I love Arianna and as I said yesterday, I'm sympathetic with her and others who want to embrace all converts to the "this war is a bad idea" camp. But I am intrinsically, tempermentally and constitutionally opposed to allowing Newt Gingrich and other architects of war to evade responsibility for their actions and give themselves political cover by handing them a "free pass" for their zealous efforts to land us in the middle of this quagmire.
Newt Gingrich does not equal Hillary Clinton. He does not equal John Kerry and he sure as hell doesn't equal Jack Murtha. Glenn Greenwald has an excellent piece up at Alternet today about Newt's history in branding anyone who opposed the Bush Administration and/or the war as traitors giving aid and comfort to the enemy:
These same would-be Bush critics have spent the last four years creating a paradigm where this type of criticism of the Commander is not permitted because such criticism constitutes aid to Al Qaeda and is therefore tantamount to treason. Compare the criticisms made by Gingrich of the President's illegal eavesdropping and his Iraq policies to this truly disgusting declaration made by him just a few months ago on Hannity & Colmes:
I think it's quite clear as you point out, Sean, that from this tape, that bin Laden and his lieutenants are monitoring the American news media, they're monitoring public opinion polling, and I suspect they take a great deal of comfort when they see people attacking United States policies.
There are few people left willing to defend the President on much of anything, including the NSA scandal. Several days ago, House Judiciary Committee Chairman James Sensenbrenner publicly upbraided Alberto Gonzales for "stonewalling" -- i.e. engaging in a cover-up -- for concealing virtually all relevant information sought by the Committee as it pretends to investigate the Administration's eavesdropping conduct.
There is clearly a sea change going on. The self-interested rats who propped up this Administration with blind loyalty for the last five years are now jumping ship as it sinks, desperately trying to save themselves by showing some extremely belated autonomy and independence. But where were Gingrich, Conway and Sensenbrenner for the last five years while "the most politically and substantively inept (administration) that the nation has had in over a quarter of a century" inflicted unquantifiable, arguably irreversible damage on our nation? They were accusing Administration critics of lacking patriotism and being on the side of terrorists, and they cannot be allowed to distance themselves now from the Administration to which they tied themselves.
Newt didn't just support the war. In addition to sitting on the Defense Policy Board and being one of its more enthusiastic cheerleaders, he created a climate where it became impossible to question the war, the rationals given for it or any of the disastrous decisions made by George W. Bush by branding people who did so as anti-American turncoats. As Glenn says:
The greatest evil of the last five years isn't that our government pursued disastrous and illegal policies, it's that the administration and its supporters attempted to immunize themselves from criticism for those actions, thus depriving our democracy of its greatest strength. To watch the people responsible for that dissent-quashing now stand up and voice the very criticisms they've long equated with treason is far too infuriating to celebrate. It is important to ensure that the people responsible for the indescribable mess our country is in on so many levels not be allowed to extricate themselves from responsibility. There has been one political faction which has run every part of our country for the last five years and they are responsible for everything that has happened. We know who they are and it is critically important that they not be permitted to play-act as a legitimate opposition.
So we should embrace Newt's apostasy? I don't think so. He's admitted no culpability, taken no responsibility for his role in all of this. As Bill Sher argues, he's probably just dancing around trying to find a new neocon frame for the whole mess that will wash with an increasingly disillusioned public. One that, I suspect, will include the wisdom of going to war with Iran ("you see, the war we really wanted was...")
I guess I'm just not the "forgiving" type when it comes to the likes of Newt. Don't expect me to joining any kind of applause chorus any time soon.
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Fitz!
Absolutely. The exclusionist policies of the Right and its intolerance of dissent marks them. It’s good that he has changed his view of this greatest foreign policy strategic blunder, but he really should apologize for calling the rest of us traitors for having the wit to see it before he did.
Newt Gingrich has done more to harm this country than practically any politician I can think of, Bush/Cheney excluded. He doesn’t deserve a break. The criticism-equals-treason argument he makes is similar to the one Sen. Pat Roberts (R-WH) made to me in a letter recently; he was referring to Sen. Russ Feingold’s censure resolution. He didn’t use the “t” word, but came close. That is so typical of the Republicans. Gingrich should crawl back under the rock he came out from.
Fits, Feingold, and Lamont!
Spend thrifty contract with America;
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200.....y_budget_3
What I would like to say to Newt and others like him who make the “treason” argument, is: What part of democracy do you not understand?
Newt is still kissing up to “the base,” telling Sean Hannity that his immediate withdrawl item was misquoted in www.freerepublic.com. He’s just another rat leaping from the sinking ship, but covering all his bases (enough mixed metaphors?)
It’s going to take a long time and some pretty extreme measures before I will ever be able to make nice with the people who have done everything they can to bankrupt and destroy this country. We appreciate your speaking up, Newt, but you are absolutely positively not off the hook.
Noting that rats are fleeing a sinking ship doesn’t necessarily mean you support the rat. But it certainly lends credence to the theory that the ship is, indeed, sinking.
That said, all is not forgiven, but we should not discourage conservatives from coming clean on this, or really any issue.
Amen, Jane; not one of these warmongers gets a free pass. We need to keep stuffing this back down their throats. Didn’t one of your earlier posts say they’d re-animated because we failed to drive the stakes through their hearts? Let’s not fail again. (Nitpick–it’s “disillusioned”.)
