fitz

If you’re first to jump on a FDL thread, yell Fitz! And if you don’t, don’t complain about those who do. We like it.

Try to read the comments above before you post–especially if you have “breaking news”! (Or at least skim through them to be sure it’s not already covered.)

I love the nicknames. It really does help cement their past behaviors in my mind. Whenever I see Steno Sue, Tweety, Pool Boy, or any others (said commentary that there are so many), it reminds me to take their writing with the proverbial grain of salt.

I appreciate the de-lurking and ask questions. I’m learning how to do html via last night’s thread.

FDL – where I always learn something new.

Forgot this part:

I still think a link to a glossary or other type of link in the sidebar would be helpful.

I thought the suggestion of a glossary was good. The occasional replay of de lurk would bode well.

I say, just hang on and catch on as you can. You might occasionally put the real name (i.e. Tweety = Chris Matthews) once in awhile just in case there is any doubt. At all.
Mostly just keep on doing what you are doing, and thanks for the chance to un-lurk!

Webfeats in Oregon

How about a sidebar set of links labeled “Blog FAQ’s”. Underneath would be listings for:
General etiquette
Acronyms
Nicknames
Etc.
The ideal situation would be a Wikipedia style setup that bloggers could contribute to and provide passive access for viewers.

Great question Jane. I’ve been hanging out here for a bit now (was phoning & faxing on cloture, for ex) and rarely comment. Mostly because all the other great folks here usually ask what was on my mind well before I do :) but also, gotta say, bc 100+ comments are, well, kinda intimidating… and 500+ last night! Whew! But yes, it means growth in FDL land, and how can that be bad? I am in awe of what you’ve accomplished. Ya done good!

Anyway – with all these folks, community memory does get scattered. How about a FAQ, always available by a link at the top? Anything that gets asked more than, say, five times, put it in the FAQ. I feel it’d both reduce repeated questions, and make new folks feel at home faster. Whaddaya think?

MHO: We keep doing things the same way, letting the system evolve as it will.
To resolve the step-onboard-a-fast-train challenge, we put together an FDL Wiki: history, terms, nicknames, all kinds of FDL lore. It’d be great for all of us. Educational, entertaining, and a resource for lurking media-types.

I second Suzanne’s suggestion above. A glossary link in the sidebar should surfice.

That “mark” was “marksb”. Sorry. Long week.

Have a question/answer/delurk session once a week?

EPU’d: War talk: spoke to many family members about concerns re war with Iran. Some folks are from Ohio, so am bringing up voting machine fraud with the League of Women Voter types. Working with people at their level of understanding, bringing them along gently.
Surely if you had told me 3 years ago that our government would lie us into a war of aggression, I would have expressed profound disbelief.

shooter 242 is on the right track. A simple FAQ between recent posts and calendar on the LH side might help a lot. Most blogs don’t address etiquette directly, and this place polices the grounds better than any unit I’ve served with since the 245th Aviation Company, US Army

Glossary and FAQ would be fine. Maybe wiki is overkill. But it’s getting to be a challenge to keep up, especially with the busy season firing up in my business.

FDL glossary named Fitzaurus.

Jane,

Perhaps you could post a glossary of nicknames (who’s called what and why) and then archive it as a seperate category so it would be easy to spot in your list.

I’m all for a FAQ esp. if it is developed by the community. There’s no way Christy and I have the time to put together anything that elaborate. Any suggestions about the best way to go about it?

Maybe you could have a special page dedicated to nicknames, along with the real names, and abbreviations with their meaning, etc? Similar to your categories classification?

Just a thought.

I agree on the nicknames – and also think it’s a good community reinforcement. There’s that wonderful moment when you suddenly realize you are up to speed and then you know you’re a “jane hamsher of the left” and will never get enough sleep again!

Practically, I think a little faq or glossary would be lovely though it would spoil the adventure quality a bit. Part of me wants to say that being baffled for a while is the price of admission and we all learned and readership keeps growing so it can’t be a dreadful problem but … it would be so much more inclusive to have a glossary for those who want one.

One thing I noticed is that the shorthand items mentioned last night seemed split between just standard online slang (iykwim) and the FDL specific lingo. If we did a glossary, I’d simply link to one of the good online terms sites (there are millions) and then provide entries for FDL codes which could be added as they emerge.

Last night’s thread was great. I’m glad Jane is doing it again. I have no good answer to the question posed here. I will say that I have tried to get several politically-minded, liberal friends interested in blogs. But they always feel lost. (And the blogosphere is very self-referential. Really, if you don’t know what “The Corner” is, you’re not going to get half the jokes at TBogg, who I love BTW.)

My one contribution, I do know where the ponies came from (”Holden gets a pony.”). You can find the definitive story of its origins here: http://atriotisms.schtuff.com/holden_gets_a_pony

A link to a glossary would be good. I figured out who the “characters” are from context and links. But IIRC or wrt–no clue. I thought maybe I’m too old, or too unhip, living on the dark side of the moon, as I do. But the key is in shared conversation over a period of time, and I joined in reading when it was well underway.

How about building a little wiki about each “character” and then hyperlinking to it from the nickname. The wiki could then refer to other posts regarding that persons history and related facts and commentary.

Might be a great way to keep the heat on them as well. Your snark is really delicious, would be nice to keep referring back to it, and keep hammering on past travesties as well as new ones.

de-EPUing myself from the fitz thread below… plus can add back the mysteriously missing link. musta messed up the html.

hope this isn’t epu-able but take another look at the fitz photo… he’s standing right in halo territory. couldn’t help noticing a certain meaningful resemblance.

http://www.tarotpassages.com/i…..ustice.jpg

Jane- hmmm… trying to figure out what I can offer… first off, I remember you saying a good while back that you try not to use nicknames without first giving the real name, so that is “testimony” on my part. I find the nicknames amusing, even if I don’t get them at first. imo, it would burden your crisp toast-burning style to cut these out, or try to over-explain. I like the fact that FDL is a fast moving train. But/ and, I really enjoyed the “de-lurker” thread. A lot of helpful links- esp. on HTML tutorial, and how to refresh and not have to scroll back from the top. So, perhaps a “de-lurker” thread could be an occasional but regular feature on Late Nite.

Also, the KOS community has managed to keep several threads ongoing simultaneously. TPM Cafe too, etc…. We lose synergy here when we all abandon a thought train to jump to the next thread.

I’m completely addicted to this blog and I think most people who do visit quickly end up in the same condition. The nicknames and whatnot, they stick after a few visits — and I’ve never known a genuine question on FDL to be met with a disrespectful answer or attitude.

I’m of a mind to say ‘if it ain’t broke don’t fix it’, although the impulse to make all this more accessible is a good one.

and who was that XTX agave dude, anyway?

Very clever Southpaw! Fitzaurus . . . L’edOL on that one. Sure beats being so frickin’ angry all the time about what is going on in the government and MSM. Thanks for the late nite laugh.

Hi Jane,

Getting into this stuff can be a bit like jumping onto a moving merry-go-round. Having a googleable site that decodes this stuff would be a big help. That’s how I learned what “IIRC” meant.

I liked that it took me a few days to figure out who “Tweety” was. It was like joining a club.

That said, maybe it would be more welcoming and egalitarian to make newbies more welcome at the start.

That said, I’d counsel those who like the site, to maybe attempt to become a geeky word puzzlehead (like me) who likes to figure out acronyms (both Gov and not) and who doesn’t mind not understanding some kewl kid lingo for awhile, knowing that the AHA moment will make former ignorance all the sweeter.

With or without a newbie glossary — this is one of my most favorite blogs. Keep up the good work.

I also heartily second or third or whatever the idea of a weekly delurk sorta thread – that was wonderful and it allowed folks to pop in, ask questions, just sorta chat amongst all of us without newcomers feeling like they had to have something new and pithy to add to a specific topic.

Jane, How about adding a category called “What’s that?” in the right box, then link the delurking threads there.

Hey,

You could code “Steno Sue” so that when a new reader lets her cursor hover over the words a bubble immediately pops up with a brief backgrounder explaining the power of the nickname.

I wouldn’t mind seeing these “people’s” faces once-in-a-while either. Sorta like having visual flash cards that help you identify poison ivy and oak, stinging nettles, poisonous mushrooms and the like.

I do think it is a good idea for people to use the proper name first in a FP posting or a major reponse because using a nick name.

A second issue that gets me in some responses is big blocks of type without paragraph breaks.

In designing documents that will be read off a monitor I make a point of telling my clients to plan on a break about every 4 lines or so.

Personally, I find with my oldish eyes I simply can’t follow line upon line of copy. I know I miss a lot of good work because of it.

And I second a link to one of the good glossary sites high up on the main page. Perhaps as we develop more idiosyncratic language someone can volunteer to maintain an FDL glossary. Beyond EPU, I don’t know of any terms particular to FDL.

Finally, what might be fun is a way for members to list a brief kind of bio (only about 100 words) that might help newcomers understand who is who. For instance I notice punaise is becoming the resident punster and looseheadprop and others have legal backgrounds.

Soemthing that each member decides would help others understand where they are coming from might help newcomers. I’m not suggesting anything too serious, just a way that helps explain some of the madness here without impeding it.

Setting up an initial FAQ might grow out of last night’s experiment. Try a “delurking night” once a week or so for about five or six weeks, then blend them into a “best of FDL” post that becomes a FAQ.

[FAQ = Frequently asked questions, just to be clear]

Although I’ve been a dedicated FDL reader for about six months, this is my first time delving into comments-land. Now that I’m here, I find that other readers are thinking the same thing I am, which is that a reader-maintained wiki could be a tremendous contribution–not only to FDL readers, but possibly to the larger blogosphere as well.

And while I’ve got my yap open, I’d like to offer a thousand thanks for the fabulous FDL and all who make it what it is!

I would recommend against FAQs, glossaries, wikis. What will you do, explain the entire concept of the internets to people who’ve been linked here?

If you’re interested and intelligent, you’ll figure it out. And that’s the fun. Encyclopedic definitions of terms like “Steno Sue” and “Tweety” don’t give the proper context. People gots to read the archives. It takes some effort to be engaged.

Why not post a glossary page, available to all visitors, that explains your use of nicknames and/or acronyms. I came late in the game to your site and a few have baffled me, though context usually is enough to get a rough estimate of the person’s identity. A glossary would help a lot on most sites.

Actually, it might be as simple as hyperlinking to the meta archive of that subject.

Anyone stumped or curious could hit a hyperlink and read all past posts (as long as they are categorized, which in itself is a bear)

As for the IIRC’s etc. there are plenty of glossaries.

As far as EPU, Jane HAmsher’s of the left, etc. Maybe thats just for those of us who cant fall asleep until we check in here, afraid that if we miss something we’ll feel not quite right. AFter all, easy to learn, hard to master is what keeps most things interesting.

Maybe just link to the Kossary, a glossary of blog terms on the DKosopedia. The Dkosopedia is something any of us can contribute to, why not leverage the existing infrastructure. Then we could make an effort to flesh out whatever terms are missing.

I think “Fitzaurus” is awesome, but save it for the Fitz-related stuff. Someday, Karl will have done his frogmarch, Fitz will be a federal judge, and I hope we’ll all be here still, reminiscing about the trial. The newbies (then numbering in the millions) will still need a resource they can make sense out of.

Nicknames…Tough call.

I cringe when I see them on many of the sites that I frequent. I find it particually bothersome both here and I believe on The Left Coaster (where the use of Bu$Hitler i believeis common).

It bothers me because it lowers the level of discourse a bit on what I think is an excellent blog. I tend to roll my eyes when I see too many nicknames…partly because of the nicknames and partly because Christy and Jane are such quality writers that they shouldnt need to use them in the first place. I would rather see the crafty use of facts and language to totally eviscerate someone (ala Wolcott) than resorting to nicknames to get the point across. I feel it lowers the credibility of the blog when I see it, especially when I see Josh Marshall and Glenn Greenwald getting their point across with skillful writing and spot on analysis.

On the other hand, the blog has taken on more of a netroots type activist slant that is working to push back against the righy blogs/talking points shillers etc, and the nicknames are being used to insert a meme or get people fired up.

