fitz

looseheadprop says:

April 10th, 2006 at 6:35 am
Only 14 pages of the NIE we declassified. There is a link below which gives details. I am delibertly EPUing it here b/c the LGF thread is too long and we don’t have a freah thread. Feel free to repost this in a more appropriate place later in the day. This link relinks to original source material.

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/n...../index.htm

I hope I did this correctly.

Found this at the Washington Post blog:
Do you rent out op-ed space or just let Barbara Comstock have it for free?

I am interested in learning how to make up stuff and get it published on your editorial page.

Would you please publish your fee list and available discounts for Republican propoganda? Thank you very much.

Posted by: E. “Greg” Ious | April 10, 2006 09:41 AM

And feingold!!

“Do they think we are going to just swallow this bit of idiocy whole?” If ‘we’ means only the Republican base, then the answer is ‘yes’.

Coomet 2 is from the last fizt thread. I the link will get you original source material via click through.
I think we may be able to figure out what Fitz has got by camparing what was declassifed with what was leaked. No time to do that, Office hours start in 15 minutes, so I gotta hit the road, but will try to rpint out and look over when I get to the office.

As the Goddesses like to say: Drip Drip Drip.

“Malarky”?

What a delightful Irish-sounding word.

Is it something like “bullshit”?

Speaking of badwater and drip, drip, drip:

New product idea: bottled water called Halliburton Springs!

Morning Christy! So what did the Times do, borrow Fred Hiatt to come in and do a ghostwriter by-line hit piece since his other screed went over so believably well yesterday? ;)

Let’s see how Libby is going to throw Rover under the bus, in return.
This week should be interesting.
Bwaahhaa

gore/fiengold.

Yep!

The credulous press and the RWNM will broadcast the magic wand wave and associated “don’t blame me” incantation and the GOP base will have a talking-point to rally behind.

Just watch!

P.S. Can we get an initiative to send ‘Kool-Aid’ delivery to the WaPo editorial board? Like the GOP rubber stamp action.

All the changing spin out of the White House just makes one wonder, “what are they hiding?”

Of course, we know exactly what they’re hiding.

New article by Jason Leopold over at Truthout. Bush was briefed by Cheney (”I don’t know Joe Wilson”) on Plame. http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/041006Z.shtml

OT–sorry, but I have to get this off my chest.

I’ve never bought the idea that outing Plame was an attempt to smear Joe Wilson. I understand the Rovian playbook of emasculating the target, but they could have gone the easier route of “he was stoned during the entire 60s” (Wilson has not denied the occasional youthful indulgence), his several marriages, or something else.

No, outing Plame was their two-fer.

Via Sy Hersh, we know the administration is considering a pre-emptive nuclear strike on Iran, because of its purported desire to obtain WMDs. Most experts believe they are five years away. The biggest impediment to an old-school (Iraqi) dis-information campaign about Iran being close to having nuclear capabilities would be Valerie Wilson and the brass-plate counter-proliferation company she worked with; all burned years ago.

Can somebody enlighten me as to Project for a New American Century’s plan? Has it always been “regime change” for the entire Middle East? Doesn’t it make sense that the administration had plans on Iran (as well as Iraq) prior to 9/11, and outed Plame & Co. to obviate future wrangling with the intelligence community over things like yellowcake or aluminum tubing?

Did he or din’t he, would he or wooden’t he, could he or couldn’t he, should he or shouldn’t he, will’e or won’t he? Split hairs,who cares?
So it goes, the never ending bait and rebait and debait about what transaction transpired to titallate the torpid tantallizing tall tale tellers of hizoner’s proud rain or reign of dumpin horse pucky ‘pon a nation of sheep.

morning, redd! did you see this? fitz’s own words on declassification dates.

i’m not sure what it could mean, but i hope it has value.

If they keep setting up, we have to keep knocking them down. This latest story has all the conviction of Jon Lovitz saying “yeah, that’s the ticket!”

When things are declassified, they must be classified for a reason, just like things must be classified for a reason. “Because I say so” isn’t sufficient.

Heres another angle from Greg Palast…..

Bush and Cheney knowingly withheld vital information from a grand jury investigation, a multimillion dollar inquiry the perps themselves authorized. That’s akin to calling in a false fire alarm or calling the cops for a burglary that never happened — but far, far worse. Let’s not forget that in the hunt for the perpetrator of this non-crime, reporter Judith Miller went to jail.

Think about that. While Miller sat in a prison cell, Bush and Cheney were laughing their sick heads off, knowing the grand jury testimony, the special prosecutor’s subpoenas and the FBI’s terrorizing newsrooms were nothing but fake props in Bush’s elaborate charade, Cheney’s Big Con.

