
Patrick Fitzgerald spoke to a group of students in Chicago last week, and a reporter from the Chicago Tribune tagged along to see what he had to say. Lucky for us. He doesn't talk about the CIA leak case, but the reporter does glean a few tidbits that I thought might be of interest to our readers:
But he did answer questions about the challenge of seating a jury in a high-profile case and what he thought about the lengthiness of some federal prosecution cases, although in general terms.Fitzgerald said prosecutors don't want uninformed jurors.
"If you can find someone in New York who doesn't know anything about the World Trade Center bombing, that's probably the last person you want on your jury. They've been living under a rock," he said.
"What you have to do is find someone who can put aside what they've heard from the media and recognize that cases are tried in the courtroom."
As an attorney who has spent a lot of her career doing trial work, I can tell you that this is exactly the right attitude to have. Especially for a prosecutor like Fitz who is used to trying complex cases, you want a juror with a brain, who isn't afraid to use it, to question things they are told, to probe beyond the spin and the perspectives and get to the meat of the facts and the evidence -- and who will listen with an open mind and watch with very sharp eyes what goes on from the witness stand.
It is telling that Fitz does not want jurors who are slightly dull, and who can easily be led around by some song and dance routine in the courtroom but, instead, wants the same sort of probing mind that he also brings to the table. Good on him. And he wants an honest win -- one that the jurors think through and decide on their own two feet, not a manipulated win through trickery and smoke and mirrors that a tap dancing trial attorney might be able to pull out with a less-attentive group.
Fitz goes on to discuss the ethics or lack thereof of tacking on extra charges that some prosecutors do. (For the record, Fitz is against that, and says that it is unethical and unwise to charge anything but what you can make stick with your evidence. Complete agreement from me on that as well. Overcharging is not only unethical, but it makes you look like a jerk to the jury once they hear all the evidence at trial.)
And then the reporter goes into a little personal tidbit that I found illuminating about Pat Fitzgerald:
At the start of his career, Fitzgerald said he wasn't sure the "sacrifice" aspects of being a prosecutor suited him--or his student loans."I had an image of public service as being a whole bunch of Mother Teresas out there. I'm glad they're out there, [but] let somebody else do it," Fitzgerald said. "The sense was that public service was for me the thing I'm going to do if I came back in the middle of my life with a trust fund."
Fitzgerald said he worked three years in private practice and lived frugally so he could pay off his student loans and take a job in public service.
"The truth is people don't realize how rewarding public service is, in a way that's just not taxable," he said.
As someone who is still paying off her student loans from law school, I can attest to the smallness of pay that you recieve in public service (my last year as an assistant prosecutor paid me far less than $40,000 per year). But it is worth its weight in the long hours and crappy pay with that one case every now and then where you feel you can make a huge difference for the greater good of your community: saving a small child from a horribly abusive situation, sending a violent predator to jail before they can do further harm, helping a juvenile to realize that she has potential and can choose a better path.
In Fitz's case, the stakes are so much higher: massive political corruption, terrorism, mafia racketeering, Presidential advisors and high level political payback. But it was telling to me that Fitz would use his time with these students not to brag about himself, but to teach them the value of putting others first and of paying off your debts rather than living extravagantly, so that you could put yourself in a position to serve others.
He's an Irishman after me own heart, he is. Sometimes you just have to read a little character tidbit like this and smile. I bet his parents were awfully proud of their boy.
I don't mean this to be some sort of hero-worshippy blather -- but it struck me that we don't hear enough of this sort of heartfelt, true speech about real, honest values that people in the news have actually lived (not just the crap they spew that you know they don't mean, but really, honestly lived day in and day out) nearly often enough. And I wanted to bring it to everyone else's attention on a day when we need a little ray of sunshine.
(I'm sorry, I can't seem to find the comment that brought this article to my attention. Whomever it was that posted this link, thanks so much. If someone finds the comment, let me know -- I want to give credit where it is surely due.)
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I have faith in Patrick Fitzgerald!
My hope is that no matter how much blathering there is from the right-wingers, he will bring BushCo down by revealing its own crimes.
Of course now they have found a way to accuse him of being partisan . . . the last resort of the desperate crook.
“What you have to do is find someone who can put aside what they’ve heard from the media and recognize that cases are tried in the courtroom.”
As possibly the only person in the country (besides my wife) who loves jury duty, I am happy to hear this from prosecutor(s).
Christy - I think I saw it in one of yesterday’s threads.
Stephen — I thought so, too. And I went back through a cursory search, but I must have overlooked it somehow, because I just couldn’t find who to credit. I don’t like missing a hat tip to someone who brings something to my attention — I thought I jotted down a note on my ever-present legal pad by the kitchen laptop, but I can’t find that either. Arrrgh. Too much on my plate at the moment, I suppose — but if anyone can spot the comment or tell me who posted the link, I’ll be most grateful. Credit ought to go to the poster who linked this one up.
