One of the many fine lessons we learn from our upstanding wingnut betters is that perjury, obstruction of justice and false statement are only crimes if they are being committed by Bill Clinton’s cock. Unless there is an underlying crime, the law’n'order brigade think it is perfectly okay to disregard the law and say any such shit as might invade your head at the moment.
But let us not get lost in the dark forest of wingnut talking points (or perhaps more aptly the "toothpick village.") Let’s take a look at the words of Judge Thomas Hogan, appointed by St. Ronald Reagan, as he looks back on the decision he made to compel testimony from Judith Miller and Matt Cooper:
"Blood was spreading in the water," Hogan said. "The sharks were gathering. It’s typical Washington politics, except that this involved the commission of a crime."
While the White House sought to deny Wilson’s accusations, the identity of his wife — CIA officer Valerie Plame — was leaked to reporters, apparently in violation of a law designed to protect covert operatives.
I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, 55, Vice President Cheney’s former top aide, has been charged with perjury and obstruction of justice for lying to FBI agents and a federal grand jury about when he learned of Plame’s identity and when he subsequently discussed it to reporters.
Hogan, who oversees grand juries, got involved in the CIA leak investigation when Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald sought to compel several reporters to reveal their sources and what they were told about Plame.
Fitzgerald tried to get evidence he needed elsewhere, Hogan said, describing the prosecutor as "dogged" and "one of the best I have seen."
Only Miller, then working for the Times, and Time magazine reporter Matthew Cooper refused to cooperate with Fitzgerald, saying they did not believe that the waivers of their confidentiality agreements with sources were granted voluntarily.
Eventually, Cooper’s source — White House adviser Karl Rove — provided a waiver that satisfied the reporter. But Miller wasn’t, and she refused to name her source, who turned out to be Libby.
Hogan, an appointee of President Reagan, said he rejected imposing a fine on Miller because he did not believe anything other than jail would get her to obey his order to testify. She spent 85 days behind bars before Libby gave her a waiver she thought was sufficient.
Miller wasn’t an innocent bystander, Hogan said. "She was an actor in the commission of a crime," he said. "She was part of the transfer of information that was a crime."
The judge said he did not enjoy sending Miller to jail. But he said the law is clear: Reporters do not have a special privilege under the First Amendment to keep their sources secret, especially when a crime has been committed.
I’m going to take a perilous leap here and say Judge Hogan believes there was an underlying crime committed.
Remind me what the underlying crime in Whitewater was? I must have a very bad memory.



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Fitz.
Holy Cow!
Remind me what the underlying crime in Whitewater was? I must have a very bad memory.
Being a Democratic president. Duh.
A perilous leap indeeed.
All Fitz, all the time.
See! I can’t form a thought till I can bounce off comments.
But seeing that penis head again threw me off.
What the hell is that thing on his head? Is it some sort of marital aid? Is this young Republican preparing to have coitus with a hooker? The Republicans like that, you know. The hookers.
prefer to lurk but that first paragraph ranks as one of the best ever…
Goodness gracious, that picture gave me the heebie jeebies!
Jane launches a bolshoi-seeking missile and blows the Goopers out of the night sky!
Swopa got EPU’d.
“From the Department of Reverse Psychology”
Yeah, Jane. Yep. I called this one in the last thread.
Should be frigging obvious to all but the serious Kool-aid drinkers by this time.
I’m not a lawyer, but can a cock actualy commit perjury? How exactly would…never mind.
Of course there was an underlying crime. Tenet, as lame as his support for Bush was, wouldn’t have made the complaint which initiated all of this had there not been an “underlying crime.” Plame’s network was compromised and was probably subsequently rolled right up. That is a substantial crime, on a par with the Rosenbergs, as far as I’m concerned.
Hmm..didn’t Kay Bailey Huthinson claim that perjury was only a “technicality” when Libby got indicted, but was ready to put Clinton in Alcatraz for perjury. These guys can bend light as well as the law – explains the whole NSA eavesdropping thing also.
The underlying crime in Whitewater had to do with whether or not the Clintons did anything illegal while they were losing money on a land deal.
The Rethugs have certainly cocked up everything.
EPU’d, but def On topic
What was with bow-tie Carlson saying over and over “no crime was committed†tonite, without disclosing his glaring conflict of interest?
Such disgraceful “reportingâ€. He and the “hot-shots†were a joke.
I say we make his life hell.
Irony is a cruel thing. Not as cruel as being forced to wear a giant penis on your head in front of a nationwide television audience, but cruel nonetheless.
Bobby G.
I’m working in England right now (almost 6AM here) and I’ve got some amazing American stuff called Cinderella. I googled it and it’s just like they say. God bless the global village.
From the last thread:
http://www.firedoglake.com/200…..ment-83725
Oh, Urban Pirate. don’t you think actually BEING Tucker Carlson is hell enough?
My big question: Do we think Fitz is just going to indict Rove for perjury/obstruction, or is he going to throw out a whole bunch of conspiracy charges, too? Underlying crime, indeed.
That thing on his head is supposed to be an elephant’s trunk, I think. Looks like a Republican frat party. What threw me is that photo of a pig in the upper left-hand corner of the page. When I first glanced at it, I saw only the nostrils and my brain, such as it is, “saw” eyes instead. It took me some seconds to re-construct the picture into a pig.
Once again, I’ve spent a few hours reading the day’s threads and comments. What a bonanza this week! Thank you, all–Christy, Jane, and everyone who contributed.
harry -
Enjoy.
I vacationed in UK and France in 2004 (Saw Lance win le Tour #6 in Paris). I see that big Virgin 747 goin’ outa here every afternoon from Vegas to Gatwick (my office is close to McCarran). Want to go jump back on it.
BobbyG — yes you did. Thanks much.
Cujo359
I don’t think he’s being forced. He seems to be rather enjoying the giant penis.
What should be a crime – but I can’t find a statute – is the knowing mispresentation of facts by a rep. of the USG. There would be the intel sources and methods exception, but that should be it.
Doesn’t seem like too much to ask of the congresscritters.
dana @ 9:43 pm (#24) – I suspect it’s from the Republican convention – note the balloons in the upper right corner. It just looks like the guy’s wearing a penis on his head because that’s what we expect him to be wearing. It’s just another example of how our preconceptions affect what we observe.
tryggth says:
April 28th, 2006 at 9:47 pm
What should be a crime – but I can’t find a statute – is the knowing mispresentation of facts by a rep. of the USG.
