
Thanks to all the commenters here and at The Next Hurrah, I’m working on a new timeline for Rove’s testimony before the grand jury. It should be up soon. In the mean time, Jeff in the comments has evolved the best theory about what Rove is probably trying to claim to Fitzgerald:
Here’s my unified theory of how Luskin is attempting to thread a very narrow needle with his story about Viveca Novak. Luskin says the conversation with VNovak happened in January 2004 (or even as early as October 2003, according to Newsweek, which would make it as early as Rove’s initial contacts with FBI investigators). This enables Luskin to argue that Rove would have been crazy to try to hide his knowledge of his July 11 2003 conversation with Cooper when he testified in February 2004, thus showing that Rove testified in good faith to no recollection of contact with journalists regarding Plame other than with Bob Novak.
However, Luskin also has to explain the fact that Team Rove only found and handed over the Rove-Hadley email documenting Rove’s conversation with Cooper in October 2004, just as it looked like Cooper himself was going to testify. On October 7 2004 Judge Hogan denied Cooper’s motion to quash the new subpoena he had received from Fitzgerald on September 13 2004. Cooper got this subpoena – and this is key to my theory – only after he had completed his testimony in August concerning his contact with Libby, when Fitzgerald discovered, to his surprise, that Cooper had a source earlier than Libby.
So the question is, if Luskin is claiming that VNovak alerting him to the buzz at TIME that Rove was a source for Cooper played a role in prompting the search for and discovery of the Rove-Hadley email, why didn’t that search and discovery happen immediately after Luskin’s conversation with VNovak in early 2004?
My guess is that Luskin is arguing that Rove was confident in February 2004 that he was not a source for Cooper. But when the news hit in September 2004 that Cooper had been resubpoenaed, Luskin and Rove suddenly thought back to what VNovak had said and had their confidence in Rove’s recollection shaken, and said to themselves, “We better check thoroughly through the records to see if we can find any evidence of a Rove-Cooper contact on Plame or Wilson or what have you.” (Key to this theory is the claim that between the news coverage and the available public court records, Rove and Luskin would have known enough about Cooper’s new subpoena to react this way.) This would explain why the search for the email and its discovery did not happen until some time in the month between the middle of September and the middle of October, when Rove went back to the grand jury.
The main problem with this theory is that it really is threading a narrow needle on the question of what motivated Team Rove to do a search through the records: it had to do with what was happening with Cooper, but wasn’t motivated by fear of Cooper testifying. Cooper’s new subpoena simply served to make VNovak’s alert more vivid, and it was that alert that was the real cause of the search for records, the finding of the email, and Rove changing his testimony in October 2004.
The question is whether that is a fatal problem for my theory, or for Rove, who’s got nothing better.
It all sounds more and more like an episode of Law and Order. But I’m loving it.
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Fitz, baby.
Fitzbert!
tonight Schuster reported: KARL ROVE’S ATTORNEYS SAY THEY’VE BEEN TOLD BY FITZGERALD THAT NO DECISION WILL BE MADE FOR AT LEAST ANOTHER WEEK.
Please, please, please make it the Fitzo de Mayo. The original Cinquo de Mayo celebrates when indigenous people expelled Monarchist French from their territories…We too need to reclaim our democracy!
RICO!
Rico with depraved indifference ( nod to ‘ Law and Order fans ) then 25th ammendment move. Red queen to center of the board – no mercy…no prisoner’s.
This is a gang of Narco-terrorist’s sending arm’s in and taking drug’s out. It’s classic RICO territory. The only hitch is the head of the FBI covered up Iran/contra. Better call in Interpol.
The simplest explanation is usually the best. Rove and Luskin “discovered” the email just before Cooper’s testimony rather than earlier because Rove was now in jeopardy of being exposed as having lied to the grand jury.
*ilson, I’m with you. That would indeed be a perfect date. Of course Fitz is gonna do what he needs to do legally w/out regard to our historical preferences . . . but we can always hope.
I disagree. On “Law & Order”, it’s never immediately obvious who the bad guys are .
*ilson-
Do you May 5th as your date for the “Bush’s poll number hitting the 20’s”?
“Please, please, please make it the Fitzo de Mayo.”
Or El Sinko de Rovo.
OT – also from RawStory
http://www.rawstory.com/news/2….._0501.html
WTH is going on when someone like Mike Scheuer has to go on AUSTRALIAN television to talk about al-Zarqawi and how he has been handled?