I guess it all depends on the type of audience you want to reach, in terms of readership and influence. I personally would like to see less use of the nicknames….but be used when most appropriate.

Calling someone (for example) Chris “Tweety” Matthews the first time you mention him in a post and then Tweety from there on in might be a good compromise step. It’s simple to do, doesn’t require a sidebar glossary, and isn’t too intrusive for the oldtimers.

If you’re first to jump on a FDL thread, yell Fitz! And if you don’t, don’t complain about those who do. We like it.
–Dana

I hardly think that making arbitrary rules such as the one you are suggeting, Dana, would be helpful to FDL’s train, or some of the other “We’s” on FDL, in any way shape or form.

Bionic @35:
A second issue that gets me in some responses is big blocks of type without paragraph breaks.

In designing documents that will be read off a monitor I make a point of telling my clients to plan on a break about every 4 lines or so.

Thanks! White space is critical in reading text online.

I knew all these people before reading FDL, but the nicknames were new to me. THE KEY IS TO PROVIDE LINKS – when Jane or Redd are passionate about something, you want to know what’s up, so you click the link and, voila, you’ve learned a nickname.

shooter242, 8: “The ideal situation would be a Wikipedia style setup that bloggers could contribute to and provide passive access for viewers.”

I second the motion. Wiki-style sidebar references would be good. There may be plug-n-play wiki packages out there already. They should be pop-ups so you don’t lose your place on the main thread.

Even so, I would caution stepwise and incremental changes. Unless you got big bucks, slow and steady is the better way to grow. I mean even getting this far was probably traumatic to the site’s owners.

Even if you do nothing more, it is still a great blog.

One thing would be nice: when Jane or Christy or whoever is ready to put up a new thread, could they post a “New Thread Alert” on the current thread? Might reduce some of the frustration of being EPU’d. Just the three words is fine.

Well, it is the *web*, you know. You could link the first occurrence of each name in an article to a glossary entry.

From the frequency of questions asked about Jane and Redd, some bios of the bloggers might be appropriate. For guest bloggers this might also include their home websites. Also, you might consider a news section, like the Kos thing or when one or both of you are going to be on TV or interviewed, or when there will be awards, or when you have won awards…whatever news that the whole community will want to know maybe in the left or right margins.

Agree that a glossary would be a useful tool. Even though I’d visited your site several times, it took awhile before I figured on that FDL in comments at other blogs stood for firedoglake!

Don’t forget Sandpaper Snatch! (or Poland, for that matter)

I’m with Joe D, folks’ll figure it out. Don’t make any more work for Jane. Maybe some enterprising lurker will start this service and allow the royals to link up. Atrios would, I’d bet.

zAmboni, there are good nicknames and poor ones. “Bu$Hitler” is an example of a strident, for-our-own-kind nickname that plays to the insiders but looks stupid to outsiders.

“Tweety”, “Steno Sue”, etc. are useful nicknames, they are meant to deflate the self-appointed arbiters of our discourse. They need to be knocked off their high-horses, and caricaturing those in power is a time-honored form of resistance.

Jane- part of the question about how the community could contribute to a glossary or to FAQs rests on what kinds of options are available to FDL via word press. If there is a way that you can have a post that is separate from the normal posts, that would be a start. That would be a place to contribute to the glossary or FAQs. But, that would require moderation, and I’m sure that would be an un-timely burden. I really don’t think that FDL should take responsibility for explaining common internet acronyms- that’s something that people can figure out via googling, if they are motivated. Though, again, I thank people for responding way back when I asked “what does DINO mean”. Sorry, just kind of “brainstorming” (polite description).

An Acronym-a-Thaurus!!!

By whatever name, an FDL sidebar wiki link, that anyone can reference, and anyone can contribute to . . .

An FDL wiki, that answers:

What is EPU’d?

What is SCLM?

What is (whatever)?

dear jane(and enquiring fdl collective soul)
i am relatively new to the blogs-but not to you.you’re gonna hate me for saying this,but about 2 yrs ago i was idly picking through books on a library shelf,looking for books about scriptwriting,screenplays&c.and i found a book called killer instinct by…jane hamsher.and i really loved this book.i remembered that name,and found fdl thru one of those magic idle googles.you can’t even imagine how pleased i was unless something like that has happened to you.and check it out!jane’s gone all political!my kind o’political!
anyhow since then,the blogs have gone critical,and im not surprised that you wound up with one of the core blogs,because it is in your nature(it seems)to arrive just in time for critical mass
you originally attracted my attention because of a militant strain of anti-elitism,and i thank you for that.alot of blogs wont let posts of new and/or unknown people stand on the threads.well,if people take down your posts,your not really in the game,are you?
i was disappointed by elitist attitudes taking over blogs that started out fun im glad you want to stop fdl from being turned into a chatroom or only for an elite group of people who are well known.i am an unknown artist and i want to keep it that way
maybe you could post a column on one side of the page of obscure references and make it like a wiki so everybody could add stuff as it comes into the discourse.everybody-eat a peach for peace,trash

VG is very right about the fast moving train being something we like. It is working and so tempting to say don’t change a thing.

*dward Teller & all – I’ve meant to mention this for a while – the site which links at my name is a small site a group of us designed when Billmon shut down his comments. It’s available to any FDLer (with proper manners) who wants to use it – anyone can start a new topic and keep it going so you can invite someone to join you there and just keep going. The concept of LeSpeakeasy was to have a spot where everyone could be the billmon and also where we could have a spot to post pictures of our gardens or host a book club or film discussion club or such. As I said, it’s available to FDLers to use if ever handy. It also has a way to exchange email like messages without disclosing your email address if that worries you and so folks should feel free to use it if they want to connect about something without exchanging addresses and without having to ask Jane to play intermediary. http://www.lespeakeasy.org
(not meant as blogwhoring but as offer of a backroom when needed – we’ve stayed under the radar and have no ambitions for the site or desires to drive traffic there – in fact we were proud to be unlinked at google for a very long time – we just want to offer it for anyone who can put the capability to good use.)

If you won’t link to a lonely special prosecutor’s blog, will you at least date me?

Yours truly,
PJF

I agree with puppethead (#41). A link to Kossary and a recurring “open thread,” as others suggest, on some designated late-nite would suffice. The Kossary gives everyone the blog acronyms, and a thread like last night’s gives people the context and dynamic of FDL exchanges while also introducing them to the personalities and some of the idiosyncratic language here (EPU, Fitz, etc.). Late-nite also shows how welcoming this place is to newcomers. And LN is also safe, as punaise says: What goes on on Late-Nite stays on Late-nite. It’s a thread that allows everyone to play or be serious.

Love the honesty of all this.
Taking in information, news, current events is no longer a passive activity. It requires a lot of work on everyone’s part, even though many don’t have the time or inclination. I like FDL the way it is. Even though it is a big commitment, it’s a passion to follow the kinds of events detailed here. But there are times when I simply can’t keep up, and when I come back I just try to dive in and understand what’s going on even though I’ve missed new stuff and I think I’m glued. Perhaps some sort of community generated wiki thing can happen, but someone would have to monitor it. The open forum the other night seemed to work in this way. But I think there’s usually some kind of sporadic redundancy that happens in this way very naturally where people just ask the question they have and someone gets them an answer.

Depending on the kindness of strangers is iffy in most venues, but it seems to work well here. (Thanks to Jane and Redd, and their many collaborators/friends.) I’m not against a FAQ, but I do think that it might prove awfully front-loaded in terms of the labor involved in the initial setup.

I remember my first attempts to learn another language, and belatedly realizing that the willingness to be a bit of a holy fool is probably the most effective strategy. Make people laugh with your earnest but awful attempts to say something in their language, and they’ll usually be willing to set you straight without dissing you, just as people do here every day.

To be honest, I’d miss that, even if a FAQ or Wiki were more efficient.

Ed*ard Teller says:
and who was that XTX agave dude, anyway?

It is much hoped that that will not become a FAQ.

On nicknames: I myself never use nicknames or putdown names because if I can’t express myself through the power of reason and persuasion, nicknames and invective are not going to help me. However, if using nicknames juices people up in their writing and gives them the adrenaline to make their case, I do not object to it.

The problem, if there is one, is when someone comes here who is not into the “culture” of this blog and gets turned off by some of the redolent nicknames, then you take the chance of losing that person’s openness of mind and willingness to hear you out. That is the chance you take using obscenity-laced, or dismissive nicknames. Writer’s choice, but I would never tell someone not to use nicknames. If it’s their style, it’s their style, and they live with the consequences.

Snark if something else. It is great when creative and on-point, but distracting when the whole article is snark and no analysis or content. (Just talking generally here, not about anyone who writes here.) James Wolcott, for one, who is greatly admired by many, I often find mostly snark. He uses snark to back up his modest amount of content, where it should be a little snark to back up good content. And his ideas are seldom original. That’s just my opinion on Wolcott, and anyone is free to disagree.

By contrast to Wolcott and to use Matthew Arnold’s touchstone principle, the gold standard of good blog writing is Josh Marshall. Nuf sed. The touchstone idea being, if you want to know how good a blogger you are, compare yourself to Josh.

All in all, Jane and Redd and all the other authors here have fine balance and express themselves convincingly and persuasively. There is not a hell of a lot this blog needs to add to stay top-drawer.

I don’t mind having to figure out the nicknames for myself. I remember laughing out loud when I figured out who Tweety was (while reading The Poor Man) — I recall thinking, dang, CM does have a misshapen Tweety-like head!

Ultimately, blog-speak is a shibboleth that allows adherents to converse freely among their own kind. A badge of honor. A campaign ribbon. It’s something you kind of earn. I can live with that, even if it is a pain in the arse for us newbies.

William – I’m leaning towards your view. I just found myself thinking “well, if we had a faq then when someone asks a question, lots of folks would just send them to the faq instead of sharing the info – and the sharing of the answers is such a neat process with newcomers becoming oldtimers and having the answers to pass along – and all the little bits of context that get added in that process. so yeah, let’s not change a thing! (revising my opinion)

oh, and William – guys in tuxes are hot – so enjoy those fancy duds and know that all the ladies will be charmed.

I generally try not to use nicknames and other shortcuts that the casual visitor won’t understand. Some of it, like the “EPUd” stuff, just isn’t helpful.

TGIF!!

The de-lurking last night was de-lightful. Lots of people just jumped right in, and everybody was cordial and welcoming. I read and post on KOS, PA, and FDL. While all three are ‘liberal’ blogs, each has its own …flavors (?)…. One flavor of FDL is the flexibility of acceptance, or at the very least giving a fair hearing. And what we read and wrote about sharing our knowledge and experience really happens all the time. It is just that last night, it happened to be the actual topic of discussion.

There is no real reason to avoid nicknames. They exist for a reason. (Sociologists – here’s your chance!) I imagine the bloggers at FDL will continue their generous sharing as newbies come along. It’s a beautiful cycle: New, treated well, participate, ask, learn at your own pace, share with all, including incoming newbies.

seems like the main things needing to be defined are “EPU’d” and how to pronounce Pach’s name… other than that, seems most figure it out…and it doesn’t hurt to ask.

Betty Cracker! I love that name!

jcricket – nice!

“Tweetyâ€, “Steno Sueâ€, etc. are useful nicknames, they are meant to deflate the self-appointed arbiters of our discourse. They need to be knocked off their high-horses, and caricaturing those in power is a time-honored form of resistance.

puppethead, yea I know…guess there should be some magic balancing act. The nicknames are useful in umasking the people for who they are, but it will be a hinderance when trying to influence the people who pay their checks.

I dont think that Jane, Christy and others need to change their writing style to conform with this or that convention, but they shouldnt be suprised if their efforts arent taken seriously by the employers of those being mocked

A glossary might be fun just for the ability to put your own creative spin on whatever description you would like to impart.

But I went to Google and put in Steno Sue first and then Tweety. A relevant and clarifying entry for Steno Sue was right at the top. Tweety was further down the page after 15 or so cartoon related entries but the Tweety entry was for a Kos piece about Tweety hearting Delay.