_____
I forget the exact Patriot Act section (501 et seq?), but knowingly misrepresenting facts as they pertain to anything contrued as part of the “war on terrah” is a crime thereunder.
The juxtaposition of that photograph and Jane’s “are only crimes if they are being committed by Bill Clinton’s cock” made me spit beer onto my cell phone. I love FDL so much.
So, ah, just got in and I am a little sleepy. But, it sure looks like Byron York is letting the faithful know that Karl “Rasputin” Rove is in trouble and he is prepping them for the fall.
Is that about right?
-GSD
Ah, the balloons. Thanks, cujo359. Makes those cheesehead hats (which only tourists wear) in WI look tasteful (word choice for punaise).
BobbyG @ 30 -
The irony would be delicious.
John Casper, if you’re still around – I was able to post a link to Jane’s letter to Howie Kurtz on the WaPo blog. Don’t know why it didn’t work earlier.
Why hasn’t anyone said “dickhead” yet?
dickhead
Valley Girl @ 9:55 pm (#36) – See my comment #29.
Or, considering the ears, “flying dickhead”?
tryggth says:
April 28th, 2006 at 9:53 pm
BobbyG @ 30 -
The irony would be delicious.
_____
Yes, indeed. I recall reading that entire section once.
OK, found it:
“Chapter 97 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following:…”
801(a)(7) “[Whoever willfully]… conveys or causes to be conveyed false information, knowing the information to be false, concerning an attempt or alleged attempt being made or to be made, to do any act which would be a crime prohibited by this subsection…”
Cleter, I mean WTF? Someone needs to smack his smirk right off his face.
Him, Noron, and that Halloway girl, and Scarborough cackling like this is all a joke.
Joe was the only one taking it somewhat seriously. The other 3? Holy hell, how they got jobs is beyond me. Idiots.
And this right after H. Dean was on, and they just crush everything he tried it get across. I was (am) livid.
What am I missing in this part of the world? Anything funny happen today? I could use a laugh. I see Jane’s being demure once again. :)
*btw, I’m not a grumpy old f*ck, I just play one on FDL.
Cujo- yes, I saw that, but you didn’t actually come right out with it.
thanks, dana.
Leopold is saying next week, when other published reports say Luskin was told nothing for at least 10 days – those don’t reconcile. Leopold was also indicating meetings LAST week with the GJ, but although he and Blumenthal mentioned them, it doesn’t seem as if they took place – unless they were so secret no on else could find out about them.
Some of the substance of what he has is probably correct, but so far the details have been a bit spongey. Whatever they do with Rove, good luck with it is all I can say. Via the Libby filings, the case has already walked back the NIE leaking (I don’t buy that it is declasssificaiton for all the old reasons) to the President, specifically. Expecting more than that – I think we are so scandal fatigued people forget what a shocker that one was – is expecting a lot. It would be nice, but really a lot has already been handed over on a siler platter. GWB authorized selective dissemeintation of classified information to pre-selected media stenographers to skew the reasons for war. Not a nice man.
Valley Girl @ 10:01 pm (#42) – And rob the audience of that “Ahah!” moment?
How do you get that angle for that picture?
My my, that hat was made for Rush’s rethug gang sign, eh? Calling Dr. Ruth!
JC, you were very close to the name you were trying to recall in last thread. It was Harry Shep.
Modest proposal: Out with the phrase “…outed Valerie Plame.â€
“Outed†sounds prankish. “Outed†sounds like something within the bounds of hardball politics. “Outed†is doing Barb Comstock’s work for her.
We need to start using language that matches the severity of the crime.
“Valerie Plame was betrayed to the nation’s enemies.â€
Or “This administration passed secrets to the terrorists.†That’s what the Repubs would be screaming if the situation were reversed.
Out with “outed.†In with “betrayed.â€
Thanks for the reference. Will look at it in the morning to see what is in scope. But am fading…
Thanks FDL and pups for your energy and diligence. Rover is going down. Shuster didn’t say “tone of the questions”, he said Rover was surprised by the questions. Big stuff coming down…
So off to sleep to dream of the answer to the question troubling Cheney: “If they could bury those Abramoff pictures, why could they bury the one of me sleeping?” Sort of imagine it as a “thought bubble” in the picture of him sleeping.
Mary- is that a rhetorical question?
check this out from the last thread, WAY cool:
_____
Pretzel Boy Must Go says:
April 28th, 2006 at 10:03 pm
For what it’s worth, I am an attorney (civil not criminal) but I recently represented a party who was also involved in a Federal matter with criminal claims. He was called to a GJ as a witness and when he appeared, given a target letter at the door.
The indictment and arrest did not take place for 4 months. So a target letter can be served without an indictment following immediately. Fitz may have a habit of indicting right away, but at least in VA, it is obviously not required in Fed court. Given Roves’ so called demotion, he had to have had notice of his 5th appearance at the time it was announced, further at the time Fitz told Luskin that he wanted another GJ appearance, Luskin must have had “the talk†with Rove in which he has been told to get his financial affairs in order and get ready for the bottom to fall out. Even if it didn’t, it would be malpractice to not discuss this. I do defend attorneys who get sued and no defense atty would avoid the talk (some times called the hammer up against the head talk) to make sure they know the facts and can’t turn around and claim they never knew how bad it was. Given the spin, Luskin has got to be writing a letter after every press conference saying “yes I said….but as we discussed, it is more likely that….â€
So ignore the spin, Rove has heard from Luskin to expect the worse.
_____
YES! Thank you. I had to share that with the tribe.
Iowa, you’re probably right.
The Pugs are just sooooo cute w/ words. Labels and branding are key to “framing” I guess. I have to admit, it’s hard to think like a scheming dickwad.
p.s. if not- kneepads?
Iowa Bored @ 10:04 pm (#47) – I’m of an age where “outed” sounds like more than a prank. “Betrayed” might be a better term, but “outed” has some serious meaning for some folks – like your family doesn’t speak to you and you get harassed or worse.
I hardly need to say it again, but Fitzgerald notes somewhere in one of his filings that the crime of outing a CIA agent did occur. However, either he lacks enough information to establish who is responsible for the actual leak, or for legal reasons he can’t prosecute the person actually responsible for the underlying crime (i.e, Mr. Fraudulent), or else he is worried that the AG will effectively shut down his case if he gets involved with areas where the government can claim the prosecution can’t continue because of security concerns. This last point is a real possibility, for Judge Walton has apparently sided with the government before on cases involving government secrecy.