On February 10, 2004, our not-so-dumb-as-he-sounds President stated, “Listen, I know of nobody — I don’t know of anybody in my administration who leaked classified information. If somebody did leak classified information, I’d like to know it, and we’ll take the appropriate action. And this investigation is a good thing. …And if people have got solid information, please come forward with it.”

Tommy Yum (15)-

Go read Citizenspook. His thinking is along the same lines.

Isn’t it possible that what they’re doing here is trying to innoculate Bush from prosecution?

IOW, as long as Bush didn’t specifically order Cheney and Libby to do what they did, it provides some semblance of a firewall?

The administration (Republicans in general, really) have a habit of using the “shotgun” approach to excuses: “I couldn’t have done it because I wasn’t there, and if I was there, I didn’t know about it, and if I did know about it, it was so-and-so instead of me, and if was me, it was a good thing to do.”

They float one trial balloon after another till they find one that gains some traction. Then everyone gets “on message” and they get the Wurlitzer cranked up.

Unfortunately for them, I think people are starting to catch on to the MO. It really is shameless, not to mention discouraging that it has worked for so long.

Thanks, mc. Please post a link.

if this goes according to this interview, they are in the process of throwing cheney under the bus

they are blaming scooter and they are blaming his walking orders and they are claiming they knew nothing about these walking orders

In many ways, one has to attempt to disengage from the spin in order to try to think clearly.
For example, does anyone believe that the WMD fears drove the invasion, or is it clear that fears of WMD’s were used to sell the invasion? Maybe some folks still think that the fears of WMD’s were well-founded, and that that was a good enough reason to invade, but that does not negate the simple fact that WMD fears were used by the administration to sell the invasion. Who declassified what, or leaked it to whom, or authorized the leak, or crapped in their pants, is really not the issue, is it? As Joe Wilson explained, if the President wants to make his point to the American people, he can release his own testimony, and he can release the briefings that he had about techniques such as the “fake UN plane” that were considered to spark the invasion. He can order Doug Feith to come before the American people and explain everything that happened in the Office of Special Plans. He stand up in a room with Colin Powell, Donald Rumsfeld, Tony Zinni, Tommy Franks, and a few of the rest of them and have a little “sunshine” game. Scotty McLellan and Bill Kristol can just sit the fuck down. The American people are not idiots. If the president wants to come forward and make a legitimate case for us to trust a single word out of his mouth, then I am all ears. I have been listening, and I ain’t heard nuthin’ yet!!
I put my name on my posts so anyone can look me up if they want to discuss it. I live in Silver Spring, MD.
peace,
jim

Bush’s Republican base won’t just “swallow this whole”….they like to have some of it squirted onto their face before they swallow. Bread and circuses, you know…

GW Bush’s Goldfinger strategy.

I think the comparison between GW Bush and Goldfinger is an interesting meme.

Just think of what Goldfinger’s motivation was:

He intended to make the gold in Fort Knox radioactive to increase the value of all the other gold that he himself owned.

Nuking parts of the middle east would, likewise, make those who own non-middle east oil and un-nuked middle east oil wealthy beyond imagination (while everyone else becomes poor beyond belief).

Just wanted to call attention to Christy’s reference to the Kristoff article that used Wilson as an anonymous source. Today’s spin out of the WH seems to be an attempt, at least in part, to push back the discussions of NIE declassification to before the Wilson NYT op-ed. I think they’re trying to minimize the connection of Bush to the “concerted” push-back against Wilson, potentially a more serious hint from Fitz than the NIE leak itself.

I vote for this reason…” Because he was bored with reading them himself and decided the kitchen staff needed a lecture series? “

Redd you are in rare form this mornin! LMAO

Tommy Yum (23)-

http://citizenspook.blogspot.com/

Some of what CS says makes sense, other stuff, not so much. It is compelling, though.

re: “intended to suggest that Mr. Bush might have played only a peripheral role in the release of the classified material and was uninformed about the specifics”

it’s the old “hands-off manager” defense, as in: “ronnie was busy watching t.v., iran-contra was all poindexter’s fault.”

Bush knew Valerie Plame was both Joe Wilson’s wife and a covert CIA agent in June 2003. Check it out.

Thanks mc!

Tommy Yum..

“Can somebody enlighten me as to Project for a New American Century’s plan? Has it always been “regime change†for the entire Middle East? Doesn’t it make sense that the administration had plans on Iran (as well as Iraq) prior to 9/11, and outed Plame & Co. to obviate future wrangling with the intelligence community over things like yellowcake or aluminum tubing?”

Most of us here know the horror that is PNAC…

to catch you up a bit..

http://www.newamericancentury.org/

Yes, their stated goal is Global Domination for their multinational corporations’ benefit…

They are WAY OVER-REACHING our newly achieved status as the world’s only super power..

