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	<title>Comments on: Late Nite FDL: What Lies Beneath</title>
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	<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/04/09/late-nite-fdl-what-lies-beneath/</link>
	<description>Firedoglake weblog</description>
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		<title>By: ReidBlog</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/04/09/late-nite-fdl-what-lies-beneath/#comment-63678</link>
		<dc:creator>ReidBlog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Apr 2006 15:17:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/04/09/late-nite-fdl-what-lies-beneath/#comment-63678</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Quick takes: Monsters and critics…&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Horrors… critics… propaganda… immigration… and nobody likes Kathy……&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Quick takes: Monsters and critics…</strong></p>
<p>Horrors… critics… propaganda… immigration… and nobody likes Kathy……</p>
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		<title>By: AListReview</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/04/09/late-nite-fdl-what-lies-beneath/#comment-63664</link>
		<dc:creator>AListReview</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Apr 2006 15:04:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/04/09/late-nite-fdl-what-lies-beneath/#comment-63664</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Crooks and Liars Calls Little Green Footballs Blogger a Racist…&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The link history:  Matt O., as guest blogger on Firedoglake blogs about Little Green Footballs and is picked up by Crooks and Liars.Matt attempts to build the argument that LGF’s blogger, Charles Johnson, is racist.  His proofs for this clai…&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Crooks and Liars Calls Little Green Footballs Blogger a Racist…</strong></p>
<p>The link history:  Matt O., as guest blogger on Firedoglake blogs about Little Green Footballs and is picked up by Crooks and Liars.Matt attempts to build the argument that LGF’s blogger, Charles Johnson, is racist.  His proofs for this clai…</p>
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		<title>By: Iowa Liberal &#187; Firedoglake points out the obvious.</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/04/09/late-nite-fdl-what-lies-beneath/#comment-63485</link>
		<dc:creator>Iowa Liberal &#187; Firedoglake points out the obvious.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Apr 2006 05:26:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/04/09/late-nite-fdl-what-lies-beneath/#comment-63485</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;[…] While I’ve tried to avoid linking to the big sites, some things are just too good, and too indispensible.Â  Matt O. writes a post about the racist comments at frothing (and incredibly popular) rightwinger blog Little Green Footballs featuring over a dozen links in the following paragraph: Frequently readers post comments with racial slurs such as â€œragheadâ€ and â€œmooselimbs,â€ racist anecdotes, castration, charges of a low intellect, wiping their rear with the Koran, calls for a new crusade, violence towards and mass murder of all Muslims, the destruction of Islam and white supremacist-esque language like â€œItâ€™s time we asserted our cultureâ€ and â€œmoral and cultural superiority.â€ It seems that liberals are now by definition terrorists and labeled as such. They speak of Arabs and Muslims in much the same ways that a racist southerner would speak of blacks in the 1950s. […]&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[…] While I’ve tried to avoid linking to the big sites, some things are just too good, and too indispensible.Â  Matt O. writes a post about the racist comments at frothing (and incredibly popular) rightwinger blog Little Green Footballs featuring over a dozen links in the following paragraph: Frequently readers post comments with racial slurs such as â€œragheadâ€ and â€œmooselimbs,â€ racist anecdotes, castration, charges of a low intellect, wiping their rear with the Koran, calls for a new crusade, violence towards and mass murder of all Muslims, the destruction of Islam and white supremacist-esque language like â€œItâ€™s time we asserted our cultureâ€ and â€œmoral and cultural superiority.â€ It seems that liberals are now by definition terrorists and labeled as such. They speak of Arabs and Muslims in much the same ways that a racist southerner would speak of blacks in the 1950s. […]</p>
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		<title>By: angie</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/04/09/late-nite-fdl-what-lies-beneath/#comment-63469</link>