If folks want to get up to speed on just about anything these days, Google is just sitting there waiting. I’m a recent appreciator of FDL and I really like the irreverant, totally accurate and ultra “in your face” quality of the writing. I think the lingo of FDL and the blogosphere is an enticing aspect of the experience and picking it up with some investigation and not being spoon fed just adds to the sense of belonging once it starts to feel like decoding just isn’t needed any longer.

Instead of FAQ’s as many have suggested, (I hate FAQ’s because I never find my question) calling it blogisms and link it to every post. It took me a long time to figure out who “steno sue” was. For a long time I thought it was a generic name for anyone who copy and pasted a White House list of talking points.

siun,

thanks!

Just off the phone with daughter who gets to race on varsity for Western Washington U. for the crew regatta at the Opening Day Regatta in Seattle on May 6, hosted by the U of W. She was a walk-on this year, so my wife and I are pumped. Wish we could be there.

Off to watch “Brokeback Mountain” on video with my wife.

As one who’s been here from the start, I have no problem with the peculiarities of the local speech, nor with the idea of a FAQ.

But tell me, who among us would have the literary facility and courage to give a brief definition of “old 60 grit” in a FAQ?

Bravo to ET daughter and crew – what neat news!

Slightly OT (off topic) — but Big Oil is doin’ to ClusterFuck’s excellent Iranian adventure what we could never do . . .

There is nothing like $3 to $4 per gallon gas, to put the kibosh on a destabilizing Middle East war of aggression . . .

On the “first instance” theme, link the nickname to the first blogospheric usage. That way there’s no glossary maintenance work to do, and the originator gets due credit.

siun #66

Thanks, awfully, siun, but I have to say, some old geezers are Sean Connery, and some aren’t.

I’m more the Panama hat, Aloha shirt and flip-flops kinda guy these days. You know, playing pinochle, swatting flies, and wondering where that kid’s got to with my second Cuba Libre.

I’ll do my best, though. Duty demands it, after all.

zAmboni I dont think that Jane, Christy and others need to change their writing style to conform with this or that convention, but they shouldnt be suprised if their efforts arent taken seriously by the employers of those being mocked

If I understand you correctly, I have to say I respectfully disagree- I do think that Jane and Christy’s comments are taken seriously- e.g. at WaPo- enough to get their kickers in a twist. But, it’s the content of the FDL articles, and the further “outreach” of the FDL community, not the nicknames, that are causing pain.

back in the day *g* on usenet, rule one was to lurk for a while until you picked up the culture of the newsgroup that interested you. This led to better posts and discussions.

I hardly think that making arbitrary rules such as the one you are suggeting, Dana, would be helpful to FDL’s train, or some of the other “We’s†on FDL, in any way shape or form. #45

Kitt, I wasn’t seriously making a rule. First posters like to say “Fitz,” and there have been times others have come on board and scolded them. Others then rush in to say it’s ok, and though it may seem silly, it’s the convention here. Heaven forbid that I would suggest anything to de-rail the train.

VG – 80 – yes!

and William – pffft! you don’t have to be Sean Connery – in fact, it sounds like you’ll do the tux proud!

William Timberman- wear that tux in style, as if you own it.

Hey, Steno Sue took the jounalistic equivilent of fucking her way to the top of Ken Sarr’s Casting Couch. She got her nickname the old fashioned way: she earned it.

orangejumpsuit @ 48,
I’d like to reinforce your comment about identifying new threads when they are posted but it’s not Jane or Christy’s responsibility to do it.

As a courtesy to all, any commenter who notices should post it on the previous thread.

I haven’t read every single comment above, but my vote is to provide a sidebar glossary of terms, acronyms, etc.

I don’t have time to read FDL every day, sometimes not even every week. And things move so fast around here that it’s easy to lose the thread

Time is of the essence, as they say . . . please make it easier for us busy busy folk to take it all in, thanks.

***

And back to the “Steno Sue” thing… Okay, so Jane mentions Steno Sue. And, 99% of the time her post will include a link to an article at WaPo with the byline “Susan Schmidt”. Not too tough to figure that one out. Granted, other nicknames may be more obscure, but still, part of the fun.

dana – kitt has seemed to have a particular issue with the fitzing and gets a little unpleasant about it. While I’m personally not a “fitz”er, I believe traditions are good and should be respected and I find people who rarely participate but who feel compelled to “advise” those who do about the best way to participate rather rude. Sorta like if kitt dropped by my house once a month simply to tell me that s/he didn’t think my curtains matched my sofa. (if I had curtains that is!) Same with advisors who want to tell Jane and ReddHedd how to “be taken seriously.”

OT, but not OT, since there is much talk about nicknames on this thread. Tomorrow’s WaPo has an article about Mark Felt’s new autobio (A G-Man’s Story) wherein he reveals his anger at Bob Woodward for sticking the DeepThroat monicker on him, and for other reasons.

Seems like Bobby is not to be trusted. Sounds familiar? Didn’t Bernstein have similar complaints about Bob’s trustworthiness?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..58_pf.html

This is easy. Just make a “dictionary” where you list all the nicknames/shorthand words. It might take a while to get the original list up, but I’m sure some readers will do it for you. Then have a link on the home page to get to it.

Done.

Some characters warrant something like a post office wanted poster complete with AKA information. Salon Table Talk had a collection of acronyms like NATLBSB that were defined in a discussion. Not quite so easy for a blog however. Good luck whatever. With 70,000 viewers perday, you must be doing something right and may not want to change anything.

Latest news from SoDak is mumps has spread from Iowa, Nebraska, and Minnesota to SoDak. Thanks to travel to exotic places.

Suin, et al.- gotta crash. Nite all.

I tend to think jumps will make for harder reading, and for those of us with short attention spans, we might be wondering how or why we ended up on a bio of Chris Matthews.

Being a web standards kinda guy, why not use a standard element?


IMHO


this would work.

Regards,

RBG – I really like your point! Jane created FDL with a certain tone and openness. I’m continually impressed with her approach – as in tonight’s topic. And as the comment community, we need to take responsibility (and we mostly do) for helping newcomers and not feeding trolls and helping with the flow that makes this a welcoming place to hang out.

“I’m all for a FAQ esp. if it is developed by the community. There’s no way Christy and I have the time to put together anything that elaborate. Any suggestions about the best way to go about it?”
I’m with puppethead. No need to reinvent the wheel; the glossary already exists (at the Kossary. Just edit as needed.

Sweet Dreams VG!

Thanks for your response, siun. I was feeling a bit light-spirited when I posted that early comment. Didn’t mean to cause anyone fitz. By the way, I linked to Lespeakeasy and I love the home page! What a pretty graphic. Great idea too. I’m going back to read a bit.

Oops- guess I haven’t completely signed off- just caught a comment by Doug Wiken- much enjoy your blog, even though I am far, far away, at least by geography. Thank you among other things for coining the phrase “rapist’s bill of rights” on your blog (hope that’s close, it not exact wording)- at least that’s where I saw if first. Your writing style is one that FDLers would enjoy. Content too.

My bad – try this to get a roll-over on the acronym/abbreviation.

<abbr title=”in my humble opinion”> IMHO </abbr>

Blushing,

Tengrain

What a lot of wonderful ideas. An invitation to de-lurk in a late night thread every so often would both encourage and acknowledge the FDL train never stops and always keeps the door open.
Also…
I want a I Got Fired From The CIA!! T-shirt

I’d err on the side of caution before changing too much or too quickly, because my experiences in arguing with success haven’t tended to work out so well. FDL’s explosive growth in readership and influence means that there’s an awful lot going right.

Last night’s de-lurker thread truly was inspired if the overall objective was to promote inclusion. A lot of the explanations were great and led to interesting side discussions. And, unsurprisingly, the regulars were welcoming. I guess the question I’d pose to the remaining lurkers and to the newly de-lurked is whether the opaqueness of the jargon was the main barrier to participating, or if there also were others that we should be addressing if possible.

Ever since I found my way here via a combination of Josh Marshall and Atrios recommending the place, I’ve noticed that the culture was fairly tight in terms of people being mutually supportive; but that culture wasn’t really exclusive. Some diaries on Kos, for example, seem to be newbie traps, with people waiting to show how “smart” they are by jumping all over the uninitiated. I’ve never seen that happen here. Still, the in-group familiarity might be holding some potential commenters back. This is where invitations like last night’s really help.

And if some kind of FAQ thing is required, I’ll volunteer to help compile last night’s Q&A. My schedule’s too volatile to do much with Pach’s Roots Project, but this is something I can do between paying gigs.

VG — yes I can create separate pages in Wordpress that are discreet and aren’t in the cue of posts.

IMO the “matrix of value,” that attracts readers is (1) the posts that you and Christy write; (2)the speed and accuracy with which you write them and (3) there is no subscriber fee.
You have attracted a lot of high quality commenters, which has provided a nice feedback loop, which it appears helps drive the engine that churns out more posts. Yours and Christy’s and others willingness to occasionally comment in a post is also extremely helpful.
What I worry most about, and this is my problem, is you and or Christy “burning out,” under the pressure of churning out so many posts seven days a week. I have been really happy to see you add Pach and other guest posters, because it tells me you are in this for the long haul.
I think a lot of people have trouble expressing anger, directly and appropriately. It may be even tougher for women than men. MoDo has written a little bit about this and how tough it has been for her personally to be a “woman” criticizing. So to get to read a woman such as yourself, who really can “bring down” some pretty bad characters, Harris, Brady, Miller, Howell, is extraordinarily rare. So, I agree, I don’t want you or Christy worried about FAQ’s, I want you doing the reading and talking to other people so that you both can continue to “tell it like it is,” the unvarnished version.
People trust yours’ and Christy’s take on what’s “in the news.” I don’t think any of us think you’re “infallible,” but you two have the kind of character, that we associate with all that is most noble in our country and in our world. And you’re both funny, smart, and you write with great, great clarity, accuracy, and passion. (I feel as though I am stopping in at a bar, owned by Jane and Christy.) What you said about “Steno Sue,” resonated with me so much. We can’t let people forget, unless like Mike Brown they make reasonable attempts to apologize. You and Christy and the other posters you “ordain,” are providing moral leadership in a secular medium. Readers are, among other things, lazy and greedy. We don’t want to read all your links and all the comments, before we blurt out an opinion. We want a 15-round prizefight every day with Xerox Ben, Howell or DeadEye, or Brady or Joementum or whomever….. Life isn’t like that, nor is the newscycle.
I love reading you and Christy seven days a week. It might, however, be worth considering taking one day off a week from posting.

Thanks dana – it’s been underutilized – the community we built it for thought it was a little too nice to “mess up” with posts! (which has led me to be very hesitant about any changes to working systems – even when they are theoretically what the users request!) Okie funds the hosting and likes FDL and the idea of it being used as do I.

When I can’t understand the acronyms or the slang, if I don’t have the nerve to ask (and sometimes that is the case), I will try to find it on the resources that were either mentioned last night (wonderful topic last night), or I google. But if that fails, I ask.
I love the term EPU’d and when I finally learned the real meaning from ccmask and others’ responses, I felt so good as I had all but figured it out myself.

I think FDL is quite fine without many changes. But if there are to be changes, I am certain Jane, Redd, and Pach will do themselves proud. Look at what they’ve done already!

IMO one of the nicest things about this site is the fact that it is not particularly troll friendly, bc they have to invest too much time and energy to keep up, so I’m with Merc 27, although for the selfish reason that I think it makes for more complex, moving discussion and less trolling – making it ‘ezier’ makes it more attractive to the hit and run trolls IMO. OTOH, a blog lives by its traffic and making it ezier will enhance your traffic

Ketchup -
EGREGIOUS — many happy returns of the day to be!!!!!!!!!
{{{{{{BobbyG & mom}}}}}}}}}

orangejumpsuit #90

When I read Bob Woodward’s tale of how he met Mark Felt, and the relationship he sought with him, I remember thinking it was awfully creepy, even for an ambitious young man in DC. Why, I wondered, would a young man in that particular time and place pick an FBI agent as a mentor, and cozy up to him in such an obviously sycophantic way.

Even though it worked out well for Woodward — made him rich and famous even — it seemed like a fundamental character flaw to me. In any event, it might explain why a guy widely heralded as a crusading investigative reporter became such a shameless suck-up in middle age. Maybe he always had that in him, kind of an as-the-twig-is-bent sort of thing.

