz to make it happen outside the netroots?
DC beltway wisdom, which in my experience is almost always wrong about everything, says she has it locked up.
Nancy said: Part of this plan to bypass mainstream media included using blogs?
Then maybe she shouldn’t have been so hell-bent on getting behind the “reformers” efforts to regulate them out of existence.
I’m not a fan of Pelosi, and I look forward to the day we can rid ourselves of her and Hoyer at the top of the House leadership. Talking to various congresscritters, Pelosi is fairly safe. So Hoyer first. Then Pelosi.
Jane:
Peter Daou and I double teamed Pelosi on media strategy at the start of tha call, quite spontaneously. I don’t know if her actual quote was “liberal” media, but she was referring to WaPo and NYT, generically.
CTG is a great read — frustrating as it was to see the inside of the political sausage.
My exposure to politics, after Dean, was a local special election. We ran a local guy, who then hired a consultant. A former republican yet. And his ideas about what to run on were abysmal. We lost of course, but not one of our ‘old guard’ dem party even considered ‘netroots’ and ‘blogs’ to be important. To say one reads blogs, one might as well admit to reading porn sites, for all the credibility one gets by admitting to such an activity.
I do think that the dem leaning blogs like Kos and FDL are our think tanks. All we need is to put cable ready ‘panels’ on T.V. discussing what we discuss everyday.
And I read recently that many journalists are planning on attending Yearly Kos and that should be their first ‘up close and personal ‘exposure’ to our sort of ‘hippy.’ :-)
Heh, Jane (@ 89), I was thinking the same thing. Perhaps she said “so-called liberal papers” and Raw Story didn’t relay the full phrase.
ck @ 84 — there’s an even shorter answer that conveys everything you’re talking about.
Kos 94 — well I’m down with that. Hoyer is the Lieberman of the House.
And yes, it does seem odd that Democrats who know full well that the blogs are one of the only opportunities they have to get their message out just do not seem to be able to get in synch with them, and are supporting legislation that could edge them out of the conversation.
Sometimes you have to wonder if there IS a conscious effort to stay the minority party.
Pach: good question, I was also thinking about agriculture re-connecting. The “times” we live in seem to give us some good opportunities to let common topics re-knit the party. I was energized with the post over at MyDD encouraging readers to familiarize themselves with specific topics to connect with people who may be pissed off and unconnected. So for me that means getting a table at the Farmers’ Market every Saturday just to connect with people … and get people to connect.
do we know who Nancy Pelosi talked to on her call to bloggers yesterday? (37)
Pach 95 — Pelosi is buying that crap about the NYT and WaPo being “liberal” media? What’s wrong with her?
Jane at 93: The netroots doesn’t need to help build an anti-Hillary on its own. It is shocking how little support she gets from the party’s activist base, in the netroots, in the grassroots, or in labor.
For someone who is annointed the nominee, she barely breaks 30 percent in the early polls, and that number will fall as people realize that there are alternatives.
I don’t see her numbers rising. I mean, who doesn’t know who she is? She’s maxed out, and no amount of money can change that. The big question is whether the field remains so fragmented during the early primaries that she can win with 25 percent of the vote (and as the only woman that will allow her to stand out). If the field thins out and a clear “anti-Hillary” emerges, then she’s in real trouble.
Jane at 89 — I think she actually said something like “liberal papers” such as the Washington Post and the NYTimes, but her tone was a fairly ironic one when she said it. I was on that call, and I was pretty certain of her meaning — you know, as opposed to the outright conservative ones like the Chicago Trib or the WATimes.
what do I think ???
anybody BUT Hillary
does that clear things up ???
I think the netroots will get it’s first real test drive in 2008
we’re no longer a few thousand pissed off people, now we’re millions of pissed off people
george bush turned out to be a “uniter” after, all. whodathunkit ???
and hey KOS, what ever happened to fishyshark ???
Pacha- go visit a labor union and talk to em.
Swopa: as a participant in the call, I can’t say Pelosi showed any awareness of the right wing biases in WaPo/NYT editorial policy. My sense is she lacks a stragetic understanding of the media landscape vis-a-vis the progressive movement, which I suppose indirectly prompted me to write my Late Nite post last night, linked by Jane in the main post up top.
“Bob Adams — look upthread, Kos answered that already.”
Aargh! That’s what happens when you just walk in the door and post something, without reading the comments…oh, well…
OK, lemme try this…wouldn’t it be great if political consultants worked on contingency? Like, you pay 80% up front, and then the balance if you win the election? Barring that, how about some kind of bonus commission if they win?
Maybe we need to give these guys some kind of incentive to be intersted in the outcome.
There has been some talk about writing press releases, and that’s more on the order of what I’m talking about.
Nah. I say ignore them and do our thing. The traditional media won’t want to be left out and will come and cover a lot of this.
We’re building our alternative media machine. We have more liberal radio on the way, a Spanish-language liberal network, a liberal counterpart to Fox News, and so on. We need the machinery to combat the conservative alternate reality. When we have parity in the media front, the traditional media won’t be so easily pushed to the right.
yo, jane at 101:
the WaPo admitted they were a liberal rag when they announced their intention of hiring a “CONSERVATIVE” blogger to offset Fromkin
too bad the WaPo management wasn’t able to understand the admission inherent in that statement
stupid fookers
Kos 102 — wasn’t there some Joe Conason article that said Hillary’s campaign is riding on her huge support among African Americans? And that’s what’s keeping her from running toward the middle more agressively than she already is.
When we have parity in the media front, the traditional media won’t be so easily pushed to the right.
Markos, is there an over/under on when any of these elements will go live?
sorry folks-late to the party.Markos,Jerome,thanks for a great book!now i’ll be quiet and let the grownups talk,try to learn something
and hey KOS, what ever happened to fishyshark ???
My kid was born. If a #2 ever comes around, I’ll have to fire the site back up.
Jane at 110: African Americans are about Hillary’s only natural constituency at this point within the party’s base. And they’re not even HER constituency, they really belong to her husband. She’s lucky, however, that none of the other serious Democratic candidates have any real experience dealing with that community.
As for Latinos, Richardson should have the early line on that crowd. Richardson gets a lot of attention on Spanish-language media.
Kos 108 — We’re building our alternative media machine.
