
Guest Post by Ian Welsh
I’m in the odd position of being a Canadian who does most of his blogging on American politics for US blogs. It’s a kafkaesque exercise at times, and the recent Iran mess has reminded me yet again, that to a foreigner, the US really is “through the looking glass”.
Because to me the conversation on Iran isn’t sane. In fact, the idea of bombing Iran, either large scale conventionally, or, even worse, with nukes, is one I’m astounded is even being considered.
Let’s deal with the specifics from one Canadian’s point of view.
First: bombing a country is a declaration of war and Iran will react to it as such. To meaningfully damage the Iranian nuclear effort will require massive bombing. This isn’t one pinpoint attack. Oil will soar to $150 a barrel or so, your economy will crater, so will everyone else’s, your allies will abandon you and you will be all by yourselves. And people won’t blame the Iranians, they will blame you.
Second: Proponents of bombing Iran spend a lot of time talking about how Iran is a state sponsor of terrorism. Iran doesn’t sponsor terror against the US, at least not recently. You do this, that’ll change. You do this, you will come to see 9/11 as the good ol’ days when you only lost a couple thousand people, because not only is Iran a State sponsor of terrorism – they are very very good at it and there is every reason to believe they have cells in the US. And we haven’t even talked about the fact that even if most Americans don’t know it, most foreigners are well aware that the US is, itself, a huge state sponsor of terrorism.
Third: A lot of this is being driven by the fact that Iran does sponsor terrorism against Israel and that Iranian nukes will threaten Israel (note that they will not threaten the US directly.) Israel is the nation which spies most on the US. They are not your friend, whatever you may think. Of course, given the power of the Israeli lobby, and the specter of being called an anti-semite, no one is willing to say this. Let the Israelis deal with their own damn problems, it’s their bed, let them lie in it.
Fourth: Bush brought this on America by invading Iraq. The lesson of Iraq is this: if you have nukes you won’t get invaded. If you don’t, the US will (compare and contrast: North Korea/Iraq). Iran is acting entirley rationally.
Fifth: I think Canada should have nukes, because I know you invaded Iraq based on lies. I don’t want Iran to have nukes, but if I were the mullahs I’d be doing the exact same thing. The Mullahs aren’t nuts – they’re acting in self preservation. I know why they’re doing what they’re doing and it is perfectly 100% rational
Sixth: I have to tell you, that from a foreigner’s point of view, and this is true even in your closest allies (the majority of Britains, for example) you are a rogue nation. You invade people based on lies. You have no credibility on Iran. You are the boy who cried Wolf. You don’t obey the Geneva conventions. You have secret prisons. You torture people, including the citizens of your allies. You have abolished habeas corpus for classes of people. You kidnap foreigners and secretly ship them off to be tortured. You have endorsed Bush’s war crimes – crimes for which Americans hung Nazis who had been in no way involved the with the Holocaust. You could produce pictures of nukes and missiles and half the world wouldn’t believe you. Even if we did believe you, we don’t care enough to endorse going to war with Iran.. There are only two nations in the world who constantly talk about how they’re willing to nuke people without even being attacked first: The North Koreans – and the UNITED STATES.
You gave up the ability to stop countries like Iran from getting nukes when you invaded a country like Iraq which had no nukes and no real possibility of getting them. That was your wad, and you blew it. You chose to be weak. At this point, for you to stop Iran would involve you in a war you cannot win – or at least no victory worth having. You can’t occupy Iran, so are you going to really glass Tehran or the entire country? Do you know what the world reaction would be? Do you know what would happen to the dollar? Are you out of your minds?
Why is this even being discussed? And why is it that I can’t simply dismiss it as diplomatic posturing? When did the US step through the looking glass? When did insanity become reasonable?
Update: To help us take action on Iran, please scroll down to read this entry about our Roots Project. Thanks! — Pachacutec



205 Comments












Support this site!
Subscribe to the newsletter
Advertise on Firedoglake
Send
us your tips
Make us your homepage
About Firedoglake
Fitz it to me!
You betcha.
Firedoglake and Fitz and Feingold.
Typo:
“Fourth: Bush brought this on America by invading Iraq. The lesson of Iraq is this: if you have nukes you won’t get invaded. If you do, the US will”
should be “if you don’t, the US will”
Great post, Ian.
I hope you don’t mind my little call to action link at the bottom as an update. Since you write about Iran, I wanted to be sure to give our people every chance to get together to make a difference.
Insanity became reasonable after 9/11, as far as I can tell.
It’s as if we decided to take on the attributes of the worst of the worst and proudly, loudly display them for all the world to see: You think they’re nuts? Look at US! We’ll teach ya!
It is the worst time I can remember because the press is weak and/or subverted. The Congress is weak, venal, Republican and wants only to remain in power. We have forgotten how truly awful war can be, most of us. Not many remember the Great Depression. Damn if I know what to do.
Sorta EPU’d –
Building a military base on top of the Babylon archaeological site is a crime against human history, and is one more confirmation that Bush is the Anti-Christ.
Satan probably impregnated Bar Bush with some Hitler sperm, damaged by his multiple addictions; but whatever, George W Bush is the MOST EVIL human on the planet.
No, Mr Bush — the President of Iran is not the next Hitler — YOU ARE.
I am a former Marine Corps Officer, and I watched the run-up to Iraq while stationed with an Infantry Battalion. I shook my head at that one, but this time… I just have to say that you nailed it on the head. How can so many people be so willfully blind that they can not accept that our myopic view of ourselves is not how we are viewed by the rest of the world. This idea of attacking Iran is unadulterated insanity. There is absolutely nothing good for the USA that will/could come from it. If enough shout this from the mountains, maybe people will hear it.
Shorter Ian Welsh: Iran is more trustworthy with nukes than the US is.
Right-wingers will see that comment as satire. The reality-based community will see that as, well, the reality.
Well said, and I agree with everything you say.
BUT, I can’t get over the deep feeling that all this Iran nonsense is just a diversion. A way to keep our eye off whatever sleight-of-hand is being perpetrated today, and covering up for yesterdays unconscionable acts.
the two-state solution of Israel and Palestine co-existing is not the only solution. A number of folk worldwide think there should be just one country using the old name of Palestine with all citizens having equal citizenship rights. When you hear talk of annihilating Israel, it doesnt mean wiping the humans off the map but restarting that territory with a single, multinational state.
If I was Iran or any country with oil interests, I would pay any money to NKorea to get nukes. Self defense. No more, no less. US will run away from lit ike baby holding a hot potato.
This common sense somehow is lost on Americans who believe in God is blessing them and Christ is republican.
Ian- well said. Nothing to disagree with in anything you’ve said. From the comments I’ve been reading, I imagine that most of the regular commenters here would support the views you give. And, with that said, anticipating a reaction if the trolls show up do not feed them. Pach, are you on it? I have a few names from the past…
What does talking to our Senators do if Bush doesn’t actually go to Congress to ask for authorization on Iran? Is there any likelihood that he actually would bother with Congressional approval?
I can see Senator X voting against a force authorization if he got a lot of heat from his constituents. Maybe. But if Bush doesn’t ask first, Senator X is more likely to say some sort of “gotta support the troops in harms way” BS.
‘bombing a country is a declaration of war’
Is this really so hard to understand???
Now I know there is nothing more patronizingly sticky than a crotch full of condescending maple syrup, I love FDL don’t water it down with muck.
Every “you” in your article makes me feel physical pain, because I know this is how we’re seen in the world and I really believe our president doesn’t care how it may affect us, the American People who have never for a minute believed in him or his ignorant policies. I have a hard time going to markfromireland’s site for the same reason,in spite of his wisdom he blames us too because the world shouldn’t be expected to understand that there are millions of people in this country who are not like the “you” in this piece. We are loving and gentle people of all religions and races who want so much to return to caring for our own and having a country we can be proud of with a governmnet that is strong by showing compassion for the planet and all it’s people. We have never been touched by war the way so many others have been and yet the strike on the WTC has changed millions of people into warmongers who see nothing wrong with the horrible expense in human lives we are paying. I am talking about our own soldiers, yes, but I am also talking about everyone who has been killed as a result and those whose lives are forever changed. There are sisters and brothers and mothers and fathers who will always be in pain because they don’t know whether thier loved ones are alive or dead, if they’re in prison or have been hidden somewhere on a lie for political or monetary gain. It’s the overwhelming grief of this and many countries I feel, and the pain of loss that really never heals. I am very uncomfortable with this post because I want to pound a table and say this is not me, this is not us in community at firedoglake. It is not, but to the world, where we write out words doesn’t matter, it’s where we live that does.
IL folks – if you haven’t checked your emails, please do. Mack has made a proposal for tomorrow and we need your feedback.
Everyone – this week is the one year anniversary of the death of Marla Ruzicka and her colleague Faiz Ali Salim. Marla’s organization, CIVIC, is asking for a week of activities on behalf of the innocent victims in Iraq. Local activities and vigils are being planned – here’s an immediate action you can take and the Roots groups can perhaps support:
A Week of Action for Victims of War
On the road from Baghdad Airport one year ago yesterday, Marla Ruzicka and her colleague Faiz Ali Salim were killed by a suicide bomber while advocating on behalf of victims of war. Today we reflect on their powerful voices for compassion and remember all civilians killed or injured in conflict.
To mark this anniversary, we are launching a new website as well as a week-long advocacy campaign to raise awareness about the human cost of war.
CIVIC continues to be a voice for civilians caught in the crossfire and we need your help. Starting today and continuing for four days, you will receive emails announcing the ‘daily action.’ Each action is created to inform, energize and expand support for this critical issue.
Please help us make this week a success by participating in whatever way makes sense to you and helping us spread the word.
Click here to find or host an event in your area:
http://www.democracyinaction.o…..mplate.dwt
Thank you, as always, for your continued support of CIVIC.
As I said a couple of weeks ago:
“How stupid is attacking Iran? Extremely stupid.
If we attack Iran, we will almost certainly lose the tacit cooperation of Shi’ite Iraq.
Right now we can’t even handle the Sunni insurgency. If we lose the Shi’ites, it’s game over in Iraq. As in helicopters lifting the last Americans out of the Green Zone just ahead of the insurgents’ moving in.
Our ‘enduring bases’ ought to hold out a little longer, but mostly because they’re away from population centers and have runways for C-130 cargo planes.
But all in all, bombing Iran is pretty damned stupid. And that’s if the Iranians themselves do absolutely zilch to retaliate.
And they can do a great deal in the way of retaliation. For starters, they can cease oil exports for a few months, watch the price of oil double to $130/barrel, and make out like gangbusters when they resume oil sales…at half their previous output. For seconds, they could send a good chunk of their army into eastern Iraq, on the pretext of restoring order to Shi’ite Iraq – and our scattered, overburdened military would have a much harder time responding than you’d think. For thirds, they just might be able to instigate some terrorist attacks.
When you add it all up, bombing Iran right now would be incalculably stupid; it would be stupid raised to the power of the cardinality of the continuum.
Sometime in the future, I’d like to live in a country that’s run by people who have a clue or two to rub together.”
And that was even before OUR nukes got into the conversation. That part’s beyond insane.
Declaration of war = liable for war crimes.
end. of. story.
