
(guest blog by Taylor Marsh)
President Bush's approval rating hit a new low according to a new Fox poll, 33%. Baby, if Bush is into his base, even on Fox, can the news get any worse? Of course, especially with our president bumbling the visit of China's President Hu. It doesn't get much worse than this.
First it was Jeff Gannon sneaking into the White House press corps without credentials. Well, yesterday the Bush administration gave a Falun Gong protester press credentials. You can guess what happened next. A little over one minute into President Hu's speech, she began yelling, "'President Hu, your days are numbered!' ... 'President Bush, stop him from killing!'" But if you think that was bad, when announcing the anthem to be played in President Hu's honor, the "national anthem of the Republic of China" was introduced. That's Taiwan. He meant to say the national anthem of the People's Republic of China. Oops. Nice one, George. You didn't even get their flag up for the visit. Talk about incompetence, with a little U.S. humiliation on the side.
President Bush can't even get the "official" visit from China right. It's almost as bad as what the Administration has done with the policies of our country in respect to the exporting behemoth that had Hu walking into this country and meeting with Boeing and Microsoft straight out of the gate. Got bucks? Lou Dobbs isn't exactly a favorite among many, but when you're right, you're right.
The fault lies entirely with the U.S. government, our lack of strategy and our failed policies. This administration and U.S. multinational corporations have lost sight of the national interest. This administration and the Republican-led Congress have permitted the dismantling of America's manufacturing base and created a dependency on China for our clothing, computers, consumer electronics and a host of other products that is greater than our dependency on foreign oil.
Make no mistake: Our leaders are the fools, and China's leaders are not to be blamed for taking advantage of this administration's commitment to faith-based economic theories and so-called free trade that permits the Chinese access to the world's richest consumer market while China denies our businesses access to its emerging market.
George W. Bush and the Republican Congress are a disgrace.
Bush asked President Hu to "expand Chinese consumption of U.S. goods, enforce intellectual property rights, and allow freedom to assemble, speak and worship," but he might as well have belched into the breeze. Hu didn't come to talk to Bush. China came to make more deals with U.S. corporations. But when talking about the Bush administration's policy on China, you don't have to be a genius to figure out their bottom line.
Slowly but surely, the grand strategy of the Bush administration is being revealed. It is not aimed primarily at the defeat of global terrorism, the incapacitation of rogue states, or the spread of democracy in the Middle East. These may dominate the rhetorical arena and be the focus of immediate concern, but they do not govern key decisions regarding the allocation of long-term military resources. The truly commanding objective - the underlying basis for budgets and troop deployments - is the containment of China.
This objective governed White House planning during the administration's first seven months in office, only to be set aside by the perceived obligation to highlight anti-terrorism after September 11, 2001; but now, despite President George W Bush's preoccupation with Iraq and Iran, the White House is also reemphasizing its paramount focus on China, risking a new Asian arms race with potentially catastrophic consequences.
Bush and his top aides entered the White House in early 2001 with a clear strategic objective: to resurrect the permanent-dominance doctrine spelled out in the Defense Planning Guidance (DPG) for fiscal years 1994-99, the first formal statement of US strategic goals in the post-Soviet era. According to the initial official draft of this document, as leaked to the press in early 1992, the primary aim of US strategy would be to bar the rise of any future competitor that might challenge America's overwhelming military superiority.
One last item, according to the Times today, Yale became the first foreign university to get access to China's "closely restricted" securities market.
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OT.
When all else fails: “Send in the clowns”.
http://www.washtimes.com/natio.....-8296r.htm
Have a good weekend everyone, off to Cape Cod.
-GSD
Hey Karl, Hu’s that knockin’ at the door?….Fitz!
Clusterfuck is a very appropriate name for this idiot. Can’t even figure out protocall.33% is way into his base. Bwaahaahaaa.
Fitz and have a lovely time, GSD– lucky man! Me, I am raking detritus from my yard and fighting the black flies.
Good one, two beers!
have a relaxing one, GSD…
ya know, since we owe China so much money, it probably woulda been a good idea to invite them to dinner…
just sayin’
Will Durst writing at Crawfordslist:
Speaking of Rumsfeld’s prize quagmire, Iraq, President Bush said “failure is not an option.” So, apparently, it’s a factory installed standard equipment feature.
http://crawfordslist.blogspot.com/
Patric Fitzgerald convened the Grand Jury this morning:
http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/007439.php
I think things may be heating up for Rove.
CIA just fired an officer for leaking classified info to Dana Priest - not much info yet.