One of the most daunting things in the whole book was this quote from Rob Stein:
The reality of THAT hit me like a brickbat. I hope you are right about the alternative media development, it won’t happen overnight.
Kos @ 90: … that quote from Carville was priceless: Americans don’t want “big ideasâ€. Jesus.
As much as I agree with everything else you say in that editorial, I think Carville’s point — in its narrowest sense — is accurate.
It’s not a valid point if it means that Hillary should keep her head down and advocate the kind of small-bore idiocy you gave examples of.
But at the same time, let’s take Katrina as a metaphor to what Republicans have done to this country. We don’t want to go to someone whose house has been flooded out and talk about the glorious $10 million mansion we’re going to build in its place.
If I’m in charge of Democratic messaging, I want throwing out the Republicans to be the easiest, most no-brainer decision Americans have ever made. I don’t want to make it harder by insisting that voters buy into some grandiose scheme for remaking the country.
The Bushites are driving the country over a cliff. If Democrats can build a better car, fine — but tell me later. Right now, my core issue is getting someone to take their damn foot off the accelerator.
Kos and Jerome,
In the event I never have the honor and pleasure of meeting you both – allow me to extend a virtual hand shake and thank you for your work in CTG – absolutely nothing was more needed to help right our course, and you’ve done it so beautifully – folks like Jane, Christy, and Pach get it, but less experienced,less informed folks like myself get it’s incisive, practical message right away as well – no mean feat fellas. Thanks
ok, back to the salon -
Pacha # 27 -
“many are awakening to the power of the roots but still don’t know how to deal with us.”
I don’t have an answer, but boy is it a good question – interestingly, as I intially pondered it, I started with “Them”, – drop on by, have a staffer drop on by, etc., but what have ‘We’ done ? I’m not dismissing things like our Netroots projects here at FDL – what outside of those type things have ‘We’ done ?
Have been dragging our long time Party Chair and Co Chair to blogs kicking and screaming for the last 3 months – (Christy’s comment upthread about the 70’s mentality is apparently a party wide phenomena)
One question;are there any more Dem consultants besides Shrum we shoud know about? It seems to me it would be somewhat shocking to ‘old school’Dems that we in the roots even know or care about such things.
Swopa 115 — As much as I agree with everything else you say in that editorial, I think Carville’s point — in its narrowest sense — is accurate.
It’s not a valid point if it means that Hillary should keep her head down and advocate the kind of small-bore idiocy you gave examples of.
That does seem to be how it’s being played out, however.
I hope you are right about the alternative media development, it won’t happen overnight.
High bandwidth internet can deliver progressive media to the masses. I believe that the cable networks and companies like TiVo are looking for ways to make internet content available through the TV. And I think there are some countries in the world already ahead of us in that respect.
I want my FDL TV. :)
Sometimes you have to wonder if there IS a conscious effort to stay the minority party.
I don’t think that’s true — the Great Democratic Majority was created by the political brilliance of FDR, and cemented by the kick ass attitudes of Louis Howe, Harold Ickes, Harry Hopkins, and all the rest. It also depended on not offending the Solid South Dixiecrats by taking up Civil Rights; in 1938, FDR backed a New Deal slate of Liberal candidates against the reactionary Southerners — all of them lost. Harry Truman, Eisenhower, and Johnson did the right thing on civil rights, but at the cost of the Democratic Congressional Majority.
Likewise, the importance of Ronald Reagan’s Hollywood swagger as an antidote to Carter’s malaise cannot be underestimated. Coming on the heels of Watergate and the end of the Vietnam debacle, Carter was just what the Democratic Party did NOT need. Reagan’s victory was the reaction of a country looking to regain it’s swagger and lose it’s self doubt; without the Carter/Reagan dynamic, the GOP ascendancy would have been far less certain.
It is zeitgeist leadership that captures lightning in a bottle that transforms political parties — the rest of the political class are just along for the ride.
With regard to the idea that the professive movement needs to develop an infrastructure approaching that which has been put in place by Scaife, etc. over the last 20+ years –
I have come to the conclusion that a progressive resurgence requires the institutionalized support of real muckraking journalism.
Christy, Jane and Markos do a brilliant job of analysing the information that has been dug up by reporters for the major newspapers, Knight Ridder, etc.
But as we have seen, all of these outlets are susceptible to corporate pressures of all kinds. Consider the fact that the NY Times took over a year to publish the NSA story. And who knows how many other stories are being surpressed by administration pressures on the corporate entities that own most press outlets these days.
What needs to be done is for us to pour our money and resources into genuine, independent, muckraking investigative journalism. The best example I can think of this is TPM Muckraker, although there may be others.
If we are able to develop real independent investigative journalism, then the blogosphere will become truly self-sufficient, in that we will no longer rely to any extent on the traditional media as our primary sources.
This would represent a revolution in the power of the internet and the progessive movement to uncover corruption in our government, and to shed light on the issues that traditional media has been loathe to investigate, or which, when investigated, have been surpressed by corporate interests.
One last note – the conservative movement has already gotten a head start on the investigative journalism front, as can be seen by all the books on Whitewater, Paula Jones, Ron Brown conspiracy theories, etc. In most cases, there hasn’t been much real corruption to uncover.
We, the progressives, need to return fire with support and structure for sustained, in-depth investigation of government corruption and the Republican power structure. It would be like when FDL turned over the rock that Babs Comstock had been hiding under and watched all the bugs scurrying away, except on a much much larger scale.
What about the election in 2006, specifically Clinton’s Democratic primary challenge from Jonathan Tasini? His blog today has a challenge up about some of her funding coming from questionable sources (see top post on http://tasinifornewyork.com/ )… I don’t know enough about the specifics on that, but what if Lamont AND Tasini win? Might change the 2008 picture even more, non?
Seems like women and other voting groups in NY (those who want us to follow the Murtha plan to end the war, free speech advocates) are ready for an alternative to Sen. Clinton. Do you think they have a chance? (Seems like the campaign fits some of what CTG is calling for…)
Jane at 114 — that hit me hard as well. Because that’s exactly what everyone here gets. Our statewide talk radio is all wingnuts, alla time. Almost all the newspapers are wingnut papers. It’s painful.