Thank you Ian– going back to read for the third time; not because I have reading comprehension problems– it is so wonderful to see the truth spelled out so well. ;(
Can’t you Canadians come up with some kind of rendition for Bush? Skip the planes and give the mission to the Mounties.
Thank You, thank you Ian! This post needs to be linked far and wide. You did a great job of laying it right out there in no nonsense terms.
And Thanks Pach for updating your post with your Roots contact info, I was channeling Me3 in that thread to urge people to please sign up. Here at FDL we need a permanent link to it in the sidebar or use the ‘Write Page’ function, to keep this project at our fingertips.
OT
Cracks me up to see DOJ going after other people for illegal wiretaps.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200…..d_wiretaps
pot meet kettle
We certainly went off the deep end on 9/11, but I have to think the roots go back much farther than that. I think American triumphalism after WWII played a part. So did the paranoia-come-triumphalism of the Cold War. After “the end of history”, the neocons just didn’t know what to do, but they knew the US was powerful, the only super power left, and “the essential nation.”
I have come to believe that there is an element in America that is truly evil, and I mean pure Joseph-Stalin-Pol-Pot-Nazi evil. Ever since the build-up to Iraq, the Al Stewart song “The Last Day of June 1934″ keeps running through my head. It is an odd song about Nazi triumphalism after the “Night of the Long Knives” when Ernst Roehm and the Brown Shirts were crushed, clearing the way for Hitler’s unchallenged control of the Nazi party.
Every time I think I’ve measured the depths of the administration’s malevolence, they show me how naive I am.
Wasn’t Iran supposed to switch from dollars to euros for oil trading? Whatever happened with that?
ck – Last thread. You are closer to total human consciousness than you think. Although I travel between universes, not the other way around.
MOre OT re: pulitzers.
I think Dana Priest’s was very well deserved, but the rest of the WaPo Pulitzers should be ashamed to be in the same competition with the gutsy, real to life, Times-Picayune – a paper that doesn’t need a steno pad and an Imnoturbudsman.
Kudos to Risen and Lichtblau too and to Kristof for his Darfur coverage.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/200…..hdA–
VG: keep your eye out. I have a lot to catch up on after my weekend away. Thanks1
Mary – Even in the EPU, a pair beats one of a kind.
I like the post, even if it was written by a sinister Candadian. Ian Welsh leaves out one aspect that should be of major concern to a US citizen, and that is that whatever the best course of action actually turns out to be over the next two and a half years, it should be debated in Congress, and should be the result of additional Congressional action explicitly authorizing it.
Somebody wants to nuke Iran in next six months? Somebody wants to try a conventional strike to destroy the nuclear program? Someone wants to do another invastion lite and then skip out after the shock and awe is over? Well, I think that the first one is absolutely bad under any scenario that arises over the next few years. The later two look like very bad decisions at this time. But if BushCo thinks its a good idea? Fine, I’ll listen to them, but let them present it to Congress and let’s have a debate.
Part of the seeming hysteria on our center-to- left side arises from the fact that we are afraid that BushCo will violate the law and constitution (once again) and just go do it.
The awfulness of how BushCo might do this in terms of rule of law in the US is almost as bad as the consequences of the act itself. Because if Bush can get away with this illegality and fraud twice, it sets a de facto precedent that will be a problem in the future. That is, it will invite future unilateral and bad faith executive adventures leading to misery and disaster.
For those few who think this issue is a diversion, I think they should consider the following: if we put equal focus on BushCo’s ideas about how the President gets the power to do these kinds of things, it is not a diversion anymore. It goes right to the heart of the unitary executive idea, and their “in a time of war” BS.
I saw ‘V’ today.
Mary and all Plameologists: check Tortoise’s post near the end of the last thread re the secret docs.
OK, everytime I post, the next screen I get is an error screen; although if I then load up FDL anew, my post is there. Very new and very annoying.
EPU – you are here to witness me emulating you again!
Its OT, but here’s a repost (just because it’s a Plamey thing).
Mary, Angie, FDLers
There is one more page on the NYSun web site that does not show up (at least on my computer). It is the cover memo for the July 7 version: http://www.nysun.com/pics/31062_2_0.jpg It is approved by a William Wood rather than Thomas Fingar and also has one more line — Distro: S, D, P, PA
That’s probably not very important, but this one may be a biggi — (I can’t take any credit – it was spotted by Cecil Turner on Tom Maguire’s blog, 1.33pm): It looks like the word “TOP†has been deleted from the space before “SECRET†in both the July 7 and June 10 documents (except for the appended 2/19 memo). And before paragraph 4, there is a one-letter space between the opening parenthesis and the letter “Sâ€, where the “T†has presumably been removed. These redactions seem to have been done to hide the actual classification level of the document. Assuming, of course, the deletions were made prior to declassification – I suppose it’s just possible (but very unlikley) that somebody at the NY Sun might have done some extra editing.
The gaps correspond to the number of spaces for “TOP†– very easy to see because its a fixed-space font. Also, there’s an underlined leading space before “Secret†in several places. Unlike underlined trailing spaces (which are common with word processors) I would assume that an underlined leading space is unlikely to occur without a preceding word.
Its very interesting, but I have no idea what it all means. Looking forward to hearing from the experts :0)
Russ’ censure means more each day.
Impeach!
Thank you for your candor. I can assure you that some of us in the US are as freaked out about this as you are. And we won’t allow another senseless war (at best) to happen without doing everything we can to prevent it.
I apologize if this has already been posted but this animation by Union of Concerned Scientists gave me a better idea of the horror being discussed. We need this to be common knowledge.
http://www.ucsusa.org/global_s…..tml”
Katymine last thread.
I am not from another planet, I AM an evil parallel universe. Why the insult? And, if you don’t get sarcasm when it hits you right between the eyes, that’s on you, not me.
Tortoise – Glad I was here to witness it.
In January I sent this comment to an emptywheel post around to my family. They responded that they were very worried–was I taking all my meds? See for yourself:
I grew up in middle America, where they don’t like to be told to vote for someone who will take away their guns and who will secretly give birth control to their 13-year-olds. Speaking as a parent, the birth control item makes sense. Regarding guns, I read an interesting blog that said the purpose of the Second Amendment is for when the First Amendment fails. Not sure if I’m totally with that, but interesting.
Now the battle is within the Republican party, for a realistic policy that takes into account our international treaty obligations, versus those who would have us face the world alone. A cold choice.
Whatever happened to universal consensus about Geneva Conventions? Do we really want to disengage from international treaties on biological and chemical war? Does the lone cowboy worldview make sense in 2006?
The neocon party currently in charge is steering us toward yet ANOTHER war of aggression: Iran.
I read somewhere that one of the first symptoms would be the appearance of numerous speakers we never heard of on talk shows speaking about bad bad bad bad Iran. You know, we could strike them with our vast military might. Do we even HAVE a vast military might, short of nukes? Our army is utterly depleted. Marines and air force not far behind. We could attack Iran, but then what?
I just wonder, maybe this time the nation we are attacking would respond. They could respond by attacking Israel/Jerusalem or other western friendly targets.
Is this the road we want to go down? For the neocons and the rapture folks, sure. I am a Christian, yet I cannot go along with those who would be fine with killing millions, on the OFF CHANCE that it might be the End Of The World and hence rapture/entrance into heaven. What if they are just totally wrong an end up killing millions of people? And they are trying to respond to the Holocaust where millions of people were killed? So….even, what? And then what about those of us who just want to live?
The same dark forces that killed John Kokal and Dr. David Kelly (”suicides”……..I don’t think so) are urging us to enter another war of aggression. Are there enough of us to resist this possible beginning of a true World War III?
Posted by: egregious at January 18, 2006 08:47 PM
Oops, try again.
http://www.ucsusa.org/global_s…..ation.html
OT– check this out re Joementum!!!
http://connecticutblog.blogspo…..colin.html
I am awed by your post, Ian. I respect you so much for just translating the spin into the truth. It is the way we should all be speaking to each other and to our neighbors all over the world. Thank you again. It is bookmarked for future dissemination, with your permission.
I guess I stand among the few here on this one. People tend to not appreciate the global link in contemporary society, that the U.S. does not exist in a bubble to itself is as important to realize for the world community as it is for U.S. citizens. Every country votes for corporate Bushist power, greed is not the property of the U.S. Why has Canada and the two faced Europeans with all there intellectual snob hobery themselves not made more than a pitiful effort to stop the U.S. My guess is their sneaky covert governments and corporations are all a part of it or the U.S. would have failed long ago. Other countries should try a look in their own toilet, root out their own stink so we have a better chance to root out ours. I don’t want to do your dirty work no more! And yes even the sweet neutral Helvetians.
Tortoise – It is all bullshit. I realize I am a voice in the wilderness at times regarding all alleged “Developments Libby”, but the point is that there is no there there (or anywhere else).
It is all meaningless to his trial, and, more importantly, all meaningless to the societal debate on ChimpCo’s failures, lies, etc. That has been decided. Not thta the lying defenders of the corrupt regime don’t deserve to be called on every lie, they do. But nothing is going to change the publics’ perception (and a rightful perception at that) that from Chimpy on down, they’re all incompetent failures and their policies are all based on lies.
Shorter me – They are beating a dead horse that has already left the barn never (I know, mixing metaphores, or perhaps conflating them, but I’m in the mood).
It sounds a little weird, but what in the hell are people doing in Iraq trying to protest the war there? Or convert folks to know the peaceful efforts of christian science journalists or Christian peaceniks? They need to be here protesting. Anyone there representing anything we think we stand for-good or bad– is extending an open invitation to the insurgents to whack off their heads.
We need organized protests that mean something in this country, like open tax revolt. (Nice to think of it after filing deadline for income tax.) maybe our little dab doesn’t mean much, but thoreau did it, and others, to protest the mexican war, and by God, we need to get started doing something like that before the bush bunch ignite any more of their insane empire fires.
Come to think of it, this immigration thing is about picking a fight with out neighbors to the south. Those folks see the nature of this beast. Clearly.
I can see the fear in their eyes, when they pay me their rent…which they do very faithfully. Fear can turn to defiance so easily. When it does, I’ll side with them.
DAMN These BULLIE TYRANTS AND THEIR BLOATED PROITS! DAMN THEM ONE AND ALL!
neveron 42, last para.EPU–Lovely! My dead horse left the barn a long, long time ago. Thanks!
C’mon, Ian.
Mister Bush is just trying to protect the Free World, which, even though you have that socialistic health care thingy going on up there, Canada is part of.
He’s not asking YOU to bomb Iran. He’s going to do it for free. And where is your gratitude? You’re not willing to risk a little blowback in Montreal or Vancouver in order save us all from mosques on every street corner? We should have anexed you guys when we had the chance.
I miss all jane and all redd, all the time.
there. i said it.
the U.S. tried to annex Canada in the War of 1812 and the US got its ass whupped and its capital burned down … wrong move!
Whom does one call when dead horses are found wandering around? They have been a real nuisance lately.
I miss all jane and all redd, all the time.
there. i said it.
ME TOO!
PPP – I suppose you are just spoiling for a fight, so I am foolish to reply. But as somebody who is very familar with another country, I can tell you that the main difference is that most people in those countries actually do understand what is going on. Its only in the USA that the majority of the population are morons who gloriufy their own stupidity.
EPU – I have a pair of posts, so I’ll see your dead horse and raise you a barn.
