
Team Libby’s Reply Memorandum is an intricate piece of legal wrangling that tries to accomplish a couple of things: (1) Get facts out to both the Court and, I would argue, into the public domain that rebut what Fitz’s last filing managed to stir up with regard to Libby’s role in disseminating cherry-picked favorable intelligence information to friendly reporters as pushback to the Administration critic, Joe Wilson, in an Administration ass-saving maneuver once questions regarding the Iraq War started being raised; and (2) Make some more specific arguments as to why a fishing expedition through the government’s evidentiary files on the whole of th case, including the continuing investigation and potential charges outside the current Libby indictment, is not only proper but necessary for the defense of Scooter Libby.
Huge thanks to Jeralyn for hosting the PDF of this latest Libby filing, so everyone can take a read if they like.
First things first: in terms of legal writing, this is a much tighter document than their previous filing, and to my mind more persuasively written in terms of legal arguments. Doesn’t mean they will win any of them, but this particular filing is a vast improvement from the stilted, archaic argument langauge of the last Team Libby filing. And I just wanted to note that for the stylistic, lawyering record.
That being said, let’s take a walk through the document, shall we? (And for consistency’s sake, I’m using the PDF document numbering when I talk about page numbers, not the numbers on the document itself. I’m assuming most folks will be referencing the document via the online link, and I thought that numbering system would be easier for everyone.)
On pages 4 through 6, Team Libby argues for a more expansive reading of Rule 16 discovery than what Fitz argued in his last response filing. They specifically single out Marc Grossman as an example of why the defense is entitled to more substantial discovery.
What this comes down to between Team Libby and Team Fitz is a difference in perspective in terms of legal interpretation. The government’s interest is actually two-fold in this: Fitz is required to turn over any and all exculpatory material relating to the charges in Libby’s indictment, with or without any more expansive reading of the discovery rules. So that is already a duty that the government has up front. Beyond that, though, Fitz has an ongoing investigation on top of this current prosecution, so he is trying on the one hand to allow for a fair trial for Libby and for adequate discovery while at the same time keeping investigative materials that might tip his hand in the still-ongoing investigation a secret for now.
Frankly, this is a tough call for the judge, and I’m awfully glad that i don’t have to be the one drawing the line through what is or is not discoverable in this. I think there are valid arguments on both sides, and the judge is going to have to go piece by piece through the bits of evidence, I think, in order to make a determination. This is likely to take some time — which may be Team Libby’s ultimate intent in pressing this issue so strenuously.
On page 6, Team Libby argues that they want to tell "the full story" on how the government responded to Amb. Wilson — and how his wife was a tangential issue in the whole of the response. (Never mind that both Libby and Rove specifically addressed her to reporters, I suppose, but Team Libby conveniently downplays this issue. Or that disclosure of any iffy information about the CIA is to be checked out for classification and that disclosure is only to be done on a need-to-know basis — and not just blabbed around town on the media cocktail weenie circuit. But maybe I’m just being an SF-312 stickler.)
They then get into what I think is their strongest argument with regard to Jencks Act materials versus true discoverable issues in the case. Witness statements and other contemporaneous documentary evidence are generally discoverable if and when there is a showing that it is particularly material and relevent to the charges in the indictment andis necessary for preparation of an adequate defense.
The best description that I have found on Jencks Act issues for discovery comes from this great online resource for Hawaii courts:
The "Jencks Act" governs the production or discovery, in federal criminal trials, of written or recorded statements made to government agents by government witnesses. Subdivision (e)(1) statements are those "signed or otherwise adopted or approved" by a witness. Subdivision (e)(2) statements, although not signed or approved by the witness, are "substantially verbatim" written or recorded accounts of oral statements made "contemporaneously with the making" of the oral statements. The language of subdivisions (e)(1) and (e)(2) is virtually the same as that of paragraph (1)(B) and (C) of the present rule. The purpose of subdivisions (e)(1) and (e)(2) of the Jencks Act, according to the Supreme Court in Palermo v. United States, 360 U.S. 343, 349-52 (1959), is to define the "most trustworthy class of statements" of witnesses to be turned over to the defense for impeachment purposes. Regarding the requirement that (e)(2) subdivision statements be "substantially verbatim," the court said: "It is clear that Congress was concerned that only those statements which could properly be called the witness’ own words should be made available" under the Act. Since the purpose of Congress in writing subdivision (e) of the Jencks Act was similar to the legislative intent in adopting paragraph (1)(B) and (C) of the present rule, the Palermo case and other cases construing the Jencks Act, e.g., Williams v. United States, 338 F.2d 286 (D.C. Cir. 1964), will be helpful in defining the parameters of this rule.
The trustworthiness of statements defined in paragraph (1)(A), (B), and (C) is further assured by the requirement that the witness-declarant be "subject to cross-examination concerning the subject matter of the statement." The situation envisioned is one where the witness has testified about an event and his prior written statement also describes that event but is inconsistent with his testimony. Since the witness can be cross-examined about the event and the statement, the trier of fact is free to credit his present testimony or his prior statement in determining where the truth lies. Because the witness is subject to cross-examination, the substantive use of his prior inconsistent statements does not infringe the sixth amendment confrontation rights of accused in criminal cases, see California v. Green, 399 U.S. 149 (1970).
Essentially, what the judge is going to have to do is go through each witness statement at issue and make a determination on materiality and relevance — and whether or not it falls within Jencks Act concerns. Again, this could take a while, if the judge determines this is the necessary step. Libby doesn’t get to just go fishing through the entire government files — but neither does Fitz get to limit discovery that would be useful in the preparation of Libby’s defense. It’s a tough call — and one that will likely have to be made on a witness by witness, document by document basis. Which is to say, there is a long, hard document slog for some legal folks that is likely ahead in this.
On page 9, Team Libby reveals that they may call Joe Wilson as a "hostile witness." This is a specific legal term of art which allows for Libby’s lawyers to call Wilson and question him as if he were being cross-examined. This is something you never really want to do as an attorney — unless, of course, your point is to put pressure on a witness you think might fold. I think that’s a pretty big gamble with Joe Wilson.
On page 11, Team Libby gives a shout out to George and Dick in this form:
The defense has the right to argue at trial that Mr. libby’s actions with respect to the NIE were authorized at the highest levels of the Executive Branch, and would be entitled to bolster such arguments with documents and testimony.
Is it me, or does that say "I’m gonna subpoena your ass unless I see a big, fat pardon."?
Pages 13 through 15 walk through the arguments on discovery — using the Safavian case ruling as a point in their favor in terms of discoverability of requested documents that may corroborate Libby’s testimony or bolster his defense. The interesting part here for me was the zeroing in on Grossman, Fleischer and Rove. That could get very interesting, couldn’t it?
Pages 19 through 23 concentrate on several issues that all point to motivations for lying — including that Libby wants to argue his case by making points about the bureaucratic infighting between the State Department, the CIA and the White House (which just brings up that whole cherry-picked intel to bolster the WH position, and essentially lying to the public by not revealing all of the critical evidence as well — another shot across the Dick and George bow).