Spot the fuck ON, Jane. And Glenn lays it out in his usual beautiful way. These craven weasels all need to have “IRAQ WAR ARCHITECT/BOOSTER” tattooed on their foreheads.
Newt used the politics of personal destruction and vilification to bring the GOP to power in the House. He led the crazies in what President Bill Clinton called “a fucking coup d’etat”. He is majorly responsible for the destruction of civilized discourse in politics…
So true, Jane. I absolutely agree and applaud you for naming this. The rats are indeed leaping - Colin too.
Newt is nafarious - I’m sticking my fingers in my ears and humming. I will not listen to his trash talk.
Newt is a guy who prides himself on being a man of ideas. One who can think deeply about the future. What did the the disaster that is Iraq just suddenly come to him? Where was he during the Murtha smear-a-thon? Was Iraq still ok?
One thing is pretty clear to me. Newtie is a coward. Was this an epiphany for the old Newtster or did he struggle with his conscience until it was clear the Bush is toast and he can safely come out and try to seize the mantle of the corrupt and rotten hulk of a Republican party.
Newt is a phony - a first class phony at that- and has been one since at least the first day he soiled the House of Representatives with his disgusting presence.
I agree with Jane in general that these assholes’s hides should be nailed to the Iraq disaster unto perpetuity and in particular that Newtie’s deserves an especially generous helping of nails to make sure it stays firmly attached.
More than anyone else Gingrich is responsible for the “politics of personal destruction” in our nation’s political discourse. The fat philanderer is just trying to stay in the game vs. being marginalized with the rest of the neocons.
We need to stick to a strict “de-Bushification” of this country. Or perhaps more like South Africa’s Truth and Reconciliation Commission. Whichever, none of the architects of the Bush government and the wars they’ve created must be allowed to slip back into polite society, avoiding their judgements. We let the warmongers and neo-cons get away after Iran-Contra, and look where that led this country. Not a second time.
Newt as a new hero? Hell NO!
Gingrich told the students their generation was entering a dangerous period - just as dangerous or more than that of the Cold War. He said the best move would be to replace Iran’s government by organizing opposition within Iran.
A student asked if that would be possible now, considering the United States’ involvement in Iraq.
“Could we do it technically? Yes,” Gingrich said. “We’re not using much of our Navy or Air Force.
“If Iranians don’t think you’re prepared to replace their government, they’ll never consider (a) deal.”
ArgusLeader
He hasn’t changed at all. He’s just jumping to another ship.
I can hear it now, can’t you?
SUNDAY MORNING ON ‘MEET THE PRESS’:
RUSSERT: Even Newt Gingrich, who opposes the war in Iraq, loves the idea of nuking Iran. And as Seymour Hirsch’s article in the New Yorker said, there is a great deal of bi-partisan support for this.
Thanks for your clarity and your honest anger, Jane. Much of my training was in the VA hospital in Seulveda, CA, where I saw and treated the psychiatric casualties still present a decade and half after Vietnam.
The idea that Gingrich and the rest of the physical and moral cowards who brought about the Iraq war and the domestic tyranny used to advance that war are now posturing as though they have a scintilla of concern for the troops is despicable.
I want to see Newt and his crowd reminded of their guilt, complicity, and incomptence every time they crawl into the light.
Thanks for sticking it to Newt. Any slimeball who serves divorce papers on their wife while she is hospitalized for cancer deserves a slow emasculation with a very dull, rusty implement.
without Newt, there would have been no Abramoff machinations, no Tom Delay & K-Street Project, no Republican Rubber Stamp Congress, no Impeachment …
With the possible exception of Bush and Cheney, Newt is America’s most vile living politician. He is doing a Nixon in 68 style makeover. He is positioning himself for 2008. There are some people I’d be willing to extend a hand to, but he is absolutely not one of them.
This rubbish about giving aid and comfort to the enemy if you protest the war is such a load of poop. These people sicken me and this Newt character is about as bad as they come. I haven’t forgotten the story of his behavior with his wife dying from cancer…
These creeps should be banished from politics, from television and from government for their misdeeds. How do we make them go away?????
They lie, the cheat, they steal… the would step on the mother to get their ugly faces on TV.
Please can we deport them to Siberia?
Get the rope and tie his ass to the mast.Disgusting self serving coward.Now that the death rattle is near, he wants to make nice.Well FUCK HIM.
Those who labeled people who opposed the war as traitors or otherwise made honest dissent seem unpatriotic, should not be welcomed as friends at all without full apologies for their wrongs, and even then we shouldn’t be in any big hurry.
Those who don’t apologize, screw ‘em.
Same deal for those who made dishonest arguments for the war. Nice of Colin Powell to speak up now, but it’s 38 months too late. He knew what he was doing at the time, but he put his President ahead of his country. Under the terms that define this country, that’s disloyalty to America. His oath was to the Constitution, not to George W. Bush. And he broke it. Screw him.