“I’m in the odd position of being a Canadian,” pretty much says it all.
But in Canadian Bacon (Alda’s best movie by far), we kicked Canada’s ass. And if liberal Hollywood thinks we should kick Canada’s ass but we’re constrained from doing so for political reasons(they sorta look like us afterall), well, it’s only logical that we nuke Iran. Hey, it works for me.
If you haven’t heard of the SCO. Read this. Looks like Russia and China just made a pretty big statement here.
Other nations can play chess too.
(Snip)
“The Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO), which maintained it had no plans for expansion, is now changing course. Mongolia, Iran, India and Pakistan, which previously had observer status, will become full members. SCO’s decision to welcome Iran into its fold constitutes a political statement. Conceivably, SCO would now proceed to adopt a common position on the Iran nuclear issue at its summit meeting June 15.”
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/HD18Ad02.html
-GSD
Tortoise – Be careful, Punaise may be lurking.
umm, nobody can sustain that level of output very long.
Not really spoiling just rubbed wrong, Greed is not ours and neither is ignorance. It is because I am well familiar with another country’s… that I react so.
EPU,
If he were, he would probably point out that Bush has not been cowed in his game of nuclear chicken.
GSD– somebody mentioned that nobody could hit us with missiles (or nukes) thru AK the other day… I was banging my head in the garden after that… Russia will never back down, nor will China. Pandora’s box indeed. Sad thing is, I don’t think bushco plays chess, just dominoes (without understanding blowback.)
Ian,
I don’t know when America went crazy. John LeCarre said it before the Iraq war, that America had entered a period of madness. So many of us hoped that the fever would subside, but it looks like the cancer has metasticized.
The US, with Bush and Cheney and Rove at the helm does seem to be heading towards a point of self destruction all in the name of self preservation. It doesn’t make sense and there are so many of us who are trapped in this place.
The powers in control are no longer sane or rational and the train has jumped the tracks and the train it won’t stop going…no way to slow down.
-GSD
Hi y’all — First time poster, long time fan (a nicer word for lurker). On his best day, Bush only represented 50.5% of that “you,” meaning American voters, and only about 2/3 of those who voted for him were (and still are) batshit crazy. The remaining third were merely idiots who regret it now. The rest of us, who were always sane, are hoping to take some of our country back in ‘06 and the rest of it back in ‘08. If that doesn’t work, keep a light in the window, Ian, because I suspect there will be a lot of new Canadians!
Speaking of planning to attack Iran, has the “one Democrat” mentioned by Sy Hersh as being notified of the official Iran attack plan ever been positively identified? For a while I thought it might be Lieberman, but today he was quoted that “…he knew of no ’set war plans’ being drawn up by the Bush Administration…”
And why would Hersh be so mysterious about the identity? Seems to me that if he were known, a lot of pressure could be directly applied to him to maybe tell the Preznit that maybe it ain’t such a good idea after all to bomb Iran.
ppp,
I would tend to agree. Just because we’re idiots doesn’t make the rest of the world Jeffersonian democrats yearning to breathe free. Being a great power means our actions will have great consequences. Yet we have placed this responsibility in people who wouldn’t know what responsibility was if it kicked them in the ass. (Sorry for language)
I’m really happy about this:
Mike Luckovich was awarded the Pulitzer for his wonderful cartoon statement on Iraq
http://www.pulitzer.org/year/2…..ich01.html
I’m off to bed, sleep well, friends.
Be nice. We need nice.
Good one, Mr. Jass.
“Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld asserted today that “progress has been good”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..tml?sub=AR
“There has been substantial progress, I think, in building a durable government during these last 3 years.”
http://www.lbjlib.utexas.edu/j…..680331.asp
EPU 28 – um, did I mention my OTHER Senator is Bunning?
Now whether he is pairable with anyone is a question, but fwiw.
Yup, Israel spies on the US more than anyone else. That ought to tell patriots something. This is not an anti-semitic observation – it’s a patriotic one.
Stating that the influence of pro-Zionist lobbies are damaging to US interests is no more bigoted than stating that Boston, MA was a major hideout for IRA terrorists, or that the Armenian lobby has been very powerful in the US (despite, even the assassination of a Turkish diplomat by Armenians on American soil). Does stating that make me anti-Irish? Anti-Armenian? Yes? No? Hypocrite much?
The thing I really can’t (under)stand is why stupidity and ignorance has become, in my generation, a point of “regular guy” patriotic pride. But I’ve seen it since I was a child, and now we can see the fruits of this development in US foreign policy – we can’t even be bothered to attack the right country.
Finally – someone needs to do a major re-assessment of nuclear policy for the post-contained world. Mutually Assured Destruction worked, and still works. But key to its premise is the ability to retaliate against a nuclear aggressor. Should Pakistan provide a nuke that bombs the west, might not Tehran be the site of retaliation? So what’s the disincentive? This is far more dangerous than proliferation among legitimate states…
Cozumel,
“There has been substantial progress, I think, in building a durable government during these last 3 years.â€
A statement that will be as true now as it will be in 3 years.
GSD – thanks for the SCO info. Looks like W has managed to solve the India/Pakistan tensions! Now they are both nuclear and pissed at the US. (and all those outsourced jobs may start to look like a very bad idea when SCO backs sanctions, eh?)
Superb post, Ian.
Although I don’t feel that I belong to this USA – the one controlled by and for these a*holes – it’s good if painful to hear honest words from the rest of the world. I’m with you, Zennurse, wanting to strike out blindly to try to ease the anger, fear, pain before it destroys more of my well-being.
Yeah, this is insane, illegal – any other judgment you can think of. Can we stop it? How? Congress is broken, imo; only what the leadership wants has a chance of happening. And even then – suppose that enough republicans join enough democrats to actually force a vote that makes sense; will these people actually stop?
Somehow I don’t think so. I don’t want to be completely pessimistic – for the last week I’ve been running all sorts of scenarios through my mind to try to figure out what action has the most chance of effectively stopping this madness – but the past behavior of these clowns makes me doubt that any ‘normal’ approach is going to have an effect. All I’m left with are things like a general strike; fomenting mutiny in the military; putting our bodies in the way of the actual planes. Is this as crazy as it sounds?
On a lighter note – *ilson: there’s probably lots and lots of solutions to the israeli-palestinian dance; if only they would actually talk to each other! Mindless jargon is not diplomacy, hemingway.
Mary,
McConnell and Bunning? Aren’t there laws against unnatural pairings?
BarbaraB– I second your plea– but the rethugs want walls around the country– nice new 21st century Berlin walls and no proper trade agreements with our neighbors. I would go for a real, live sponsor to shelter us as refugees from a country gone mad. There will be so many refugees.
Hey, maybe the Mars thing is not such a pie in the sky idea! Chimpy could be right about one thing. Maybe aliens can shelter the hopeless…
When did the US step through the looking glass? When did insanity become reasonable?
December 12, 2000
Oh Canada!
Great post Ian. Sometimes we need our friends to tell us the truths we don’t want to tell ourselves.
#59, angie: that was me who referenced the missiles/Alaska item. But you have the context incorrect. I asked “who” would fire missiles at us. Yes, Russia, and I “think” China have the capability, but they’ll never do it. Think “Boomer”. Part of our defense, nuclear missile boats….submarines. They’re out there right now, just sailing around. If Russia uncorks on us, those subs have standing orders to let their nukes fly. Boom, and down goes Russia.
Onward:
Mr. Welsh: there are many things in your article which I disagree with. Yet, sadly, many things in your article which I DO agree with. My giving a “blow by blow” of each of your points takes too much time…and may put many to sleep! So….let me suggest this:
I DO think your article is very well written, and sharp, in a good way. I would encourage you to send this article to editorial sections of all our major newspapers. I am quite serious about this. Most “here” are quite aware of the things of which you write. But I think Mr. and Mrs. America need to read your article. They’ll agree/disagree with much….but I think it will have an effect on folks. Please consider doing this. Thank you.
Ghostman
So now we have the State Department memo: http://www.nysun.com/pics/31062_2.php
Well, sort of. The sentences before and after the mention of Valerie Wilson have been redacted. Curiouser and curiouser.
“December 12, 2000″
I can still remember the empty feeling in the pit of my stomach. Perhaps many of us knew back then that that was the end of the good old days in America. I knew that my side lost, I just didn’t realize then, just how much.
-GSD
Ian, from one Canadian to another: Bingo!
“A lot of this is being driven by the fact that Iran does sponsor terrorism against Israel”
Iran sponsors Hezbollah, which itself is not a terrorist organization. 99.99% of Palestinians associated with Hezbolla one way or another are not criminals, don’t know anything about terrorists and could care less about America.
I wish we could say the same for groups America sponsors in Latin America and today in Iran.
and that Iranian nukes will threaten Israel
Iran has no nukes. Iran has repeatedly stated its intention to abide by the NPT. You’d think nothing would be simpler for the administration than to present evidence Iran has violated the NPT. Yet no such evidence has been presented.
How has it come to this? With the Generals speaking out, I’m hoping that a military coup of sorts will avert the unfolding horror of War with Iran. And if that doesn’t work, perhaps our mortal enemies of may youth, Russia and China, can stop this madness and save us from ourselves. The world isn’t anything like they taught us in ninth-grade social studies.
Israel has several hundred nukes and is NOT a member of the NPT…
Thank you Ghostman.
I still bang my head though. I do not trust us nor do I trust Putin. We crow about the demise of the Soviet Union, aka the only other memorable superpower. I believe they are a sleeping giant and they have a grudge against us and a desire to conquer the oil and gas rich lands of the Middle East to this day. They have real estate that is contiguous to those lands, we do not. Lots and lots of Americans will die in that boom scenario. They will protect their interests, to the death. All bets are off if we attack any country with nukes.
GSD #78
upon hearing ‘the news’ I immediately turned to my husband and said “These motherf***ers will make the Reaganites look Amish in their ambitions”.
BarbaraB – welcome aboard! and keep posting – we need all our voices!
Happy, happy, joy, joy!!!
http://www.mydd.com/story/2006/4/17/165450/305
Al Gore is getting the band back together.
Gore spokesman Mike Feldman confirms that the former Vice President is hiring Roy Neel, a key aide on his 2000 presidential campaign and the manager of Howard Dean’s 2004 run, to coordinate a new push on his main cause, global warming. …
Gore has said he’s not thinking about 2008 at the moment, but putting a political staff back together inches him that much closer toward being able to run for President. (Also reported today, his campaign committee has also written a check to a pollster, though they say it’s a debt from 2000.)
Thanks for your input, Ian. In addition to the insanity of nuking Iran, it is worth noting that it wasn’t very long ago that torture was unthinkable in the minds of most decent Americans as well.
9/11 really did change everything– mostly what it did was to reveal the terrible truth that we are not in fact a great nation.
I wanted to suggest hidden in all the frustration that not only do we have a great influence on others but also them on us. Many countries are deeply invested in the U.S. and have lobbyist and donate huge sums to Republicans and corporate thugs, don’t fool yourselves that were failing all on our own. A simple goggle will bring up that info. There are many inside and outside this Nation that are pleased with their profits and the Bushist’s though they may not say so in public or to the knowledge of the nationals. The world needs to make a cohesive stand as it is possible we won’t succeed on our own in war or peace.
Ian, way to desecrate the Canadian flag, my boy. But then again what is maple without the sap.