		<dc:creator>angie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Apr 2006 04:53:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/04/09/late-nite-fdl-what-lies-beneath/#comment-63469</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Thank you brad– so you are not a Moslem.  You work with  a few in a very professional environment.  Do you break bread with them and talk with them outside of your very professional environment?  If the sources you provided are what educated you, perhaps you need a little more enlightenment.  Perhaps from G.W. Bush himself today @ SAIS?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;‘Q Morning, Mr. President. I have a more general question about the United States’ work to democratize the rest of the world. Many have viewed the United States’ effort to democratize the world — especially nations in the Middle East — as an imposition or invasion on their sovereign rights. Considering that it was, in fact, the Prophet Mohammed who established the first known constitution in the world — I’m referring to the constitution he wrote for the city of Medina –and that his life and the principles outlined in his constitution, such as the championing of the welfare of women, children and the poor, living as an equal among his people, dissolving disputes between the warring clans in Arabia, giving any man or woman in parliament the right to vote and guaranteeing respect for all religions, ironically parallel those principles that we hold most precious in our own Constitution. I’m wondering how might your recently formed Iraq Study Group under the U.S. Institute for Peace explore these striking similarities to forge a new relationship with Iraqis and educate Americans about the democratic principles inherent in Islam?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;THE PRESIDENT: Great question. I believe that the terrorists have hijacked a peaceful religion in order to justify their behavior. I thank you for bringing that to my attention. I will pass on your comments to James A. Baker, who is one of the chairmen of the group going to Iraq.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;See, you said something really interesting. Initially, you said, people view America imposing its beliefs. And I hearken back to what I said earlier — this fellow’s question here — that if you believe that freedom is not universal, then it could be viewed as an imposition of beliefs. I’m not saying to countries, you’ve got to look like us or act like us, but I am saying, you know, give your people a chance to be free. And I think it’s necessary for America to take the lead on this issue. I think it is — I think it is vital for our future that we encourage liberty, and in this case, the Middle East. And as you said, it doesn’t necessarily run contrary to what the Prophet Mohammad said.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;It’s a — and so how do you advance freedom? I mean, well, one thing you do is you make sure that the Lebanese have a chance to self-govern freely without Syrian interference. It’s one thing you can do. Another thing you can do is work for the establishment of a Palestinian state, which I’m doing. I believe that there will be a Palestinian state that is at peace with Israel. I believe it’s going to have to be a democracy — again, a Palestinian-style democracy — to achieve that. But in my — early in my presidency, I said it’s in our interest that there be two states, side-by-side in peace, and we’re working toward that end.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;You know, part of the debate here that I’m sure you’re discussing is whether or not the United States should insist upon elections before everything is right. You hear the — the civil society has to be just right before you can have elections. I disagree strongly with that. I think elections are the beginning of the process, not the end.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And I found the elections that Hamas won very instructive and very interesting. It was — to me, it was a final condemnation of the Arafat era, where people said, we’re sick of corruption; we want better health care and better education; we want — we actually want our leaders to focus on the people, not on their self interests.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And because I believe in two states, side-by-side in peace, and therefore expect the government of both to be peaceful toward each other, we’re not going to deal with a government that has announced that they want to destroy Israel. On the other hand, we will help the Palestinian people. And I believe a democracy will eventually yield the state necessary to be side-by-side with Israel in peace.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The success of a democracy in Iraq — and as I told you, I think we’re going to succeed; as a matter of fact, I know we are if we don’t lose our nerve — will send a powerful signal. Imagine the signal it will send to people in Iran that are not free right now. I believe the women’s movement is going to be the leading edge of changing the Middle East. I don’t believe women want to live as second-class citizens. I believe — I believe it’s — I believe there’s a universal desire to be treated fairly and equally.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;And so I think — look, I’m pleased with the progress. I was reading the other day where Kuwaiti women are running for office. It’s a positive sign, you know? We’ve got to be realistic about what’s possible, but we’ve got to be firm in our belief that freedom is possible and necessary. Otherwise — I’ll repeat to you — a system that says, okay, let’s just tolerate the tyrant so long as everything seems okay, didn’t work.