There was a VERY interesting bit on p. 20:
…contemporaneous documents reflect the points that Mr. Libby was to make to reporters, and these documents do not include any information about Wilson’s wife. (emphasis by Team Libby — no doubt a Babs Comstock addition as a Cliff’s Notes to the press corps)
This suggests to me that Libby had written talking points about what to say to Judy Miller and other reporters. Well, isn’t that interesting? Who drew these up? Cheney? Rove? The members of the WHIG? Libby himself? Who gave them to Libby? So many intriguing questions spring to mind on that single little new tidbit, don’t they?
Finally, there is an argument centered around page 26 which discusses the need for discovery of the CIA referral documents. Team Libby changes its focus once again, this time to a perceived need to potentially cross-examine George Tenet as to his potential biases and the need for this referral document to ascertain whether or not he has some bias.
All in all, an interesting read — some changes in focus and a narrowing of scope in terms of what Team Libby is willing to call acceptable for discovery. (From everything Fitz could possibly gets his hands on down to only those relevent things that Fitz actually has in his possession at this point.) The judge is likely to narrow this down even further, with a ruling that splits the difference between both sides — which is guaranteed to make neither side happy. I don’t think Team Libby will win their full argument on this — but they might get some expanded discovery out of this. And really, that’s better than nothing.
But we learn that Libby had a primer document on exactly what to say. And that mystery in and of itself is worth the price of admission in this reading.
Related posts:
- Cheney’s Betrayal Made an IIPA Charge for Libby Possible
- BREAKING: Stunning al-Haramain Filing Shames Obama; Shows Duplicity of Officials
- The Bush Fairy Tale on the Libby Pardon
- John Dean: Is Boies/Olson’s Federal Anti-Prop 8 Filing A Risk?
- Dick Cheney, Scooter Libby, and the “Unremarkable” Meat Grinder





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FFFFFIIIIIITTTTTTZZZZZ….
Is it me, or does that say “I’m gonna subpoena your ass unless I see a big, fat pardon”?
No, it’s not just you.
fitzy
On page 11, Team Libby gives a shout out to George and Dick in this form:
The defense has the right to argue at trial that Mr. libby’s actions with respect to the NIE were authorized at the highest levels of the Executive Branch, and would be entitled to bolster such arguments with documents and testimony.
Is it me, or does that say “I’m gonna subpoena your ass unless I see a big, fat pardon.”?
*****
So, if they cite “Executive Privilege” and refuse, does that neuter the case against Libby?
The idea of calling Joe Wilson as a hostile witness baffles me. I can’t imagine him folding and in any case, what could they pressure him to fold about? Obviously we don’t have all the info team Libby has, but it is hard to imagine any kind of advantage coming from this.
After being EPU’d last night and this morning – here’s a cut and paste. *G*
OT- Libby. Some posts revisited. Last night anon mentioned what I thought was the most interesting part of the interesting parts in the Libby filing.
anon says:
April 12th, 2006 at 10:45 pm
Libby implies Bush is a liar …
‘Based on the government’s articulated motive theory, the defense is also entitled to investigate the Administration’s response to the leak, such as any alleged threats by the President to fire officials who were involved. For example, if documents indicate that notwithstanding the President’s public statements about the leak investigation, Mr. Libby had no reason to fear losing his job, the defense is entitled to production of such documents
Now, a defense lawyer is going to argue in the alternative (it didn’t happen, if it did happen, it wasn’t me, if it was me, I had a good reason, if I didn’t have a good reason, I may have been crazy, …) but this was a pretty interesting assertion to spell out IMO.
Lhp said, Gave a very quick skim and this all off the cuff, but did you notice how much they contracted their discovery demand? In the “compromise†section of the brief, they basically gut their original demand.
Later on they argue that they are really entitled to the whole of their original demand, but any judges chambers is going to seize on an admission or waiver like that and run with it. Any judge with half a brain avoids making a decision when the parties don’t force it. So, if one side concedes something, you grab it and go (unless they don’t have the standing to concede or some other anomaly).
That struck me last night as well. I think it goes to the context of the alignment issue. Procedurally, they are correct on how the alignment should be addressed. I wondered at the time of the Memorandum opinion about the “free flow†language that seemed to be going by without comment (I am just not patient enuf!) and I thought it might mean the various offices really were more on board with the Prosecutor, bc alignment does have an affect on production duties/responsibilities.
IMO, Fitzgerald raised it where he did as a heads up to the judge and Team Libby that he was going to be going more into this if and as required now that he had the President’s office (and the status of subordinate DOJ officers) floating out there. I’m positive Fitzgerald knew they would raise the procedural issue and Walton seems like he would “by the book†it, if it weren’t for that lovely compromise offer tucked in the Reply.
Team Libby could have done two things. Pitched a fit (procedurally incorrect plus they are too aligned and Judge already ruled and exception should have been taken and ….)
or do what they did – go through the motions (basically a sentence on the procedural issue) but offer a compromise that the judge will have a hard time turning down and that keeps a record from developing, this early on, as to just why the other offices are not, actually, aligned with the Prosecutor. Once “too much†is out on that front, I think the President has less reason for pardon.
The compromise offered also, imo, speeds up Team Libby’s access to the Rove et al info that the judge is willing to let them have and which could be tied up for quite a bit longer as they duke it out over alignment. They are chomping to get to “show me yours†and it really seems they are angling for WH attention all through the filing. All jmo, but the alignment bits and pieces have caught my interest since the original ruling.
I got a kick, too, out of the Wells sealed declaration. Poor Ari – they mention the Africa trip and file a sealed declaration.
I also enjoy watching Safavian discovery rulings being trotted into Walton’s court (second time now – first time he didn’t seem very swayed). I can just see the Supreme Court cases now – US v. Cheney, citing to US v. Rove; US v. Rove citing to US v. Libby, US v. Libby citing to US v. Safavian … OK, I can’t really see it, but it was fun to pretend I could.
But Libby is not charged for his “actions with respect to the NIE.” And wasn’t “authorized at the highest levels” to lie to the FBI and GJ.
Hey, IANAL, but if I were the judge, I would pitch this shit out.
“On page 11, Team Libby gives a shout out to George and Dick in this form:
The defense has the right to argue at trial that Mr. libby’s actions with respect to the NIE were authorized at the highest levels of the Executive Branch, and would be entitled to bolster such arguments with documents and testimony.”
I agree it’s a signal. But (speaking as a non-lawyer) it also seems frivolous. Whether or not Libby was “authorized at the highest levels of the Executive Branch” is NOT RELEVANT to whether he lied his ass off to FBI investigators and to Fitz’s GJ. Won’t Fitz and/or the judge so indicate?
sonate -
Good point. Agreed. It’s a red herring.
IANAL either, and this whole series of threads has been wonderful for teaching me more about how the legal system works.
