Fitz!

RH – Do you agree that the sources appear to be Rove’s?

FITZ!!!

1,034 DAYS AND THE KILLING DOES ON!

Yay!!! I feel like a little girl on Christmas eve.

I love that term “unfinished business”

obsessed — for the CNN story? Yeah, it sounds like a Luskin spin plant to me, just based on King’s reporting. Fitz wouldn’t drag the G/J back in just to tell them some good news and go home, it just doesn’t work that way on the whole. We’ll clearly be trying to dig into some scoop on this as we can get any sources to spill.

EPU’d from last short lived thread:

Larry #7:
Here’s Rice and Rummy’s disguises when visiting Iraq:
http://www.wolfblog.net/images/r226286313.jpg

If he had his lawyer w/him and Fitz…either he’s ‘flipping’ or a ‘heads-up’ that something wil be handed up?

Will Snow takes questions?

Hmm…perhaps this is the real answer to Josh Marshall’s question as to why McClellan stepped down before a replacement was named.

They just staged a big Snow storm to obscure a date with the Grand Jury.

And it also explains the oddity of timing in regards to Rove’s new role. Convenient, yes, that Rover has more time away from policy in order to meet with his attorney?

Wanna’ bet that domestic spying has come in pretty handy for timing such events?

I just heard a news item that Rove is TESTIFYING. Well…analysis?
Ghostman

After the filing came out that walked the NIE leaking into the President’s office I thought a lot about the first GJ. To listen to that kind of testimony, then have to go home and sit on it for all this time — I feel for these GJ-s.

Byron York of NRO is reporting that Rove will testify before the grand jury this afternoon.

Oh please please please let him testify! Any time Turd Blossom opens his mouth under oath, it’s an opportunity for him to hang himself. C’mon Rover, don’t clam up on us now!

Any reasonable chance indictments could be announced today?

tony faux: i can not comment on an ongoing criminal investigation. how does my hair look?

Putting on the Fitz!

Rove’s 4th appearance today

Hip hip hooray!

Oh yeah, and isn’t it convenient that Rover’s had a week to work on finding another Repug with name cred to run in the primary against Harris? See Josh Marshall for more…

Amazing what one can do when they’ve got a tight timeline in which to work, caught between a falling JAR and a G-J.

Noron confirming Rover in front of GJ today. For the fifth time.

Christy, how convoluted can the story get that he’s called back 4 times? How many “take backs” does he get before a prosecutor/GJ get fed up?

1,034 DAYS AND THE KILLING GOES ON!

Christy,

To occupy the dead spaces waitin fer calls ta be returned or double top secret e-mails from Fitz-informants, could you start a history project researching the history of the Walker-Bush family and its connections to the fascist movement in the 20th century? You could send out the call ta fdlers in the street and see what kinda anthology or archieve you could put together to begin the process of puttin historical context to the nightmare the world has been livin thanx ta these folks.

We are at a critical point in the evolution of our own politics and we need to drive a stake thru the heart of the fascist beast or it will jest morph into a “centerist” Democratic Party of Hillary, Joe Biden, Chuck Schumer, Rahm Emmanuel and AIPAC.

Just and idea that could put some of the really goodresearch and writing minds to work in the fdl-street.

And welcome back, give the kid a hug and don’t lament takin’ ‘er ta Disney World at the age of three…you won’t ever forget it (even if she never remembers it), trust me.

KEEP THE FAITH AND DON’T LET ANY REPUBLICANS INTO YER YARD WITHOUT A PASSPORT!!

Fitzo de Mayo a-comin!

Maybe Tony Snowjob can comment on Rove’s latest GJ appearance?

http://www.bgladd.com/Fox_House_press_room.jpg

nice, BobbyG!

For Fitzaholics, a link to a report in “The Owl,” (Regis High School newspaper) about Fitz’s vist there:

http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/000464.php

Blank Kludge –

I agree that those are the likely two possibilities. However, it is highly unlikely that a Rove flip would be telegraphed like this to the world. Other people have flipped and it hasn’t elicited a GJ meeting and a simultaneous attorney meeting with the subject’s counsel.

So the odds in my book, with all the action transpiring, is that either (i) Fitz is simply going forward with his investigation and there is a jump in activity today for some ordinary, coincidental reason or (ii) Fitz is going to indict soon.

This looks a lot like what went on before Libby was indicted, so I’m guessing (ii).

Nice timing by Christy to get back from vacation at the perfect time to cover the latest Fitz developments for all of us.

Thanks Christy!!! It can’t be said enough.

Here’s my “if I were writing this as a script” take (and since I don’t write scripts, it probably won’t be that great).

The story that was planted a few days back about the Powell memo, asserting it never mentioned Plame was covert, just that the paragraph discussing her was classified (secret or top secret)

plus

Already existing revelation from Fitzgerald’s filings about Presidential authorizations to leak classified info

equals

Rove taking one more opportunity to spin by saying he was authorized to leak from the Powell Memo and he had not said anything about it until now, bc it was “classified” and secret that his leaking had been authorized. So see, he really didn’t do anything *wrong*

/end screenwritingspec.

I love the smell of convening in the morning . . .

seeing the words “Breaking” as this site opens prompts a response akin to arousal

BRING IT FITZ!!!

I’m so excited I can hardly breathe.

Christy:

Timing is everything. Think about whatcha mighta missed if you had gone Disney THIS week.

Fitz saved this one 4U!

Welcome back.

So, wondering , if he testifies and that testimony implicates ‘higher-ups’ what happens? Just askin’…

Here’s to seeing the Ted Bundy of US politics getting put away for life..
I can hope, right?

Well my analysis may be defunct, because if Rove is TESTIFYING today, then everything changes. He could be flipping. Or he could have “remembered” something new. Or Fitz might have something new to ask Rove about, thus giving Rove more rope to hang himself with. Interesting day…

brings to mind the imploring mantra of the love-struck guy character in Spike Lee’s “She’s Got to Have It”:

“Please, baby, please, baby
Baby, baby, please!”

But Bin Laden just released a tape!

Al Zarqawi just released a tape!

Tony Snow is the new guy, lets talk about him!

Condi and Rummy just went on a new Mission Implausible!

Bush is moving to the center!

Iran, they are Hitler!

What a handfull of asswipes.

-GSD

OH FITZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am so excited, I had a feeling after Rover was demoted, that Fitz would be calling on hiss sorry butt again. Noron looked all flustered during her report. Wonder what is up?

I’m no law-talkin’ guy by any means, but is it safe to say that the more times someone testifies, the more likely they are to contradict what they said in one of their previous appearances?

Especially if they’ve been, ah, less than truthful. Not that I would ever suggest something like that of someone as pure-hearted as Karl…

For all the latest news, documents, filings, timelines and other essential CIA Leak case materials, see:
“The PlameGate Document Center.”

Billmon tells us that Chimpys approval ratings are fast approaching those of Cholera….

Nice wordsmithing

the big question for me is whether or not rove will roll. he is a rat fuck bastard and i just don’t see him taking the fall for a couple of fat cats like junior and dick. just a guess, but him testifying will probably delay his eventual indictment, but dig his–and everyone else’s–hole a bit deeper…

Until Christy chimes in, I’m going with Mary #25 plus xyz #30, (last spec about handing Rover more rope). They are not mutually exclusive IMHO.

Thanks to you both.

Eli…hahaha!

I would say that #37 is the correct analysis, if rolling is the only way for Rove to keep his job.
Clearly, staying at the White House is his #1 priority, rather than avoiding criminal charges, per se.
Postponing indictment may be his best option now.

I heard Fitzgerald say he was going to indict last week, but wanted to wait til Christy was back.

STOCK TIP:

http://www.grecian-formula.com/

TONY FAUX’s gonna stock up on this stuff fer sure!

