McGovernitz!!
Hi Sharkbabe

fitz?

woo hoo. Fitz and McGovern and Colbert!

The blinders are coming off, finally. The hits are going to come faster and faster for the Bush Regime.

Things may get ugly in the next few weeks and months, depending on how hard they fight back.

and Harry Taylor!

Hi jayt! MarcLordtz!

It was great to see Rummy stopped in his lying tracks. War criminal is right. Bravo to those people who held up signs and shouted at him. They are brave. Too bad the press can’t be as bold to even ask an appropriate question, and demand the truth.

Let’s not forget one of the great trailblazers in the effort to confront the Dear Leaders with their own words:

From Walcott.

“Yesterday I had the pleasure of interviewing Dr. Ben Marble, the emergency room doctor and indie rocker who told Vice President Dick Cheney to go fuck himself live on CNN. You can read the story on Wired News.”

Dr. Ben Marble and his big marbles.

-GSD

for searching discussion of how pushback becomes insurrectionary but remains democratic, see:

“legitimation crisis” by juergen habermas (trans. t. mccarthy), beacon press, boston, 1975

and gramsci on “war of position”

Well, just let me take the opportunity to choose the side withholding support, swear my oath, and sleep with a clear conscience.

Rummy’s retort when he stopped stammering idiotically was desperate and asinine — that the troops muat have believed there were WMDs since they wore HAZMAT gear.

Ray calling him on the non-sequitur was priceless, and Rummy was only able to admit defeat and cut his mic. Friggin’ wanker.

Dr. Marbles absolutely deserves kudos. His protest was a moment of extreme beauty and I am sure Senator Leahy got a chuckle deep down as did I…

Al Gore for president in ‘08! Hillary supporters launch the draft Hillary movement in Nashville today. The only way I will vote for Clinton is if, god forbid, she is the nominee the Democrats force down my throat.

take my dumb ’s’ off Dr. Marble, please. I would never disrespect him!

Please keep focused on exposing these NeoCon media whores…you are providing a great service to the American people.

I think we see it everywhere. I call it “The Quickening” 9although i know that’s about fetal movement), and a book comes to mind written by John ralston saul titled “The Unconscious Civilization.

The way I think about is also reflected in the twon hall kangaroo court trial scene in the movie Pleasantville, where the town fathers try to keep all the activity tamped down that is bring colour into the faces and bodies 9and trees and lwans, etc.) of Pleasantville. They pass a Non-Change-ist Bill, but things keep happening.

This is also the beginning of the real impact (the fasten-your-seat-belts bumpy part of the plane ride) identified by the Tofflers in the book PowerShift : Knowledge, Wealth, and Power at the Edge of the 21st Century, published in 1991. People have spent 15+years nodding sagely as others have said the Information Age would usher in big change … now it’s late-stage hierarchy not knowing how else to hold onto power other than being the increasingly anachronisticDecider and his disciples, the men behind the curtain who don’t like to be challenged and so make up what they believe people will believe.

Multiply that by hundreds of thousands, or millions, of workers fearful for the loss of a salary if they push back (including a complacent, well-paid and more-or-less sinecured press corps who depend on privileged access for staus and sources of material about which to type), whilst credit limits are bulging and additonal 50% off sales beckon … and you have the recipe for marketing authoritarianism.

Some are starting to realize that democratic principles and values, and the rule of law, are fast slipping down the rabbit hole, and beginning to demand answers. Others hope it’s not too late.

All very interesting to watch. The plane ride is likely to get bumpier.

Oh, it’s definitely a bobsled ride to hell for them, all right. Things are definitely picking up speed, almost unimaginable how quickly this has reached terminal velocity.

For the last three plus years the Repug corporate types taunted me over dinner as they swilled expensive wine and generally lorded it up over their sole meuniere. I sat still as death, biting through my tongue, hiding my eyes from theirs.

Now they quietly ask my spouse on the QT what I’m thinking about now, and who I’m throwing behind for 2008.

That slightly charred scent in the air is desperation on contact with the tipping point. I am going to have be very careful not to be obnoxious as these corporate-types issue their carefully shaded mea culpas.

ray was unprepared and I was disappointed in how little he knew about zarkawi

zarkawi was a product of our war in Iraq and rat had an incredible oportunity to make that clear and he missed it

in addition, both colon powell and his chief of staff have said that that un performance was his darkest day, and runsfeld had a lot of nerve telling the audience that the cartoons powell showed represented his point of view

rumsfeld’ credibilitry should have been laid to waste, and while I respect ray for what he’s trying to do, he was really unprepared

the whole cabal: bush, cheney, rumsfeld, rice, powell, wolfowitz, feith should have long ago been burned at the stake for their crimes against humanity. it seems a long way off yet, before they find their way to the Hague and life internment.
.

Sorry about the double post .. please remove one or the other. It was an unintentional and sloppy error on my part.

Just saw Rummer take the lash on teevee. A bright day when you can turn on the tube and see the CIA and a bunch of people in the audience put the Secretary of Defense on the defense. “I am not in the intelligence business.” Ass. Wonder how long before he’ll trot that pony out again.

sharkie – OMG, thanks for the lightbulb moment about wifi and the corporate greed. No more twisted copper pair!

So awesome that Rumsfeld finally got faced down. Woo-hoo! The stovepipe is breaking. Or maybe that’s the dike…er, you know what I mean.

As to the theory of progression to revolution in 5 easy Steps, I’m not sure where that came from. May have been Howard Zinn, maybe David McCullough, some obscure revolutionary war historian or my faulty memory. Anyhow it’s definitely thought plagiarism from somewhere, and the theory was convincing enough that it stuck with me. Will check in Zinn first.

If you’re a (slightly ashamed) Godsmack fan just returned from the dumpster behind your building, where you dumped their records, may I humbly offer an alternative?

Music Hates You is my band, from Athens, Georgia. An angry, hard band, that makes angry, desperate music for angry, desperate times.

I realize this may not be the best forum for huckstering our new record, but our anti-authoritarian tendencies sort of prevent us from even considering signing to the sort of major label/corporate juggernaut that makes a band like Godsmack the band with the #1 selling record in the country. So, y’know, we take whatever scraps of opportunity we can.

I am a regular Firedoglake reader, and a leftist blogger on my own, so I am not just breezing by here to spam you guys.

If you’ve got rage, we’ve got noise. Let’s get together.

Bravo Ray McGovern.

Gak,

We try to avoid overt expressions of violence. Trials and convictions hooray. Burning at the stake is too much like what Michael Savage and Ary-Ann Coulter would like to do to 73% of the non-fascists in the nation that are not on board the S.S. Hindenberg.

-GSD

Oh yeah, more fear from the Republicans. If the Democrats win the House and Senate, Bob Doles penis will deflate.

http://www.breitbart.com/news/…..8E4GH.html

Hi Sharkbabe, howzit? Replied to your nice compliment the other evening and said right backatcha, was of course in your personal EPU after you went night-night. But thanks again.

Off to read Wolcott’s Dr. Marble gem and watch the Rummy smack-down. Mmm, I’ve been hungry for this for soooo long.

Been voying from work all day aching to chime in.

On “Blowing the Whistle”: Goes way back, eh? There was an investigation (FBI?) we were informed about which went back that far. Actually, as I recall the investigators questioned people about events a decade or more ago.

On Rummy – his performance today indicates he has war crime tribunals on his mind.

We will see how courageous our military leadership is in the near future. I’m always hearing how brave our military is. Let’s see if they turn on Bushit with open hostility. They did with Clinton.

I always thought the military officers who openly critisized Clinton with still serving were hypocritical chickenshit. Big Men with Lottas Brass. Colon Powell was one. None of the generals who criticized Bushit AFTER they retired showed Any balls whatsoever, they had nothing to lose.

I’m waiting to see if there is even one Good Officer in the whole US military’s upper levels with enough spine to call out the Traitor Bush for what he is.