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;That’s one of the lessons of the attack on the United States. You know, the world seemed fine, didn’t it? It seemed kind of placid — there was a bubble here, a bubble there. But everything seemed all right. And yet, beneath the surface, there was tremendous resentment. And it’s now come to the — and so how do you defeat their — now, if you don’t think they have a ideology or a point of view, and/or a strategy to impose it, you’re not going to understand why you think the United States ought not to be as active as we are.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But I believe differently. I believe they’re bound — these folks are bound by an ideology. I know that they have got desires. They say it. This is one of — this is a different — this is a war in which the enemy actually speaks out loud. You heard the letter I wrote — read from — they didn’t speak out loud on this one, but nevertheless, it’s a — we’ve got to take their word seriously. When the enemy speaks, it makes sense for our military, our intelligence, the President to take the word seriously so we can adapt and adjust.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Anyway, very interesting question. Thanks for bringing that to my attention. Yes, ma’am.’&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Interesting that, eh?  How come I am scared not of them, but of us. Talk about talking out of both sides of your mouth– halitosis is halitosis no matter if it is left or right of the middle of our fear mongering government.  Axis of evildoers will never conquer our country– we. will. self. destruct. all. by. ourselves. thank. you.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you brad– so you are not a Moslem.  You work with  a few in a very professional environment.  Do you break bread with them and talk with them outside of your very professional environment?  If the sources you provided are what educated you, perhaps you need a little more enlightenment.  Perhaps from G.W. Bush himself today @ SAIS?</p>
<p>‘Q Morning, Mr. President. I have a more general question about the United States’ work to democratize the rest of the world. Many have viewed the United States’ effort to democratize the world — especially nations in the Middle East — as an imposition or invasion on their sovereign rights. Considering that it was, in fact, the Prophet Mohammed who established the first known constitution in the world — I’m referring to the constitution he wrote for the city of Medina –and that his life and the principles outlined in his constitution, such as the championing of the welfare of women, children and the poor, living as an equal among his people, dissolving disputes between the warring clans in Arabia, giving any man or woman in parliament the right to vote and guaranteeing respect for all religions, ironically parallel those principles that we hold most precious in our own Constitution. I’m wondering how might your recently formed Iraq Study Group under the U.S. Institute for Peace explore these striking similarities to forge a new relationship with Iraqis and educate Americans about the democratic principles inherent in Islam?</p>
<p>THE PRESIDENT: Great question. I believe that the terrorists have hijacked a peaceful religion in order to justify their behavior. I thank you for bringing that to my attention. I will pass on your comments to James A. Baker, who is one of the chairmen of the group going to Iraq.</p>
<p>See, you said something really interesting. Initially, you said, people view America imposing its beliefs. And I hearken back to what I said earlier — this fellow’s question here — that if you believe that freedom is not universal, then it could be viewed as an imposition of beliefs. I’m not saying to countries, you’ve got to look like us or act like us, but I am saying, you know, give your people a chance to be free. And I think it’s necessary for America to take the lead on this issue. I think it is — I think it is vital for our future that we encourage liberty, and in this case, the Middle East. And as you said, it doesn’t necessarily run contrary to what the Prophet Mohammad said.</p>
<p>It’s a — and so how do you advance freedom? I mean, well, one thing you do is you make sure that the Lebanese have a chance to self-govern freely without Syrian interference. It’s one thing you can do. Another thing you can do is work for the establishment of a Palestinian state, which I’m doing. I believe that there will be a Palestinian state that is at peace with Israel. I believe it’s going to have to be a democracy — again, a Palestinian-style democracy — to achieve that. But in my — early in my presidency, I said it’s in our interest that there be two states, side-by-side in peace, and we’re working toward that end.</p>
<p>You know, part of the debate here that I’m sure you’re discussing is whether or not the United States should insist upon elections before everything is right. You hear the — the civil society has to be just right before you can have elections. I disagree strongly with that. I think elections are the beginning of the process, not the end.</p>