But we have pundits like Tucker Carlson being paid to opine here on a daily basis?
Colbert only touched the tip of the iceberg.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Good luck parsing Rove. I still wonder how timing on some of the Abramoff matters ties in with his calls on the Plame front. I gotta think that someone has cut a deal with Ralston and it seems more likely coming from the Abramoff end of the table.
Sufficient to the day, though. I’m more rattled right now by intervention into the EFF/ATT case to yank the puppy’s chain with State Secrets allegations; but I’ll be watching to see what you guys come up with.
Oh, and I’d like to restate my wild-ass guess that Plame went to Niger with Wilson. Wilson has been involved in investigations of Iran before, and it looks like his wife was working on WMDs and Iran. I’ll bet they worked as a team in Niger. Wilson was drinking mint tea and apologizing the whole time for Plame. “Sorry about the wife. One of the hazards of marrying a blonde, I guess. She just LOVES taking pictures with that silly camera of hers. And I’m sure she didn’t even notice that ‘Restricted Access’ sign.”
From Rawstory:
http://www.rawstory.com/news/2….._0501.html
Intelligence sources say Valerie Wilson was part of an operation three years ago tracking the proliferation of nuclear weapons material into Iran. and the sources allege that when Mrs. Wilson’s cover was blown, the administration’s ability to track Iran’s nuclear ambitions was damaged as well.
Interesting theory. The other question is, does Fitz have the hard evidence (testimony/emails) to turn the inconsistencies into a perjury/obstruction charge.
Me, I’m hoping for the whole enchilada (perjury, obstruction, conspiracy, treason) to be served up on Cinco de Mayo. If God and Fitz have a sense of humor…now, THAT would be funny.
Let’s see — if there’s another week before Team Fitz has reviewed the particulars and prepared a true bill of indictment for the Grand Jury to consider on May 10th; then Fitz could hold a press conference — on the 11th?
Just sayin’ . . .
Mary says:
May 1st, 2006 at 3:24 pm
How did you find the Raw Story link about what was just reported on Hardball in your post on the previous thread? It’s not on Raw Story’s home page.
*ilson- “no decision” on what? Target letter, another GJ appearance…??
the Schuster Plame/Iran story has hit the DCCC blog http://www.dccc.org/stakeholde…..04660.html
this could be truly ‘explosive’ (non-nuclear, one hopes)
Valley Girl and ck -
Another week from when?
OT but enjoy;
http://www.theglobeandmail.com…..ional/home
Jeff has a very good explication of Rove’s predicament, and probable strategy. But this part will absolutely not convince Fitzgerald, and it’s highly unlikely to convince the Grand Jury:
“Luskin is arguing that Rove was confident in February 2004 that he was not a source for Cooper.”
I think this is properly worded, because that’s as good as Rove and Luskin can do. But this response plainly skirts the real issue. I doubt Fitz asked specifically, “were you a source for Matt Cooper?” The question was more likely, “Did you have any contact at all with any reporters other than Bob Novak about Valerie Plame Wilson?”
For Rove to have answered “no,” or “I don’t remember,” AFTER having been alerted to just such a conversation by VNovak, via Luskin, doesn’t just strain credulity. It explodes it.
Stephen – it was there for me. ??? Under MSNBC Confirms … at the top in Red?
Recent activities by Rove and his political apparatus seem to indicate he sees his legal jeopardy in the Patrick Fitzgerald investigation as merely another political campaign. His removal from his position as Policy Advisor, while widely viewed as meaningless…myself included…may not be entirely accurate. Logically, it’s a good move by the President in that it puts Rove where he is best suited…running campaigns.
At the same time, Karl Rove may not fully realize it yet, but his longstanding policy influence over George Bush may be waning. Granted, it may be a decision of necessity…but more importantly, it may be recognition by the instrument that the player has lost his magic touch. With regards to the Fitzgerald investigation, Karl Rove appears to be in full campaign mode and, at the same time, fully unaware that it may in fact be his last.
read more here:
http://www.thoughttheater.com
Jane:
That maybe gets Rove out of the charge of lying to the GJ: provided Fitz has not established independent evidence to show Rove only came out when it was clear Coop outed him. But the charge of leaking classified info would still remain? And, in addition, conspiracy?
Mary says:
May 1st, 2006 at 3:44 pm
Yes, it is there now, all right, but it wasn’t shortly after I looked at the Raw Story home after you mentioned that the story was there. My browser might not have updated Raw Story’s home page quickly enough.
new thread – Plame/Iran
Is it possible that Fitzgerald already had the Rove-Hadley e-mail about Cooper from Hadley?