We’ll see is right.

me to me,

“ray was unprepared and I was disappointed in how little he knew about zarkawi”

Say whatttt? Ray was reading from a sheet and quoted Rumsfeld practically verbatim. He nailed him.

As for Zarkawi I’ll agree somewhat. He LIVED in Iran by the way, not Iraq prior to the invasion.

Donald Rumsfeld thinks he’s a going down as one of the greatest men of war in human history when in fact he’s a two-bit warmongering profiteer, no more.

If any of the whineasses that have been complaining about the fever swamp of the leftwing blogosphere had an ounce of intellectual honesty, they’d step up and admit that the leftwing blogs were a powerful voice for the people and the overwhelming majority of the better blogs on the left are bastions of democratic activity and patriotic determination. It is surely not the foul-mouthed, angry monolith that they’d have you believe.

On the subject of honesty, the disappointing arrest of Patrick Kennedy early this morning is a pain in the ass. Democrats, especially those whose last names end with Kennedy, really need to abstain from getting behind the wheel if they’ve had a few cocktails. It’s hard enough fighting the fascists without handing them more ammunition. Give the guy his day in court but if he was drinking and driving, he should get slapped, and hard.

as long as we stick with the two-party system, nothing will happen — our foreign policy’s the same no matter who’s in power — watch leading democrats applaud when bush attacks iran

at his peak, bush had 88% of the country rooting for him, which means that if he now only has 32%, it’s because 56% of americans are frontrunners who’ll go with anybody that looks like being a winner but who’ll feign shock if things go wrong

it’s easy for americans to sit on their haunches in their mortgaged houses & stuff their faces as they watch censored news of the war because they know it’s somebody else’s kid doing the fighting

charlie rangel’s about the only member of congress who has the cojones to keep saying we need to have universal conscription — with the draft, everybody’s family would suffer in wartime & it would be that much harder for our leaders [both parties] to plan on attacking iran, syria & all the other places the neocons want to raze to the ground

without the draft, our only chance of changing things is to form a third party

speaking of west point and pushing back. cadets rioted a couple of weeks ago, following drug searches. guess they took that ‘right to privacy’ thingie to heart. it’s interesting to note that the wapo characterizes it as ‘venting’:

April 27, 2006
Angry cadets riot following drug search
By Greg Bruno and Andrew Perlot
Times Herald-Record
gbruno@th-record.com
West Point – Cadets angry over a drug search rioted for more than an hour last week, throwing fireworks and garbage from their barracks in an uproar one officer described as “shameful.”

“Hundreds of cadets were hollering obscenities out of their windows and some were throwing objects,” in what the unidentified officer termed a riot in an incident summary obtained by the Times Herald-Record.

“A team-size element of firemen responded to the scene as cadets were throwing objects that were on fire out of the windows in Bradley Barracks,” the summary continued. “It was a shameful, pitiful day for” the U.S. Military Academy.

Lt. Col. Kent P. Cassella, a West Point spokesman, confirmed the events but downplayed their significance. He said no one was injured and nothing was damaged during the disturbance on April 19. He said no one was disciplined as a result of the incident.

http://www.recordonline.com/ar…..04-27.html

Cadets Vent at West Point After Drug Searches
By Thomas E. Ricks
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, April 28, 2006; Page A10
At least 1,000 West Point cadets demonstrated last week against the manner in which a drug search was carried out in their barracks, shouting and throwing fireworks and other objects from their windows, according to accounts of the incident.

patrick — no place to listen?

Nice takedown of the paste eater, by the way.

Jon Husband (16) — ah, yes, I’d forgotten about that Toffler book, Powershift. We really could use a list of books on transformational changes in organizations; do you have any other texts you could suggest?

If we take back the majority we are going to have to do an enormous housecleaning; we are going to have to wrap our heads around that after being beaten up for a decade. Let alone how to transition to a unity effort…yeesh.

I think Ray McGovern very carefully quoted Dumsfeld and also allowed a very significant pause during the Zarqawi bit… He was, as usual, cool under pressure and let rummy have all the rope he needed to hang himself in public. Zarqawi (dubious that he really exists in Iraq today, despite the propaganda video lauded today) was in the area of Iraq not controlled by Saddam. I think Ray did a brilliant job.

I liked that once again Olbermann ran 4 mins. of the tape tonight. So some context of the whole exchange could emerge. C&L will no doubt have the clip soon. And Keith caught another telling moment, when Rummy got really backed-up, he ran and hide behind Collin Powell’s skirt. Funny how they still run to the General for credibilty when they hear their bacon frying.

“And now for something completely different”:

I recommend everyone click on this. Look what the volcano’s been doing, some amazing pictures..

http://www.katu.com/stories/85601.html

“Power, McGovern! POWER! UNLIMITED POWER!”

;>)

More signs of a “reckoning?”
Cadets Vent at West Point After Drug Searches
By Thomas E. Ricks Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, April 28, 2006; Page A10
“At least 1,000 West Point cadets demonstrated last week against the manner in which a drug search was carried out in their barracks, shouting and throwing fireworks and other objects from their windows, according to accounts of the incident….”

besides, Ray was being threatened with removal and rummy saved him from instant ejection to show he is not afraid of criticism. Long live freedom of speech, thanks to our govt.

Gyro Gear Lo*se @ 36 -

I saw someone somewhere on the nets making the conjecture that Powell was the only person who could have stopped the war. Will look for the link. Powell will have to address that.

Noam Chomsky spoke at West Point?!
Now THAT is a harbinger if there ever was one.

Granting or withholding support…
Exactly! That’s why Feingold’s censure idea was so brilliant. It would force members of Congress to grant or withhold support. Dems need to keep coming up with unpleasant ways to force that choice on Congress.
Hey, did anything come of that Vermont impeachment thing? How about Illinois and California?

gyro gear, thanks for the awesome picks of Mt. St. Helen’s.

I’ve just started reading reading Trainor’s and Gordon’s Cobra II: The Inside Story Of The Invasion And Occupation of Iraq. (These are the same two guys who wrote the definitive history of the 1991 Gulf War; Trainor is a retired USMC three-star and Gordon is a reporter.) I’m about a fifth of the way in to it, chronologically a few weeks before crossing of the Line of Departure. Already it’s apparent that Rumsfeld has a lot of American (not to mention Iraqi) blood on his hands. Whatever limited chance of success this strategically foolish choice might have had was rendered far beyond reach by Rummy’s mis-micromanagement. It’s already apparent from the narrative that by using the Iraq war to try to prove the validity of his vision of “Militry Transformation”, and in the process dismissing inputs from uniformed officers as relics of “old thinking”, he condemned the venture to certain long-term failure in spite of the initial success, an to the bloody quagmire that we’re now in.

This is yet another book about the Bush-Cheney administation that you have to get up and walk around the block after every chapter.

This is a hoot:
>>>>>

Commentary Last Updated: May 2nd, 2006 – 00:29:50

What’s cooking in Crawford?
By Michael Ash
Online Journal Contributing Writer

May 2, 2006, 00:25

With the unofficial start of the backyard cookout season about to begin and thoughts of a friend’s secret potato salad dressing in mind, I began to wonder if “The Decider†had chosen what to serve this Memorial Day. Would there be a not yet declassified secret sauce on the chicken wings or would it be pretty much the standard ingredients served up all along?

* Invoke Sept. 11.

* Try putting a positive spin on it.

* Blame someone else.

* Ignore it / Play dumb.

more here:

http://onlinejournal.com/artma….._754.shtml

I loathed Bush when he was at 91% and standing on a rubble heap. Can I get credit somewhere for that?

You remember the Marcos overthrow in Manila back in the Glory Days of Democracy? That’s kind of what the Rumsfeld Moment felt like today.