You really should look at this stuff, before it’s too late..

Can someone remind me again why Judith Miller went to jail? For refusing to talk about who gave her information which was apparently de-classified, right? Doesn’t de-classified pretty much meant that it’s in the public domain? So she went to jail for refusing to name the person who mentioned information theoretically no more hidden than a report from the Dept of Agriculture? Right.

I’m sure that she’s delighted (not that I care) that the admin failed to point out their de-classification until well after she’d done all that time in the can.

Friends indeed.

holden’s not only right, but he does good work too.

i’ve never had any doubt at all that bush knew all along. why people could believe that he didn’t is what amazes me.

If you follow their position (that the prez has authority to instantly declassify) then it would follow that he has the authority to blow the cover of a CIA NOC. She is after all an empoyee of the executive branch, and the prez is the head of that branch.

I overheard a conversation in the grocery story yesterday wherein Bush was referred to as the “imperial leaker.”

I believe the scales have fallen from the eyes of most of the public. (See polling data).

Does anyone have a link to any post-leak revelation polling of Bush’s JAR?

I’m hoping to see 29% soon.

OT but important:
TO northern Illinois FDLers: Barak Obama is holding townhall meetings this week.

Today:
Chicago Lake Shore Town Hall Meeting with Senator Obama
Date: Monday, April 10
Time: 2:00 PM CT
Place: Loyola Lake Shore Campus, Joseph Gentile Center
6525 N. Sheridan Road
Chicago, IL

Wednesday:
Elmhurst Town Hall Meeting with Senator Obama
Date: Wednesday, April 12
Time: 10:30 AM CT
Place: York High School
355 West St. Charles Road
Elmhurst, IL

Date: Wednesday, April 12
Time: 12:45 PM CT
Place: Westchester Middle School
10900 Canterbury Street
Westchester, IL

Friday he will speak (not a Townhall meeting):
Date: Friday, April 14
Time: 8:00 PM CT
Place: Principia College, Cox Auditorium
1 Maybeck Place
Elsah, IL 62028

oops, shoulda read #19 first. Great minds and all….

Once again, OT in the narrow sense, but not otherwise:

Marine Lt. Gen. Greg Newbold, who headed up the Operations section of the Joint Staff during the first two years of the Bush 43 administration, internally opposed the plan to invade Iraq. Realizing he was fighting a losing battle, he took retirement in October, 2002, but did not then make his objections public. Now he does, in the pages of this week’s Time Magazine.

http://www.time.com/time/magaz.....29,00.html

One of the most troubling kinds of fallout of the Bush-Cheney national security mismanagement damage it does to the military-civilian relationship. I don’t think most Amreicans realize how truly blessed we are in the fact that military subordination to civilian leadership is so deeply ingrained in our history and traditions. The military makes its case to the civilian leaders but when those leaders decide on a course of action the generals and admirals salute, say “Yes Sir”, and try carry out those orders to the best of their abilities. Sometimes they’ve acocmplished the mission better than others, but with few exceptions (e.g. MacArthur in Korea) the brass hats have seldom gone beyond those boundaries.

This behavior is based on the fundamental assumption that those leaders are basing their judgments on the facts as they genuinely try to know them, and good faith analyses of those facts to the best of their abilities. But what is a senior officer to do when he or she genuinely believes that policy choices are being made on the basis of delusions or even malfeasance? Clearly, General Newbold felt he was in that position. Some might condemn him for not going public as soon as he left the service. But probably having been a junior officer in combat in Vietnam (Guessing here; I don’t know the particulars of his bio) he probably kept silent in the interestes of not undermining the morale of soldiers and Marines who he knew would be going into combat regardless.

According to Sy Hersh’s recent piece in The New Yorker several senior officers are nearing the point of throwing their stars down on Rumsfeld’s desk over the direction of Iran war plans. If they do, they too will be faced with the Hobson’s choice faced 3 1/2 years ago by Gen. Newbold. If senior officers en masse begin publically challenging our political leadership while still in uniform or immediately after shedding it, we will have endured a great loss. And the blame for that loss will lay on the feet of an incompetent, mendacious, malfeasant and delusional administration.

…and the Joker turned to Batman and said, “but it was the Penguin that squawked!”

I agree with Tommy Yum that the outing of Plame was a twofer, but I’ve always viewed the second part of the twofer as an attempt to punish and intimidate the CIA folks into staying quiet.

Well, make it a ‘threefer,’ Tom!

NUKE IRAN?

OUR PRESIDENT IS A MADMAN. DID ANYONE CATCH SEYMOUR HERSH YESTERDAY ON CNN?