For me, I keep coming back to the “four corners of the indictment” – perjury. If Fitz has the goods on Libby’s misstatements to the grand jury, no justification based on “secret declassification” will do much good. Libby’s not charged with intelligence crimes (at least not yet), but declining to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. That ought to simplify the judge’s discernment process about what is and is not discoverable.
All this leads me to think that the Team Libby filings are aimed at something else, or should I say someone else. They’ve got some idea of what charges Fitz is looking at, and who he’s going after. What I can’t tell is whether they are tying to head him off, or get the best deal they can for themselves once he gets there.
Libby’s talking points? We already know that Libby went to Addington – and to some extent put him in the loop – perhaps Addington’s expertise was extended to the talking points? And again for all of us, if it’s shown Libby had a history of being a leaker, wouldn’t he keep the same team on, such as Addington, to run leaks by? Makes all the more sense as Addington became Libby’s successor.
I wonder if the new White House chef has lots of tasty recipes for red herring? Seems to often show up on the menu, as it were…
The problem with criminals in general is that they don’t think they’ll get caught. These arrogant BushCo pukes planned for effectively covering their tracks about as well as they planned for effectively managing post-invasion Iraq.
Totally OT (you all deserve a break)
Happy Easter!
heehee…
~
I’m no lawyer, and not even much of a plameologist, but it seems like part of Libby’s defense is trying to justify why he did what he did. There’s quite the focus on the response to Wilson, and how Plame was a small part, yadda yadda yadda.
What I don’t see about this, though, is how it goes to the specific charges filed against Libby. He obstructed Fitzgerald’s investigation, and that’s why he’s in court. The issue of revealing a CIA NOC’s identity and destroying covert assets is not yet even on the docket.
If I’ve got this right, what’s the Libby defense all about? Is he trying to play to public opinion, thinking if he can get people to think what he did is no big deal they’ll forgive the lying to prosecutors? Would that matter? Martha Stewart didn’t escape even though she lied about something she didn’t do. Or is the Libby defense strategy just to muddy the issue as much as possible and hope to slip out through the muck?
Oh come on, you missed a potential pun in the title.
“New Libby Filing — A Brief Analysis”
I think the “calling Joe” is all just to flesh out having a “reason” to see what the Prosecutor has about the trip. Joe Wilson can’t give much that goes to any of the underlying charges, and he can’t make Libby seem more sympathetic, but having a good reason to go through what is in the Prosecutor’s files on the trip could be pretty helpful for the WH crew right now.
IMO, a couple of the big themes were pushing the WH, and trying to speed up access to non-Libby info in the Prosecutor’s files.
The Prosecution’s obligations re: exculpatory info are a part of the alignment issue, IMO. For example, if Office of the President is deemed aligned, the Prosecutor has an affirmative obligation to turn over things like, oh, say, a classifed Exec Order authorizing Libby to do stuff, or maybe authorizing lots of people to do many things vis a vis, oh, say covert activities to promote the war etc. (tinfoil). But, given the subordinate status of DOJ and FBI to the Exec office, they don’t really have access to and control over such info.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
From below thread, angie, Raw StoryMEK link. There is a lot floating around about how Rumsfeld wanted to use MEK from the beginning. Also, how much he wants to cut out traditional (once upon a time) independent intelligence (like CIA) and replace/utilize intelligence operations that report directly to him militarily and bc of the command chain and funding/structure can be more easily propagandized to support the pre-agreed upon conclusions. Not that he wasn’t very successful already on this front, even with the CIA>
The only thing I would question in the Raw Story report is how much he is taking “direction” from Cheney, as opposed to just cabaling around with him. IMO, Rumsfeld holds his own on the belly butting encounters and Cheney was his protege in younger years, as opposed to vice versa.
I am almost wondering about how accidental the intelligence disaser in 2004 really was, the one that resulted in CIA losing its Iranian assets. That’s how much faith I’m losing.
And the Afghanistan story – which there was a thread about I think, is really troubling. Soldiers names, addresses, personal info, combat training, generals soc sec numbers, etc. WOW. I can’t believe this isn’t getting more press, but there is just an overload.
Being from CA, I suppose I missed the pun in the title because I’m from the land of Boxer . . .
Sonate and BobbyG have a point, but invariably even judges get caught up in the “look at the fuzzy monkey” defense strategy sometimes. I like law to be very basic. If you have a crime, prove the elements. A then B then C… It’s how good defense attorneys beat charges at prelims.
Fitz is getting caught up in the political game between Scooter, Shrub, Hadley and Unca Dick. And there’s no way for him to get out except offer Scooter total immunity.
Look, Bush is taking a beating on this poll wise. The longer this story rears its ugly head the longer he loses his base and the GOP gets weaker, too. Granting a pardon and short circuiting it under the guise of national security is the best bet they have unless they outright shoot Libby. He’s begging for a pardon from what I read between the lines. The problem is Bush is too dumb to know what to do next and Rove too egotistical to admit failure and resign with a pardon attached to his ass. Of course, I also wouldn’t trust Cheney in this stuff not throw Bush and Rove under a bus thru Libby. How the hell can we trust these guys to run the country when they can’t even trust each other and are always playing CYA?
Fitz should just offer Libby immunity and see what pops.
If by some miracle they decide testimony from Bush or Cheney is relevant, I doubt the executive priviledge argument will fly. Clinton was forced to testify, but perhaps more relevant is the memory of a senile old Reagan on the stand for Iran-Contra.
Sonate – I don’t think the issue is a complicated if you look at it this way. Say your father dies, his will appoints an Executor, and you are supposed to inherit. Well, the will gives the Executor the “legal” right to do things with the assets of the estate. No question about that – he/she has legal title while assets are in the Estate.
So – does that mean that it is “fine” (to use Sustein’s language) for the Executor to take money and go on a trip to Cancun? Of course not – that is a breach of his duty to you. The President’s power over classified info is pretty much the same as an Executor’s power over assets in the Estate. He is given broad power to do things, but is supposed to be doing them for the benefit of Estate and beneficiaries (like, say, putting money in an interest bearing account pending distribution, selling non-productive assets, hiring consultants as needed, etc.)
If he takes the power and assets “given” to him and uses them for personal benefit – just like the Executor of an Estate waltzing off with assets, he’s broken the law. The difference being, you can’t do much while the President is a sitting President. Grounds for him to not be a sitting President? Yep – just as much as if he were thieving from an Estate while he was sitting President or abusing insider information etc.
Wouldn’t calling Wilson as a hostile witness give the rightwing spin machine’s ridiculous argument that Wilson has lied and may have committed a crime some cosmetic viability? A little life-preserver for the wingnut meme that that they’ve been pushing from the time he wrote his NYT piece?
Politics is half the battle here and the more they undercut Wilson’s credibility in the public arena the better the “leakers” look.
The implicit demand for a pardon is very interesting imo. Either way, the WH seems to be backed up against a wall.
If the WH doesn’t pardon Libby, it seems that all their dirty laundry with regard to this case could be hauled into the public domain via a trial.