Ferdinand Marcos was being confronted again and again by a public increasingly outraged by his autocratic governance and furious kleptocracy. When he had Benigno Aquino liquidated on his return to Manila from exile, all hell broke loose, leading to a strange “snap election,” which both Cory Aquino and Marcos claimed to have won. There were massive street demonstrations every day, huge gatherings of Aquino supporters, until Marcos fled in fear with his lovely wife Imelda (now a member of the Phillipine Congress) and a billion or so dollars.

A citizen spoke out and started the whole thing.

Much like Harry Taylor spoke out (whatever became of him, BTW?), Stephen Colbert spoke out (what will become of him?), and now Ray McGovern has spoken out. He’s long been outspoken, but has had few opportunities to confront the liars in the the regime.

As more citizens find their voices (wasn’t it Medea who led the way, so long ago, rising up to confront Bloody Rummy in Congressional hearings, and even once (at least) rising up to confront Bush himself) this brittle regime cracks and crumbles.

Finally it falls to pieces. Can we expect an exodus? Was Cheney preparing for sulking exile in Latvia?

While we’re at it…could someone ask Commander Cuckoo why WE’RE PAYING to have our fellow countrymen spy on us?

There’s something creepily pornographic about PAYING watchers to watch us.

bel

When we see the history of the 1970s and the anti-Vietnam War movement, all we see are the highlights of that time. Those of us who remember living through it may have forgotten how normal life was most of the time for most of us. Every so often a major protest or some other event would make the news (like the horror of Kent State), disrupting the daily routine. These incidents built up over time to increase the perception that the government was out of touch with America and no longer represented the people.

This is happening today to the Bush government. They have lost control of the narrative, pretty much since the start of this year. It may be the anti-war movement, or the pro-immigrant movement, or the healthcare crisis. Whatever it is, the Bush government has no credibility with the people. The corporate media “news” are far, far behind the rest of us. They’re even lagging behind local news.

The incident today with Rumsfeld feels very much like one of those historic moments from the 1970s. By itself it’s not significant, but it could turn out to be a significant emperor-has-no-clothes moment. It will likely be on the newsreels of tomorrow regarding this era.

tryggth #40
At the risk of overly simplifying things, the whole goddamned Iraq mess is Powell’s fault. If he had said, “this is crap” and resigned, there would have been too much of a sh*t storm for the war to happen. His hemming and hawing now is utterly worthless. Some strategically placed words back then would have made all the diference.

Jon Husband! Hail to another John Ralston Saul fan! For my money he’s one of the 3-4 most penetrating thinkers about contemporary western politics and culture. Along with Kevin Phillips and Michael Lind.

The Salvador Option has been invoked in Iraq

The American public is being prepared. If the attack on Iran does come, there will be no warning, no declaration of war, no truth.

By John Pilger
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article12945.htm

patrick — no place to listen?

Ok. I have two songs up on the server, but the album doesn’t OFFICIALLY come out until 30 May, TRex and I’s birthday, since we’re twins and all…

OK, here are the links:
Send More Paramedics

How Do I Get Him Out of My Living Room?

Nice takedown of the paste eater, by the way.

’tweren’t nothin’, ma’am. Glad to be of service. ;-)

tryggth @ 40–

I believed that then and now. If he had resigned, the country would have turned away; he had that much respect and could have changed history. Instead, people tout him as “the good soldier”. He also had the obligation to not follow an unlawful order and he was not in uniform at the time, making it doubly damning. He knew better.

>>>>>>>>>>>>

During the Iran-Contra hearings of 1987, Senator Daniel Inouye of Hawaii, a decorated World War II veteran and hero, told Lt. Col. Oliver North that North was breaking his oath when he blindly followed the commands of Ronald Reagan. As Inouye stated, “The uniform code makes it abundantly clear that it must be the Lawful orders of a superior officer. In fact it says, ‘Members of the military have an obligation to disobey unlawful orders.’ This principle was considered so important that we–we, the government of the United States–proposed that it be internationally applied in the Nuremberg trials.” (Bill Moyers, “The Secret Government”, Seven Locks Press; also in the PBS 1987 documentary, “The Secret Government: The Constitution in Crisis.”)

http://www.omjp.org/ArtLarryDisobey.html

Pretty ballsy performance by McGovern – and in the belly of the beast apparently. Just wtf is “The Southern Center for International Studies” anyway? I mean, how do they Repubs keep finding these places, and how reputable of a place can it be when I plainly hear catcalls at McGovern to “Sit down!”, “We don’t want to hear you!”, and the ever popular “Traitor!”. I’m thinking maybe they’re organized for the sole purpose of hosting an admin love-in speech, then disappear(?)

tryggth #40 – Atrios posted that bit about Powell being the only man, besides Bush, who could’ve stopped the war from happening:

http://www.haloscan.com/commen…..8624125472

It’s getting even more interesting. Here’s REAGAN’s NSA chief calling Bush out.

http://www.latimes.com/news/op…..t-opinions

Here’s the CATO INSTITUTE (Doesn’t get much more c onservative than that) doing likewise. Link courtesy of Glenn Greenwald.

http://cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=6330

Colbert, bless his heart, may have broken the dam.

While we’re on the subject of music, I feel I would be remiss if I did not mention that Jason from The DriveBy Truckers has penned a truly heartbreaking song about a friend who was killed in Iraq.

It’s called ‘Dress Blues’ and you can hear it here.

*sigh*

Have a hankie ready. I warned you.

God, I hope you’re right. As more people overcome their fear, this whole group of lying, corrupt bastards will be brought down.

There were a treasured few, but I honestly thing that Stephen Colbert opened up the floodgates with his very direct and very public bitch-slapping of Bush.

“Don’t you know you better run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run
Oh I said you better run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run, run

Finally the tables are starting to turn
Talking about a revolution
Finally the tables are starting to turn
Talking about a revolution oh no
Talking about a revolution oh no”

–Tracy Chapman

*ilson:
This is the first time since 2000 that the US has testified publicly before the committee, which, as a signatory to the UN Convention against Torture, it is required to do.

Under oath and penalty of perjury. *smack forehead* What am I saying – it’s not a lie if the President told you to say it.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Waaaaaaaaay OT but I have to comment on it.

Notice that Gonzales was not there to handle the Moussaoui interviews. Any bets on his availability if GOv had WON?

He’s a far more shocking disaster than Rumsfeld IMO (as was Ashcroft before him) and probably more blood on their hands, as they signed off on the OK for so many things that have led to the misinformation of America as well as taking the Extinct Species Sharpie to fundamental freedoms that taken many years of evolution.

Warrant clause – meet Duckbilledplatypus.

undercover (#31):

hold off on that third party crap for a while. here’s why: there’s a move in the southwest to start a third party in protest against the brown people immigrating. if so, democrats and progressives will find it easier to be more bold in their choice of a candidate. maybe the new paradigm is in place to stay, but, i’ve voted in 12 national elections. the most any third party ever achieved in the past fifteen elections is to be a king maker to the party on the other side of the fence. a left of center third party would almost guarantee the republicans would win again, unimaginable as that seems now.

I doubt Powell could have stopped the Rummy-Cheney-Bush steamroller that was determined to start the war. But his resignation at the time would have made a big bump in the road.

Re the Imperial Reckoning: I’ll believe it when (if) they lose the Congress in Nov. That’s the only watershed event that matters at this point.

re: West Point

bkny 32, John Casper 38, fahrender 41

My gut says the drug searches were payback for having Chomsky talk there. A number of instructors would’ve had to press for him to come, and the Commandant would’ve had to ok it. It’s likely that the instructors themselves were responding to questions in and out of class that were very, um, topical.

I felt the momentum when everyone at Jazz fest cheered the “Impeach Bush” sign flown overhead. New Orleans is mostly Dem but there were an awful lot of W stickers intermingled. I am seeing Make Levees not war t-shirts all over town. On Mom’s and young women mostly but some kids too!

When it becomes more “popular” we will have the momentum. Unfortunately many are “joiners” they want to do the popular thing and don’t necessarily think about the right thing. When anti-bush is popular we can turn the tide and people can speak up everywhere. We can stop them if we keep it up! Never give up! Keep on fighting! Drip drip drip.