-GSD
83, angie…..well, I’m not so sure that Russia has such a grudge against us. Actually, I think that Russia has a TON of oil, they’re just still so technologically behind that their development skills are preventing full asset realization. Russia also has a TON of fertile wheat lands, but same problem as I just mentioned.
Now China…those are the folks I personally worry about the most. Finally, the “boom scenario” is actually just the old MAD theory. (mutually assured destruction). If somebody hurls nukes at us, MAYBE some missiles get in, but then those subs launch everything. The attacking country ceases to exist…right after us.
Folks used to make fun of the “MAD” theory….but it actually held up quite well over time.
Ghostman
ppp: sure some of the post rubbed me the wrong way, or it would have if it had been written before Iraq, or before three years of post-invasion criminal malfeasance and fraud that we have witnessed in that unfortunate country. I do not approve of a lot of what US has done in foreign policy, especially with regard to smaller poorer nations. But I don’t think the US has been uniquely bad in its behavior compared to other powerful countries. It is difficult to outdo some of the atrocities committed by the old USSR, PRC, Indonesia, Sudan, and others. But since the Iraq invasion, regardless of how disgusting (the US’s ex ally) Hussein was, the US has been lead by a rogue regime. Maybe not the worst by far, but I feel it has acted that way, and I do not like it one bit. The term “rogue nation†applied to the US, disgusts me. The implication that US has acted more roguishly than any other country would still disgust me. We still have lots of competition for bad behavior in the world. But it is a fact that Bush-Cheney administration have lead this country as if it were a rogue nation. That is something I cannot honestly deny.
I do not appreciate being told that I am responsible for, or approve, of the Bushites, since I have always actively opposed him, and the very few Republicans I have ever voted for, resembled GW Bush, or HW Bush, or Reagan, or that bunch in anyway. But I took that statement as a simple factual statement that many people around the world do hold the US public collectively responsible for Bush-Cheney now, after the 2004 election. That is a sad fact, but I think it is true. I haven’t traveled abroad since the 2004 election, but if I do during the remainder of Bush’s term, I will feel like wearing a ban-Bush button on my lapel. This is not only out of shame, but from a very eager desire to express my political opinion.
That the US has also damaged its self-interest and national security as well as its moral standing, makes it all the more infuriating.
PS to ppp #88: sure, many countries act badly and have shameful policies. So? Does that excuse us from acting atrociously? I remember France blew up a Greenpeace ship awhile back, and is being stubborn in the face of the social misery its necon ethnic diversity policies are causing. There are lots of slimy things that we can debate that France, or Germany and others have done in the last ten years. But that does not excuse us from giving into hysteria, fear and immorality.
spot on.
Ian, thanks for an interesting post. A question – in my experience, most foreigners I’ve met distinguish between Americans and the U.S. foreign policy. Do you find that’s still the case in Canada, or are things too far gone in the trust department? Because almost half the U.S. didn’t vote for Bush, and the majority of folks here no longer approve of him… And there is a great difference between “you have no credibility” and “the Bush administration has no credibility.” But cheers, regardless…
Seventh- Watch the world dump dollars, dump US assets, and stop buying Treasury notes….how’s that going to help our trade based economy?
I don’t worry too much about Iranian nukes, but a USD that suddenly is worh 1/10 of it’s current value should give us all pause to consider the ramifications.
i always like those canadians that hide canadian realities.
tell me please, why did canada join with france and the usa to effect a coup in haiti? removing jean bertrand aristide.
why did canada join with the usa,france, brazil, and chile i think, to energize death squads so as to eliminate the anti-letorteau[sic] aristidists?
why has it been that the canadian govt[supposedly leftist] has harbored letorteau[sic]in ottawa since the election of the aristidist, preval?
you canadians like to promote the idea that you are somehow independent of the evil empire. but, i keep finding you acting as amerikan lackeys..running dogs.
i think of somalia.
of afghanistan.
and of haiti, of course. what is it about haiti that provokes canada to join the usa in killing that country? of being a janjaweed in the western hemisphere?
you purport to be some king of anti-statist, some kind of anti-bushit.
so, tell us, why is it that canada joins in with the bushit to murder haitians, murder afghanis.
more to the point, tell us why the canadian intell services participate in echelon. why the canadian police state enlisted to join the cia with ewen cameron in montreal doing his usa-financed psychic-driving experiments on unwitting citizens of the usa.
and tell us, please, how the canadian sas has been invested into iran. for months the canadian sas has had its subalterns in the northeast of iran. why?
yet, i read you as if canada is the holiest of countries. how much compensation do you receive from the canadian govt?
OOPS! MISTAKE
the very few Republicans I have ever voted for, DID NOT RESEMBLE GW Bush, or HW Bush, or Reagan, or that bunch in anyway
***
To amplify: I will not accept Russia’s behavior in Chechnya, or China’s in Tibet, or Indonesia’s in East Timor (or more examples we can think of) as a standad against which to meausre the relative virtue or wisdom of US foreign policy.
Seems to me that all this discussion shows that MAD and all the other approaches to war, nuclear and otherwise, are passe—only as a world we haven’t figured it out yet. We need to start exploring new models of global existence. I know that sounds naive and trite, but it has to start someplace. Why not with a community like this?
Hello BarbaraB and welcome!
Ian, there’s been a number of news reports, including 60 Minutes, about your “oil sands” in Alberta. And we’re hungry, dontcha know? There are lots of very good neo-conny reasons to bomb Iran, among them $150/bbl oil, which makes those sands in Canada more than viable, extract-wise. Billmon had a great contrarian post this weekend about the potential for a giant worldwide “so what” shrug should we bomb Iran, and I think Billmon might be right. Sure it’s illegal (except the Preznit did it, so it’s not) and sure it’s immoral (but that ship sailed a while ago). There’s no economy un-tied from the USA, since everybody owns our Treasury bonds now, and no one wants to see us isolated and reneging on our debt.
Oh, and zenn, I totally agree that “you” isn’t us, but you can’t spell Unitary Executive without “U!”
========
Had enough?
========
Nicely put, Ian. A friend who recently traveled overseas on vacation came back with the clear impression that many people around the world think the US has lost it’s collective mind. They’re terrified. You’ve summed it up well.
Dec 12,2000– a day that will live in infamy.
Then one morning, we were bombing again in Iraq after chimpy was elected. I vomited.
The morning after November 2004 election– we went to bed around 2 am feeling as though we had done something to change the course…Kerry not our first choice, but we worked so, so hard to change the regime… banging on doors, holding signs, going to meetings, talking to everybody including those with obnoxious bumper stickers at the grocery stores, writing letters, meeting with and writing to legislators….
Woke up and once again, bushco was in power and my S.O. said after Kerry’s concession speech: wipe your tears and get over it. We are doomed for the next four years. He was pale and shaken, too.
I won’t lie down, I still fight against the repressive and regressive and dumb ass yoke around our collective necks.
Ghostman– I trust neither Russia, China, India nor Pakistan; neither do I trust us under this administration. The smartest man on the planet that I know said a long time ago (like 20 years ago) — beware of China. It is time for us to talk to other nations– soon they will eclipse us. I really believe it. We credit Reagan with the “Mr. Gorbachev, tear down that wall”, but in reality, it was the Afghans who kicked their ass.
OT.
Time.
While reporting on the conviction of former Governor Ryan in Illinois, Time omitted his party affiliation–completely. They did offer this little, non-partisan, liberal slant though:
“On Monday, former Governor George Ryan, 72, became the third of the state’s last six governors to be convicted of political misdeeds, and the current administration of Democrat Rod Blagojevich is also being investigated.”
Fucking amazing.
-GSD
96….us financed psychic driving experiments??? Oooook.
Ghostman
We could all join in mutual denunciation festival. If we ticked off the sins that every nation state is committing right at this very instant, we could get some foreigners on board this blog here and have a jolly time sticking pitchforks into each other all the way to hell.
But it is GW Bush and Cheney who may be planning very immoral, destructive, and for the US, self-destructive, deviltry right now.
All the other Great Powers currently committing atrocities such as Canada, der Schweiss, Sudan, PRC, France, Lichtenstein and Nepal, will just have to get in line and wait. As a US citizen, I’ll be willing to discuss them after we have our own house a little more in order.
One more.
Looks like Doolittle might be one of the Coburn 7.
It appears he may have done what most mobsters tend to do when they see legal troubles on the horizon:
“Lawyer-up”
From TPM:
http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/000397.php
-GSD
Well color me Bush though the truth be probably least so even in these parts, hypocrisy sets me off and my often experiences all over outside the bush is that people of the world have more to offer than the shallow perception of comparing me or attributing actions of this administrations to me, for if so were true find me staking out Texas not dining among the frogs. I take offense plain and simple and travel to often to except this blanket of mistruth if even spoken from comrades.
wesgpc @ 104
Yes, you are right– tis time for our own spring cleaning!!!
Here’s a nice little pic that I made, with my VERY special message to the Preznit, which, I think, sums up the majority consensus on this subject…
http://www.bartcopnation.com/d…../12320.jpg
Help pass it on.
Please… Feel free to use it Liberally.
–mf
Somewhat OT, via Atrios – Holy Joe speaks out on Iran. Says the Armed Services Committee has not been briefed. Doesn’t say whether he has been.
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/S…..2FShowFull
GSD-Nothing TIME does any more surprises me. Bastards.
I haven’t seen any analysis yet, but did the Fitzgerald conviction of REPUBLICAN former Governor of Illinois, George Ryan cause Scooter Libby and Karl Rove and the rest of the ethically challenged Bush Cabal to collectively shit a pickle?
-GSD
Inquiring minds want to know.
yes, ghostman.
apparently you are too young.
the allan memorial institute. also known as ravenskrag.
for a pretty good record of the canadian monstrosities – think of canada and cameron as neo-nazis.
some of my library is in storage, but this one i find still on my shelves.
PSYCHIATRY AND THE CIA: VICTIMS OF MIND CONTROL
by Dr. harvey weinstein. published by the american psychiatric press. isbn # 0880483636.
acquire, read and recognize that canada has been a handmaiden to stalinism for decades.
wake up, smell the coffee.
http://tinyurl.com/a6erq
Censure Impeach
Please help and pass the link around.
http://www.congress.org/congressorg/home/
^^ Please feel free to send this post to your Reps & the media:
Starting World War Three
The United States of America is losing the war on terror. This is the very definition of being misled.
The war on terror is largely a propaganda war. The terror threat has been dramatically propagandized by Bush and his followers. In the process of swallowing this propaganda, we have lost significant rights to privacy and civil rights here at home. We have lost the hearts and support of our former allies overseas, and we have lost the battle to win over the hearts and minds of our supposed enemies. As the propaganda and lies are exposed, Bush has lost the hearts and minds of Americans at home. The Bush administration response is to increase verbal attacks on Americans, and an increase in the propaganda push by his followers.
At the time of the the attack on September 11th the number of terrorists worldwide numbered a few thousand individuals. The Bush administration reacted to the threats of this relatively small and weak group by producing an on-going and multi-billion dollar “war on terror”, most of this war was nothing but a farce.
