Comments on: Late Nite FDL: The end of the end of racism http://firedoglake.com/2006/05/02/the-end-of-the-end-of-racism/ Firedoglake weblog Thu, 26 Nov 2009 21:11:28 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: mui http://firedoglake.com/2006/05/02/the-end-of-the-end-of-racism/#comment-89316 mui Thu, 04 May 2006 08:11:44 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/05/02/the-end-of-the-end-of-racism/#comment-89316 <p>BTW the story was not meant to exemplify anything universal.(What you are reading into is a complete mystery here) The world is more complicated that. I only threw it out as something that once shocked me as a story that demonstrates sheer insensitivity to the Jim Crow/lynching legacy.</p> BTW the story was not meant to exemplify anything universal.(What you are reading into is a complete mystery here) The world is more complicated that. I only threw it out as something that once shocked me as a story that demonstrates sheer insensitivity to the Jim Crow/lynching legacy.

]]> By: mui http://firedoglake.com/2006/05/02/the-end-of-the-end-of-racism/#comment-89313 mui Thu, 04 May 2006 07:59:10 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/05/02/the-end-of-the-end-of-racism/#comment-89313 <p>ppp</p> <p>I don’t even know where you are coming from, and I have no idea what “contradictions†you are referring to. There are none. It’s a very simple story, although the article does leave out some things. Literalism doesn’t work in trying to figure out what happened: why on one hand the art student was oblivious, and students and yes, some faculty were so shocked. Strange fruit: again don’t be so literal. I am more inclined to agree with wesgpc. It’s not my steam I am trying to get past. I am not taking you for a bigot either. Obtuse maybe, but not a bigot. It’s you who are doing all the naysaying here without even trying to understand anything</p> ppp

I don’t even know where you are coming from, and I have no idea what “contradictions†you are referring to. There are none. It’s a very simple story, although the article does leave out some things. Literalism doesn’t work in trying to figure out what happened: why on one hand the art student was oblivious, and students and yes, some faculty were so shocked. Strange fruit: again don’t be so literal. I am more inclined to agree with wesgpc. It’s not my steam I am trying to get past. I am not taking you for a bigot either. Obtuse maybe, but not a bigot. It’s you who are doing all the naysaying here without even trying to understand anything

]]> By: 4&20 blackbirds » Blog Archive » Creeps: Nativist immigration foes http://firedoglake.com/2006/05/02/the-end-of-the-end-of-racism/#comment-88985 4&20 blackbirds » Blog Archive » Creeps: Nativist immigration foes Thu, 04 May 2006 00:45:25 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/05/02/the-end-of-the-end-of-racism/#comment-88985 <p>[…] David Neiwert wrote a fascinating post about the re-emergence of racism in mainstream political discussion, racism that finds a natural home in the topic of illegal Mexican immigrants. In the post, he mentions the recent outcry about singing the “Star-Spangled Banner” in Spanish and links to a quote from John Chuckman: There are roughly thirty-million Spanish speakers in the United States. The analysis here is interesting: an immigrant singing an anthem in his own language resembles someone changing the national flag. This argument does, perhaps unintentionally, reveal the real concern: Hispanics are changing our country, and we don’t like it. […]</p> […] David Neiwert wrote a fascinating post about the re-emergence of racism in mainstream political discussion, racism that finds a natural home in the topic of illegal Mexican immigrants. In the post, he mentions the recent outcry about singing the “Star-Spangled Banner” in Spanish and links to a quote from John Chuckman: There are roughly thirty-million Spanish speakers in the United States. The analysis here is interesting: an immigrant singing an anthem in his own language resembles someone changing the national flag. This argument does, perhaps unintentionally, reveal the real concern: Hispanics are changing our country, and we don’t like it. […]