A timely posting - just this morning I reamed out Andrew Sullivan for his complicity in stirring up war fever, only to start in recently about how wrong he was. No kiddin’, Andy! The New Repentants feel the need to unburden themselves, and I wish they’d keep TO themselves. I don’t need people with blood on their hands to validate that I & my critically thinking friends were right, even with our non-Andy intellects. It took courage in 2003 to say the war machine was off on a wild goose chase, while at the same time Andy and his playmates heaped scorn and virtual accusations of treason upon our heads.
How do we trust any of these knuckleheads again? I won’t try.
33 US military dead in Iraq already this month.
No wonder the news is about bombing Iran.
Passage across the River Styx is booked for the forseeable future….
EPU’d re DeCascadian #62:
Another Will Rogers line should be enshrined as the motto of Bush-Cheney: “It ain’t what you don’t know that hurts you, it’s what you do know that ain’t so!”
I think this change of heart has more to do with Newt’s desire for resurrection than any desire for redemption. Newt’s been a behind the scenes player since his own disgrace. This, along with his call for higher ethical standards for Congress, sounds like an attempt to capitalize on these things as a way to return to power either as an elected official or an appointee.
When it comes to Newt Gingrich, I don’t think you can be too cynical.
Jane Hamsher @ 5:01 pm (#18) - bipartisan support? I wonder which two partisans he’d be referring to?
Newt’s a cynical survivor. He’s managed to life through his own general kookiness, his penchant for penning bad verse about space aliens and his hankering for a return to Dickensian child welfare standards. He’ll be around long after Bushco are collectively imprisoned.
Meanwhile, CNN is runnning a front page story about how John Conyers is corrupt because he sends his staff on personal errands (as opposed to stealing elections and billions from the treasury and making mincemeat of the constitution). Guess our priorities are in the right place…
OfT: “What Can We Learn From CA-50?”
By Mimikatz
The votes are mostly counted, and in the special election to replace disgraced former GOP Congressman Randy “Duke” Cunningham, Democrat Francine Busby fell short of the 50% plus one needed to win outright in this heavily Republican district, but she garnered 43.92% of the vote to advance to a runoff.
http://thenexthurrah.typepad.com/the_next_hurrah/
Newt was one of the architects of this disaster. Any time he opens his mouth about it, he should be asked if that means he is apologizing for (a) having such a stupid idea and (b) shutting up anyone who tried to point out the holes in the plan.
If they grovel enough and say outright that we were right and they were wrong, I might consider forgiving them. That doesn’t mean I’ll forget, or take my eye off them for a minute, but I might forgive them.
Actually, a better place for the Will Rogers quote would be carved in the granite of whatever memorial the Maya Ying Lin of this war designs in honor of those whom Bush-Cheney’s malfeasance sent to death in Iraq:
“It ain’t what you don’t know that hurts you, it’s what you do know that ain’t so!â€
You make nice to someone like Newt,and the first chance he gets he’ll stab you in the back and then claim it’s your fault for not knowing he had a knife.We know you got knives Newty,lots of em.
I think we’ll see alot more of this abandon ship mode,and I for one will have a tough time forgiving any of these people.They’re liars and warmongers.The destruction just never ends with people who are married to the Neoconservative Movement.They still think they’re right,they’re just figuring out how to re-market the crap as”new and improved”.
News flash: WaPo has amended their Cheney pitch error (and Think Progress gives FDL props):
ThinkProgress
“The Washington Post story before:
The first pitch of the Washington Nationals’ second season at Robert F. Kennedy Memorial Stadium was low and away, bouncing in the dirt before being scooped up by catcher Brian Schneider. For that, Vice President Cheney received a round of boos from the home crowd this afternoon.
Actually, as the video documents, the booing started from the moment Cheney hit the field and continued until he left. After protests by Americablog and Firedoglake, The Washington Post has changed their copy:
Vice President Cheney threw out the ceremonial first pitch, a right-handed toss that bounced in the dirt to the outside of the plate before being scooped up by catcher Brian Schneider. Cheney, booed by some as he walked to the mound, got even more catcalls after his throw — a far cry from President Bush’s fastball at last year’s home opener.”
“Democrat Francine Busby fell short”
The 50th is unbelievable. They still love their rethugs even after being victimized for decades by the most demonstrably corrupt politico in congressional history. Busby is a perfectly good candidate. Unbelievably 10,000 people in that district voted for Kaloogian, who was caught red-handed lying about the war during his campaign (Turkeygate). Can we sell the 50th to the OC and let Klansman Dana (of the expell illegals and used forced prison farm labor instead-fame) represent them? Please? We really don’t want them in the county anymore…
Didn’t Newt flee Congress under a moral stink because he was banging an intern while impeaching Clinton for banging an intern? Didn’t he leave his wife for the chippy he was fooling around with? He’s on what, marriage number three? Four?
I mean, he’s not currently jobless* because, you know, he retired to spend more time with his family. Or families. He’s jobless* because he exploded in a cloud of moral turpitude and hypocracy.
*by jobless I mean not running some part of government
And I’d like to give my appreciation to all fdl’ers who went over to post.blog and howled. You made a difference! Good on youse all!
oregondave — yes I haven’t had a chance to post about that today with all the other stuff flying fast and furious but it was nice to see some traction.
with 20 years in Congress, Newt is getting about $75K/year in pension plus eligibility for subsidized health insurance…
While it’s fine and dandy that we all seem to get it, unless an un-dieboldable majority of Americans wake up and smell the growing pile of corpses, we might as well add the eviscerated husk of our Democracy to the pile.