The third or fourth word of his interview was “MESSIANIC” — that Bush sees himself that way; that he has to “solve” the iran problem, that neither party has the balls to do it, only he has the courage…

I think he wants to end the world because of his cracked vision of “end times” and all that fundy crap.

The only good thing I heard in the interview was that some top military leaders are finally finding and installing their testicles and considering quitting in protest if BUSH doesn’t take the Nuke option off the table. Hersh said they refused to take it off the war plans.

I gotta ask: doesn’t nuking another country fit into the category of “unfitness” or “incapacity” to hold office? I actually dusted off the 25th Amendment last night and gave it a quick read.

Doesn’t nuking another country based on your cracked religious vision (he talks to God, remember?”) make someone unfit for office? Incapacitated due to CRAZINESS?

I’m just asking….

But can both he and Cheney be removed under the 25th Amendment? Maybe Bush for craziness and Cheney for war crimes? We could be looking at President Hastert by June.

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/.....417fa_fact

Long commentary - well worth reading:

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/041006P.shtml

Final Jeopardy
By Elizabeth de la Vega
TomDispatch.com
Sunday 09 April 2006

Asking the right question about the president’s involvement in the CIA leak affair.

(snip)

Libby’s account raises too many issues to address, not the least of which is that he had already spoken to Washington Post reporter Bob Woodward about the still-classified NIE in June. Two other key issues, however, relate to the information Libby was instructed to disclose. First, the NIE Key Judgments did not say that the Iraqis were “vigorously trying to procure” uranium from Africa. They said nothing whatsoever about uranium procurements. The body of the NIE included some vague assertions about such procurement efforts, but even those had been repudiated by the CIA in October 2002. In addition, as President Bush, Vice President Cheney, and Lewis Libby all knew, the documents supporting the assertions had been proved to be forgeries by both U.S. intelligence agencies and the International Atomic Energy Agency. In other words, it is clear that this secret disclosure of unilaterally declassified material from the NIE. was at best seriously misleading, if not entirely false.

That the contents of another disclosed document had been written by Joseph Wilson, as Libby told Miller, was equally false and no less misleading, because Wilson did not write any report whatsoever after his trip to Niger. He orally reported his findings to the CIA.

Scott McClellan now says that this declassification and instantaneous disclosure was prompted by the public interest in contributing to the understanding of an ongoing debate. We know that is not true.

After all, before the war, the existence of a crucial debate about whether pre-war intelligence justified an invasion of Iraq was not considered sufficient cause to impel President Bush to decide to declassify the NIE. After the war, when no weapons of mass destruction were being found, the existence of debate about pre-war intelligence did not impel Bush to declassify the NIE. Even today, most of the NIE, including the one-page President’s Summary, is not declassified.

We now have sufficient information to frame the Final Jeopardy! question. This is it:

Is a President, on the eve of his reelection campaign, legally entitled to ward off political embarrassment and conceal past failures in t?e exercise of his office by unilaterally and informally declassifying selected - as well as false and misleading - portions of a classified National Intelligence Estimate that he has previously refused to declassify, in order to cause such information to be secretly disclosed under false pretenses in the name of a “former Hill staffer” to a single reporter, intending that reporter to publish such false and misleading information in a prominent national newspaper?

The answer is obvious: No. Such a misuse of authority is the very essence of a criminal conspiracy to defraud the United States. It is also precisely the abuse of executive power that led to the impeachment of Richard M. Nixon.

I put this up earlier, but it’s a hell of a piece by Jay Rosen at Press Think:

Murray Waas is Our Woodward Now
“Not only is Woodward not in the hunt, but he is slowly turning into the hunted. Part of what remains to be uncovered is how Woodward was played by the Bush team, and what they thought they were doing by leaking to him, as well as what he did with the dubious information he got.”

I agree the outing of Joe Wilson was more than punishment and/or a warning to other CIAs that might want to talk.
The notion that Valerie Plame was the one who could put the kabosh on hitting Iran (part of the original axis of evil) and stopping her maked imminent sense.
I hate these people. I want them impeached and imprisoned.

The second-to-the-last option of a cornered president: throw everyone else under the bus. (This before you create a National Crisis and declare some sort of martial law…)

Wouldn’t you continue to lie your ass off in this situation? For the last, oh, five years (longer if you include campaign) this bunch of gangsters have been lying about every single thing, and America and the Press just shrug their collective shoulders and say, “oh, well, OK I guess” and turn away. They get away with everything! Why would they think that the combination of assumptive power, bullying behavior, swifting-boating lies about any critics, and bold-faced lies about the matter at hand produce a different result? Hey, it’s worked so far!

So the Nixon defense (”it’s not a leak if the President does it) has given way to the King Henry II defense (All I said was “Will no one rid me of this meddlsome ambassador”).

