
Today I joined sea of Americans – many with official citizenship, some without – to celebrate America.
I find it impossible to convey in words the energy, passion and vitality of the uncountable hundreds of thousands standing shoulder to shoulder today on the National Mall in Washington, D. C., to say, "We are Americans, too! ¡Somos americanos!
Immersed in the present, I felt myself awash in the past:
At the dawn of a new century, fourteen year old Lorenzo and his brother Benjamin left their village of Paita, Peru, to work as a laborers aboard ships traveling about the South American coast. Within a year or two they worked together to build the Panama Canal, where illness claimed Benjamin’s life. Alone in the world, Lorenzo continued to do labor and engineering work aboard merchant ships, taking him to the Aegean, the Mediterranean and to Balitic states like Latvia and Estonia.
Many people who are not nativists or racists throw up their hands in confusion over immigration policy. None of the options discussed in the political arena represent good policy right now, and none will emerge while Republicans control either side of Capitol Hill. But if you want to learn all you need to learn about immigration policy, why it’s broken, and what sensible solutions would look like, check out this excellent short presentation taken from an event last week sponsored by the New Democratic Network. Suffice it to say that the regulation of immigration in a way consistent with American values has been effectively prevented by forces eager to see the creation of a second class of unprotected, disenfranchised American laborers on American soil. "¡No somos criminales!"
By his mid twenties, Lorenzo ended up in New York. When asked to served in the U. S. Army, he did so, thereby earning his citizenship. He met a nineteen year old beauty of a woman, originally from Puerto Rico, and married her. They settled in Brooklyn and had eight children, though the sixth died at age three. My mother was their seventh child. During World War II, Lorenzo became a neighborhood Civilian Air Patrol officer, tasked with making sure all lights were out during drills. I still have the ridiculously large, heavy steel helmet given to him as part of his duties. I look ridiculous in it, and my little brown grandfather with big ears must have been quite a sight when he wore it.
The Americans and undocumented Americans on the Mall today understand perfectly well that they are discriminated against, but they seek no unfair advantages. Though some are labelled as criminals by those who have rigged the immigration system against them in order to exploit them, they only want to work and build a better life for their children. Shouts of "¡Si se puede!" were puctuated by chants of "U. S. A! U. S. A!" They all know Tancredo and his ilk are racists. They see American racism every day, and intimately know its cotours, the smell of its breath, the curl of its lip. Here at FDL, we’ve done a lot in the last week to expose the racism that propels much of the American political right. The indispensible Steve Gilliard has more. "¡Un pueblo unido jamás será vencido!"
My grandfather, though uneducated, was wise. His world travels taught him not to judge anyone but by their individual actions. My mother, and all my aunts and uncles, pursued education after high school. At family gatherings during my youth, Grandpa always raised a glass in a toast to members of the family who had enjoyed notable successes since the last family gathering. A working man all his life, whose firm handshake scraped a boy’s palm like sandpaper, you could not encounter a man with a more civilized and gentle heart.
Anti-immigrant fervor tends to rise when economic insecurity abounds. American income inequality is at historic levels, and fat cats get fatter while working people tread water. The Republican party, riddled with weakness and undeniable failure, now stoke the old fires of racism, not only to deflect attention from its failures abroad, but also from the failures of our Reverse Robin Hood economy at home.
Enlightened immigration policy is a bread and butter progressive issue. As we protect all American workers, we protect standards of living, promote education, build a more sophisticated and internationally competitive workforce and end the race to the bottom in the domestic labor market that benefits big corporations in the short term at the expense of American strength and security in the long term. Even if you don’t share my degree of personal identification with today’s demonstrators, policies that support full citizenship rights for American workers are sane, smart and just. At the same time, we need to build real regulatory systems to monitor employers’ behavior and hiring practices. Building walls and sending people to foreign lands, on the other hand, destroys American families.
My grandmother and many of my cousins, aunts and uncles gathered in my grandfather’s ICU hospital room just after midnight on All Saints’ Day. At age fourteen, I held his hand as his life slipped away. He died peacefully and without pain, having lived a full and abundant life, not in material terms, but counting all the things that truly matter. Immigration and immigration policy is not about "them." It’s about us. It’s about our families. The picture below is of my grandparents at my cousin’s wedding, a year or two before my grandfather died. I have this picture on my bedroom shelf. I dedicate this post tonight to his memory, to the memory of my grandmother and to the many Americans I felt priveleged to join today in celebration of the American Dream.
Photo at top by Pachacutec.
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Fitzzzz! Great pic!
viva el pacha
You’re grandparents are smiling at you with love, tonight and always; thanks Pach. It is about all of us.
Fitz and FDL!
You guys are churning out some good blogging today!
American Dream
My favorite Norman Mailer novel.
Si se puedo!
Sorry.”Above all, we are a nation of laws.”You cannot cherry pick what you want to obey.Illegals are criminals.Period.They have circumvented the process others have obeyed.
=====
And, BTW, I have a few questions for the Bush administration. Hey, BushCo., you cannot cherry pick what you want to obey. You have circumvented the process others have obeyed. And, even if illegals are criminals, we really do know that BushCo. corporations thrive on exploiting them…
grr- YOUR grandparents are proud…
Did I misspell? Si se puede! I won’t forget it again.
Hello, shutting up to go and read post!
and
Nicely done Pach!
PS I loved your “Pachacutec” explanation/pronunciation guide this weekend.
Hey Pach:
Little typo
what sensibel solutions
MsAnnaNOLA: Thanks; fixed.
Nice tribute Pach! Thanks.
Please take the time to view the video I linked from NDN. Do it when you have about 12 minutes to spare, but it’s well worth it.
I have attended many many demonstrations: a few were notable for the inclusive atmosphere, the peacefulness, the friendliness. Today’s Immigration Rally in Indianapolis was one of those. I just couldn’t help from smiling and grinning. I was taking quite a few photos: everybody waved a flag and smiled when they saw the lens was on them.
Good times all around.
I don’t think illegal immigrants are evil brown invaders, or even criminals, in any real sense, though they are obviously violating immigration laws. But I do think they have to be kept out of the country. No program for giving illegal immigrants rights, protection from exploitation, access to public services, etc., is feasible as long as the borders are, in effect, simply left open. Does that mean we need a wall? I don’t know. The only alternative that I can see is real, effective, jail-time law enforcement against anyone who employs illegal immigrants. And that looks to be simply not a political possibility. So what’s left?
Hooray for the Americanization of America! Si, se puede!!
The “rule of law” crowd seem to forget that the only people who can claim to not be immigrants in this country are currently living on reservations in the west, displaced by a bunch of white-skinned European immigrants.
And it goes without mentioning that when these people start banging on their “nation of laws” shtick, they seem to be blissfully unaware of their own chief executive’s flagrant and routine dismissal of the law when he finds it inconvenient to his political ends.
My grandparents came from Italy and had 12 children. My grandfather said his papers were stamped TO NY, so he named my dad Tony.
SqeakyRat.
Why must immigrants be kept out of the country? Without immigrants, we would be in negative population growth. Without immigrants our tax base would shrink. Without immigrants our economy would sputter. Without immigrants, our culture would grow rank and stagnant.
So what exactly is the issue that demands exclusion?
What a beautiful post, Pach. Thanks so much for showing up and letting us know about it.
Thanks, Pach, for reminding me why I love fdl. Your grandparents are proud of you today, and I am proud to know you, and them.
This morning on CNN, they did a feature on a family that had come here illegally 15 years ago and now had four children who are legally Americans. The announcer interviewed the parents. They had to get a translator for the mother. 15 years and she couldn’t speak
English.
My grandparents were immigrants (legal) from Sweden. Swedish was banned from the house. Everyone had to speak English. No one even dreamt of teaching English as a second language.
It seems to me that those illegal immigrants who have made an effort to learn the language should stay. And that should be the only test–not how long they have been here or how many children they have had in America.
A couple of weeks ago, there were 100,000 who marched in Chicago. I wasn’t there, but a student of mine was driving in for our meeting, and he was waaay late. He had to drive through the area where the thousands had gathered to march to the federal building. He was completely invigorated by the people he saw. He couldn’t stop talking about it once he arrived at our meeting. I got “stuck” in the traffic on the way home. This was hours later. But I saw just what he was talking about. It was beautiful!!! There were still thousands making their way back to whatever means of transport had brought them, and they were happy and smiling and waving their flags and singing and chanting. I thought the same thing someone mentioned earlier— Even with our nation in as big a mess as it is, these people risk their lives to come here, to work here, and to live here. God bless them !