Given the extent of polarization, division and entrenchment created by today’s putrified politics of personal destruction, eliminationist rhetoric, demonization and a cowed corporate media, how do we break through to the other half and help them not only open their eyes, but stand up and do something about it?
Having seen how fast the immigration debate filled the streets with hundreds of thousands of marchers in only a matter of weeks, (yay!)in contrast to the effectiveness of getting people off their butts to protest war and the looting of America, does not fill me with hope.
How do we bridge the divide? What can we do to get the other nearly 50% of Americans to f#*&!ng vote?
[Gingrich]: “I think it’s quite clear as you point out, Sean, that from this tape, that bin Laden and his lieutenants are monitoring the American news media, they’re monitoring public opinion polling, and I suspect they take a great deal of comfort when they see people attacking United States policies.”
You just don’t understand. When Republicans do it, it’s not criticism, it’s responsible advice. It’s not meant to tear down the Preznit and the maladministration (nor does it even give the appearance of such), it’s to help him, and that can hardly ennoble our enemies. When Democrats do it, it’s showing (or presenting) an appearance of indecisiveness and disagreement, ripe for the plucking by whatever al Keeda terraists might be walking around ready to pounce on us in our moment of weakness. The only allowable “correction” in these perilous times must be internal, otherwise we’ll look to be weak … or worse yet, incompetent.
On that note, I recall fondly Jon Stewart’s comments on the Daily Show last week about the DHS person caught in a child abuse sting amidst the other problmes at DHS and its subsidiary departments. Stewart said that al Qaeda must be sitting in their caves saying, “They’re freakin’ morons. It wouldn’t be right to kick them when they’re down…..”
Cheers,
wow - great thread.
what everyone said!
I’d be willing to give absolution to Newt’s sinful Iraq past except, as TheOtherWA points out, he’s saying the same thing about Iran. Repentance requires not doing the same thing again.
Here’s an excerpt from February:
Same old Newt, second verse.
And I remember, sitting, as a “benighted Southerner,” looking at the hoopla in the run-up to war and wondering how in the world anybody could believe such nonsense from images that looked so indefinite.
Well, there’s one hero in all this, but you have forgotten him: (former)Senator Bob Graham of Florida, who was the only Senator who voted against the war. He was Chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee at the time, and surely, he would have had access to everything needed to make an informed decision. Credit, where credit is due.
Bob Graham was hardly the only Senator to vote against the War!
The following all voted against !
Akaka (D-HI)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Boxer (D-CA)
Byrd (D-WV)
Chafee (R-RI)
Conrad (D-ND)
Corzine (D-NJ)
Dayton (D-MN)
Durbin (D-IL)
Feingold (D-WI)
Graham (D-FL)
Inouye (D-HI)
Jeffords (I-VT)
Kennedy (D-MA)
Leahy (D-VT)
Levin (D-MI)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Murray (D-WA)
Reed (D-RI)
Sarbanes (D-MD)
Stabenow (D-MI)
Wellstone (D-MN)
Wyden (D-OR)
To be “fair” - these voted FOR the War:
Allard (R-CO)
Allen (R-VA)
Baucus (D-MT)
Bayh (D-IN)
Bennett (R-UT)
Biden (D-DE)
Bond (R-MO)
Breaux (D-LA)
Brownback (R-KS)
Bunning (R-KY)
Burns (R-MT)
Campbell (R-CO)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Carnahan (D-MO)
Carper (D-DE)
Cleland (D-GA)
Clinton (D-NY)
Cochran (R-MS)
Collins (R-ME)
Craig (R-ID)
Crapo (R-ID)
Daschle (D-SD)
DeWine (R-OH)
Dodd (D-CT)
Domenici (R-NM)
Dorgan (D-ND)
Edwards (D-NC)
Ensign (R-NV)
Enzi (R-WY)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Fitzgerald (R-IL)
Frist (R-TN)
Gramm (R-TX)
Grassley (R-IA)
Gregg (R-NH)
Hagel (R-NE)
Harkin (D-IA)
Hatch (R-UT)
Helms (R-NC)
Hollings (D-SC)
Hutchinson (R-AR)
Hutchison (R-TX)
Inhofe (R-OK)
Johnson (D-SD)
Kerry (D-MA)
Kohl (D-WI)
Kyl (R-AZ)
Landrieu (D-LA)
Lieberman (D-CT)
Lincoln (D-AR)
Lott (R-MS)
Lugar (R-IN)
McCain (R-AZ)
McConnell (R-KY)
Miller (D-GA)
Murkowski (R-AK)
Nelson (D-FL)
Nelson (D-NE)
Nickles (R-OK)
Reid (D-NV)
Roberts (R-KS)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Santorum (R-PA)
Schumer (D-NY)
Sessions (R-AL)
Shelby (R-AL)
Smith (R-NH)
Smith (R-OR)
Snowe (R-ME)
Specter (R-PA)
Stevens (R-AK)
Thomas (R-WY)
Thompson (R-TN)
Thurmond (R-SC)
Torricelli (D-NJ)
Voinovich (R-OH)
Warner (R-VA)
You are pretty quick with the statistics there, *ilson.