Christy -
To be more specific - is the source you’re looking for in one of Tom from Chicago’s posts from yesterday or possibly from late Friday afternoon or evening?
yeah, this story link was originally posted in the comments here … I recall reading it then and feeling good about ‘doing right’
Not all, by any means, but a disproportionate number of people who become AUSA’s in the Southern District of NY are in fact trust fund babies, the later genrations of of powereful families with famous names, and the like.
Despite small government salaries, they lived comfortable lives and had access to events attended by the well connected.
Entering that world from a working class background can be very intimmidating.
It amazes me that he does not see himself as a Mother Theresa type public servant. Unlike so many of his contemporaries there who came to the Southrn District to rack up good convction rates and make a name for themselves and get a great line on their resume so they could later become a partner in a national law firm, Pat has hung in there with the long hours, mediocre paycheck, lack of support staff and resources and just ried to make some justice happen. Sounds pretty selfliss to me.
I read that article yesterday (sorry Christy, I don’t remember either who it was posted the link, but my thanks to that person). I had the same reaction to it that you did Redd.
I know another devotee of public service - Phil Angelides. Running for governor to keep our happy state from falling into the clutches of the self-righteous ones, hopefully will survive the primary, although honestly he needs to get better advisors. Public service is not all the rage these days, I know; the public trough is where the in crowd goes.
It’s like the return of Elliot Ness, really.
Selfless not selfliss.
When will I learn how to type?
if you haven’t over-dosed on schadenfreude recently - this could do it for ya http://msnbc.msn.com/id/12227763/site/newsweek/
Wyo Nate at 10
Elloit Ness with a sense of humor is how Jim Comey described him in (I think?) Vanity Fair.
Neocon nutcase Bill Kristol was on Brit Hume trashing Fitzgerald, whom he had previously lauded as apolitical and an excellent, fair prosecutor.
But now that Fitz has filed with statements damaging to Kristol’s hero, Cheney and Bush, that’s all over- now Fitz is doing nothing less than trying to bring down the Bush administration. Perhaps if Kristol stopped sucking up the Kool Aid he would realize that the only people bringing down the Bush administration are Bush, Cheney and the rest of the cabal.
I guess this is part of the firewall? If it is, it’s falling apart because this is just pathetic. If this is the best the neoconjobs can do, they are in trouble and I feel a whole lot better.
Think Progress has the video if you missed the insanity.
cbl - left a comment at end of last
Shez - good point about visiting all our reps no matter the party and yes! to getting going on local organizing. I sent a note to the il group Pach arranged - hope we can coordinate some great work together!
and Christy et al - I’ve missed the lastest Spector on Fitz stuff - can anyone clue me in? I got a worrying impression that he may be trying to shift the issue to a congressional investigation which, if I remember past scandals, can hurt criminal prosecutions by granting immunity, etc?
Chrisy - this might be what you’re looking for as to the hat tip. I read it this morning - playing catch up on the threads.
Rose says:
April 8th, 2006 at 7:45 pm
unclebug - #72
thanks for the link to the article! I love this:
—
Fitzgerald said he worked three years in private practice and lived frugally so he could pay off his student loans and take a job in public service.
“The truth is people don’t realize how rewarding public service is, in a way that’s just not taxable,†he said.
—
Fitz is a very droll guy.
Here’s another article on the same talk. Not so many good quotes, but a photo:
http://www.daily-chronicle.com.....news01.txt
Sorry - I meant Christy, not Chrisy!
From talking head thread:
Kerry let slip a warped factoid this morning on MTP w/ Timmeh.
Refering to the NSA lightbeam-splitter-total-information-Hoover Vacuum story coming from a whistleblower, Kerry said it was, he thought, “AOL” that was the corporate culprit.
Slap a staffer, Kerry…it’s AT&T who rolled over and installed the info-sucker…the bastards!
–
J i O
Now that we have Libby’s defense for leaking portions of the NIE, its fun to back and Miller’s account of her GJ testimony. No smoking sythesis - just fun.
&y No. 3
I’d like to be on a jury but never get past the stage where lawyers question the jury pool and they usually get twice as many as they need there. I’m not sure why I want to other than a desire to “do my civic duty”, I don’t want to sit in judgement so much as to observe the process.
When he is finished with this sorid mess, I propose Fitz for A.G. How novel, an A.G. with intergity!
I too have wanted to be on a jury but the one time I was called, I was dismissed before it could be ascertained I knew both the Judge and the Defense Attorney…
M$NBC is carrying live shots of the hugumongous Immigration Rally in downtown Dallas - estimates are around 100,000 people. Dayum!