Amen.
Fitzcutec !
Pacha,
choked up by your moving tribute to your Grandpa – mine was a 12 year old cabin boy from the Azores. The C Span coverage was exciting, knew that it had t/b 10 times the fire to be there live.
Thanks for the links – great post
Un gigante durmiente ha despertado!
Thanks Pach for a lovely post. I ought to have said this sooner.
ccmask: that is such a sweet story. Lucky for your father, no?
There’s some irony in the speeches of the anti-immigrant folks: they keep talking about the immigrants coming here in order to take jobs from Americans – that in itself is incredible! – while ignoring that their own ancestors came here and, quite probably, did exactly the same thing. But then, they slept through history and missed the parts about ‘No Irish Need Apply’ and the discrimination against Italians and eastern Europeans. Then there were the anti-Asian laws…
Where in the Constitution does it say that we can pull up the drawbridge and close the borders to everyone else? It would be a really dull country without all the various people who’ve come. (I keep thinking of my sis-in-law: British, German, Norwegian, one person from Belarus, and that’s the ones we know about!)
Immanentize –
You know perfectly well what the problem is. It’s wages for bottom 20% of the income pyramid. It’s exploitation by cheesy business greedheads. I don’t think, and didn’t say, that all immigrants should be excluded. But I don’t think it’s acceptable that, when someone in Mexico or El Salvador or Guatemala or China or wherever finds that the shitty corrupt policies of their governments have made life impossible for them, the best option is sneaking across the border into the US to work for subminimum wages.
Lee-
I don’t get that “they should speak English if they want to stay here” crap. Who cares if they don’t want to learn English? They are the ones who would suffer, not you. If they can’t understand you that’s their problem. Why would you care one way or the other? Get a real problem to have a cow about.
‘As we protect all American workers, we protect standards of living, promote education, build a more sophisticated and internationally competitive workforce and end the race to the bottom in the domestic labor market that benefits big corporations in the short term at the expense of American strength and security in the long term.’
I would just like to add that we need comprehensive and affordable health care for every soul on our soil. Medicare part D needs to be repealed and fixed. We owe our Veterans what we promised them. We owe the poor, the weak, the sick, the youngest and eldest among us the very best care we can deliver. It is an abomination that we here in America cannot and will not do this very basic thing. It is a right, not a privilege. The art of medicine/nursing/pharmaceuticals/science should not be reserved for the affluent. Nor should big business benefit from the neglect of the masses while tending to their own coffers.
On my street lives the Sanchez family, citizens originally from South Texas. The grandparents barely speak English (Eliverto better than Maria). The 4 grown children all speak English with a thick Spanish accent but speak Spanish with a strong Hoosier accent! The grandchildren speak English and know just a few slang terms in Spanish … Eliverto’s son Juan named his firstborn Johnny.
Everyone at that rally shouted that they wanted to learn English. It’s not so easy when you work 60 hour weeks.
By the second or third generation, these families are fully English fluent. Just as very immigrant group has been.
What is with these language — what was the phrase? sinkhole trolls (I actually liked soft trolls ’cause it made me think of dinner trolls).
Anyway, I am second generation and two of my grandparents never really spoke English well, ever. My father banished Czech from his life — much to his sorrow as he grew older and realized his children were not offered that part of his heritage.
English is NOT the official language of this country. So get over your Swedish self. Or move to Lake Wobegone or whatever.
PS Here is a little mind-fucking fact for you language racists: One of the reasons that Texans fought for independence against Mexico was because the Mexican government required every transaction — like land sales — be done in Spanish. That’s right, the war of independence (the Alamo — remember?) was about language plurality.
Lee says:
April 10th, 2006 at 6:49 pm
…My grandparents were immigrants (legal) from Sweden. Swedish was banned from the house. Everyone had to speak English. No one even dreamt of teaching English as a second language.
Okay, my great-grandparents did the exact same thing. But do you know what? My grandpa always regretting not knowing more Swedish than he did. Language is a way for people to maintain their own cultural identities.
And I’m not sure of the statistic, but most immigrants- by the 2nd or 3rd generation or so, speak only english as their 1st language.
reposted from a previous thread:
in 1851 Indiana devised a new state Constitution and printed up 50,000 copies for mass public distribution. At the time, the State had many of those slow-headed German immigrants, hard-working and clean but they loved their beer too much. Those Krauts were also too pigheaded to learn English so the State also printed up 5000 copies of the new Constitution in German too. Why couldn’t Hans learn English like real Americans?
That was back in 1851…
When a co-worker (who fancies himself Libertarian and knows my political leanings) recently asked how I felt about the immigrant tuition break being proposed by Massachusetts politicans (can’t recall if it was a state effort or the Boston mayor’s?), I told him I had mixed emotions. You can’t “globalize” and set conditions for such a massive influx of cheap labor (the corporate wing of the GOP’s position) and then go ballistic when the situation gets out of hand. You can’t cash in on this influx of cheap labor and then treat them like dogs because it’s a strong wedge issue.
This issue was hatched by cynical GOP operatives (not that I deny that out borders need to be secure and immigration laws are unenforced) hence the recent furor. I say we turn it around on them: Look how far the Bush Administration has allowed the immigration problem to spiral out of control….and in the wake of 9/11.
How would they explain this away?
SqueakyRat –
It just cracks me up that you forgot to mention immigrants from Ireland, Canada, Poland, Russia, Israel, etc. etc. etc.
Y’know, “white” people
que toda la vida es sueño,
y los sueños, sueños son.
I am the grandson of immigrants from China who went to Hawaii to seek “Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness,” even though they most assuredly never heard of Thomas Jefferson. Their more likely intellectual hero was Confucius.
Within my generation, all the males have served in the armed forces, one of them dying while in uniform. In my case I was a volunteer and still have my dogtags, and my serial number is still burned in my memory: RA4244094, Staff Sgt., Pacific Theater, US Army.
My first and deceased wife had a father who was a German immigrant, a mother who traced her ancestry to Cotton Mather. My second and ex-wife, is third generation Jew of grandparents from Russia and Lithuania. Her brother is married to a woman who is Japanese-African American.
One of my daughters married a 6th generation Scots-American, the other daughter married the third generation son of a Jewish father and Irish-Italian mother.
Immigrants all.
The real scandal is not the so-called undocumented aliens who are seeking a better life. The real scandal is the people who themselves are descended from people who came to this country to seek a better life, and having achieved that, want to deny it to others.
Can anyone in these United States look into a mirror and not see an immigrant past?
Reuters is reporting Prodi won lower house:
http://today.reuters.com/news/…..-ITALY.xml
Well put, orangejumpsuit.
There’s a lot heartwarming genuflection to our immigrant past going on around here, but it doesn’t change the fact that letting the world’s poor move to the US is not a solution to anything. This is not the 1850s or the 1880s or the 1900s. The US simply can no longer absorb unlimited numbers of destitute immigrants and send them off to murder Indians and get rich. There are, what, 5 times as many people in this country as there were when Granddad and Grandma got off the boat. It really is just not the same, you know.
orangejumpsuit~
Bravo!!
The up close, personal,coming from on the scene post was a great and informative read, Pach
Thanks
orangejumpsuit
righteous.
What a day…I didn’t logon tonight, and I missed a Lieberman thread, followed by a thread comparing Bush’s crew to the Watergate gang. My two favorite topics! Aaarghhh!!!
On the plus side, I was really happy to see how well-attended the nationwide demonstrations were. The message to the Republicans is clear – if the undocumented aliens are allowed to stay and become legal residents, there will be an additional 10 million registered Democrats.
No wonder they want to deport ‘em!
Does anyone think the REAL problem for the administration is that the “illegals” lean left? Or is it because 11 million illegals drink up their gas? Or are the corporations pissed because they need them to work over there so they don’t have to pay taxes in America?