EPU’ed so reposted:
FWIW: Cheney (who shot an old man in the face) just did a quick RNC fundraiser in Indianapolis. With only 2 days public notice a few rabblerousers stood outside carrying signs like
DON’T
NUKE
IRAN
Curious bystanders treated us well and we got no negativity. I wore a bright yellow hoodie for obvious safety reasons. Cheney refused to talk to reporters so they interviewed us ;-)
Gyro Gear Loose — Thanks for that one! I howled, and it made my Friday afternoon.
nice work, *ilson!
Bravo and thank you *ilson46201– just how bad was the stench emanating from him?
Pelosi gives Dems blog tips: 5 of 7 blogs GOP: Developing…
God help us…..
Headline from Raw Story.
I’ll repost again. I am upset. The administrtion is endangering Taiwan with this BS. That’s for starters. Allying and arming Japan against China evokes horrors from the past since Japan has genocidal tendancies toward China, has never ever apologized and apparently some facist-minded Japanese don’t feel in the least bit apologetic.
*ilson - watertiger’s got up a good sign pic
http://derenegade.blogspot.com/
YAY@me ! I made the A.P. … I was carrying the UN flag seen behind the dude with the dog - you can see a patch of my yellow hoodie too…
I’m not one to give W. props for much of anything, but I’m not going to fault him for failing to roll out the full State Dinner treatment for a man who heads up a government that makes even the Bush administration seem a paragon of human rights advocacy.
Frankly, I hope that failing to fly the Chinese flag was an intentional slight.
KATHERINE HARRIS GIVES EVERYTHING SHE HAS TO YOUNG REPORTER
http://www.majorityreportradio.....003989.php
Like Josh said, her campaign is a train wreck because Bush weakened rail safety.
OT question: I heard a really great song about Bush & his war on Air America yesterday (Big Eddie’s show); any idea who it was or what it’s called? It was quite powerful!
jacob - doncha think we ought to stop doing business with these guys? let’s see… dinner? or a gazillion billion trillion in loans and business deals…
hmm..
jacob - Bush didn’t pull out all the stops, just naming the visit “official.” But Bush can at least make sure his people get the name of the country right.
“Dissing Hu”
by emptywheel
http://thenexthurrah.typepad.com/the_next_hurrah/
ummm, Jacob, they own a lot of our debt. We either deal with the Chinese within the bounds of international protocol, or not at all. It is along the same lines as our torture of pow’s being ok cause they do worse… We must not ever demean ourselves in order to seek revenge of any kind.
Yesterday, while speaking outdoors at the White House, Chinese President Hu Jintao was heckled. Try as I might, I have been unable to find a guide book for the proper etiquette of a heckler. I decided I would come up with my own list of the do’s and don’ts of heckling. I’ve also provided some novel suggestions.
Don’ts:
1. When you determine it is time to begin heckling, do not raise your hand in hopes of being called upon.
2. Do not begin your heckling with, “sir, excuse me…may I say something?â€
3. Do not ask security for a copy of the speech so you can find a point in the speech to cue your heckling.
4. Unlike with the exit row in an airplane, do not ask those seated next to you if they feel comfortable with their role of being seated next to the heckler.
5. Do not ask those seated at either end of the aisle if they mind tripping security when they race to remove you from the room.
6. If asked for your press credentials at the door, do not say, “Oh, I’m just here to heckle.â€
Do’s:
1. You must yell and screech in a shrill and inaudible voice…otherwise your incoherent message may be understood.
2. Check with all the cameramen in the room to assure they have had time to get a preliminary focus for your seat…your time will be limited and you don’t want to miss out on a good photo-op.
3. Provide your credentials and a brief synopsis of your rant to the press in advance so you will not be misquoted.
4. You must appear outraged and emotional…if you are having trouble getting prepared, ask the person seated next to you to administer several bitch slaps.
5. Once captured, continue to yell but be sure to look back at the person you are yelling at…it’s rude to avoid eye contact.
6. Whenever possible, speak in a foreign language…it heightens the curiosity of the media.
read full handbook here:
www.thoughttheater.com
Frankly, I hope that failing to fly the Chinese flag was an intentional slight.
Apparently that is the Bush school of diplomacy. Of course a successful visit with a U.S. president could also work toward making life a lot better for billions of people (re: Nixon’s visit), but that is apparently not of concern to those who wish to insult world leaders without regard for the consequences.
Go *ilson ! was wondering where you were
Per angie, China’s purchase of our Treasuries is sustaining our debt, our ability to occupy Iraq, ….”