Thank you, “Ilson” for the correction. There are many heroes, here, but not many of the ones who want to be President, are there?
Except for our man, Feingold!
Like the cut of your jib. I’d like to contribute, but I find these chatters and bloggers are Foxlike snobs. I guess I don’t get it.
thse were the good folk in the House
Neil Abercrombie (D-Hawaii) Tom Allen (D-Maine) Joe Baca (D-California) Brian Baird (D-Washington DC) John Baldacci (D-Maine, now governor of Maine) Tammy Baldwin (D-Wisconsin) Gresham Barrett (R-South Carolina) Xavier Becerra (D-California) Earl Blumenauer (D-Oregon) David Bonior (D-Michigan, retired from office) Robert Brady (D-Pennsylvania) Corinne Brown (D-Florida) Sherrod Brown (D-Ohio)
Lois Capps (D-California) Michael Capuano (D-Massachusetts) Benjamin Cardin (D-Maryland) Julia Carson (D-Indiana) William Clay, Jr. (D-Missouri) Eva Clayton (D-North Carolina, retired from office) James Clyburn (D-South Carolina) Gary Condit (D-California, retired from office) John Conyers, Jr. (D-Michigan) Jerry Costello (D-Illinois) William Coyne (D-Pennsylvania, retired from office) Elijah Cummings (D-Maryland)
Susan Davis (D-California) Danny Davis (D-Illinois) Peter DeFazio (D-Oregon) Diana DeGette (D-Colorado) Bill Delahunt (D-Massachusetts) Rosa DeLauro (D-Connecticut) John Dingell (D-Michigan) Lloyd Doggett (D-Texas) Mike Doyle (D-Pennsylvania) John Duncan, Jr. (R-Tennessee)
Anna Eshoo (D-California) Lane Evans (D-Illinois) Sam Farr (D-California) Chaka Fattah (D-Pennsylvania) Bob Filner (D-California) Barney Frank (D-Massachusetts) Charles Gonzalez (D-Texas) Luis Gutierrez (D-Illinois)
Alice Hastings (D-Florida) Earl Hilliard (D-Alabama, retired from office) Maurice Hinchey (D-New York) Ruben Hinojosa (D-Texas) Rush Holt (D-New Jersey) Mike Honda (D-California) Darlene Hooley (D-Oregon) John Hostettler (R-Indiana) Amo Houghton (R-New York, retired from office) Jay Inslee (D-Washington)
esse Jackson, Jr. (D-Illinois) Sheila Jackson-Lee (D-Texas) Eddie Bernice Johnson (D-Texas) Stephanie Tubbs Jones (D-Ohio) Marcy Kaptur (D-Ohio) Dale Kildee (D-Michigan) Carolyn Cheeks Kilpatrick (D-Michigan) Jerry Kleczka (D-Wisconsin, retired from office) Dennis Kucinich (D-Ohio)
John LaFalce (D-New York) James Langevin (D-Rhode Island) Rick Larsen (D-Washington) John Larson (D-Connecticut) Jim Leach (R-Iowa) Barbara Lee (D-California) Sandy Levin (D-Michigan) John Lewis (D-Georgia) Bill Lipinski (D-Illinois,retired from office) Zoe Lofgren (D-California)
James Maloney (D-Connecticut, retired from office) The late Robert Matsui (D-California) Karen McCarthy (D-Missouri, retired from office) Betty McCollum (D-Minnesota) Jim McDermott-D-Washington) Jim McGovern (D-Massachusetts) Cynthia McKinney (D-Georgia) Carrie Meek (D-Florida, retired from office) Gregory Meeks (D-New York) Robert Menendez (D-New Jersey) Juanita Millender-McDonald (D-California) George Miller (D-California) Alan Mollohan (D-West Virginia) Jim Moran (D-Virginia) Connie Morella (D-Maryland)
Jerrold Nadler (D-New York) Grace Napolitano (D-California) Richard Neal (D-Massachusetts) Jim Oberstar (D-Minnesota) David Obey (D-Wisconsin) John Olver (D-Massachusetts) Major Owens (D-New York)Frank Pallone, Jr.(D-New Jersey) Ed Pastor (D-Arizona) Ron Paul (R-Texas) Donald Payne (D-New Jersey) Nancy Pelosi (D-California) David Price (D-North Carolina) Nick Rahall (D-West Virginia) Charles Rangel (D-New York) Silvestre Reyes (D-Texas) Lynn Rivers (D-Michigan, retired from office) Ciro Rodriguez (D-Texas, retired from office) Lucille Roybal-Allard (D-California) Bobby Rush (D-Illinois)
Martin Olav Sabo (D-Minnesota) Loretta Sanchez (D-California) Bernie Sanders (I-Vermont) Thomas Sawyer (D-Ohio) Jan Schakowsky (D-Illinois) Bobby Scott (D-Virginia) Jose Serrano (D-New York) Louise Slaughter (D-New York) Vic Snyder (D-Arkansas) Hilda Solis (D-California) Pete Stark (D-California) Ted Strickland (D-Ohio) Burt Stupak (Michigan)
Mike Thompson (D-California) Bennie Thompson (D-Mississippi) John Tierney (D-Massachusetts) Edolphus Towns (D-New York) Mark Udall (D-Colorado) Tom Udall (D-New Mexico)
Nydia Velaquez (D-New York) Pete Visclosky (D-Indiana) Maxine Waters (D-California) Diane Watson (D-California) Melvin Watt (D-North Carolina) Lynn Woolsey (D-California) David Wu (D-Oregon)
just dropping in tonight,
If anyone wants to listen to Terry Gross interview Seymour Hersh, you can do it here
Now at 8pm EST
http://www.wbur.org/listen/
big hug
Bloody well right. Let us never forget.