Also, why do I feel nervous that Congress is on vacation. When the cats away…….
spin ..dance..cha cha..mambo…….IF you snuck across the border YOU BROKE THE LAW.you can spout all the flowery prose and uplifting tales you want.YOU ARE A CRIMINAL.I’m surprised that the caretaker of this blog who is such a stickler for the law when it pertains to the behavior of those of opposite political views would chose to ignore the law in this case.Tell me, “any means to an end”
and I gonna aint gonna dance cha cha wit eny ones but tem reilly reilly hi-clasy crimimals liken the Preznit cuz thems the stuf that makes Amerika greaaaatttt….
immigration and overpopulation: Holland is the most densely populated country in the world – we have a way to go in this country (although Hong Kong has the land area of Indianapolis and a population 10 times the size)
Agreed…a beautiful post, Pach. Today I feel more proud to be an American than I’ve felt for a long time. This outpouring of pride by Latinos is the best antidote to the hate-mongers.
I want my Latino brothers and sisters to be given the same opportunity as I was given a young Irish immigrant when I arrived in this country more than forty years ago.
Si se puede! These new Americans are reminding all of us of the Rights we have and cannot take for granted as Americans. They believe! When was the last time you heard the term, “Melting Pot”? It used to be said with pride and as a source of our Strength. April 29th in NYC – United for Peace and Justice. http://www.unitedforpeace.org
Great post, Pachacutec. I see strong parallels between the comments that are being made about Latino immigrants and what was said about my Irish and Slavic family up until World War II.
People who struggle to get here understand and embody the American dream. My grandparents and other immigrants came/come here for the chance that their hard work can result in better circumstances for their families. Our immigration laws should be fair, clear, and blind to ethnicity/religion/color.
I should point out, in DC, the event was attended by many immigrant groups, not just latinos.
As for illegality, the law has been designed to criminalize people we otherwise rely upon for labor. This is an American caste system. Liberalization of immigration law is a 21st century civil rights issue.
umm, when we immigrated here, all of us kids spoke a combo of 3 languages– teachers here got upset, said to my parents — nobody can understand them except them. Have the children speak only English. Problem for them was that we were different and to this day, I believe, suspicious of anything so strange and unintelligible. Shame on them for telling us to do that.
This is a persistent problem in much of America now, a virtual dearth of knowledge of other cultures and languages outside of the family or community. But the resentment against all things alien remains. That is, of course, unless we choose to go abroad and then– ooh, la, la– that’s another story altogether for some.
It is to our benefit that we embrace our varied cultures and languages. It makes us part of the greater world, instead of isolationists. I have met few native Americans in my life here, much to my dismay. I have met nobody here who did not immigrate or had family that immigrated… funny, huh?
Immanentize –
It matters when people came. Sometimes countries need immigration and sometimes they don’t. The time when the US needed mass immigration of poor people, whether it was from Ireland, Russia, Poland (I don’t even understand your mention of Israel and Canada?!) or anywhere else is long gone.
I’m all for helping the poor of the world. I just think we should help them where they already are. There really is no particular reason why Mexico, for example, should forever produce a flood of impoverished immigrants to serve as nannies and gardeners for middle-class Americans. Just doesn’t have to be that way!
Hersh on Anderson Cooper now – Cooper says lots of criticism but no denials, Hersh says he’s noticed this too.
Important – Hersh says this is operational planning no speculative planning which they obviously do all the time. Operational planning is preparing to act.
Pentagon wants nuclear option off the table, WH won’t take it off.
Senior officers will go to the pres and formally ask him to take it off the table which Hersh believes he then must do.
Messianic W – not sure what leads to this but this is a pres who believes he can do what no one else can do. W believes that Iranian prez is hitler and this is 1935, people in the WH believe this.
Cooper says “there’s a lot of fear about what is happening in Iran”
Hersh says IAEA has been tough on Iran. Iran wanting nukes makes some sense given how W is talking. Ayatollah has more power than secular authorities.
Huge diversion (from Tricky Karl, Curious George and Tricky Dick) is what this “immigration issue” is. Hugh Hewitt wingnut ass that he is, calling for a fence. We’re gonna call it a fence. Take a look at Israel’s “fence”. They always have to lie. It’s a huge freakin wall that will cost billions of dollars that goes directly to Haliburton and/or other connected Contractors.
They are intent on wrecking this country, and drowning it in a Katrina.
Beautifully said, Pach. Your story helps give faces and souls to a topic that is far too easily made into an abstraction for purposes of easy argumentation.
it’s interesting to note the parallels some folk make: “illegal aliens” broke the law so they should be punished. Bill Clinton broke the law (by lying about a blowjob) so he should be impeached. “Breaking the law” gets abstracted out and strong punishment gets demanded, regardless of the consequences or import.
Vengeance is mine is their mantra…
SqueakyRat: If during the last century we had actually barred Mexicans from coming here or seriously constricted the flow, we would have revolution in Mexico and another leftist-socialist government in the hemishphere. Is that what the right wing wants?
Of course not. The right wing wants to exploit brown people without rights for cheap labor and keep a landed plutocracy generally favorable to the US in power in Mexico.
Credit Steve Gilliard with pointing this out.
dyjech, 49
“IF you snuck across the border YOU BROKE THE LAW.you can spout all the flowery prose and uplifting tales you want.YOU ARE A CRIMINAL.”
Maybe your immigrant ancestors were lucky enough to get in because the means of legal entry were not denied to them.
Dale: That was my goal: to put this issue in its human context, out of the disembodied realm of abstract policy mused upon by those who are comfortable and lacking pigmentation.
if a giant fence is to be built, let’s import on temporary work visas some older architects from Eastern Germany. They have such superior experience in constructing Walls…
C-SPAN is rebroadcasting the DC demonstration now..
“El Sueno Americano”.
Whoever invented Spanish was a poet.
Question for those who want to send all undocumented workers “home:” how do they plan to pay for $10/head lettuce and $20/bunch grapes? Do those who want to deport the undocumented imagine that labor costs aren’t horribly depressed for all in an economy with 10% of its labor force “illegal?”
Lovely, Pach, simply lovely.
Thank you.
G’night all.
Keep your fingers crossed and pray for sanity.
Pach, man. Just great.
Pach, Orange Jumpsuit, Edward Deevy — I am so struck by all of us having this wonderful montage of immigrant (and/or Native American) backgrounds and all those ethnicities, faiths, narratives, working not only for each of us but all of us together, here, as a community — a microcosm reflecting what is absolutely the best this once-and-hopefully-soon-again-great country of ours has to offer. For the life of me, I cannot at base comprehend people so mean of spirit as to deny people already here the right to make something of their lives — when it is so obvious that the ONLY way to curb illegal immigration is to fine, big-time, those who hire them.
But the Repubs need a big issue, and yes, are worried about those 11 million votes.
How to Rove Rove on this? Play to his strength — like what: my mind’s a fuzz.
Schuyler still doesn’t sound Quechua…
Illegals aliens tend to be law abiding people in every other regard. They have to behave. If they get the attention of the law, and become arrested, they risk deportation. Otherwise, the law leaves them alone. Personally, I like them very much. I enjoy speaking Spanish and I talk to ones I meet. If anyone wanted to round them up, it would be fairly easy. Just go to the local Catholic Church that offers a mass in Spanish. Its usually quite full. I say this immigration issue is a big smokescreen to divert attention from more pressing concerns.
Go Fitz!
Off Topic:
wrt voting in New Orleans, if people couldn’t afford to get out of New Orleans how will they get in! Yikes!
I wonder if the “postal system” in New Orleans is up to the job of handling all those mail in ballots……too bad they didn’t set up polls like they did for the Iraqi’s to vote here, huh?
–
But compared to the sophisticated effort to get Iraqis to vote in the U.S., the get-out-the-vote effort for Louisiana residents is a ragtag affair. “I’m trying to get the info out but FEMA won’t tell us where people are,” says a frustrated Katie Neason, who is organizing for ACORN in Dallas.
Pach, A beautiful post, and one I can relate to as my family came into Ellis Island.
Regarding the language issue, Cathy, Lee, and immanetize — yes, people do get hurt when they don’t know English and we are hurt, too. About 5 years ago, a NYPD cop yelled “Stop, police!” three times and the person kept advancing on him. The cop shot him (long story about following into an alley and all — the shooting was not an outrageous action) — turns out the man was from Laos and didn’t understand English. What a burden for the man’s family and the cop to carry forever?
As an ER nurse, I cannot tell you how much time I have spent to secure appropriate translation services for patients who do not speak or understand English. We are now required to do so by law. That hurts other patients I can’t get to, because legally, we cannot use family members because of the new patient confidentiality rules.
And what about a prescription label in English? Is it the pharmacy’s responsibility to be able to print a label in any possible language? The pharmacist then couldn’t proofread the label in every language.