Slightly OT and I don’t know the etiquette for
reposting someone else’s work, but I found this in the comments section over at HuffPo and it really grabbed me:
WHAT THEY ARE NOT TELLING YOU ABOUT PLAMEGATE
Leaking Valerie Plame’s name took a valuable resource out of the REAL war on terror. This action approved by the President and Vice President has endangered the lives of every American citizen, both at home and abroad.
Leaking Plame’s name also blew her front cover employer, Brewster Jennings & Associates. It was Robert Novak, American traitor, and political commentator hack, who in collusion with Bush and Cheney, first published the highly classified information.
It has been suggested that there were other resources within the CIA who were also working undercover as non-official cover operative” (NOC) as employees of Brewster Jennings. It has also been suggested that once their undercover status was compromised, they were quickly captured and eliminated, thus multiplying the damage done to the CIA’s ability to gather valuable information in the Mid East.
The outing of Plame destroyed all trust the CIA had for the Bush/Cheney administration. Why would they now put their lives on the line as NOCs knowing that at any time, their cover could also be blown for political gain, thus ending their careers and possibly ending their lives as well?
But there’s more!
Plame… ‘was a long-term proprietary and deep-cover NOC - well established and consistently producing “take” from ARAMCO (and who knows what else in Saudi Arabia). It was destroyed with a motive of personal vengeance (there may have been other motives) by someone inside the White House.
From the CIA’s point of view, at a time when Saudi Arabia is one of the three or four countries of highest interest to the US, the Plame operation was irreplaceable.
Almost the entire Bush administration has an interest in ARAMCO.
The Boston Globe reported that in 2001 ARAMCO had signed a $140 million multi-year contract with Halliburton, then chaired by Dick Cheney, to develop a new oil field. Halliburton does a lot of business in Saudi Arabia. Current estimates of Halliburton contracts or joint ventures in the country run into the tens of billions of dollars.
So do the fortunes of some shady figures from the Bush family’s past.
As recently as 1991 ARAMCO had Khalid bin Mahfouz sitting on its Supreme Council or board of directors. Mahfouz, Saudi Arabia’s former treasurer and the nation’s largest banker, has been reported in several places to be Osama bin Laden’s brother in law.
ARAMCO is the largest oil group in the world, a state-owned Saudi company in partnership with four major US oil companies.
Another one of Aramco’s partners is Chevron-Texaco which gave up one of its board members, Condoleezza Rice, when she became the National Security Advisor to George Bush.
All of ARAMCO’s key decisions are made by the Saudi royal family while US oil expertise, personnel and technology keeps the cash coming in and the oil going out. ARAMCO operates, manages, and maintains virtually all Saudi oil fields - 25% of all the oil on the planet.’
http://www.oilempire.us/plame.html…
Also, let’s not forget the long term friendship and business partnerships between the Bush family and the bin Laden family.
Knowing all of this, how can anyone in their right mind approve of Bush and Cheney’s treasonous behavior of outing Valerie Plame and Brewster Jennings for political gain?
- KevinSchmidtSterlingVa, 04.09.2006
If a Dem wins in ‘08, Fitz will *definitely* be appointed A.G.. He might turn it down, but he’ll be nominated for sure!!
Take heart, America, there are other Fitzgeralds out there. In 1986, I had the great good fortune to have one prosecuting a case in which I was a victim — an extremely difficult case, multiple counts but little direct evidence. The prosecutor, who could have earned millions in private practice but chose to be a public servant for a fraction of that, tracked down the tiniest details, working punishing hours, and came up with something unique at the time — a little thing called DNA testing, so new then that it had to be explained to the jury. It got him the conviction (one of the first using DNA) and the perpetrator more than a hundred years in prison. Funny thing, he’s a middle class Irish guy, too. Something in the genes, maybe?
Speaking of AG — Gonzo has been so adamant that his ‘client’ is NOT the US Constitution/Gov’t/People, but rather the Dictator-in-Chief leads me to ask — can the AG be impeached? Or, more specifically, is there a way to remove him other than Prez firing/AG resignation?
Fitz really is extraordinary. His like makes me proud of this country again. Well, for a minute.
I sure hope the next Harry Taylor asks Bush about the leak. I think the following question would be appropriate:
“Mr. President, your own press secretary has acknowledged that you declassfied and leaked misleading portions of a national intelligence estimate in order to push the country into war.
It stands to reason that you also authorized the leak of Valerie Plame’s CIA identity for the same reason. Right now, could you please tell us whether you authorized this leak?
The American people have a right to know.”
If there is a simpler, more clear cut formulation of this question, please advise. Bush needs to be asked this question or a variation thereof.
Any answer from Bush other than “No” will elicit a political firestorm. It simply won’t work for him to hide behind the “ongoing investigation” response.
Blamk at 27 ,
I’m not 100% on this, but I think any cabinet officer can be impeached. I knw that Impeachment is the only way to fire an Article III federal judge.