Eli….34

A spot assumption that is so true

the big question for me is whether or not rove will roll. he is a rat fuck bastard and i just don’t see him taking the fall for a couple of fat cats like junior and dick. just a guess, but him testifying will probably delay his eventual indictment, but dig his–and everyone else’s–hole a bit deeper…

The bottom line for me is that I want to see Rove gone: out of power, out of influence. Prison would be a nice bonus, but I’m not picky. My question at this point is, would ratting out Bush and/or Cheney serve or harm the best interests of the Republicans, and therefore make him a hero or a pariah?

OT.

Snow says he is not coming to ‘Drink the Kool-Aid’.

http://www.rawstory.com/news/2….._0426.html

Also, if you haven’t seen the story about the 18 mega-ultra-rich families that are calling for the change in the “ESTATE TAX” that is a big drum to bang. Let’s dig up all of the Bush quotes about the “DEATH TAX”…and tie them to him. No class warfare heh?

http://www.cleveland.com/news/…..amp;coll=2

-GSD

sharkbabe, “Fitzo de Mayo” is so much more “now” than “Fitzmas.”

Let’s move on with Sharkbabe to “Fitzo de Mayo.”

We already passed the “Ides of Fitz” last month, without satisfaction. Neither “Good Fitzday” nor “Fitzer Morning” produced this month for us.

If a week expires, we’ll have to satisfy ourselves with some others, such as:

Fitzer’s Day (that’s June)

The Fitz of July (which occurs on the Fourth)

and y’all can come up with others, I am sure.

My point is that Fitzmas is gone, the colored eggs of Fitzer Sunday are gone, and unless we are dancing the Fitzpole on Sunday, or twirling our skirts on Fitzo de Mayo next week (well, some of us, not me, have skirts to twirl), we’ll need some other celebratory dates.

What will they be?

(And again, thanks, sharkbabe!)

Eli,

You denigrate rat fuck bastards everywhere when including Rove as one of their own.
Knock it off. heh

I wonder how it must feel to be Karl Rove right now.

See, up to now, Karl’s spent his entire life wrapped in the protective cocoon that is available only to the scions of the powerful. He’s never had to pay any serious penalty for lying or breaking the law, because he’s always had somebody who will make the judges look the other way, or even keep charges from being pressed or witnesses from coming forward.

But now, now, NOW Karl’s boxed himself in. Fitz caught him lying under oath, and if Bush dares pardon his ass, the Democrats win super-majorities in both houses of Congress this fall.

For the first time in his life, Karl Rove’s run into something he can’t shrug off, scare off, laugh off or buy off.

So tell me, Karl, how does it feel?

How does it feel to know that, unless a miracle happens and you can sell out someone whose head Fitz wants more than he wants yours, you are going to prison?

Tell me, Karl — how does that feel?

C’mon, tell me.

you know, Goopers are admitting that Bush is a lost cause when they speak of drinking the Kool-Aid.
I’m going to indulge in a rare bit of optimism. I think the 4th Reich is already dead—the corpse is just twitching a little, that’s all.

My take….

It would seem to me that Rove and Luskin have pulled yet another ace from their sleeve in an attempt to avoid an indictment…That is, they must have told Fitz that they have some “new” dirt to testify to (i.e. pointing the finger again at Libby and Cheney’s office). Otherwise, I find it hard to believe that Fitz would put him on the stand to merely rehash the same old song and dance he has already testified to.
The fact that he is testifying again before the grand jury merely shows me that Fitz wants Rover to put the crap he is spewing on the record.
It seems to me that Fitz may have told Luskin and Turdie that he has the goods on him and that unless they have something new and damning to contribute, he is going down with a new indictment.
In addition, it seems to me that Fitz has enough to indict Turdie on the same grounds as he did Libby and at this point Turd-boy is doing everything he possible can to avoid that. He may be throwing someone under the bus that we have not heard of before (perhaps someone in the Pentagon).
In any event, the fact that Turd is testifying today would seem to delay his indictment (if it is ever going to happen). The reason for that? Anything he says today will affect the story-line for any indictment and drafting it takes time.
I know that it takes me many days and sometimes weeks to put together a half-decent legal pleading and it seems to me that Fitz’s standards are much higher than mine.
Thus, even if Rove gets indicted, I think it will be weeks from now…I do hope I am wrong and Fitz is just laying another trap for the great Turd.

Mary, I’m a bit confused.

If I understand your script correctly, wouldn’t that defence (a) finally bring into stark relief the essential distinction between leaking and declassifying, one the Admin has tried at every opportunity to elide (and wouldn’t it put paid to the deliberate ambiguity of that weasel word, “authorised”?), and (b) put Bush/Cheney directly on the political and perhaps legal hot seat?

Notice the Thinkprogress story has the breaking info coming from Carl Cameron. Foxholer extraordinaire. So now the information goes from Tony Snow to Carl Cameron to the media.

I wonder if Judy Miller is jealous about being left out of the orgy?

-GSD

eli- i think we give rove too much credit sometimes for the black ops of the gop. it was junior who was the “loyalty enforcer” for poppy and of course, he’s a sociopath. it may be rove’s planning and execution, but the green light comes from dubya who looks like an excellent scape goat for the right more and more everyday…

Yayy!!. O boy! Back from 3weeks away. But I lurked all the time.

1,034 DAYS AND THE KILLING GOES ON!!

sharkbabe… “Fitzo de Mayo”, awesome gal!!

A fifth appearance. The mind boggles.

Rove is a borderline genius. Fitz is no slouch.

Is Rove going to try to wriggle his way out with newly revealed “top secret” authorizations from the Prez? Things he could not disclose to even the GJ previously? Or does he have some other story to cover his ass?

Or is he just going to flip and take his punishment? Because he will have to take some punishment. My understanding is that part of the reason Libby wasn’t willing to cut a deal is because Fitz was insisting that he do some hard time as part of any deal.

Enough speculation for me. Got to get back to work. Time will tell.

egregious 41 *g* Is he wanting to make sure she sends another email to Cafferty?

BTW – HS paper link: It was nice to give the interview to the student for the HS paper.

I’m with those who is not holding my breath for an indictment.

If Rove really thought he was going to be indicted, then he would have officially severed his relationship with the WH last week (rather than only dropping a piece of his portfolio) to avoid the embarrassing resignation (if he stepped down now, he could more easily remain in the political adviser position, albeit without security clearance).

Also, remember those rumors about Rove “Cooperating.” I’m not saying I believe them. I’m saying this might be a last ditch attempt to give Fitz enough to avoid prosecuting him.

Mary, xyz, and other legal eagles,

maybe I’ve watched too much Perry Mason, but I would think if Rove was testifying about yet another “remembrance”, it would send a prosecutor around the bend – you’ve all done such a good job of underscoring the signifigance of Fitz’s “sand in the Umpire’s eyes” statement and all -

NorskeFlamethrower

Cinco de Fitzo. Good. Particularly when you consider 5 grand jury appearances.

First, I think it’s actually Rove’s TENTH time testifying in a cicumstance under which he could be indicted for lying. Remember that recent story where they said he had testified 9 times and only told the truth once?

But I also have misgivings about this. The only reasons I can think of would be:

1) The new Grand Jury insisted on hearing from him themselves
2) He’s rolling on Cheney

Frankly, I’d rather have Rove indicted than Cheney, who, like Rumsfeld, is more politically valuable to the anti-Neocon cause in office than he would be on trial. Well, maybe not. I don’t know. I just want to see Rove go down.

fitz de mayo…

damn, gotta go buy some tequilla now…

Heh…and on this day in 1865, another guy was surrounded by the feds. John Wilkes Booth.

eli- i think we give rove too much credit sometimes for the black ops of the gop. it was junior who was the “loyalty enforcer†for poppy and of course, he’s a sociopath. it may be rove’s planning and execution, but the green light comes from dubya who looks like an excellent scape goat for the right more and more everyday…

My gut feeling is that you are correct in that Rove’s first loyalty is to Bush… or himself. So even if he’s not directly doing the bidding of the GOP, if they’re desperate enough to get rid of Dubya, they could very well pretend that Rove is some kind of principled hero just for trying to save his own skin.