Those are the things I worry about because I have lived them.
Who should pay for all the government documents to be translated into different languages and printed up? Which languages should be included? Isn’t it discriminatory to do just Spanish or Spanish and Polish?
Being an RN, these are things I struggle with. I worry about peoples’ safety. I can’t live with the “it’s their problem” — it’s my legal and ethical and moral responsibility. But I can’t do it all.
“immigration issue” pure Rove
good on all the marchers kicking ass – real human shit.
God knows it’s not going to be our tired, born-here, overfed, tv-luvin Murkan masses that will do something.
Save and reestablish this nation, illegals!
Angie-
I would just like to add that we need comprehensive and affordable health care for every soul on our soil. Medicare part D needs to be repealed and fixed. We owe our Veterans what we promised them. We owe the poor, the weak, the sick, the youngest and eldest among us the very best care we can deliver. It is an abomination that we here in America cannot and will not do this very basic thing. It is a right, not a privilege. The art of medicine/nursing/pharmaceuticals/science should not be reserved for the affluent. Nor should big business benefit from the neglect of the masses while tending to their own coffers.
Hear, hear!! Well said. And it would provide hundreds of thousands of jobs for new health care workers and incentive for training programs. It is obscene and absurd that our ability to seek health care in this country is limited by what is in our bank accounts.
Also, our friend Colin McEnroe who laid Joey out a few weeks back suggested today that the term be “undocumented immigrants” — that’s neutral language — get rid of “alien” (talk about explosive language) or “illegals” people cannot be illegal. Their actions may be (in a variety of situations — Rove and the cabal come immediately to mind), but people themselves are not!
maybe they should just be called “pre-citizens” ?
The overwhelming feelings of pride and positivity in these enormous coming togetherings are something else. It doesn’t escape me, Pach, that you did not use the word ‘demonstration’ in your post. These are something way beyond that.
Me encanta la cultura.
OT.
Christopher Hitchens, the Foster Brooks of international journalism who is in the last throes of wet-brain offers up his latest pre-liver transplant ramblings on the evil Joe Wilson.
http://www.slate.com/id/2139609/
-GSD
Hopeful-Americans?
“El Sueño Americano”
Hmm, that could mean “The American Dream”, but somehow it sounds more like “American Sleep”, which may be appropriate anyway.
Here’s a tidbit from FishbowlDC — Elisabeth Bumiller is leaving the NYT for a year to write a bio of Condoleeza Rice. That figures.
Also, Froomkin calling Murray Waas the now Woodward. Has a nice ring to it.
SqueakyRat
How many times have you or your friends and/or family traveled abroad with your credit cards and AMEX traveler’s checks to the Caribbean, Mexico, or anywhere else and seen the downcast eyes of the poor people who serve you a lovely tropical drink that costs more than their weekly salary? Their managers look closely as they serve you to check the tip you give, so that all the money goes to the owner.
Can you imagine the yearning they have to come here??? As we go around the globe on our travels, wearing our fine clothes, jewelry, designer bags– think how we are perceived. Worried we may have things stolen from us, safely esconced in our resort– aghast if we are bothered by the hucksters, and eschewing all things native, except for the floor shows that are sponsored safely.
It is a small example, but think about it. Immigration laws and quotas are not entirely fair, you know. Until we work to equalize the world and stop flaunting our good fortune and might, we cannot and should not criminalize those who just seek a better life– or survival.
Pach, thankyou for the story of your grandfather. I live in a fishing community (at least it used to be, but the economy and fishing rules are ending it) and many of our families are Italian and Portuguese. We also have recently seen a large group of Brazilians arriving; I don’t know why. Being a hospital, visiting and hospice nurse in this area has been a wonderful experience. I do not have much family and have been blessed to have been able to care for many of the matriarchs and patriarchs of these families over the years. The most striking thing to me about this experience is the ongoing multigenerational family living and the respect for elders which has not changed over time. In the market, I see grandmother or great grandmother shopping with the younger generation and have cared for many, many elders who share a home with a child and grandchildren. It is just something you seldom see in the “European” families; they may move mom or dad in for a year or two, but in my other families it is the way life is lived, to take care of and share the bounty of love from mother and father.
Your grandmother is a stunner and your grandfather sure has a twinkle in his eye, yes?
tojo2000: that translation bothered me too: maybe it should be “La Visión Americana”?
With One Filing, Prosecutor Puts Bush in Spotlight
WASHINGTON, April 10 — From the early days of the C.I.A. leak investigation in 2003, the Bush White House has insisted there was no effort to discredit Joseph C. Wilson IV, the man who emerged as the most damaging critic of the administration’s case that Saddam Hussein was seeking to build nuclear weapons.
But now White House officials, and specifically President Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney, have been pitched back into the center of the nearly three-year controversy, this time because of a prosecutor’s court filing in the case that asserts there was “a strong desire by many, including multiple people in the White House,” to undermine Mr. Wilson.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04…..r=homepage
Wonderful thread and thanks to Pach. G’nite.
GSD, loved your Hitchens intro, “pre-liver transplant ramblings.” LMAO.
I always like it when something that took years and even decades to occur is treated as if it happened overnight. As in, I went to bed last night and darn if this morning I woke up and found 11 million immigrants on my doorstep. It’s not like no one knew that this was happening. And if anyone wanted to close the door on this, they should have thought about that, oh say, about 10 million people ago. Nothing happened and you know why? Because no one wanted it to. Not big business: agriculture, construction, restaurants, hotels, or meat packing and not the rest of us who benefited from the resultant lower prices. We will either go with the status quo out of political paralysis and cowardice or we will legalize those 11 million, because we have no other choice.
Someone a few threads back suggested that immigrant labor should be covered by the same labor laws as citizens, including minimum wage and right to sue for unfair practices. I think this is a good idea and would take away the argument that illegal immigrants are unfairly competing with Americans. Still the only real way of drying up the job market for illegals (if this is what you want to do) is to make employers criminally liable for hiring them. Little of this is going to happen, of course. I foresee more hypocritical nonsolutions and lots of rhetoric, it being an election year and all.
OT: our dear Froomkin mentioned in his online chat that the thread on the WaPoBlog has been highjacked into a discussion of “A Good Leak”. I would bet that many folk at the Post have been skimming through it and laughing and crying softly…
Sueño is common for “dream.” It connotes that which is ardently hoped or wished for, and it comes up a lot in romantic ballads, like those sung by Marc Anthony, in Spanish.
zennurse– A great point you made there. People from the ‘old’ country certainly place higher esteem on family, don’t they? They take care of and value the elderly and the young. Everyone has a place and responsibility in the continuum of life. Not a disposable mentality at all. Thank you zen, for your good work. Hospice is near and dear to my heart. ;)
If America had not opened its doors to my mother’s parents – Polish Jews born in the early 20th century — they would most likely have died in one of Hitler’s concentration camps. As much as I may complain about the things I don’t like about America, I never forget that my family and I all owe this country our lives. And I’m also not arrogant enough to think that we’re the only ones who deserve that good fortune.
So here’s my bottom line: unless there is a damn good reason to think that someone will not be a good citizen of America, we should allow him/her to come here and work for a better life.
Now, exactly how we do that, I’m not sure. We all know the system right now is broken. It’s not just the illegal immigrant problem – anyone who’s fallen in love with and married someone not from this country can tell you what an insane pain in the butt it can be to get their status settled, even when the person in question is here legally.
I recognize that there are some practical concerns that accompany an open door immigration policy and that not everyone who wants to come here is going to be able to come here. That’s Ok, we can work on it. But we need to start from the foundation belief that we want immigration and that immigrants are still welcome in this Land of the Free.
Do Americans have any idea what the systematic deportation of 11 million people will look like? Soldiers hauling away sobbing families, neighbors turning in each other for fear of deportation themselves, children separated from parents, mistakes and wrongful deportations, fetid detention camps in which people are concentrated while awaiting deportation, quite possibly violent, mass and popular resistence in communities where many illegal immigrants live?… and these images will be transmitted to every country in the world, and what’s left of our tattered image as the land of liberty and opportunity will be forever replaced by the inevitable photogged scene of shackled children being manhandled into buses by men with M16s. Just the thought of what this gigantic fascistic clusterfuck will look like sure makes me feel proud to be a citizen…
As somebody who is not American, but who spent a good chunk of time there as an immigrant and who started a family there before returning home to Canuckistan, I just wanted to say…..