And so to bed…night all….

I just wanted to say that when I first commented here, I really was afraid to put a foot wrong. Unsure if what I had to say was worth it. It might not be, sometimes, but I really appreciate this place.

what John Casper said!

OldCoastie: “Betty Cracker! I love that name!”

Thank you. It’s a nickname from my Buffalo-born husband, bestowed as homage to my down-home style cooking.

When first starting out, I found a lot of the general blog slang here:

http://www.acronymfinder.com/

http://www.urbandictionary.com/

As mentioned earlier, Wiki and Kos also have internet slang sites. Perhaps a front page section with links to all those sites might be helpful for the uninitiated. OTOH, it’s not very hard to figure out most of it if Google is your friend.

Personally, I think the FDL specific slang is part of the FDL allure and would be disappointed not to see it continue. Half the fun of reading post and comments is trying to figure out what the inside joke is.

If we’re going to consider a glossary of FDL nicknames, perhaps it should be nothing more than nicknames with links to earlier FDL posts that help put the names in context. IMO, being part of the FDL community should take a little commitment to dig further into issues and questions.

One specific and simple suggestion would be to replace the word “Search†on the main page with “Search the Archives†and to make that area more prominent.

And Siun, you and I share the belief that building community requires personal investment.

William Timberman — wear the tux WITH an aloha shirt. *g*

And a great big thanks to all here for their comforting words during our recent family tragedy. When I can’t sleep (still) at least some of you seem to be up and chatting.

As for changes — we come here to read Jane and Christy and to share. The mechanics, to me at least, is trivia.

John Casper @ #104

Spot on !

15 – save it for the one and only
19 – no. there are to many list already! we don’t need badges or scarlet letters, esp. for them!
56 – gets’ my vote!

G’nite all!

and Grandma J – I was so glad to hear of your time with family at easter … been thinking about you and yours!

RBG – *g*

almost forgot – anyone who is in the Chicago area, there’s a CIVIC vigil Sat. at 1PM at the rose garden in Grant Park (Jackson and Columbus)

nite!

I know that the biggest reason I lurked and didn’t comment for a long time is the high caliber of comments here. I have nowhere near the writing skill that most commentors here do.

When I do comment, I feel like I’m running with the big dogs and I’m only a Yorkie. At first, I was afraid that I would get run over but I found this place to be welcoming and appreciative of even my little bit of input.

There may be some techie things to tweak, like a FAQ or such, but the bedrock of FDL appears to me to be rock solid.

John Casper — what a nice comment.

We’re experimenting with working other people into the blog for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is the occasional ability to give ourselves a rest from the 24/7 news cycle. So far I think it has produced some real successes (the bigotsphere series particularly) and provided some insight as to how we can use our platform to let others expose the good work they’re doing. I can’t imagine we’ll ever get away from Christy and I (and now Pach) being the backbone, but it’s wonderful to be able to spot and develop talented people to contribute. It’s something I definitely hope to do more of.

GrandmaJ, good to “see” you on-line. Warm thoughts your way!

Mr. Casper, there was a time not that long ago that I seemed to start many of my comments with “Thanks Mr. C”.

I haven’t had a chance to say it recently so …thanks for all you contribute here.

Bionic says: April 21st, 2006 at 9:42 pm

Isn’t that the problem, that EPU’d has not yet made it beyond the confines of FDL?

If it does, perhaps the Margarets (if that’s her real name) of the thread will find it easier to accept my omniscience.

Semblance – Some of it, like the “EPUd†stuff, just isn’t helpful. You don’t see me posting “Some of it, like the “SEMBLANCEd†stuff, just isn’t helpful. What could you possibly have against my becoming a neologism? Jealous? I hope you realize, this means war.

Orangejumpsuit – Earlier thread. There are more permutations. It is very possible that if someone pleads out to lesser charges in a conspiracy, that they would then be named as an unindicted co-conspirator in the conspiracy count. That is fairly common.

‘nite all. Thanks for another great late nite FDL.
Happy weekend. Happy weddings!

Jane, I had to chuckle today when I heard the morning local Air America talk show host call Matthews Tweetie and did not even need to explain who it was because of the context. I have a habit now of calling them by those names now. How could you not call them otherwise. Stephany Miller calls McClellan – PuffyMcBlowfish and you know… I get to the point that I forget their real names. Just think of meeting old 60 grit and calling her that!

Suzanne, oh yeah! I do know the feeling.

Been lurking a bit, but last night’s thread was a wonderful addition to the proceedings. I agree that a basic glossary or FAQ is welcome, but only as it relates to FDL-specific terms, acronyms, and such. Too much housekeeping kills the fun. It didn’t take me long to figure out things like IIRC, WRT, IMHO, etc. And I surmise if I can catch on, pretty much anyone can. (Kind of like “if I could quit smoking after 22 years, anyone can!”)

egregious #13 – not sure what you mean by League of Women Voters “types”. But as a member of the Seattle League, and soon-to-be Board member, I can tell you that the national League (and all the local Leagues) did a big study on black-box voting and HAVA (Help America Vote Act) in 2003-2004. At our public forum following the publishing of the study, we had Bev Harris on our panel – we’re very lucky to be able to have her here in the Seattle area. The issue is at the forefront of League activities, because registering voters, making sure they are informed, and securing their voting rights is part of our years-long mission. Don’t mean to just be tooting our own horn, but I’m proud to be a part of the organization and we are always looking for new membership. (By the way, men also join up with us).

Sorry to go on. But the League is a lot more activist and in the forefront than most are aware.

And have I said yet how grateful I am that FDL is here? Jane and Christy have created an evolving work of art. Each day I look forward to stopping in to read all of your comments, learn more, find more ways to get involved.

This has probably been suggested.

Construct a glossary and provide a link in a prominent, easy to find spot.

BTW (by the way), “Mangalang” is an intentional perversion of “Maglalang” – Michelle Malkins’ maiden name.

I mentioned the perversion last night in relation to a particular commenters possible syphyllitic infection. Didn’t mean to confuse anyone.

ok, the first and most important convention is that it’s not “blogosphere,” it’s “blogtopia,” and yes! we coined tha phrase!

How about mentioning real names once in a while and then every time you use the nickname, have the alt-text show the real name, or you could link to glossary.

shoephone,

Good to see you here. I’m curious if your application for LWV board membership included your recent experience standing on street corners in the CD shouting political slogans?

Do they know what kind of subversive they have in their midst?

Keep the nicknames, acronyms, all of it. Don’t underestimate the importance of language in both creating and sustaining identity, membership (in the Maslow sense), and nation blog based virtual society. The French, inter alia, seem to think it somewhat important – I wonder why? Hmmmmmm.

It is a question of style, perhaps, but not of effectiveness or seriousness. The best political science book ever written, Thompson’s Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail 1972, is rife with hyperbole, surrealism, epithets, etc. The language adds to the author’s points, it doesn’t detract. Same story here.

Shorter me: Lighten up.

The thing about FAQ, is that they are tough to maintain. Count me as another vote for a wiki. But you’d want to limit the topics. You don’t want to need a wiki to understand your wiki.

I love firedoglake, and it has become a part of my daily life. I would hate to see it change in any radical way, because I like it so much as it is now.

I think I became an addict during the ScAlito cloture fight. It gave me a sense of being a small part of something of value greater than myself. The Netroots project has built upon that.

I thoroughly enjoyed the de-lurking thread last night, not that I am a lurker, but got to meet a lot of new people and learned a number of things I had not known before. [I still want to know why Jim VanDehei is “Pool Boy.” The answers I heard last night did not distinguish him from any of a number of other MSM lackeys. I think I have figured out most of the rest of it].

Some good ideas for improvements have been expressed–glossary, FAQ, or whatever–which might be fine, as long as they don’t get in the way. I would hate to see FDL burdened with a bunch of rules that it has gotten along well without, and I trust Jane and Christy will not let that happen.

Maybe they should ask for volunteers to develop a concept for glossary/FAQ/whatever (GFW), then pick a few trusted regulars from among the willing to carry out the mission. But whatever you do, please keep FDL FDL. (my two cents worth).

Thanks to Jane, Christy, Pach, guest bloggers and commenters for all you do.

Hi RBG – Glad to see you here too! Well, first, I didn’t actually apply for it, they approached me. I was hesitant to take it for two reasons: 1) I just spent a year chairing the study on corporate subsidies and was pretty exhausted, was thinking of taking a big break…

2) I had concerns that my rabble rousing as a private citizen would either present conflicts of interest, or at some point reflect negatively on the League (we do try and stay out of street fights). They assured me I could continue with my activities as long as I didn’t publicly support specific candidates, openly work on a political campaign, or god forbid, run for office myself while on the board (a two-year position). Plus, they are always so nice to me and make it hard to say “no”. I did let the president know right afterward about my solo protest of Cantwell. She just shook her head and smiled, like a mother getting a kick out of her daughter’s latest foibles.

And the corporate subsidies study? Yes, the mayor’s office was pissed, Vulcan Inc. is in full defense mode, the right-wing economists slammed it and….

all of this means we are on the right track. “Takin’ it to the man’ as it were.

I do so enjoy being a troublemaker.

Wiki

Mr. Universe *g* mentions Thompson’s Fear and Loathing…1972; the other good campaign book that came out of that cycle was Tim Crouse’s The Boys on the Bus. It was an account of the press coverage of the Nixon/McGovern campaigns that year. It’s dated now, but at the time it was quite remarkable.

Curses! Close your tags, fool! Sorry about that.

Shoephone,

I’ve heard a little about that study. Is it posted on the LWV website? I couldn’t find it with a cursory look.

EPU @ 122

Isn’t that the problem, that EPU’d has not yet made it beyond the confines of FDL?

Look buddy, I’m on to your nefarious plan.

Isn’t an entire parallel universe, even if it is evil, not enough for you, but you have to become a neologism in ours?

I realized just how dangerous you were the other day when I found a sock that had missed making it into a load in the washer. I looked at it and said to myself, dammit, epu’d that sock!

Night all, I played way too late last night!

Jane, others must have suggested this already, but why not have a glossary of terms? It would change as new terms came to be accepted & old ones were left idle

Isn’t an entire parallel universe, even if it is evil, not enough for you, but you have to become a neologism in ours?

If the double negative was a typo: Yes.

If it was intentional: No.

But now you know where the stray socks go.

any evil parallel universe can’t match the evil that bush’s universe creates

Don’t worry about it. Most references you make here show up if you google them. If you want to improve that in the quickest way put a search engine like google on your archives. If anyone doesn’t know a reference and cares enough, they can go back and see previous use and context.

Undercoverdick – That’s sorta the point.

My $.02:

I find all iterations of First, Frist, Fitz, “Dean is first”, etc. to be highly irritating. If you cringe when you hear Limbaugh listeners say “megadittos” then you know what I am talking about.

The use of nicknames is complicated. I am more concerned that they are often juvenile and embarassing than I am worried that readers cannot figure out who they refer to.

Ideally a good nickname should be clever, descriptive, and biting. “Steno Sue” certainly meets the test. I also like “Judy Kneepads” because it evokes Miller’s professional and personal relationships with her sources.

I find “Tweety” and “Pumpkinhead” to be less than brilliant. I don’t mind their occasional use, but (accurately) calling Russert “Pumpkinhead” is hardly less of a cheap shot than calling Michael Moore fat.

Other nicknames I like: “Big Time” and “The Decider”.

I wish punaise was here.

me too

I don’t want anything at fdl to change, ever.

BTW, in some quarters it’s the Deciderer-in-Chief
(aka the Decisionator)

EEEEK!!

*drops over of a heart attack*

Punaise, don’t sneak up on a guy like that!

don’t fix what ain’t broke…keep the nicknames (my favorite part!) and everything else…no sense in dropping the bar for those who want it all explained in a neat little package…I’m with Wolcott – do your research and figure it out…if you can’t, tough…life’s a mystery and we’re the detectives.

There are plenty of clues for the clueless.

that was funny, punaise.