But due to overreaction by citizens of this country, combined with a full force propaganda effort by the Bush administration and their controlled media… We are now mired in Iraq, which was a secular, non-terror supporting country under Saddam. As a result of our invasion, we have opened up the worlds largest terrorist training camp under Bush, where formerly peaceable civilians are picking up arms and learning the tools of the terror trade in battlefield conditions. This is the worst possible outcome for people who truly want to suppress terrorism. The number of terrorists and the number of terrorism attacks are expanding and growing under Bush’s faulty leadership.
Under the Bush administration the war on terror will never end. This war cannot be won following Bush’s policies. Since the people who are making terror war policy will not change, we must install new people in order to implement policy changes that will deescalate the violence, restore our lost civil rights, and bring peace to the world.
It is clear we are on the wrong path. Stubborn adherence to beliefs spawned by fear and propaganda, unwavering support for the Bush administration, and increased oppression at home and overseas will only see the problem with terrorism and rogue nations continue to grow and escalate.
World War Three is the logical conclusion of the Bush administration war policy.
http://tinyurl.com/a6erq
Bush seriously concidering attacking Iran is not rational
he is a dispensationalist that wants to bring about the end of days, to call forth the battle of armageddon.
he doesn’t concider the consequences, he believes he is a messenger of god and has even claimed that god talks to him
Je me souviens!
We need to see the countries of the world pledge to declare war against the United States if Bush attacks Iran.
Okay, maybe that’s not really possible. Next best: countries announce their extremely strong opposition to any military action by the U.S. against Iran.
Okay, still not possible? Um, they could weakly say they love peace and freedom and pledge to kiss George Bush’s ass if he asks them to?
Um, a bit too strong? They pledge to rush over and camp outside the White House begging to kiss his feet?
Yeah, now I get it. The world’s governments care enought to complain once Bush uses the nukes, but not enough to lift a finger to stop him.
I guess I shouldn’t have even mentioned any of this. It’s, you know, disquieting.
Can WE do anything to stop Bush??
OT, but so very Republican values-
WORLD EXCLUSIVE
APRIL 17 2006–Venice,FL.
by Daniel Hopsicker
One of the two owners of the DC9 (tail number N900SA) busted at an airport in the Yucatan last week after lumbering in from Caracas, Venezuela carrying an astonishing 5.5 TONS of cocaine was appointed in 1993 to the Business Advisory Council of the National Republican Congressional Committee by then-Congressional Majority Leader Tom Delay, The MadCowMorningNews can exclusively report.
The plane’s registered owner, “Royal Sons LLC,†a Florida air charter company, was at one time housed in a hanger at the Venice Fl. Airport owned by infamous flight school Huffman Aviation.
Also of major significance is the fact that photos of the DC9, seized last Monday in Ciudad del Carmen, reveal that the plane is painted with the distinctive blue and white color color scheme of official U.S. Government planes.
Moreover, to reinforce the effect, or subterfuge, the plane carries an official-looking Seal painted on its side, which reads: SKY WAY AIRCRAFT, PROTECTION OF AMERICA’S SKIES, around an image of a federal eagle clutching the familiar olive branch in its talons. Many have been fooled into concluding that the plane belongs to the U.S. Transportation Security Administration.
http://www.madcowprod.com/04172006.html
How guilty are we? Is Ian’s “you” really me? I think there are two answers:
No matter what we have done to oppose this war and the threat to Iran, it is our government that does this and unless we are active war tax resisters, it is our money that buys the bombs. And we have been complacent and uninformed – ignoring the vicious foreign policies of all recent presidents (this is not simply a W or a republican issue). We went along with sanctions and bombings of Iraq and ignored the warnings of the deaths of several hundred thousand children, we did not demand a just middle east policy, we increased our addiction to oil and our greedy overcomsumption of the world’s resources. And we have not come up with a way to make them stop. For these reasons, I say yes, we are guilty, we are the good germans and we must face this and answer for it.
But we are also a part of a wider world community and that wider world has gone along with american dominance, as enthralled in many places with american consumerism as americans ourselves and also unwilling to sacrifice in order to stop american colonialism. It has clearly been appealling to many countries to detest america while sharing in american corporate growth. And when america attacked Iraq, the other nations of the world did not impose sanctions or act to stop W&Co.
It is convenient to see americans as globally uncouth (and we are) and geopolitically uneducated (we are) but it is also satisfying for those outside america to detest america while ignoring the use of their airfields in US renditions. And the growing anti-muslim attitudes in much of Europe leads many of those countries to publicly condemn american aggression while vicariously encouraging the GWOT.
As americans we see that our government has been taken over by a criminal coup and we are apparently powerless to stop them now. Our lack of action earlier, our lack of willingness to face the actions of our government in the past – in Latin America, in unqualified support for Zionism, in exploitation of developing nations – and stop them. But we are now held hostage (though quite comfortable hostages) to a regime that we do not support and cannot stop.
The rest of the world is right to reject american wars and imperialism – but is also responsible to call a stop to american war crimes, to name W&Co for the criminals they are, to demand trial in the Hague for torture and aggression, for the murder of so many innocents. If the leaders and people of the rest of the world do not stand up and demand an end to W&Co’s crimes, they will become complicit as well.
Yeah, that’s about right. I’ve said the same.
albertchampion:
Yes, Canada is culpable and has been in league with us for some things, and I think it valuable to point them out in a truly honest discussion of our relationship. I personally do not think this is the moment, because I believe Ian is giving us his personal take on the situation we are faced with, he should not have to serve as an official of the history or government of Canada. (fwiw– they are much less soiled than we are.)
“Let’s deal with the specifics from one Canadian’s point of view.”
It is like blaming Riverbend for Saddam. IMHO, I do not think it is a fair response to an honest assessment and friendly advice from Ian. Goddess, help me. It is like blaming me for chimpy…
*ilson –
Thought you gave up the “w” for lent? Now that you’ve learned you can get along without “w,” are you going to give it up permanently?
Are Christy and Jane coming back soon? Oh, please let it be so. . .
Withdrawal is no fun, even though the guest posters are awesome!
Plameology is a lifebuoy to those of us who have living nightmares about war in Iran — a hope that there is some justice somewhere.
Though the NH phone jamming thing also seems to have some potential.
Looks like North Korea has been demoted.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200…..lestinians
Israel warns of a new “axis of terror” including Iran, Syria and Palestinian Hamas.
-GSD
GSD–
I don’t want to go there. Another example of the abject failure of our guvmint…
monkey see, monkey do. Goodnite and hope we all wake up in the morning. otherwise, hope we are huddled with our loved ones. an abject failure…
albertchampion appears to what he’s talking about. You have a website Albert? I’d like to know more.
Just google “ewen cameron montreal” and take a look and the crap that brings up. But Alberts’ larger point is simple, Canada is no innocent here, even if Ian’s public stance here seems to say: “You big bad Americans, it’s all your fault.” Yes, we have blood on our hands, Albert is trying to say that Canada does too.
On the other hand none of this solves our present crisis. But then, I’m not convinced there is a solution to trigger happy GeeDubya.
I don’t think we’re in Kansas anymore Toto.
;)
Jesus Siun, it’s like following Hendrix on stage ! fabulous girl.
just want to say I’m still not sure on the whole Bush/Endtimes thing, yeah I know the fundies believe it, and he is very much the monster/war criminal/pigfuck we think he is. smoke is definitely being blown up his ass, but it is Cheney/Rumsfield telling him “You da Man!, ‘You can do this’, ‘They’re all wrong’
‘You’ll Suceed! propelling this madness forward.
If he truly believed that shit, he’d want to be out circulating among The Righteous, lots of ‘clergy’, and he’d be ‘testifying’, lots of public pronouncements, etc. not a peep.
this is a delusion of ‘taming’ the Mid-East, hence all that grandiose ‘history will judge’ crap
smells like EPU spirit
I have to tell you, that from a foreigner’s point of view, and this is true even in your closest allies (the majority of Britains, for example) you are a rogue nation.
Yep – this is what we’ve become: a ROGUE NATION.
Thomas Jefferson must be spinning in his fucking grave.
I am beyond embarrassed and nearly humiliated.
This whole thing looks like a classic lose/lose situation.I am quietly praying that something stops this dude from starting ww3.I can hope this visit from the chinese BigDog will be it….China has a deep interest in Iran,and might decide its time to play hardball with the nutcake-in-chief.Dumping 850 billion into the hopper would smash Bushes imperial design so fast the congress wouldnt have time to impeach before the riots started
Israel is out enemy?
This is all the fault of the Israeli lobby?
Did I miss the joke somewhere?
Wow.
Ian,
I endured your post with only slight twinges of patriotism racking my body. It can be hard, sometimes, to hear the truth.
I also appreciate the fact that while these are bleak times in United States and world history, one thing is missing from the general equation.
As a nation, the United States does not like to be made a laughing stock or ridiculed or loathed. The majority of us want to do what is right and fair. The only bright side I can think of to come out of this mess, is when the dust finally settles from this administration, (if you haven’t noticed, the WH has been completely impotent for a little over a year) the United States will emerge a stronger democracy. oh, and we will eventually lead the world to renewable, alternative fuels.
This is what we do. Sometimes, bums take over, takes a while for the citizenry to wake up, but when they do Shit gets set straight in a hurry!
Once we get a good leader elected, maybe we can have him pressure your new PM to not be so BushJrish.
Thanks for the input, Neil Young, and Rush!
-your brother to the south
cbl – next I pour gasoline on my laptop and …
thank you
and you are very very right I think – we like to see W as buying the millenialist meme but I think he and his cohorts are just using it to front their crime family and are not true believers … like Jim and Tammy Fay spouting psalms while they rake in the cash
on a happier note (and with one mild caveat – this includes a positive comment about Obama and McCain which I will raise with my contact), a friend sent a link to a new and important global warming initiative complete with a very good 4 minute movie (which my friend produced) which should be shared widely – along with the action steps attached – this is something we can all do no matter our location – offsetting our own carbon emissions is actually quite inexpensive and makes a big impact:
I’m very pleased to announce the launch of a 4-minute flash movie on climate change that I produced over the past year in partnership with Stonyfield Farm and two nonprofits, Earth Day Network and Clean Air-Cool Planet. The movie is part of an ambitious campaign to mobilize citizens to take mass actions to change — or circumvent — our political and corporate leaders’ tepid response to climate change.
The movie — a “documentary” told from 2056 — tells the story of how “2006 was the year that changed everything,” when tens of thousands of citizens come together on the Internet to buy clean power. That unleashes a succession of positive changes, as utilities scramble to build wind and solar farms, individuals make fortunes investing in new clean-tech companies, and old dinosaurs like Ford and McDonald’ find profit — and salvation — in clean, green technology. Even Martha Stewart gets involved.
To view the movie and the plan, click here:
http://www.renewus.org/index.html
Hugh 73 – it is Kentucky, and while Lexington is God’s country and heaven on earth, the people breeding isn’t nearly as scientific nor as results driven as the horse breeding.
BTW – for those dead horses wandering around – call the insurance co. ;-) The name Helen Brach may come to mind.
Ian:
I’m glad you seem to be happy for American’s sake that Iranians haven’t killed any of us in appreciable numbers lately, though I suspect Iraqi’s would have a reason for strong disagreement with you. Though you show a bit too much pride in their efficacy at murdering innocents. As you say, they are very good at it. They’ve had a lot of practice.