Pachacutec’s post and all it evokes, as well as this thread, represent many of the best things about America that I recall fondly.
.
OT, but a little bit fun, Fred Hiatt is also a novelist. No need to blogswarm, it sits at ##2,570,597 on the Amazon list!!!
The Rising Sun
He also writes children’s books:
“If I were Queen of the World”
Yesterday: #1,308,979 in Books
and
“Baby Talk”
“21 used & new available from $0.01″
#1,093,175 in Books
Poor Fred
11 million “illegals” comprise about 3.9% of the U.S. population.
We can’t assimilate that? Really?
Pachacutec,
Thank you. That was beautiful. And both photos too.
Thank you, Pachacutec.
If Europe was so great, the Europeans would have stayed there.
remember those horrid pictures of poor Elian being rescued from the batshit crazy Miami relatives? replicate that by the thousands and post it on Al-Jazeera and the BBC…
Leslie did a great job reporting on our Obama Town Hall afternoon. We certainly tried to get to ask a question but the crowd was big and the time was very short and controlled. Also Obama talks a very long time in response to each question – he does into tons of detail about each answer – at one point Leslie and I remarked on the similarity to a filibuster.
Let’s set the scene: Leslie and I met after exchaning emails on our new FDL ROOTS Group – we found each other easily and it was wonderful to meet another FDLer. When we went in, I asked if they were signing up bloggers as media and when they said yes, we signed up on the media list which will hopefully put us on a list to get event announcements, etc. I also asked who handles foreign affairs on the staff and met the young woman who does so. I asked if we could arrange a meeting for Chicago area bloggers to discuss issues more thoroughly with the Senator and got the contact info for his scheduler. (This is a useful thing to do – it begins to introduce us to the staff personally which helps when we want to get their ear, the staffers have tremendous control over info and positions so they are often even more important to influence than the pol themselves, and the more inside info (names,phones, etc) the easier it will be for us to bypass the voicemail machine and make out points heard. Media lists usually recieve special mailings, invites, etc so try to get on one if you can – since there’s a growing desire to get bloggers on pol’s sides but no real system yet, this may be the ideal time to get treated as media contacts rather than just consituents.
The audience was about 1/3 Loyola students and 1/3 regular folks. Leslie ran into a friend and the three of us sat up front and discussed possible questions – we were well prepared but as Leslie said, only about 8 questions were asked and answered and there was a large crowd – most with something to ask.
Obama’s basic message was that he and the dems have no power and no ability to change/pass legislation, etc. The continual meme of we’d like to do more but can’t do anything was frustrating – at one point Obama said “all we can do is ask please for a hearing” which seemed typical of the dem mantra – since we have no control, you can’t ask us to actually do anything. While we know the limitations of being a minority party, taking strong stands and speaking out does not require control of a committee, etc.
Obama was good in response to a question on help for Aids patients from someone in ActUp, thoughtful and good on student loans, supports Kennedy McCain on immigration, somewhat standard responses on environment and campaign finance.
One person asked why the Dems have no balls and he headed back into the “we have no power” speech.
What was striking were his answers on foreign affairs. As Leslie mentioned, the reference to Venezuela as an enemy of the US was very disturbing – this was in the context of a comment on energy independence and he lumped Venezuela, Iran, and Saudi Arabia together.
On Iraq, there were two very good questions – one from a member of Military Families for Peace and one from a student peace activist. The first pressed on when Obama would bring troops home and would he support Murtha’s proposal. Short answer – no. Obama claims that if we leave quickly, we will “leave hundreds of thousands Iraqis to die.” He talked about the need for a national unity government and said time was running out on that. But everything else was very quibbly – he seemed to want to coast on having been opposed to “the dopey idea” of invading Iraq but not willing to see that we need to leave.
The second question was asking why he continues to authorize funding for Iraq and he got very intense about continuing funding so “soldiers are not sitting in Fallujah with no body armor.”
The question that hit me hardest came from a young woman police officer who nervously described serving at Ground Zero, re-enlisting with a desire to fight in Afghanistan but then being switched to Iraq at which point she got out since she is gay. She expressed her despair – we signed up for one thing and they changed it on us – and then spoke of being a police officer in a very distressed Chicago neighborhood and seeing people becoming more and more desperate. She finished by asking what has happened to our country, we were raised to believe in telling the truth, not stealing, etc and yet we see our leaders doing precisely that.
It was a powerful statement. Obama did not really have a response (surprise?)
Overall impressions – he’s smaller in person, his staff did not seem diverse in terms of race or age, the overall tone was wishywashy in my book – no strong stands where it counts and a lot of talk with no spine.
I’ll be calling the scheduler in the morning to see if we can get a separate meeting with Obama while he is here – if not, I’m going to request a staff meeting. We’ll see what we can set up.
It was awesome to meet Leslie and I’m sure we’ll be doing a lot more.
So folks – don’t forget to send Pach an email with your state in the subject line so you can hook up with other FDLers for field trips and fun!
OfT: I pulled this off the WaPoo’s blog, but it’s from ThinkProgress. Shows how Rover leveraged Hiatt’s fiction for maximum effect.
“I know exactly why you published that editorial, Fred. From ThinkProgress …
White House Uses Washington Post Editorial To Defend Bush Leak
This weekend, the Washington Post wrote an editorial defending President Bush’s smearing of Joseph Wilson. The Post editors mangled the facts and failed to note — as their political writers did — that Bush deceptively leaked intelligence information despite knowing it had been disproved months before. (Read a thorough debunking of the editorial).
One might be tempted to dismiss the effect that a mere 575-word editorial can have on the public debate. But it is already being peddled peddled by the White House to misinform the public. Here’s the product of the White House’s efforts –
Kelly O’Donnell, NBC White House correspondent, this morning on MSNBC:
To further support the White House view that the president was simply acting within his legal authority — he is able to declassify material at any time — the White House today is circulating some favorable editorials saying what the president did was perfectly fine and they also say what was disclosed was historical in nature and that it had no harmful effect on national security.
Joseph diGenova, former Reagan administration lawyer, on NPR this morning:
I think the Washington Post said it best on Sunday when it said that Mr. Wilson was the one guilty of twisting the truth. In fact his report supported the conclusion that Iraq had sought uranium.
Scott McClellan, this afternoon in the White House press briefing:
[Bush] did authorize the declassification of the National Intelligence Estimate. I think you’ve seen editorials and other comments over the weekend talking about how that was important because it was in the public interest.
And slowly but surely, with an assist from the Washington Post, the White House attempts to turn a falsehood into conventional wisdom.
Posted by: | April 10, 2006 07:35 PM”
There are plenty of people who will pick apples for $100 per hour, probably a good number at $50 per hour. The illegals make a whole lot less, and we all get the benefit of lower prices because they do.
Karl Marx described the problem this way. Businesses require lots of inputs, coal, iron, freight haulers, and so on. In each case the capitalist wants the lowest price. With most inputs, there is another capitalist on the other side, trying to push up his prices. So, the steel mill wants cheap coke, and the coke maker wants high prices, and cheap steel. Push and push back.
But with labor, all the capitalists push for lower prices. No one worker can push back. Marx argues that the only limit on the level of wages is subsistence. This fits capitalist economics well. So long as there are plenty of workers, capitalists can and will drive down wages.
Today, illegals are the excess number of workers. So, I ask again, how many of us are willing to pay enough for lettuce to pay workers what it would cost to get a full American work force to pick lettuce?
Note that the excess profits from this free market approach tend teo flow to captial, especially under the current regime, which allocates productivity gains almost exclusively to capital.
So lets tighten the borders. Legalize all the undocumented workers
and their families here now. Integrate them into America. Enforce
the immigration laws and visa restrictions. Other countries do this.
Are we a nation of laws or what? Bring down this corrupt Republican
government ASAP. This immigration uprising is allowing Rove et all
to sow more fear into America. We need to fear less. We need to
find a way to give hope to peoples of other countries so they can
stay in thier land and make a better llife there as well. How about
the Catholic church and Bush co promoting birth control? How
about the world bank and imf really helping people rather than
running a capitalistic extortion regime. Just imagine an
American foreign policy of aid based on the social policies of a
Hugo Chavez!
More OfT on Fred Hiatt from the WaPoo blog:
“I just got into an argument with someone who was comparing this Washington Post Editorial, “A Good Leak” with Pravda’s coverage of the old Soviet Union. I left the debate by telling the other guy not to smear Pravda, by comparing them to the Post.