]]> By: ppp http://firedoglake.com/2006/05/02/the-end-of-the-end-of-racism/#comment-88824 ppp Wed, 03 May 2006 22:25:13 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/05/02/the-end-of-the-end-of-racism/#comment-88824 <p>I didn’t take you for a bigot, why try so hard to prove me wrong. Just wanted to point out that judging from this article <a href="http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0DXK/is_21_17/ai_68760416">http://www.findarticles.com/p/.....i_68760416</a> it only pointed out the multiple contradictions of #111. Maybe it’s a face issue, can’t see past the steam? There is so many stories that would have supported your claim, maybe you should get out more.</p> <p>(BTW. It’s just like the whiteboys not be sensitive to strange fruit lore.)<br /> Substitute this slur “whiteboys†for any other race and watch the reaction. </p> <p>My original point was racism/prejudice would still exist and does not hold to one heritage as you have so well exemplified.</p> <p>BTW “Strange Fruit†actually began as a poem by Abel Meeropol, a Jewish schoolteacher and union activist from the Bronx who later set it to music.</p> I didn’t take you for a bigot, why try so hard to prove me wrong. Just wanted to point out that judging from this article http://www.findarticles.com/p/…..i_68760416 it only pointed out the multiple contradictions of #111. Maybe it’s a face issue, can’t see past the steam? There is so many stories that would have supported your claim, maybe you should get out more.

(BTW. It’s just like the whiteboys not be sensitive to strange fruit lore.)
Substitute this slur “whiteboys†for any other race and watch the reaction.

My original point was racism/prejudice would still exist and does not hold to one heritage as you have so well exemplified.

BTW “Strange Fruit†actually began as a poem by Abel Meeropol, a Jewish schoolteacher and union activist from the Bronx who later set it to music.

]]> By: J i O http://firedoglake.com/2006/05/02/the-end-of-the-end-of-racism/#comment-88671 J i O Wed, 03 May 2006 20:03:00 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/05/02/the-end-of-the-end-of-racism/#comment-88671 <p>Well, well, well…<a href="http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/05/02/the-end-of-the-end-of-racism/#comment-88315">somebody</a> must be reading deep into the EPU’d Zone because the thread header has been changed to Late Nite FDL. </p> <p>It’s so gratifying. LOL</p> <p>–</p> Well, well, well…somebody must be reading deep into the EPU’d Zone because the thread header has been changed to Late Nite FDL.

It’s so gratifying. LOL

–

]]> By: diogenes http://firedoglake.com/2006/05/02/the-end-of-the-end-of-racism/#comment-88631 diogenes Wed, 03 May 2006 19:19:32 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/05/02/the-end-of-the-end-of-racism/#comment-88631 <p>Sadly, racism is alive and well, and affects us all. How much intellectual capital goes unrealized as we keep minorities down? How long will we visit this sin upon our children?</p> <p>Having said that, it is wrong to conflate bigotry (although bigots are among those opposing illegal immigration) with opposing illegal immigration. This is why:</p> <p>1. We progressives rightly expect and call for the rule of law - witness the hue and cry over Plamegate, illegal wiretaps, Enron, etc. How can progressives call for the rule of law in one case, and not the other? The only consistent and ethical way one can argue for amnesty is to say immigration laws are a bad decision, like Dred Scott, and must be subverted.To which I reply, do you leave your house unlocked with a sign out front “All Are Welcome”? I thought not. Moreover, name ONE other country without immigration laws, or one that doesn’t enforce them.</p> <p>2. The bait that lures illegals here in the worst collaboration of corpo-Republicans and Country Club Democrats I’ve ever seen. The corporations exploit the illegals (most corporations love a docile workforce) and water down wages for working class Americans. They don’t pass the savings along to the consumer (check out the historic increase in corporate profits at <a href="http://www.cbpp.org/9-3-04ui.htm">http://www.cbpp.org/9-3-04ui.htm</a>). CCD’s pass and sign NAFTA (which helped create the miserable conditions in Mexico to start with - <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/07/AR2006020701272.html">http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....01272.html</a>) - AND shifted American manufacturing, and now service and technology,jobs out of the country. The CCD’s are lusting after the Latino vote (which explains CCD support for amnesty - illegals can’t vote) after betraying their base - working folks. No CCD, including Schumer, Biden or Hillary, gives a rat’s ass about working folks. The corpofacist/CCD axis must be broken up, and respect for the rule of law is job ONE.</p> <p>3. Reciprocity - YOU can’t purchase property in Mexico. If YOU go to Mexico and demonstrate as seen Monday, they’ll throw YOU in prison. If they catch you illegally in Mexico (they enforce their immigration laws), you’ll either be deported or jailed.</p> <p>4. Pragmatism - We just had the largest coke bust ever in our backwater county. Three illegal immigrants were busted, and at least one is MS 13 (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1347306/posts). Are things really going so well in this country that we have the time and money to import trouble?</p> <p>Lastly, don’t tell me whitey is the bad guy - some are - and Latino’s are saints - some aren’t. It doesn’t work that way. Latino’s are my equal, and just as capable of good and evil as I am. If you think God is a Latino, you have to accept the fact the Devil may be Latino,too. Check out the history. Did they speak Spanish in what is now Mexico 1000 years ago? No, the folks illegally demonstrating in our streets are descended from imperialist war-mongers, just like we are.</p> <p>Equality’s a bitch, ain’t it?</p> Sadly, racism is alive and well, and affects us all. How much intellectual capital goes unrealized as we keep minorities down? How long will we visit this sin upon our children?