Oh, and to clarify a point from a couple days ago about whther Cheney can be indicted while in office. Agnew was indicted while in office for crimes committed before he became VP. There was vasy disagreement among the legal community about whether or not he could TRIED while in office B/C of the whole distraction from duties problem. The same issues came up during the Clinto/Paula Jones case. The civil case for Jones invovled conduct that predated Clinton becoming President.
However, we are currently discussing conduct by the POTUS and VPOTUS while they were in office. I don’t think either of them are elligible to be indicted for that conduct absent an impeachment. At best it is an unsettled area of law.
If I recall correctly Agnew never had a trial, but resigned and plead out. Sorry to be a nattering nabohb of negativism.
Fitz quotes -
Vanity Fair April 2006 Issue
Marie Brenner’s article ‘Lies and Consequences - Sixteen Words That Changed The World’, a naked attempt to re hab her pal Judy’s image after those nasty bloggers go a hold of it- but here on page 258, a paragraph contains 16 words that could change the world -
“Don’t go down this road, Pat,” Abrams said he had told Fitzgerald in Chicago. “I am here to urge you to avoid subpoenaing journalists and the ensuing battles that will come from it.” Abrams later recalled. “He responded that he had thought long and hard about the issue and had pruned down the list of journalists who were of substantial relevance, He said, in effect, that he would not have started down the road unless he was prepared to go to the end.” Abrams said Fitzgerald told him he was absolutely sure that his case was solid and that … “
those 16 make me happy
vast not vasy . and there are so many other typos. I can’t stand it.
CBL,
OK, leaving computer now to go by Vanit Fair. Have a happy rest of your Sunday all.
Slan go Foill
Given the misleading nature of the NIE information that was leaked by Libby, do you think that the administration may start trying to claim that since the leaked information was so substantively at odds with the actual NIE, then it cannot be considered a “leak”?
They weren’t leaking because they were lying anyway.
I am joking, of course, but the sad thing for the administration is that this may be one of the best defenses that they have at this point - which is a beautiful thing.
those 16 make me happy
cbl - they make me purr with contentment
I am really looking forward to hearing back from any Harry Taylor types who went to the Lieberman events.
In the future, I think it would make sense for a group of FDL’ers to try to coordinate via email to attend Lieberman events together and ask well-crafted questions.
Perhaps the coordination could occur via Pach as an email connector as has been discussed in the past.
From thread below
Sonate 73
It’s important because if no “law†prevents the president from divulging nuclear codes, any appeal for censure, impeachment, treason, etc, lies only within common sense and not the law.
Dang - that didn’t work well
Sonate - from below thread:
Here’s where it is a bit complicated to explain what “the law†is (it’s also where I kind of diverged from lhp and rh on references to AmJur in Libby’s brief). If you are interested, there are two main sources of law; statutory and common. The Constitution is the highest source of our statutory law. The “source†of our common law - if you want to get esoteric – is kind of an interesting debate (and you see it debated in some old decisions – not so much now) . For general purposes, though, common law is “judge made†law and statutory law is “man made†law. Judges interpret statutory law, but once upon a time, judges actually “made†or “found†or “discovered†or “applied the self-evident truth†etc. and over the years, through stare decisis, that judge made law became enshrined in our codes of conduct.
Unless you happen to live in Lousiana, that common law was originally made in England by the judges and decisions there. All of this “judge made†(common, case etc. law) was adopted by this country when it was established. So there is a lot of “law†that you do not find in a statute anywhere. In particular, this applies to things like the relationships of persons with respect to agency and trust and contract. Over time, in this country, we have tried in many areas to convert common law to statutory law (almost always at the State level) and sometimes you even supplant old common law with new statutory law, but unless you drive that stake through its heart – the common law lives and breaths.
Sometimes, even when you do manage to drive that stake through its heart with a statute, the common law returns, zombie like, to walk the earth under the name of “equity.†Bc the common law is the “self evident†basis of the social contract and relationships. Lhp and rh have done lots of criminal work, and criminal is very much about statutes, these days in particular. I’ve done a lot of civil work in the area of agency, property rights, trust and contracts and despite a lot of supplanting that has been done by statutes, the common law still takes up a lot of space with what I have done and often, because the original sourcing of common law goes back so far, and also because civil cases do not always have the same appeal rights and priorities as criminal cases, a lot of the law is general principals and maxims found in treatises for which a few cases may be cited, but which generally do not generate US Supreme Ct cases.
So, from that, I will tell you that all government is a fiduciary relationship between the elected officials and the citizens. This is like the kind of fiduciary relationship you might have with, for example, a friend to whom you give money to invest for you. The heart of a fiduciary relationship is that where one party has the legal ability to take actions, they are nonetheless required to take those actions “for the benefit†of someone else. You bifurcate power, rights and assets into the one who has the “legal†right and the one who has the “beneficial†interest. It is a wrong, under the common law, for someone who has received legal power to do something as a fiduciary to exercise that power in a manner contrary to the interests of the true beneficiary of that power.