If Fitz limits his charges to the coverup, however, the security issues can be sidestepped.
The picture of Elephant boy reminds me of that Mary Tyler Moore show where Chuckles the Clown, dressed as a giant gobber peanut, is accidently killed by a rogue elephant who tried to ’shuck’ him. I never laughed so hard when someone at the funeral eulogized Chuckles by saying, “A little song, a little dance, a little seltzer in your pants.”
I guess Fitz is going to provide Rovesputin with “a little seltzer in his pants.”
Well, at least sleeves-rolled-up, on-the-scene Bush assured Brian Williams this morning on NBC/Today that New Orleans would be “ready in time for the 100 year flood plain.” So, at least there’s some good news.
;)
Frigging moron.
Shez, thank you in 46.
Another day, another Republican with a fetid cadaver of corruption unearthed from the under the statehouse floorboards.
Missouri’s Matt “Smoke-a” Blunt may have some esplainin’ to do.
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/…..455281.htm
Given the above discussions (which occurred while I was writing my comment):
Or perhaps instead of “outed,” I should have said “treasonously revealed the name of a covert agent.”
OK, Shez in 47, thanks. Sorry about that.
Hogan’s Heroes
“couldn’t”
See what I mean about fading? Nite
Iowa Bored,
Betrayed Valarie Plame sounds like a crime, not a sexual expose’. Good Point.
Austin Powers III (?):
“m-m-mm-m-mmm-mo-moh-m-mm-m-mo-mole”
vs
“d-dd-d-i-di-dickhead”
Interesting OT-
MIAMI (MSNBC)- Rumors of immigration roundups have prompted thousands of illegal immigrants to stay home this week and are making some afraid to participate in a national immigration protest planned for Monday.
Though federal immigration officials said they were unfounded, rumors of random sweeps were rampant from coast to coast Friday, prompting thousands of immigrants to stay home from work, take their children out of school and avoid church.
The absences caused the rumors to build, as some thought their missing friends and co-workers had been arrested. Construction and agriculture were among the industries most affected…
_____
We estimate that at LEAST 1/4th of our construction workforce here in Vegas are illegals.
Dunno. If MX decrims possession, I may cash out and buy down in Ajijic. Maybe open a winery, learn Spanish. And, save a little plot out back…
;)
Oops, Cabernet typo…
Cujo in 35, thanks very much for trying. Maybe it’s just full.
“Howard Kurtz will be online Monday, May 1, at noon ET to discuss the press and his latest columns,” so I’ll ask Howie then. I am positive he won’t respond.
Umm, wasn’t the underlying crime of Whitewater that thing with the intern smoking some presidential pole? or was that something else?
I can’t remember either…
BobbyG @ 10:14 pm (#57) – “ready in time for the 100 year flood plain.â€
Then the flight’s cancelled and you have to wait around until the next 100 year flood plain to O’Hare, which inevitably arrives after your connection has taken off. Fat lot of good that will do us!
Cujo359 -
My jaw dropped when he said that. What an IDIOT.
Yeah, I know, we should be used to it by now. President Laughingstock.
Agggg.g.g.g.g.hhhhh!!!!!
My big question: Do we think Fitz is just going to indict Rove for perjury/obstruction, or is he going to throw out a whole bunch of conspiracy charges, too? Underlying crime, indeed.
off the wall prediction —- Fitz isn’t going to indict Rove next —- he’s going after whoever was responsible for the “missing emails” next (probably, Andy Card).
My guess is that the case against Card is rock solid — and that Card will flip on Rove and Cheney the minute he gets indicted…..
Jane – In case it’s not already been pointed out, disgusting troll, last thread, #188 by my count.
Bobby G., I’m not sure I see a typo. Was is the flood plain part? I assumed that this was an actual quote from Bush. Flood plain vs. flood plan?
I love that prediction #72–it makes perfect sense to me!
John Casper @ 10:22 pm (#68) – There’s a new blog page at WaPo. It’s at:
http://blog.washingtonpost.com…..nline.html
I also try to update the new blog page addresses in the comments at openlettertothewashingtonpost.blogspot.com.
Having just gotten home from a fabulous night of Art Gallery slumming —
Is Karl Rove a famous person or something? Is he in trouble?
Seriously — imo, Team Fitz is taking the next week or two to sort out just how much rope they have been given, by Mr Rove’s false and misleading testimony — with the underlying crime as a remainder, poised to put the bite on all of the other co-conspirators . . .
paul lukasiak @ 10:28 pm (#72) – Indicting Card sounds plausible (or whoever made the e-mail disappear), but why not Rove at the same time?
JWR- BobbyG took up the cudgels.
Valley Girl, mon Cherie -
OK, too much wine. I misread my own post. LOL!
Yeah. Bush said NOLA would be “ready for the 100 year flood plain”. Whata dope. He meant “100 year flood” and he did re-state that. But, just an indication of his cognitive lameness.
Q: Why do they tape Bush’s Harvard MBA diploma inside the windshield of the Prez Limo?
A: So he can park in the handicapped spaces when out whoring for GOP cash.
Bobby “the Babe” G,
“ready in time for the 100 year flood plain.†I’m glad I wasn’t the only one today that shot the TV a strange look at that nonsense. I so want to send Bush to look for 100 yards of flight line. ;)
but there was an underlying crime with the Clintons, the looting of the madison guarantee, which was a part of a looting every bit as comprehensive as henry the 8th when he got his hands on monastery land. It’s not that Bill and Hillary were lynchpins or kingpins, they were bit players as was Neil Bush. That the scandal was wide enough to enter the whitehousehold for the past 18 years, and could stay for possibly another 10, that gives some idea of how pervasive this private acquisition of previously public assets was. What the netroots must bring into perspective is that the republicans did not create a culture of corruption, they simply took it over from the democrats. Wall Street marionettes have joined the worst aspects of radical republican puritanism and the most venal aspects of Jim Crow to pose a real threat to our democracy, but can the democratic party break with the hold that Wall Street has established on its leaders. I for one will not let Bill Clinton off the hook for Whitewatter unless and until he addresses the fact that the savings and loans, once the safe haven of funding for housing for all americans, were systematically looted by the financial establishment, with the aid of politicians like him.
Iowa Bored 48
“Valerie Plame was betrayed to the nation’s enemies.â€
indeed, good premise.
Shez-
OK, so I wasn’t just trippin’. You heard it too.
LOL! We are ruled by a MORON!