As to your note about Israel: yes we realize it is a complicated relationship. If it wasn’t that it wasn’t the only free, western country in the region (with a constant threat of genocide over it), it would different. If Israel was plopped in the middle of Europe it would be irrelevant on the world stage. Rather like Canada really…
Note:
If you haven PROVEN nukes you don’t get invaded. There’s still a bit a time in regard to Iran on that. That’s a pretty good point in favor of acting now really.
Also:
You can have nuclear weapons if you wish, with my blessings. After all, a Canada with nukes is still not as much as a threat as a Canada with Wayne Gretzki. Seriously, what would you do with them? Outside of your token military, we provide all your security anyways.
Finally: if the majority of Americans cared what you foreigners thought in the first place we never would have created a constitutional government based on individual rights. Which was rather unpopular with the rest of the world at the time (and then bungled when it did become the ideology du jour). Besides, despite your, no doubt informed, opinion of foreigners about my country they continue to move here remarkable numbers. Or, in the case of Canadians (another popular immigration spot), at least get their medical care here.
P.S. As a Canadian, we can at least take your concern as sincere as opposed, to say, a German or Frenchman, or UN staff member, who may have barrels of oil (bunker building, weapons systems, buildings, take your pick) involved. Perhaps, your dislike for my country is exacerbated by a realization the provinces that are not de facto American ‘burbs are France’s bumpkins? At any rate, thank you for your heartfelt concern. Cheers!
I try to tell conservatives this not as clearly or eloquently of course but they can’t seem to hear it. Despite the failure without end that is Iraq and the budding failure of Afghanistan they believe or want to believe Iran will be some sort of cakewalk. It’s frustrating because if we let this happen the US will be a pariah state; broke friendless and isolated.
Warning: Troll in the house (at #128).
Don’t feed.
noen,
that was a very perceptive response.
still,no canadian cares to tell me why it was that canada joined with the bushits to implement a coup in haiti. to launch death squads.
in fact, it continues to fascinate me how the purported anti-fascists have ignored this coup.
oh, i hear the left agonize over darfur. yet, within 300 miles of miami, the usa, canada, france, brazil, chile are responsible for death squads and the murdering of thousands of haitians.
and the sty gets not a bit of a notice in the us media. nor the canadian media. nor the french media. nor the brasilian media. nor the chilean media why is that, do you think?
in your western hemisphere backyard, the usa and the canadian govts are killing black children, black women, black men. with malice aforethought.
and you care not to give a damn. why is that?
worrying about darfur. worth worrying about to be sure. but i shall say it again, right in your backyard the usa, canada, france, brasil, chile are committing genocide in the western half of hispaniola. with your permission?
what is the objective with haiti? why do the bushits, the canadians, the french, the brasilians, the chileans congregate to committ genocide?
tell me, please. why are all these countries so eager to kill haitians?
Meant to say #129 (not #128, sorry).
Thanks Ian for yet another example that one can always rely on their true friends for the truth
“We the people…” are searching our hearts & minds for the action(s) to take to end this insanity and, obviously, we are frightened & stumped
On the topic of Pulitzer Prizes note this winner – the photos are stunning :
“They are the troops that nobody wants to see, carrying a message that no military family ever wants to hear.
It begins with a knock at the door…”
“You don’t prevent anything by war except peace.” – Harry S. Truman
In 131 I realized, the rest of the sentence after “appreciable numbers lately” is vague in intent. Instead, “they are too busy killing Iranian College students, Iraqi civilians, and Canadian journalists to bother with us at the momen.” makes the point much more clearly.
Make that 133, probably shouldn’t even bother with post number as they seem to fluctuate around here. Look for the troll as THE GREEN LATERN!!!! would say.
I swear on this yellow cake this is the last blogger smog out of me. Sometimes it’s as difficult to tell Democrats from Republicans as it is Americans from Canadians (They got that leaf on their rucksack). Johnny come lately what do we do now, sell the mini van? I think I remember how to ride a bike. Maybe the French just misplaced that nuclear waist waste in the ocean that they got as a gift from their cute neighbors who can hide almost anything else. Team earth will save the day tomorrow with hot talk bubbles and a strong dislike for all things mean. Did I here Mexico here, maybe not their busy working, anyone else to the south have something to say, well speak up in English. We the people have a responsibility to our siblings for they know not better, not yet to kick our ass red and blue to the moon. Better, better yet, better you than me, better think twice if you think at all. Ticky tacky typing you, you, you world thinker, to change the world with a word, the word with a world or later a letter, how about the letter adre0wr35bZZswnop that’s secret code for wire tap this up your ass.
On The Beach
After nuclear war ravages Earth, Peck is torn between his duty to search for signs of life and his desire to find comfort in Gardner’s arms. (sorry a slip of the Ben) or We all live in a nuculer submarine If you get to much radiation stuff on you remember to change your cloths and take a long shower.
i think it sad.
when banishment occurs, i think the banisher owes the banished an explanation. and should announce the banishment to its audience.
though israelites made many efforts to describe me as an anti-semite, i always stood my ground. an anti-israeli i am. an anti-semite i am not.
i asked that little small d democrat markos why i was erased from his site. after years of posting. no answer. his webmaster told me the story.
doesn’t give me a warm and fuzzy feeling about democraps.
so, i moved my involvement to atrios. once again, many efforts made to describe me as an anti-semite. for years duncan repudiated those zionists who wanted me banned for my posture concerning israel.
and then i became an enemy of rohrschach[sic] [ i called him roarshit] who decided not to like my posts concerning haiti.
within hours, i was banned. as if i were a troll.
what is really shitty is that duncan refuses to answer me as to why.
and that is the problem with the left. as censorious as the right. in fact, worse.
though an anti-fascist for many years, i have discerned that the atrios, kos blog sites are not anti-fascist. they are fascist sites looking for a victory. ? uber alles.
what is it about haiti?
years ago i concluded that the usa worked to destroy haiti because haiti was its black equal. rascist amerika did not want that to be recognized.
let us recall how amerika became amerika.
there was this crazy bastid by the name of napoleon bonaparte. he owned haiti.
and then there was this black george washington, toussaint l’ouverture. who orchestrated a slave revolt. imagine, a black insurrection. and l’ouverture and his slaves defeated a napoleonic army of more than 20,000.
this is what caused napoleon’s sale to jefferson of the louisiana territories.
yet, in this evil empire, this story of a black insurrection is ignored. in fact, the usa has been energetic in killing the inheritors of that triumph for decades.
i think of ike and his creation of duvalier.
all the whiteys have worked assiduously to kill the story of l’ouverture.
it is as if no one is to know that black men and women were as successful at defeating the ancien regimes as the white men and women of the north amerikan continent.
fascinating. all of you.
where is fire dog lake, please? i went to camp in canada at age 11.
albert champion 136
“the usa and the canadian govts are killing black children, black women, black men. with malice aforethought”
Link please to back this up. As a Canadian I’d like to see some credible information, beyond your post, that any nation is committing genocide with death squads in Haiti.
shargash: Weren’t you wishing the Iranians would get nuclear weapons a number of posts back? Considering they are totalitarians, where would your desiring to arm them rank in your “Joseph-Stalin-Pol-Pot-Nazi” scale?
For everybody else: whatever you think of the Bush administration is actually irrelevant to morality to the answer of this question.
“tell me, please. why are all these countries so eager to kill haitians?”
Wouldn’t this be better pursued on your own site or in a thread with a more appropriate subject? People tend to view posts such as yours as hijacking a thread. I’m not %100 sure of that, I’m jusy saying that could be one interpretation. And this is intended to be a heads up. I don’t want you to think I’m cussin’ at ya. Just saying that it appears to me you have issues you’d like to talk about and I’m trying to suggest there might be better ways, that’s all.
Rigorous Intuition forums might be more to your liking.
The answer lies within that old reptillian brain of ours. It wants to kill differences, wipe ‘em out. It’s instinctual and goes back 4.3 billion years, give or take.
Speaking as a brit I endorse everything that is said here. Infact every country in the world would probably be in agreement 100 percent, being as they are very cross with Bush, at the same time having complete sympathy with all ordinary Americans who find themselves in the awful predicament of having to watch there country being flushed down the toilet.
Bush has truly become *the* world pariah.
Full disclosure here-I was born in Lansing, Michigan to Canadian parents, I live about 25 miles from the Peace Arch. One side says “Children of a common mother”, the other “Brethren Dwelling together in Unity.”
You know it’s ALWAYS your family that always ends up in the intervention….
Our canadian friend conveniently left out the part where Jeebus loves the US of A more than any other country.
So, that makes all the difference. Us, good; them, evil.
That should be simple enough for you to understand. And if you don’t get it, we’ll bomb ya til we knock some sense into your head.
it is what fascinates me. no one wants to know what is being done to haiti.
how we can posture about the invasion of iraq, yet ignore the invasion of this western hemisphere country, haiti.
and being told once again, when i bring this issue up, that i am hijacking a thread. ah, the energetic lefties..who do not want to hear it. who want to believe that there is some goodness.
and as for you canadian that is ignorant of your countries crimes vis a vis haiti, where are your ears and eyes? though i must admit as a subscriber to walrus that the sty goes virtually undisclosed.
unless you were a listener to pacifica. where the crimes of canada,amerika, france, brazil, chile in haiti get some airing.
as for you who want this issue removed, i think upon the puzzle of the left. here is the issue, i have been banished from sites for trying to discuss haiti – how it is that the amerikan left and right are more than willing to kill haitians, destroy a country.
once again, i am advised to sequester this story on my blog site that is virtually unknown. hmmmmm.
so i am persuaded that both the amerikan left and the amerikan right are equivalently eager to kill haitians.
again, i ask. WHY?
WHAT DID THE HAITIAN PEOPLE EVER DO TO YOU? AND WHY DO YOU WANT THAT ISSUE SUPPRESSED?
OH, PLEASE NOEN, HOW CAN ONE HIJACK AN OPEN THREAD.
ARE YOU RELATED TO ROARSHIT?
Well, speaking as a Norwegian, I gotta agree too – in fact, I think I’ll have to go with Sifu Tweety’s reaction: over on the Poor Man; namely – what the? Is your country on crack?
and bionic, don’t you pay attention to your own country?
how have you missed so much? and now you want me to explain it to you?
try to pay attention. on your own time.
i think that you will become surprised by how amerikan canada was/is/has been/will be.
follow the royal canadian mounted police, for instance. and their efforts to function as a secret police.
figure out how the candian sas goes undiscussed.
think upon the fact that your country is just another running dog.
#151: OK, yes, the US is screwing over Haiti. I learned about Toussaint L’Ouverture and revolt in Hispanola in HS, and how Jefferson wouldn’t touch the deal with a ten foot pole, because gaining their freedom involved black slaves killing white slaveowners. The US has run the place for its own purposes since at least the 1920s, and contintues to this day. I looked at your site and didn’t see any thing on how the Canucks are involved. Put up some content and I’ll read it.
I lied aluminum tubes and Mobil biological labs. A country of rain deer and fiords contemplating urban drug lingo and a north American suburb pronouncing their existence, it’s not a point invalid or untrue but a stance weak that carries a know it all air, infallibly removed by heritage not species with no control or responsibility for more than to spit on the lowly, the ignorant pig slime, the big retarded clod with his foot on innocent tortured and entitled brows. Couldn’t have said it better yourselves.