YO! Wake da F*?# up. These treasonous scum are not going away. We have to throw them out. Drive them into the sea!
Get active, donate to ACT! Blue.
They are like ticks who have sunk their heads into the nation’s flesh.
Put the fire to them!
Meteor Blades 45
Newt is just flat wrong. It’s not 1935, it’s 1940, and Bush isn’t deciding whether or not to be Churchill, he’s deciding to be Tojo. The model Bush and Newt are emulating is not brave Churchill, it’s cowardly Tojo and his Pearl harbor pre-emptive strike. They’re trying to replay WWII as the wrong goddamned side.
IMO, All of the dirt merchants who brought us to this precipice, whether by commission or omission, can STFU and take their assigned seat on the shame bus.
¡Deguello!
Oops, also
Dynamite posts and links today
More folks should visit Mash’s site, very nice.
also really appreciated the tech discussion re: Iran’s abilities vs Bush Bullshit.
Snotty. Well, you know, you just said it all.
Finally, I’m with you, Jane, read Arianna and she’s just too soft. We need progressives not apologists.
xx
Didn’t Newt flee Congress under a moral stink because he was banging an intern while impeaching Clinton for banging an intern?
cleter –
And IIRC, there were some details to the story which gave it extra-hypocritical shock value — wasn’t Newt caught engaged in *oral sex* (that “perversion” the righties had conniptions over when Clinton did it) with the babe in a congressional parking lot (or was it a parking garage)?
Newt is extra slimy weaselly. I’d say he looks like an untrustworthy used car salesman, except that I wouldn’t want to slander untrustworthy used car salesmen.
Newt Gingrich is as slimy as the mucous on the skin of an Oregon trout. He doesn’t just have blood on his hands for the death he helped cause as a result of his support for the invasion of Iraq, his whole body drips with it. However, it’s going to be difficult if not well nigh impossible for Demos like me to forgive Hillary for her participation in the carnage that is Iraq and following the Bush lead in the run-up to this ghastly war. I thought Senator Clinton was smarter by a long shot than me when it came to seeing through the monster that is this president. Just goes to show…
Anyway, hard as it may be, I shall support Hillary if she is the nominee for 2008. Damn. But the Senator should come down hard in opposing any war Bush might foist on the American people concerning Iran.
before the War, somebody observed wisely that the Congresscritter’s vote on the War Resolution would be the one vote they will ever be remembered for in history. Julia voted right!
Will the War of Southern Stupidity never end? Send Newt back home, let the South secede, and let’s close the border.
cleter
That is brilliant — what a great response to the preemptive strike concept.
1) It play son our collective narrative of the “cowardly Japenese sneak attack” and
2) It has an undeniable racial and cultural “other” component that will resonate with even the reddest redstater.
Can I steal it? I really think Jane and Redd should run with that idea and write it up.
Bush as the Emperor, Newt/Rumsfeld as Tojo.
Perfecto!
Jane,
Don’t expect me to cut some slack for a war-monger like Gingrich. Some of these righ-wing assholes are having a ‘road to Damascus’ experience because they know that the
American people are finally waking up to their bigoted racist bullshit.
These narrow-minded creeps are a cancer on our society.
Think of Newt as a bellwether. He is sort of Republican litmus paper: his color tells what the political PH is.
Right now, the Republican PH is “Get the hell away from George Bush, because the country is pissed as hell at him.”
I’m with you, Jane. He is a scumbag and he is trying to figure out how to run for President in 2008. I welcome him to the race. McCain against Newt should be good theater. It’s sort of like watching a bad movie, where there are no good guys, just Republicans.
OT and btw— James Lee Witt on cspan2 making sense right now.
If you voted for this idiotic war, you ain’t getting my primary vote in 2008. I guess that leaves me with Feingold, or some obscure governor.
I agree with darkblack. STFU and get on the shame bus.
new thread - new sanity
immanentize–
I would be honored. Steal away.
Neurophius #3 - Hear! Hear!
#20 Kirk Murphy - “Any slimeball who serves divorce papers on their wife while she is hospitalized for cancer deserves a slow emasculation with a very dull, rusty implement.”
And Jane is just the gal to do it. We’ll hold him down.
Ann Nonymous #51- stick around, you’ll not only get it but like it, too. How are we Foxlike snobs? This is not an exclusive club. We just “know” each other by now but we are very friendly to newcomers.
Goodnight, Zennurse. Sweet dreams.
I am all FOR forgiveness–assuming the guilty party genuinely apologizes AND is willing to do something to show they have truly repented.
I think the appropriate punishment for guys like Newt (and anyone else that thought attacking Iraq was a good idea) is that they have to wear a LARGE “R” in public (R for retard) for the next ten years.