I love the nicknames. It is what gives the blogosphere character. Like Jane pointed out before, without the nicknames, we’d be the New York Times.

However, a community-created glossary, the Blogsary/Glossaphere, would be a great idea.

I don’t want anything at fdl to change, ever.

Yeah, especially when they delete posts that challenge their version of the truth. Apparently, Trotskyite tactics are not reserved for Michelle Malkin’s blog roll alone. Winston Smith is out late tonite.

I’m a little jumpy. Big storms here. The old deaf kitty is blithely snoring through it, but the baby (well, he’s 7) is trying to get so close to me, he’s half inside my shirt.

just messin’ wit ya, fellas. late to the party – wasn’t even lurking. here’s my suggestion from the other night:

…that ties in with the lofty idea of a user-generated wikipediesque FDL “glossary / nick-name & acronym-finder†where one could find out about EPU’d, LOL, IIRC, Judy Kneepads, I’ll be here all week – try the veal, and more serious stuff. A place for some of Pach’s manifestos to reside. Redd’s primers on court proceedings. Snarkives. Dare I say: a living FDL cultural repository.

RBG – apologies.. the League website is not very interesting yet. We are working on improving in the next couple of months, though. If you go to:

http://www.seattlelwv.org

and then click on to:

LWV Seattle Publication Index , that will take you to a box where you can scroll (almost all the way) down to: Seattle Voter: 2006 April

and there it is in Pdf format. Cover article on PP.1 and 3, study’s about half way in, on S1.

You may even find it boring, I don’t know. It’s really not a hit piece at all, in fact it’s very straightforward, explanatory, almost like a short class lecture on taxes and economic development. But in the South Lake Union section we put all the controversial issues in one place, like how the mayor and Vulcan double-teamed against community groups who feel that they’re getting screwed. Oh, and Boeing and former Gov. Locke don’t exactly come out smelling like a rose either…

Time for me to go to bed!

of course, it’s easy to lob out suggestions like that – much more of a challenge to actually make it happen.

Matt O. – 154

didn’t get your mysterious reference to an email a few nights ago…. care to elaborate?

Anyone can do; not everyone can suggest. Don’t be so modest.

punaise is very punny.

“Snarkives”?!

Oh, my sweet gentle Jesus, can I PLEASE be the Snarkivist, Keeper of the Snarkive, and Snarkival Librarian? I just want it on a business card.

I wish T Rex was stil here

punaise is very punny.

His humor is pure punishment.

for the resident Snarkivist position: no Dumbster-diving required

Punaise –

Oh, haha, that part was for Valley Girl if she was following the comments.

She had e-mailed me and used “FWIW” and I had to go look it up. Turns out it means “for what it’s worth.”

I guess you learn something new everyday.

Shoe-I’ll take another look but it sounds like it’s something best saved for less than sleepy eyes.

Did you hear Steve Scher’s interview with Rob McKenna Friday morning? They talked about how good Vulcan’s lawyers were on the stadium lease compared to the city’s.

Podcast is available at:

http://www.kuow.org/defaultProgram.asp?ID=10580

There’s no way I can keep up with youse guys.

Good night all.

From Siun at “Which Raises the Question”-7: thanks for the IL impeachment link – I sent it out over the IL Roots list so maybe we can help with that.

Pas de quoi, but thank you for passing it along. See you over there soon.

Matt O. – capito – GYHTBT

(Guess you had to be there)

So how is everyone doing tonight? I was slated to go out, all dressed up (casual, not formal) and things got derailed.

EPU 132 – I had no idea you were so short.

Shoephone- am I misremembering or did you recently mention knowing Bill Nye? Not many names would make me envious, but that one does. I LOVE the Science Guy. I saw him again during Katrina stuff for the first time in a long time, and I had that feeling like when you are a kid and walk into your grandmother’s kitchen while cookies are baking — that the world is going to be OK.

If you see this Jane, I am going backthread to ramble on some in EPU territory re: Black, Abramoff, and the classified docs issue on Abramoff and Ashcroft’s COS, and there will be a lot of links, so if you see posts stack up on hold, it’s probably me and they aren’t that important. I’m just angry and can’t sleep and I’m going to pull up links and do seaches to try to wind down.

Is that punaisement?

Mary,
I heard Bill Nye recently got married.

Green Lantern 75 -
But tell me, who among us would have the literary facility and courage to give a brief definition of “old 60 grit†in a FAQ?

I have neither, but a rare moment of immodesty (!) compels me to relive the thrill of having coined “Ole Sixty Grit” – please put that discovery on my blog tombstone someday.

Just to say thank you for confirming my conviction that partisan politics is, in so many ways, a false dichotomy in the United States; just as, say, the debate over Pepsi vs Coke or McDonald’s vs Burger King is a rather nonsensical affair…

…I leave you with a little play toy !

http://tipsy.org/tipsoundmaker.html

It’s all the same exclusive cocktail party and ‘gated community’ at the top, whether it’s coming from the left or right. (Which disaster is that Bush-Clinton beast off to now?) These are all shoddy propaganda tactics to keep you enslaved, love your oppressor and pay for your own bondage.

It’s all junk food in the end….

…and I’m on a hunger strike.

Was it something I didn’t say? :)

And with that, goodnight. You’ve been a great audience. Really. No..no more…enough…I’m gonna blush.

Punaise -

After the discovery of Cheney’s nap during Chinese President Hu’s speech, has the Veep moved on from “Dead Eye Dick” to “Droopy Eye Dick”?

Cheney can’t catch a break. The whole shooting a 78-year old man in the face thing finally washed under the bridge and now this?

He should just be glad he didn’t choke on a pretzel or yack in a foreign leader’s lap.

Matt O. – Friday nights can be that way, no?

For my part – long day of work, blabbing all day at client meetings. Just dropped by here to find out how far behind I am on FDL threads….still haven’t made it through last night’s de-lurk!

Matt O. 179 – missed the nap news. read ‘em and veep.

I would keep doing things exactly as you have been. Why tamper with perfection? I had no idea who these “tags” were referring to when I first came here but it’s easy enough to catch on quickly.

Friday nights, indeed. I am still in college so I enjoy my weekends.

just back from watching “BBM” with my wife. Strange movie….

t rex, I say punaise gets a week in the punitentiary for:

(aka the Decisionator)

I thought it was decisionerator

we who lurk learn the argot, too
but it’s sweet of you to show concern for us

I know Eric Alterman coined “punitocracy” but I came up with a spin on that one for those in the punditocracy that contradict themselves in hypocritical ways: “punditocrisy.”

NOTE: I just did a Google search and it has been used before but I never knew that. So I cannot take credit — damn it.

EPU 161:
Anyone can do; not everyone can suggest.

I meant that in the sense that it would be one more burden of sorts for our already harried hostesses. I, for one, would be glad to contribute an occasional entry to a wiki-thingy but would not have the time, talent or resources to set it up or manage it. Thus the “easier said than done” twist.

hey, ET!

Anybody here use AOL Instant Messenger at all?

hey, punaise, wiki or faq?

Thanks for inviting us to de-lurk, Jane.

I found FDL early last fall because of the Plame coverage, but kept coming back, and now I’m addicted.

This is my favorite blog. Jane and Christy–and Pach and the guest bloggers– are such excellent writers.
The amount of research that goes into your postings is impressive and, I’m sure, very time consuming.

I agree with John Casper. Don’t give yourselves more work by taking time from your research and writing to make up glossaries, etc. I don’t see how you have time to produce so much in the first place–and all top-notch.

Besides the great writing on your posts, I really enjoy reading the comments, something I rarely do on other blogs.
Your regulars are very knowledgeable and witty and I have learned a lot here. Also, there’s a real sense of community. I hope FDL never loses that.

As far as not understanding the “terminology” and nicknames, I agree with all those who said if you read often enough, you catch on.

One thing I found really interesting on last night’s thread was the origin of “trexxing”, which I gathered had to do with getting rid of trolls. But I couldn’t figure out why that was the term you used until someone referenced TRex’s method of dealing with them on his blog. It’s the little things like that this that contribute to the uniqueness of FDL.

Thank you !

Oops— last sentence should read:

It’s the little things like this that contribute to the uniqueness of FDL.

Tempo

ET – 190
I dunno; would wiki be more “organic”?

Matt O. 189: AIM – no, but my teenage kids do, along with myspace.com

Perhaps a helpful addition would be a page for the cast of characters. You could put a link every time a name such as “Steno Sue” came up, then in the cast of characters page it would not only explain who she is, but why the nickname. You could also have an entry for special terms, not just acronyms like IIRC, but more politically specific terms like OVP, WH, etc. It would need to be searchable.
This could be the start of even more record keeping, for example, their voting record, what affiliations they have with which groups, previous posts referring to the afore mentioned and anything else factual that could be presented. Maybe even a thumbs up/thumbs down graphic that could be changed by factors such as voting for certain Supreme Court nominees.

Ed*ard Teller @ 184:

I thought it was decisionerator

Nay, nay…Deciderist.

;>)

punaise,

probably. easier to maintain as a community, but also fairly easy for trolls to mess with. there are some great wikipedia stories about that. but some wikis, like the bird flu wiki, have maintained amazing credibility all the way through their development into important public resource tools.

i think that as this site becomes an important ingredient in a few of the 2006 campaigns, there will be some pretty awesome attacks by the melmanbots, and the wiki could be more hassle dealing with than an faq.

otoh,

an fdlwiki might prove to be one of the great humor sites in the history of the www! 60grit explained, as somebody posed way above….

ET 197 – good points re the open source aspect of wiki. FDL may need to stock up on copious amounts of Troll-B-Gon.

darkblack,

George Bush, December, 2000:

“Things would be a lot easier if we lived in a decideratorship, run by the Deciderists.”

could an FAQ receive contiributions that are monitored by an FAQ-crew?

it’s hard work decisionating!

Punaise -
I use AIM. I am about 850 miles away from my hometown down here in the Southwest.

your AIM is true

(Elvis Costello reference – before you time?)

punaise,

I wish I had a couple of cans, or maybe a case of trollbegone! My e-mail’s been crapped on a lot since the beginning of March and the “May Name is Rachel Corrie” cancellation stuff reminded a bunch of trolls that I exist and am still breathing.

Punaise -
I love Elvis Costello’s song “Everyday I Write the Book,” but I do believe the reference is a bit before my time.

I grew up listening to U2 and R.E.M. before branching out into other genres but I hold a close, nostalgic place in my heart for those two bands.

Ed*ard Teller @ 200:

While we watch on the Magnavox, and sing…

‘A just machine to make big decisions,
Programmed by fellows with compassion and vision…

What a beautiful world this’ll be,
What a glorious time to be free’

;>)

darkblack,

great pic – nasty. deadeye dick CAN’T miss at that range. giving jack ruby a bad name, eh?

I think I’ve just been set up……..?

Every Day I Write the Book is a god catchy pop song, but Costello’s best work – IMO – was his first three new-wave albums in the late 70s.

My Aim Is True 1977
This Year’s Model 1978
Armed Forces 1979

ET – sorry to hear about the spam scam

John Casper 104 – amen to that, well stated

punaise,

maybe we can market a better version of trollbegone and call it spam scam scram.

off to bed………

or maybe I should stay up for #300?

nah! pleasant dreams, citizens of the decideratership.

Ed*ard Teller @ 208

P is for Patsy ;>)
…And also, Patrick.

Sleep well.

final thought for Jane on the dilemma:

a humorous fdl wiki monitored by Gen. JC Christian, PATRIOT, Hunter Thompson’s TRUE AND UNBLEMISHED APOSTOLIC SUCCESSOR.

geez, it’s late.

ztiF, all.

Good night all.

my 2 cents: keep the nicknames, but with a hotlink glossary and institute daily open threads.

it’s almost noon where I live…(good night y’all over there).

I agree w/John Caspar #104 too.

IMHO glad to learn the accronyms & argot (French for ’slang’) at my own pace, doesn’t bother me.

And I like how everyone pretty much shines on the trolls.

I love FDL, I’m a happy informed addict. Thanks everyone.