There’s a theme I’ve been seeing the last few days. It is in Ian’s posting and a lot of the comments. The Iranians are dangerous. Attacking their nuclear capability is an act of war. They will unleash 10 thousand suicide bombers in retribution. They will kill our Special Forces in ways contrary to the Geneva Convention (as if they care about International Law!!). All this is taken to be a self-evident argument for not stopping Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons.
The thing is a nuclear Iran is vastly more dangerous yet. With nuke’s it can directly or indirectly kill millions. The stated goal of the genocide of the Jews becomes realizable. At risk are innocent millions and there is only one chance at to prevent it. After Iran becomes a nuclear power, than it become exactly like North Korea (thousands if not millions murdered), the USSR (tens of millions murdered) and Red China (100+millions murdered?) The choice becomes nuclear exchange or containment.
And containment may be absolutely impossible with an ideology that worships death and the afterlife as its highest value. I think this lot of appeasers, deniers, sympathizers, and cowards on this site are wrong, so obviously blindly stupidly wrong, about Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and the Mullahs. They do not want life, they do not want prosperity, they do not want tolerance or anything else half the crowd here claims to value. They want their Islamic empire on Earth. In point of fact, they want death.
So Ian, I know damn well the Iranians have been very good at terrorism. That is why we must fight them.
OOOOOOOO, listen to the war drums echoing around FDLake. Each and every one of us, especially the “experts”, should get over ourselves and our own pet peeves about other countries.
As a Canadian who has been around for a while, I just want to point out that Canada has been in the US pocket since the last Prairie Conservative prime minister. Those of you with a sense of history will know who I am talking about, and what the slime ball did to my country.
You “Americans” want to beat up on your own country, — have at it. Don’t like your leaders? Do something about it. This is also a problem with Canada, and likely Mexico as well.
One thing I’d like to point out here is that no matter what we each feel about our own, and other’s, countries, it IS the corporations that run things. The US has problems with lobbyists, so does Canada, and likely every other country around the world.
Hell, that’s all for now. What’s the sense anyway?
They want their Islamic Empire on Earth…AND they want death?
They can’t have both. They can’t launch a nuclear strike against Israel and survive themselves. They can’t even nuke their holy city of Jerusalem.
If they nuke Tel Aviv, the Israelis will take out the top 20 Iranian cities. Where’s their Islamic Empire then?
ck says:
April 17th, 2006 at 6:12 pm
No, Mr Bush — the President of Iran is not the next Hitler — YOU ARE.
Exactly what I’ve been thinking.
If sane members of the Republican Party (of the few that remain), as well as any sane Democrats, don’t step up and stop the Bush administration RIGHT NOW, then those that allow this horror to befall both the United States and the world deserve to be damned for the remainder of the history of this country (however long or short that might be).
Those Republican warmongers and any Democratic appeasers will be cursed, with a special chapter in future U.S. history books outlining their war crimes against U.S. citizens and the world’s citizens.
And the children and grand-children of these insane Republicans and their Democratic appeasers will be spit upon in public for being the spawn of such great evil…sadly to say.
And the tragic thing is that it probably won’t be the U.S. that will launch the initial airstrikes against suspected Iranian nuclear sites…it will be the Israelis, similar to their taking out Saddam Hussein’s nuclear reactor in the early 1980s. Times have changed though.
But if the Israelis drop the first bombs on Iran in a month or so, the U.S. (or, that is, the BushCons) will gleefully join in during the second wave of attacks, thus starting a chain of events (like a nuclear reaction) that will be impossible to contain.
Either sane Republicans and sane Democrats, therefore, come to the aid of our country, and STOP BUSH NOW, or their names will live on in infamy beside Bush’s and all the other neo-con nuts responsible.
Thank you to those with kind words, for those kind words. This is my first post here, and it is a much larger soapbox than I’m used to having.
Having said the harsh words, let me say the good ones. I know there are many, many Americans who stand against what Bush has done, stand against the erosion of the Constitution, and look at the use of nukes as completely insane. I know that there is indeed a reality based community that hasn’t stepped through the mirror.
People sometimes ask me “why do you write so much about US politics when you’re a Canadian?” The implication, in many cases, is that it’s none of my business, since I’m not American.
My response is usually “I never write about Switzerland”.
What you guys do, matters so much to everyone in the world, and massively to us Canadians. We are your friends, and it is painful for us to watch what is happening. Yet, yet, I do have hope, because I do kow there are many who have fought hard against everything that happened.
But I am in the position of being very closely involved with US politics – I know this. To most outsiders it’s just “America”. And after 2004 there really was a shift amongst the citizenry of your allies from “Bush is an abberation” to “WTF, they reelected him!”
In any case, you have my best hopes and wishes and my admiration that you continue to fight the fight. Because it’s a fight not just for yourselves, but for everyone, and whatever the motives of those involved, I appreciate the fact that if you can win, you will save countries like Canada from some very hard times and ugly decisions.
#96-
Whether or not Canada is also culpable, it does not make what Ian wrote any less true!
Stick to the point of the post, and stop trying to spread the blame around.
I am not sure this post is fair to Israel.
According to Steve Clemons, political and military leaders in Israel are as wary of an attack on Iran as the military is here. In fact if anything Sharon may have been a holdout against such insanity (funny how that stroke took him out of the picture).
OTOH I’m open to evidence that there’s a rogue group of Israeli intelligence agents, working through AIPAC, collaborating with our own well-known group of nutcases to get it on in Iran. Ultimately they are not serving Israel’s long-term interests. They are on course to starting a firestorm in the ME.
I think that is the reason that Rove has decided to pick a fight with Iran. billmon has now put up Flight Forward II wherein he looks at the forces (mostly domestic political forces) that might make president Ahmadinejad want to seek a flucht nach vorne (or "flight forward") solution to his problems.
Of course Bush too could use something in the next few months that would be the "emotional equivalent" of 9/11. Convincing Ahmadinejad and his young and radical minions that they have nothing to lose in attacking the US would be a fine way to get it.
Some damage to our vast infrastructure, at least from the Republican viewpoint of Party Uber Alis, might seem a small price to pay. So here is a plan. They send agents into Iran and kill some important people or blow up some important site. Then Ahmadinejad, with or without the without the approval of other leaders, gives the green light to his suicidal minions to teach-Satan-a-lesson like they did with their Kobar Towers bombing.
This gives Bush his New 9/11 Mandate and lets him demonize any Democrats still not willing to bomb Iran. And of course that bombing gives Ahmadinejad his 9/11 moment. It works out fine for both Bush and Ahmadinejad: no militarily disastrous US/Iran war and no economically ruinous closure of the gulf shipping lanes. But each leader would have executed a successful political flucht nach vorne and entrenched themselves in power.
billmon closes with this pessimistic comment
Of course if both parties to a conflict want not a war but a 9/11 moment it is even more likely they will find a way to both get that.
The bushliar-criminal regime poses such a grave danger to humanity that it has become the obligation and responsibility of all of humanity to oppose them in every non-violent way possible. Just as reality-based US citizens have been far too complacent to the horrors and insidious intent of the US regime, so too has the world community has been stood by for the most part.
No matter how apoplectic the republioservativefundamentalist scream machine would get, many Americans would take notice if the world was demonstrably united against the threat posed by the republican takeover of the US government.
.
I wonder what #156 would label a regime that lies to invent false reasons to illegally invade a country killing 100,000 plus of its innocent civilians, ruining the social order and the infrstructure, and igniting a civil war. If that isn’t terrorism, or at least terrifying, then you should seek pyschological help.
.
Never thought I’d see anyone hoping for a military takeover of this government, but read it on a blog, and it makes sense. Bring the troops home and have at it. Deja vu, Russia, 1917.
I support Israel-common folk that is–in theory and yet I can hardly make heads or tails of it all; there’s so much darkness and getting darker I think. I will say in Israel’s defense that I think all allies probably spy on each other the mostest. I also think the big oil Saudi lobbyists have to be more powerful, esepcially among Republicans.
I strongly feel the “nukes” and Israel are not the real reason for BushCos global treachery and terrorism.
I feel if anyone has any love for the American people abroad, they would stand up against this regime that holds us and our values hostage. I mean, check the latest polls.
Excuse me I meant to say principles. “Values ” is a BushCo word. Browser problems again too.
Bring the troops home and have at it. Deja vu, Russia, 1917.
No comparisons to Lenin and the Czar. Please.
The smartest man on the planet that I know said a long time ago (like 20 years ago) — beware of China.
Angie, I would say, not “beware of China.” I would say gain a better understanding of the history & intentions. It’s very hard for people to grasp its diversity. Maybe this is because of the “One China, one people” front.
All governments are corrupt power structures designed to keep their power and suppress awareness. Whatever must be done to further that end is acceptable. Trust none of them.
BTW. That comes from the smartest, most brilliant and honest person I know–who happens to be Chinese.
The question is more complicated than just totalitarianism. China is totalitarian and has had nukes for decades. What is significant is the willingness to use military force purely to advance a country’s perceived interests. China certainly has done some reprehensible things, particularly in Tibet. And yet they really aren’t a threat to world peace, at least not at this point.
What has Iran done? The hostage taking in the 70s was reprehensible, but very few people died in that. They support a terrorist organization in Lebanon, but is that much different than our support of the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan?
Iran’s government are not nice people and, like the Chinese, they do some reprehensible things. However, they don’t attack other countries, and they are not engaged in any genocide that I am aware of, which puts them somewhat above the Chinese in my book. Their president, who has little real power, has made some outrageous statements/threats against Israel. But where is the evidence of intent to do anything? Moreover, if we don’t “prop up” the Mullahs with our belligerence, I think it is likely Iran will change governments in a few years, maybe a few decades.
I don’t really want Iran to have nukes. However, if they had nukes, it would probably act as a deterrent against US aggression. And I’m beginning to think that US aggression is likely to have worse consequences for the world than Iran’s having nukes.
However, the best thing would be for us to back off on the warmongering, convince Iran that we aren’t a threat to them, and work with Iran to get them to confine their nuclear activities to peaceful uses. The key to keep Iran from developing nukes is to make them believe they do not need nukes. Attacking them will have the opposite effect.
Glenn wrote the following over at Unclaimed Territory:
That sums it up much better than my snarky raving. :-)
Shargash, the Cultural Revolution & the famine and the Mao chapter are a very painful chapter especially for the now deceased old man Deng and protegees. It makes me positively squeamish that you compare Iran and China. Yes, terrible policies that took hold many years ago are still in place, re: Tibet. What threatens most is decentralization. It’s touch and go & China has had mutually bad relations with neighbors. Please let’s not be provoked by Iran-bashers to bash China. It’s not N. Korea.
Thanks, Ian for telling it like it is!
Bush wants to save our country by destroying it–just like Vietnam!
Whoopee we’re all gonna die.
Sigh, Ian, can you adopt my family? I think we’d like Canada. It’s sure lookin’ sane right now.
mui– I understand and respect your distinction. I did not mean to make them into a boogeyman at all. What my respected teacher meant was very much what you say, but also that America often does not appreciate just what is happening in other societies and the capabilities of those peoples who have strong work ethics, enormous populations, and the very same desires to aquire security, prosperity and the continuation of their culture that we do. We are in a very different geographic location than China or India or Russia or Pakistan and our mucking about in such close proximity to them cannot be seen as non threatening.