So, if you give money to your neighbor to invest for you and he takes it and uses it to set a world’s record for number of rollercoaster rides, he has committed a wrong. Did he “steal†the money from you? No- you handed it over. But you “meant†for him to … OK, did you get that in writing (contract)? Uh, maybe not. And usually, there is both a civil and a criminal aspect, under the common law, to a fiduciary’s misuse of their power and position. Sometimes, that gets “codified†into a statute, but the common law is there whether a statute exists or not.
All that is the yawny approach to me saying, I am pretty definite that whether or not you can find a “case on point†which, in this situation, I don’t think you can, it is WRONG under the common law for the legal holder of the right to classify documents to use that power for their personal benefit instead of for the true beneficiaries of that right, the American people. You can see the underlying recognition of this common law limitation in the Exec Order’s attempt to list the things that cannot be made classified. But the common law has never needed a statute to exist. When the first English courts told the king that, “a man’s home is his castle†(paraphrasing) they were not relying on some law that the king had himself written, they were relying on the nature of governance and the equities that favor the rights of the governed. The “self evident†truths our forefathers also mentioned. The Magna Carter also stems from the very basic recognition of governance as a fiduciary relationship.
Common law is so ingrained in most Americans that they “know it when they see it.†IF we did not also have both statutory and common law hindrances on pursuit of claims against a sitting President, we would have more law on this, but we do have those hindrances. IMO, though, it is absolutely correct to state that the President has the same agency and fiduciary limitations of abuse and misuse of power as any other fiduciary in all the commonly stated treatises. He does not “own†the power of the Presidency or of this Country; he exercises legal aspects of that power for the benefit of the true beneficiaries.
Again, this is why I would make a lousy opthamologist.
lhp 8 - just curiosity, but is that bc it is a good political springboard, or some other reason?
Not all, by any means, but a disproportionate number of people who become AUSA’s in the Southern District of NY are in fact trust fund babies, the later genrations of of powereful families with famous names, and the like.
OT
Had Enough?
For once I agree with Newt Gingrich. The Dems slogan for 2006 should be “Had Enough?”
It is short, simple and directly on point.
http://americablog.blogspot.co.....hould.html
Bush Has Hog-Tied Fitzgerald and Hung Libby Out To Dry
By Evelyn Pringle http://www.bushwatch.com/pringle.htm
“…since Bush and Cheney knew they were the culprits at the center of the investigation, they came up with a plan to hog-tie Prosecutor Fitzgerald and sabotage his investigation right from the start.
While it may appear that Bush stepped in to take the fall for Libby, don’t believe it for one minute. Bush would never, never take a fall for anyone, probably not even his own mother.”
Is Pringle nuts or what?
siun,
don’t really know what happened as I was sitting here trying to catch up on comments when I heard that voice - all we caught was some of his usual BS about the brave men and women in uniform. We had Tivo going, so I’ll try and backtrack during next commercial - for all we know it was a ‘Fox’ deal - we were both so apoplectic - but I’ll fill you in when we run the playback
Didn’t see anything new in the Newsweek leak summary, but I read it quickly:
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/12228726/site/newsweek/
Blank K 27
can the AG be impeached?
YES!!!!!!
Or, more specifically, is there a way to remove him other than Prez firing/AG resignation?
Prett much just impeachment. I wonder what would happen if he was disbarred though. Could be interesting headscratcher.
looseheadprop says: April 9th, 2006 at 11:43 am
Gerald Posner has a book out that claims that the Saudi rulers have spiked their oil fields with dirty atomic bombs in case they lose power….They don’t want to leave the oil fields to their successors if they’re overthrown…..Just saying……
cbl,#42,
His beady eyed self was on Faux tv for the NASCAR race.Got to tell them to start their engines,in between his usual B.S.. I made sure to give him the one finger salute.
FITZ: Fortitude Inspires True Zeal.
Bustedknuckles #46
was his appearance under the aegis of Fox or NASCAR, could you tell ?
CBL - thanks! I’m ready to rant at Franz if needed.
Pach and everyone - don’t miss the post over at Steve G’s about an exchange on Fox - this is how you do message control right - awesome work by Maryscott OConnor!
http://stevegilliard.blogspot.com/
getting an error msg saying that my comment is a duplicate but it’s not … just fyi for debugging.
Here’s the comment:
CBL - thanks! I’m ready to rant at Franz if needed.