Jane….we have a little group blog in NC. I know I’ve mentioned it before, but a couple of us also use nicknames and sarcasm. Believe it or not, this came up last night and there’s been a discussion. If it’s OK I am going to copy and paste your explanation of why the nicknames serve a purpose.(with a link of course) I know some on our blog want more newsy pieces and usually I oblige, but you are right. The snark and nicknames work. Thank you for helping set that straight.

Matt O
I heard Bill Nye recently got married.

*g* As someone who has never had carnal thoughts about my grandmother or her cookies, I can find it in me to wish him well. I just hope his biology experiments turn out well. ;-)

joe d says: If you’re interested and intelligent, you’ll figure it out. And that’s the fun. Encyclopedic definitions of terms like “Steno Sue†and “Tweety†don’t give the proper context. People gots to read the archives. It takes some effort to be engaged.

I heartly concur. –Beel

Jane, Jane, Jane,
I actually read the two hunderd posts regarding De-Lurking before posting this. FAQ’s are so passe’ that NO ONE will ever look at the damned thing. ( How many do you look at? ) If I have a question, I google it – much quicker – don’t waste your time on a FAQ.

This issue is balance – between the insider nuggets of FDL , and the most welcome newcomers who may miss a term or name. Jane, do not underestimate your readers. The information published on your site is poignant and refreshing to the first-time visitors, and they are not spinning around and heading back out into the wilderness just because Ole’ 60 Grit doesn’t ring a bell. No, the key is to use the old school tactic of identifying the subject by name once in parenthesis early on in the post – coupled with the nicknames. You don’t even have to do it on every post, just once every day or two will accomplish the education of those fans to be.

I do get the sense of “cliqueshness” occassionally while reading FDL, but this is only one of the small factors that sum up my fondness for FDL. We all know insider bonding works. Secret handshakes, decoder rings, gang hand-signs, all give the sense of belonging and knowing things “outsiders” do not.

So I say balance is the key. no weekly lessons, FAQ’s, etc. Just keep a sense of openness for the newcomers, and keep a lil’ red meat coming for us old dogs.

(Wanna know what we call yo around here???)

I urge the regular posters at FDL to use less blog jargon, or at least essay periodically in standard English. The point of your excellent work should at least partly be to reach people who don’t already know what’s going on or who may not agree with you. Often I don’t send your posts to friends and family, who would benefit from them, only because it is so laden with jargon that they won’t be able to to comprehend the writing.

Remember the scene in “Airplane” where there are subtitles as two jive talking individuals converse? I suggest you occasionally do a conventional English translation of a paragraph or two of a significant post/comment. Put it in an adjacent box. Use footnotes to reference the allusions to other blogs.

You could call it DIDL (De Ideas De-Lurkers).

As one who lurks and had to have a Lee Iacoca/Snoop Dog commercial interpreted, I would benefit from such a convention.

My bush-lovin’ Republican colleague at work is really out there. Yesterday I told him that the $4 a gallon was a very real possibility and he said–hey, everyone has a right to charge what they want for their product. Of course, seeing that we are both in sales and have free gas cards helps him to make this unruly observation. Gosh, he really really pisses me off big time. He will never get it.

Love the idea of a fitzsaurus. I would definitely be willing to have a go at setting it up. I am leaving for NY next week, but when I return (May 4) I could have it ready in a week. I remember when I first started my FDL addiction, Tweety made me crazy. For a couple of weeks I held out trying to figure it out by posters–it became too much since I really had to be ready for work in the morning. I finally gave up and asked. The first reponses to my question held out for a little while and then-boom- somebody told me it was Chris Matthews. Is it because like Tweety the cartoon, a little birdie told me?

I agree with Captain RedDog.
Having to ask what EPU means should continue to be a rite of passage here.

The use of some of the jargon adds to the richness of the dialogue, and it’s kind of fun! Sort of a set of inside jokes. But measures should be taken to promote more inclusiveness.

A loose confederation seems to already exist among many of the progressive sites, and establishing/maintaining a wiki then keeping a prominent link on the related sites should help the increasing number of readers to participate and enjoy the community.
Some user sites already exist as noted, but an overall info site should help demystify some things and would probably increase everyone’s overall readership.

OFF topic, I really like the new comment interface!

Well, I’m obviously very late to this article. But, to chip in my thoughts:
Overall, I think a glossary page of some sort is best. It doesn’t have to be done all in one day. Make it a gradual project….add 1-2 things per day, and so forth. In a month’s time it’ll be looking pretty full.
Nicknames: I think they’re great. I enjoy them.
Initials/acronyms (ie- IIRC)….I hate these things. I find them annoying. But folks use all sorts of these things in computer discussions. Asking to stop with all the initials stuff is kind of like asking the Colorado River to stop flowing. Won’t happen.
Ghostman

Could we puhleeese have a group of common misspellings in the glossary also?
You know:
its – possessive pronoun, it’s – contraction of it is; your – possssive pronoun, you’re – contraction of you are; to – direction towards, too – also, in addition, two – number 2.

bbuster, grammar nazi.

I have tried but do not grasp how to negotiate “threads.” Will keep at it.

How about a snark page on the site with TLAs and widely used nicknames? And I did appreciate this thread, because EPU’d was driving me nuts. I thought I knew all the TLAs, even the four letter versions.

Build an FDL glossary, lexicon, or FAQ’s .. or some combo of all three … links are easy to hang on the sidebars, as you know …

Morning all– FYI on CSPAN2 right now is Ann Jones author of Kabul in Winter: Life Without Peace in Afghanistan.

Here’s a NYT review of her book:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04…..RG/ZYToCEg

FDLpedia.

I’m with Capt’in RedDog and the others on learning all this can be part of the charm.Go to the comments and ask.There are things I still don’t have a grasp on,being somewhat computer challanged.Just keep it polite.

The acromyms/nicknames thing can be a little daunting, but I find I can usually figure them out through context. It helps that “Tweety”, for example, is in common use across most of the blogs I hit daily.

Long-time readers of the British satirical magazine “Private Eye” know that they’ve been doing the nickname thing for over forty years, and it hasn’t hurt their readership.

If the old FDL site is just sitting around getting dusty,maybe a big post as a main glossary page(with links to examples or info about the term for each entry)there would be a good idea.Make a button for the sidebar here to link to it.As for who would do the compiling and editing,why not ask for regular FDL commenters to help you? Divide it up alphabetically or something.

I’ve been reading here for a few months,but rarely post because the comments move so fast it’s impossible for me to keep up with all the comments.I scan them,look for relevant links(and sometimes,the OT comments and links have some great stuff in them too),and then try to absorb it all.

One thing I like about FDL is the minimum of the more trollish among us.And when trolls do show up,they’re dealt with and not allowed to derail the topics at hand.Trolls are the least of our problems.I figure people who would do that can be dealt with later,in our real life communites after this country gets back on it’s feet again.Trolls can ruin a blog,I’ve seen it happen alot over the last few years.Good on you all for not letting that happen.

(Also,the delay as you type to make a comment here is maddening,it takes me forever to even leave a comment on the rare occasion I happen to)

Yes, there is definitely a bit of an offputting incrowd flavor to the blogosphere, especially for newcomers the references are not always immediately understandable, imagine what it’s like for people like me who have no television and avoid watching it anywhere. Perhaps a list of nicknames with short descriptions of the persons would be helpful. It is entirely unhelpful when different posters use different nicknames to refer to the same individual. Mr. G.W. Bush is referred to by a big multitude of names, all of which are immediately clear. Ms. Muschroom Cloud is a name which probably rings a bell with everyone. The nicknames of the columnists, TV commentators, etc. cause the problems. Fitz is also straightforward. Steno Sue is a real stumper.

A directory would be very useful. But maybe the idea is too old-fashioned for most blogospherites.

Jane,

Wordpress has the facility to create pages:

Pages are like posts except they live outside of the normal blog chronology. You can use pages to organize and manage any amount of content.

If you do create a glossary you already have the tool available. I’d suggest you edit in html and use a definition list.

The result would look like this:

Definition Lists

A definition list is not a list of items. This is a list of terms and explanation of the terms.

A definition list starts with the <dl> tag. Each definition-list term starts with the <dt> tag. Each definition-list definition starts with the <dd> tag.

Kobe

A delightful dog who likes to chew televison remote controls.

Tweety

A republican shill.

An Angry Old Broad;
Know what ya mean about’comment lag’,in the time it takes me to type,the thread moves on.On trolls,it seems to me that if they try to dicuss issues and facts in a civil manner,no problem.If they start harrassing,name calling or other uncouth behavior,Jane,Christy,or Pach will pull the plug on them.I’ll bet they would on me if I became abusive,and rightly so.Thus the high level of conversation here.

Jumping in late here, and in danger of being EPU’d, but my .02 dollars says yes to an FDL FAQ, especially a glossary of FDL-specific terms and general Net-speak acronyms (FWIW, AFAIK, etc.)

I’ve gotten emails from folks who Googled “EPU’d” and found my explaination on my blog thanking me for the definition; sometimes people don’t have time to ask for and read a definition, and we don’t want those folks to get discouraged. We’re all working toward the same goals here, and we need as many people around to hear and spread the message.

Plus, too many mysterious acronyms smacks of Net snobbery, which I truly detest. We want to be as inclusive as possible here, and make it as easy as possible for the “n00bs” (another netspression I dislike). If it hasn’t been suggested yet, maybe we can have people list FAQ entries and compile them; I’d be more than willing to help with that.

Now I’m off to videotape a discussion of Ned Lamont up in Hartford (it’s rainy today, so I don’t mind not working on my boat!) See you later!

I’m with the “compile a glossary” idea, partially because it’s interesting to have that sort of thing as a record. I’m not saying it would always be possible to have that glossary link to the source of, say, the origin of Tweety’s nickname, but where possible, it would be fun.

And, while I entirely sympathize with the “look it up” mentality, it would be a bit daunting to have to, say, look up “Steno Sue,” “Tweety,” and “IIRC” all in the same blogpost, especially if you didn’t know what INR meant.

OT Since it’s Earth day:

__________HOW WOLVES CONTROL RIVERS________

If you ever saw Yellowstone Park before 1995 you saw something that wasn’t right. Oh, it was beautiful and all with wide parks in the valley floors and huge herds of Elk and Bison grazing in the meadows by the streams. But those streams didn’t have any bushes along their banks, and there were very few aspens in the park. Nobody really noticed it, we were all just use to it.

Then after alot of fussin’ and fightin’ the wolf was re-introduced back into the park. The biologists got out their note books and began to record what happened next. It didn’t take too long before they saw the obvious. Vegatation began to grow along the stream banks. Then it dawned on them that the rest of the Rocky Mountians had aspens, willows and cottonwoods growing along the water courses, but Yellowstone was manacured. How come ?

After nearly ten years they had their answer. and it had huge implications for every ecosystem on earth, and in the seas. The wolf was completely hunted out of Yellowstone by the 1920’s, and the elk began to expand their herds. It’s well known that predators keep their prey healthy by “Thinning the Herd”. So everyone was looking for that effect on the elk, and sure enough elk populations were trimmed. As the wolves began to expand, something else happened. The elk could no longer park themselves by the streams and munch away to their hearts delights. They had to keep moving, they had to keep looking over their shoulders for Mr. Wolf.

That one little change was all the aspens, willows, and the cottonwoods needed to make their come back in the park. And that triggered a whole host of other changes. Water quality in the streams improved, that was good for the fish. Birds began showing up, because they had a place to nest and hunt. And finally that supreme engineer of water, the beaver could make his come back, and the changes could really begin. Beaver have to have willow and aspen to eat. {More on Mr. Beaver at the end.}

So today, when you visit Yellowstone, she is in the middle of a huge remodeling program brought on by Mr. Wolf. Pick any ecosystem on the planet and similar template is there. Kill off all the sharks and the oceans will change in ways we can’t see or predict. Lions, tigers, any apex predator, something like what happened to Yellowstone will occur.

It’s widely believed that the hunting of the bison to the verge of extiction was the great natural tragedy of the 19th century. But something even more profound happened before that, and we have no record of it except in the account books of the Rocky Mountian Fur Co. We have no idea what the west looked like before all those beaver were converted into hats. Think about it, every stream west of the Miss. River had them, and they had a profound effect on the water tables, erosion, floods, and just the shear volume of life that depended on them. It was a greener wetter place than the one we know today.