I am giving a talk on the book at the
Boulder County Democratic Party monthly meeting wednesday (bouldercountydems.org) I am using powerpoint and would appreciate comments
there is a copy at http://deeptrunk.com/gatecrashing.ppt
send comments to msobel@marcsobel.com
So can someone put together a “consultant scorecard” for the fall elections that will put information about these self-serving failures at our fingertips? (Or does it already exist?)
I’m thinking something that’ll show their track record, for example, how much they were paid in various categories (flat-fee, media buy percentages, incentives for success), how much was by corrupt channels like percentage of media buys when they were also the person deciding how much to spend on media vs. other forms of outreach. And of course, their won/lost record. (If you wanted to get fancy, how much good they did for their candidates poll numbers whether they ultimately won or lost, since we don’t want to slam people just because they’re willing to work for longshot candidates.)
I think there are a lot of candidates who don’t want to take on staffers and consultants dictated from above, and it could be helpful to provide them with tools to fight back and say “I’ll only take someone who has a record of success.”
Kos #108 – who is supplying the money for the liberal answer to Fox News?
Jane @ 118 — I know, and it rips my guts out. That’s why the drum I keep beating is for Democrats to make being sane and reality-based their “big idea,” rather than running away from big ideas entirely.
Christy ran that picture of Jimmy Stewart the other day — the challenge for Democrats in terms of branding/message is convincing the folks who aren’t voting for us now that we’re Jimmy Stewart, as opposed to those Elmer Gantries of the GOP.
Redshift 125 — So can someone put together a “consultant scorecard†for the fall elections that will put information about these self-serving failures at our fingertips? (Or does it already exist?)
That is a brilliant idea.
Excuse my naivete, but, in order to succesfully throw out the establishment consultants like Shrum et al, we have to have a ready stable of proven winners who can step in. People who won’t be hampered by a huge learning curve. Who – and where – are they?
Can’t we just build on or pile on the Constitutional scholars that are already on the bandwagon? We need to find a way to get the voices that are screaming heard. I mean, it is all out there on the record. I’m quite sure some would offer their services for free (or travel expenses). They need a venue– I believe it starts with the nets and ends with talking to one another.
shoephone — see 45 above.
cbl Have been dragging our long time Party Chair and Co Chair to blogs kicking and screaming for the last 3 months -…(
Exactly what I experienced in my local special election. In a room with 10 people, one candidate and one consultant, and only 3 had ever read a blog or knew what one was, and none of them, NONE, read blogs every day or even regularly.
The 50-state strategy has yet to leave the big cities and trickle down to small town USA. Would it seem that the Lamont election might take the word of our existence out into the greater dem circles?
I still think that YearKos will be an eye opener if the news covers it at all. Is cspan going to be thre? hope, hope, hope
Swopa 127 –
Democrats offer FAIR_____ HONEST_____ and REAL_____
Democrats ARE Fair, Honest, and Real –
Fill in the blanks with whatever . . .
Swopa at 127 — If we could find a candidate that Dems would put out front, who could carry that sort of Jimmy Stewart messaging, I’d dance a daily Snoopy dance.
Sent another batch of (photocopied) book jacket of CTG. Told them my $$ were being donated through the netroots this year. If Hill and dscc etc got 10,000 of those, they would take notice.. They would have too. So orange.
Kos #108 – who is supplying the money for the liberal answer to Fox News?
Rich liberals. It’s an effort organized out of Silicon Valley venture capitalists and run by an ex-Gore staffer.
Swopa and Christy-could Lamont be our man?
ReneND — I agree, every congressperson needs to read it.
Jane – Eichenbaum sounds great (and I’m firmly in the Feingold camp), but I’m concerned that in order to match the Repug consulting machine we need a whole crew of proven winners on our side. And we don’t have a lot of time before the Pres. campaign season begins in earnest. I’ll say this much: if Lamont can pull out a win against Leiberman, his people ought to be front and center with this effort!
ck @ 135 … now you’re talkin’!
ck at 133:
The Dem values that have gained wide currency are: Fairness, Opportunity, and Investment (in our country and people)
I don’t know where they came from, but it’s the first time I’ve heard any sort of consensus over what we’re about, so I’m riding those three.
xyz #121:
I think you’ve got a good point. One of the things we’ve been sorely lacking for the past five years is a media that’s not afraid to go after the stories they know are there, and that isn’t already intimidated by the “liberal media” myth.
One point, though:
One last note – the conservative movement has already gotten a head start on the investigative journalism front, as can be seen by all the books on Whitewater, Paula Jones, Ron Brown conspiracy theories, etc. In most cases, there hasn’t been much real corruption to uncover.
Yeah, it’s a lot easier to do “investigative journalism” when you’ve already decided the answers and can skip the hard work of actually investigating. We definitely don’t want to replicate that.
Dems can win in 08 on:
Making Social Security Secure
Reducing energy usage
Reducing debt
Universal Health Care
If Iraq is still an issue- they will say that it’s been criminally mishandled and that they would kick out all the idiots who made the mistakes.
That’s about it. There is a complication if they happen to take back congress in 06. At that point- they become partly accountable for results.
It seems to me that if we can help Lamont win,we prove the power of the blogs and netroots,shake the establishment(DSCC)and shed Leiberman.A grand slam,and in the primaries.But we have to focus.
Kos and Jerome correctly point out in CTG that the GOP has been “working the refs” for 30 years with new media outlets, talk radio, think tanks, young republicans, local organization, etc. While we have a decent shot at the House this year we are at a terrible disadvantage in terms of branding, media access, and GOTV. The netroots are helping a bunch in terms of responding to MSM spin and digging up “unfortunate truths”, however, how much effect has it actually had at the local level? If we can’t get out the vote, we’ve got bubkus.
shoephone: It seems to me that Democrats have won elections, so there have to be winning strategists out there. They’ve just hit a “glass ceiling” because the highly-paid losers aren’t being fired for their failures. I don’t know who they are, but I don’t think we need to create them from scratch.
Kos 133 — thanks for repeating those:
Fairness, Opportunity, and Investment (in our country and people)
I’ve heard you say it before but I never wrote it down. A good message.
shoephone but how exactly does the DNC’s 50-state strategy fit into getting our messages into the mainstream media? (And by “ourâ€, I mean us in the netroots)
By being the decisive element in funding a campaign. As Jane says above, Feingold has already blazed this trail. It just has to happen a couple more times, and then the netroots are players.