(’babe’ – ol’ dawg be flattered)
BobbyG 67
Oops, Cabernet typo…
Shiraz sure can be
thanks for explaining, BobbyG. I didn’t hear his Bushesty today, and didn’t understand what he meant to say. Maybe he’s ending all his sentences now with “plain.”
VG – I’m sure we are thinking the same thoughts.
Someone gave the shoeshine man a camera. ? *g*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
“ready in time for the 100 yr. floodplain” say huh? Do those rubberbands you wear on your wrist and snap whenever you want to curse and skip from assault direct to mayhem – work?
If Gonzales and Bush and Cheney as your bosses with their policies, wisdom, and morals, don’t make you quit your job – what would?
Granted, you might have to give back your elephant trunk hat, but, as Dr Rice would say: would you really want to wear your elephant hat into a torture session?
She has that pithy insight that can only be commented upon, never duplicated. Having a hatcheck outside interrogation rooms has greatly truncated the sessions. A grateful nations trumpets you, Dr. Rice.
paul lukasiak 72
My guess is that the case against Card is rock solid — and that Card will flip on Rove and Cheney the minute he gets indicted…..
works for me
Mush, Mush in the Bush.
Musharraf says: “I ain’t no steenkin’ poodle.”
(Snip)
Newspapers have carried critical pieces on U.S. foreign policy in Pakistan and one has a “Mush & Bush” column lampooning the two leaders’ relationship
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/pakistan_musharraf_dc
-GSD
arkieology -
That’s essentially the generalized Nader rant.
But, Nader begat us Bush. The danger of that cannot be overstated.
p. lukasiak — I am so hoping you are right.
I stand by my prediction that it is Card and Rove, a two-fer for round two.
Nite all.
But, before I sign off
punaise ain’t no Tom Cruise, but “Top Pun”??
and, Babe, sleep well.
Punaise
If Rove ever confesses his guilt, it will be “Admission Accomplished” for Fitz.
OT-
Eagles QB responds to press questions about Rx Limbaugh’s arrest today:
http://www.bgladd.com/Bush_Mal…..mbaugh.jpg
;)
VG – ain’t no Tom Cruise
I’ll take that as a compliment
(unless I jumped the snark?)
que syrah, syrah
p. lukasiak, I’m hoping you are right too. Seeing how Fitz likes second sources and that Hadley was knee knockin’ so hard before Libby’s big day he practically needed a walker, it would be sweeeet if both Hadley and Card have flipped.
y’all are great. LOL!
FDL rules!
‘night.
neuro 93 – Temperature’s Rising in Room 222
yo BobbyG: back to CSNY – Helplessly Hoping – best harmony ever?
have a good one
Hmmm…I wuz just lookin’ at that elephant headgear pic again. Hmmmm…
I COULD give that dude a seamless Photoshop appendage of a different sort…hmmmm…Long Dong Silver….
just a transient thought.
‘night. Really.
cujo asked
paul lukasiak @ 10:28 pm (#72) – Indicting Card sounds plausible (or whoever made the e-mail disappear), but why not Rove at the same time?
…..just because :)
actually, because FitzG likes to ensure that each of his indictments is as solid as possible…. and I have the feeling that there is still more for Fitz to learn about Karl, and that Card is the key….
BobbyG – He is a SuperMoron. Did you miss the whole discussion on an earlier thread today about Moronometrics and Moronometers (remember, they’re logorhythmic).
Chimpy has the highest readings ever recorded – a full 10. Since the inventors of the moronometer didn’t believe it was humanly possible to score higher than a ten, that is where they ended the scale. It may be that Chimpy’s moronometric readings are actually higher, so they are recalibrating the moronometers accordingly. We should be able to have them in place early next week. Lot’s of side bets, the under/over is 12 *G*
punaise says:
April 28th, 2006 at 11:00 pm
yo BobbyG: back to CSNY – Helplessly Hoping – best harmony ever?
_____
OK, I’m tryin’ to go crash.
That’s in my acoustic “book.” I do that song. Love it. My acoustic set is fat with CSN&Y, Eagles, Loggins, Fogelberg, John Prine, James Taylor, etc.
Tune I wrote for my wife ~30 years ago, home demo (one of many):
http://www.bgladd.com/tunes/wr…..ve_you.mp3
What does it say about a group of criminals that includes a war hero congressman,, that gets caught in a series of scams and the war hero is the only one locked up? Not just locked up, but hurry the fuck and locked up….. Think of all the scandals that have occured since this one broke….. Any one else in jail yet? I just think there must be a good reason to wisk the Dukestir off to his country club Jail? This whole sex angle is somehow the key?
p. lukasiak 105 — I agree. He’s a slow hand.
OT — I just put up our FDL Book Club sidebar — we have Markos & Jerome, Rick Perlstein and Glenn Greenwald all joining us for discussions of their books in the upcoming weeks.
I am so excited. I’ll post about it tomorrow but this is very, very cool.
I guess what you hope for or expect goes to your theory of the case, doesn’t it? I don’t really have any strong leanings on that – but it makes a big difference.
Was there an an underyling scheme to simply discredit Joe Wilson (not a criminal undertaking necessarily, depending on facts/circumstances, although it could be tortious – outside prosecutor’s mandate – even if not criminal)? Or was there more going on? Rice and Fleischer, while sleazy, could have been involved in a lot of pointing and clue dropping to journalists and not technically have been doing anything illegal. If they were truthful (Rice never did testify, did she?) in discussions in the aftermath – they could be sleazy on this, and even possibly guilty on other information leaks or activities not within the grant to the Spec. Prosecutor, an be in a good position to walk.
If, at the same time, were there other schemes involving other possible bad acts (along the lines of the NIE leak – that are, under Walton’s order, outside the scope of the mandate, but still might be things that could be brought in to show evidence of intent, state of mind, facts of surrounding circumstances, etc. ) and if so who is involved in them? If those people don’t have a relationship to the betrayal of Plame and/or the follow up obstructions, etc. you might have some very unsavory things that could come out about them, but not necessarily criminal matters the Spec Pros could pursue.
Once you have things come to a head with the Novak story and investigation, then you begin to have issues related to obstruction and perjury and possibly conspiracy. I guess that if the conspiracy were primarily to cover up other matters (using the NIE leak as an example) that are outside the scope of the Spec Prosecutor’s mandate, but that also had a secondary or peripheral consequence of interfering with the Plame investigation, then that could come in as well.?