I have problems with those that think the Bush Administration has a long term China policy. I don’t think you can lambaste them for the incompetent dolts they are and then ascribe to them chess like strategies (involving Iraq, Iran, energy markets, and the global economy). For one thing, it just doesn’t hang together well. For another, these are dolts who can’t focus on one thing, let alone two.
Hugh - I’ll agree with you. Although they do have a strategy: America - always good, always right; rest of world, always bad, always wrong.
It might be high concept, but it is a “strategy.” Fuck those pesky details.
I should have added fuck reality too.
“Containing China: The US’s real objective”
Um. Well. Maybe that’s Bushco’s policy objective, but, as we know, stated policy and reality bear no relationship whatsoever on Bushco’s flat earth. What we saw yesterday was not containment at work.. it was the Preznit trading a 21-gun salute (and a few unintended insults) for Chinese orders for Bushco’s leading corporate welfare recipients. Yeah, sure, there were a few muted pleas from the Preznit over currency revaluation, but otherwise, this was a trade mission. If this is containment, I’d hate to see what what do for our friends. Does anyone really think that we have a China policy? Or any foreign policy?
Taiwan. It just keeps getting better. Thank god the Bush administration came in to correct the missteps of the ‘amateurs’ and ‘wayward teens’ running amok in the WH hallways under Clinton. What professionalism.
Wesgpc - Last thread. There will always be the “base” for their rhetoric. But the great majority of people are not the “base.” I’ll take the “code words.” I think it does us more good than bad.
EPU,
That attitude, it used to be called the “ugly American”, I don’t know why but that term isn’t used anymore. It certainly could be.
OT: Oil over $75
http://money.cnn.com/2006/04/2...../index.htm
Okay, show of hands — how many Americans with even the most cursory knowledge of today’s China could have guessed that Falun Gong would try to disrupt President Hu during his trip?
That’s right, every one of us!
So, did the Bush Administration just screw up here, or were they trying to make a point about freedom of religious expression to Hu?
Every answer here says that Bushie and pals “effed it up again.”
If they gave a press pass, as reports have said, to a reporter from a Falun Gong newspaper, they just screwed themselves!
If they think they have any moral high ground over President Hu on the subject of freedom of religion, they’re just lying. They don’t support freedom of religion, they support forced conscription into the ranks of their religion.
Another day in the Bush White House where all decisions are bad ones.
I don’t believe the Bush government’s intent is to contain China so much as become primary suppliers to China. The Bush government isn’t running this county for the benefit of Americans, but rather for the benefit of a select group of corporations.
One of Bush’s first acts in his government was to totally capitulate America’s interests in the EP-3 surveillance plane incident. Remember that? Bush publicly apologized to China to get the crew home and let China dissassemble the plane and analyze its equipment, sending the pieces back in boxes some weeks later. That is not an act of containment.
I agree Hugh. I think they let the lobbyists write the legislation for them and then proceed to sell America for a pittance without any clue as to what is at stake.
We (America) doesn’t have leverage, except with our status as a debtor nation and our Cold War nukes. It sounds as though the WH all graduated magna cum laude from the Randy Neumann school of “Political Science,” and never realized Randy was snarking them in his song.
Does anyone really think that we have a China policy?
Yes, it’s to let facist fantasies run amok. Gee Gorbachev, how about those Nazis, says poppy? Gee Chinese, how about those Japanese, says Junior?
Yeah, *ilson! My daughter just e-mailed a little while ago with the news of Cheney’s visit - she works next door at Emmis and said there were snipers all over the place. The Circle is a beautiful and unique place as I was there early this week and enjoyed the ambience during my visit. Too bad he had to contaminate the area. Glad you got to say your piece.
If that protest was a planned effort to send a message by Bush administration, all I can say is that it was
1) amateurish and cowardly Bush league political theatre
2) probably very ineffective
3) abdication of responsibility of administration to make its case to China in stand-up, straightforward effective way.
I hope it was not planned since that would mean these people are truly ineffectual losers. No wonder they are suspicious of multi-lateral, multi-national efforts, and face to face negotiations. They are so incompetent and inept that everyone takes them to the cleaners. Except the poor saps they rule. They get taken to the cleaners by everyone they cannot intimidate, buy, or kill.
*ilson - can you get a link to your picture?
Crooks and Liars gives us a heads up to watch “60 Minutes” this Sunday:
“A CIA official who had a top role during the run-up to the Iraqi war charges the White House with ignoring intelligence that said there were no weapons of mass destruction or an active nuclear program in Iraq. The former highest ranking CIA officer in Europe, Tyler Drumheller, also says that while the intelligence community did give the White House some bad intelligence, it also gave the White House good intelligence — intelligence the administration chose to ignore.”