Weaker and weaker…

I can’t believe it has come down to this again: “what did the President know and when did he know it?”

Crimminy, even Arlen wants to know.

Sadly, in coastal North Carolina, this is seen as politics as usual–no big deal. When they say it’s not a “smokong gun” they are literal. Cheney was wrong when he shot the guy in the face because its always the shooters fault. Until Bushie says I broke the law, he didnt.
These are the same people who are both patriotic and worship the Civil War. They also still bring up the “blow job” as evidense that Democrats have no values. Maybe the 50 state strategy is a waste of resources.

Stephen Parrish - one problem with the description is that the declassification happened not prior to a reelection campaign specifically. Rather, the declassification happened prior to a war and the declassification was part of the effort to mislead the country into the war. So it is even worse.

.

The hell with censure, maybe we should be getting after our Dem leaders about this: Note the line that there is “no pressure” from Congress not to attack Iran.

I think he wants to do it so we’ll be at war, again, for the Fall elections.

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/.....417fa_fact

The House member said that no one in the meetings “is really objecting†to the talk of war. “The people they’re briefing are the same ones who led the charge on Iraq. At most, questions are raised: How are you going to hit all the sites at once? How are you going to get deep enough?†(Iran is building facilities underground.) “There’s no pressure from Congress†not to take military action, the House member added. “The only political pressure is from the guys who want to do it.†Speaking of President Bush, the House member said, “The most worrisome thing is that this guy has a messianic vision.â€

I think the easiest question for Dems to ask is, if Bush “declassified” this information, why didn’t he just boldly state that three years ago?

And why the missing emails?

And why Libby’s faulty memory?

And why, and why, and why?

Sorry, here’s that link to Press Think:

http://journalism.nyu.edu/pubz.....s_now.html

Mel,

It is because of people like you and me (I live in Chatham county) that the 50-state strategy is imperative. Don’t despair; Charlotte’s already turned blue–well, is on the way–and I never thought I’d see it. NC is a hell of a lot more purple than red.

I know you live “down east,” but take heart.

jayt and Larry have pointed out that Judith Miller went to jail to protect a source who leaked to her classified information that wasn’t really classified.

Maybe somebody should ask Bill Keller about this:
——
Talk to the Newsroom
Bill Keller, executive editor of The Times, will answer questions in this space about the newspaper and the news. Questions will be selected from e-mails sent to asktheeditors@nytimes.com, and Mr. Keller will answer as many this week as time permits. Afterward, these discussions will continue with other Times editors.
——–

http://www.nytimes.com/ref/bus.....itors.html

attack at 21 -
“as long as Bush didn’t specifically order Cheney and Libby to do what they did, it provides some semblance of a firewall?”

I think more interesting is that if Bush says he didn’t order the release, he’s just thrown both Chaney and Libby under the bus. I don’t think there is enough firewall there to save him.

I really wonder what the conversation between Fitz and Bush’s lawyer just before the Libby indictment contained. The statements made at that time when compared to what has been said since might make very interesting reading…

I still don’t understand why Cheney needed Bush at all if he had the power to declassify per the March, 2003 Executive Order. Did Cheney throw Bush into the mix without actually consulting him because he was having trouble convincing Libby to start blabbing, and thought invoking Bush’s name would get Libby moving? If you believe Libby’s testimony, this drive-by declassification was something he had never seen before, and he was uncomfortable enough that he went to Addington (who was clearly on board). Did Cheney so believe in his own power and invincibility that he never believed that anyone would ever know the underlying details of how this information made its way into the public domain? He must have been livid when Judy Miller failed to write anything about what Libby told her.

What really cracks me up is that these people went to this much trouble to release only the information in the NIE that was wrong, and for which there was a trail of information to prove that it was wrong. How desperate do you have to be that you think using false information to support false premises would equal a righteous war?

So, either Libby lied when he said Cheney told him that Bush okay’d the declassification, or Cheney lied when he said that Bush had given the OK. Since these people seem to lie with the ease of sociopaths, it’s kind of hard to believe that any of them even know whether they themselves are telling the truth.

But for Bush to have told Cheney to “get it out there†and for the White House to now claim they never meant Libby should talk to reporters is laughable. They are all so caught up in their own lies, and apparently unable to track what lies were told to whom, and it’s finally coming back to haunt them. Too bad, so sad.