So who do you think did what, when and where, and who may have misspoke to whom and why If you think Card had something to do with the emails – alone? An assist? Did he “just happen” to have the time, or did Gonzales actually conspire with him as to the emails? If so, why? What did the two of them already know was in the emails? Neither of them were WHIG were they?
Did Gonzasles not think he could simply claim privilege or classification and refuse to make them available? Did they not think about it bc they thought that Ashcroft would be handling and it would be fine?
Did Cheney have any role with respect to the emails? Who would have equal access to both the President’s and VPs offices (Card?) to get at the emails and what would he need? Passords? Is everyone accounted for in the VP’s office for the night of the deletes?
I don’t have any good speculation. But the theory of how you think the picture pieces go together impacts who you see as the next target. Speaking of which, is that a target over the elephant hat/head guy? Was Cheney there?
I would have voted for Under the Volcano or Invisible Man.
Or any other book I’ve already read. I hate homework. Are there Cliff Notes?
logorhythmiclogarithmic.No more phonetics for me.
John in Sacramento, Leslie in CA, you guys awake? I’m staying at the Sheraton,across the street from the convention center. Just got back from the Angelides party and we’ve been asked to be whips for him tomorrow. John, where are you working? Leslie, are you near the convention center? I’ll check back in the morning and try to catch up with you guys.
my question is: can Bush still pardon Rove or Libby or whoever else the Fitzter nails if Bush himself resigns or is impeached? What about Cheney? Can he pardon anyone or is it just the prez?
I’m really wanting to see Rove wear an orange suit, eat watery cabbage and reconstituted potatoes and have to pee in front of the guards.
Jane (and everyone else) – Check out this link to a Newsday story (via Rawstory), on a talk by Judge Hogan re: Scooter, Miller, et al.
Tres interesting.
http://www.newsday.com/news/po…..-headlines
BobbyG – nice tune
ztiF, all
EPU — Have a look upstairs ;)
spiderpaws:
The president can pardon anybody, as long as he is still in office. He could be impeached by the House, but still be in office unless/until the Senate convicted him, and could pardon people during that interim. If Bush is impeached and removed from office, and Cheney then becomes president, he could pardon Bush or anyone else he wanted to. I think we need a new set of rules.
Yeah – I could do the actual “research” of reading the entire article, it would be helpful for my omniscience. Nah ;)
ALthough to my credit I said back then she was a part of the crime, not a “journalist.”
OK, next time I’ll read the whole thing. :(
I come at the Plame exposure from a different angle. She was a NOC for the CIA working under cover through Brewster Jennings & Associates.
From the beginning of the invasion, I kept waiting for them to suddenly find all those WMD’s hidden in Iraq. I was sure they were shipping the shit over there and planting it. It would eventualy be found to be TOO new to be the actual WMD’s of Saddam but by then it would of justified everything.
http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/?q=node/4939
Yes Joe Wilson was putting TOO much truth out there and he had SUCH credibility internationally that it would be hard to distredit it but if Plames brass plate company (Spys Incoporated) shut down the shippment of chemicals destined for the Iraq plant job, I think they would try anything to shut the whole thing down.
I’m at the state Dem convention here in sunny cal. Got my picture taken with Francine Busby (gosh, she looks like my fourth grade teacher!) and Nancy Pelosi. I feel like a schoolgirl meeting the beatles or something. Also met Gavin Newsome (wowsa, what a hunk!) just before dinner.
Oh EPU we love you just the way you are.
Katy: Interesting take, I was sure myself that they would plant WMD in Iraq to CTA. To this day I still wonder why these thugs didn’t do it. Your take on it is very plausable.
Cool, ’cause I wasn’t going to read it all anyway; Omniscience takes less time ;-)
And with that, g’night.
My $0.02, something like this was floating around tnh tonite. At the earliest strata of action, pre-war, Libby, Rove, WHIG, others in the WH are doing what they know Bush/Cheney want them to do. “Get Wilson,” is just one moment in what is second nature to all of them, manipulating the corporate media. They did it to Gore, they did it to McCain in South Carolina, it’s what they do. Cheney and Bush didn’t have to tell them to “Get Joe” Wilson. Cheney and Bush hired all these guys, because they knew they didn’t have to “spell it out” or “draw pictures” for them.
Later, prior to Ashcroft’s recusal, there might have been testimony to the FBI that sounded like Scooter went back to DeadEye, because he was “concerned.” And then DeadEye went to
ClusterfuckBush to get the NIE declassified. Bull. That imo was the first level of the cover-up, that Scooter and Rove thought would never see the light of day, because Ashcroft was in charge. Cheney didn’t leak to Libby. That’s a detail. Cheney relies on Libby to be his detail guy. Libby would have leaked it to Cheney.In excavating this, Fitz imo has uncovered parts of the underlying crime along with parts of different layers of the cover-up.
In terms of what’s evidence, those early FBI interviews, may be the earliests surving documents. If they say, Cheney leaked to Scooter, than it’s going to be hard for Cheney and Scooter to claim now that they lied to the FBI.
According to truthout, Rove is a target.
Fitzgerald to Seek Indictment of Rove
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/042806Y.shtml
“Rx Limbaugh’s arrest today”
I’m really confused. How can virtually everybody on that side of the aisle be simultaneoulsy corrupt or criminal? their president, their cabinet officials, their congressmen, their senators, their commentators, their pundits, their corporate donors, their clergy, their journos, their lobbyists. All one big racket.. a complete ecosystem of human venality :P
you dont have to be a lawyer to know that Rove is lying out of his ass.
The idea of Card and/or Hadley getting indicted and then flipping is causing me to drool all over my keyboard …
… but if they were indictable, why wouldn’t they have been indicted on Oct. 28th along with Scooter? I mean … Rove “gave the special prosecutor pause” at the last minute, and Woodward & Hovak threw their wrenches into the works, but is there anything about any of that which would have also delayed impending indictments of Card & Hadley?
… or are we saying that Card’s goose was cooked by the 250 emails? hmmmm …
obsessed — yeah I get all kinda weak-kneed myself at the thought.
My Ex was Security Service USAF (Air Force version of the CIA). I was in Greece during the first Iranian crisis and shut down. We were at the listening post for the middle east.
Had too much wine but there was a cuba event, Operation something where the Pentagon planned to down one of our own planes and blame it on Castro to start a war with Cuba.
I really did not think BushCo was too stupid to plan evidence to support their claim. I figured they would ship in those drones that could GET Americans in 45 mintues (how? It is a 10+ hr flight via jet), boat loads of chemicals and all the Nukes to prove those smoking guns.