Posted by: Ron Russell | April 10, 2006 10:34 PM”
Squeaky Rat 56
It doesn’t matter when people came. The whole “can’t afford any more immigrants” idea goes back to the early 1800s at least. The same argument made today about Mexicans was made in the 1850s about the Irish. Legislators in Massachusetts were concerned about Boston filling up with dirty, indolent Irish. Some legislators wanted to build special asylums to incarcerate them.
Oh, and dyjek–there were plenty of illegal Irish then (along with other nationalities). Hell, there are plenty of illegal Irish now. Can you prove the legality of all your ancestors?
Blub, I fear that they will deport them all to Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran and wherever else to fight and then maybe they can gain legal status if they survive… what better outcome could bushco have, having the browns fighting the browns? (only partial snark)
siun, thanks for a great summary. I felt like I was sitting right there with you.
20% of the US Army is now Latino, half of them undocumented immigrants. The first US soldier to die in Iraq was a Guatemalan citizen.
Yes, Angie (#85), those people are oppressed. But what they need is justice, not a lousy job in the US.
Some people merely need to be educated
MICHAEL SAYS: 3. They do not register for selective service and do not serve in the military – forcing legal Americans to defend them.
ALISA SAYS: Sigh. According the U.S. government, all male immigrants – legal and otherwise – are required by U.S. law to register for selective service.
According to the National Center for Immigration Law, one in ten U.S. soliders who have DIED in Iraq have been immigrants. Five percent of those serving in our military are illegal immigrants.
The first soldier to die for the United States in the current war in Iraq was Marine Lance Cpl. Jose Gutierrez, an illegal immigrant from Guatemala.
He died for you.
You are not in Iraq fighting for anyone. You are home, sending lie-riddled missives to strangers at 3 a.m. on your computer.
Enough said.
Great job siun and the Illinois gang. You have done great work in collaborating in a short amount of time. These local cells of the Roots Project can really make a difference.
If you want to connect with FDL activists and readers in your state, send me an email at pachacutec01 at gmail dot com.
ONLY put your state in the subject line (not your city, or any other text).
Cheers!
Sam! How are you, haven’t seen you in too long. Do you lurk or are you returning.
And for God’s sake, man, tell us what Jake sees in his water bowl!!!
Thank you siun and Leslie for doing that! Sadly, you confirmed my fears about Obama, but y’all can challenge him, change him or run for office yourselves real soon! Kudos.
hilo nuevo – Digby !
Yes, thanks to both siun and leslie for their posts on Obama. It’s good to see more into these politicians than what you get from the usually uninsightful press coverage.
angie,
Cool. A cannon fodder exemption. Enlist and be regularized, if you live long enough. I wouldn’t be surprised. After all, the Japanese detainees at Manzanar and Poston were given that option.. you’re not loyal enough to farm in Modesto, but you’re more than welcome to fight and die in the European theater. I wouldn’t be surprised at all.
Did you see that Dana Rohrabacher (R-OCistan) is arguing that prisoners should be employed as forced farm slave labor in our country once we deport the “illegals” currently doing that job? After all, we have millions of them.
Why is it that every day I find more and more evidence that our country is becoming something I find utterly unbelievable.
Pach: I should point out, in DC, the event was attended by many immigrant groups, not just latinos.
And not only immigrants, but supporters, too! I was there, and my most recent immigrant ancestor was four generations back.
Pach – lovely post.
Siun/Leslie – thank you for the update.
OT – I EPU’d a timeline at the end of the Plubmers thread about some fo the Niger, Libby etc. info. fwiw.
Thanks siun, great writing and reporting, good detail. Did he really call the Iraq war “dopey”? What a lightweight.
I thought he did well with the DNC speech, but his follow=through in terms of energy and willingness to make a “differen”ce has not been all that impressive. He guested on the radio show Wait, Wait, Don’t Tell Me! and a comment was made that everyone needed a moment to collect themselves after the presence of that level of charm. I thought that was an interesting political comment.
Any other Wait, Wait fans out there?
Also, new thread.
great report siun! I’m glad I left the heavy lifting to you. you did yeoman’s job.
Hope your meeting this evening went well.
I feel the same, Blub and it hurts. ;( Yes, I saw and heard Dana spouting and cringed– and what is up with the new ultra haircut?
fix the comment section OR STOP THE MANIPULATION OF LEGITIMATE POSTINGS.THE SECOND PARAGRAPH IN COMMENT # 49 IS NOT MINE.THIS SITE WILL LOSE ALL CREDIBILITY.
I know we’re EPUd but …
Leslie – it was great to meet you and greet to expand the FDL actions. I can’t wait to do it again!
I missed my meeting tonight – wrong address had me walking all over the neighborhood for a few hours so I headed home but the meeting contines tomorrow pm at a place I know so I’m not giving up.
Dear Mr. Pach: I’m going to disagree with much of what you seem to advocate. Some disclosures: I am NOT a rascist, not do I hate Mexicans. I live down here in Texas, and have plenty of friends who are Mexican. [ oh, before anyone has a fit, the word “Mexicans” means they are…from Mexico! Make friends with a Mexican, he’ll proudly tell you he likes to be known by his country of ancestry/origin]
Anyways, a few disagreements-
1. Now, these folks DID come here illegally. “Way back when”, we had little or no immigration rules. Those folks flooding in came “legally”. But that was then, and this is now. I believe the advocates of a fair policy do a DISservice to their cause by hiding on the legal/illegal issue. But what to do with them???
2. I do NOT think it’s wise to round up all these folks, like some sort of Gestapo thing. Too much cost, too much trauma.
3. We DO need to secure our borders. Period. It’s not an anti-Mexican thing…it’s an anti-terrorist thing. The Mexicans coming across just want jobs, no more. But, along with them can come al queda types. They pay off a “Coyote” to lead them across the border, and to do general mayhem here stateside. Our borders need to be clamped down….big time.
4. “These illegal aliens are all decent tax paying folks”: oh really?? This seems to be a mantra…but, any empirical evidence? Any studies? Does “Jose” who cashes his weekly paycheck down at the local convenience store EVERY Friday….does he sit down in mid-April and file a 1040? Well?
5. Dylan sang “the times they are a changin’”…and I think this applies here. Some of my ancestors fled Ireland looong ago, as they were rebels, and the King of England posted “wanted dead or alive” posters for the clan…but they came here legally, as there just weren’t any immigration rules way back then! It’s different today…a new landscape. You may not like it…but that’s the way it is.
6. AFTER we shut down the borders, I yearn for a fair solution to this mess. Fair, and kind. I just don’t know what it is. The debate is good, we should have some more.
Those are just SOME of my thoughts on what is a VERY thorny issue. I mostly disagree with your theme Mr. Pach, but god bless for arguing the position!
*** Oh, alas, I’ll end on a down note. Sorry. BUT….#34, Mr. “immanentize”…”the Alamo was about language plurality”….WHAT??? Sorry, but that is C-R-A-P. I’m also a proud Texan. I suggest you study up on the issues surrounding the HEROIC stand of about 186 “Texicans” against 5000-10,000 Mexican soldiers. It was all about freedom, the freedom from tyranny. We still celebrate the day the Alamo fell. And God bless those brave men. “Language plurality”??? Harumph. Good day, Ghostman
Lose credibility? Dyjech, I don’t think that word means what you think it means. Enjoy your trexing.
Great post; I look at the young boy in the photo and wonder how much he will have contributed to a better America by the time he is my age (AARP member I am) & I, a veteran, welcome him
This is all such a mess and only if “We the people…” work together can the Gordian knot be unraveled; I know there are reasonable solutions (I won`t bore you with mine)
Oilfieldguy >”…The first soldier to die for the United States in the current war in Iraq was Marine Lance Cpl. Jose Gutierrez…”
Semper Fi Jose
“The bond of our common humanity is stronger than the divisiveness of our fears and prejudices.” – James Carter (yes, that one)
Ghostman: if you have not already done so, click through to the short presentation I link twice in that post. See what you think about a policy approach that manages security and justice.
If by “these people” you mean those attending the rallies, most have legal status.
Documented or undocumented, they have taxes taken from their paychecks, and pay taxes on their homes.
The law itself is perverted and unjust, designed to punish and impverish all working people. The pool of unprotected labor without rights harms the rest of the labor pool.