XYZ:

The only way Rove gets out of this one is if he can offer up both Cheney’s AND Bush’s heads on platters to Fitz.

Bush can’t pardon him, because that guarantees the Democrats winning veto-proof majorities in both houses of Congress. And Rove needs to find someone whose scalp will be more valuable to Fitz than Rove’s own.

There are only two people who fit that description.

Norske – actually, I swiped “Fitzo de M” from the brilliant commenter lower manhattanite over at gilliard’s.

I very much want to see Rove get nailed. I can’t help but thinking, though, that this appearance is pointing in the other direction. Luskin is an extremely savvy ex-DOJ lawyer – there’s no way he’s putting Rove to face further exposure unless it’s a “sure” thing that they are going for the no-indictment, brass-ring. The stakes are too high. I wish it were otherwise but I think this is portending the end of our hopes for a Rove indictment. I pray -I sacrifice small mammals to propitiate the deities- that I’m absolutely wrong.

This is what Fitz’ day is like:

“One, two! One two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back.”

Rove consulted with his private lawyers before a scheduled afternoon court appearance and was prepared to answer questions about evidence that emerged since his last grand jury appearance last fall, the person said, speaking only on condition of anonymity because of grand jury secrecy rules.

That new evidence includes information that emerged late last year that Rove’s attorney had conversations with Time magazine reporter Viveca Novak during a critical time in the case.

[Source: Rove to Testify in CIA Leak Case Reply

Think they’re gunning for Cheney? Will Cheney ask Rove to go hunting with him? Stay tuned… Cinco de Fitzo indeed.

Hmmm. I think he’s toast. Fitz wouldn’t be wasting his time with the GJ unless Rover was on the hook. And didn’t all those new e-mails come out AFTER his last appearance? Should be an interesting afternoon.

PS and OT: Is there an over/under yet on Tony Snow? I give him six months.

while we wait, Maestro please . . .

linked text

sorry, couldn’t resist

Rove is some kind of principled hero…

this is their worst case scenario spin: bush and rove bent the rules to protect the nation and they are tough partisan warriors who went a little too far. jettison them and their radioactive poll numbers and joila! the conservatives are back on track…

again, a worst case scenario that hopes a presidential resignation or impeachment could be recovered from. not likely, but the gop has to be in full panic mode lately and who knows what they are thinking…

If I’m going to hazard a guess, I’d say that Rove will spend at least some of his time talking about evidence-tampering.

Could this be seen–strategically speaking–as the way to dump Cheney? Have Rove throw him overboard to Fitz? Rove’s ultimate loyalty is to Shrub, not Dead Eye. The WH would get rid of a boat anchor without having to do it themselves.

1,034 DAYS AND THE KILLING GOES ON!!

Marky,

“…I think the 4th Reich is already dead, the corpse is just twitching a little, that’s all”

I would like to implore you not to get complaicant…these folks and the power of their money have survived almost 100 years and were identified during the last World War and came back to the senate within 10 years (see Prescott Bush). We need to expose the whole oligarchy right now…the collapse of the oil economy makes the trusts that support these families vulnerable. Bush not only needs to be named in a RICO charge but an ongoing history project that describes the evolution of the American oil oligarchy and its close collaboration with German and Italian fascism should be started in the blogesphere. Take Kevin Phillip’s “The House of Bush” as a beginning bibliographic and go from there.

But no kid, these folks are a long way from dead but we have a moment here where we might be able to put a stake thru their collective heart and keep the Democratic Party from morphin into the Likud Party of Hillary, Schumer, Emmauel and AIPAC.

KEEP THE FAITH AND REMEMBER WHO VOTED FOR THESE BASTARDS!!

this is their worst case scenario spin: bush and rove bent the rules to protect the nation and they are tough partisan warriors who went a little too far. jettison them and their radioactive poll numbers and joila! the conservatives are back on track…

Well, except Rove had an attack of conscience and just couldn’t stomach the lies any more. The Republicans will accept his come-to-Jesus moment and welcome him with open arms to run their 2008 campaign. That’s *my* worry.

The more I think about this, the more likely it is that Rove will not wriggle out of this without giving up someone big. That would be Cheney.

Fitz just has too much information for Rove to be able to lie his way out of the webs of deceipt he has spun.

Rove would not go before the GJ unless he thought it would help him, and Fitz would not call him again unless Fitz thought he could get something out of it.

Lying cannot help Rove to get out of this because Rove doesn’t know the full scope of Fitz’s knowledge. Accordingly Rove doesn’t know which of his next lies will be the nail in his coffin.

So, my guess, Rove is there to nail Cheney to the wall.

Just a guess.

Question for the community.
Has Rove testified before THIS grand jury before?
If not, and this is only my opinion, Does Fitz want the new GJ to see Karl testify in person, and in his own words, instead of Fitz or another member of his team reading past testimony to the new GJ before an indictment is issued? More powerful to see Rove relate his testimony in person imo. In John Casper’s words, it’s a WAG (wild ass guess)

From Byron York

The source did not comment further, but one matter that has arisen since Rove’s last testimony — counting today, he has testified five times — is the involvement of Time’s Viveca Novak in the CIA leak matter. Last October, according to her own account, Novak received a call from Rove lawyer Robert Luskin in which Luskin said he had told Fitzgerald about a conversation he, Luskin, had had with Novak. The Rove side apparently believed the Novak conversation would be exculpatory for Rove, and it led to still more investigation by the grand jury — which may be the topic of today’s testimony.
4/26/06 The Corner

hmmm…still don’t see Rove flipping. Rove hasn’t testified since the whole Viveca Novak revelation. We know Luskin answered questions from Fitzgerald and there were about 17 weird stories floated in the press to explain how Vivac’s testimony cleared Rove, but they were all outlandish and none of them made sense. Rove is a control freak and I certainly believe he thinks he can explain the whole thing away.

I’m not a lawyer, so I’m only guessing here, but I think of it this way: the investigation starts by putting a lot of information under a microscope that is very out-of-focus. As the investigation continues, as people testify before the grand jury, and documents are produced for review, things begin to come into focus. Multiple appearances over time, by the same individual, say to me that the focus is narrowing. Each time someone appears and adds to prior testimony is an opportunity for the prosecutor to impeach prior testimony, and to establish a nexus that may be indictable. Rather than giving the impression that the person testifying is going out of his way to cooperate, multiple appearances would give me, if I were on the grand jury, cause to wonder how much more that person is withholding, and why.

I don’t think there is any way to cast Rove’s fifth grand jury appearance as a good thing for him, but it may portend good things for the investigation and for the possibility of more indictments.

Remember, folks, that this is a president that is intensely loyal to the likes of Rove – who probably has enough dirt on Bush and Cheney to bury them for good – so I am not surprised that Rove is still in an office in the White House, even if they have taken him off policy issues – at least publicly. He’ll probably have an office there until the jury renders a verdict of guilty.

