plotz

Fitz! (After the last thread, I couldn’t resist!)

Fitz! (me neither!)

mattsmom – Hey, you an adult?

Cassius! (whatta hunk!)

I’m in Saudi Arabia and President Bush is planning to bomb Iran. (I just read the Hersh article.)

Oh crap! What am I doing here?

Senator Dewhine can expect a phone call.

I am old enough to vote and buy a house without a co-signer and have a 7-year old son named (surprise!) Matt.

Not sure that any of that makes me an adult, though!

I have been lurking here for a while . . . you all are so witty and have such relevant things to say (most of the time ;-> ) that I don’t think I’ve posted more than once or twice out of feelings of inadequacy.

Thanks for asking, though.

bring our fighters and our fight home. Over here, not over there.

Let’s fight the radcons here (by getting them out of office) so they dont’ send our children to die over there, for nothing.

Senators Cantwell and Murray will hear from me this week. Again. ;)

mattsmom – So, does it make any difference to a mom of Matt that we might bomb Iran? Does it sould reasonable to you? Everyone can post here. Especially those who haven’t been heard. Please. What’s on your mind? Except Fitz, of course. You bad girl. :)

Thanks to lengthy excerpts from that New York Magazine profile of Senator Chuck Schumer (who is running the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee) which were included in a Daily Kos diary today, I have now read many of the details that I couldn’t otherwise bring myself to read when Jane linked to them here earlier.

Chuck Schumer is fighting World War Two using World War One strategy and tactics. Events have overtaken him, and he is oblivious to the new realities that surround him. There is no future in the “center” of No Man’s Land between Right on one side and Wrong on the other. But Chuck Schumer has staked his personal reputation and the future of not only “his” political party but OUR COUNTRY on occupying No Man’s Land from now through 2008.

His fellow Congressional Democrats don’t just lack the nerve to challenge and confront the professional Republican liars in Washington, D.C. Harry Reid, Dick Durbin and the rest lack even the nerve to challenge Chuck Schumer of their own party on his unprincipled goal of winning power at any cost, as he rides roughshod over everyone else in the Caucus ON BEHALF OF people like Ben Nelson of Nebraska. Which put together quite simply qualifies as a Suicide Pact by the Congressional Democrats and their party.

Senator Ben Nelson’s own sister called up a radio show during the Alito battle to tell us that Ben was going to vote for Alito (despite his sister’s pleas to him) because, Ben told her, he “owed it to the President.” Ex-Insurance Executive Ben Nelson’s personal loyalty belongs to George W. Bush, and Chuck Schumer is demanding that Reid and Durbin do nothing to damage the fragile relationship between Ben and George for the “good” of the Democratic Party….!!!

Now we know where the Alito non-filibuster came from. Now we know where the roll-over on the Patriot Act reauthorization came from. And now we know how the Liebermans, Landrieus, Pryors, Johnsons, and Nelsons are ENABLED inside the Democratic Caucus. Such enabling ENSURES a lack of unity by the Democratic Party, and ENCOURAGES party pandering to imaginary voters out there in No Man’s Land. Harry Reid and Dick Durbin are better than this, but apparently unable to re-assert control over the monster they have unleashed. A monster who is sick of serving in the Senate, and wanted to run for governor of New York. A monster who is practicing the highest art form of Republican-lite behavior, and if “his” candidates succeed this fall because the voters do the only thing they can to save this country despite his sick strategy, will DEMAND that this path to “victory” HE “created” be the blueprint for the party’s approach to 2008, which will start on January 1, 2007. You think Ben Nelson will be ready to vote for impeachment next year if the Democrats are in the majority? Because if he isn’t, NO ONE will, or should, be ready, according to the dictates of Chuck Schumer’s GRAND PLAN of POLITICS.

I just read the Hersh article. Surely Iran has to be our principal focus now. This is madness. I will talk with my Senators (Maryland).

evertime I hear the rolling thunder,
I turn around before the lightning strikes…
and don’t that make me start and wonder..
(sheryl crowe says it so well)
don want to let the good times pass me by
gonna rock and roll!

Mattsmom: you’re an adult.

Oh, don’t get me in the middle of the debate about what Jane and Christy post on . . . they are great and I love that they focus on what they know about.

That said, yes, as a mother, it makes a difference to me about Iraq; there’s quite a few other blogs that are talking about it quite well – thinkprogress.org and Digby, for instance. (I lurk there, too, and at Atrios and TalkLeft and about 10 other progressive or left-leaning blogs.)