Pach and everyone - don’t miss the post over at Steve G’s about an exchange on Fox - this is how you do message control right - awesome work by Maryscott OConnor!
http://stevegilliard.blogspot.com/
weird - it was duplicate - sorry folks!
cbl,
NASCAR. Told them to start their engines after sucking up to a bunch of Texas Business men. All smarmy. The man makes me want to gag. Even my g/f, who HATES politics told him to shut up. lol. It must be rubbing off a little.
I just posted a comment but lost it, so shorter version:
Bob Woodward is clearly playing a role in the WaPo editorial page, here.
The editorial is a joke.
Video taped for Fox.
Oops, link didn’t work-
WaPo editorial:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....00895.html
I’ve been doing some cutting & pasting at the WaPoo Blog http://blog.washingtonpost.com.....aunch.html
“Reading Judy, Part Three”
by emptywheel
“Summary: In this post, I speculate that Libby was trying to use Judy as a cut-out on July 8; he was trying to get her to publish three pieces of intelligence attacking Joe Wilson’s case to save OVP the trouble of declassifying it. It was intended to repeat the early September 2002 operation, where Judy made classified information public, so Administration officials could then talk about it. I then suggest that Joseph Tate started leaking the content of Libby’s testimony–revealing that Dick strategized with Libby on July 12–to draw suspicions away from earlier involvement, precisely the cut-out operation he approved earlier in the week….”
http://thenexthurrah.typepad.com/the_next_hurrah/
siun, thanks for 50 on the gilliard link to
Maryscott OConnor on FOX, really worthwhile.
I like hero-worshippy blather–which is to say, a hero worthy of worship and blather–
Mary– wow. equity as the return of the (repressed?)–wow
Gee, I don’t unnerstand all that legal quibble. But with the prosecutor, Fitzgerald, it can be boiled down to serving God or Mammon. Being Irish, he serves the best he can.
OT
Hersh article is up, in case it has not been posted here.
http://www.newyorker.com/fact/.....417fa_fact
(snippet)
The Iran Plans
Would President Bush go to war to stop Tehran from getting the bomb?
By Seymour M. Hersh
04/08/06 “New Yorker” — – The Bush Administration, while publicly advocating diplomacy in order to stop Iran from pursuing a nuclear weapon, has increased clandestine activities inside Iran and intensified planning for a possible major air attack. Current and former American military and intelligence officials said that Air Force planning groups are drawing up lists of targets, and teams of American combat troops have been ordered into Iran, under cover, to collect targeting data and to establish contact with anti-government ethnic-minority groups. The officials say that President Bush is determined to deny the Iranian regime the opportunity to begin a pilot program, planned for this spring, to enrich uranium.
From the WaPoo’s blog:
“The “Good Leak” - did everything but call it an ‘immaculate declassification.’”
We have come so far down the road since the famous Libby “aspens” letter. On a whim, I went back and reviewed it again. From this vantage point in time, it sure is an entertaining read. If you are interested in taking a second look, I have provided a link to it below (PDF).
http://www.nytimes.com/package.....051001.pdf
here’s my post on WaPo post.blog today
Hmmmm, lets see,op-ed”a good leak”,then the story”Concerted effort” to discredit.Have you all gone nuts?Can’t recall the last time I’ve seen a paper shoot itself in the foot like that,,,oh yeah,”Red America” anyone?
Posted by: DMM | April 9, 2006 12:24 PM
Bustedknuckles #52
thanks!
Siun-
apparently I just missed you over at Gilliard’s. Took me a while to work up the nerve to see what his regulars were saying about Iran (they aint been wrong yet) and although some of the heavy hitters ( e.g., H.Sonic and de Bruxelles) hadn’t weighed in yet, I’m no less worried. Although in my dotage, I am at least respectful, no one would ever call me pro-military, yet here I am praying for a gd coup d’etat - wtf ?!? - a world gone mad
I posted tis one later;
I’m shure you’ll dismiss all these comments as the “left wing attack dogs”,but these are your readers that you are disregarding.these are people that care,people that vote,those that see your B/S for what it is.
One request,start printing the paper on softer stock,I may run low on T/P.
Posted by: DMM | April 9, 2006 03:47 PM
From the WaPoo’s blog:
“The “Good Leak†- did everything but call it an ‘immaculate declassification.’â€
ROFL John Casper, funniest thing I’ve read today! That’s a keeper…
from the WaPoo Blog http://blog.washingtonpost.com.....aunch.html
I'm sure you'll dismiss all these comments as the "left wing attack dogs", but these are your readers that you are disregarding. these are people that care, people that vote, those that see your B/S for what it is.
One request, start printing the paper on softer stock,I may run low on T/P.Posted by: DMM | April 9, 2006 03:47 PMIt wasn’t me but I chuckled!
John Casper
spew worthy first laugh I’ve had all week end
thanks
immaculate declassification - priceless !