We’ve taken our eyes off the ball. There are two distinct issues here: (1) the secret declassification of classified information, and (2) the outing of the CIA agent. If all Our Beloved Leader did was secretly declassify classified information, then any ambiguity in a criminal prosecution runs in his favor and he’s not guilty. But if Our Beloved Leader is an accessory before the fact in the outing of a CIA agent, he violated a statute and he’s guilty. It looks like Scooter very carefully stopped short.

he lack of reliable intelligence leaves military planners, given the goal of totally destroying the sites, little choice but to consider the use of tactical nuclear weapons. “Every other option, in the view of the nuclear weaponeers, would leave a gap,†the former senior intelligence official said. “ ‘Decisive’ is the key word of the Air Force’s planning. It’s a tough decision. But we made it in Japan.â€

“Because he was bored with reading them himself and decided the kitchen staff needed a lecture series?”

LOL Oh man that is rich. You need humor in these crazy-ass times.

Could someone please tell me what JAR means?
I’ve read it here and elsewhere, but I am an initial short for what I think it means.

Thanks,
Leslie

p.s. If this is duplicated anywhere else in the comments, it’s because comcast had an interruption in service - or they interrupted my service. Don’t know which…

calvin says, “For those who believe the Prez played no role in the leaking, maybe you’ll believe that next year, calvin will win the Masters.”

JAR = Job Approval Rating

#47 Gyro Gear Lose ~

I think we can add Seymour Hersh to that “new Woodward”. They have both been wonderful. I’m surprised they are both still alive.

Anne~
Thank you. It all makes sense now.

puleeze. Bush is an empty suit (just ask Paul O’Neill). Cheney got Bush to agree to declassify part of the NIE or just said Bush agreed (who’s going to argue?). The Libby campaign to discredit Joe Wilson (a “threefer”) is another example of Cheney-in-Charge. Any subsequent explanations from Bush will sound empty because he’s empty! All motives and methods should be examined with the Cheney-in-Charge model in mind.

Thaumaturgist (love the name!) @ 62:

I think ol’ Fitz is only slowly ‘boiling the frog’ by gradually releasing damaging information. Now it’s only the selective leak of the NIE; but (to me at least) the national conversation draws inexorably nearer to Plame’s outing.

If he’s half the prosecutor I think he is, he’s building a solid foundation, brick by implacable brick.

Just also asking:

Wasn’t one of the illegal things Nixon did was secretly invade Cambodia (ultimately destablizing that country, BTW, leading to the killing fields)?

Isn’t secretly invading Iran with troops as the Hersh article discusses — isn’t that a secret, illegal war and a war crime to boot?

Hersh says the military is justifying it by claiming that preparing for a war is “force protection” and a military, not intelligence gathering mission. Therefore, not subject to Congressional oversight. This seems pretty weak to me.

De-lurking: was it sufficient for His Majesty to merely ask “Who will rid me of this troublesome couple?” and his minions all thought they got the hint?

Not that I’m drawing parallels or anything, but they say Hitler’s directives were often vague on a purpose, and his followers out-did each other in creative interpretation, which usually meant free-abuse-for-all…

Greetings from a concerned European…

I mean to ask: that wasn’t invading Cambodia one of the charges for Nixon’s impending impeachment?

chicago tom~
Why don’t you think of going to the Obama townhall meeting today? I’m going to try to be there. Somebody has to ask questions re: censure as well as the Iran threat. It’s at 2:oo, but the doors open at 1:15.

See my earlier post #39.

Maybe the lawyers can answer this one, but isn’t there an element of conspiracy law that will make this new defense irrelevant? If my years of watching Law & Order are worth anything, I know that one hand does not have to know what the other is doing for everyone involved to be guilty of a crime. If this new defense is to be believed, it means Bush handed Cheney a loaded gun and said “take care of this”. Once again someone got shot in the face. Bush’s failure to make sure Cheney was qualified to carry and use the gun puts him in the middle of the crime.

the boxed entry within the entry starting “Moreover, the disclosure…” …. who is this attributable to ?

Tommy Yum (15) — if you want to truly understand the driving forces behind the PNAC and its neo-conservative membership, you really need to read the PNAC white paper, “Rebuilding America’s Defenses” (think you can find a link to it at Wikipedia under PNAC). This paper is a brain dump, a Vulcan mind-meld with the PNAC. Note from the PNAC’s website, thought, that George W. Bush and Condi Rice are not signatories to the original “manifesto”; they clearly operate from the PNAC playbook, though. There is a strong overlap between the PNAC and AIPAC, as well. It may do you well to read more about AIPAC since many of their interests are served by PNAC. Also note that the PNAC’s parent organization, New Citizenship Project (NCP), was once chaired by John McCain.

Brings to mind The Who’s “Won’t Get Fooled Again”…

Mighty Mouse says:
April 10th, 2006 at 7:44 am

jayt and Larry have pointed out that Judith Miller went to jail to protect a source who leaked to her classified information that wasn’t really classified.

I’m thinking the de-classification was classfied….