Sorry for being stupid, but could someone tell me what the verb “EPU” is? I know its an acronym for “Evil Parallel Universe” and I know it’s the longtime screen name of our compay here at FDL, but how did it become a verb and what does it mean to be “EPU’d”?

carolyn urban 68:
in that vein –

mid-70s pop-prog rock group Ambrosia had a song called “Mama Frog” that included recitations from Alice in Wonderland, as well as this line, befitting of Rove:

“Trying to recall what they’ve said”

from the same album:

Nice, nice, very nice
So many people in the same device

Oh a whirling dervish And a dancing bear
Or a Ginger Rogers and a Fred Astaire

(Fitz / GJ is the device; the dancing bear is for Scooter)

Ok, I’ll speculate too. I’m leaning towards something #61 said. This MAY just be a case of this GJ wanting to get “their own measure of this man.”
In other words, we know Rove testified several times about the “I know nothing/didn’t happen” line. After other evidence emerged, Rove rushes back to the GJ with his revelation of newly recalled events, how he wants to correct the record, and excuse me, excuse me.
All of that was before an old GJ. A new GJ, with new people, have only been able to read the rather clinical transcripts of all this. Perhaps these new folks are at a point where, more than anything else, they want to “eyeball” this guy Rove. They want to get a gut feel for him.
Which could mean, if Rove is Mr. Sincere and Apologetic….these new folks on the GJ give him a pass.
Sure to be interesting!
Ghostman

A procedural question – is Rove and his attorney able to control to any extent the questions that Fitz will throw his way in the GJ? Or can Fitz surprise Rove at any point with a new line of questioning? Because I can only imagine what sort of questions Fitz might be able to cook up from those missing emails that surfaced and any new testimony from the other sources that has arrived since Rove’s last GJ appearance.

Big risk for Rove going in there. I have to guess it is to cooperate somehow. Lying for the fifth time will definitely come back to bite you.

Even if he cooperates, Rove will have to be willing to do some time, I would guess. It was one of Fitz’s conditions for Libby’s cooperation as well. So “wriggling free” for Rove would still require some penalties from a legal perspective. As for the political repurcussions? Wow.

I agree with #50, 56, 58, etc., that we won’t be seeing any indictments in the next few days. And I think all the speculation about Cheney is WAY too breathless.

But don’t tell me Rove is testifying yet again — with all the compound risk that entails — out of the goodness of his heart. He’s doing some serious sweating, and he thinks this risk is worth taking in order to reduce the chance that he ultimately will be indicted.

And make no mistake, an indictment would be a DISASTER for the WH. When Libby was indicted and gas prices were high, Bush’s popularity dropped by 5-10%. Rove is a bigger and much better-known name, he’s closer to Bush, and gas prices are even higher now.

He hasn’t left for health reasons, or to spend more time with his family, or to get out of Washington and back in touch with the campaigns in the field, because they still think they might be able to hold back the flood. But it’s all still very uncertain.

If Fitz ultimately decides to take him down, I’d look for some quiet Friday take-out-the-trash-day announcement of Karl’s “repositioning” long about Memorial Day.

ooh– via Raw Story:

Senate Democrats’ release: ‘Tony Snow, we have some questions for you’

http://www.rawstory.com/news/2….._0426.html

Anybody know for sure whose idea this was for Rove to testify before this grand jury? Rove or Fitz?

Jane: I sure hope Rove still thinks he can wriggle out of this without selling out either Bush or Cheney. That means he’ll dig himself in deeper with a new set of lies.

Rove thinks that the cocoon he’s been in since birth, the cocoon that Ben Domenech and George W. Bush lived in, the cocoon that protects those born to rich conservative movers and shakers, is capable of shielding him from all harm.

He’s about to learn otherwise.

Does Rove have a choice to testify or not? I thought that subjects are compelled to appear before the GJ. IANAL, obviously.

Here’s my developing theory about this:

First, Rove needs to answer questions not only about Vivnovka. But also about those missing 250 emails. As I pointed out here, it is much more likely that Rove’s side of the house was involved in Obstruction that Libby’s. So it is likely that Fitz gave Rove one more chance to explain those missing emails before he moves forward.

Now, both sides obviously have different motivations. Rove will perjure himself again if it means delaying indictments until after the elections. Delaying indictments–and winning the election and thereby preventing Dems from getting subpoena power is the most important thing right now. So he may be going in there to lie his ass off in the hopes it’ll buy him and Bush some time.

Meanwhile, Fitz is looking first and foremost at Cheney, only secondarily at Rove. So he may be giving Rove more rope, but he may also just be slowly developing the larger conspiracy case that with net Cheney and several others.

Oh boy Oh boy Oh boy Oh boy.I have been waiting for this MFr’s ass to hang for over a year now.When I really got hooked into Plamegate and Christy and Janes awesome coverage of this, I’ve had a hardon for this cocksucker ever since.I was soooo hoping Fitz was going to nail Rover at the same time he did Scooter.Evil motherfucker,evil.
GOOOOOO FITZ!!

obsessed says:
April 26th, 2006 at 9:31 am

His comments appeared quite frequently at or near the end of a thread, about the same time as the appeareance of a new thread.

John King just now– one of the preznit’s most trusted aides being grilled before a Grand Jury…

priceless.

What Busted said! Me so stoked!

punaise 84 – and that little ditty is cribbed out of a Vonnegut book; maybe Slaughterhouse 5?

Tim Grieve at salon.com:

CNN says Rove’s camp is hoping today’s grand jury appearance will put to rest “the few remaining questions” about his role in Plame’s outing and the way he has described it — or hasn’t — since then. We wouldn’t be so optimistic. As we’ve said before, Fitzgerald needs the grand jury’s help if he wants to indict Rove; he can decide not to seek an indictment all by himself.

these guys live and fight for tomorrow, not next week. rove says whatever gets him through today then crosses his fingers and starts digging in for the next fight…

Jane,

Since the White House has now merged its media operations more closely with its parent company Fox News do you think there will be any layoffs

I seems interesting to me that this was just “broke” as well

“Pentagon planners said to ABC News that they hoped to pull more than 30,000 troops out by the end of the year, and possibly by as early as November.”

Ooh, ooh look over here!

“it’s our boy Fitz”

don’t think the prosecutor would appreciate the use “OUR” in in this situation.
.

Rove is NOT in front of the GJ today for the 5th time b/c he’s about to be indicted. Rove has flipped, and is giving the GJ evidence about…DICK CHENEY (see my post from a week ago regarding Cheney getting a target letter).

If Rove and his lawyer and Fitz did meet earlier today, my guess is that there was an immunity agreement given to Rove so Fitz could compel Rove to testify in spive of Rove’s 5th Amendment concerns.

Cheney is going down.

Sidney Blumenthal had this last week.

Having successfully completed his most extensive investigation and prosecution, ending with the conviction of former Governor Ryan, Patrick Fitzgerald returns to the unresolved case before him. The federal grand jury considering his evidence began meeting again this morning. Karl Rove remains a subject–for now.
UK Gaurdian 4/19/06

re: definition of “EPU”

His comments appeared quite frequently at or near the end of a thread, about the same time as the appeareance of a new thread.

ah!! Now I get it! That happens to me all the time … it’s probably happening now!

punaise 84 -

Cat’s Cradle.

http://www.cs.uni.edu/~walling…..konon.html

More Fitz, soft at

http://www.regis-nyc.org/news……;Type=Main

Hope is alive and well, KR is going down…

Updated story, two sources now and this added:

http://www.localnewsleader.com…..;id=181744

Fitzgerald has told Rove‘s legal team recently that he has not made any decision on whether to charge the presidential aide and Rove hasn‘t received a target notification that would indicate he is likely to be indicted, the people said.

Why is the Amazon banner ad showing me pictures of topless women and ads for “Crotchless French Panties”?

obsessed, you illustrate why we need an FDL dictionary. EPU means you’ve posted a great thought on a thread after a new thread has been started, effectively consigning your brilliance to obscurity.

First, Rove needs to answer questions not only about Vivnovka. But also about those missing 250 emails. As I pointed out here, it is much more likely that Rove’s side of the house was involved in Obstruction that Libby’s. So it is likely that Fitz gave Rove one more chance to explain those missing emails before he moves forward.