Having said that, it is wrong to conflate bigotry (although bigots are among those opposing illegal immigration) with opposing illegal immigration. This is why:

1. We progressives rightly expect and call for the rule of law – witness the hue and cry over Plamegate, illegal wiretaps, Enron, etc. How can progressives call for the rule of law in one case, and not the other? The only consistent and ethical way one can argue for amnesty is to say immigration laws are a bad decision, like Dred Scott, and must be subverted.To which I reply, do you leave your house unlocked with a sign out front “All Are Welcome”? I thought not. Moreover, name ONE other country without immigration laws, or one that doesn’t enforce them.

2. The bait that lures illegals here in the worst collaboration of corpo-Republicans and Country Club Democrats I’ve ever seen. The corporations exploit the illegals (most corporations love a docile workforce) and water down wages for working class Americans. They don’t pass the savings along to the consumer (check out the historic increase in corporate profits at http://www.cbpp.org/9-3-04ui.htm). CCD’s pass and sign NAFTA (which helped create the miserable conditions in Mexico to start with – http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..01272.html) – AND shifted American manufacturing, and now service and technology,jobs out of the country. The CCD’s are lusting after the Latino vote (which explains CCD support for amnesty – illegals can’t vote) after betraying their base – working folks. No CCD, including Schumer, Biden or Hillary, gives a rat’s ass about working folks. The corpofacist/CCD axis must be broken up, and respect for the rule of law is job ONE.

3. Reciprocity – YOU can’t purchase property in Mexico. If YOU go to Mexico and demonstrate as seen Monday, they’ll throw YOU in prison. If they catch you illegally in Mexico (they enforce their immigration laws), you’ll either be deported or jailed.

4. Pragmatism – We just had the largest coke bust ever in our backwater county. Three illegal immigrants were busted, and at least one is MS 13 (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1347306/posts). Are things really going so well in this country that we have the time and money to import trouble?

Lastly, don’t tell me whitey is the bad guy – some are – and Latino’s are saints – some aren’t. It doesn’t work that way. Latino’s are my equal, and just as capable of good and evil as I am. If you think God is a Latino, you have to accept the fact the Devil may be Latino,too. Check out the history. Did they speak Spanish in what is now Mexico 1000 years ago? No, the folks illegally demonstrating in our streets are descended from imperialist war-mongers, just like we are.

Equality’s a bitch, ain’t it?