All one big racket.. a complete ecosystem of human venality
… and the genius of Rove is that the rest of the country still hasn’t figured it out. Imagine what he could have done if his main candidate had been able to speak English! Did anyone find it ironic that Bush is bitching about singing the national anthem in Spanish? I bet he couldn’t sing it in English either.
Card or Hadley being indicted and cooperating is a wonderful thought. I would suppose that the indictment would come as part of their deal with Fitz. They would have to pay their dues just as Fitz expected Libby to, before Libby balked and opted to go to trial rather than cut a deal.
However, if I were Fitz, and I had Hadley and Card cooperating, I would have to consider keeping their cooperation under wraps for as long as possible, which would mean delaying their indictment until the last possible minute, so as to entrap others, like Rove, who would keep going back to the GJ over and over again in an futile effort to ‘clarify’ his story, as Butthead (of Beavis and Butthead fame) would say, “polish a turd”.
Only after everyone has laid their cards on the table should Libby reveal who has been cooperating with him.
I guess we are getting pretty close to that point. Rove has been given enough rope to hang himself. Maybe it is time for Fitz to pass out the indictments that were agreed to by Haldley and Card (as part of their deal), as well as the indictments that Rove has been desperately seeking to avoid.
Ooops, I meant to say “should FITZ reveal who has been cooperating with him.” Not Libby.
neuro: interesting…too shocking that cheney could pardon bush if the sequence you speak of came to be…a horror story to tell the grandkiddies on dark, rainy nights lashed with thunder and lightning…the astrology charts of senate and house Dems (some) have been examined next to their republican counterparts…good news is all the Dem members have favorable Jupiter aspects (Kerry and Feingold) and the repubs have rather bad Saturn aspects (including Rove and Bolton) the only Dem with heavy Saturn aspects is Hillary Clinton…go figure…
Yikes. Upthread I sure didn’t intend to minimize the pain of anyone whose sexual identity was “outed.”
But I’ll wager a fair number of the troops leading the PR push for Libby honed their skills at right-wing campus newspapers where outing fellow students was indeed considered little more than a fun prank.
Indicting Rove will be the official beginning of the end for these criminals.
I think if Fitz packs the indictment with enough bang that Rove will sing, Fitz won’t stop untill he reaches the final conclusion which means motive.
OT – Bush Uses “State Secrets Privilege” to Hide ATT Spying
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/4/29/0759/54872
It is just another type of signing statement
I was looking for a scoop about male hookers, or Goss, that isn’t here, but what’s new (to me anyway) is the connection between the thug, Baker, who operated the limo service that delivered the “working girls,” and Homeland Security’s $7 million dollar a year limo bill.
Prostitution Alleged In Cunningham Case
Washington Post Staff Writers
Saturday, April 29, 2006; Page A0
“…….The San Diego Union-Tribune yesterday cited a letter from Baker’s lawyer, Bobby Stafford, saying that Baker “provided limousine services for Mr. Wilkes for whatever entertainment he had in the Watergate” from the company’s founding in 1990 through the early 2000s. The letter also stated that Baker was “never in attendance in any party where any women were being used for prostitution purposes.” Reached by telephone yesterday, Stafford would not comment on the letter.
Before starting Shirlington Limousine, public records show, Baker compiled a lengthy criminal record. Between 1979 and 1989, he was convicted on several misdemeanor charges, including drug possession and attempted petty larceny, as well as two felony charges for attempted robbery and car theft, according to D.C. Superior Court records.
The Internal Revenue Service filed a tax lien against Baker in 1996. He lost his house in 1998, and he filed for personal bankruptcy protection in 1998 and again in 1999.
Although Baker’s company began receiving small federal contracts in 1998, it also fell into debt, records show. In early 2002, Arlington County Circuit Court ordered Shirlington Limousine to pay American Express Travel Related Services Co. $55,292.
That summer, Howard University terminated a contract with Shirlington Limousine to supply shuttle bus service, citing poor service and other problems.
In 2003 and again in 2004, the company received eviction notices for an office it maintained in a luxury D.C. apartment building. And in September 2004, the company was sued in D.C. Superior Court for $1.8 million, for failing to make payments on buses it bought for the Howard contract. The case was settled last month, with Shirlington Limousine agreeing to pay $300,000.
During these financial troubles, Baker’s company won a contract worth $3.8 million with the Department of Homeland Security in April 2004. It appears from federal records that Shirlington Limousine was the only bidder. The contract was awarded under a program that limited competition to businesses in poor neighborhoods.
Baker was able to close his bankruptcy case last April after he made nearly $125,000 in payments to creditors, according to court records.
The Homeland Security Department said it awarded Shirlington Limousine, one of three bidders, another one-year contract for $21.2 million in October….”
Washington D.C. has a great subway and bus system. Why does the Department of Homeland Security need to spend $seven million dollars a year on limo’s in DC?
lily, thanks for the link. There is some discussion on the prior thread about that truthout post.
If Bush is impeached and removed from office, and Cheney then becomes president, he could pardon Bush or anyone else he wanted to.
I don’t think that squares with what the Constitution says:
If The Dick became president after Bush was impeached, found guilty and removed from office, The Dick could still pardon Bush so Bush would not have to answer to any charges in a court of law.
However, I really feel that Cheney would be made to resign his vice presidency and take the fall to save Bush. He’d be sure to give everyone that one fingered salute as he helicoptered away.
The wingnuts’ obsession with “Bill Clinton’s cock” is proportional to the degree to which they are contemptuous of the rule of law. Which only proves that size matters.
I’m told that the underlying crime was lying under oath, kinda like how Libby has been charged. It is problematic whether the action’s about which Libby lied are crimes. That’s partly because some of the relevant statutes require proof of intent and/or knowledge.
katymine: wow, wow and wow! Those are real zingers. What you wrote gives me the creeps…it is so plausible. ..
And only just minutes earlier, contemplating the unraveling of rove & co., I was a experiencing a crowing “mary martin peter pan I-can-fly moment”. You gotta have a strong heart to follow this stuff…….
Anybody remember this?
Scene cut from Farenheit 9/11 where Porter Goss says he’s not qualified to work at the CIA.
Oh really?
katymine says:
April 29th, 2006 at 12:13 am
OT – Bush Uses “State Secrets Privilege†to Hide ATT Spying
Isn’t that the trick they pulled out of the bag to keep Sibel Edmonds quiet?