Congrats for David Schuster. Next new territory… “Brewster-Jennings”? This complex dimension of Plame’s work deserves to become more well-known, and analysed.
PS – Best case: Wed. = Rove sealed indictment; Thurs. = press conference for Friday announced at Fitz Web site; Fri. = Rove indictment announced, and Fitz press conf.
On another front, Caitlin Flanagan (antifeminist extraordinaire) apparently defects to the rethug party…. claims she takes all Dem housewives with her…
http://www.time.com/time/magaz…..24,00.html
Alvord @ 5
Said it best; I’ve read the post twice but frankly find it impenetrable (tired, it’s late here).
I don’t see the motivations/recalling of earlier warnings, etc. holding up over time. Sounds too theoretical. Rove just pulled out all that stuff each time he was faced with the noose. He’s obviously walking a thin line on perjury and obstruction.
Guess I’m a lousy Plameologist/legal strategist but these would be tactical indictments; where are the indictments for the original crime/leaks? If bringing them out now will jeopardize the Libby prosecution, then didn’t Fitz then make a big strategic error in indicting Libby when he did? Or did he have to, simply to get this far with Rove, and assumedly others?
the problem i continue to have with the “it was sooooooo long ago i forgot who i talked to” defense that both libby and rove seem to want to use, is that the flashpoint for their memories should be the day novak outed ms. plame and the scandal began, not the months later when they were finally questioned by the fbi. it is pathetic that they keep trying to pretend that they were not prompted to remember anything until so much later considering the issue was big news from the start. from the day of her outing it is only a matter of weeks (or days) from the time they had the conversations with reporters, not the months they keep trying to cliam.
There are a couple things dangling:
1) Did Rove actually change his testimony, or is he sticking with “I forgot I talked to Cooper, even after other people said so, and even after I found the Hadley email.”?
2) *IF* Rove changed his Cooper testimony, did he also change his R Novak testimony? Did he have to say, “oh yeah, now I remember I said something to Bob.”?
3) Is the essence of Rove’s testimony “I am of the state of mind that my recollection at the time of testimony to the G/J, to the FBI, and even to Ashcroft (and Scottie McClellan!) is that I learned about Plame in a context whereby it seemed her identity was widely known to reporters”? I agree with e.c. #30 that the flashpoint for remembering is the day of the Novak article (or maybe the day Rove told Russert–or Matthews–that Plame was “fair game”).
If this is the essence of his testimony, but no evidence (emails, reporter testimony that no one knew of Plame until after Novak’s article, testimony from cooperating officials, etc) supports his “state of mind,” then Rove’s defense has to be flawed memory.
Rove: “I have no recollection of talking to reporters until AFTER the Novak article, and my sense that Plame’s identity was widely known must be from that “after novak” period…I seem to have forgotten who my real sources were, and substituted my memories from a few days later. Gee, to this very day, my best recollection is just a blur. And to think I’m Bush’s brain, and the whole Republican party is counting on me to keep control of the House and Senate in November.”
Or something like that. I’d love to know what Fitz’s evidence is.
The only problem I have is that we have no way of knowing if the Hadley email is authentic. It would be interesting to know if anyone had to testify regarding White House IT protocols, or email archiving techniques, etc. Because it would seem fair to assume that someone, perhaps a grand juror, might have asked “is the Hadley email authentic?” Especially since we know that Cooper said he did not discuss “welfare reform” with Rove. It is suspicious that the Hadley email popped up so fortuitously. It is so suspicious that it makes me suspect the entire provenance of the email.
I don’t think Rove would think twice about back dating a phony email. If anyone in IT is colluding with Rove, it could be a serious problem for the prosecution, especially since most of the Justic Department and FBI agents are used to living within an antiquated computer environment.
It worries me when so many of the prevailing theories as to what Rove is up to seem to accept the authenticity of the email as a given. I see no reason to accept that premise, given the types of critters we are talking about.
I don’t have the mind for all these twists and turns with dates, but I do pay attention to things I can see, and the other night, did it seem to you that Valerie Plame was so self-confident, and her husband so relaxed, that they might be aware of much more than we regarding the investigation? And didn’t Wilson testify to FBI and GJ? Did she? Would we know that?
I think Fitz is aiming for the very top and treason, ultimately. That’s where the facts seem to be taking us.