I’m always gratified when emptywheel comes to the same conclusions as me.

The Viveca thing is a bit of a red herring. Not that it’s false — I’m sure Rove will be testifying about it — but that its significance is really in the larger context of evidence-tampering and obstruction.

BlanK 98:

the on-line lyrics to that song credit Vonnegut

(/ending OT diversion)

Emptywheel: Things are progressing too fast for any presumed Rovian efforts at further perjury to slow down the GJ now. Fitz has enough testimony now from Rove and others that proving perjury will take far less time than it did when Fitz had far fewer puzzle pieces and flipped sources to work with.

And again, Bush cannot pardon Rove. He does, and the Democrats win veto-proof control of both Houses this year.

The only way out for Rove will be to offer up both Cheney AND Bush. Nothing else will satisfy Fitzgerald.

Oops – that should be “the appearance of a new thread” in my previous post.

punaise 84:

Nice, nice, very nice
So many people in the same device

is a line from Kurt Vonnegut’s novel “Cat’s Cradle.”
Ambrosia-wow. That’s obscure. Way to go! Next you’ll be bring up Rick Wakeman albums, or something.

My stomach flipped over 3 times reading this post. If Rove is indicted, the Republicans can kiss Congress goodbye.

Thanks Christy, emptywheel, and everyone else.

keep going back to the Vanity Fair article wherein Floyd Abrams describes his attempts to head off Fitz from sending reporters to jail – at a lunch meeting in Chicago (6/04)

Abrams said Fitzgerald had told him that he was absolutely sure that his case was solid”

yep, the only 16 words that matter

I personally think the major focus will be about Woodward’s source and the circumstances surrounding that part of the timeline and Rove’s knowledge/involvement. But I’m firmly in the “give him more rope” camp…

My take on all this is that there is something in those emails that Rove has contradicted in previous GJ testimony. I don’t see him flipping on anybody (yet). Rove’s ego is so gigantic he thinks he can beat Fitz at his own game.

It’s like an episode of Columbo with Fitz saying, “Oh, and Mr. Rove, just one more thing…” And Fitz hands Rove a little more rope.

And how does Karl feel right now? Well, if his testimony starts at 1:00 PM (six minutes from now), he’s probably in the men’s room puking his guts out.

Around the time the last grand jury expired, I recall reading here that one can correct one’s testimony by re-testifying before the same grand jury, but once it has expired the false testimony is a felony. You can’t go before a new grand jury and say you’re changing the testimony you gave to the old one. That may be one thing Fitz has in his pocket, and one reason why letting the old grand jury expire without indicting Karl was a strategic decision by Fitz. Any lawyers know if this is true?

cleter 116 – trust me, you don’t want me to delve into my prog rock past…..most of it has not aged well (ELP anyone? Nektar? Gentle Giant? PFM?) But Gabriel-era Genesis remains classic IMO.

now back to our regularly scheduled frog-march watch.

as emptywheel says….

“Rove will perjure himself again if it means delaying indictments until after the elections. Delaying indictments–and winning the election and thereby preventing Dems from getting subpoena power is the most important thing right now. So he may be going in there to lie his ass off in the hopes it’ll buy him and Bush some time.”

I too have harped this point every chance I get…Delaying Supoena power is their goal….it will keep the entire ship of fools still afloat till pardon time

I think it is very important that we operate with the understanding that Fitz is Rove’s intellectual superior. I’ve never bought that Rove is an evil genius; he is just evil.

Fitz has been lied to repeatedly by Rove and his idiotic attorney. My belief is that this new appearance is just to get to the bottom of whether he can charge them with obstruction and evidence tampering.

punaise and cleter,

I’ll see your Brain Salad Surgery, and raise you a Tales from Topographic Oceans.

;-)

can someone verify Veritas78’s recollection in No 122. If accurate (and that’s how I remember it), then it will remove at least one of the available options for what is going on here.

mc – it’ll work for you, it worked for me
:~)

Free Republic’s got the real skinny:

“To: West Coast Conservative

There’s a remote possibility that Porter Goss gave Fitzgerald some info that shows that McCarthy had spoken about Plame to someone in the MSM and before Fitzgerald brings that reporter in he must make sure that Rove didn’t speak to them and thus giving them an alibi.

9 posted on 04/26/2006 9:34:58 AM PDT by tobyhill”

Phoenix Woman

You may be right. But that doesn’t mean Karl Hubris recognizes that fact. So while it may be quite likely someone is going down, Karl may do something stupid to try to forestall it.

But pardons are a moot point at this stage. Libby’s trial doesn’t even begin until after Midterms. Rove’s would take longer still. So it’d put the need to pardon in early 2007, after the election, but soon enough before 2008 that folks will forget the pardons.

We’ve got the felon Eliott Abrams running around this White House and that hasn’t hurt the GOP.

Punaise, I agree, Genesis still as heady as ever. I’ll still throw on some Yes from time to time.

punaise-
While we’re waiting for an indictment, can you clear up a prop rock question? In the ELP song Karn Evil Nine (the long second part, not the shorter bit that shows up on Classic Rock stations every now and again), is one of the lines:
Guardians of a new, clear dawn
Let the maps of war be drawn

I thought about that bit when I read the Hersch article about nuking Iran. I remember a furious debate amongst my prog rock friends in high school as to whether they are saying “new, clear” or “nuclear,” and whether it’s “maps of war” or “master’s war.” This was when we weren’t furiously arguing over whether or not Darth Vader was really Luke’s dad, of course.
Ok, back to Indictment Watch.

Dan Froomkin oonline now:
“White House Briefing Columnist
Wednesday, April 26, 2006; 1:00 PM
“What’s going on inside the White House? Ask Dan Froomkin, who writes the White House Briefing column for washingtonpost.com. He’ll answer your questions, take your comments and links, and point you to coverage around the Web on Monday, April 26, at 1 p.m. ET.”
Ask Dan Froomkin

Bethie @ 9:44 am (#102) – I don’t think it’s a coincidence, but for different reasons. If the Bush Administration waited for a day when there was no news about their malfeasance or stupidity to release favorable news, they’d have to hold off until 2009.

There’s absolutely no way Karl Rove is flipping. Make no mistake about it- KR is a true believer who has dedicated his life to a permanent Republican majority. If he flips on his bosses his life’s work is undone. He will try to dance and spin his way out of this, but if Fitz indicts him Rover’s lawyers will stall and delay until Rover gets a pardon from Chimpy. Listen- I would love to be wrong- it would be great if Rover threw Bush and Cheney under the bus, but I just don’t see that happening.

In support of what Jane Hamsher said a couple days ago. Take a deep breath people.

I can think of a half dozen boring reasons why Rove might be in the GJ today.

And I can think of one reason that will pop your balloons (sorry to be a wet blanket on your fun); in some circumstances when a witness testifies before a GJ and the witness mispeaks or misremembers, the witness has the right to come back and CORRECT the RECORD so long as that GJ has not expired or otherwise been concluded.

This may be a hail mary pass by Luskin.

The way I read this

- the Ryan case is over.
- Fitz took a long weekend to regroup and eat jellybeans and has now turned his attention back to this case.

- Rove has demoted himself in anticipation of possible indictment (rememeber how distraught he was just before the Libby indictment? He obviously feared the worst).
-Luskin and Rove have decided to make one more try at testilying to the GJ to try to “correct” (gag) or explain his prior testimony.

-I think Rove is just as unsure of what Fitz will do as the rest of us, and is probably checking this and other Plame obsessed websites hourly, so he is hoping for the best and preparing for the worst.

I’m thinking maybe emails. Fitz include a reference to them in a Libby filing as being missing. Then they get ‘found’. So, that’s something solid; real. For me, of course, I’d rather the ‘incriminatin” is the Oval Office, but it seems more likely the shooter. I’ll take an obstruction charge on Gonzo, though for ‘evidence tampering’ (losing the emails).