The explanation offered Sunday left open several questions, including when Mr. Bush acted and whether he did so on the advice or at the request of Mr. Cheney.

Here’s a piece of advice for our journalist friends at the NYT. Try asking these questions. If you’re having trouble remembering, a mnemonic I think I heard once that there are generally five of these “W” type questions, along with the occasional “H”. Let your sources know you need answers to these questions or their story doesn’t get published. Then don’t publish it so they know you mean it.

Perhaps fewer questions will get “left open” this way. Nice use of the passive voice there, by the way, as if it’s not your fault…

George “Col. Jessep” Bush: You want answers?

America (Kaffee): I think I’m entitled to them.

George “Col. Jessep” Bush: You want answers?

America (Kaffee): I want the truth!

George “Col. Jessep” Bush: You can’t handle the truth! Sons and daughters, we live in a world that has terrorists. And those terrorists have to be hunted down by men with guns regardless of the facts. Who’s gonna do it? You? The UN? France? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Iraq and the $400 billion of your money I pissed into the wind and you curse Cheney; evil prick that he is. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I don’t know either (remember, I don’t read): that the Iraq War, while fraudulently foisted upon you and the world, probably saved lives; well, maybe saved lives but that’s not the point. ( … anyway, where was I, oh yeah … ) and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives (LOL) …You don’t want the truth. Because deep down, in places you don’t talk about at lobbyist-hosted fundraising parties, you want me to make these ignorant and asinine decisions. In my White House we use words like honor, code and loyalty to describe our illegal activities and asinine decisions…we use these words as the backbone to an effort spent deceitfully governing this country. You use ‘em as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to you, America, you who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide by leaking classified information to support my failed decision making process, then questions the manner in which I provide it! I’d rather you just said thank you and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you be careful the next time you pick up your phone because you never know who will be listening. Either way, I don’t give a damn what you think you’re entitled to!

America (Kaffee): Did you order the leak of Plame’s name?

George “Col. Jessep” Bush: (quietly) I did the job you sent me to do.

America (Kaffee): Did you order the leak of Plame’s name ?!?

George “Col. Jessep” Bush: You’re goddamn right I did!!

America (Kaffee): Careful, Jesus is listening and Robertson and Falwell too — watch your language asshole. Now go to Hell and take Cheney, Rummy and Rice with you!

Thank you, Rayne (78). I might wait to read until I’m having low blood-pressure problems. The wife gets upset when I start crying blood.

Tommy Yum - Agreed. I don’t think Scooter necessarily “stopped short” in revealing what disclosures were authorized by Bush.

Libby may very well have revealed that Bush authorized the declassification of (i) the NIE AND (ii) the outing of Valerie Plam.

The fact that item (ii) is a more serious offense may have led Fitzgerald to keep this information under wraps for now.

The Bush administration has to be wondering whether Scooter “stopped short” or whether Fitz is simply keeping his powder dry.

W on live now - speaking at Johns Hopkins - very surreal performance. Just said “we do not want the Iranians to have nuclear weapons, to be planning nuclear weapons or the knowledge to make nuclear weapons.
He goes on to say again “I should emphasize we not only do not want them to have nuclear weapons, but the knowledge.”

Then states that “what you are reading in the newspapers this weekend is wild speculation, wild speculation!”

It’s like watching a little kid allowed to play with the grownups - he is hyper and over-animated.

Just got a question about bringing military contractors under the law.

I’m still waiting for someone to give an expert opinion on this. I don’t think Bush can legally declassify secret CIA documents.

Chicago Tom 72–this is an important point that should be brought up with anyone in town hall meetings. “Force protection” or otherwise, if these teams get caught, it’s an act of war against Iran. These operations run the risk of starting a war we’ll have to bleed and pay for, and any action with such consequences surely needs to be discussed first with the American people.

Chicago Tom # 72

was just revisiting some of this material this morning - A young Sy Hersh was making his bones on this - as was a Brit author: Wm. Shawcross (Sideshow) who, ironically like Woodward has now joined the apologia caravan and was one of the loudest drumbangers for invading Iraq

Will someone puleeze get Coach Cheney a new playbook ?!?!?

Operation Menu
In 1969, newly elected President Richard M. Nixon, aiming to achieve “peace with honor” in Vietnam, began to put his “Vietnamization” policy into place - removing the number of American military personnel in the country and transferring combat roles to the South Vietnamese.

But at the same time, Nixon resumed the secret bombing of North Vietnam and launched B-52 bombing raids over Cambodia, intending to wipe out NLF and North Vietnamese base camps along the border.

The intensive secret bombing, codenamed Operation Menu, lasted for four years and was intentionally concealed from the American public; meanwhile, Nixon ordered the invasion of Cambodia by United States troops, arguing that it was necessary to protect the security of American units.