Lamont would be a huge win. It would be a shot across every incumbent Dem bow, and would give he lie to the beltway consultants’ belittling of, ahem, constituents and voters as beneath recognition. It’s worth noting, just by the way, that republicans don’t do that. They honor their base so much that they’re now in some trouble because the base is starting to notice that they’ve been all talk, no action.
Dems don’t have this constraint. Their positions are the popular ones. They don’t have label their bills with names that are 180 degrees opposite of their intent (cf McCurry, Mike, “net neutrality”)
Everyone knows who the dems are and who the goopers are. Goopers are “Eat if you have any money” Dems are “everybody eats- we don’t let anyone starve around here.”
Kos and Jerome-will you both be in Raleigh on the 12th?
Looking forward to your visit.
Redshift -
Thanks. The fact that we still rely on traditional media to break most of the stories about corruption, extra-constitional activities of this administration is a real sore point for me.
We need to circumvent the traditional media gatekeepers of investigative journalism.
Otherwise we, the progressive blogosphere, remain, in a real sense, parasitical on mainstream media.
TPM Muckraker is a start, but so much more needs to be done. And can be done.
And once we start to break original stories on a daily basis, it will be a whole new ballgame. The traditional media will be compelled, by market forces, to cover at least some of what we dig up.
Kevin J at 147 — that’s been a huge area of success for people who do local blogs or who have organized local letter-writing or call-in activity. Because they get less reader/listener feedback, any pushback gets better and more immediate attention. And it’s part of the rationale for our Roots work here at FDL.
There’s no doubt that a Lamont victory would kickstart us into greater victories. If I don’t go plant stuff in the garden right now the fickle Seattle sun is going to go away. Thank you Jane, Christy, Jerome, Markos, Jay, Pach and everybody else for the energy creativity and intelligence displayed here!
Kos: “We need the machinery to combat the conservative alternate reality. When we have parity in the media front, the traditional media won’t be so easily pushed to the right.”
Pardon me if I seem foolish, but my little local newspaper only gets letters to the editor from me and a few others–my neighbors are exactly the people we need to reach and it’s difficult (rural Texas). These little newspapers are hungry for content and they NEVER get anything from us besides the occasional LTE. What do they know about the blogs? Only what they hear from the right wing. Will they visit them? Not unless they have a better idea about who we are and what we do. There are plenty with net access that only do email. So until that other media is available (will it be available to all?) I have to disagree with your assessment.
Ok. Since this is your ballpark, I’ll STFU now.
kos 143 –
The Dem values that have gained wide currency are: Fairness, Opportunity, and Investment
The message is correct, but there are TOO MANY Syllables in those words.
When it comes to Democratic speechifyin’, Thoreau said it best: “Simplify, Simplify.”
The soundbite that says the most, while saying the least — is best.
xyz: Well, Robert Greenwald raised more than $300,000 online in a week for his new film about Iraq War profiteering. I think there’s a great hunger for this, and there’s support out there for the next TPMMuckraker, if someone has the skills and energy to actually do it.
Working the refs needs to be done more seriously now. Bitch to the media constantly about them letting Bush lie without being called on it.
There seems to be great angst in the media now about the mean democratic bloggers attacking them. The answer is not being nicer, but being just as mean as the republicans. Blast faxes when they peddle GOP agitprop should be regular. They will EXPECT bombardment when they print bullshit.
Something that concerns me is how the democrats, and their consultants, will react to this year’s and 2008’s October Surprises TM – GOP). I can see a major terrorist attack in late summer-early fall of 2008. Will the democratic consultants suggest rallying around whoever or will they point out that the terrorists (whoever they are) were trying to manipulate the election and keep the incompetent republicans, who have done everything they’ve wanted, in office.
Some additional thoughts on Fair, Honest, and Real –
These are words that have a positive emotional charge, while at the same time, have a potent anger point reaction to GOP corruption and incompetence.
The Frank Luntz playbook is built around language that evokes negative emotions towards Government and Democrats. There are several lessons to be taken from this: 1) Gut level emotional response is more powerful than intellectual analysis; 2) Anger is a powerful political motivator (angry bloggers, maybe?) and 3) the Right Wing is primarily motivated by anger.
When the Democrats can find language that express our core belief in Hope, Opportunity, and the Common Good — and present it in a way that gets people pissed off at being snookered by GOP liars, crooks, and hypocrites — THEN we will regain our Majority Party status.
So can someone put together a “consultant scorecard†for the fall elections that will put information about these self-serving failures at our fingertips?
Whoever puts it together don’t forget this guy:
“The bloggers and online donors represent an important resource for the party, but they are not representative of the majority you need to win elections,” said Steve Elmendorf, a Democratic lobbyist who advised Kerry’s 2004 presidential campaign. “The trick will be to harness their energy and their money without looking like you are a captive of the activist left.”
Any candidate or consultant(that means you Elmendorf) that wishes to treat the netroots as an ATM without netroot-friendly policies is in for a rude awakening.
I have two ideas I’d like to share:
1) If we’re going to use consultants, as noted by Markos & Jerome, they should be paid a flat fee. In addition, I’d recommend a bonus. The candidate, yu get another 100k, 1 mil, whatever is large enough to motivate the consultants to *win*.
2)Just wanted to note that I heard Dean using a phrase I quite liked, one that we can make a de facto slogan just by using it more often, that could differtiate us from the Dems past losses, and one that may be far more effective than ‘We can do better’:
The Democrats are ready to lead again.
Redshift — They’ve just hit a “glass ceiling†because the highly-paid losers aren’t being fired for their failures. I don’t know who they are, but I don’t think we need to create them from scratch.
It is certainly worth creating some awareness on the topic. If anyone know someone who writes about the topic well, let me know.
Re Hillary & Primary-
She will win handily-even in rural NY Republican territory they recognize power & the power of rank
Just FYI, in my corporate consulting work, I charge on a flat per-project basis, plus expenses (hotel, airfare, etc.). That’s standard in my market. No reason for political consultants to differ, as CtG points out.
Jane 35
“how is the thinking of the Democrats, and also of the interest groups, stuck in the 70s? They seem to be operating under a model that developed when the Democrats were the majority party, and hasn’t adapted to the new political landscape.”