That footage is incredible. The fact that they were going to remove him for asking tough questions is so telling. It says so much about what this administration is about. This kind of thing opens people’s eyes to the truth. The truth will set us free from this criminal administration!

Don’t forget the guy in New Orleans, right after Katrina, who said “Go F*&! Yourself” to Dick Cheney:

http://www.crooksandliars.com/…..html#a4856

To tell the truth, I am most fascinated by Noam Chomsky’s being at West Point. Isn’t he someone the General would call a positively seditious Frenchman? I should check that one out.
Disclaimer: Like a lot of Chomsky’s ideas, but never got through a title.

OT, I just have to say something about last night’s Godsmack thread, which I took in at 5 am ET not being able to sleep. I have never seen so much bullshit strawman blow-the-troops-no-matter-what crap in my life. It was surreal. The attacks on Jane were beyond ridiculous. I might have to start my own blog and write something on the whole matter, so astonishingly full of shit was it all. But shorter what I’d write: both military and nation are presently hostage to evil usurpers. As Hunter Thompson said, we are the nazis in this present game. So all this sentimental love the troops porn doesn’t quite apply in the good old way. I feel that Jane and all we bush hatas see the troops as fellow humans who have been put into an impossible situation for a failed drunk’s ego. All manner of assholes last night came out of the woodwork demanding “Jane respect the military,” and even she felt the need for reflexive defensiveness. I submit that Hello everyone, it’s 1933 Germany in America. The “debate” of “military good or bad” is pure Goebbels, i.e. Rove. Of course our military are honorable in their bravery and mission to protect our country. How do we honor them when they’ve been hijacked?

Can any thinking human deny that their bravery and mission have been thwarted and distorted and fucked over by crazed cokehead delusional soldier neverbeen wannabes?

Anyway, sorry to bring it up again – most dumbass thread ever on fdl.

Pee- yewww. Anybody smell methane??? Or is it just fear?

Oh, its coming.

Pup @ 49

My personal view of the high water mark for these crooks was in that hospice room of Terri Shaivo’s. They’ve been in a tailspin ever since america saw Tom DeLay stick his nose into that sorry fight, and Bush fly back to the W.H. to sign that bill.

cleter #40 and angie #54 –

Although I agree that Powell should have done everything in his power to try to stop the war, in fairness to him it is the Commander in Chief who makes the call, not his staff. Powell chose to serve under President Bush and has to live with the consequences of that decision.

But, more importantly, I don’t think he could have stopped the war no matter what he said. They would have swiftboated him in a heartbeat. Remember he already had a rap of being “too cautious” in committing troops and always vetoing military actions. They would have destroyed him if he had publicly come out against them. And again to be fair, he was Secretary of State, not even Defense Secretary. IT WASN’T HIS CALL and THEY WOULD HAVE GONE TO WAR NO MATTER WHAT HE DID, RESIGNATION AND/OR OP-ED ARTICLES WRITTEN ON A WEEKLY BASIS. Nothing was going to stop it.

Sharkbabe. Damn straight.

Sharkbabe #68, among others

As Sinclair Lewis said decades ago, “When facism comes to America it will be carrying a flag in one hand and the bible in the other.”

Love how the conservatives feel the need to denigrate Colbert, with their sententious, patronizing velvet tones, as if their attitudes about comedy had more intrinsic value than a used tampon.

On Rumsfeld, the Olbermann camera angle and additional video added some nice context. McGovern did overdo the preamble a bit, probably working up the nerve, but he nevertheless delivered the money shot.

Anybody notice the frozen expression on the security guard next to McGovern? Standing right at his shoulder, as if he were about to pull out numchuks. Then when McGovern jibes “this is America, huh?” Rummy showed his only signs of life, sniffing about how much access Ray had already got without engaging in the oral satisfaction of full on ring kissing. Guess it’s all about camera time.

And what’s with the shit-eating grins on the faces of the folks ripping protest flags out of the hands of protestors? Why do these fundie conservobots think their only mission in life is to do things that make liberals mad? Don’t they have any other way to get their jollies? I mean really, security is coming down the aisle, and they have to invade another’s personal space to that degree? Why do I feel that if I went down to Atlanta and started ripping up signs and banners adorned with dead fetus imagery that I’d be the one who’d end up paying the price in the end? Was Rummy fully aware that he was giving the keynote address at the annual IOKIYAR convention?

oh my, Sharkbabe, that was one heckuva blast of hellacious writing just there… may I say I especially like this?:
>>>>>>>>>

Can any thinking human deny that their bravery and mission have been thwarted and distorted and fucked over by crazed cokehead delusional soldier neverbeen wannabes?

>>>>>>>>>>>
dayumm, girl. whew. it’s beauteous.

some poll indicated 90% of the troops believe Saddam was behind 9/11 … just who the hell is feeding them that crap? If the troops have to believe that utter lie to get them to fight in Iraq, what a sorry state of affairs for the military. The top dogs all know better but the grunts have all been sucking down gallons of KoolAid at the mess hall…

They’re basically done. They are revealed by their own deception and secrecy. You are right frustration is simmering and bubbling up – it has broken through their cloistered walls. They must be brought to account before more damage is done. Where is the Congress?

Re Powell. He was with the program. The decider decides, he types and reads the decision out. And that is just what he did.

btw – I read an interview somewhere today 9maybe via huffpo?) of Madeleine Albright who has been out and about a lot lately (has she written a book or something?). She said the reason Powell never travelled like a proper Sec of State was because he was too tied up in DC watching his back. Rummy and Cheney were not his friends. What kind of CEO allows that kind of backbiting to go on amongst his managers (I know, I know, he is a decider, not a manager).

I don’t watch TV. I found a link earlier to an AP article about the Rummy McGovern exchange. http://www.editorandpublisher……1002463146 But, I just read the transcript posted at C&L http://www.crooksandliars.com/…..overn.html

Pretty interesting to compare, I thought- AP leaves out some of the more interesting parts. Compare: (sorry for all the spaces- I couldn’t figure out how to defeat WP on this account)

AP: A partial transcript of his encounter with McGovern follows. McGovern had opened by mentioning that top CIA officials had accused Rumsfeld of manipulating the facts and misleading the public; that Rumsfeld had firmly linked Iraq to al-Qaeda before the war, and that he had said the he knew where WMDs were located.

C&L: McGovern: and So I would like to ask you to be up front with the American people, why did you lie to get us into a war that was not necessary, that has caused these kinds of casualties? why?
———-
AP: RUMSFELD: I did not. I said I knew where suspect sites were and-

C&L: RUMSFELD: I did not. I said I knew where suspect sites were and we were…..just…(crosstalk)
———
AP: QUESTION: This is America.

C&L: McGovern: This is America, Huh (applause)
———
AP: QUESTION: Well we’re talking about lies and your allegation there was bulletproof evidence of ties between al Qaeda and Iraq

C&L: McGovern: Well we’re talking about lies and your allegation there was bulletproof evidence of ties between al Qaeda and Iraq. Was that a lie? or where you mislead?
———
AP: QUESTION: Zarqawi? He was in the north of Iraq in a place where Saddam Hussein had no rule. That’s also…

C&L: McGovern: Zarqawi? He was in the north of Iraq in a place where Saddam Hussein had no rule. That’s where he was.
———
AP: RUMSFELD: Let me give you an example. It’s easy for you to make a charge, but why do you think that the men and women in uniform every day, when they came out of Kuwait and went into Iraq, put on chemical weapon protective suits? Because they liked the style? They honestly believed that there were chemical weapons. We believed he had those weapons

C&L: RUMSFELD: You are… Le…,Let me, Let me give you an example it’s easy for you to make a charge, Um, but why do you think that the men and women in uniform every day when they came out of Kuwait and went into Iraq put on chemical weapon protective suits, because they like the, ah, style (laughter) They honestly believed that there where chemical weapons Saddam Hussein had used Chemical weapons on his own people previously, he’d used them on his neighbor the Iranians and they believed he had those weapons. We believed he had those weapons.
———
AP: MODERATOR: I think, Mr. Secretary, the debate is over. We have other questions, courtesy to the audience.