This invasion into an allegedly neutral country was cause for much protest in the States, especially on college campuses such as Kent State University, where students rioted and held walk-outs. Ultimately, the secret bombing of neutral Cambodia was deliberately conducted without the consent of Congress, violating the articles outlined in the United States Constitution, and would have been grounds for impeachment had Nixon not resigned under the cloud of the Watergate scandal in August of 1974.

Anne~
I follow your logic (#61) but also think that Cheney wanted to cover his ass as badly as the next thug in this enterprise. Isn’t it just possible that he asked Bush what he thought of the plan - to get the info out - and Bush said “get it out there”? Then everyone is covered. Just as long as Bush had declassified the NIE - or at least the parts that supported the invasion - they could use this defense.

Have I said I hate these people and I want them impeached and imprisoned?

Bush is clueless– some young lady just asked him what laws govern civilian contractors in Iraq. He does not know and says he will call rummy and find out and giggled like a child.

W: “I knew exactly what was going to happen when I committed troops in this way.”

How much you wanna bet those SOBs will use the AUMF as authorization for war against Iran.

I mean, we’ll create legion new terrorists when we nuke Iran, and the AUMF gives us the authority to go after terrorists. What’s the problem?

The good news is that chimpy says he knew exactly what would happen if he committed troops to Iraq…

Holden Caulfield at #32 — That new pony of yours (as see on Atrios’ site) is truly the best yet.

Question on Plame–

I declassified the NIE for a reason– I wanted people to see the truth. As far as the rest of the case, we will just have to wait for Mr. Fitzgerald to finish.

xyz (83) — I vote for dry powder. Why all the hiding of emails? what’s in the emails? what’s in the 1400 or so pages of Libby’s notes?

Powder. Dry. All of it.

78 Rayne says:
April 10th, 2006 at 8:02 am

When I have more time after April 17, I would like to look at the form 990s filed for AIPAC and PNAC. Some weeks ago, someone here posted a link to a Web site where those publicly available forms are available for view after registering - http://www.guidestar.org/

If time permits before April 17, I will visit that Web site and see what I can find out.

This new trial balloon is eerily similar to the Ken Lay defense: disconnected CEO surrounded by evil underlings who hatched a plot the CEO was totally clueless about.

The buck doesn’t stop at the desk in the Oval Office; in this shell game, there is no buck.

———————
Had enough?
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going OT, but if this isn’t taken care of then none of what we’re talking about matters: election officials INDICTED in OH for messing with the recount. also: blackwell “accidentially” bought diebold stock.
everyone have a great afternoon, it’s time for me to get some meatspace work done.

siun 84 (just when I was trying to get back to work!)

Make it stop!! “Knowledge”?!?!? This is like a bad action movie. Knowledge of how to build a nuclear weapon is just not a serious threat. I know in all those movies that’s the big moment, when the baddie learns how. But may we be reality-based for a moment?

The “Nth Country Experiment” was run in the 1960’s to understand how easy it is to acquire just the knowledge. http://www.thebulletin.org/art.....ma03stober . The conclusion is that acquiring the knowledge is just not that hard. And yet, in the forty years since that study, there’s not been a nuclear terrorist attack. I wonder why that is?

It’s because the hard part of building a nuclear weapon is not knowing how. That’s the easy part. The hard part is actually building one. That’s because enrichment is so difficult. Knowledge by itself is not really a threat.

If they’re making “knowledge” the standard, we’re closer to the edge than I thought.

Haha. Brian Lehrer (sp?) on WNYC (npr) is now hosting a segment called “Are White House Correspondents Real Journalists?” With Harold Evans and Walter Isaacson.

TPM Muckraker refers to AP story (http://www.nj.com/news/ledger/index.ssf?/base/news-6/1144644044303080.xml&coll=1) whereby someone ‘knowledgeable’ says POTUS okayed releasing the information by saying “Get it out”, but without specifying how or via whom. Is that the same as saying ‘declassified, but didn’t authorize leak’?

Isn’t it amazing that people are still pretending that we don’t know exactly what went on? Hell, it was obvious at the time what they were doing, i.e., waging a propaganda campaign to bolster public support for toppling Saddam, using whatever lies and misinformation was necessary. The press swallowed it hook, line, and sinker, but if I remember correctly, nearly 40% of the public did not. I do remember, as if it were yesterday, thinking that they had damn well better find those WMD, and they had better get in and out of Iraq pretty fast, or there is going to be hell to pay. Think about it: They had to know that their case was shaky at best and that public support was far from overwhelming. What kind of fools would go to war like that?

Gee, what a surprise, the NYT is quoting another “high level