Yet, if Libby is pardoned, wouldn’t the next step be some sort of congressional hearing? I am thinking that the main reason the Dems have not been demanding this is due to the way the criminal cases against the Iran-Contra players were gutted because so many were granted immunity, which limited the Special Counsel’s ability to use much of the sworn testimony from those hearings? But if Libby is pardoned, what would prevent the Congress (even better if they manage to re-gain a majority in one of the chambers) from opening their own investigation and compelling ALL of them to testify – right up to the VP?
Am I way off base here?
“If by some miracle they decide testimony from Bush or Cheney is relevant, I doubt the executive priviledge argument will fly. Clinton was forced to testify…”
That was then, this is now. Would THIS Supreme Court force Bush and his boss to testify, or back off in the putative name of “national security?” Giving Libby an out sans pardon.
If anyone has the stomach to listen, NPR’s TOTN is covering Libby-Gate and DeClassification-Gate today.
Sonate 8 – I agree it’s a signal. But (speaking as a non-lawyer) it also seems frivolous. Whether or not Libby was “authorized at the highest levels of the Executive Branch†is NOT RELEVANT to whether he lied his ass off to FBI investigators and to Fitz’s GJ. Won’t Fitz and/or the judge so indicate?
Fitzgerald is saying that the disclosure of the NIE info will come up at trial as a necessary incident to explaining why LIbby was meeting with Miller when he also mentioned Plame. Not that he will be charging Libby for it or even saying that he did something wrong, but that it is a part of the meeting that will be asked about.
Libby is saying, “Hey judge, people might get the wrong idea, even if I’m not being charged, if they know I was giving Miller classified info at the meeting and that might prejudice them against me, so I’m entitled to all the info available as to why it was ok for me to make the leak.” That’s the context at least.
I think the judge’s initial ruling and discussions indicated that discovery is going to be a moving target in this case, since he is sensitive to both the defense needs and to the government’s ongoing investigation and to the overarching classified info concerns, so that a ruling for today may change over time as the balance points change (trial approaching on Libby, indictments issued on other charges, declassifications, etc.) so some of the successes/failures are more in the nature of Queen for a Day than epitaph material
Is is significant that Libby lied to Judy Miller, when he told her the Niger story was supported by the Key Judgments of the NIE?
Christy,
Thanks for the great information and analysis in this post and your first post this morning. I don’t have time to read all the documents, and what you do really helps.
I have a question, and I just dropped in, so forgive me if it has been covered in the comments. There has been much talk that a big part of Team Libby’s discovery strategy is to find out not only information that will help Libby directly, but also information that the White House wants to know, that may have a bearing on the complicity of Libby’s higher-ups, Cheney and even Bush. Would it be appropriate for Fitz to argue to the court in some instances that discovery sought by Libby’s lawyers is for White House use and not just use in Libby’s trial? In other words, can Fitz use that argument to, in effect, impeach the defense’s representations about why it thinks the documents are relevant? Has Fitz in fact used such an argument?
Wouldn’t calling Wilson as a hostile witness give the rightwing spin machine’s ridiculous argument that Wilson has lied and may have committed a crime some cosmetic viability? A little life-preserver for the wingnut meme that that they’ve been pushing from the time he wrote his NYT piece?
That was my initial thought, though having read other comments I think using it as an excuse for discovery seems more likely. Still, I can’t help imagining wingnut fantasies of Wilson in the Jack Nicholson role in “A Few Good Men.”
“this is a much tighter document “
A different author? Could this be evidence that a different person is now in charge of Libby’s defense strategy?
Mary @ 10:49 am (#17) – What “intelligence disaser in 2004″ are you referring to? I must have been asleep for that one. If it’s unrelated to the Plame fiasco, then it does set one’s mind to wondering.
RE: my 23–
It occurs to me that the White House team may already have much of the kinds of documents I suggest above that they might be seeking through Libby’s case, because they originated in the White House. But they still might want to discover it, for purposes of finding out what Fitz knows…
just popped in – on the crony appointments and DeLay – don’t miss the wonderful news that George Allen has recommened Boykin for appointment to head of Special Ops.
one other bit – CNN just did an attack piece on Conyers “ethics” issues – using staff to babysit, etc. I can’t help but see this as a Rovian payback since Conyers has been leading major issues like impeachment. CNN did surprise interviews and high dudgeon – let’s play investigative reporter – and the story was long. Wonder where equivalent investigative reporting is on Iran, WMD, DeLay’s ethics, etc?
So Libby’s notes do not discuss Joe Wilson’s wife. Is that the exact wording, repeated each time?
Um, what about Valerie Plame? Did her name show up?
April 13 (Bloomberg) — American pessimism about the Iraq war has deepened and may be feeding doubts about President George W. Bush’s efforts to thwart Iran’s nuclear ambitions, the latest Bloomberg/Los Angeles Times poll found.
A majority of those surveyed — 56 percent — said Iraq is now in a civil war, and just 37 percent said they believe Bush when he says a lot of progress is being made there, down from 45 percent who said they believed him in January.
Forty-eight percent said they would support military action against Iran if it continues to produce material that can be used to develop a nuclear bomb, down from 57 percent in January. Forty percent oppose military action, up from 33 percent in January.
A majority — 54 percent — said they “don’t trust” Bush to make the right decision about whether the U.S. should go to war with Iran, compared with 42 percent who said they do trust him. Forty percent said the Iraq experience had made them less supportive of military action against Iran, while 38 percent said it had no impact. The poll surveyed 1,357 American adults by telephone April 8-11 and had a margin of error of plus or minus 3 percentage points.
Analysts said negative perceptions of the war in Iraq are driving sentiment on Iran. “The Iraq experience is very sobering; it tells people that the military solution that looks so easy can be an illusion,” said Joseph Cirincione, director for nonproliferation at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace in Washington.
“I expect those numbers to go down,” Cirincione said of the support for an Iran strike. “The more war with Iran is discussed, the lower the numbers will be.”…
—-
Recall, Strutting Chief Leaks-at-a-Whim never passes up an opportunity to say he doesn’t give a flip about polls, he’ll do what HE feels is right.
shargash @ 11:17 am (#30) – I was wondering the same thing. Usually, when a group’s writing ability suddenly improves a lot, it’s usually because they had someone else write the document.
One other possibility is that they simply hired someone to do the writing, or assigned a different person from the group. Could even be that the writer of this document was too busy last time around. I know from experience in engineering that people who can both write and do the technical things well are very rare. They generally are as busy as they want to be.
Looks like the Judgie Wudgie isn’t very happy about leaks.
http://www.dailykos.com/storyo…..141955/822
-GSD
Had Enough? bumper sticker –
http://btc-usa.org/store/index…..9e9c25bf9a
(sorry, can’t figure out the href tag)
Here’s my devil-won’t-hire-me summary of Libby’s defense positions and how they tie in.