C&L: Moderator: I, I Think, I think, I think mister secretary the debate is over we have other questions, that courtesy to the audience. (applause)

RUMSFELD: I guess over here

Moderator: Good grief. That’s a hard act to follow
———-

Colbert, McGovern, Taylor, the Cheney guy… by one theory, these would be the “Innovators”. (PS – This ties in with the theory of blogs being like the early punk music scene)

According to Wikipedia, here is the Everett Rogers Diffusion of Innovations theory:

innovators – - venturesome, educated, multiple info sources

early adopters – - social leaders, popular, educated

early majority – - deliberate, many informal social contacts

late majority – - skeptical, traditional, lower socio-economic status

laggards – - neighbours and friends are main info sources, fear of debt

To restore America, be on the lookout for Early Adopters. And when Early Majority comes, remember it is a majority.

sharkbabe – admit it, it’s cool to see Jane jump into the pit.

As to the theory of progression to revolution in 5 easy Steps, I’m not sure where that came from. May have been Howard Zinn, maybe David McCullough, some obscure revolutionary war historian or my faulty memory. Anyhow it’s definitely thought plagiarism from somewhere, and the theory was convincing enough that it stuck with me. Will check in Zinn first.

Crane Brinton, Anatomy of Revolution.

Nice job, VG and thanks. See, even when we think we’re getting the real thing, we really aren’t all the time. :>( But thanks to quick and alert people, it can be revealed. :>)

heh. heh. heh. Yeh. I’d like to give a personal shout out to my good friends….

mweeheeheheheh…

Re Powell: Tainted. Tainted. Tainted.

ANY credibility he ever had is gone. Swiftboated or not he is completely tainted along with anyone in this administration. Anyone who had an idea that the BS warmongering was going down and didn’t speak up is guilty of fraud. Defrauding the American people into spending billions needlessly and having our troops die needslessly is morally wrong and negligent in my opinion. I am not a lawyer but it may even be a crime. I may even be treason. There is much evidence the administration went against the best interest of our country. In my book that is treason.

Who knew what and when will determine who is guilty. I just hope they get stopped before the next world war breaks out.

Just enough time to make a coke float and watch TDS.

“It’s 1 hurricane season till the 06′ elections.
It’s 3 huricane seasons till the 08 elections.
Nature will be voting from now on.”

And speaking of the Colbert moment. ABC has a video up (go direct to the link from Froomkin) of Colbert’s performance from the perspective of an ABC camera. at about 16 minutes in, the Helen Thomas video starts and the ABC camera just sits on Clusterfucks face the entire time. It is a beautiful thing to see. He squirms, he grimaces, he squints, he twitches. He looks like he is about to explode. Meanwhile, you can clearly hear the soundtrack of the video…I thought at several points Bush actually got hooked and empathized with the Colbert Character wanting to run away from the evil Helen Thomas.

Steven Colbert forced a sitting whiney ass titty baby president to sit and take it like a man. Truly a priceless moment.

choochmac @72:

Powell could have significantly slowed BushCo’s momentum and sped hard pushback much earlier. He was in bed with them, being paid, and chose not to. Before you start kicking off your shoes and getting all doe-eyed in Powell’s presence, I suggest you study up on the man himself so you know what you’re dealing with. Start by googling ‘Powell, Colin, My Lai Coverup.’

OT

Does anyone know when we might know how Fitz’s hearing went that is taking place tomorrow.

Will we have to wait for an opinion to be issued?

Will there be documents filed that we will get to look at over the weekend?

Have a one track mind lately.

Thanks in advance

rayne @ 34 .. too many books to recommend all at once .. I was an organizational change consultant for a whole bunch of years, specializing in whole-systems approaches .. tricky area.

One book I can recommend that is sobering, frightening and quite pedantic in its style (and thus far altogether too accurate for my taste) is The Fourth Turning: America’s Next Rendezvous With Destiny, by Strauss and Howe, who also wrote Generations and Millenials. They wrote the book in ‘95 if I remmber correctly, and have had a website operating with an active bulletin board / forum for quite a while. It really is a very very sobering read. They essentially predicted back then exactly what is going on now. The link above will take you to the site.

Minnesotachuck@51 … proud to say that John Ralston Saul was, for five years until last year, the consort (husband) of Canada’s Governor-General (our anachronistic head of state). The equivalent would be .. hmm .. the spouse of a recent ex-president, or something like that (given that at least half of Americans sorta, i think, like to see the presidents as quasi-royalty.

He is a brilliant, and also sometime pedantic and/or bombastic writer … but his thinking is indeed very good. He also wrote Voltaire’s Bastards – The Dictatorship of Reason in the West … and The Doubter’s Companion – A Dictionary of Aggressive Common sense.

His most recent book is a bit more pragmatic, and I think is a hopeful response to his cry of despair in The Unconscious Civilization .. it’s titled The Collapse of Globalism: and the Reinvention of the World

For those of you in the DC area interested in getting more info than you’ll probably find anywyere else:

elen Caldicott a great anti-nuclear activist. We have to kick start an
anti-nuke DC movement before we all fry!

Monday, May 8
2:00 � 4:00 p.m.
Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies
1740 Massachusetts Ave. NW

The Center for International Policy cordially invites you to:
NUCLEAR TURNING POINT
Does the Quest for U.S. Nuclear Dominance Undermine Non-Proliferation?

featuring

DR. HELEN CALDICOTT
Author, The New Nuclear Danger
President, Nuclear Policy Research Institute
Founder, Physicians for Social Responsibility

SELIG S. HARRISON
Next Steps in Iran and North Korea
Author, Korean Endgame
Director, Asia Program,
Center for International Policy

Moderator:
Thomas L. Hughes
President Emeritus
Carnegie Endowment for International Peace

with Commentary by:
Jack Mendelsohn
Senior Representative, U.S. Arms Control and Disarmament Agency in
the START I negotiations with the Soviet Union and
former Deputy Director, Arms Control Association

peace,
jim

And another thing, the only thing I’ve heard Powell criticize too little, too late was the too few troops– touting his own doctrine. The other regret was lying to the UN, but no, he does not say it that way, oh no. He says the intelligence was wrong and it was a low point in his career.

Well, boo hoo hoo.

“…but there does seem to be a day of reckoning on the horizon.”

I agree Jane, however, I have a sickening feeling that it will make Kent State look like a walk in the park before it is all done. I hope I’m wrong, but psychos like King George, Rummy and Uncle Dick don’t like being made a fool of and don’t plan to have a repeat of the late 60’s and early 70’s…

There is a resolution in the House to decalre that Congress must authorize any action against Iran prior to any presidential action.

A Roots Project member has written an excellent diary on the subject – her first ever diary.

Please have a look and consider recommending the diary.

Thanks! This is a very important issue – we don’t need Iran = “Iraq, the Sequel”

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/5/4/22283/86270

What I would give to see Dr. Caldicott in person. I have read her stuff and have seen her only on CSPAN– 60 Minutes should devote 2 Sundays to her. She is an amazing human.

re: Ray McGovern- I transcribed an interview he did on the BradShow back on 6/11/05 and it gives a real sense of the guy. Interesting part about Fitz, too. Posted links to mp3 files of the interview on previous thread, at this EPU’d comment: http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..ment-89991

I watched this vid over and over on C&L then watched it again on Keith Olberman. Even Scarborough couldn’t deny that Rummy got punked and deserved it. Just think, the wingnuts are going to hell in a handbasket and we still haven’t seen what Fitzmas has in store for Rove and the Abramoff indictments haven’t even begun. Bush’s poll numbers will be in the teens by June….