Besides there’s a certain satisfaction in the head of Justice who has written memos and ‘opinions’ creating spying and other police state stuff should be indicted for tampering.

Bush will have ‘plausibel deniability’ unless someone directly implicates him. Odds on that, anyone?

I have a feeling that the Turd will walk. Why ? Look at Barry Bonds case. Bonds has not been called back to testify but the feds are going after him for perjury and are calling his doctor, trainer etc…..It tells me Fitz is going after someone else, not Rove. Rove is cooperating to save his fat ass here.

My guess is Fizt wants Hadley and maybe Scooter will be charged with more serious crimes.

puzzled says:
April 26th, 2006 at 10:04 am

Pending corroboration of my comments in this post by the lawyers, I think that it would be safe to say, based on past discussions about this topic many threads ago, that Rove can’t use his testimony before a new grand jury to correct his testimony before the previous grand jury.

I think that you and Veritas78 are correct.

As near as I can tell, ANY additional indictments that come out of this grand jury will represent a huge defeat for the apologists and kool-aid drinkers, will further drop Bush’s JAR, and should further jeopardize GOP victory in November.

Fitz is not a political animal, but I’m guessing he will know delaying tactics when he sees them, and will not tolerate the likes of Rove attempting to manipulate the process in order to push the conclusions past Election Day.

Mc
I’ll see your Tales from Topographic Oceans, and raise you a Rick Wakeman’s “Journey to the Center of the Earth,” AND Justin Hayward’s “War of the Worlds.”

Maybe related? Raw Story now reporting rumors about BOB Woodward’s “short leash” and …

“THE spinners have spun at the Wash ington Post. Bob Woodward, and you can’t get hardly no more bigger name associated with that big newspaper, even talked the R-word. Resignation,” the New York Post’s gossip columnist Cindy Adams reveals Wednesday.

quick scan on mx subthread: Gabriel/Gen yes. But nobody’s mentioned ‘Renaissance’!

Veritas78 #122– I think this confirms your premise:

An indictment or information for violation of this section alleging that, in any proceedings before or ancillary to any court or grand jury of the United States, the defendant under oath has knowingly made two or more declarations which are inconsistent to the degree that one of them is necessarily false, need not specify which declaration is false if (1) each declaration was material to the point in question, and (2) each declaration was made within the period of the statute of limitations for the offense charged under this section. In any prosecution under this section, the falsity of a declaration set forth in the indictment or information shall be established sufficient for conviction by proof that the defendant while under oath made irreconcilably contradictory declarations material to the point in question in any proceeding before or ancillary to any court or grand jury. It shall be a defense to an indictment or information made pursuant to the first sentence of this subsection that the defendant at the time he made each declaration believed the declaration was true.

(d) Where, in the same continuous court or grand jury proceeding in which a declaration is made, the person making the declaration admits such declaration to be false, such admission shall bar prosecution under this section if, at the time the admission is made, the declaration has not substantially affected the proceeding, or it has not become manifest that such falsity has been or will be exposed.

(e) Proof beyond a reasonable doubt under this section is sufficient for conviction. It shall not be necessary that such proof be made by any particular number of witnesses or by documentary or other type of evidence.

http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/publi…..htm#VIIIA1

mc, cleter, carolyn urban – this sounds like a good topic for a Late Nite thread. my suggestion: let’s not clutter up this one any more (blaming self for getting it started!)

oh, and Fitz?: “Get ‘em out by Friday”

Haven’t read all the posts yet but it seems curious and curiouer that Rove will be testifying AFTER HE GOT DEMOTED…..

new thread – all bets are off!

Renaissance – “Sheherezade” hah hah

everhopeful says:
April 26th, 2006 at 10:16 am

You’ll find a link to that story on The Huffington Post.

The testimony before the old GJ would have to be represented to the new GJ. The way the expiration of the GJ trap works is that you indict during the last few hours of the GJ where the perjury took place so that the perjurer cannot say he did not have time to come back to correct.

That is, if your sitting GJ has 3 more weeks to go and you are otherwise ready to have the GJ vote the True Bill, you wait the 3 weeks, so that the witness cannot force you to dismiss by saying he needs to come back and retestify before the GJ expires. This is more common in general GJ than Specail GJ which oftetn conclude (rather than expire) when their purpose is done.

By representing to this GJ, I don’t think (And have not researched so this is speculation)that you get a “lock in” on the prior GJ testimony w/o the right to correct.

Reading olg G/J testimony inot the reacord of a new G/J is the functional equivalent of the live testimony itself. So, logically, I don’t see how Rove would be deprived of his right to correct the record before THIS G/J.

Sorry i don’t have time to look it up today. have 2 briefs due Friday and should not even be here at all am so pressed for time.

Blank Kludge @ 10:16 am (#143) – (OT) Been a fan of theirs since the mid-70s. It’s tough to find their albums on CD, though. Mostly compilations, “greatest hits” collections, etc.

Looks like Rove’s pals need to get their stories straight — or is it that the story is evolving under them as they try to spin? Guess we’ll see…
Oh Geez. It’s funny that nutwingers accuse lefties of being “puerile.” Rove and his minions are starting to resemble the characters in some Lifetime movie of the week, where three highschool girls have committed a crime . . .
Sorry couldn’t resist.

new thread

I am more sanguine about Angie’s post at #144.

The 2 inconsistant statements problem will be a much tougher row to hoe for Rove. His attempt to spin will be fruitless b/c you cannot get the benefit of correction if you do so once you have been caught or are about to be caught.

Rayne #17 sed:”caught between a falling JAR and a G-J.”

Rayne, I got hit by a falling JAR (of peanut butter) once. I can testify that it’s painful. Gave me a broken nose, a black eye and I still had to go give my piano recital two hours later.

Norske #19 – I’ll help with that research. IMHO, it will bring bright light on what’s up with the un-American activities of this crowd. The Walkers and the Bushes are not nice people. International Arms Dealers don’t need to be nice guys and never have to say “sorry”. That must be where Shrub gets it. And we’ll find out just how far back they go with the Saudis, too.

Prof #46 – Fitz-o-ween on which day we dress as our favorite indicted GJ liar. I’m short, so I’ll be Scooter.(no offense to other vertically challenged people, all offense to Scooter).

Punaise # Sea Train? Little Feat, the original cast?

punaise 145:

Agreed. I could go on all night (ad nauseum) about Yes…

;-)

Wait a second – Raw Story has a rumor about Woodward possibly resigning from WaPo. Like the “changes to Karl’s portfolio” announcement, I find the timing of this to be extremely relevant to whatever is going on with the Fitz Grand Jury today.

So are we keeping the Rove discussion here while the Evil Parallel Universe of Mike McCurray trying to destroy the internet evolves separately?

cleter 132 – not sure. the consensus of the online lyrics sites is “new clear dawn”. I don’t recall that debate raging in our circle (woah, dude, put on these headphones and check out the machine noises on “Wish You Were Here”). Some day I’ll rummage through the attic to find the LP sleeve, which may have had the lyrics printed (?)

good observation re the Hersch article.

woodward did seem a little somber on larry king last night and if rove was tossing out more info to fitz in order to delay the indictment, you’d think news of it would come out today… hmmmmm….

Just a quick aside on Fitz’s newly-discovered HS alma mater, Regis in NY. Probably the most brainiac Jesuit prep school in the country. Very difficult to get into – you can go from there to most any university of your choosing…

Here’s an interesting tidbit from ABC News that I hadn’t seen before:

“The source said Rove, a powerful and controversial political strategist, was asked to testify by special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald, that he would appear voluntarily and that he had not been subpoenaed.”

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=1892516

Cujo359,
You just outted me for blogging at work.
I just spit water all over my monitor when I read your post. Hee, hee!
Point well made.