1.He’s saying that he doesn’t recall knowing about Plame and her status before hearing from the reporters. If he knew, he “forgot” (btw – see Hadley’s explanation on the 16 words, about how he “forgot” the October memos to take those references out when, a few months later, he was working on the President’s SOTUS. The Adminstration must all be Streisand fans). So he is entitled to info showing all the important stuff going on that might make him subject to forgetting. (Alzheimer defense)
2. Second argument – Hey, who says I “really” had all those conversations you said I had? Maybe some or all of those people are lying about talking to me about Plame or the conversations they say I had. They may have bad memories too from everything going on (Prosecution Related Traumatic Memory Loss Disorder PRTMLD). Or they may have been involved in their own dreams and schemes that might make them lie – so I should have anything the Prosecutor has on what they were up to (like their schemes to attack Joe Wilson – which they may want to scapegoat me for). Or they may not like me and have it in for me, so I should have access to any “infighting” info the Prosecutor has (CIA mad at OVP, etc.). They may be forgetful, have vested coverup/scapegoat interests, or not like me and I’m entitled to that kind of stuff. PRTMLD, Scapegoat, and Nobody Likes Me info that might affect their credibility as witnesses.
3. Third argument. Even if I did do bad stuff, it’s only bad stuff if I didn’t get permission first. So I’m entitled to to get info on that. For example, if I was authorized to leak classified info, whose to say I wasn’t authorized to lie to the GJ to keep the “classified” the “classified” info that I was authorized to leak “classified” info. Or authorized to leak covert identites. Or all kinds of other stuff. Or maybe I already have a pocket pardon somewhere and it just needs to be produced.
Some of that doesn’t really fit well into catgories like wanting the damage assessment. OTOH, some of it fits fairly well, but for someone like Rove you get into the issue of — who is going to call him? If the govt is not going to call him, then they probably don’t have Jenks Act obligations (is that right you litigator types?) to provide info. Libby claims that Rule 16 “trumps” Jenks obligations, and makes that info subject to discovery even if Rove won’t be a Govt. witness, but how do his arguments as to materiality and relevancy work– if Rove won’t be a witness? Bc, Libby argues, *I* may call him. That makes for an interesting ruling coming up, IMO.
Govt’s duties to hand over info it may have on witnesses it is not going to use, and when the info is not exculpatory of the charges, but defense thinks the info might be helpful to show that a witness, not being used as a fact witness against defendant, might have credibility issues when defendant calls them?
Like a circle in a circle, like a wheel within a wheel …
PS – especially when that witness may be a target of a secret GJ proceedings themself.
On Calling Wilson- don’t know exactly what Libby is doing with this one- may have just been thrown in in case it becomes a good idea- to get him on the record as a preventive against the civil suit.
ck 27 – he didn’t. That is the part of the brief that Fitzgerald corrected
Of course, the WH knows what docs Fitz has. They or their sub-agencies provided them. What Team Libby is trying to do is play Fitz’s desire to proscute this case against the necessity to protect national security. The latter of which falls a little under Gonzales’ job description. The DOJ can still shut this thing down in a lot of ways. Protecting NS is the best and most fool proof way w/o running the risk of publicly looking like they’re CYA’ing because they can spin the NS angle.
And as far as non-documentary evidence in Fitz’s hands, like secret grand jury witness testimony, you can bet they know most of that too. The Joe Wilson angle is no different from intimidating a rape victim at trial. They can do one of two things: 1)Get the media to buy into the JW on trial vs. Scooter being on trial at which point the whole thing will OJ out and the story will get lost; or 2) get JW to back down and ask Fitz to let him off the hook. #1 is more likely as JW will be more defensive and the story will be bigger.
Honestly, this case isn’t about getting off Libby; he’s getting a pardon regardless of what happens. It’s still about destroying JW and other would be detractors of this administration. It’s a shame Libby’s attorneys forgot their oath and chose to be tools in this unethical pursuit.
I have a major headache and a question–if what Libby did were authorized by POTUS, if he feels so strongly that he acted ethically re: Plame and reporters–why did he lie to the grand jury? Isn’t he just tap dancing all around the charge that he lied? And if what he did was all super-duper, as he seems to claim, wouldn’t that work against him on the perjury, obstruction stuff? Why would he lie about something that was on the up and up to begin with. I’m having trouble with this…
It is pretty clear to me that a big chunk of the Team Irving filing carried an implied “don’t turn me into another Jack Abramhoff and force me to tell the prosecution EVERYTHING I know” message.
They want a pardon offer.They are simultaneously advertising for an immunity offer. Kinda offering themselves upto the first taker.
Sluts.
Redd:
Re the 3500 material (Jencks Act), a key consideration is not whether the material gets turned over, it’s WHEN.
3500 material, technically doesn’t get turned over until the conclusion of the witness’s testimony. The idea being that if the prosecution decides not to call the witness, the witness doesn’t have to face having the defense tiptoeing through personal correspondence, diaries, etc.
Believe me, many a potential witness has grown mighty uncooperative (these are lay witnesses, not the pros in this case) when faced with having the other side read their “Dear Diary” entries. Sometimes the 3500 material issue becomes such a problem you don’t call the witness after all.
In big cases, 3500 material is almost always turned over earlier than is strictly required and, if I remember correctly, the US Attorney’s Manual suggests that AUSAs do so whenever it won’t hurt their case, just to streamline the trial.
Anywho, Fitz is not saying he never has to turn all this stuff over, just some of it is not due yet and that the defense is conflating Rule 16 discovery with Section 3500 discovery and they ain’t the same. So WHETHER they are ultimately entitled to it and whether the judge wants it turned over a wee bit in advance of trial so that they can minimize trial delays, has nuthin’ to do with whether they can have it now.
Of course the nice folks who set up the defense fund desperately want it now. They want to see Fitz’s cards. The $5 mill. is going to pay for a whole lot of motion practice, but how much of that is really for Irving’s benefit???? Hmmm??
Team Irving better keep the paddles handy, their boat may be drifting toward the conflict of interest waterfall. Any day now, the may have to start paddling madly to avoid going over into the chop.
Cujo – 31
In 2004, according to Risen’s book, State of War, there was a *glitch* with an email that went out to an asset/spy in Iran. It inadvertently included info identifying pretty much all the CIA assets/spys in Iran and it just so happens, the asset that received this info– was a double or nothing guy. So all the CIA intel assets in Iran got rolled up in 2004. Which left the field pretty open for intel to now be run through and coordinated directly by Rumsfeld.
Just an unfortunate coincidence I guess.
Mary 42 –
My point was the Libby deliberately misled Miller, if not outright lied to her. The Fitz correction brought the facts of the prosecution filing in line with Libby’s actions — but Libby was still playing fast and loose with the phrase “Key Judgments”, with the intent to mislead Miller.
Not to mention that the NIE as a whole contradicted the BS Libby was pushing . . .
GSD @ 37
That’s hilarious, I guess we won’t be seeing any more scoops from Spraynet York.
Ha!