And that Judge Reggie Walton (of more recent fame and interest around here) upheld?
Wow! A “Five Gates of Hell” hat. Those haven’t been around since the RNC.
This is pure speculation: I’m thinking back to just before Katrina, when Cindy Sheehan was camped out in Crawford and the President was officially on vacation (as opposed to being mentally vacant from his job). Cheney was off in the woods somewhere. And the President seemed to be more detached than usual. Could it be then when it started to penetrate Bush’s bubble that his “brain” was in deep dodo and he might have to go on without Rover? People were speculating Bush was estranged from his VP. Was our clueless leader ticked because bungling in the office of the VP was likely to lead to losing Karl? And so when Katrina hit, Bush was still in the state of “DUH”. The White House sure wasn’t masterful in dealing with Sheehan then either. Could the President’s lethargy around that time be attributed to his realization that Rove couldn’t spin or leak his way out of a GJ investigation?
If so, by now the President has had time to adjust, hence, Karl’s demotion in advance of his indictment. The WH is bracing to go into spin mode. An indictment is coming.
OK, “Late Nite FDL” is great – but I need an FDL “For People who Get Up Ridiculouly Early for No Apparent Reason” thread.
jayt -
I need a Late Late Nite FDL for those who are up late finishing posts…
Ceeee
If you want to see what happens when Rove ain’t around, I can point you to the Harriet Miers nomination for a case in point.
Finally got a chance to re-read Waas this morning, and the last four graphs are a hoot. I know journalists are not held in high repute, especially the ones who operate in Washington. But the one thing I know from spending 30 plus years with a reporter is that they are very careful about sources and the reliability of their information.
Waas really laid down the gauntlet for Novak and Cooper: gee, he says, it’s really kind of strange for people to print stuff that’s just gossip and innuendo, isn’t it now. And journalistically unethical and shoddy, quoting two journalism experts.
I think at the end of the day, no matter how much wink-wink and nod-nod the Rover and Scooter may have put into their conversations with these gentlemen, the fact of the matter is that both Novak and Cooper thought their information was rock-solid. Any journalist’s reputation is built on the reliability of their information.
I know it’s fashionable to diss the press, and I find it sticks in my craw to stand up for Novakula in any way, but I just can’t believe they would print something without believing that it was solid.
But I can’t decide if those last four graphs are a challenge — show us what you’ve got, guys — or a tipoff that there is some kind of backup evidence (recordings?) on who is telling the truth here. I’m guessing the latter.
I both agree and disagree with a few of the things the judge says;
there is a protection for reporters to keep their sources confidential and the press is not free if a reporter becomes obligated to disclose a watchdogs identity (watchdog please, not whistle blower, it fits better)
however he does disclaim his statement with the second part of the sentence and that part is right on the money
that’s the clear difference between a reporters legitimate claims concerning his sources and miller committing treason being a party to uncovering our covert assets
the judge ruins my opinion of him when he makes the claim “there is no first amendment protection of a reporters sources”
that position is dangerous if we are to expect over site from the fourth estate, and if we can even hope watchdogs will find a way to tell us about criminals of the state breaking our law in the secrecy of their position and power
I love waking up to this great stuff. Paul at 72, Mary at 102 — great analysis an great follow up questions. I think we have been so focussed on Rove, we forgot all the other — many other — criminals who betrayed Valerie Plame or supported the conspiracy and cover-up after the fact.
carry on Jane and Redd!!
jayt,
If what you say is true, and Judge Walton is the one that upheld the decision to muzzle Siebel Edmonds, it makes me very uncomfortable. Seems awfully convenient (a la the Cheney/Scalia relationship). I don’t know much about Judge Walton but I’d like to hear from folks that are familiar with him and his rulings, integrity…..etc.
John Casper @ 138 – God, the link to that article on the $7 million/year limo service for hookers paid for by Homeland Security just flips me out. Do you think the public will pay attention to this glaring piece of fraud? So very man dots to connect. It really does require a wide spreadsheet with a big column for each and every scandal in each and every department committed by each and every individual. And then there would have to be the cross-listing…..
I kinda think some indictments will come sooner rather than later. Fitz has been very close to being ready for a long time. He has just been nailing the whole scenario down tighter and tighter, turning the screws slowly and surely. Man, he must really sleep well each night. Let the unsealing begin! And starting with Hadley and Card would be a nice appetizer.
This next week should be very interesting. It starts with demonstrations about Darfur on Sunday, then immigrant marches and boycott on Monday, which BTW the California legislature has endorsed. I expect we’ll see LA come to a screeching halt. Good morning, America. It’s getting hot in the kitchen.
Matt O @ #145 – are you fucking kidding me? That is too much! The crony line starts at the top and forms to the right. This just doesn’t ever end. Harriet Miers might have been a better CIA chief. Thanks for the link.
New thread – once again, let’s avoid limbo and rush to Christy’s thread
That picture sums up the GOP.
I hate to spoil the fun – I think we all know that a judge giving a public speech may not strain to insert “alleged” into every sentence before the word “crime” – but let me just offer a tidbit from the affidavit submitted *to* Hogan and Tatel by Fitzgerald.
As you will recall, Fitzgerald was urging the judges to get tough on Judy Miller and explaining the importance of obtaining her testimony. Here we go:
*If* Libby knowingly disclosed information about Plame’s status with the CIA, Libby would appear to have violated Title 18, United States Code, Section 793 [the Espionage Act] if the information is considered “information respecting the national defense.” In order to establish a violation of Title 50, United States Code, Section 421 [the Intelligence Identities Protection Act], it would be necessary to establish that Libby knew or believed that Plame was a person whose identity the CIA was making specific efforts to conceal and who had carried out covert work overseas within the last 5 years. **To date, we have no direct evidence that Libby knew or believed that Wilson’s wife was engaged in covert work.**
Emphasis added to the *If* at the start and the sentence at the end.
*Prior* to obtaining Miler’s testimony, Fitzgerald’s point was that he lacked the evidence to say that a crime had been commiited under the Intelligence Identitiies Protection Act, since he could not establish Libby’s state of knowledge about Plame’s status.
FWIW, I don’t think anyone believes Judy gave him the evidence he needed – she did not, apparently, testify that Libby knew Plame’s status was classified.
So if Fitzgerald did not have enough evidence to say a crime had been committed, how did Hogan?