And on that note, I’d like to give a personal shout out to Fred Hiatt, Len Downie and all my good friends at the Washington Post.

Jane – you’re doing the Colbert thing on a more grassroots level with Judy, Woodward, Hiatt Howell, Downie, Keller, Sulzberger, Klein, Matthews, Lieberman, and the rest of the pathetic enablers of the Bush Debacle.

Keep the heat on! Dead accurate, angry, merciless, incisive humor is the best weapon and your incendiary writing is the best weapon delivery system we’ve got right now.

Sorry to bring up Powell. Sort of like mentioning ‘death’ at a dinner party.

But I find it fascinating (and will think about it more) that the same mix of feelings expressed here about Powell might be in some ways similar to the mix of feelings the world feels about America.

TSop Kent State look like a walk in the park before it is all done

Yes, I was thinking about Kent State recently after the Neil Young thread. I wondered how many FDLers were old enough to have witnessed “four dead in Ohio” first hand (or via TV) at the time. A horrible moment in many such.

tryggth– talk about bringing up the undead; this just in:

>>>>>>>>

MOSCOW Vice President Dick Cheney on Thursday delivered the Bush administration’s strongest rebuke of Russia, saying in a speech to European leaders in Lithuania that the Russian government “unfairly and improperly restricted” people’s rights.

He also suggested it sought to undermine its neighbors and to use the country’s vast resources of oil and gas as “tools of intimidation or blackmail.”

“In many areas of civil society – from religion and the news media, to advocacy groups and political parties – the government has unfairly and improperly restricted the rights of her people,” Cheney said in a speech before European leaders in Lithuania’s capital, Vilnius. “Other actions by the Russian government have been counterproductive, and could begin to affect relations with other countries.”

Cheney’s remarks, which officials in Washington said had been heavily vetted and therefore reflected the administration’s current thinking on Russia, appeared to lay down new markers for a relationship that has become strained and could become significantly more so in the months ahead.

http://www.iht.com/articles/20…..cheney.php

PS– when was the last time he traveled outside the bubble anyway? Wonder if he took a zigzag, evade the Jackal route and his chem bio suit.

obsessed says:
May 4th, 2006 at 8:04 pm….

I couldn’t agree more. I love this site. Jane and Christy my new heroines!!

Pach- thanks for the link to the diary. I don’t have enough kos comments to recommend it (officially in kos arcana), but anyone who is registered can leave a comment. It is an excellent piece.

Hi Valley Girl

Heck, I remember Vietnam Moratorium Days I & II (while living in SF Valley). Day I, was a massive rally in downtown LA. The theory was, no one work or go to school for one day — if the war was still going in a month, we’d go on moratorium for two days the next month, etc.

#I was great. #II never really caught on. At the second, I went to a rally in a park in Encino with just about 30 people, even though the flyers said “Phil Ochs will be there” (he was, playing on the lawn under a tree for about a dozen people, myself included)

Actually, the Day Without an Immagrant last Monday reminded me of Vietnam Moratorium Day.

angie @ 103 -

When I read that I was reminded about Condi’s whining about Chavez. You kinda’ have to visualize the crack-addict observing the problem is the pusher rather than a health problem. And if you know any crack addicts you probably know its all a diversion so they can make their next score.

Alice Marshall @84

Hi Alice, thanks for the good guess. The time frame would’ve been about right for Anatomy of a Revolution. I did my deepest reading about it between 9 and 13, when I was a drummer in a Revolutionary War reenactment troop in upstate New York leading up to the bicentennial in 1976 (see “Who’s Who Of Scarily Geeky Children, ca. 1975). Hey, I went to Yorktown in 76, baby, only a couple hundred years too late. If the book was around in the early 70s there’s a decent chance I read it.

Do you still have a copy? =)

I remember Kent State all too well. I was in high school, and when the news of the shooting came filtering in that afternoon, we walked out. That was a big deal in those days. I remember the rage on the part of the adults … even those who were really straight (remember that word?) – it was too much for just about everybody, and it was when I remember things really beginning to shift. Interestingly, the whole point of the demonstrations at Kent State were regarding lies regarding the secret bombing of Cambodia, the truth of which had recently been LEAKED to the press. The parallels are real.

distillation of all I’ve read today:

murder monkey has the all the power, it’s all fascistically unstoppable

so what shall we do

heh

Gyro 71

I’m with you on the turning point being Terri S. It was the first time that any polling showed that 78% of the public disagreed with what the theocrats were trying to do. That meant that a large number of the winger base was not on board with Dr. Frist & Co deciding when to pull someone else’s plug. Way too many people had stories of family or friends having to deal with the medical machinery prolonging the dying process.

The theocrats didn’t see that one coming and they had a really hard time backpedaling. That seemed to be an eye opener for a lot of people. It was just the beginning of the realization of the overreach that the republicrooks had in gear.

Let’s hope that the trend lines continue in the direction they have gone since then.

So, I just watched the ABC footage of the Colbert bit and first off… he didn’t get the silent treatment that people watching the initial feed used on Crooks & Liars may have thought he got.

Second, Bush did seem to try to be SOMEwhat of a good sport at the beginning of that “audition video”, but the second Helen Thomas came onscreen he suddenly got the look of murder in his eyes. Then he got a little chuckle out of the “There’s a WALL here!” bit, and then the second Helen came onscreen again, that look came back.

It’s never been clearer… Bush fucking HATES that woman. I mean you can see the visceral reaction he gets whenever she comes onscreen. It starts with the “sniffing farts” look, and then from there just descends into raw dismissive hatred. You could practically see the steam rising off of him.

Maybe I’m just projecting… it’s always possible. But the look I was seeing on Bush’s face when Helen Thomas was on that screen was one that just screamed “KEEP THIS BASTARD AWAY FROM THE CUTLERY, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!!!!”

VG: Cheers!

To 103

The Russians should listen, because Cheney knows all about defects in civil society.

He’s what we call an expert.

But it’s neat to see that Washington elves are getting restlesssss.

TRex and I went to see Dr. Helen Caldicott speak when she was touring behind her book “Missle Envy.” We were, oh, about 12.

It scared the BEJESUS out of us.

A bunch of that book talks about the effects on people of nuclear warfare. Y’know, fun stuff like skin melting, cancer, radiation poisoning, fallout….

ye gods, we were too young for that stuff. I had nuclear war nightmares well into my 20s…

in fact, I think that the nuclear nightmares stopped about 1992… November of 1992.

There’s a joke here about suddenly having a switch to nightmares about blowjobs and the Clenis, but I am too tired to make it. And the first part, about the nightmares stopping, it’s completely true. The 2nd, not so much.

Uh…Clem,

I got the same impression about Bush re Helen. It was as though he was cheering Colbert on for just wanting to get away from her. (makes you wonder how he *really* feels about Mommy Babs, to see him get so worked up by an old lady). But I also had the sense that even when he was playing the good sport, his contempt was thinly veiled. He knew he was on stage, and he knew he had to control his impulses … and he just couldn’t keep them all that buttoned up. He is not used to being forced to sit down and listen to the truth … not any truth. Bet the reason Laura was so pissed off is that she was the one who had to “deal” with it, to put his flailing little ego back together, so to speak. Not a fun ride home that night.

Man, I wish I had had the time to go back and photograph something I noticed when out walking the puppy this week – a car with an almost scratched off Bush/Cheney sticker. I wanted badly to post it with the caption “regrets, I’ve got a few!” I TRY to think of the B/C stickers I see as a public service, kind of like a Mr. Yuk sticker, but mostly they piss me off enormously. Seeing the signs of one of the Koolaid drinkers coming to their senses (or at least distancing themselves from the MISERABLE FAILURE) is much more satisfying.