NYMEX …Crude Oil closes at $75.21 a barrel
Interesting and timely article, Ms. Marsh. Several things:
1. I agree with the Dobbs quote, and I’ll add that the Bush strategy was/is to leave this problem alone so long as its corporate friends made money. Loss of American jobs, loss of American technology…so what. As long as the Bush cronies made money, all was/is well.
2. As to your second article…I read the article, and I don’t believe I agree with it. Whatever words may have been spoken by the Bushies pre-911 on China were BS. I think the ONLY strategy the Bushies had pre-911 was to rev up star wars projects and other ABM projects, but ONLY as a means of helping defense industries make money. They tried to use N. Korea as a boogey man, but the real intent was profit, profit, profit.
Finally, the second article talks about a Bush policy of containment of China. Well….ok, but, what does an UNcontained China mean, from a nuts and bolts level? Are we afraid China will invade…..Cambodia?? Call in an air strike on Midway Island? Surround Guam? Ok, I’m being a bit sarcastic…but my point is serious. What exactly, from a military perspective, would a UNcontained China do?
Ghostman
John Casper - OT, I know you’ve been following the Duke case. I don’t have time to follow up, but have you seen this from TalkLeft today?
Duke: Second Dancer Comes Forward, Identifies Herself
http://talkleft.com/new_archives/014628.html
Mui,
Taiwan is not threatened by a remilitarized Japan. For one thing Japan has been remilitarized for years. The projection of Japanese military power will not be countenanced by anyone in the region, including the Japanese.
Danger to Taiwan comes more from Bush’s doctrine of preemptive war. If one state can preempt another, how much more so could China act so with regard to an “internal matter” such as Taiwan. This said, the overall US position toward Taiwan favors the status quo and a tacit policy to defend the island.
Our relationship with China needs to be much more … dare I say it … nuanced than containment or capitulation. That dichotomy is old world thinking and the corporate world has moved way beyond that - and is taking steps to think about the ramifications for civil society.
They are doing more to encourage improvements in human rights through initiatives like the UN Global Compact and serious climate change initiatives than the US government(which has become quite insignificant in these terms). The one real fly in the oinment is that the US government has expansionist dreams. These dreams are not backed by most corporates - they hurt profitability rather than help it.
I’ve recenly been at meetings with leading Chinese development leaders and one of them finally said “you asked us to become capitalists, and we have. Now you’re criticizing us for not also being socially responsible but you are not there yourselves.” This dialogue is being treated seriously by corporate leaders and I think holds some genuine promise - certainly more so than a US approach of diplomatic slights. Demanding proper treatment of workers as a critical part of the sourcing process is where we can put pressure on that gets results - skipping dinner not so much.
Cold war think is not going to carry us through a global world - and simple nationl protectionist thinking is not going to cut it.
I read emptywheels post and liked it, even though the subject matter is disturbing. I want to point out though that I don’t think China is 1000-years old in its diplomatic experience. I think of the experience as beginning and ending with different dynasties. In this case, it’s a survivors’ mentality. Or the protegees of the survivors’ mentaility.
RE: The price of oil, this will be their refrain:
“We had no idea that oil would get that high.”
Peak Oil is at work here, not just geo-politics.
I’m not one to give W. props for much of anything, but I’m not going to fault him for failing to roll out the full State Dinner treatment for a man who heads up a government that makes even the Bush administration seem a paragon of human rights advocacy.
I might agree with you if they showed any consistent principles in snubbing human-rights abusers.
But Condi is deferential and chummy with the murderous Macias of Equatorial Guinea, our newest oil-flush pal in Africa.
And let’s not forget Chimp Clusterfuck’s cringe-worthy forelock-tugging and hand-holding with the Saudi prince in Crawford. Mustn’t let human rights get in the way of Bush family business.
Of course, any trend toward snubbing human-rights abusers would have the torture-condoning Chimp diplomatically cold-shouldered around the world.
http://static.flickr.com/51/13.....f1606b.jpg
is a pic from the Indpls anti-Cheney demonstration. I’m carrying the UN flag in the background and a scant patch of my bright yellow safety hoodie can be seen…
Hu among us doesn’t believe that Friday afternoon’s the perfect time to Taiwan on?
Wesgpc - I agree. If it was planned, it was planned by Dean Wormer and the Omega’s.
JWR, thanks very much.
Bravo, *ilson! You look great in yellow :)
Woo Hoo *ilson!!! Bravo!
and extra bravo for the UN Flag!
“If they think they have any moral high ground over President Hu on the subject of freedom of religion, they’re just lying. They don’t support freedom of religion, they support forced conscription into the ranks of their religion.”