I don’t understand–if it’s unprecedented for a suspect to make five appearances before a G/J, then is this a good thing from our perspective? If Fitz was ready to indict, there would be no point in recalling Rove. If he’s not ready to indict, putting Rove on the stand will not take the case closer to indictment–the only point of that would be if Rove offered testimony which would clear him of charges!

I don’t think Fitz cares about Rove’s strategy vis a vis the timing relative to the 2006 elections. He certainly didn’t care about the successful strategy of keeping Plame from stopping Bush from getting re-elected. I think Fitz is absolutely obsessed with the end result of winning the trial(s) and any appeals and every move he makes is going to be with the 100% motivation of maximizing his chances of winning those battles. I think he’d trade a 90% of a conviction, a year later, for an 80% chance of a conviction a year earlier. That’s just my take.

I think he is just crossing his “t”s and dotting his “i”s and making sure the noose is very tight and his charges are very focused before he jumps into something. Though legally, he has some options if he gets a detail or two wrong; in this toxic atmosphere, Fitz needs everything to be as perfect as he can make it. He has no time pressure at this stage, he can afford to do it on his own schedule.
Plus, everytime the big guy sneezes, more facts and informants seem to shake loose from the trees. If I were him, I’d pop over to the GJ whenever things got slow, just to see who else wiggles out from the woodwork.

NorskeFlamethrower,

http://bushwatch.org/family.htm

#162: I’m not sure that this means he isn’t ready to indict. I think it is definitely NOT a good thing for Rove that he was asked by Fitz to testify. I agree with #164 that it could just mean that Fitz is being extremely thorough.

Wait a minute here…I’d listen to Peter Gabriel any day
BUT
3L at 104
Where did you get the info that Cheney got a target letter?

Lawrence O’Donnell’s comments in The Huffington Post about Karl Rove’s return to the grand jury:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..19858.html

Karl Rove’s return to the grand jury today could mean the end of the Rove investigation or the beginning of the Rove prosecution. It depends on who asked Rove to return. If Fitzgerald asked Rove to return to the grand jury, that means Fitzgerald thinks he doesn’t have enough for an indictment.

If Rove asked to return to the grand jury, that means Rove’s lawyer, Bob Luskin, believes an indictment is imminent and is sending his client back to make a final desperate attempt to avoid indictment. Luskin did this once before when he told Fitzgerald about the Viveca Novak connection, which is certainly going to be covered in Rove’s testimony today. Luskin has experienced extreme mood swings in his willingness to talk to the press about this case. If a reporter can ask him one question today, it should be who asked Rove to return to the grand jury?

looseheadprop at #164 — I think that is exactly right., You never go before a grand jury without some specific purpose — you just don’t waste their time with trivialities if you can help it. But sometimes this sort of thing can truly shake up the case — so if thre is a targeted purpose for the appearance, you can use that to your advantage to not only find out information, but also for strategic purposes. (Plus, the G/J members themselves may have some questions for Karl, separate and apart from Fitz.)

Stephen Parrish, CPA

I should know this, but how does one get that “grey bar / box” for quotes?

I understand that normally a subject of a GJ investigation wouldn’t be too eager to testify again, but it’s my impression that Rove is in a different position from most GJ targets because he’s trying to win both in the legal and the political arena. That’s why I’m not so sure that any definitive conclusions can be drawn from whether or not Rove volunteered to testify or whether he was called by Fitz to do so. After all, the last time Rove went to the GJ to testify he did it “voluntarily” as well.

#151, I keep thinking that someone savvy ought to throw together an internet Lifetime-type story of Plamegate, told in installments, perhaps hand-drawn, with voiceovers – from the beginning. It’s always read like a novel, anyway.

Perhaps Ms Hamsher, who I understand has media/hollywood/tv (?) contacts could locate someone to toss something together. Or the South Park guys?

It would fascinate and educate. Because the jagoffs in the MSM, except for Olbermann really haven’t followed the story and this would bring them up to snuff, too.

Call me crazy, but I’m buying the Rove spin. I think it’s over. (Partly this is about not getting hopes and expectations up, but only partly.) I would change my mind if the answer to Lawrence O’Donnell’s question is that Fitzgerald is once again taking Rove-Luskin up on their offer for Rove to testify. But if Fitzgerald called Rove before the grand jury, I think it’s just as O’Donnell suggests: Fitzgerald wants Rove under oath to confirm his part of the Viveca Novak story, and then it’s over.

Christy- what do you think about Lawrence O’Donnell’ s remarks on Fitz not having enough (given ABC’s report that it was Fitz who asked for the testimony)?

My prediction: statement today from Rove saying he was just clearing things up for Fitzgerald, after being called by Fitzgerald to testify again. Fitzgerald meets with the grand jury Friday, confirms with them his judgment not to indict, and Fitzgerald announces that Rove is in the clear and/or that the investigation is over (and Armitage? I’m not sure).

I would be thrilled to be completely offbase, of course. But there it is.

punaise says: “…but how does one get that “grey bar / box†for quotes?”
April 26th, 2006 at 11:10 am

Go to the tags above the comment box and copy blockquote cite=”" and the carets on either side of it and paste what you’ve copied at the start of the text you want to enclose in a block quote. Next, if you haven’t copied anything else, go to the end of the text you want to enclose in a block quote and paste blockquote cite=”" and the carets on either side of it there. Finally, to close the tag, place a / between

Jeff- Really? I just don’t see the point of going to the trouble of convening the GJ and creating all this controversy if he’s just going to close the investigation. It just doesn’t make sense to me. If he was going to close the investigation why bother coming to the GJ at all? Maybe I’m just too optimistic.

RH – saw your email to Cafferty got read on air last night! good on ya. back to work. cant even lurk for a while. home puter shot sparks out its a** last night so I can only do drive bys at lunch.

My dream: Rove has turned and Fitz will indict Cheney on charges of illegally outing a CIA agent.

Hey, a girl can dream!

punaise – my post (# 176) is truncated. The last sentence should read as follows:

Finally, to close the tag, place a / between the

punaise – I may need to rephrase the final sentence of my posts to prevent further truncation of my comments. Let me try this:

Finally, to close the tag, place an / between the left caret in the second tag and the letter b in block… That should do it – hope that helps.

punaise – I may need to rephrase the final sentence of my posts to prevent further truncation of my comments. Let me try this:

Finally, to close the tag, place a / between the left caret in the second tag and the letter b in block… That should do it – hope that helps.

Please forgive the apparent duplicate post above – my post # 182 is a correction of post # 181, which I tried to cancel.

Here’s how you do it. Start with one of these:

then type or paste what you want to appear in the blockquote

then

then type again

Damn! It tricked me! It’s impossible to explain how to do it because it always takes the

fooled again! What you see in the preview is not what you get. YOu can’t use shift+, or shift+.

Well, we’ve got a first go at the answer to O’Donnell’s question. From MSNBC:

According to NBC News’ David Shuster, legal sources say Rove volunteered to testify and was no subpoenaed. Rove’s decision followed a recent conversation with Fitzgerald.

That second sentence sort of leaves things unclear. Did Fitzgerald basically tell Rove that if he testified about the Novak thing and everything looked on the up and up, he was likely to get off? Or did Fitzgerald tell him that it looks like he was going to be indicted, but if he wanted to try one more time, go for it?

punaise – one more correction to clarify what I posted: the carets I was referring to earlier are actually symbols for less than and greater than that are used in this instance to enclose a phrase in the same fashion as brackets or quotation marks.

Now back to our regularly scheduled breaking news…

Unless ABC is wrong Fitzgerald asked Rove to testify. I think the NBC report is basically confirming ABC’s report- Fitz asked Rove to testify, Rove did so without being subpeonaed. (forcing Fitz to subpeona him makes him look uncooperative and I believe could even cost him his job since Chimpy ordered the staff to “cooperate”) I sure hope O’Donnell is wrong about this.