Just catching up this evening and fascinated by the exchanges with Markos and Jerome, but the above statement from Jane really cuts to the heart of the questions I always have about the Democrats’ utter inability to appear to do much other than to hand their asses to the Republicans and say “Hey there, Jim-Bob… give this thing a good kickin’ for me, would ya?”
Jane, you make a good point… it really does seem like the Democrats have been unable to change their approach from what it was when they were still the majority party. They always feel to me like they’re sitting there all hunched over and guarding a pile of marbles that they USED to have, but which has long since been taken from them… but they’re still guarding those suckers nonetheless!
Oh, and just so I’m not misunderstood, I’m not looking for political work.
This thread is interesting. Thanks for your focus, hard work and determination FDL. Kos and Jerome. There is hope!!
Sorry that I am late coming to this discussion. How is the power of the Netroots measured? I cannot imagine that any means of measuring it would not severely underestimate the power.
I have only recently started donating in any fashion that could be associated with the Netroots. It is only recently that I’ve become aware of better avenues for 2006 than DCCC, DSCC, and Boxer’s Pack for Change. I am sure that I am not the only FDL devotee that is in a similar place on this journey.
I wonder if placing an emphasis on building awareness for some of these venues that would increase the perceived power of the Netroots would pay off in influence for the 2006 elections.
Clem,
Nice image,thats gonna stick whith me.
Kos and Jerome-will you both be in Raleigh on the 12th?
I’ll be there. I think Jerome is scheduled to join me there as well. But I think I’m doing Atlanta, Tallahasee, and Louisville all by my lonesone self next week.
colleenmiltarymom — absolutely. Thanks so much to Markos and Jerome for stopping by here today.
Kos or Jerome – what has surprised you most during your travels to the hinterlands — questions from the dems, or questions from the journalists?
I would be interested in knowing how many progressive bloggers and commenters actually go to the polls and vote. Has any liberal blog that you know of asked their readers this question? how many of the voters for Kos’ straw poll have voted in the past for actual candidates? And plan to again? GOTV seems to be a huge issue going into 2006 and 2008.
Democrats are wimps and either they don’t have a message, don’t have one that resonates, or step all over it if they do. Take Diane Feinstein’s idiotic performance today on the Hayden nomination. A no brainer, right? The guy doesn’t know the 4th Amendment from his ass but he still is willing to crap all over it. Does Feinstein raise a fist in righteous indignation? Say, we draw the line here in defense of the Constitution and the rights of ordinary Americans. Well, not exactly. It’s the Republican who is sceptical about the nomination and has reasoned concerns. Diane is left looking like the dope she is. No message, no principles, no nothing. And we are going to win how exactly again? Because this scenario has played and replayed itself over and over again. If Democrats are going to lead, they need to find a few leaders first. And if the Hillarys and Feinsteins are not going to carry the banner, then let us showcase the Feingolds, Clarks, and Durbins, people who can articulate a principled view but actually leave their listeners with the impression that they believe it.
from today’s WaPo Democratic House story : http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..01336.html
Hoyer added that he would like to see investigations into the extent of domestic wiretapping by the National Security Agency, and the billions of dollars wasted by contractors in Iraq and Afghanistan.Feinstein is such a sham. We need to pick one of her two unknown demo challengers in the June 6 primary to support.
Either:
Martin Luther Church – Retired Program manager
or
Colleen Fernald – Mother/Artist/Entrepeneur
Neither looks like a potential Ned Lamont, but need to pick one so we don’t divide the anti-Dianne vote. She’s truly the epitomy of the spineless democrat.
I’d love to know how many donations of $100 or less Hillary has received, and what percentage of her total $$ these add up to.
I can’t fucking believe that Feinstein could do anything as mind-carvingly stupid as giving her implicit support to a guy like Hayden.
Then, of course, I think back to past events and realize “Oh yeah, of COURSE she’s going to show her belly like that… doesn’t she almost always?”
Fairness, Opportunity, and Investment
hmmm
Liberty is (y)our Future
WARNING: long comment. You’ve been warned.
After thinking more about my personal response to CtG, I’d have to say it was validation. That’s one of the most important and profound events one can have in their struggle as a human being: validation that one has struggled, and that one is not alone. This book recognized in black-and-white, in some of the most simplistic terms, what it was to try and win as a first-time Democratic activist. The barriers put up by one’s own party, the bumbling and incompetence at getting out the vote, let alone getting out the message, all of it mind-numbing and brutalizing. And there it is, sandwiched in a ridiculously small number of pages, all that I ran into headlong, all the reasons why those barriers existed and persist.
One of the biggest challenges we face is exemplified by union labor: an inadequacy of raw business smarts applied to politics. I thought at first when I ran into the stumbling blocks put up by union members that perhaps it was that union folks don’t have Business degrees. It was MUCH bigger; most of the activists I ran into didn’t have them either, nor did the candidates. We were ALL OF US bringing knives to gunfights when competing against people who eat-breathe-live business every day and make it bend to their will.
That’s why consultants FUCK us over. Yes, no asterisk there, no niceties, gloves off and the manicure ruined. Consultants FUCK the party because we don’t compile a body of business savvy to negotiate effective contracts…and they get away with it, campaign after campaign, because that lack of aggregated business savvy means we don’t have the sense to demand accountability or a fucking refund. We can blame the consultants; they are definitely part of the problem. But WE are the bigger problem; we have to acquire business acumen and NOW.
Those of you who do have business backgrounds, either by education or by profession, would NEVER let a vendor do you you what these consultants do to us. We have to ditch the namby-pamby higher-values crap and get real about this; THEY are playing for keeps on the other side, just like THEY do in business, and we will NOT win if we don’t take this just as seriously. We need to make every damned dime SCREAM for mercy, make anyone getting a sou or a centime from us perform. We do it every day. We just need to transcend the veil between business and politics.
As for the Repug breeding farms: yup, we have a problem. We do not set up institutions to breed and mature into fighting adulthood a bank of future Democratic leaders. This must change. But so must the entire bigger picture; there really must be a “vast left wing conspiracy”, one that values and rewards folks who have good business sense as well as good activist chops and turns them into tomorrow’s Senators and Cabinet and President. Those consultants were FUCKING us more than one way, too; who owned those media outlets through which they bought Democratic ads? It wasn’t any so-called liberal media. These folks were being rewarded by a conservative-owned media. Chew on that a while.