I’n on a pda, so I didn’t read the responses
most of what I read goes to the original inquiry and not to the obstruction of justice charges
also, I don’t see libby going through this without already having been told there is a pardon around the bend
problen is if democrats get a majority the president will be impeached before thr pardon gets done, the president will have to make a pre emptive pardon, is this possible?
a pardon before a finding of guilt?
Why MSNBC and NBC love George W. Bush and his war for profit.
http://www.breitbart.com/news/…..jtq7l.html
-GSD
I would guess that it is already too late for the Wilsons to file a civil suit and have the discovery completed in time to affect the November elecions. Do you attorneys concur?
Mary #46
If it’s also true that Brewster-Jennings was working on the Iranian nuke issue, then there might be more dots to connect than I’d thought. I’m pretty reluctant to don the tinfoil Easter bonnet, but it’s funny how well things worked out for Rummy if he wanted to dispense with his Iraq intel “competiton”, no?
As so often happens, your last two posts have me struggling to keep up – just as on my hikes up some desert canyons these last few days.
Re: “On page 9, Team Libby reveals that they may call Joe Wilson as a “hostile witness.”
Could the reason for this be to have Wilson be included in a possible (potential) witness gag order?
Cue the music, Tom Petty’s “Won’t Back Down”..5….4….3….2…1….
Roll the Bush fist waving footage…..
Roll the Mahmoud Ahmadinejad fist waving footage…
Roll the American voters morphing into a field of sheep footage….
Roll Richard Perle strapping on a sidearm and hopping into a Hummer…
Roll Condi Rice fastening an ultra-violet blast helmut onto her head….
Roll Slim Pickens riding the bomb and yelling “Yahoo”.
http://english.aljazeera.net/N…..528B53.htm
-GSD
OT but Holy Mother of Gawd!
This is really hard to fathom.
Well, my computer crashed twice trying to open the Libby pdf, so I’m not trying again. I wanted to know if the name “Plame” occurs or if it is all “Joe Wilson’s wife”.
Mary @ 11:39 am (#46) – Just an unfortunate coincidence I guess.
Could be. Shit really does happen, especially where e-mail’s involved. I don’t know why, but there are considerable numbers of people out there who just don’t consider how insecure a medium it is. They also don’t check to see what’s in the attachments or quoted text. They don’t remember the difference between “reply” and “reply to all”.
And it doesn’t seem to matter how many times you send e-mails reminding people about these things.
Libby may fear the civil suit more than the criminal suit. He can be pardoned for any criminal activities- but that wouldn’t keep the Wilsons from taking every penny he has and every penny he will ever make- like OJ- he will be force to move to Florida and sell his household items- any Heisman Trophies Scoots?
rwcole 59 – well, now there’s a thought. Would that be the reason he wants to get Joe on the stand at a criminal trial?
GSD at #37
WOOOHA!!!
This is sooo beautiful.
Team Irving whines and whinges about Fitz filing under seal and not letting the real story et out to the American people.
Walton issue opinion saying, please use restraint when filing under seal Patrick.
Patrick obliges and puts all sorts of information in his Motion opposition papers.
Ted Wells responds by 1) filing under seal (that kills me)
2) Leaking the contents of his reply boppers BEFORE he has filed them with the court (amateurs). You get a receipt from ECF (electronic court filing) that tells down to the minute when you filed. (rank amateurs).
Team Irving gets busted by Walton! Now who could have tipped him off to the fact that the docs were being BLOGGED before they were ECF’d?
Who has been lurking in the blogesphere??
Ladies and gentlemen, please know that you and your like in the blogesphere have just done some justice. I’m sure Judge Walton is grateful for your diligence. As a citizen, a patriot and a lawyer, I know I am.
timewarp @ 11:56 am (#56) – Not too surprisingly, here’s the key, as quoted from the same article:
Physical security, people!
I don’t know what led to this, but I’m guessing that it’s a combination of people keeping classified work on computers that aren’t authorized to have them, and the lack of control that often prevails in a war zone.
Mary (#21 and #26) Thanks for clarifying both the “declassification” issue and Libby’s filing. Now I have a better idea of what all the legal wrestling is all about.
me to me (#49) Yes a pardon can be given “pre-emptively.” Gerald Ford did that for Nixon. What I am curious about though is whether a pardon must be for specific acts, such as obstruction or perjury, or can a blanket pardon be issued for “any and all crimes committed.”
The Iran/email/CIA asset roll-up episode reminds me of the unfortunate ‘mishap’ of a US military person, don’t recall who, telling Chalabi that the US had cracked Iran’s encryption code. Chalabi, of course, passed this tidbit along to the Iranians which shut down our ability to decipher.
While it sounds like a bad loss for anyone wearing US stripes, it stands to reason that someone like Rumsfeld could recognize that information secretly gleened from Iranians could be used by some in US intelligence to counter arguments/impressions that Rumsfeld otherwise would favor.
Someone might want to take out the garbage:
http://redstate.com/story/2006/4/13/113113/993
is a re-hash of the same tired old “Liar joe wilson ” talking points.
It’s pretty funny the stenographer can talk about Cheney not kowing with a straight face, given the latest filings (and of course Wilson did not say Cheney personally requested that wilson go)
http://www.opinionjournal.com/…..=110008226
WSJ opinion piece on the “goopers plan to lose the House”
Cujo – I agree, it could be and it’s bad enough in a normal setting to hit that send button and realize its going to the ‘wrong’ person. I can only imagine how it must have felt in that particular “oops” situation. Plus, Risen could be wrong or inaccurate too. It just really is unfortunate; and coincidence really does happen; and I’m not big on tinfoil. But it was a pretty big coincidence – timing, location, etc. and IMO, worthy of not letting slip off the page.
LHP – thanks for the info – I got a very weird flash of Karl Rove with a My Pretty Pony diary and wondered if I was awake or not.
Raving Bladder – I don’t necessarily disagree with anything you say on the underlying pragmatics
ck – I don’t quite follow? I think that they are tieing Libby’s info to what came out on July 18 and it was the summarized key judgments, a couple of alternative views sections, then info on tubes and “vigorous pursuit” of the uranium done as paragraph excerpts. The release itself was, IMO, kind of misleading, but I don’t follow how Libby’s release to Miller was more misleading than what came out on the 18th, at least, according to the transcript language they cite? I may have missed a post on this?
Nominally OT perhaps, but…
Freedom’s On The March, GeeW style
BAGHDAD (Reuters) – The number of Iraqis fleeing their homes to escape sectarian violence has doubled in less than a month, reflecting a sharp worsening of the security situation across the country.
About 11,000 families, or roughly 60,000 people, have now been forced from their homes, compared with just over 30,000 in late March, a government official said on Thursday…
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12303702/
Muzzy @ 12:13 pm (#64) – One of the unintended consequences of the Iraq War is that it has increased our informal contact with Iran. The more contact there is, the more likely it is that some information will find its way to them. We can only hope the reverse is also true.
As you can see from the story timewarp quoted in (#56) and my reaction to it in (#62), this is also true of Afghanistan.