RE: Jeff’s comment in Threading the Needle, in which he said,
“This [Luskin’s late 2003, or early 2004 meeting with Viveca Novak] enables Luskin to argue that Rove would have been crazy to try to hide his knowledge of his July 11 2003 conversation with Cooper when he testified in February 2004, thus showing that Rove testified in good faith to no recollection of contact with journalists regarding Plame other than with Bob Novak.”
**************
Experienced federal prosecutors like Fitzgerald are masters at using the grand jury to lock witnesses into their versions of what transpired. I find it difficult to believe that Fitzgerald didn’t ask Rove to identify each reporter with whom he discussed Wilson and Plame. In fact, I believe that he would have specifically asked Rove if he had a conversation with Cooper and it appears that Rove denied it until the last possible moment when he realized that Cooper was going to testify. Only then did he produce his 7/11/2003 email to Hadley regarding his conversation with Cooper.
I can’t imagine a good reason for Rove and Luskin to believe that a trial jury will believe Rove, if he testifies that he had forgotten about his conversation with Cooper when he was interviewed by the FBI in September 2003, and when he testified at the grand jury in February, 2004. Luskin would have told Rove about Viveca Novak’s comment regarding Cooper naming Rove as one of his sources for his article in the WAPO on July 17,2003. That would have jogged Rove’s memory that he did speak to Cooper, assuming that he had forgotten about it, which I don’t believe for a moment.
It’s certainly possible that Rove lied to Luskin about whether he recalled speaking to Cooper. It wouldn’t be the first, or last time that a client withheld information from his lawyer. Perhaps Luskin accepted him at his word, which never is a good idea with Rove, and Rove decided to risk not correcting his FBI interview and grand jury testimony because he believed that Cooper would keep his lips sealed. That would have been reckless wishful thinking. Yet, it might explain the long period of time that passed between Luskin’s meeting with Viveca Novak and Rove’s. “Oops, I’m awful sorry, but I just remembered something important and here’s this email that I found. Pretty cool, Fitz, huh?”
Rove was continuing to be his ever so manipulative self and have his cake and eat it too by waiting out Cooper to see what he would do. That he decided to take such a long-shot chance with so much at stake, provides a reliable indication of how desperate Rove was to prevent his email to Hadley from falling into Fitzgerald’s hands.
PelMel (26) raises an interesting possibility: Is it possible that Fitzgerald already had the Rove-Hadley e-mail about Cooper from Hadley?
But regardless of when Fitz came into possession of the email, I cling to the hope that he retains a paper trail of the search terms initially used to comb through Rove’s email archives. I have always found it singularly implausible that a search for the name “Wilson” would fail to turn up a message that contained the name “Wilson”.
Just sayin…
I forgot to mention that the old, my-client-is-too-smart-to-have-done-that defense won’t retain much vitality in Rove’s case when Fitzgerald responds with, “The grand jury didn’t accuse Rove of being a smart criminal. It accused him of being a criminal.”
Another delicious possibility is that various testimony exposed Andy Card leveraging the 12+ hour headstart afforded by Ashcroft.
I don’t know of any evidence to suggest that Card encouraged Rove to do a little pre-emptive sweeping of his hard disk before “officially” notifying WH staff of the investigation, but with this administration, it’s almost impossible to believe he didn’t.
Didn’t Card step down right around the time Patrick got back to town?
Mr Blifil >”…It would be interesting to know if anyone had to testify regarding White House IT protocols, or email archiving techniques, etc…”
One would hope that Fitz et al would cover those bases (know the trail of evidence etc) early on.
Seeing as how computers, electronics & software are in my area of expertise I`ll just note in passing that all this behavior (Rove et al) took place in an environment where the NSA (and probably other similar agencies) had been tasked by the NCA (National Command Authority) to do their intelligence behavior w/o any legal restraints to speak of and it is VERY LIKELY that much of this (ReThug) back & forth electron based behavior was “captured” in the the very wide (super duper double wide ??) electronic net being used to watch for those “terrorists” post 9/11 & stored for future “investigation” – remember the (John Bolton) NSA intercepts the White House refused to turn over to Congress ?
Pause a moment and think about that; it IS possible that somewhere in all that data stored in the intelligence community (”poison fruit” to be sure) there are very detailed records of the details of behavior of these folks, ALL OF THEM while they went about their “business”
Now getting to those records might be next to impossible but not impossible
Imagine the potential
“Lack of awareness of the basic unity of organism and environment is a serious and dangerous hallucination.” – Alan Watts