Newt Gingrich may not equal Hillary Clinton, but not by much.
“in at least a quarter century”
THAT is a shot against a mister Jimmy Carter.
Once a political hack, always a political hack. Go crawl back under your rock, Newt.
Forgive only when someone sincerely apologizes.
I agree completely. Don’t let them off the hook. I saw where Al Franken had said of Ann Coulter that she rips up people and then plays the victim. Seems to me that is what the entire Republican Party is about. They gave us the rope - string ‘em up…
I’m sorry, but what is so great about Jack Murtha. He was pro-war when it mattered.
Why the hell would we trust Newt? You go, Jane.
I wonder which two partisans he’d be referring to?
LOL
Don’t be fooled again…I saw Dershowitz on Colbert. Dershowitz’s new book is on pre-emptive war….he claims that he didn’t feel Iraq was the right place to start in the ME…and Iraq has been a mistake but pre-emptive war is still a viable foreign policy but used against a non-threat like Iraq. But the real threat is Iran. The neos have a new twist in their logic. They don’t see Iraq as a total and complete disgrace and failure of the US…just that is was the wrong place to start. Iran is not Iraq…Iran is a real threat that has to be dealt with by pre-emptive war. The neos have no ability to self reflect on their mistakes …rearranging the ME is a good idea for humanity…and they will pursue this until we stop them. … Newt is one of them….he is just playing the new neo con game….we can’t fall for it again. Murtha and Kerry are for real…they have a conscience.
Until every person–every. single. one.–who voted for or supported this war has a huge W tatooed on their forehead and are subsequently shunned from polite society to such an extent that people will cross the street rather than be seen with them, then until that time, those fuckers are going to get off easy.
And I don’t want to hear any of this bullshit about “But…but….Henry! We didn’t *know* that it was all lies!” because I, a secretary in Los Angeles who knew how to use Google (see: Project for a New American Century) knew that we were going to invade Iraq no matter what a few days after 9/11. I was called all sorts of names for that, but fuck those people, I was right, they were deadly wrong and they can rot in hell as far as I’m concerned.
Woops, time to start drinking for new eppies of The Amazing Race and LOST.
to Jim in Maine….
the “fat philanderer” is all slim and trim and trying to look like a candidate here in Iowa. We are seeing a lot of him out here.
I’ll try to get to an event (if they’ll let me in!) and ask the questions.
Deuce
The Moon molded conservatives were setting it up years before but Newt’s GOPAC memo tightened the screws on the minds they now completely control.
The memo had nothing to do with convincing people conservatives were right, it was all about fucking with people’s minds - mind control through language control.
Newt did as much to drag this nation to right wing theocratic homophobic fascist war mongering hell as anyone except the conservative’s Messiah, Sun Myung Moon.
Newt is a demogogue, plain and simple. Other’s have spoken as to his guilt in the war drive, though he has plenty else to answer for.
Dismiss him as a demogogue every chance you get, until this appropriate label sticks.
(P.S. He’s a lousy historian, too.)
Newt hates America. Who knew?
Mary, that Dershowitz bit is not a new argument for the Neos, at least not all of them. For years, Michael Ledeen has been saying Iran was the place to start.
So Jane, what is your attitude about guys like Francis Fukuyama for instance?
How much should he be villified for having blood on his hands?
If you hate Newt for being Newt, then that’s fine and dandy (and deserved). Make that clear and don’t lump all apostates together in one basket.
IN my opinion Newt and Arianna get along because they are both phoneys
While in high school, Gingrich started to date his geometry teacher, Jackie Battley. On June 19, 1962, they were married. Their first child was born the following year.
In 1980, Gingrich asked his first wife for a divorce. In an often-reported incident, Gingrich tried to discuss the terms of his divorce with his wife while she was in a hospital bed recovering from surgery for breast cancer. In February 1981, the divorce was finalized, and in August 1981, he married his second wife, Marianne Ginther.
In December 1999, Gingrich divorced his second wife, Marianne, revealing that he had been carrying on an affair for the past five years with a House aide twenty-three years his junior. Critics such as David Corn noted that this activity was concurrent with his leadership to impeach Bill Clinton during the Monica Lewinsky scandal and ascension to speaker on a family values platform. On August 19, 2000, Gingrich married Callista Bisek as his third wife.
from wikipedia
I didn’t read all the posts before this one so forgive me if someone else already posted this.
I consider Newt to be one of the brightest minds in the Republican party. I LIKE Newt!
Jane, you rule!
A direct hit to Fig Newtie, square on his smarmy, lying chin. Keep it up.
He’s a revisionist revanchiste and a warmonger of the first order and needs to be called on it morning, noon, and night. Otherwise, he might fool you.
It’s important to point out that he favored going to war on Iraq and even now, when he says he wants us to “pull back”, he still wants permanent U. S. bases kept in Iraq to control “our” oil under “their” sand.
“Newt” is also another name for small, brightly colored salamanders which can be deadly to humans foolish enough to swallow them.
Our Newtie is one of those toxic little critters. Beware. Be very aware.
No slack never! There’s no reason to rehabilitate these conservatives — Gingrich, Fukuyama, etc. — by allowing them to claim that Bush is an aberration — and that this time they’re really really serious.