CBL - I’ve been startled by how much respect I have for the military as opposed to these criminals. I had never known anyone in the military (lots of COs and my Dad was kicked out after 3 days during Korea as not an ideal candidate for military service … a matter of pride in our family) until I started corresponding with soldiers early in this war via Books for Soldiers. I was so impressed by the honor they displayed.
Don’t get intimidated - we all have important voices to raise!
and now to watch the race - household distractions have been many this am
Thanks Shez. My favorite at the WaPo was *ilson’s
“the next Post Editorial will be “The Good Nukes” about how the Respected and Beloved Leader had to obliterate Iran in order to save it…
Posted by: Wilson46201 | April 9, 2006 02:26 PM”
I very much appreciate these sentiments from U.S. Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald.
Having been a juror in a federal trial, I have firsthand experience with the ‘ignore the details and go with your gut’ sort of instinct that I witnessed in my basically good-hearted fellow jurors. I was trying to read (and understand!) the lengthy jury instructions (the law…) from the judge, review the documents in evidence, and then put it all together. I was not enthusiastically joined in this endeavor by most of the others until push kind of came to shove. [Others were very concerned, pretty much from the get-go, that the Court was anxious for a speedy decision from us, and were sure we were overstaying our “welcome” in the jury deliberation stage - and therefore that we needed to get it ‘over with’ and go home.] Thankfully it all came out well in the end, I think we all agreed (although I have the scars to prove it) - including the judge, who seemed downright enthused after our verdict.
I liked this article …
http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/.....-uspo.html
and this paragraph. Dems need to push this …
“At least in my mind, there’s a difference between declassification - which is a formal step in which information is put officially on the public record - and a leak,” says Mr. Smith. “Here, what appears to have happened is the White House wanted to get this information out, but selectively gave certain portions of the NIE to a reporter without attribution. That’s not declassification; that’s a leak.”
immaculate declassification
ROFL
PERFECT!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Sonate - Some support for what I just rambled. ;-)
Common law and equitable principals are why you hear old civil lawyers say things like “find me a case that says. . .†instead of “what is the law on. . . .†*g* So, having made my rambling review, here is an actual article about the concept in the related area of Public Board Members.
http://www.bricker.com/LegalSe.....oms155.asp
Public board members are therefore obligated to uphold their fiduciary duty of loyalty while performing their official functions. The duty of loyalty is an established creation of common law, a concept that exists beyond statutes and regulations and yet remains inherent within them. At its core, the duty of loyalty requires that those who operate as agents exercising power on behalf of others must protect the interests of those persons served above all others, including themselves.
Thanks cbl. It didn’t originate with me, just something posted anonymously at WaPo: “Posted by: | April 9, 2006 01:29 PM.”
Christy,
You touched something in my soul. A huge THANKS! Your post brought a little sunshine after reading all this suff about bombing Iran back into the stone age.
My mother was a midwife in a rural Irish community…totally dedicated to the families she assisted. Many were coalminers with very limited resources.
Because of the example of my mother I’ve dedicated most of my life to public service. As Fitzgerald advised, the financial rewards can be very limited but the personal rewards are extraordinary.
Again Christy, you made my weekend. FDL is a gift that keeps on giving!
there seem to be a few FDL’ers @ WaPo today - somehow all asking essentially the same question - conflating their leak coverage with that to be expected re Iran.
Funny stuff, DMM!
xyz at 64 -
Thanks for the link to the letter. I need to run over to emptywheel’s place, but I love the clause near the end of the letter: “if any”.
Almost sounds like coaching…
Nonsequitor - is there some “grassroots” project I missed? Over the last 48 hours (+/-) I have heard The Night Chicago Died about 4 times on the radio (after, oh, say a DECADE of not hearing it) and lhp’s reference to Ness made me suddenly think, “hmmm, is there something behind those call in requests?”
I’m not sure I would have thought of Paper Lace as an homage, but I’m kind of at a loss for another explanation behind the resurgence.
John Casper, although I didn’t sign my name, I wrote the ‘immaculte declassification’ line in the WaPo Blog this morning. Glad you liked it and feel free to pass it around. I think it is a good meme for how this administration operates. Besides you know bush is going to say that God told him it was the right thing to do!
When I watched Mr. Fitzgerald during his Libby indictment press conference, I had turned to a colleague of mine at work and I recall saying, “This is a serious man. He must be the one person who scares the heck out of this Administration”.
This guy is the Atticus Finch of our time. Sometimes we get glimpses of the best of America and he is one such glimpse.
I have a wacky theory of what the WH’s ME policy is. I was trying to post this last night, but the one letter per 10 sec. thing was slowing me down. I’d be interested in comments on this WAT.
Let’s take for granted that all our actions in the ME are about oil.