It also doesn’t help when you choose to trust a snake like Chalabi, which is something this Administration did for quite some time.
So, while you’re right to be suspicious, it’s also true that this fits the general pattern of how these things go, and also the general pattern of incompetence in this Administration.
Cujo – on the Bagram part, the thing I didn’t really get when I read the first story a couple of days back is that they are selling sticks. You really hope, as they mentioned, that they are just selling them for the hardware and not that the info is being copied over and over …
It is really disturbing that soldiers private info (soc sec, addresses, training etc.) is out there, in addition to the embarassing and volatile info on what may be our assessments of and plans for the local warlords,etc.
Mary 67 –
“Key Judgments” is a term of art in NIEs, that describes a summary of the key findings.
In my opinion, Libby’s use of the phrase “key judgments” was intended to mislead Judy Miller, since Libby knew the Key Judgments section of the NIE did not contain the information he was leaking.
It doesn’t materially affect the prosecution, except that it undercuts the “I was too busy and distracted to know or member what I was doing” defense.
OMFG
Check this out from JOM:
Hey clarice – Are you in touch with Comstock and the Libby organization she is speaking for?
Posted by: Jeff | April 13, 2006 at 09:42 AM
______
Jeff, it’s none of your business but my only contact is to be on the email list to receive documents once they are filed in Court.
Posted by: clarice | April 13, 2006 at 09:44 AM
Clarice Feldman, you have been punked.
GSD – the Walton gag. ROFL.
So FAST too. What are the odds that Fitzgerald just politely says, “Whatever you think best, Judge Walton”
Re: joe wilson as witness.
Rare, in fact I can’t think of an example, where a jduge would issue a gag order prohibiting a witness form speaking about a case.
There is not logic to it. The witness is not a fiduciary of the court. The witnesses only obligations to the court are to show up, produce documents and things lawfully subpeonaed and tell the truth.
Lawyers have a duty to the court as an institution, we are “officers of the court” and subject in a quasi fiduciary capacity to uphold the dignity and virtue of the court.
Although some so called “lawyers” (disdain dripping from my teeth) think or act as if trial tactics = an excuse for gaming the system, this is wrong.
Ethically, a lawyer is bound to zealously represent their client, but not to make frivolous arguements, not to raise read herrings or go fishing, leak documents, and other sophmoric stunts like that.
Law is not a game. It is not about tit for tat. It’s not about using the filings or the press to play pranks on your opposition.
Criminal trials are life changing events for the crime victims and the accused. Even if an accused is aquitted, they never really get their life back.
It is apparent from his papers that Fitz, gets this. Those papers exist like Glastonbury Tower and Avalon on two (or more) planes at once.
Yes, they have plenty of snark underneath to amuse people like me and like Jane who laugh ourselves silly at the irony. But on the top layer, every word has a purpose driving toward the merits of the cause bfore the court.
Ethical prosecutors are not in it to rack up great conviction stats and make a name for themselves. Great prosecutors are not gunslingers only concerned with the notches on the pearl handle.
Ethical prosecutors and ethical lawyers know that you can win the battle, but lose the war if you game the system to win a case today, that creates a precident that bites you or your country in the tush tomorrow.
Did you know that in many states prosecutors have a seperate, more stringent, code of ethics than private practice and civil lawyers.
That’s because the “client” for the prosecutor is not the government or the president (some please send a memo to A. Gomzales), the prosecutor’s client is supposed to be “justice”.
Like I said, it is obvious from Fitz’s papers and his demeanor throughout, that he GETS this. That his client is justice, and his primary “alignment”, if any, is with victims of crime.
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.c…..age=1&
Looks like Rove, Luskin, and others may be on their way to the principals office … whack …
ck – gotcha. That was my feeling about the info released 7-18 as well, especially if you saw it typed up. The pdf of what was actually released makes it much more clear that after the “key judgments” summary they went diving or cut and pastes of what they liked from other pages, but most of the web based info shows the full release under that heading “key judgments” even though some of it is tacked on the end and is not part of that summary.
I blitzed this thread bc I’m off comments until maybe late tonight.
Redd,
Apparently, it’s the time of month that your BDS gives you mental cramps.
I thought your continued defense of the mistaken assumptions brought on by Fitz’s inaccurate filing may have been a temporary condition, but this take on Team Libby’s response shows me we might be dealing with a chronic case.
Don’t your lawyerly instincts tell you that Judge Watson is just about to tell Fitz:
“Councilor, if you have a case you better present itâ€.
How long do you believe this “ongoing investigation†crap is going to fly? What other cases have you been involved in where it’s the prosecutor trying to keep information secret instead of the defense? Fitz is basically telling the Judge to just accept his theory of the truth, without any need to back it up with facts. That might have worked with Tatel, but not this guy.
And please, do you really find it “very interesting†that Libby would have bullet points on items declassified by the President to pass on to reporters concerning Wilson’s lies?
Your writings on this case have even led your readers to believe putting Wilson on the stand would be good for the left. My god, don’t they know he tells a totally different story under oath than he does to Tweety or Olbermann?
It’s cruel to keep building up the hopes of the “great uninformed†into thinking this will all turn out with the downfall of everyone right of Katrina Vanden Huevel, just to have their fantasies dashed (kind of like election night). You’re too good to not know the truth, so it’s time to start easing the flock into reality.
looseheadprop,
“Re: joe wilson as witness.
Rare, in fact I can’t think of an example, where a jduge would issue a gag order prohibiting a witness form speaking about a case.”
It was done in the Scott Peterson trial (Peterson v State of California)
“Citing “massive” media attention, Stanislaus County Superior Court Judge Al Girolami ordered attorneys and investigators on both sides not to talk publicly about most elements of the high-profile case.
The order extends to potential witnesses, law enforcement personnel, legal staff and court employees.”
Sorry in advance for the freeper link ; )
http://www.freerepublic.com/fo…..8479/posts
j.west 77
I think I can fairly say that most of Christy’s readers can think for themselves.
j.west — watch your tone and I mean it.
j.west,
Print this, you’re going to need it later:
Crow Pie:
1 crow
stuffing of your choice
salt and pepper
shortening
flour
2 Pie crust mixes
2-3 hard-boiled eggs
Stuff the crow. Loosen joints with a knife but do not cut through.
Simmer the crow in a stew-pan, with enough water to cover, until nearly tender, then season with salt and pepper. Remove meat from bones and set aside.
Prepare pie crusts as directed. (Do not bake)
Make a medium thick gravy with flour, shortening, and juices in which the crow has cooked and let cool.
Line a pie plate with pie crust and line with slices of hard-boiled egg. Place crow meat on top. Layer gravy over the crow. Place second pie dough crust over top.
Bake at 450 degrees for 1/2 hour.
That sexist shit won’t fly here. Make your points without it.