In my view, no credentials or ideological pedigrees are required to oppose the war in Iraq.
From a strictly utilitarian perspective, who cares about somebody’s cynical past, present, or future; when it comes to a matter so urgent and concrete as war, if they can contribute to the end of the daily bloodshed in Iraq, their contribution is welcome.
Complicit Democrats, bloodthirsty Republicans, and all others, welcome to a thin slice of sanity! Stop the war in Iraq.
Newt’s cynical change of heart is a precursor to his running for President as the great “moderate” “thinker.”
This 3rd rate intellectual and corrupt windbag is the one who started the K Street Project (Ooops, how much do I owe you, Grover?). All of that said, he should be allowed to remove this feet from the fire - because he’ll put them in his mouth. We can then use every one of his banal utterances against him. EVERY CYNICAL WORD!!!
Public Shaming
We should bring back “public shaming” of all the architects, enablers and cheerleaders of the disastrous Iraqi “maladventure”. They have demonstrated a total lack of the requisite good judgement needed to offer an enlightened opinion on matters of foreign affairs. They have proven that they cannot be trusted to engage in legitimate and honest debate over the most important questions in foreign affairs.
No network T.V., cable network, magazine or newspaper should ever be allowed to seek their “expert” opinion on foreign affairs ever again without a loud and sustained chorus of public shaming pouring down on them.
The Causes of War
Everybody is fundamentally against war because everybody is intelligent and war is unintelligent. Wherever war is justified and becomes unavoidable, such as against Hitler, it is so because the causes of it are unintelligent, eg sanctions against Germany following the first world war.
In the case of the Iraq war, this was initiated chiefly by USA authority in the name of democracy, yet democracy, I think, stands for government of the people, by the people, for the people, which raises the question – when everybody is inwardly, and the majority are now outwardly against war, how came it to be declared?
Was it a matter of political influences and persuasions, demonstrating that politics is not truly democratic?
Newton has unlimited gall.
Hear, Hear Jane. You are on target and completely correct about Newt and all the others who now want to pretend that they were not the cheerleaders for the war in Iraq. They are just positioning themselves for the next attack on American ideals. Being from Georgia I have met Newt several times at one even or another and each time you are in the room with him you can feel the disturbance in the force. He is a completely corrupt man and not to be trusted. Who else would divorce his wife when she is undergoing chemotherapy.
2006: The Year of the People aka Throw the bums out!
Newt and his ilk need to be exposed for what they are (and thank you, Jane Hamsher, for doing so!). The Neocons are a bunch of thugs. They use the tactics of a street gang or junior high rich kid schoolyard bully to gain power and we let them! My god, what have we become!
Get a grip, America. The Neocons have no claim on enlightenment. Look at their tactics: they reward loyalty and punish disloyalty allowing no dissent, focusing on expanding the power base. I mean they openly say, “If you deviate from the talking points, we will cream you.”
Anybody who uses or used these tactics in our nations’s government should be appropriately labeled for having done so, lest they ever again are given the opportunity to subvert our Constitution and Bill of Rights … inalienable human rights and clearly identified as such in our Declaration of Independence.
May the future bless our dream of what we ought to be by making it the isness of our world … by the only means that works to change people’s minds: example.
Will we ever learn the lessons that violence begats violence and peace begats peace? What goes around, comes around.
Those who would exchange their birthright for porridge, soon are left with neither.
It’s not very complicated at all. Simple lessons repeatedly taught.
Jane, this moron Newt walked it back this morning on the Today Show. Lauer couldn’t get him pinned back down on his statements about the occupation being a bad idea, even though Lauer tried in his conflict-avoiding-morning-television way.
Newt specifically said he was all for us staying in Iraq to get the job done. Really need to get the entire video of this, should check and see if C&L snagged it.
The man is a liar and a cheat who’ll say anything to get what he wants. There’s NO way he should be welcomed with anything but cattle prods and sharp objects.
Let’s just imagine for a second that the Mess in Potamia had been a brilliant f@#%ing success.
Do you imagine for one second that Newtie and his henchmen would have let US walk it back?
Bravo, Jane!! The neocons will sell their grandmothers’ souls to avoid accountability for their debacle. We can’t give them a free ride. Maybe Arianna has more sympathy with the right since she herself came over from the dark side, but she must know, the neo-cons see bi-partisan support as a sign of weakness. Just ask Grover. If we give any quarter to Newt, he’ll knife us in the back that much sooner. Someone upthread said he was smart. I don’t deny that. It’s his being a complete scumbag that carries much more weight with me.
It’s past time to get rid of all the smarmy aholes with cutesy nicknames like “Scooter” and “Newt” and “Turdblossom”.
Put the grownups back in charge.
Newt’s former Sargent at Arms and also his former Staffers were big stovepipes within or dealing with OSP and the Iraq Survey group during the runup to Waterloo.
George W.aterloo Bush is someone Newt had a crush on from day one.
Don’t forget Newt’s manic screed of April 2003 lauding the victorious military and demanding a purge of the state department.
http://www.aei.org/publication.....detail.asp
AEI speech 4/22/03
They’ve gone from calling us “terrorists” to calling us “Bush Haters.” Anything to obfuscate the truth. Some very sick little minds reside in the right-wing camp.