Yeah. Exactly. Intention matters here. Is there really any question that if Bushco’s wingnut far right extremist base has its way, then our country would be every bit as nasty as China is toward dissenters? Probably worse, where it comes to women and gays. China today tends to leave you alone as long as you don’t explicitly criticize or undermine the state… even if you are a dissident… there are plenty of environmental, anti-corruption or legal reform activist groups that are given a free hand there. I don’t have much confidence the same would be the case here if Boykin, Falwell, Robertson & Co were running things. Do you?
What makes us different from China isn’t Bushco… it’s the constitution for which the preznit is on record expressing utter contempt and which he appears to spend half his waking life trying to subvert. We shouldn’t feel good about any of this. China’s regime is despicable. What the wingnut right wants for America — a rich imperial klepto-theocracy — is far far worse.
$3 dollar a gallon gas, not just on the coasts but in the Red state heartland (and it’s not even May) will send Bush’s JARs into the 20s.
That nut Strauss, the ‘inventor’ of neocon? Don’t know much, but I have an inkling his ascendency is approximate w/McCarthyism.
The WORLD (including China) is different. Has moved on, so to speak. I don’t think neocon anticipates ‘teh internets’, etc.
In short, if we are experiencing an experiment in executing this theory, it is the wrong tool, at the wrong place, at the wrong time.
Sorry for the blathering; just trying to wrap my head around what I’m seeing these days.
David Byrne:”This is NOT my beautiful house!”
…and this is NOT my beautiful country, either.
Strange Days indeed.
Hey, ghostman. I think the second article captures the Bush paranoia, whether you agree it is based in fact or not. There is a contingent among the neocons that believes strongly that China’s militarism is a growing threat, with the next battle to be fought centered in the Asia-Pacific theater.
Pentagon build-up:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....01365.html
neocons’ vision…
http://www.washtimes.com/op-ed.....-2594r.htm
Nice. And they have veto power over at the UN, right? There goes any chance of a “diplomatic solution” with Iran. Are really trying to contain China? It seems to me that, if anything, China is containing us.
for the first time ever I heard abc talk radio critisizing the president last nite, I also heard “curtis and kooby” this morning which is supposed to be a ballanced show, kooby representing the liberal point of view, he doesn’t do a bad job, and curtis the right wing, this morning curtis was actually quite and agreeing with kooby
I think the talking point crew has been remiss
China is getting much better on gay issues. Recently I saw a CNN-International news item about the “Diversity Club” at a major Chinese University handing out condoms for an Anti-HIV Day event. It was cute seeing Chinese twinks with rainbow backpacks…
*ilson46201
Cool high-fives on the political action. Getting interviewed by the press to boot!
Hugh #59
Paid $2.99/gal today (mid-grade) in NW Arkansas. We’re usually about $.05 - $.10 under nat’l avg. Getting really close.
*ilson –
Good on you! And you didn’t suffer brickabrats in Indy?
Doubleplusgood!
Joe Bua # 37
posted yesterday morning - didn’t know if it was just another example of WH incompetency in letting her through or was it their usual playground style nose-thumbing ?
after my morning long trip around the fundie sites, I’ve come to believe it was indeed an intentional wink wink to the fundie base - apparently they all had the same fax - complaining about religious freedom in China, not a single peep from the ‘culture of life’ wrt the 1 Child policy
like everyone else here, I don’t think nyeah nyeah nyeah nyeah nyeah constitutes diplomacy
John Casper - at least we’ll have Austrailia - don’t wanna hurt no kangaroo
The best historical political parallel in Hu meeting Bush would be America at the height of it’s post-World War II industrial might, sitting down with debt laden Britain to establish new ground rules for Empire management.
For the sake of delicious irony, Hu should stop by London to give Tony Blair an update on the status of The Opium Wars…
What goes around, comes around…
~
I love how US introduced China by the official name of Taiwan. This has got to be the coolest prank ever, especially considering how China censors any mention of Taiwan. Take that, Commie!
OT (EPU’d by about a day). Scott Ritter may be an expert on WMD but he sounds like a lawyer. “Standing?” Cindy Sheehan doesn’t have “standing?” what does he think this is, a courtroom? every American has standing. every American has the right to say what he or she thinks. it’s called free speech! ok. rant over. will try (and fail again) to catch up with my FDL lurking this weekend. hoping for rain!
al-Scooter 53 -
That’s a cute one.
One of these Friday’s (soon) will find Rove Fitz to be tied.
Uh, Hugh.
I never said Japan rearmament threatens Taiwan. I said it touches on an ugly past, that Japan doesn’t apologize for. Never officially.