The “vast right wing conspiracy” (VRWC) is real; it’s more than nebulous, too. During the heady early days of the Gannon-Guckert investigation, it became quite clear there was more than a casual relationship between some of the players. Heritage Foundation, for example, was the progenitor of TownHall.com; TownHall.com has been the unifying link between every one of the known payola recipients; TownHall.com also counts among its leadership Brent Bozell II, who also leads Parents Television Council. There was no one else at the time of the Jackson Boob Attack who could have mustered 90,000 angry phone-calling constituents; I don’t think the left can do that even now, but Brent could. Brent also runs MediaResearch, the parent of CNSNews.com; CNSNews.com provides feed for Men’s Life Daily, also bought feed from GOPUSA and TalonNews.com.
And you know what TalonNews.com got you: gay hookers in the White House gaggle.
Here’s the clincher: every single one of the entities I mentioned so far is related by a series of servers, and by those servers related to CRC4PR.com (Creative Response Concepts), the folks who brought you Swift Boat Vets.
It’s all of one piece. My first reaction when I connected all their IP addresses was, “WHY THE HELL AREN’T WE DOING THIS??”
And I’m still waiting to find an answer. Anybody? Anybody?
[p.s. the only sound answer for not doing so is that this part of the VRWC is a RICO outfit.]
New threqad–Feingold on Hayden
Thread
Rayne — excellent rant.
I got here late and enjoyed the transcript. I’ve been working with some local candidates here in Maryland, and I have heard a few of the tidbits that there consultants have told them:
(this is primary advice)
1. Only knock on the doors of people who voted in previous primaries.
2. Don’t bother trying to register new voters or reaching out hard into the immigrant community.
I’m no campaign genius, and I can understand that every campaign has limited resources and time that need to be spent wisely, but I get a strong vibe that following this kind of conventional wisdom is a recipe for never getting new blood into the system, both among candidates and voters. Obviously, trying to register a lot of new voters is time-consuming, but there are lots of immigrants and less-involved people who are already registered but don’t vote in the primaries, which is where the real action is in quite a lot of places. Why not knock on their doors too, and invite them into the tent? Lots of people like to be treated like a neighbor, I’ve found.
peace,
jim
The Left does have a fair number of organizations…Most issue groups have training arms as well…but they are a different beast than what the right has built. Iara Peng, one of the progressive movement’s top young stars and head of Young People for the American Way, looks at these progressive groups and finds them significantly different from the right’s leadership organizations. “Are they collaborative? No. Are they long term? No. Do they work with an individual over the course of their careers? No,” said Peng. “Can anybody find out about these institutes and just take a course? Get trained? Not really. At least not without lots of money — usually conferences/ trainings cost so much you only get older white people attending.”
Amen. I’m heading off to the Campaign for America’s Future Conference in June. The Conference fee itself is on the steep side. The hotel rates in DC are outrageous. I went last year, had a lot of fun, and came back with my batteries charged. But dropping over $1,000.00 for three days is a lot of money, even for an old white guy like me. Might one suggest holding the next one of these things AWAY from the corridors of power, and let the famous, semi-famous, not-so-famous, and would-be famous travel to see the rest of us for a change?
ck at 135,
Fill in the blanks with whatever . . .
Democrats offer FAIR _____, HONEST LEADERSHIP, and REAL SECURITY
I struggle with the first one – taxes? trade? deals? (Struggling with a word that clearly demonstrates Democrats will shorten the gap between the “Haves” and the “HaveNots”.)
FWIW, I heard CA Senator Barbara Boxer on the “Stephanie Miller Show” tell the audience that the Dems are going to use “Had Enough(tm)?” for now, at least until the 2006 elections.
TeddySF, I hope you have a good patent lawyer!
Wow Rayne you Goddess, that is one hell of a great rant. You are so correct and I hope you post a link to your #182 in the new thread.
Anyone reading this in Ontario, I have an extra unused copy of the Professive Partners edition “Crashing the Gates” that is available to you at cost. You can contact me through my website or gordbrown48@rogers.com.
Thank you
Rayne, (if you’re still around) I love it when you rant! Great post. I agree with it completely. I really can’t explain why the left won’t use the only good logic of the right. We have a much better product to sell, and in a competetive market, which this is, we’d win hands down. Business acumen is here, it’s just disdained. Doesn’t make sense to me. Unless we’re afraid of appearing more “corporate” or “establishment” as a holdover from the ’60’s? Hmmm…
Thank you Jane, Shez, Audrey…this really belongs here in this thread, Shez, the Feingold-Hayden material has a life of its own and deserves eyeballs and a thorough chewing.
I want my own VLWC — can’t believe that’s so hard to get!
Late, as usual. This is a valuable discussion. May I give my experience as a first time donor to Democratic candidates? I’ve been voting for Presidents since 1964. In 2004, I donated, over the internet to 3 candidates: Kusinich, Edwards and Clark. (Quite a spread, eh?) I gave more than once, to each, until I had given nearly $1000, total. The video casts at each candidate’s web site provided insight into their thinking. C-span was extremely valuable and allowed me to see the cadidates in many different venues and interview situations, as well as the NH Primary.
I don’t have a TV any more. I threw it out 10 years ago because I hated it so much. The internet is the portal to everything I learn about folks running for office. You had better believe that I will NOT support any candidate who is a political whore pocketing money from BIG anything. The problem is, that TV is the primary means by which most people get information to make their decisions, and unless someone like Soros and other altruistic, progressive people buy a network to provide the public a forum for open discussion, we will struggle, although success is not impossible.
The Party in the South, where I am, is not very good at keeping volunteers, such as I was in the last election, in the loop. I’ve called them on this, but no one calls back. They have smart people, lots of young lawyers helping, but no sense of how to include people not of their own little circle. It’s just too much like high school cliques, and I see that reflected in the attitude of the DSCC and DCCC. Doggone! I didn’t elect a Senator from NY to tell me who I should vote for in my primary!
The topic of unions have popped up a few times on this thread.
Let me assure, you the titular heads of the unions have their heads up the ass of the DLC, same as Schumer and Emmanuel.