Ian, you got that one square on the head! (And said most of what I’ve been thinking for the last couple of years. But I have Canadians on my family tree.)
Testify, brother. Bloody Yanks should get more of this. Enough of it might even generate some sanity and humility. Well, a boy can dream.
Angie, I understand now & BushCo is threatening. It is painful to watch. Almost all Chinese are survivers of the most dreadful history you can’t imagine, including some fo the leadership. I just wish governments would cut us all a break.
Worse yet, mui– these are ancient cultures we are mucking with– we are the young upstarts. We stole the land of the Native Americans and almost destroyed them. I truly believe that our empire is failing. Coincidentally, this afternoon on cspan1:
04:00 PM EDT
2:00 (est.) LIVE
Forum
China’s Emerging Influence in East Asia
Sasakawa Peace Foundation USA
Ricky Carandang , ABS-CBN News Channel, Philippines
Bambang Harymurti , Tempo Weekly News Magazine Indonesia
The beginning and end of this live program may be earlier or later than the scheduled time
And Hu Jintao is here in the US.
And this is what chimpy has to say about his meeting with President Hu Jintao:
President George W. Bush said on Tuesday he will raise the issue of Iran’s nuclear ambitions with China’s President Hu Jintao later this week and refused to rule out nuclear retaliation if diplomatic efforts fail.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..00648.html
Will try and catch it. It’s very painful we’ve dropped cultural diplomacy for Dicks with guns. We have to fight the incapacitation & hopelessness.
I will not call you an anti-semite, I do not think that you are, but your views are incredibly anti-Israel. No offense, but who the f are you to say “israel is not Your ally?”
Ian
“But I am in the position of being very closely involved with US politics – I know this. To most outsiders it’s just “Americaâ€. And after 2004 there really was a shift amongst the citizenry of your allies from “Bush is an aberration†to “WTF, they reelected him!â€
It is the simplicity and many other blanket statements by Ian that bother me. How he a Canadian is the voice of the world to dictate world sentiment from all places Canada. Canada has no more clear view of a world opinion than any of us and really so little difference culturally or politically. As I travel the planet a lot I rarely come across “WTF they re elected him†and if I do it comes out of the mouth of some privileged patriot completely ill informed of their homeland compliance and assistance in global crime the U.S. is so well known for. I hate being in a position to point that out. The U.S. is a conglomerate of many foreign interest holdings as well as our own, we can no longer bump about our sty’s than they can their castles without global effect. I don’t believe in them or us or that most Iranians love their dictator any more than we love ours. It is not about my responsibility alone, if it was we wouldn’t be here, we are all in this together as any war anywhere effects us all. Part of feeling powerless in the U.S. is absolutely true, there are great forces working against us and many invested here and I have some doubt that all that responsibility and world power lies in the voting finger of Podunk.
I agree with everything in the post. I’m a Canadian and could not have said it better myself.
We have until November friends. If Bush intends to “do” Iran, he needs to do it before then. I personally believe he will. It’s in the PNAC playbook. Those who say it won’t happen are probably the same people who gave Bush the benefit of the doubt on Iraq. They were wrong.
Nice post Ian. Now… can you get it broadcast on FOX news? Unfortunately, the reason so many Americans are following this fool President to WWIII is because the Propaganda Artists in the corporate media are hard at work spreading disinfomation and supporting this criminal. Until the public airwaves are returned to the public I fear America will continue down this dark path.
“As I travel the planet a lot I rarely come across “WTF they re elected himâ€
Ummmm which planet would that be precisely and what’s the weather like there?
snark,
In the past five years that would be this planet. Central and South America, Africa, Europe, South East Asia. The only Snark was from some rich Australians in Vietnam and one weathy Belgium man, Not a single WTF even in Paris. How about you?
I’m talking about the separation of the U.S. Government and the way a U.S. citizen is received outside the U.S. is generally not with malice except of coarse a few posted here. I am in no way suggesting that I agree with the actions of the U.S. Government and from my experiences other planet people do not impose this on me either. Most planetiers seem to realize that the problem is or will be or has been global and historic.
I think this political posturing by Republicans is nothing more than something they could possibly use to frame Democrats as wimps during this election year.
The Republicans are fishing.
They’re testing the waters.
They’re wetting their finger in their mouth, then holding it up to the wind to see which direction public opinion is blowing.
They’ve nothing to run on this election cycle. They’ve exploited and burned up all the usual Republican arguments about non-arguments. No one cares about gay marriage anymore. No one cares about abortion anymore. No one cares about taxes anymore.
They’re fishing.
They’re trying to find something to hold the public’s attention so they can campaign on it.
If public attention isn’t held by it, it will dissolve away and no longer exist as an issue. Gay marriage? Gone…not an issue. Abortion? Gone…not an issue.
It’s the typical Republican platform of running on whatever happens to be dripping from the mouths of Ma and Pa Christian…and right now they’re trying to whip up their appetite…and whet the imagination and paranoia of their base living in Jesusland. If it’s not this issue, it’ll be something else…but mark my words, it will be something that the “base” is passionate about…and you’ll recognize that their passionate about it when they’re preaching about it during their Sunday sermons.
I wasn’t bashing China. I was pointing out that despite some reprehensible actions, China is an example of an authoritarian state with nukes that is not a threat to world peace.
It is not at all clear to me that Iran, with or without nukes, is a threat to world peace. Now, if I could wave a wand, I would have a nuclear-free Iran and China. But if I could wave a wand, I’d have a nuclear free world, US included.
BTW, I’m not convinced North Korea is as nuts as the administration says. NK is, at the least, very clever. They have wrapped Bush Co around their little finger. If they are crazy, they are crazy like a fox and far more sophisticated that the current US government.
Angie thanks for the info.:)
Shargash, Dear leaders of N. Korea are crazy. We should be focusing on helping them solve famine problems, massaging relations between S. and North and helping Japan get back kidnapped women, etc. Not provoking this guns for butter BS & yet another cold war siege mentality with skirmishes and tension on every border.
We should also not be provoked into Israel-bashing because of the Iran-bashing.
I’d personally like to see more discussion of the Pakistan, India & Saudi parts of the puzzle.
i am puzzled. a canadian that doesn’t know of his country’s involvement in the defenestration of jean bertrand aristide.
doesn’t he read his nation’s newspapers?
i must admit, that to know this history of haiti, you must work for it. it is a sequestered history.
i wonder why.
but canada was a partner in the coup.
and of course canada was a partner to the sanctions that were imposed on haiti, that have killed haiti. to the extent that you would have to label them genocidal.
much as the sanctions that bushit1 and clinton1[unfortunately there may be a clinton2] that killed thousands of iraqis the canadians also promoted. making canada sort of a silent murderer. some of us know about canada’s genocidal proclivities. some, apparently, want to pretend that they don’t recall. a most clintonesque perspective: i never agreed to murder these black folks, these iraqis…it just happened.
yeah, ask maddy albright. she has said that the regime that she represented thought it quite ok.
nuremberg time? i like the idea of maddy with a noose around her neck. swinging. next to bill.
next to george1&2.
the grand guignol.
you might want to tune in here….
http://www.freehaiti.net/
I just wanted to confirm that in my opinion this post represents the point of view of a large majority of educated Canadians with the sole exception of the ‘Canada should have nukes’ remark. There would be virtually no support for this. It would have been very easy to go down that path in 1946. Method, means and opportunity all existed in large measure. Mackenzie King made a conscious decision not to do it. Even allowing ‘borrowed’ warheads into the country in the 1960s provoked significant opposition.
I don’t think that it overstates the direness of the current situation to say that if, as seems certain now, the USA attacks Iran, it will be friendless for a good long time. This must be stopped in the next 2 or 3 weeks. There is little time left. Wayne Madsen also seems to think that there will be four full carrier task forces in the China Sea next August. Perhaps for a little son et lumiere in North Korea? Who in the Rest of the World would be surprised? Who in the Rest of the World would now believe assurances to the contrary? For that matter, who is left in the Rest of the World who believes a single thing this wretched excuse for a government says about anything?
Canada, you’ve got oil, you’re next.
(/snark)
Canada does not seem to be much of a player in these statistics I grabbed quick off the net, at the same time we care how their public chimes in. It is clear why the UK pals up. I suppose all investors take interest in their investments, don’t we all. At this time I’m not convinced by the hysteria of either side of the Iran issue and further I am not convinced that the U.S. no matter how many drums are beating or tricks of the administration has the stomach, resources, support and ability to take on Iran. To the contrary, the attacks of Afghanistan and Iraq in no way show sufficient strength to take on Iran alone, even the propped up nuke idea. There maybe something else in play and hysteria and friendship in Canada or Ireland for that matter may not be the crux.
Country
Warheads
United States
10,455
Russia
8,400
China
400
France
350
Israel*
250
United Kingdom
200
India**
65
Pakistan**
40
North Korea***
8
TOTAL
20,168
Oil 1-10 in reserves
Saudi Arabia
Iraq
Kuwait
United Arab Emirates
Iran
Venezuela
Russia
Mexico
Libya
US
Foreign investments in U.S.
. Six European countries — France, Germany, Luxembourg (a financial center), the Netherlands, Switzerland and the UK – each hold U.S. investments worth over $100 billion dollars.
. The UK’s $252 billion investment represents almost a fourth of total European investment in the United States.
. Japan accounts for 80% of investment from the Asia-Pacific region, reaching around $177 billion.
. Chinese direct investment in the U.S. is minimal, and does not register on the Department of Commerce data release. That should change with the 2005 Lenovo acquisition of IBM’s Personal Computing Division. Hong Kong investment in the U.S. totals $1.8 billion.
. Taiwan investment in the U.S. was about $3.2 billion in 2004.
. Israel is the largest investor from the Middle East, with some $4.1 billion in investments. Kuwait follows with $1.2 billion.
. FDI from South America in the U.S. was greatest from Panama, with $11 billion in U.S. investments, probably because Panama is a financial hub.
Mexico is the second largest Latin American investor, with some $7.9 billion invested. Venezuela is third, with $5.5 billion. Brazil accounts for some $1.3 billion.
Chinese direct investment in the U.S. is minimal, and does not register on the Department of Commerce data release. That should change with the 2005 Lenovo acquisition of IBM’s Personal Computing Division. Hong Kong investment in the U.S. totals $1.8 billion.
ppp, I for some personal reason, would like to consider HongKong and China Mainland totally distinct entities.
mui, thanks, http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2006/63553.htm
I think they are listed seperate.
Why is our population so apathetic? With this attitude, it is no wonder that Bush feels that he is “the annoited” one! Where is the Democratic leadership? Is it time for another political party?
Why is our population so apathetic? With this attitude, it is no wonder that Bush feels that he is “the annoited” one! Where is the Democratic leadership? Is it time for another political party?
For me personally, I’m sick of waiting for the Democrats to do something worthwhile to stop the Republicans. I’m tired of being on a losing team with a bunch of losers. I’ve decided to start supporting Bush and all his craziness. I can’t wait to see that big fuckin’ mushroom cloud over Iran. We owe them for the hostage thing 27 years ago, right?
To hell with Iran. Who gives a shit what happens to them! They’ve been a country of religious extremism and violence for years and years. The problems in the Middle East will never go away unless we kill ‘em all and start over.
Afganistan, Iraq, Iran, Syria… fuck ‘em. Let them all perish in a big fucking mushroom cloud.