I have people living in Taiwan. & What you say might make sense to a Westerner, but it’s not accurate. How to explain . . . When Mainland is insulted by the West, tensions between Taiwan and Mainland get worse. There’s a nice little status quo going that threatens to teeter totter when Bush & Rice insult China. Kinda hard to explain.
EPU #54: Who are the Omegas?
I think it may be worthwhile commenting on the human rights issues that keep on coming up in any discussion of China. The reality is that things like human rights credibility are probably determined at the margin. Yes, the US, today, tortures, disappears and executes far fewer people than China does, and we also have far fewer prisoners of conscience. But, if you (or your family member) have been tortured, disappeared, executed or politically persecuted by our country, then this quantitative distinction is probably lost on you.
As long as the US renounced altogether torture, disappearance and politically-motivated detention, then we had the upper hand in the debate, and we coud, in good faith, confront thuggish dictatorships like Hu’s. Any cases which did occur in our country were abberations and the perpetrators would be dealt with by a firmly established rule of law… something China clearly does not have yet. In fact, even our human rights violators could be held up as examples to the Chinese… because we dealt with them and not let them fester.
Now, under Bushco, all this has changed. Now, the only argument we can make is that we “violate human rights less than you do” or “we don’t violate human rights except in defense of our democratic values” or “we don’t violate human rights unless we have a national emergency or the GOP’s grip on power is endangered” or “We oppose torture as long the torturer doesn’t own oilfields”. In short, we’ve lost the debate, no matter how much nastier the Chinese are. “We value freedom because we torture less” or even “We are more democratic because we only rig occasional elections instead of every single one” just doesn’t hack it if you want to stimulate the Chinese to behave better.. or anybody else for that matter.
Bush has destroyed our ability to contain, in the court of international public opinion, an emerging imperial like China. Now we just have more missiles than they do.
BTW. It’s that policy to defend the island that needs to remain *unspoken*. Understood, but *unspoken.* Old obligations are honoured if done quietly. Rice has not been good at that. She has f-ed up.
I also think you have to remember with respect to current Neocon rhetoric/strategy/concerns re China that a key underlying political theme at the roots of neoconservatism are the “Who Lost China” accusations after Mao won and the beginning of the repug smear of Dem’s being “soft” on everything, and its effects on American politics and society in general - e.g. the rise of McCarthyism, the Cold War, the Korean War, Vietnam, and on and on, til Nixon.
They used to well to their political advantage for a long time. And whatever happens with China will ultimately be, according to them, the Dem’s fault, b/c the Dem’s “lost” China back in ‘49.*
Which is also why Chimpco can’t change in Iraq, even though it is true, they will do whatever they can to keep anyone from developing the meme that “They lost Iraq.” **
__________________________________
* Of course, it was not for the Dem’s or anyone else to “lose” China, but, that is how it was viewed here in the United States.
** If you wonder why Dem’s like the Lieberman and Hillary Clinton and others are so afraid to speak out against the war in Iraq (or the possible war in Iran) it dates to the “Who lost China” meme. It still resonates. Shouldn’t, but still does.
Taylor, #61….hmmmm. I read both articles…interesting. I wonder if the Chinese officials quoted are just the Chinese version of “neocons”? I don’t know.
As to the Chinese military buildup…yep, they’re doing it, and they’ve been doing it for about 10 years or so. But what of it?
a) taiwan: we still have a good ole fashioned Mexican stand-off there. Chine bloviates, but knows a military invasion would be nuts. Still…one never knows.
b) chinese missiles: ok, russia has them too. I just don’t see China launching a missile attack against us.
c) chinese navy: their navy has been, and still mostly is, a “brown water” navy…meaning, it’s good for coastal defense, but nothing more. China wants to upgrade, and is. I guess the “$64,000 dollar question” is…to what purpose? Some think it’s a power thing…bragging rights, chest-beating, and all that. Others say it’s much more sinister, and america needs to counter with our own buildup.
I’m not sure where I stand on all this…but I do think, in one simple article, you’ve raised a TON of meaty issues and discussions.
PS: China & Japan: what’s the deal? Ok, I know about Japan invading China in WW-II, and the japanese were VERY brutal. Is that it? Those two nations almost act like there’s more…something that goes back thousands of years, or some such. Anyone know?
Ghostman
Wesgpc - You’re kiddin, right.
If you’re not: Greg Marmalard, Doug Neidermeyer, Chip Diller, etc. :)
My 77. FN**. It is at least one of the reasons, although with someone like Lieberman, who knows, since he is really a repug, he may think that the Dem’s really did lose China.