I love James Carter– that one… great man… greatest ex- President ever!
a good and relevant Obama comment – he noted that that paperwork at Ellis Island was not all on the up-and-up either!
Some of my relatives came through Ellis Island — one of them almost died from the illness she contracted there.
When my grandfather emigrated from Sweden, he changed his name from Rusk to Newlander to Johnson — because Rusk means steel in Swedish, and the name was given to his family by the Swedish military.
The beautiful thing about today is that these peaceful demonstrations are a strong message being sent that the immigrant community, their families and friends intend to help shape the future of immigration.
My ancestors fled Ireland during the potato famine, and I am lucky enough that America would have them. Some commenters have talked about how times have changed. Yes indeed they have, and times will change again – and the immigrants, friends, and families will have a significant voice in that change. All the better that the change will be done with respect and compassion.
I live on the border of LA/Orange Counties, about midway between Santa Ana and Los Angeles, and I chose to attend the Santa Ana demonstration today, thinking that the Orange County group could use some extra supporters.
We marched in front of the Federal Building for a half hour, then listened to various speeches for another half hour. Marchers were overwhelmingly Latinos, although I saw a Muslim couple and one Irish immigrant (she had labelled herself with a large, hand-written sign.)
All the Spanish language media were there, as well as BBC, but I was approached by a rather lonely looking Anglo TV news reporter, who was desperate for someone who looked like they spoke English. He asked why I was there and I said:
To express solidarity. I am the granddaughter of immigrants and my mothers’ family were strong labor union supporters, right back to the Knights of Labor. Also I want to protest against the hypocracy of our government’s immigration policy implementation. On the one hand, we make legal immigration difficult, while with the other we encourage corporate union busting and lowering of workers’ wages and benefits by turning a blind eye to the hiring of millions of undocumented workers who can be exploited because of their precarious legal status. And lastly, I want to say “thank you”, to the people who pick the fruits and vegetables, who kill and pluck the chickens, and work in the slaugher houses to feed me. And who care for my grandchildren, who “detail” my car, who put the roof on my house, who clear the tables and wash the dishes at my favorite restaurants. Those people who, for five dollars and hour, stoop in the hot sun, breathe pesticides and carcinogens, and endure the indignities heaped upon them by harsh bosses.
He looked rather surprised as I ranted on.
Oh, and many of the speakers were rallying support for the proposed boycott on May 1st. If it goes on as planned, SoCal could be brought to its knees.
Bless you Eclaire.
Here is a great set of photos of the Salt Lake City Dignity March.
http://oneutah.org/2006/04/09/…..h-history/
The “crackers” and the “niggers” were pitted against one another in the 19th and 20th centuries. Now it will be the immigrants pitted against the ever dwindling middle class. I guess the repugs have figured out that the gay issue is not as incendiary as it once was or needs to be to be of use. The repugs have been able to get the general population to vote against its own interest for many elections now. God, I hope folks wake up to the manipulation soon.
Funny how those who claim Irish ancestry tend to forget that their “rebel” ancestors were oppressed by the Crown linguistically and economically as much as politically, often with the tacit collaboration of the Church. “Dead or alive” posters? I doubt it. More likely they were simply lucky enough to scrape the money together to send one of the family to the new country, hoping he could send back money and maybe someday send for the rest of them.
It was not cheap or easy to book passage. Some got the funds by agreeing to serve in the Civil War in place of U.S. citizens. One of my Duffy ancestors met his end in that way, according to the now passed on generation back in County Monaghan.
The trotskyites obecame the neocons who took over the Republican Party. Now they’re back wanting to take over the Democratic Party.
Keep it up you Marxists. It is always you who bring
disaster to this world and you who are responsble for the Marxist Right who are now ruining this country.
This is a nation of laws, jughead. If you don’t like it, leave.
cleter #128, Well said! Beautiful delivery.
Didn’t he come in nicely though? Like a chin looking for a knuckle
Today was a moment in time like the march on Birmingham. We crossed a bridge, a lot of people were on it. We’re moving forward in unity and America will remain the place where dreams are for everyone.
Good Morning,
It really should be noted that Chairman Howard Dean warned us over a year ago the the repugs were going to use “immigration” as the wedge issue for this election cycle. As usual, the was right!!!
Cong rats Pachman. Si se and the rest. I was reminded that on a visit to Canuckstan that everything was labled in French as well as english eh. It struck me that this would be good place to learn French. Then I was deported but thats another story…what if everything was labled in SPANISH as well as english in Norte America?
What a great way to learn Spanish and as a side benefit maybe more people would learn more about the high point of all human evolution so far – the greatest revolution in all recorded hirstory – the Spanish revolution circa 1936. See ‘ Homage to Catalonia’ if you don’t believe me.
We are not calling for a protest or a demonstration. Our purpose is not to whine to the media about how awful the police are. Instead, we want to open up space for people that are directly affected by police brutality to express their anger and take action. We are not a charity, religious, or legal group trying to save the poor.
We are individuals who do not want to live under the clubs and watchful eyes of the cops, and we want to fight alongside those who feel the same way. We choose to organize independently from all political activist groups and parties, and encourage others to form affinity groups and initiate actions against police control.
The world will be saved – if it can be – only by the unsubmissive.
Hasta luego los solidario’s
I apparently EPU’d myself — didn’t see ilson’s “new thread comment” before I’d posteed in response to Digby.
Bionic –
In high school we had a visiting (female) student from South Africa. (She was only visiting for a few days rather than for a semester or the year. And it was 1985 and the particular class was Third-World Studies.)
At any rate, we discussed apartheid and she defendeded the policy by saying that “blacks in SA were not like blacks here [in the US].†IIRC, she actually said that they were “lazy†and “needed to be taken care of.â€
As I mentioned, it was third-world studies, and it was late in the term, so we’d read a bit on paternalism and racism and so forth. It was seriously strange to hear, almost verbatim, the words of a 19th-century anti-abolitionist come out of this 20th century 16-year-old’s mouth.
I remember a profound moment of disbelieving, silence after she finished taking. I think we were polite in our eventual responses — looking back, I’m trying to remember what it was that we did say. But it’s stuck with me because it was a) incredible to hear it said out loud and b) in retrospect, it’s what many racists mean but can’t say directly and c) at the time I really couldn’t conceive of anyone in the US being so stupidly, bigotedly, and blatantly racist.
(Sidenote — It’s incredible to me how much this country has backslipped. Granted, Regan was president at that time, and I wasn’t the most politically aware/active teen, but… Oy.)
Other random anecdote. I saw Derek Bell speak in college and it was the first time I’d heard this argument put forward:
The use of racist codes doesn’t just benefit the Republicans via the assurance to their base that everyone’s on the same team. It’s also a tactic by the haves to keep the have-nots divided against one another. Ie, if you inculcate a fear of scarcity into group X (say, whites) and convince them that they’ll be further disadvantaged by group Y (say, blacks) dipping into that same pool, then you can go on your merry way accruing most of the benefits to yourself and blame the shortfall on the second group.
This can work even if you change the ethnic component of the groups. With immmigration, you can not only use this fearmongering tactic to alarm your white base, you may be able to scare other ethnic groups (blacks, asians).
Divide and conquer, as they say.
!ztiF
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!drut
Checkitout! renseka (145 above) understands that Bionic “precogs” — in a way — the EPU’d Zone when he quotes Bionic as having said I apparently EPU’d myself — didn’t see ilson’s “new thread comment†before I’d posteed in response to Digby.
We just have to do something to make EPUing one’s self less messy.
EPU’d Zone may be where comment threads go to die, that may be true, but there’s no reason it has to be macabre or anything.
Eh? EPU’d Zoners.
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I would like to comment on the immigration issue. It’s fine with me if people would like to come to this country. However, I lived in the Mt. Pleasant area of Washington, DC for over 20 years and there was and still is a large number of people who are there illegally. My brand new car was vandalized and I saved for years to get it. I had to step over people who were drunk and laying on the sidewalks,trash not making it to the trash cans and many, many rats. I was sexually harrased in the morning by Latino men who were standing outside of the liquor store in the morning when I went to work and were standing there when I got home. Constant police sirens and arrests for public drinking. I was out of town and saw a police car that was on fire next to the apartment that I lived in. When I got home Mt. Pleasant was under curfew. All because a policeman arrested a drunken man and his friends ddin’t like it. A lot of the men don’t work say what you will about hard working but I saw it everyday for myself. I know a lot of the immigrants who are located in Virginia some are legal residents and some are illegal. They told me they have no intentions of getting a job or going back to where they come from and that they would prefer for their girl friends to have children and then they could stay because their children would then be citizens of the U.S. Black people have worked very hard for no pay for hundreds of years in this country, have been lynched, hosed down, bitten by dogs, bombed, family sold, and the like. Blacks are the only minority that didn’t ask to come to the great U.S.A. Haitians are being turned away by the boat load and that seems to be okay with everyone. I am curious to know if any of you live in the inner city and would like to live in a neighborhood like that? By the way, the rent in Mt. Pleaseant are anywhere from $900-1700 per month and utilities. I had to move away from the so-called hard working Latinos. People should enter this country through the proper channels.