There is a vast disconnect between union leadership and the rank and file. The disconnect is the same as between bloggers and the DLC, and for the same reasons. The bosses want us to seldom be seen, and never heard. Just keep paying dues, or making contributions, do the dog work, and keep our opinions to ourselves. Which would be fine if they actually represented our interests.
You better believe the DLC and unions bosses would rather eat their children that give a platform to the membership. Becasue we would hold them accountable for their mismanagment, and kick their asses out.
Here’s what it boils down to – laziness, and goodies. It’s easier to shake down a few moneybags, and the perks are much nicer, than to be transparent and accountable to your constituents every election.
They are not going to change. We are going to have to be the change.
Veritas78 in 129 asks how much of Hillary’s contributions come from small dollar donors. According to her campaign, 95% of her contributors donated $100 or less in the last quarter. She had 49,321 contributors and raised $6,072,801, so at most 77% of her money came from small donors. Previous quarters have been similar, so about three quarters of her money is from small donors.
I have not read CTG, but the ideas about advertising, consultant rates and technology ring true to me. Markos’s WaPo editorial, however, rings false. Hillary has built a small dollar base, has negotiated smart media contracts, attacks Republicans aggressively, defends herself ably and (based on the datamart kerfuffle) is using technology. On most counts she runs the kind of ground based, disciplined and aggressive campaign that we need to win. Markos’s one tactical complaint is that she has not embraced the “netroots”, but given his own poll results why should she bother?
Despite Markos’s claim that the netroots is not ideological the real issue he, many other Daily Kos denizens and I have with Hillary is her support for the invasion of Iraq. The question is what ideas does she have for dealing with Iraq, should she become president.
Jim #186:
As someone who has knocked on doors for primary elections, you use a list of who has voted in the last few primaries. You can’t waste your time knocking on every door cuz only 1 in 10 people vote in the primaries.
Every door you hit of a non-voter is one door less of someone YOU KNOW WILL VOTE.
Jane Hamsher #108
I heard a great piece Friday on NPR (on my 12-minute drive home from work) about how satellite radio is changing things. Cross-country truckers like it a lot, because they don’t have to keep changing stations. They were talking about a station with GLBT-oriented talk, and myriad other genres.
The giant telecons probably own it all, but to maximize their profits, they are going to provide the greatest possible variety, including a lot of Liberal talk (no, not the usual sarcastic “SCLM”). This could be another great media frontier that could work for us, along with the Internet.
ok, jane, you changed to 116 while I typed…
I can’t help seeing Hillary as some sort of horrible political Medusa – look at the Kybosh she helped put on the PAM plan.
http://www.nex.com/innews.htm
A private PAM ( policy analysis markets ) was supposed to be a start-up in 2004 but the letter I wrote to the president of this nex company but they never replied.
I hear recently that anonymous cash is coming in through Adult industry marketing and this could be a kind of ‘ Hawala’ that would empower people to ‘ bet’ in this ‘ Terrorist casino’ ( Hillary)
So the invisible hand of the market could decide polition’s fates – some might say the wealthy would have the advantage but I would respond – only so long as we have famous charismantic candidates. Remember back in the early SNCC days when it was decided to go with the ‘ great leader’ model?
‘ Strong people don’t need a leader’ said a couple of people. Ella Baker and Emiliano Zapata for example.
We sure as hell don’ need no steenkin’ Vichy leaders do we.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Student_Nonviolent_Coordinating_Committee
Just my 2c to V*agra the C*alis
This is Dick
This is Jane
See Dick play with gun
See spot run
See Jane rip Dick a new one
Jane
that bit of your post subtitled ‘Resistance to the Netroots’ really deals with big corporate donors vs small donors.
If the commenter at #195 is correct, it suggests that small donors are far more important than big donors, even to Clinton who reportedly raised 77% of her monies from small donors. Your post confirms this with the quote from Eli Pariser of MoveOn PAC.
If money talks, does that not settle the issue?
Netroots is, however, more than small donors. It is the grass roots who have moved to the 21st century and are technology savvy. Clinton may get advice to ignore the netroots. If she is smart enough she would know what to do with that advice. Given the pronounced right wing bias of mainstream media, does any Democrat really have the luxury to ignore the netroots?
This netroots thing is a real non issue. Time won’t go back to pre Internet days.
The more relevant issue is ‘Infrasructure’. Both the DCCC and DSCC need to develop the infrasructure to receive and process feedback from local level grassroots organisations and think tanks. Democrats keep sending out these multiple choice questionnaires supposedly to seek the electorate’s views. They do nothing of the sort. Nowhere in these questionnaires is there an opportunity to suggest anything beyond what has already been determined – the issue, possible solution(s), etc. Focus groups are no different. Participants are screened and selected carefully. While I admit focus meetings do require some management, very few even selected participants come away from these with any positive feelings.
Re ‘The Consultant Problem’ – does the party HQ have any benchmark(s) to assess the value for money of these consultancies? If yes, what are these benchmarks? If no, why not? Who does the assessment (supposing any assessment of value for money is done at all)? These are questions, I know but we can’t get the Dem HQ to rethink the issue of consultancies seriously unless the HQ is subjected to questions that many need answers for.
I apologise that I tackled the three topics you raise in reverse order. Its just the way it occurred to me when I started this comment and I can’t be bothered to restructure it all.
I don’t think anybody would CARE that much about consultants bilking donors and taking too much off the top if they could GET RESULTS. But they don’t. That’s the bottom line. They’re not just greedy. They’re ineffective.
Look at how the Republicans approach campaigns. They play to WIN, even to the point of breaking the rules, risking career and reputation. As much as we may hate people like Delay and Rove, you have to give them some credit for having something in them that makes them want to win more than to just show up for work and get paid and protect their positions within the party.
I remember that scene from The Last Emperor: the young emperor orders the eunuchs out of the Forbidden City because they’ve been stealing. As they leave, they all carry a small urn. When the emperor protests them taking things with him, he is reminded that what they are carrying is their own testicles.
I say kick out the consultants out. Let them keep their dessicated testicles. Souvenirs for their corrupt and fruitless administration.
sona (200) — in re: The Consultant Problem, I feel confident that Dean and the DNC have a handle on that, but the DNC is not in a position to do anything directly about it. It’s obvious to me that the DNC is NOT spending money on these same consultants and is plowing the money back into the grassroots; this pisses off the DSCC/DCCC since they used to view the DNC as their piggybank. But the DNC’s stated role is the growth and promotion of the party, not the promotion of any particular Dem; the DSCC/DCCC are in the business of promotion for specific Senate/House candidates/incumbents. It would behoove every candidate/incumbent to grok this point and be more savvy about their campaign processes, including expecting more and better from consultants.