<p>And I found the elections that Hamas won very instructive and very interesting. It was — to me, it was a final condemnation of the Arafat era, where people said, we’re sick of corruption; we want better health care and better education; we want — we actually want our leaders to focus on the people, not on their self interests.</p>
<p>And because I believe in two states, side-by-side in peace, and therefore expect the government of both to be peaceful toward each other, we’re not going to deal with a government that has announced that they want to destroy Israel. On the other hand, we will help the Palestinian people. And I believe a democracy will eventually yield the state necessary to be side-by-side with Israel in peace.</p>
<p>The success of a democracy in Iraq — and as I told you, I think we’re going to succeed; as a matter of fact, I know we are if we don’t lose our nerve — will send a powerful signal. Imagine the signal it will send to people in Iran that are not free right now. I believe the women’s movement is going to be the leading edge of changing the Middle East. I don’t believe women want to live as second-class citizens. I believe — I believe it’s — I believe there’s a universal desire to be treated fairly and equally.</p>
<p>And so I think — look, I’m pleased with the progress. I was reading the other day where Kuwaiti women are running for office. It’s a positive sign, you know? We’ve got to be realistic about what’s possible, but we’ve got to be firm in our belief that freedom is possible and necessary. Otherwise — I’ll repeat to you — a system that says, okay, let’s just tolerate the tyrant so long as everything seems okay, didn’t work.</p>
<p>That’s one of the lessons of the attack on the United States. You know, the world seemed fine, didn’t it? It seemed kind of placid — there was a bubble here, a bubble there. But everything seemed all right. And yet, beneath the surface, there was tremendous resentment. And it’s now come to the — and so how do you defeat their — now, if you don’t think they have a ideology or a point of view, and/or a strategy to impose it, you’re not going to understand why you think the United States ought not to be as active as we are.</p>
<p>But I believe differently. I believe they’re bound — these folks are bound by an ideology. I know that they have got desires. They say it. This is one of — this is a different — this is a war in which the enemy actually speaks out loud. You heard the letter I wrote — read from — they didn’t speak out loud on this one, but nevertheless, it’s a — we’ve got to take their word seriously. When the enemy speaks, it makes sense for our military, our intelligence, the President to take the word seriously so we can adapt and adjust.</p>
<p>Anyway, very interesting question. Thanks for bringing that to my attention. Yes, ma’am.’</p>
<p>Interesting that, eh?  How come I am scared not of them, but of us. Talk about talking out of both sides of your mouth– halitosis is halitosis no matter if it is left or right of the middle of our fear mongering government.  Axis of evildoers will never conquer our country– we. will. self. destruct. all. by. ourselves. thank. you.</p>
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		<title>By: Chauncy</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/04/09/late-nite-fdl-what-lies-beneath/#comment-63437</link>
		<dc:creator>Chauncy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Apr 2006 04:17:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/04/09/late-nite-fdl-what-lies-beneath/#comment-63437</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;[shoddy journalism in which The Post tried to pass off the Jack Abramoff scandal as bipartisan]&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Hmmm, how about Harry Reid? Or don’t you know?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;[Such an argument would be the equivalent of framing Christianity by the lunacy of Pat Robertson and the rest of the evangelical right.]&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Seems you just did what you railed against. The rest of evangelical right? I think that broad brush you used loses the argument right there.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[shoddy journalism in which The Post tried to pass off the Jack Abramoff scandal as bipartisan]</p>
<p>Hmmm, how about Harry Reid? Or don’t you know?</p>
<p>[Such an argument would be the equivalent of framing Christianity by the lunacy of Pat Robertson and the rest of the evangelical right.]</p>
<p>Seems you just did what you railed against. The rest of evangelical right? I think that broad brush you used loses the argument right there.</p>
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		<title>By: brad</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/04/09/late-nite-fdl-what-lies-beneath/#comment-63431</link>
		<dc:creator>brad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Apr 2006 04:09:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/04/09/late-nite-fdl-what-lies-beneath/#comment-63431</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;brad, are you a Moslem?&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