But for Hillary, I have no doubt it is true.
The Russians lost the Cold War because we had a more robust economy and spent them into collapse. If we are engaging in a new Cold War with PRC where the more durable economy prevaails, our prospects are grim.
wesgpc, Ibelieve that is in referance to the movie ANIMAL HOUSE. The Omega’s being the rich snotty fraternity.
Ialsobelieve it is reference.
Doh!! Oh, right, THOSE OMEGAs. Sorry.
siun - 9
That is so sad. If Congress doesnt’ get it s act together and offer these whistleblowers immunity and do an investigation, they are so much less than worthless. DOJ set itself up to be the tool of intimidation and now it is going to follow through. Heaven forbid that they can’t keep people from talking about the illegal, immoral, unconstitutional torture and rendition. OTOH, they can happily turn down investigations of the AG and President for authorizing those actions and issue lengthy memos to cover their butts.
We need to go ahead and formally repeal the US War Crimes Act. There is not one person with DOJ who would ever have any credibility pursuing any charges against anyone under the Act – they all either participated in, or sat silent through, the opinions making war crimes “legal.†They all sat back and did NOTHING while memos were released (Gonzales) specifying that the “enemy combatant†designation was mostly a ploy to make sure the administration escaped scrutiny under the War Crimes Act. NSA - nothing. Padilla - nice presser. So horribly disappointing and in the ends, they set it up for every US citizen who objects to the lawlessness to be stripped of any protection.
In the end, it won’t matter what DOJ does or does not find out about Black and Guam - they have already “briefed it out” that it is perfectly legal for the President to fire anyone in DOJ who investigates his cronies.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12423825/
Officer allegedly failed polygraph, admitted giving reporter information
The leak pertained to stories on the CIA’s rumored secret prisons in Eastern Europe, sources told NBC. The information was allegedly provided to Dana Priest of the Washington Post, who wrote about CIA prisons in November and was awarded a Pulitzer Prize on Monday for her reporting
. . .
The officer flunked a polygraph exam before being fired on Wednesday and is now under investigation by the Justice Department, NBC reported
Separately, the Justice Department is investigating a New York Times stories about the National Security Agency’s domestic warrantless eavesdropping. Times reporter James Risen won a Pulitzer on Monday for his reporting on the issue.
The NSA and other agencies had requested the probe, sources told NBC.
OT (and may be old news - not sure) but it looks as though our good friend Joe Klein has declared war on left wing bloggers - here’s the quote where he’s trying to explain his “nukes on the table” comments last weekend (inside brackets are, I believe, Mike Stark’s editorial comments). Check out Joe’s last sentence:
Joe: No, but let me say this. It’s not really an option because I don’t believe that the Bush administration, given the disastrous foreign policy of the last five years, has the credibility or the wherewithall to act unilaterally attack Iraq (sic).[this has got to be Klein at his absolute fucking stupidest. He still trusts the Bush administration to act rationally. wow.] And as a matter of principle, throughout my entire career, my entire career I’ve believed that we can only use force when we do it in concert with out allies as we did in the first Gulf War, as we did in Kosove when it was NATO. So for you to say that I am in favor of nuking Iran, you sound like one of those left wing bloggers who are so routinely innaccurate in everything they write about.
http://www.callingallwingnuts......-bohannon/
Carlyle Group to be biggest-ever foreign investor in China SOE:
In reguards to the witch hunt in the C.I.A for whistle blowers. We don’t need no stinking polygraphs. We already know who outed Valerie Plame.I don’t see a big effort by the whitehouse to do any thing about that leak.’Cept cover it up. I’m just sayin’.
Wrt to Hillary and Iraq, she backed herself into a corner. The position she took to avoid looking weak she can not now give up for fear of looking weak. In not changing her views, I think she places a higher value on her political image than on the needs of the nation. Not a big Hillary fan.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories.....7749.shtml
Ex-CIA officer - Tyler Drumheller, interview to be aired on Sixty Minutes this Sunday.
Drumheller, who retired last year, says the White House ignored crucial information from a high and credible source. The source was Iraq’s foreign minister, Naji Sabri, with whom U.S. spies had made a deal
. . .
“[The source] told us that there were no active weapons of mass destruction programs,” says Drumheller. “The [White House] group that was dealing with preparation for the Iraq war came back and said they were no longer interested. And we said ‘Well, what about the intel?’ And they said ‘Well, this isn’t about intel anymore. This is about regime change.’ “
But hey – let’s go after the “real criminals†in the CIA and FBI etc. – who would just as soon not see the US in the Gulag business and would really rather not be the holders of the secret prison keys.