FireFox used to have a great spell-check extension called “SpellBound”- but it doesn’t work with the latest FF version. I’m back to using MSWord to pre-type comments.

Makes my comments lag even more, but on the occasions I don’t my typing is so poor that I end up looking borderline illitterat. (HEE!)

markfromireland seems to have a good suggestion…

Jane
Add this discussion to the MANY reasons fdl is such a valuable resource to the blog community.

As blogs grow as an information resource it’s important not to turn the end user off. I think a glossary is a great idea.

You’ve built a very dedicated community of smart, active, insightful and snarky people. Please share your local dialect for all to enjoy.

My 2 cents: I mostly lurk, comment at times, love the wild ride and excellent comments on FDL. Nothing wrong with being on a learning curve. I have enjoyed trying to figure out the blogslang. Whatever you do is fine with me. I will be here daily regardless.

Bob — are you volunteering with Lamont’s campaign? I’m working through the end of July, but plan on volunteerign for him for the week before the primary (will try to find Lamonters in the Northwest Corner). I’m in NYC.

link to a blogepedia glossary – like minded sites will do the same
don’t lose the “Steno Sue”, continue your subculture but allow for broader inclusion thru clear genre convensions i.e first usage in post, full name “Sue Schmidt” and title, second usage, “Steneo Sue” and glossary link. I’m just sayin’

I’m a regular reader – seldom poster – who has picked up many of the nick names and acronyms over time. That said, there are still many that I miss, especially since new ones are being coined all the time.

So, I have a simple proposal. How about a glossary?

A glossary could be exanded as new terms arise or trimmed as they fall out of use. It would also help to cement the blogosphere, since the same terms are used on many blogs.

…or I could just read the other posts and see that this suggestion has already been made. D’oh!! Consider this a second, or a fifth…

Lieberman on Iran:

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/S…..2FShowFull

Jane,
the subculture is very important, in a way it’s the message.
I’m adding this as an addendum to my 7:00 am post.
Expanding the subculture brand without dilution is the question being debated in mechanistic terms (glossary-no glossary) etc
If you crack the lurker-reader-poster codes, your expansion could be viral

A simple button to return a lurker to the top would be appreciated.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..48_pf.html

Link to pretty interesting story., Condi a leaker? That’s what the defenbse is claiming in a criminal case.

Does anyone ever read down this far into the twilight of the thread?

While we’re languishing here on the verge of the arrival of the Langoliers of the EPU’d Zone a suggestion or two.

There seems to be a consensus re some kind of FAQ or something. (I kinda like FDLpedia, actually.) And Jane seems to be in favor but can’t devote any time to manage the page. It’s going to have to be a community effort. I’m thinking a sponsored wiki. A linked page where anyone, as here, can post a comment, but only sponsored FDLers have wiki editing authority over the FDL Font-of-Lore. Over time, designated sponsors can sponsor others with trusted posting backgrounds to spread the work load.

Link placement is important and many have suggested a sidebar placement. I think a better placement would be a link on every 10th comment ID bar, between the name and the comment number. Placing a link to the FDLpedia on every comment would routinize its charisma. I’ll bet more people would click through if it were placed in the middle of every 10th comment bar.

Well the EPU’d Zone can’t be far off now. You know, everytime someone mentions the rush to the new thread I’m reminded of that scene in Airport, the movie, where all the journalists scribbling away in their notebooks all blindly rush full-speed into a long wooden phonebooth that immediately topples over.

As a matter of fact, FDL and its commentariat, kind of reminds me of Airplane, the movie. Christy leaves the cockpit, and lo and behold, Otto Pilot pops up and keeps this juggernaut in the air and on course. (I see punaise in the Leslie Nielsen role. I hope the FDL casting director keeps me in mind to play one of the jive-talking guys. They be cool.)

Oh, and the Langoliers’ job is to erase moments in time that have already passed into history. Like the EPU’d Zone that just arrived.

Onward to the next thread!

Also a button to take one to the bottom too. Especially on numerous comments like 253 or more

Update – back at 219 I mentioned that this thread would come in handy in a discussion we are having at our group blog. Well, Jane, your explanation of why you use Steno Sue and why you will continue to use it really helped.

I just thought I would update and let you know how important the discussions are here…even when they are about “here” and not politics.

!ztiF

Morning Firepups,

Gyro Gear Lose # 243

thanks for the Earth Day Reminder. I am re-reading the late Stephen Ambrose’s Lewis & Clark book; Undaunted Courage. Worth reading just for the numerous passages describing the untouched ecological riches they encountered

am with ya on the predator thing – about 10 years ago suburban encroachment caused a deer population explosion where we lived – I suggested reintroducing a couple of the many recaptured Mountain Lions – to the horror of my fellow advisory committee members !- The Biologist took me aside and confirmed it would be the perfect solution, but alas, “no one wants to see Bambi dragged across the picnic grounds”

I don’t know if this is possible or worth it, but I would like a “page” or list that readers (or a few of them) could post to — primarily consisting of recommended links, resources nad books people post. I am not asking for links that associated with the article or topic to be included. Only items recommended from time to time or things like that. I have a hard time capturing this information (especially while at work) and if the blog is moving pretty fast… I can get behind more than an article during my commute.

I love FDL and don’t want it to change much tho….. if we can do things to make it more user friendly without burdening Jane, Reddhedd, others, good. If not, let’s keep a good thing.

Thanks.

to siun#89:

“dana – kitt has seemed to have a particular issue with the fitzing and gets a little unpleasant about it.”

I mentioned it on One (ONE!) day. I expressed my opinion about “Fitzing” one, (ONE) day. That doesn’t compute with your assessment about my having a “particular issue” with it or my being “unpleasant about it”. Now, today, dana brought it up again. I replied to that post.

Speaking of “rude” I would say that claiming ’seniority’ on this site – as you did in your post – as your excuse to downgrade others who express their opinions about what goes on here at FDL is rude. I resent being insulted by you just because you think it’s all right to insult me based on your attendance numbers on this site. That is what I’d call rude.

I always catch up with the FDL Late Nights the next day, but for what it’s worth…

To me, FDL symbolizes the ultimate in democratic action: free speech, informed activism, and honesty, always honesty. And as in a true democracy, citizens must do their homework, become involved, and educate themselves. So while glossaries and FAQs are fine, new citizens to FireDogLakelandia need to educate themselves on the nicknames, the FDL terminology, and the mythology that’s growing around this site.

Someone mentioned upstream the thrill of learning, on their own, what a particualr term or nickname means. I remember LMAO for days after learning who “Poolboy” was. I’m still laughing (the image of Michael McDonald from MadTV always comes to mind for some reason).

And if I haven’t mentioned this lately, Jane, Redd, Taylor, Pach, and all the great commenters here, thanks for this wonderful oasis of wit, action, intelligence, snark, and compassion. You make my day.

The “Fitz” game seems pretty stupid to me. Especially when a post is dealing with a real serious or tragic subject. It’s very annoying to have to scroll through a bunch of juvenile “Fitz’s” or “Frists” before getting to the actual comments on the subject.

Otto:

All legacy routines appear stupid to downstream progeny.

The salutory Fitz! announcement is nothing more than an “Applause” sign welcoming a new guest (posting) to the stage, always an exiting occurance.

Applause doesn’t annoy you on TV (well maybe it does, you could be an aesthete). Don’t let it annoy you here. Re-frame “Fitz!” into happy applause and scroll on down.

J i O, are we allowed cross talk? Your FDL glossary ideas are great-I’d be game…what is the deal with low in a thread? I rarely post or read them, high/low what’s the big deal? Seems a button would obviate this issue…

Well it’s apparent that people on this
blog really enjoy the way its written so I guess I’ll give it a try and make a list
StenoSue, Wapo, etc.etc.(thats etcetera twice)
More important is the content and depth
and it’s really a very very good read! Truth!!

Kitt,

What you say in 261 is how I remember it too, FWIW. You got slammed too hard for a casual observation about this darned “Fitz!” thingee that’s got people all upset.

‘Course that’s easy for me to say here in the EPU’d Zone where nobody really cares.

I would vote for three things.

1) An acronym dictionary

2) A nick name dcitionary

3) A frequently asked questions page(FAQ)

-GSD

And a cup of coffe and a doobie.

So that makes 5 things.

GSD

Whatpray tell is a doobie? A soggy doughnut?

Dlow,

The evolutionary dynamics of the FDL, part of which is en masse lurching to the next thread as soon as it shows up, create lasting structures (forms) as time goes by.

One of the consequences of this is the vacuum I like to call the EPU’d Zone It’s totally neglected territory of immense size and scape. It’s a place where time essentially runs backward.

(You can try time travel yourself. Go back to a thread of week or two yore and post in it’s EPU’d Zone. No one will ever notice, most likely. You can pretty much say whatever you like without fear of snappy one-liner retorts from some thread smarty pants.)

Glad you apapreciated my suggestions. Re up/down button I just use the keyboard Ctrl Home/End. Here on FDL the end of the thread is oxygen starved. I think it’s perfectly possible for the FDLpedia to be located right here in the EPU’d Zone.

Why should all that space (infinite, really) at the end of every FDL comment thread go to waste?

Before even reading through all the comments, I will put my vote behind having open or de-lurking threads every once in a while. I think it would help us(me- I’m an egregious OT violator) stay On T if there is another thread in which to be OT.

That’s a really nice picture of the Shinkansen

mommybrain,

It’s possible that “de-lurker” postings of any regularity soon would become FDL’s version of “Yeah, yeah, another stupid open thread.” Not that that’s a bad thing.

The comment section is pretty OT chatty and I’ve seen comments on other blogs make mention of that feature.

I would hope that here in the EPU’d Zone we can forget all those conventions. We’re Zoners! Who cares!

From an ex-lurker: I love the site for the intelligence revealed by the great writing of the posts and the comments. I know this is somewhat fuddy-duddy but I think you lower the level of the discourse by reverting to foul language except under really rare circumstances. (You do need to throw overboard ballast once in a while.)Somehow I see a Rethug reading something brilliant and dangerous here and being able to more easily dismiss it as adolescent ranting because of adolescent language. Maybe this is a generational thing. Sorry and keep up the great work.

WT #79 – Panama shirt, flip flops…but no pants? Dang, retirement sounds fun. Seriously, though, once you catch a glimpse of yourself in a tux (women really do go for them) you might find yourself lounging in tux and flipflops waiting for that drink. Send a pic of yourself in your finery to siun’s place, would you?

Kenji,

That’s a pretty wide angle lens and the photographer looks to be just not quite on the wrong side of the yellow line always watched over by serious people with loud whistles. I’ll ride that train someday, I will.

orangejumpsuit #90
Bob’s trustworthiness? A la Colbert, we should make that “trustiness”.

treeman,

I’ll wager that what you mean by “really rare circumstances” is “appropriate and effective circumstances”.

I don’t trust someone who cannot swear appropriately and effectively. I especially mistrust people who swear badly or not at all. The latter I am suspicious of most of all. I suspect there’s a silent voice in their heads swearing all the time.

The swearing standard on FDL comment threads is set on extremely liberal by both Jane and Redd. Pity the poor sailor that gets into a cussin’ match with either of them!

If I can take a wild guess I’ll guess you’ve never seen an episode of Deadwood. If you’ve heard of it you no doubt know it’s loaded with the foulest language and situations. You may be too much of a fuddy-duddy to appreciate this brilliant TV series. But nevermind, rent Disc 6 and listen to producer David Milch talk about his show. The man has real insight into language, fair and foul.

#177 somnamb, I’m afraid I’m with you all the way on this one. Quick, look over there, something shiny! Still, I’d much rather talk to these people than sit on the couch and stew. There’s a spirit here that eases the pain.

i think linking more would help (to shorthand, to key players, to terminology, etc)–tags are good too for that.

for instance, in this very post: links to Tweety, Steno Sue, Starr, Susan Schmidt would have eliminated any confusion and eliminated any other need to id them.

It’s a problem with lots of sites, esp ones that are growing.