There is one best practice for most candidates. Hire marketing folks locally: they know their constituents, their market.
How will it affect 2008? We will test how dedicated grassroots and net political activists really are to the propositions they are expounding on in their books. Here’s the truth, and it’s unpleasant to contemplate: If Markos , Jerome, Eli, and others really believe, they should be prepared to campaign for activists to vote against any Dem nomineee aligned with consultants like Penn and Shrum. Are Democrats prepared to lose 2008 because they refuse to vote for Hillary (or a nominee like her) in large numbers–ON PRINCIPLE? I doubt it. That’s why Penn says “IGNORE” the netroots. He knows, and Hillary knows, Democrats will hold their noses and vote for the nominee–whoever they are. Want to carve out a third candidate, who will run as an independent? Russ Feingold maybe? That will cost Dems, too; Republicans will win that battle. So, basically, if the netroots are willing to lose and let America have another 8 years of the GOP, we can prevail and actually influence the Democratic Party. If we care more about winning in 2006 and 2008, we’ll end up being sell-outs. That’s what everyone is banking on.
Tennessean (203) — this is a democracy (allegedly) and we the people, netroots or otherwise, vote for our representatives. We don’t vote for or against consultants. Further, if the DNC’s 50-State Strategy makes a dent, the consultants will be less of an issue by 2008. The test is 2006 and it’s about the netroots/grassroots.
Penn has the luxury of counseling a candidate to whom a lot of money will gravitate for many reasons; that’s all the more reason to completely ignore what he says and concentrate on the races in our own backyard. If a candidate has a crappy consultant, we need to be in the face of the candidate and the consultant both RIGHT NOW and telling them they have passed the buffer zone and must now produce results.
There is an important point about the nature of small money today that is not made; email messages work on a segment of the population that is not the same as the highly-wired netroots. Clinton may be drawing heavily on this group; they are typically older, more conservative folks versus the netroots. Certainly makes it easier for Penn to counsel Clinton as he did, knowing the market segmentation as he does.
Rayne (#202), I hope you are right about recruiting marketing personnel locally.
Tenessean (#203), you ignore the fact that when the stink gets too overpowering, people are no longer prepared to hold their collective nose. UK local elections showed that – people want Blair out and rendered him a burnt toast. The party executive will have to force the issue not to self implode. There as here, the electorate is crying out for an articulate vision of leadership rather than fence sitters. Netroots notwithstanding, Democrat candidates ignore this at their peril.
sona (206) — here’s an example of the local market knowledge being important. Have a small race that encompasses (6) precincts. (3) precincts are white-German heritage-conservative-farmers, the other (3) are 30%each white-AfricanAmerican-Hispanic-bluecollar. The next race over to the north for a similar seat is entirely African-American, the race to the south is predominately white-conservative-split ticket. All three races straddle a divide in cable providers and reach of one of the cable programmers. All three race are served by right-wing-owned newspapers and a single mega-right-wing talk radio channel. A national Dem consultant will NOT grok how to handle this effectively, as we are currently seeing from results of races at state versus local level; the right is doing fine for a higher level race, but the meat of the ‘winger’s platform is non-existent and it’s beginning to show. Local marketing by region within the state or even county-by-count managed by a project manager would do a much better job.
Rayne @ 5:03 pm (#182) – Good analysis. I think the heart of that problem is that most political campaigns tend to be dominated by lawyers. I have nothing against lawyers, but I wouldn’t choose them to run a company. They inevitably think about how to protect the company from all sorts of legal liability, and generally that means that there’s nothing you can actually do. Everything has a risk. Successful business people know that and learn to minimize those risks. They know that you evaluate the performance of something before you pour lots of money into it. In short, lawyers and business people tend to think differently. I, BTW, am neither.
I can define this problem, but I’m not sure what the cure is. Maybe someone with people skills can offer a suggestion.
Cujo359 (208) — umm, I want to name names here, but let’s just say that the lawyer-thing is wider than just political campaigns. There are a lot in the party machine. I want to know why there aren’t more marketing people running the show.
Cujo (#208) sheets it to too many lawyers. No its not that – its more a disconnect between a macro interpretation of too diverse micro realities as Rayne said (#207)….
People skils – thats an idea but scorned in this day and age of aggreesively intolerant nationalism as being too namby pamby …………
As I said before, CTG is very incisive re the problems but does not provide the answers …………
Its no good finding supporting evidence of the issues already identified in the book but to propose strategies to overcome the bottlenecks.
K folks, the cheese eating (I love cheese) frogs stormed the proverbial Bastille, the Brits delivered a kick, not really de grace, what do we do? Do we wait till fall to ‘decider’ WMDs on Iran?
None of the above proposes a strategy at all and I wish I had a strategy to propose but Bush proclaimed once upon a time that “the world is hearing the voice of freedom from the center of the Middle East” – and that sonorous voice of freedom produced this: http://www.informationclearing…..e12969.htm
I don’t have a strategy to overcome political machinations, however important they are, because I am lost and I cannot keep from crying.
sona (210) — have faith. Sometimes the answer is simply avoiding what failed — and CtG pointed out all the pitfalls — and returning to our roots.
It’s been a curse to live here in union country, and a boon as well. The blessing is learning from the folks who see from a 50,000 foot perspective. The wisest of the union folks point out that the unions organized in the early days, one-to-one, mano-a-mano, over the kitchen table. They went to each and every worker’s house and sat down with them and talked. And talked a LOT. They didn’t take any one worker for granted; they worked to persuade every single one of them to join the union. It worked.
And there’s part of the answer; CtG isn’t quite as prescriptive about this as you might like, but it’s between the lines. We need to make contact with each and every voter at least three times between now and election day to increase our turn out. We need to see each of these voters as individuals, not just aggregates — although the aggregates do offer guidance on where to start a conversation. The DNC’s 50-State Strategy will make a difference since it moves us down the road with door-to-door contact, but much of the winning effort can only be assured by your local party and progressive organizations putting people out there to ask for the vote.