Looks as if Patrick Kennedy may have a plausible explanation for his impaired driving skills:

http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/000553.php

Uh… Clem @ 113 -

Its that darn question: “Why did we invade Iraq?” Answer isn’t pretty. The bubble-boy notion they worked on not so long ago was part of it. Would never do for people to understand that the commander in chief could be so easily wrapped in a synthetic world view…

what a great diary zannie has done, Pach! i am not a kossack any longer, but please pass on my kudos.

Hmmmm. That’s funny. It seems Rumsfeld was repeating what Saddam’s foreign minister told the CIA in September 2002, the location of the chemical weapons. I’m sure that’s just a coincidence though.

patrick, I had an upstairs neighbor who was a full time anti-nuclear activist in the 80’s. Her son and my daughter were best friends and she used to take the two kids to marches all the time. I thought it was a cool experience for my daughter and she seemed to enjoy it, until she was in her 20s and began to tell you about all the nightmares those apololyptic scenarios gave her. It is amazing how clueless you are when you are trying to be a good parent.

Hmm, the link: http://www.seixon.com/blog/arc…..of_de.html

“And on that note, I’d like to give a personal shout out to Fred Hiatt, Len Downie and all my good friends at the Washington Post.”

– Don’t Forget the New York Times and pretty much everyone in Congress besides Senator Russ Feingold!

As much as I enjoy watching Bush/Cheney/Rummy in their current death spiral, I still find myself depressed by the fact that all of this should have happened years ago. None of this information is new, and yet Bush still got a majority of the vote (and the most votes ever, I believe) in 2004. What the hell took people so long?

OT, but I’m hoping someone can help me out.

What is a ‘call time manager?’

A local campaign is looking for one, and I’m sick enough of my corporate job to jump ship and work for a progressive candidate, despite the wage cut. I have a few years experience in both print/television journalism, as well as call centers (unfortunately). But I can’t determine what this position is. Google/MSN searchs turn up absolutely no information.

Any insight?

aReader- I was in a different Valley at the time of the marches, but not too far away. Further away now, but still sorta a VG, and my mom sure is, still thriving at 90 after being 3 miles from the 94 epicenter. I remember someone on a prev. thread way back (a Canadian, I believe) asking why there was such a huge and spontaneous demo in LA re immigration (the first one). You have to have lived in the area to understand it, I said. And, despite all of the comparisons between Vietnam and Iraq wars, I find it difficult to explain how things were so different then. Someone mentioned that soldiers returning from Vietnam were spat on when they came back (yet another FDL thread) and some said “no way”. But, they were, actually or metaphorically, and I’ve thought about this a lot since- trying to explain to those who didn’t witness the times how and why it was kinda the same as now re: Iraq, but really, really not. It is hard to translate the experience.

Pach: Cheers back atcha!

Correction to above post:
I should have said “– Don’t forget the New York Times and pretty much everyone in the Senate besides Russ Feingold!”

Slightly OT– I wrote Helen Thomas and commended her for taking part in Stephen Colbert’s video at the WH dinner. She wrote back, saying, “thanks for your kind words; we are in a war for three years and no one can explain why-helent.”

A heavy dose of fear and constant allusions to 9/11 will do it, Frank Probst. It’s amazing how that bullhorn moment hit people in the fear plexus. Some surrendered everything and 32% don’t even care if they get any of what they lost back– yet.

timewarp-

yah, y’know, my dad was some sort of warfare theorist both in the USAF and at the college where he taught when he wasn’t on active duty, so there were hundreds of books in the house with strategic scenarios in them. The kind of thing a precocious kid will pick up and read JUST ENOUGH OF to scare himself witless.

I remember reading about burns that wouldn’t heal and hair loss and bone thinning and shitting blood as your insides rotted out from the radiation.

I really worry that we’re doing the same thing to a generation of post-cold war kids by making them terrified of Islamofascistboogieman Hit Squads.
Do we really need another generation of kids plagued by nightmares about the sky burning?

The only upside I can see is that it’s making sure that there will be a world full of fans of Music Hates You fans (my aggressive and bombastic punk band…)

Goodnight and love

you muthafuckas and every shred of your words & hearts ROCK

(re nuke drills – i remember in 2nd grade walnut creek ca, they actually had “walk home drills” in case of nuclear attack. we kids all walked home. yeah that’s the salvation ticket. despite the idiocy, at least somebody gave some idea of a shit about humans – what a total laff now)

Seixon @ 122 -

Apparently he forgot that this afternoon. Hard to imagine forgetting that. Suppose its a medical condition? Damn, I hope not because I heard on Tweety he is winging it based on his cognitive skills.

On Colbert. He was so far from the truly black humor that is possible right now. Maybe he didn’t relish the prospect of large portions of the audience jamming their spoons though their eye sockets in an attempt to ladel out the offending part of the cerebral cortexes.

patrick!!! so, I assume you are brother of TRex, who has been immortalized at FDL for trexing (and other things I’m sure). Great admirer of TRex. Welcome, and sorry if you’ve posted before and I haven’t made the connection

“Bet the reason Laura was so pissed off is that she was the one who had to “deal†with it, to put his flailing little ego back together, so to speak. Not a fun ride home that night.”

Y’know, I hadn’t thought of that, but I think you may be right. She must have had one hell of a tantrum on her hands after that dinner was over. Shrubbie was NOT happy at all with what he heard from Colbert. Not happy a-TALL…

patrick!!! so, I assume you are brother of TRex

it is I. He’s the good looking one. I am the… uh… hmmm… one that has nice dogs and a big garden.

Yeah, I dragged him back into blogging after he took a big break.

I don’t often post here as much as I lurk, and laugh and laugh at Monk’s photoshop creations.

It is thanks to the commenters here at FDL that I have any kind of grasp on the Plame thing now that it’s gotten into it’s weird Scooter/Lufkin/crocodile spin spiral.

You folks are the best.

Andy OT, but I’m hoping someone can help me out. What is a ‘call time manager?’ #127

I noticed your query but cannot help. You might have to repost this on another thread when commenters like Siun, *ilson and others are onboard, bec. I’m sure they could answer.

Jane, based on my memory of the Vietnam era, I believe you are right. When the change came then (the Tet offensive, “I shall not seek, and will not accept,” the Chicago convention) it came with almost blinding speed, and literally nobody saw it coming, even the people who were bringing it about.

The only thing that depresses me about the memory is that the war went on for another seven years. The momentum of institutions, even dead ones, is formidable.

I never, ever, thought I’d have to go through it again. If only it were true that the second time is farce.

Still, I’m glad to hear that someone with antennae as sensitive as yours believes we’re near the turning point again. If you’re right, I’ll always remember that I heard it here first.

glad to meet you, Patrick.

I don’t want to draw conclusions that are too broad based on too little information, but there does seem to be a day of reckoning on the horizon.

This might be too broad a conclusion, but there’s definitely the scent of change in the air. The immigrant marches, the angry questions that seem to happen more often at Presidential speeches and White House press conferences, and the recognition on the part of a few prominent politicians that something’s going horribly wrong in the Middle East are the symptoms. There is real anger out there; the anger is about various things, the wasted lives, the lack of health care, the increasing poverty, the lack of real progress on homeland security despite all the money we’ve spent, and the price of gas are some of the drivers. A few of us nerds are worried about the mounting national debt, too.

I don’t know if this can last long enough for real change to occur, but it’s possible. A year ago I wouldn’t have thought so. This is starting to feel like 1968. It might not be that bad, but if things go badly enough, it could.

Grew a new thread.

timewarp,

Think you’re being too hard on yourself: “It is amazing how clueless you are when you are trying to be a good parent.” Life is hard. Much as we’d like, we can’t protect our children from the facts. Good on you for caring – hope my kids are lucky enough to meet your’s one day. Peace.

Yep, VG. He ain’t heavy. He’s my brother.

You know, it just amazes me that the Kool Aid swillers are trying to peddle that Colbert “wasn’t funny”. And Bush’s WMD jokes a couple years ago were such a laff riot, right?

Whatever.