Mary @ 12:41 pm (#71) – If I were working for any intelligence agency that has an interest in our Middle East affairs, I’d have been watching such bazaars for just this kind of thing. In any country where most people can’t earn in a week what the average American earns in an hour, there will be at least one local employee at a military installation who is a part of a theft ring. You can pretty much count on that. You can also count on some DoD employees to be careless with the information they’re entrusted with.
Thankfully, it seems our counter-intel people understand this, as well.
According to MSNBC, at least one “flash memory drive” contained classified information regarding some of our local informants/spies.
It seems like portable computers and those drives were the principle targets. This is logical, since they already come with everything you need (assuming the thief was able to steal the cords). (It also helps that these things are easy to steal). I doubt whoever ended up owning them would have reformatted the drive to install his own OS. That’s not an easy thing to do with a laptop even in America. If they didn’t reformat the drive, all that information will be available until the new owners run out of room on their hard disks.
In short, this is a screwup of major importance. Now we’ll see how the little guys are treated when they’re careless with such data. I suspect you’ll notice some differences between their fates and those of certain senior Administration officials.
Is j.west a driveby? It doesn’t seem to be following the thread very well.
Coz,
Thank you for the example. To tell you the truth, I actaully almost didn’t know what you were talking about for a minute. Scott Peterson was SOOO not on my radar. I also never pay attention to Rita Crosby’s missing white girl of the week.
That sort of stuff just glazes my eyes and turns my stomach (the media posture, not the murders–murders, if you have had had the misfortune of being at a murder seen or in the morgue are stomach turning in a different way)
Actually, the way you describe it, it might make sense, though I question whether such an order would have survived if anybody challenged it. Was it challenged?
Still, in a way, you example makes my point. It is rare to gag a witness. There has to be a critical mass of hysteria in the press.
I think there is a wold of difference, too, between a gag to preserve the privacy and dignity of a dead crime victim and this case.
I was once involved in a crime victim’s rights committee with Jennifer Levin’s mother (rememeber the preppy murder in Central Park?) and the crap the defense put the Levin family through was not to be believed.
This will sound odd, and I don’t mean it the way it sounds, but there is a bit of a difference between an individual’s murder (not for reason’s of politics or state)which mostly implicates the private suffering of the victim and the victim’s family and the trial of Irving Libby which involves matters of public trust.
j.west has effed up plenty of Left Coaster threads…don’t let him do the same here.
He’s a coward and a punk.
Two interpretations of the statement:
The most direct interpretation is that Libby’s talking points make no mention of Wilson’s wife or even have the name Valerie Plame or Valerie Wilson. A more twisted reading is that the notes say something cryptic like “mention Valerie Plame”, but the notes don’t give any details that she works for the CIA or she had anything to do with suggesting that Joe Wilson go on the the Niger trip, or that she is his wife. I thought that saying “information about” is slightly more ambiguous than “do not mention”.
If the first meaning is true, then the defense argument is that Libby later forgot that he had mentioned Valerie Plame because it wasn’t in his notes. The rebuttal to that defense is no one would be so stupid as to write down the name of a covert CIA agent as part of a talking points memo for a reporter. Libby could be counted on to remember that point without written prompting to himself.
Thread theorist. I had the same thought. As I mentioned upthread, I can’t load the PDF to search for other references to Plame.
j.west @ 12:49 pm (#77) – You might be persuasive (and I emphasize the might) if you had the good sense not to insult the folks who run the blog.
Might help if you had some plausible arguments, as well.
Apparently, it’s About Time for a new thread.
j.west @ 12:49 pm (#77)
Legitmate questions are a great thing. Wanton douchebaggery with impunity–as though the people in your camp number more than 33% of the population now-to quote the Geico caveman: “Not cool”.
-GSD
The Geico caveman….that’ll have the duck with the mango salsa….GSD, you’re a howl.
Don’t feed the j.west troll. They lose interest and skulk off when they fail get any reactions.
Noted on HuffPo:
NEW YORK (April 13) – Banned by Comedy Central from showing an image of the Islamic prophet Muhammad, the creators of “South Park” skewered their own network for hypocrisy in the cartoon’s most recent episode.
The comedy – in an episode aired during Holy Week for Christians – instead featured an image of Jesus Christ defecating on President Bush and the American flag.
In an elaborately constructed two-part episode of their Peabody Award-winning cartoon, “South Park” creators Matt Stone and Trey Parker intended to comment on the controversy created by a Danish newspaper’s publishing of caricatures of Muhammad. Muslims consider any physical representation of their prophet to be blasphemous.
When the cartoons were reprinted in newspapers worldwide in January and February, it sparked a wave of protests primarily in Islamic countries.
Parker and Stone were angered when told by Comedy Central several weeks ago that they could not run an image of Muhammad, according to a person close to the show who didn’t want to be identified because of the issue’s sensitivity.
The network’s decision was made over concerns for public safety, the person said.
Comedy Central said in a statement issued Thursday: “In light of recent world events, we feel we made the right decision.” Its executives would not comment further…
***
Legit fear of nihilistic Islamo-nutcases?
BobbyG @ 1:35 pm – Legit fear of nihilistic Islamo-nutcases?
I’d say so. I don’t know which corporation Comedy Central is a part of, but it’s sure to have holdings all over the world.
I wonder what all those “South Park conservatives” will have to say about this episode…
Bobby G
So, if they cite “Executive Privilege†and refuse, does that neuter the case against Libby?
Nixon claimed Privilege over the tapes and the SCOTUS shut hime down, so maybe not?
I thought your continued defense of the mistaken assumptions brought on by Fitz’s inaccurate filing may have been a temporary condition
Another argument against homeschooling: trolls can’t read.
.
Great analysis here – best on the web. Now for my 2c I hypothesize that Pat might be sending us a message here with that one liner correction. Back when he said this is not about the reasons why the US state went to war he was absolutely spot on. He is tasked with finding the leaker of Valerie Flames name – that’s all.
As this has all become a major world crisis ever since 2003 I think we need to widen it out. To explore how to bring the charge of the ‘ Supreme crime’ against the cabal before the Hague.
Thank fuck we now have the net and we can call Andrew Wilkie in australia and David Kelly in …sorry, someone else from the UK and really get a global coalition of the willing happening.
This is far from a sectarian, parochial or partisan issue. We are dealing with a major world crisis that is distracting from at least one threatning catastrophe – runaway greenhouse similar to Venus – and it is costing the lives of hundreds of completely innocent men , women and children.
There are some great legal minds here so can we see some exploratory scouting work on this world court indictment please?
I’ll serve the papers for no charge.
I know I’m jumping in late, but…
Marky #34, no Wilson’s wife or Valerie Plame here, just someone named Valerie Flame.
Looseheadprop #45, you beat me to it. I’m wondering, as a non-lawyer, if the bait in the filing was possibly intended to get Fitzgerald interested in an immunity deal. This is, I’m sure, a naive question, but doesn’t the defense have better ways of communicating with the prosecutor?
And since I usually just lurk, I want to make sure I say a gigantic THANK YOU to Redd for her analysis, and the rest of you for your insights.