Jeff,
Why so much pessimism? We frankly have no idea what is going on, but a betting person would say it’s more good for our side than bad.

Another way to learn how to do all these html tricks is to go to the file menu and choose “view source”, which shows you the entire page in raw HTML. Then just search for some text in one of the blockquotes and you can see how the poster entered the code.

Hmm. More news coming soon?

Raw Story just had an unliked headline that read something like:

“Truthout to report Rove offered deal…”

When I refreshed a couple of minutes later it now reads:

“REPORT: ROVE RECEIVED TARGET LETTER… SOON”

Could it be that Rove took the deal Fitz offered and was immeadately ushered into the GJ to get whatever he has offered up (*cough*Cheney*cough*) on the record?

Jeff at 187

If in fact, RRove is before the Grand Jury voluntarily, he is doing so to avert MORE charges, not to wrap things up. Witnesses are allowed to “correct the record” before a sitting grand jury to avoid purjury charges. Now technically, Rove is not before the sam eGJ, but there is a clever argument that because his previous testimony was presented to this GJ, and because the last GJ took no action (that we know of) then his testimony before this GJ clearing up the record should be treated the same as his clearing up testimony before the original.

My educated guess is that Fitz would meet with Rove and his attorney to set out the future indictment guidelines — along the ones I just proposed. This would not, however, in any way prevent the obstruction charges from being filed. In fact, if I was Fitz, when I met with Rove, I would allow Rove to

1) testify before the GJ
2) avoid perjury indictments (for the moment),
3) require complete candor,
4) offer in return to indict for lesser or fewer charges,
5) with the understanding that Rove would plead guilty to those charges and and testify against others.

That is what I see here today.

For what it’s worth, Raw Story is reporting that Rove received a target letter.

As Atrios notes, the Rovian-affilated sources (who have lied in the past) say that Fitz asked Rove. David Shuster’s legal sources say that Rove asked Fitz if he could come back.

I’m with Jeff in that I don’t think this equals imminent indictment.

But I also don’t see why you bring Rove before the GJ just to close the case. Either Rove testified about someone else (remember the rumors that he was cooperating), in which case Fitz did what he did with all his untrustworthy witnesses, got a statement, then had them testify before the GJ. Or Rove really is answering the multiple open questions, particularly about the emails.

Look, someone is almost certainly responsible for the lost emails. Rove likely had to tell a story about who it was, perhaps even under duress (which he or someone else spun as if her were cooperating). And it may well be that he he had to tell that story again today.

Even if he did, it doesn’t mean Rove is in the clear. It means Fitz can now interview whomever it is Rove blamed and try and get that person to explain what really happened.

Christy,

Did Fitz meet with Rove and Luskin before or after the Grand Jury testimony? (Afterwards might suggest that it didn’t go well and he wanted to cut a deal, wouldn’t it?)

Thanks,
Nina in MSP

last prediction: rove cuts a deal to throw cheney under the bus. this gets him off the hook for now, gets rid of the incredibly unpopular cheney who will now join scooter as martyr until november, and places the ‘08 successor within the administration. also, creates the conventional wisdom that the evil cheney worked alone at this and everyone else is free and clear…

Did you guys catch the little nugget from John at Crooks and Liars that Noron reports Rover will be issuing a statement later today? This seems quite exciting to me- can you say resigning? As for Jason Leopold- very well intentioned but very often dead wrong- I wouldn’t take anything he writes to the bank.

Nina- Reports seem to indicate that Fitz met with Rover and attorneys before the testimony, but I’ve seen some things that indicate it’s not clear if Fitz really did even meet with Rove.

I guess we know why he was demoted now! How predictable! Can’t wait for Fitzmas in July!

Ha!

The subpeona/no subpeona thing is a red herring. The only way Karl would back off his “volunteering to testify” stance would be if he was certain that Fitz would indict. He will never be certain until the day a True Bill is voted b/c Fitz cannot legally (de jure) say that Kaqrl will be indicted in advance of the GJ voting a true bill.

Ham sanwich wisecracks aside, it is the prosecutor who decides who to SEEK and indictment against. It is the GJ who decides who to RETURN an indictment against.

Does anybody think that Fitz is arrogant enough or stupid enough to say that he is “gonna indict” anybody before the fact? Come on guys, we know better.

Christy,
Maybe it’s time for one of your wonderful law tutorials. You know, how about Grand Jury Procedure 101 for the folks? It will ease anxiety and squelsch false premises and be a fun way to pass the time waitng for the next Fitz fix.

You can lift the US Attorney’s Manual from the DOJ website http://www.usdoj.gov unless they have changed the address again (it seems like they change it all the time).

Rove will testify if he believes it will make a positive difference: for himself or (secondarily) his cause. Cheney won’t testify at all.
That’s why I think, strategically, Fitz will prosecute Cheney first. Only when that contingency is exhausted will he prosecute Rove.

lawrence odonnel has been in over his head a couple times on this story. it’s difficult for him to accept he isn’t an expert on this…

emptywheel – Are you really that confident that there is a story to the lost emails, and that Rove led Fitzgerald to them?

Let me put it this way: I’ve become increasingly convinced that there are some people in DC who serve as sources for some of the stories unfriendly to the White House who, to put it generously, let wishful thoughts mix with their information.

But I also don’t see why you bring Rove before the GJ just to close the case.

Maybe you’re right. But I could imagine Fitzgerald both wanting to get Rove under oath to tell his part of the VNovak-Luskin-Rove story, and wanting to run things by the grand jury, if only out of respect for it as the final judge on what to do.

Raw Story is reporting Rove received target letter- details to follow.

Raw Story has been wrong many times in covering this story. Absolutely no credibility.

I read somewhere that Fitz had SEIZED hard drives from administration computers.

Is there any documentation to this?
How do you get a search warrant to search the Executive Offices? If it’s true, when this is over, that petition is going in the Smithsonian.

“Raw Story has been wrong many times in covering this story. Absolutely no credibility.”
The only thing I know they got wrong was that Rove was not indicted in the first round. But just about everyone got that wrong.

Anything else you can think of?

Story’s up at truthout. . .

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/042606I.shtml

How reliable is TruthOut?

A target letter is HUGE.

A target letter is…

DO THE HAPPY DANCE TIME !!!

Godesses, I need some divine guidance. Do I put my faith in TruthOut?

Jeff

Let me put it this way: I’ve become increasingly convinced that there are some people in DC who serve as sources for some of the stories unfriendly to the White House who, to put it generously, let wishful thoughts mix with their information.

I agree with you here 100%. But I’m not making that claim based on the reports from people who may have been snookered by sources only apparently unfriendly to the WH. As I’ve been saying for months, there is clear evidence someone tampered with evidence relating to Rove’s Cooper conversation (not just the email, but also the phone log). And that we know, from court filings, that Fitzgerald has gotten a new lead on what may be those emails. So I strongly suspect someone will go down because of the crime; it doesn’t have to be Karl. But there is too much evidence to believe it will just be dropped.

Besides, it’s Republican scandal 101. Things really start to get interesting when evidence of their deleted PROFs notes or tapes come forward. We’re at that stage now, I think.

This was updated on the USA today link:

Update at 4 p.m. ET: CNN’s John King just said Rove is still inside the courthouse. Reporters are outside, “staking out” the exits. King said neither Rove nor his lawyer are expected to speak to the media when they depart.

King also said that the lawyer, Luskin, released a statement saying Rove testified voluntarily and that Fitzgerald has not decided whether to bring additional charges in connection with the case.

mx/ot:

Has there ever been a more appropriate time for King Crimson’s 21st Century Schizoid Man?