We certainly have our work cut out for us.

glad to meet you, Patrick.

the pleasure’s all mine, though I must admit, it’s midnight here in EST land, and I had a particularly exciting day, so with that, I am going to turn in.

You folks keep fighting the good fight.

Nice to see you here.

cleter at 42~
i think either vermont or Illinois has passed their impeachment resolution already. california has about a dozen co-sponsors and it is slowly getting through commitee. my local congressman Rudi Bermudez is one of the co-signers. Thirty-seven members of Congress have signed the Conyers resolution to investigate grounds for impeachment. check: afterdowningstreet.org and impeachpac.org.

hmmm. Patrick, a progressive southerner and dog lover– you sound nice and welcome out into the lake. I say lets get rid of those nightmares once and for all.

New thread upstairs. What about Bob?

venceremos, Angie.

I’m with ya.

TRex, and Patrick, ha ha. Well, it’s EST land here too Patrick, despite my being a Valley Girl. And, if you ask TRex, the EST (EDT?) zone has further divisions into closer proximity. Now, that was really obscure, but TRex will know what I mean.

“Andy OT, but I’m hoping someone can help me out. What is a ‘call time manager?’ #127

I noticed your query but cannot help. You might have to repost this on another thread when commenters like Siun, *ilson and others are onboard, bec. I’m sure they could answer.”

Thanks, Valley Girl.

Just to clarify the record, it is an urban myth that returning soldiers were spit on during the Vietnam War.

Think of how Kerry’s service was belittled and ridiculed by republicans. Think of how Max Cleland was smeared. Think of how Jack Murtha was attacked. Who spits on whom?

Sharkbabe 134, we must be a similar age, I remember duck and cover in 1st grade. (AK and HI statehood too)

Hi Alice, thanks for the good guess. The time frame would’ve been about right for Anatomy of a Revolution. I did my deepest reading about it between 9 and 13, when I was a drummer in a Revolutionary War reenactment troop in upstate New York leading up to the bicentennial in 1976 (see “Who’s Who Of Scarily Geeky Children, ca. 1975). Hey, I went to Yorktown in 76, baby, only a couple hundred years too late. If the book was around in the early 70s there’s a decent chance I read it.

Do you still have a copy? =)

yes
I read it in college in 1973, I think it must have been published sometime in the ’60s

avenging_angel (60) — yeah, THAT particular tune by Chapman. That’s the one I need to burn to an anthology of revolutionary and inspirational tunes, music to phonebank by. Thanks for the reminder.

Jon Husband (92) — Fourth Turning’s been on my list for a while now, guess I better escalate reading. Think you might have commented on that same text at Dave Pollard’s blog, yes? Appreciate the pointer. We’re going to need all the help we can get if we are not only going to turn a real corner, but survive la deluge apres Bush.

griffon (#52): i don’t want to believe pilger. i hope it’s just propaganda………

47 Ché Pasa says:

May 4th, 2006 at 7:10 pm
Was Cheney preparing for sulking exile in Latvia?

Wha? Why did you say this? Do you know something in this regards??? Please elaborate.

mui (#67):

chomsky is a MONSTER. his books are so dense with ideas and information it staggers me. i must confess that i too have never read one from cover to cover, but i’ve gotten a lot out of the parts that i have read.

On Countdown, Richard Wolffe pointed out that Rummy’s statement that he is “not in the intelligence business” is false. The DoD has its own rather large intelligence operation.

It was, in fact, the DIA that sent Colin Powell to the UN armed with bogus intel. And yet, confronted with his mendacity by Ray McGovern, Rummy hides behind the fact that Powell believed the lies he was given by Rummy’s own crew.

OOOH LOOKY LOOKY the Seixon troll @ 128 has slithered it’s way into the lake. Go read its blog folks its always good for a laugh.

Chompsky’s thesis makes him an intercommunal ( Huey Newton) treasure for all time. It also speaks to this hot button issue of the so-called ‘ Liberal ‘ media/academic consensus. Sear on ‘ Objectivity and Liberal scholarship ‘
If you read only one thing by Noam Chompsky please read this. It’s a longish magazine article length long too – not a book. A must read.

Written in 1968 or close as well!

Any links please to Chomskies speach at West point??????? PLEASE ANYONE?

anyone think it strange the similarities between the potus and dumbsfeld events. both took a tough question, both audiences reacted to protect them, they both still their audience and say let the person speak their mind and are both once again provided a platform to basically say f-u we’re doing what we want to do… we’re the deciders.

seems fishy to me.

dougie– I have searched all over and cannot find a transcript– yet. This is all so far;

>>>>>>
The bulk of Chomsky’s remarks revolved around “Just War Theory” — a theory, he said, that modern scholarship hasn’t sufficiently explained. Scholars who discuss the theory, he said, name wars they believe are “just” without providing arguments to support the label.

Chomsky, who spoke for roughly a half-hour before taking questions from the audience, also questioned which historic military acts could be considered pre-emptive in nature. For instance, he said, before Japan’s attack on Pearl Harbor — which prompted the United States’ entry into World War II — U.S. journals were publishing reports on America preparing fighter planes that could burn Japan’s wooden cities to the ground. Should Japan’s attack, he asked, then be considered pre-emptive?

Still, he added: “Does that justify Pearl Harbor? Not in 10 million years.”

Chomsky also discussed Israel’s military conflict with Lebanon, the war in Afghanistan, Saddam Hussein’s violations of human rights, and the United States’ onetime support for the former Iraqi dictator.

http://www.thejournalnews.com/…..024/NEWS08

Go thank Ray: http://ThankYouRayMcGovern.org.

If Iran is attacked it should only be after a Declarition of War. Don’t forget our Constition requires it.

Okay, apparently all this the Secretary of Defense has been exposed as a lying sack of criminally insane sack of shit who after such a public roughing up probably couldn’t lead a high school marching band anymore hub bub is not as important as folks here may think because

A KENNEDY HAS HAD A CAR ACCIDENT!!!!!!!!!!

Don’t you folks get it? The big issue today is whether or not Patrick Kennedy received preferential treatment from the Capitol Plice or not… Okay? Got it?

and Nicole Richie realizes she’s too thin. Whatever, blah, blah, blah. The Rummy drubbing story is not even on whatever you call that list of headlines appear to the right of the Big Story on CNN’s website. Hell, the NYTimes didn’t even run the story. Instead they printed a brief AP report on page 22.

Also, you can tell Kennedy must be a really bad guy – just like his insanely liberal father – by the photo CNN has posted on its website. Somehow being shot from below like that, with horror lighting sure makes it look that way. Not that the photo editors at cnn.com would have been thinking of this. Really, I must be some terrible kind of cynic for thinking that there’s something to the way these photo editors have juxtaposed PK’s horror movie headsot with that of his victim: the innocent car bumper that was horribly mangled by the heartlessness of this liberal elitist from New England. I think it’s not too far from the election to start shouting out the lifelong offenses of his father and connecting liberal and using him as weight to which to tie supposed liberal candidates for Congress.

Me too, Veritas78. I guess the 9% of us who did not approve of the Bush administration way back then is a pretty exclusive group! The day after Bush got elected in 2000 I had a bad foreboding: now what the hell are we in for? I had no idea it was going to be so very, very bad. And my ex-box was rubbing his hands in glee, the wanker! I wonder what he thinks now.

The push back has began and I’m wildly excited for events to play out (as long as one of those “events” does not involve bombing Iran.)

Ex-BOSS I mean.

cia chief resigns amid emerging scandal. forget it

PATRICK KENNEDY ENTERING REHAB!!!!!

Don’t know if anyone mentioned Larry Johnson’s posting, he states that Ray McGovern, provided the daily intel (dpb) to Bush 41. He claims that’s why Rummy didn’t have him (Ray McGovern) thrown out because he recognized him.

Bow-tie punk on MSNBC called him, McGovern, a “heckler” on his show last night. McGovern set him straight ASAP.