Yikes – no “Preview” function… well, Preview is for sissies, anyway…
EPU’d but Me to Me: I wouldn’t count on it that those were the Judge’s exact and unaltered words. There’s every chance that he got summarized and edited and may very well have made a much more careful statemetn. I don’t know that, but I suspect it.
!ztiF
Tom McGuire you posted in the EPU’d Zone and your post is worth more eyeballs. Perhaps you should re-post on the next thread.
You do great work, Tom. Thanks
And there is a cool preview feature on this site. Look in the space just north of “Name (required)” above
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Sorry about mispelling your name Maguire! Won’t happen again.
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I’d disagree with you on several points, but I don’t think the truth can be wrung out like lemon juice from what little we have. In particular, though, the reference to Libby is not that there is “no evidence” but rather that there is no “direct” evidence (as in a tape of Libby sitting at a desk musing aloud – gee, I know Valerie Plame is covert and the CIA is trying to hide her identity an she’s been engaged in covert activities, but how do I betray her status anyway?)
Intent and knowledge are tied to indirect evidence all the time, probably more frequently than direct.
AS to Hogan, I think everyone should probably realize they are hearing a report of his talk, and not his talk.
I’ve been reading the speculation that Rove is a snitch, and that the real target is Dick Cheney. (My name for him is the Earl of Evil.)
The speculation suggests a charge of conspiracy to obstruct justice. But I wonder about perjury. Has Cheney actually testified before the grand jury, and, if so, was it under oath?
If I can just pull mine out…Judeath Miller’s underlying crime can not be anything to do with the CIA leak case or ‘ Plamegate’ – it has to be something else doesn’t it?
I mean she never actually wrote a story that meant much of anything in 2003 AFTER the illegal aggressive invasion of SW Asia did she?
Certainly nuthin bout no ‘ Valerie Flame’*
I reckon it’s what I call ‘ Yellowgate’ and that is her ‘ little tubes of terror’ story ( Ta James Moore ) That came out in 2002 as the war drive was running into sand dunes and the BIG LIE had to be wheeled out. The BIG LIE little Ms run-amok was running needed two halves. The yellowcake and the technology. She ran the tecno side and the Cheney/Libby team cooked up the yellowcake. ( w/help from Bolton and Ledeen and etc ) I ain’t no lawyer but this is the SUPREME CRIME according to the Nuremberg precedent.
ALL the cover-ups trace directly back to the BIG LIE technique and the rethugs get their backs up whenever this touchy subject is bought up.
So RICO looks like the way forward from here – then Chimpeachment/25th ammendemnt move – then last train to Haguesville.
Feingold for president – Fitz for AG – medals of freedom for all firedoggers in good standing.
Judith Priest is she a criminal all right.
They could all be shot and they could all be hung. ( I’m well hung and don’t need strap-on’s )
* Both Judick and count Novacula mention ‘ Flame’…probably just some vampire thang.
one of important lessons in the trashing of America by republicans is that Ralph Nader and his supported were tragically wrong in their ignorant justification that its OK to vote for Nader because there is no significant difference between republicans and democrats.
Any democrat can freely admit that politics is a desultory business and perhaps all politicians lie and are somewhat corrupt or at least are prostitutes. But there are important shades-of-grey-differences between the democratic ilk and the republican ilk that Naderites failed to discern and which ushered in what may well someday be known as the second Dark Ages, the age of Bush:
On the democrat ledger we have:
** Clinton tried to mask an extra-marital BJ in the office;
On the republican ledger:
** abused the government and media during the Clinton years to thwart the will of the American people in hounding a popular President with extensive false and specious charges;
** illegal, unnecessary invasion of sovereign nations;
** illegal torture and rendition;
** illegal spying on Americans;
** anti-constitutional dictatorial grab of executive power;
** extensive corruption and abuse of power for self-enrichment and for enrichment of the obscenely rich;
** extensive cronyism at the expense of the American’s well being and security;
** dismantling of regulations to free corporate interests to abuse Americans and America..
If anyone ever again says there is no difference between democrats and republicans be conscious-free in promptly spitting their face.
.
Well, I might be EPU-ing myself here, but this post is the most likely place to share this recent find:
http://www.scooterlibby.com/
(I’m probably very late to the party with this URL discovery, but just in case…)
Madam_Deb,
I’ve been hanging around here at the end of the Late Nite FDL thread for a while, so at least one person shuffled over to see Karzai with Scoots.
I think most FDL regulars are aware of the fund raising efforts of Libby. They’re a sharp bunch. But thanks for posting the link just in case.
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Is it just that we’re being cautious, or has Jason L. developed a bad record on Plamegate? His latest article says Rove is a done deal next week (unless the G/J turns Fitz down, I guess), but it’s getting downplayed bigtime.
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/042806Y.shtml
Don’t get me wrong, I’ll continue to keep the champagne on ice. But a little optimism’s not a bad thing.
I don’t think the truth can be wrung out like lemon juice from what little we have. In particular, though, the reference to Libby is not that there is “no evidence†but rather that there is no “direct†evidence
Jiminy, good game from Mary!
I am in complete agreement about the lemon juice – I am gloomily aware that an awful lot of what I write ultimately amounts to a faith-based inititiative.
I also agree about the “direct evidence” point, and try to note that when I do a full fledged post (Honestly!).
However, I try to sneak that quote past others, especially on comment threads other than mine, or when Jeff may not be around. Darn.
All that said, I think (semi-faith based) that Fitzgerald is also lacking in indirect evidence, and was hoping for more from Ms. Miller.
Put another way – I don’t think Fitzgerald is shy, and I do think that in various filings a clear statement that he had evidence that Libby knew Ms. Plame’s status was classified would have helped his argument.
And, IMHO, his failure to indict Libby for perjury on his testimony that he did not believe Plame to be classified is also telling – it certainly makes me think that Fitzgerald cannot prove the opposite.
Well – good job, anyway.
alert, alert!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
CSPAN doing the dinner tape right now!
(9:30AM PDT)
Judeath Miller’s underlying crime can not be anything to do with the CIA leak case or ‘ Plamegate’ – it has to be something else doesn’t it?
Judith Miller was not jailed because she had committed a crime. She was jailed because she refused to obey a court order, which ordered her to testify before a grand jury and reveal her sources.
Miller was a witness to a potential crime–the possibly-unauthorized divulgation by someone (the “source”) within the administration of classified information. Nobody–not even a purported journalist–is exempt from testifying to matters to which he or she is a witness.
I thought the neo-fascists said she was just a secretary?