No&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt; Do you know any? &lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
yes, work with a few in very professional environment&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;Did you study the religion? &lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
enough to understand the danger.  Took me about 2 years to arrive at my viewpoint.  Progressed from the blind “Jihad is an inner struggle” and hopeful “There can be Islamic democracy” to the    position of clarity and knowledge “Islam is more dangerous than Nazism”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;I really want to know.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
so now you do&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>brad, are you a Moslem?</i><br />
No</p>
<p><i> Do you know any? </i><br />
yes, work with a few in very professional environment</p>
<p><i>Did you study the religion? </i><br />
enough to understand the danger.  Took me about 2 years to arrive at my viewpoint.  Progressed from the blind “Jihad is an inner struggle” and hopeful “There can be Islamic democracy” to the    position of clarity and knowledge “Islam is more dangerous than Nazism”</p>
<p><i>I really want to know.</i><br />
so now you do</p>
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		<title>By: Railroad Stone</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/04/09/late-nite-fdl-what-lies-beneath/#comment-63422</link>
		<dc:creator>Railroad Stone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Apr 2006 03:59:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/04/09/late-nite-fdl-what-lies-beneath/#comment-63422</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Jim, R.T.F.P.  The point is that even though Charles claims his posts are not necessarily his own opinion, that his selective filtering of them definitely is.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;If you want another example of a human stain basically making a living off his fans’ racism, you can’t go past Tim Blair.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;You can read his book, “Dog-Whistling for Dummies”, or “How to get someone ELSE to use the phrase ’so called religion of peace’ in 20 words or less”.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jim, R.T.F.P.  The point is that even though Charles claims his posts are not necessarily his own opinion, that his selective filtering of them definitely is.  </p>
<p>If you want another example of a human stain basically making a living off his fans’ racism, you can’t go past Tim Blair.</p>
<p>You can read his book, “Dog-Whistling for Dummies”, or “How to get someone ELSE to use the phrase ’so called religion of peace’ in 20 words or less”.</p>
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		<title>By: 7blades</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/04/09/late-nite-fdl-what-lies-beneath/#comment-63421</link>
		<dc:creator>7blades</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Apr 2006 03:59:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/04/09/late-nite-fdl-what-lies-beneath/#comment-63421</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;No, angie, but I bet Brad spent last night in a Holiday Inn Express so that makes him an expert, huh?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, angie, but I bet Brad spent last night in a Holiday Inn Express so that makes him an expert, huh?</p>
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		<title>By: Observer</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/04/09/late-nite-fdl-what-lies-beneath/#comment-63414</link>
		<dc:creator>Observer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Apr 2006 03:52:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/04/09/late-nite-fdl-what-lies-beneath/#comment-63414</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Amazing - I read a few comments earlier, come back and see them labeled “trolls” when they’re the same people posting week after week at ummah.com.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Sad. They work so hard to hide it, but leftists are leftists.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amazing &#8211; I read a few comments earlier, come back and see them labeled “trolls” when they’re the same people posting week after week at ummah.com.</p>
<p>Sad. They work so hard to hide it, but leftists are leftists.</p>
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		<title>By: angie</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2006/04/09/late-nite-fdl-what-lies-beneath/#comment-63406</link>
		<dc:creator>angie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Apr 2006 03:45:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/04/09/late-nite-fdl-what-lies-beneath/#comment-63406</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;brad, are you a Moslem?  Do you know any? Did you study the religion?  I really want to know.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>brad, are you a Moslem?  Do you know any? Did you study the religion?  I really want to know.</p>
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