I’ve learned so much wading through all these and the de-lurk posts. It’s still shcoking to me how much time vanishes while I inform myself of the day’s events both in blog land and the other alternate reality of MSM. Nice to learn I knew more than I thought, daunting to learn I have quite a ways to go but delightful to be part of the FDL universe.

Just to add my own somewhat redundant thoughts, “Fitz”, “Frist” always make me smile ( in a happy, kind way) thinking of the poster’s enthusiasm and nearly random opportunity to be first at something. Do we have a name for the last to comment? Threadkiller seems harsh………….If you read late at night in PT it can happen pretty easily or stumble into the thread late, like now!

Well, I’m way EPU’ed, but I’ll post this here before emailing it to Jane anyway. I think a it would be good to have a short glossary in the sidebar with the FDL-specific terms like EPU’ed, and links to the Kossary for more widely used jargon and general acronym sites for computer jargon. It would also contain things like “Ole 60 Grit” and some of the nicknames, but rather than having definitions, they would be links to the posts or comments that eloquently explain them, so as not to lose the context and nuance (i.e., “read the archives” without having to hunt all through the archives to find the reference.) I think it would be compact enough that it could be maintained by one person, and help newcomers feel less intimidated without lessening the shared-language aspect of the community. I would be willing to edit and maintain this, if you decide it’s a good idea.

I also love the idea of “snarkives,” a greatest-hits list of posts. I’m guessing this could probably be implemented by adding a “snarkives” tag to the relevant posts, and then having a “Snarkives” link that generates a list by searching for that tag, but I don’t know Wordpress, so I can’t say for sure.

I am indebted to this site in so many ways for information, connections, and respected and highly entertaining commentary. Don’t change a thing, except…I hate the new masthead design. It is flat and static. The old one was so cool and evocative and rainy. Please reconsider.

J i O 255:
OK, but just don’t call me surely

amberglow,

You do know, don’t you that you’re in the EPU’d Zone of Friday’s Late Nite FDL? The main comment hall of the thread is empty as posters have all rushed off to the latest threads.

I, however, like to wander around the EPU’d Zone every once and awhile.

You should know that suggestions similar to your own are discussed in the main comment section. You’ll enjoy reading the back and forth.

Scroll way up!

I think the nicknames are important, but can see how new readers might be puzzled, so I second the vote for (a) a handy-dandy alphabetized glossary, and (b) a periodic reissue of the special invitation for lurkers to de-lurk.

Just my two cents.

Why not make up a tongue-in-cheek glossary?
I think that would be fun to have on your site anyway.
Sandra

I know this is definitely EPU territory, but I would like to explain something about the FITZ custom here at FDL. As FDL got more popular and drew more commenters from other blogs, the first person on each thread raced to say FRIST just like they do on other sites.

Here at firedoglake we were in the midst of out Fitz-o-rama plus no one here likes Frist. It made me ill to think that our threads had to pay homage to Frist. Anyhow, several of us suggested starting our threads with FITZ to honor Patrick Fitzgerald, a real American hero.

That’s why people here race to say FITZ, and Feingold (another truth-teller) and FDL. I don’t know why it bothers some of you so much. This is the definitive site for all things Fitz – starting with his name makes perfect sense to me.

And every once and awhile run into a main thread straggler.

‘ello punaise. Nice to see you so deep in the EPU’d Zone. Did you read your way down here or do you search your name?

Striker: Surely you can’t be serious?

Rumack: I am serious, and don’t call me Shirley!

J i O: just a straggler – I like to check back on Late Nite threads

OhioBlue,

Great thread paleontology there, OB, tracking that evolving e-meme.

As FDL got more popular and drew more commenters from other blogs, the first person on each thread raced to say FRIST just like they do on other sites.

I still like to think of Fitz! like when I said this:

The salutory Fitz! announcement is nothing more than an “Applause†sign welcoming a new guest (posting) to the stage, always an exiting occurance.

just a straggler – I like to check back on Late Nite threads

Roger that, punaise. The EPU’d Zone started at # 255 above where I made some good suggestions re thread FAQ.

I’m thinking about taking up intermittant (i.e., whenever I feel like it) residence here in the Late Nite Thread EPU’d Zone. It’s quieter over here and you get to respond to people even though you know they have long left for greener comment threads and will never see your reply.

Art for art’s sake, I guess.

Do like the papers. First time use (these) to give nicks, after full listing of name. Thereafter, use nick.

Or not. Personally, I don’t care one way or the other.

akhenaten,

You wrote: Or not. Personally, I don’t care one way or the other.

Well, there’s just no pleasing you is there?

Just teasing.

Actually, that’s a perfect sentiment for the EPU’d Zone. Thanks for your contribution. (Scroll up to read all about the EPU’d Zone.)

Dale,

Be careful taking that kiddo out in public.

Cute police are everywhere. They see her and she’s busted big time!

Ji O

“Re up/down button I just use the keyboard Ctrl Home/End.” (I’m think this is not for the Mac based)

“Here on FDL the end of the thread is oxygen starved. I think it’s perfectly possible for the FDLpedia to be located right here in the EPU’d Zone”.

But how could it be easily located by those in need?

An extistential thought just occurred to me. Did The EPU’d Zone on this thread start when the new thread was posted above, or did it start when Evil Parallel Universe exited the thread? If an EPU falls in the forest and Evil Parallel Universe himself isn’t there to experience it, does it even exist?

A glossary would open the dialog to a larger audience, wouldn’t it? Good thing, right?

neurophius,

The EPU’d Zone started at # 255 above.

neurophius,

The EPU’d Zone starts when someone notices the fact and posts the event.

There’s a haunted house feel to the EPU’d Zone as people keep posting replies to folks long since gone, e.g., yours truly,

EPU’d Zone Scout, J i O

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Dlow,

I know the MAC community is tight and freely exchanges info with other MACers. Somebody should be able to help you figger out how to keyboard yourself to the end of the page.

Good luck!

–

Sharon,

See # 255 above.

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One night, when you said “steno sue” you linked to the Wapo, and there was her name at the top of the column. That’s how I learned it. No problem. Thing that gives me problems is all the netslang. IIRC (which can be confursed with IRC….something entirely different….rofl, lmao, imho, all that shit). It does not communicate. I’m just saying. (slang I picked up and use from Red…er Christy). Remember, in a year or two, this is going to be the Mainstreem Media (MSM), and it’s going to be a real problem. Instead of making it a problem for the blog, why not ask commentors to use the style that I just did (here come the flames), first use, you spell it out Mainstream Media (MSM) and from then on, you use what you want to. IJS (I’m just saying).

About being EPU’d – it doesn’t start when he leaves, cause he left once for several weeks. Whenever someone used EPU’d, the commenter would often add, “I wonder where EPU is anyway?”

I don’t know where he was, but I’m glad his universe is interfacing with ours again.

What makes this blog so interesting is that it’s trully DYNAMIC. I get a sense of a constantly changing narrative. Maybe a glossary would become outdated as soon as it was put together. Besides I can relate to Jane’s comment about the time required. I’m constantly amazed at the output of so much quality material by Jane and Christy. It is one hell of a lot of work!!!

OhioBlue,

I’m not certain, but I think EPU is a she, not a he.

Nevertheless, you’re in the EPU’d Zone where nobody cares cause nobody’s here!

–

Edward Deevy:

You wrote: What makes this blog so interesting is that it’s trully DYNAMIC. I get a sense of a constantly changing narrative.

Well, I’m probably the only “dynamo” reading your posting now since you’ve posted deep into the EPU’d Zone where nobody lurks ‘cept, sometimes, me.

Read my posting #255 above to see how your glossary ideas have been anticipated and a workable approach put forth already.

Jane,

I hope you will not change the format, tone, tempo, style, or anything about this unique and uwonderful site and community you’ve created simply to handhold newbies who may not get all the lingo. If they wonder who Tweety is they can ask and someone will be happy to explain. Or they can Google the question if they prefer. Personally, I’ve no idea nor could care less who the person Sue Schmidt is, but Steno Sue flacking at WAPO is a brilliantly clear and illuminating character. So don’t spoil what you and Redd and now the growing number of guest posters have created to accomodate anyone – new or old, with it or out of it – anyone! Regards to all, Gosprey

I’ll add my vote for a who’s-who glossary. Beauty of hyperlinks. You don’t HAVE to follow them.

But on the other hand, I’m going to register an emphatic, stearn old-fashioned disapproval of demeaning nicknames. It ain’t endearing when chimpface (whoops!) does it. Why should we pick up his worst traits. We start with nicknames, we’ll end up lying, bombing, and authorizing torture.

FDL has been extremely valuable in pushing the conversation forward. The value won’t diminish if the nicknames go away.

J i 0 – I can’t figure out how to write your name. Is it italicized? (I can’t do italics but will have to learn.)

Thanks – I think you may be right that EPU is feminine. I guess we’re too deep in this alternate universe for EPU to stop by so we could ask her/him.

J i O:

Still here?

OhioBlue 311
“J i 0 – I can’t figure out how to write your name. Is it italicized? (I can’t do italics but will have to learn.)”

The html tag for doing italics is . Put no spaces between marks. Then write what you want and then close it off with the same marks, except you put a / in front of the i. Leave the plus out, of course. I put it in because the proper mark wouldn’t have shown if I had used it without the ‘plus’. Practice that and then look at your preview to see if it is working for you.

Darn it. The marks didn’t show up. You use sideway v’s. These things

Sorry OhioBlue. No matter how I make the marks to show you how to make italics they get eaten. Type html tags into google or some other search engine. You’ll get an easy lesson on how to make some html tags that work on most sites, including this one.

Kitt – I think I understand. Now I will try it.

/

I don’t think it worked. Oh well……

J i 0

Kitt – thanks! I Googled it as you said, and actually figured it out. Amazing!

the de-lurk post was such a good idea,jane!
stayed up way too late last nite,but it was fascinating learning and catching up.fdl has such a great community of smart, aware and funny people.it was great to see everyone sharing knowledge and history of this new,unfolding culture and in such a non-elitist way.i love your style,and don’t wanna slow you down,and love the nicknames and acronyms too! I know you and christy and your other major contributors don’t have time to archive this stuff and answer newbie questions about cultural literacy,but it’s sure good for the community in the long run.Something like what’s already been mentioned by Peter36,Shooter242 8,curious george 9 andMarksb 10 wuold just be peachy.I’ll bet thousands of new Fdl addicts would agree!Thanks to all!

I’m still figuring out what some of these nicknames mean and find it part of the fun. Each time I learn a new monicker, I feel like I’m more a part of the community. It makes me work and think harder, which in itself is healthy. No effort, no gain. I disagree with the comments that we shouldn’t use them. When I explained “Steno Sue” to my better half, she chuckled. We might as well have a little humor–while dealing with such deadly serious topics. Unlike the rest of the world, when I am here, I don’t feel like I’m in a brain dead world. Well, that’s my 2 cents worth.

hi
i am a big fan of the site ever since my initial visit about a year ago.
this is my first time writing.
the way i found your site was through another blog’s link. what immediately made fdl stand out was the strength of its voice and the quality of the prose. you were pissed about something and were rightfully and eloquently stating your view. the other thing i remember was the depth of knowledge you brought regarding legal procedures and previously hidden aspects of the judicial practice. that’s what i remember more than the focus of the words. sometimes i don’t read entries that are too laden with inside references and nicknames. not because of a lack of knowledge or any kind of disinterest, but because i find it distracting. fdl is at its finest when pointing toward specific truths that reveal why we are all so disgusted. i don’t hate the politicians that are affecting our lives. i hate the way they act. lead through your heart more than through your scars.
yes, i do live in san francisco.
oooh, one last thing.
the images that are chosen to accompany the posts are excellent. these are an added value for the site and provide help for those who are not fully initiated into the dark arts of fdl. these images lend a tone to the post that can be used to decipher the nature of the text. graphic accompaniment and organization within the site could be developed in many different directions. this could also be a way to provide local and commuter service for those not ready to hop on the fast train,
thanks
phil

Phil,

Thanks for leaving your comment, even though now in the second day of this thread’s EPU’d Zone probably will be read by no one but me.

OhioBlue, Kitt, thanks for leaving notes.

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