*ilson 52
I’m so glad you did not start that post with “hi neighbor.” ;-)
everhopeful #86
Digby had a piece today quoting the blatherings of Joe Klein and Hugh (doesn’t deserve a good name like that)Hewitt.
http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/
New thread.
Wow! The quotes from the two articles cleared up some things for me. Thanks.
“It’s not personal, it’s business.”
Blub, 75
Excellent insight in your post. After Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo, trampling on habeas corpus, extraordinary renditions, and black sites, preaching to China on human rights is the pot calling the kettle black. Now with unwarranted wiretaps, we are doing what the KGB was famous for, only they lacked the sophisticated technology.
When we don’t have our morals and principles straight, in due time we become like the enemy. Sometimes the main difference between the prisoner and the jailer is that the jailer has the key.
This is getting very embarrassing.
Blub:
I completely agree with your refusal to allow arithmetic to determine moral credibility. For any official or agent of the American federal government to utter a single word about the human rights record of any other nation is almost laughable at this point in our history. That is to say, it might be laughable if it weren’t contemptible.
“Bush asked President Hu to “expand Chinese consumption of U.S. goods, enforce intellectual property rights, and allow freedom to assemble, speak and worship,” but he might as well have belched into the breeze.”
This reminds me of the pathetic trip that Bush senior took to Japan in 1992, joined by the heads of American car companies. They went there to *plead* with the Japanese to buy shoddily built American cars that were too large to drive in Japanese environs, too expensive to afford and built with their steering wheels on the wrong side for Japanese drivers. Oh, and then Bush Sr. threw up on the Prime Minister during dinner…
Needless to say, the Japanese didn’t exactly start throwing money at their competitors in the auto industry and I think we can safely say that the Chinese aren’t going to stop taking the money that short-sighted American corporations have thrown at them. Jesus, our national motto ought to be “Take the money and run” because that sure as hell has been our history.
I just spoke to a friend in Taiwan. It was disturbing. Here is my friend’s take. Mainlanders who watched the debacle on TV are likely to become fired-up, since nationalism is on the rise. The preznit’s behavior will be seen as a humiliating insult. Prediction: relations with Taiwan and China will be very tense as a result of the frat-boy-in-chief’s “prank†to the point of irreparable for some time, and the Chinese will find the Americans despicable.
More rumors: The Bush administration has coerced Taiwan into selling high-tech bullets at a fraction of the cost, and Taiwan is complying because they did not want to send troops to Iraq for good reasons. To sum it up, Taiwanese taxpayers may be subsidizing Bush’s “adventure†in Iraq at no choice of their own.
Contd. I actually softened my friend’s language up considerably and he’s not even mainland Chinese. There’s nothing funny, humorous or even remotely comparable to Bush I’s visit to Japan. Chimpy’s reception of the president of China was an unmitigated disaster with many possible outcomes and repercussions. And let me emphasize, the Chinese did not *hate* Americans before this. There are lots of diverging opinions and some antiWestern anger but nothing approaching that of Iran, and the rest of the middle east.
The United States has defended Taiwan in one form or another since 1948. Now its Taipei’s turn to help the United States. In the first deal of its kind, the Pentagon is planning to buy 300 million 5.56-millimeter rifle bullets for an estimated $62.5 million.
Came across an old despicable Washington Times article that says Taiwan is being “rewarded†for the deal with a huge “comprehensive arms deal†to fight off “threats†from China. Actually, the reality is that Taiwan may actually be paying for the upkeep of the U.S. “defense.†More dollar diplomacy . . .
JANE: QUESTION ABOUT THIS, FROM ONE ATTY TO ANOTHER — good point that you usually can’t call and impeach your own witness but what if you call them as an “adverse” or hostile witness? A defense tactic is to ALWAYS find someone else to blame. Of course, this makes no sense when you are charged with lying. Do you get discovery on that witness?
But can a def go to the prosecutor and say: “I want the dirt on witness X because I plan to call them adversely for whatever reason (they did it, or they ordered me to lie).
THIS IS WHAT YOU WROTE:
He’s gone out of his way to say who he would not be calling, and put Libby in the position of having to call these witnesses himself. Rove is one of those people. When Team Libby then argued that they were entitled to anything Fitzgerald had about Rove, Fitzgerald countered by saying that they should not be allowed to fish through his files for information with which to impeach their own witness.
Hu looked like the King of the World. Chimpy McBushwhack looked like…well, Chimpy McBushwhack. Shameful.
Gannon was sneaking in. I thought he was a plant who could throw softballs to get Scotty out of a jam.