]]> By: Daryl http://firedoglake.com/2006/05/02/the-end-of-the-end-of-racism/#comment-88598 Daryl Wed, 03 May 2006 18:59:43 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/05/02/the-end-of-the-end-of-racism/#comment-88598 <p>I never underestimate the power of the Southern Strategy to rally white people, no matter what their political leanings. </p> <p>What made Reagan overwhelmingly popular? Reagan <b>democrats</b>. They knew what he was talking about in that coded language; welfare queen, bloc vote, reverse discrimination, evils of the Great Society, etc. </p> <p>Repubs are going to demagogue this issue we know that but the problem is they’re only appealing to what’s already there. </p> <p>The Chinese Exclusion Act can be revived and renamed anytime.</p> I never underestimate the power of the Southern Strategy to rally white people, no matter what their political leanings.

What made Reagan overwhelmingly popular? Reagan democrats. They knew what he was talking about in that coded language; welfare queen, bloc vote, reverse discrimination, evils of the Great Society, etc.

Repubs are going to demagogue this issue we know that but the problem is they’re only appealing to what’s already there.

The Chinese Exclusion Act can be revived and renamed anytime.

]]> By: JimboJones http://firedoglake.com/2006/05/02/the-end-of-the-end-of-racism/#comment-88555 JimboJones Wed, 03 May 2006 18:21:56 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/05/02/the-end-of-the-end-of-racism/#comment-88555 <p>“Some of this is plain old ignorant provincialism. Americans are the only people I know who are positively insulted when someone tries to speak to them in another language.”</p> <p>You must not know any Frenchmen!</p> “Some of this is plain old ignorant provincialism. Americans are the only people I know who are positively insulted when someone tries to speak to them in another language.”

You must not know any Frenchmen!

]]> By: mui http://firedoglake.com/2006/05/02/the-end-of-the-end-of-racism/#comment-88480 mui Wed, 03 May 2006 16:51:08 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/05/02/the-end-of-the-end-of-racism/#comment-88480 <p>Before I git my arse out the door and stop procrastinating. Very easy to do because I like FDL. I’ll say Ben Franklin sounds right on.</p> Before I git my arse out the door and stop procrastinating. Very easy to do because I like FDL. I’ll say Ben Franklin sounds right on.

]]> By: wesgpc http://firedoglake.com/2006/05/02/the-end-of-the-end-of-racism/#comment-88471 wesgpc Wed, 03 May 2006 16:43:02 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/05/02/the-end-of-the-end-of-racism/#comment-88471 <p>A tree decorated with nooses is a very powerful and very strong statement of something. Hard to believe anyone, particlarly a white person in US who knows anything about history, who claims they don’t see a racial aspect.</p> <p>I am against simplifying racism and bigotry. Benjamin Franklin thought that one source of it was that it is very difficult for the oppressor to forgive the oppressed, or the person who wronged another to forgive the one who was wronged. Every subsequent transaction that implies equality reminds the oppressor of his/her past sins, which leads to attempts at denial of original wrong, or subliminal attempts to justify it. Franklin thought it was more difficult for guilty party to put aside past wrongdoings, if the guilty party had any conscience. I think this kind of white guilt may explain some of the weird psychology of whites wrt to current institutional racism in the US.</p> <p>Ben Franklin: father of white guild. We can expect a WSJ editorial soon: “It all went wrong with Franklin, liberal bleeding heart wimp and father of that evil white guilt.â€</p> A tree decorated with nooses is a very powerful and very strong statement of something. Hard to believe anyone, particlarly a white person in US who knows anything about history, who claims they don’t see a racial aspect.

I am against simplifying racism and bigotry. Benjamin Franklin thought that one source of it was that it is very difficult for the oppressor to forgive the oppressed, or the person who wronged another to forgive the one who was wronged. Every subsequent transaction that implies equality reminds the oppressor of his/her past sins, which leads to attempts at denial of original wrong, or subliminal attempts to justify it. Franklin thought it was more difficult for guilty party to put aside past wrongdoings, if the guilty party had any conscience. I think this kind of white guilt may explain some of the weird psychology of whites wrt to current institutional racism in the US.

Ben Franklin: father of white guild. We can expect a WSJ editorial soon: “It all went wrong with Franklin, liberal bleeding heart wimp and father of that evil white guilt.â€

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