From there, notice that Iraqi oil production is down, and civil war will keep it down. Next, note that
Iran’s oil production will o down if we attack Iran, or if the civil war in Iraq spreads to Iran. These are predictable effects.. so were they the desired outcome? Could it be that the US wants to sabotage oil productions in IRaq and Iran—probably to hurt China—while safeguarding the oil on the Arabian peninsula with our military , for use by us?
This is my Grand Unified Theory of White House Wackiness.
another goodie from the WaPoo Blog
Is “The Good Leak” some code for an offer to Judy Miller to come and work for the Post on WMD coverage before Iran?
Posted by: Mary | April 9, 2006 04:18 PM
From the Lamont Blog:
Joe Lieberman will not rule out an independent run for the Senate in November, according to initial reports from his appearance in Windsor today. link
Forthright
Independent
Truthful
Zeus
That’s our Patrick
in response to looseheadprop (post 24):
I’ve long wondered if the Plame outing was a two-fer, that Joe Wilson was only the secondary target. Valerie Plame’s organization would have been an insurmountable obstacle to creating the PNACers’ pretext for the attack on Iran, namely the claim that Iran was only a year or two from acquiring nuclear weapons capabilities.
Remember, at the time of the Plame outing it was not yet obvious that Iraq was a quagmire, so many in power thought that Iraq would be the “springboard” to Iran. But first they had to spike the real intelligence-gathering professionals…
I applaud Rubber Soul with a standing ovation for the perfect ‘immaculate declassification’ meme. Please take a bow for a line that will be spread far and wide by tonight. I’m still laughing my ass off.
It never ceases to amaze me the spin they get away with.Wrt to Bush authorizing Scooter to leak the NEI and blow the cover of a NOC. We are in an undeclared war. Bushco states that we are , in fact, at war. Leaking the NIE to out Valerie is Treason. Black and white. Now they are trying to spin it as “in the publics interest’.Scooter is on trial for blocking attempts to investigate the ‘original sin’ as it were.So now Bush comes out and says it’s legal. Anyone else here seeing a pattern?I cannot ,for the life of me, see why someone has not flat out brought charges against these people. A censure motion, to me, is fly swatting at this point.
you know damn well that if “immaculate declassification” gets used on TV, that blowhard from the Catholic Defense League will be given time to holler about how its more proof that the media hates Christianity …
so … will we see an increase in support for Censure? for Impeachment?
Let’s make sure we use this easter congressional break well!
Bustednuckles -
I’m with YOU on that point. All this admonitory clucking, too, regarding the assiduous Due Process to be accorded these men. In my recurrently fevered Dirty Harry Moments thinking about these pukes, I’m in favor of applying their own M.O. toward “terrist suspects” on THEM; simply arrest and hold ‘em out of sight, out of reach indefinitely (after all, we got “reasonable grounds” here) until we can get around to processing them.
88 Shez says:
April 9th, 2006 at 1:27 pm
Is ‘immaculate deception’ another possible description?
For Fitz to become AG in the next Dem administrastion in ‘08 is not a good idea not because the man is not deserving but because it will be seen as payback by the right wing (regardless of the outcome of the investigation), and they will make life miserable for him.
There are other paths he can take after he has had enough of being a US attorney, and still make a contribution — a judgeship or teaching. I see him either as a future member of SCOTUS or dean of a law school, or a university president.
Fitz could go to the Hague and prosecute war criminals.
Stephen, you just read my mind! Both ‘immaculate declassification’ and ‘immaculate deception’ work for me. Let the fundies holler, the satire is sublime and right on point.
marky
I like it! Too simple to be wholly encompassing, but sure!
And enrich the Saudis
orange, 94
Actually ‘payback’ was not the best choice of word. ‘Reward’ is better.
Shez #88
Thank you, Thank you very much. (bowing)
*ilson #90 As a long lapsed Catholic I don’t give a damn if it give them a heart attack!
We love the original work and thoughtful posts here at Firedoglake, like this one. We find them enlightening & not something we see at every other blog or copied in entirety from another blog. You continue to do good honest work for the cause even in your post-prosecutor phase.
Actually ‘payback’ was not the best choice of word. ‘Reward’ is better.
Personally, I would like to see a Medal of Freedom, Bestowed by our next Democrat President.
Cthegee, thanks. I’m reasoning that impending oil shortages are the motive. Because the Saudis are our allies, we can trust they will sell oil to the US first. The same is not true for Iran and Iraq, obviously.
I do think my theory is crazy on economic grounds, but i’m trying to find an explanation which fits the facts.
Fitz attended Regis High School in New York. Their motto is “men [it’s an all boy’s school] for others.” He learned well there.
For anyone not reading the WaPoo blog here’s a tidbit that got a laugh out of me too:
I just tried the new search function. Interestingly enough it worked the first time I tried it.
I searched “evidence that abramoff directed clients to give to democrats”.
Result? “No Results Found”. Just as I suspected.
Posted by: space | April 6, 2006 06:32 PM