Deen,
Mt. Pleasant, eh? Sounds like a name the Bush Administration would choose for such a place as you describe.
Are you in a better place now?
__
Deen: Interesting you would live in a bad neighborhood and then generalize your particular experience to a whole national class of people. I wonder what that might be about?
I live in a section of Alexandria colloquially called Chirilagua after a place in El Salvador. This is a neighborhoos of color: latinos and African Americans. I’ve dated undocumented people and they all worked their asses off, as did their familiy members, most of whom were here legally.
You’re making an hueristic attributional error, and the result is smelling a lot like ethnic prejudice.
I am so glad that we are allowing the Mexicans to take over our country. I can’t wait to live in Mexico North. I hope it is as wonderful as Mexico South. If only the other countries of the world could be as blessed by a never ending illegal flood of Mexicans like we are! Long live the illegals!
Deen: Interesting you would live in a bad neighborhood and then generalize your particular experience to a whole national class of people. I wonder what that might be about?
I live in a section of Alexandria colloquially called Chirilagua after a place in El Salvador. This is a neighborhoos of color: latinos and African Americans. I’ve dated undocumented people and they all worked their asses off, as did their familiy members, most of whom were here legally.
You’re making an hueristic attributional error, and the result is smelling a lot like ethnic prejudice.
Yeah, no truth if you say that neighborhoods teeming with illegals have gangs and higher crime rates. It’s only true if you say they are wonderful places to live. You must speak the allowed “truth” please. Most people can only take so much reality during their worship of illegal immigration. Of course their worship of illegal immigration should never be considered equal to their worship of legal immigration.
Let’s have it for more and more people piling into our cities!! Yeeeesssss!
Hooray for the Americanization of America! Si, se puede!!
The “rule of law†crowd seem to forget that the only people who can claim to not be immigrants in this country are currently living on reservations in the west, displaced by a bunch of white-skinned European immigrants.
Imagine that – 300 million people in this country and everyone except those of Native American descent immigrated here. That has to be the largest and most efficient immigration ever!
But you made a mistake. You are in favor of the Mexican takeover of America but you deride the European takeover of America. Why would a Mexican takeover be better? Is Mexico a better place to live than Europe?
And it goes without mentioning that when these people start banging on their “nation of laws†shtick, they seem to be blissfully unaware of their own chief executive’s flagrant and routine dismissal of the law when he finds it inconvenient to his political ends.
But he’s with you on this one buddy. You and George W. Bush both are of the same mind on a never ending flood of Mexicans – “Keep um coming!!!”
Good Morning,
It really should be noted that Chairman Howard Dean warned us over a year ago the the repugs were going to use “immigration†as the wedge issue for this election cycle. As usual, the was right!!!
Unfortunately the Republicans are right on this issue. And listen to this – more people in this country are against the illegals. That means if we are going to be a democracy the illegals gotta go. You are in favor of democracy aren’t you?
How many people in this forum understand that immigration hurts workers and helps corporations? If you don’t believe then ask yourself this – why are you and George W. Bush and his cronies both in favor of immigration?
Great post; I look at the young boy in the photo and wonder how much he will have contributed to a better America by the time he is my age (AARP member I am) & I, a veteran, welcome him
He will have helped us use more oil and energy, more water and trees, he will help fill in our landfills faster, and he will of course increase the pollution in America. He will help drive the price of land – and thus housing – ever higher. He will, in his own special way, contribute to the over-crowding in America.
Let’s all join in worshiping that little boy for what he brings to America.
I have attended many many demonstrations: a few were notable for the inclusive atmosphere, the peacefulness, the friendliness. Today’s Immigration Rally in Indianapolis was one of those. I just couldn’t help from smiling and grinning. I was taking quite a few photos: everybody waved a flag and smiled when they saw the lens was on them.
Good times all around.
And let’s be so thankful that the Spanish radio stations were so successful in getting those flags to be American and not Mexican!! We don’t want people to realize where their allegience really is!!
It seems to me that those illegal immigrants who have made an effort to learn the language should stay. And that should be the only test–not how long they have been here or how many children they have had in America.
Learning English does help eliminate one of the any ills caused by immigration. These people that learn it are worthy of our highest adoration and worship.
Everyone at that rally shouted that they wanted to learn English. It’s not so easy when you work 60 hour weeks.
By the second or third generation, these families are fully English fluent. Just as very immigrant group has been.
Something else – by the second or third generation they are no longer doing the work that gets our worship. So we need to make sure that we have a never-ending stream of illegals. It will get very crowded and expensive, but let’s not forget that someone’s grandfather immigrated here.
Rob:
Mt. Pleasant was a nice neighborhood 20 years ago. There was a nice mixture of peoples and cultures. I’m stating a fact. I am not unsympathetic to their situation. I work my you know what off too. Anyway, this whole situation is a mess. My question is why aren’t the hard working people in Georgetown and on Capitol Hill? Because you guys aren’t having it.
Here is a little mind-fucking fact for you language racists: One of the reasons that Texans fought for independence against Mexico was because the Mexican government required every transaction — like land sales — be done in Spanish. That’s right, the war of independence (the Alamo — remember?) was about language plurality.
The mexican government was wise to do so…if they had controlled the immigration of Yankees they would have kept Texas. Of course, in that event, it would be more screwed up than it is now.
As for the little heart-tugging story, well, many of my ancestors have been here so long that they are lost in the mists of time. They built this country, setting its basic framework long before the waves of immigration in the late 1800s. They made all the success of immigrants possible — you are free-riders on their hard work. An no, they were not immigrants. Immigrants move into an established society. They were, as Samuel Huntington has pointed out, settlers who fought and died to establish a new society. Its too bad they were foolish enough to let all these other people in.
The “rule of law†crowd seem to forget that the only people who can claim to not be immigrants in this country are currently living on reservations in the west, displaced by a bunch of white-skinned European immigrants.
What a load. My father’s family has been here since the early 1700s. My mother’s family has been here for at least five generations.
I’m not an immigrant. I’m a native.
Rob:
Mt. Pleasant was a nice neighborhood 20 years ago. There was a nice mixture of peoples and cultures. I’m stating a fact. I am not unsympathetic to their situation. I work my you know what off too. Anyway, this whole situation is a mess. My question is why aren’t the hard working people in Georgetown and on Capitol Hill? Because you guys aren’t having it.
Deen: – You should have addressed this to Pachacutec.
That’s because; Rob, You work and earn, they lie and Loot it from you, and make you fell good while they thrust guilt upon you until you capitulate: then we have total Anarchy.
Hard to argue that the moral and ethically corrupt, they have succeeded in the decline of Western Nations, It is now a question of when Western Civilizations fold over, and out of existence.
I am afraid that has happened, the upper etalons of elitist-sphere will not acknowledge the failure.
See folks your rebellious anti-racist progressive anti-corporate message is getting into the minds of the evil white capitalists who run corporate america. Ironic but true! Good work!
HiLLaRy 2008!
Corporate recruiters criticize UW-Madison’s lack of diversity
http://www.duluthsuperior.com/…..304041.htm
“In recent years, Alcoa, General Motors Corp. and a division of Proctor & Gamble Co. said the lack of diversity in the school’s College of Engineering is the reason they stopped recruiting there. Proctor & Gamble has since resumed but other corporations are threatening to look elsewhere unless the university increases its minority enrollment.”
“What a load. My father’s family has been here since the early 1700s. My mother’s family has been here for at least five generations.
I’m not an immigrant. I’m a native.”
And quite possibly the descendant of beneficiaries of countless broken treaties (ahem, law) with the real Natives. So much for a history of adherence to law as far as immigration goes. And how many of us ended up here as a result of some prison reform and housekeeping back in the “old country?”