Rats. I’m always off thread, out of the loop. Whatever. But in regard to the last thread and this, is there such a bright line between Traitorgate and Iran–if Bush got it SO wrong the first time, and leaked and lied to go into that war, isn’t relevant to his Iraq missteps (understatement there) to oppose him on even thinking about Iran? I’m having trouble separating my opposition to Iraq from my freaking out about Iran. And I’m not suggesting Pach or Christy or Jane address it but allow us to use this space to do as Marky suggested and emulate the efforts of me3. Does that make sense?

This question keeps occuring to me every time the subject of going to a Senator’s office comes up – Whom should we ask to speak with? Or is anyone who is working in the office likely to be worth talking to. Social awkwardness often prevents me from figuring these things out on the fly.

thanks for a simple clear battleplan Pach. let’s go get ‘em!

*ilson46201 – Met him one time many years ago here in Encinitas. Nice Gentleman. He maybe was the greatest heavy weight ever. Just like he said. It ain’t bragin if you can do it.

Duh, now I’ve made my first mis-posting . . . it not only makes a difference to me about Iraq, but I meant to say Iran. I fear that Bush and his administration are going to use nuclear weapons and start WWIII. I wonder when we (regular people) are going to have enough and begin protesting in the streets.

EPU’d (assuming that’s still ok):

Sy Hersh is plugged in like Bob Woodward wishes he was. Hersh was months ahead of the curve on torture and rendition. Unfortunately, he seems to rarely be wrong. You may now offically color me scared shitless.

I have an eighteen year old son who could end up as fodder for these insane fucks. The time for political gains, or games, is over. They must go, and right fucking now.

I’ll be writing tomorrow – no time to go see Sen Bayh. I’d rather talk to his wife anyway – she’s much more qualified and intelligent.

IMO Seymour Hersh’s article about using nuclear bunker busters against Iran, immediately raises two important issues. 1) Where is the nuclear fallout going to blow?; 2) How do you do bda (bomb damage assessment) on a below ground target, buried in nuclear waste?
I realize the use of nuclear weapons raises lots of other issues as well, but imo, these two questions will have the greatest currency with the corporate media, Congress, and current discourse about our Intelligence capabilties.
Yesterday, Scott McClellan in his WH Press Bluffing said: “there’s a distinction between declassifying information that is in the public interest and the unauthorized disclosure of classified information that could compromise our nation’s security.”
If the White House has information that nuclear dust clouds aren’t going to rotate the globe numerous times killing lots of people, including U.S. citizens, I think sharing those findings is in the “public interest.”
Props to siun for raising this issue prior thread.

Excellent! Di Fi especially has a lot of explainin’ to do & love the idea of organizing or joining a delegation for the trek to SF. Many thanks!

Has Bush been asked about the possibility of using nuclear weapons on Iran? I don’t think there is any reason he can’t take their use off the table without still retaining the option of force. If he refuses to abjure the use of nuclear weapons, we can reasonably infer he plans to use them, and act accordingly (pray, eat last meal, etc.)

Cujo – you simply call and request a meeting as a consituent. It’s really best if you have a group since several voters get more attention than one. Also, congresscritters often announce (check their website) some form of town hall or open house while they are in the district – these are open meetings where anyone can come by and raise an issue.

Most senators also have a staffer assigned to specific issues – depends on the size of each staff as to how specialized they are. These are very good people to meet with or talk to since they are the person the senator turns to for advice on that specific issue. Get their ear by raising serious questions backed with research or thoughtful analysis – you make yourself a resource for them in their work of keeping up on their assigned topic.

Let’s do it!

I’m up for Chicago meetings (Pach – I’ll email) and can clear my schedule almost anytime other folks are available)

Ali was here in Indianapolis a few years ago to do a fundraiser for our Congresswoman (who’s Black) but the majority attending were aging white jocks who wanted pictures with him … very successful!

It’s not just the Schummers, clintons, nelsons, and others high profile democrats like them who are infected with this hesitancy, this abject grovelling to satisfy the blood lust of his royal highness the Bush Cabal.
At a democrat breakfast this morning I was at odds with a fella who wants to challenge our repuke incumbent because he has his own plan on how to fix Iraq and deal with the immigrants, and I said you don’t sound any different than the repuke, why should i vote for you?…DAMM. At least we sit at a table together, but we must fight, win or lose!

I have to say that I believe individuals going to see in person probably won’t make much of an impact. Groups make an impact. Here’s why. When you go as one person they will ignore you and get rid of you. As a group you can clog the office doorway and get their attention so they have to sit down to talk to you or arrest you. Now, what would happen if a million people decide to show up? I’m thinkin that would be beter. No?

pachacutec,

thank you for initiating this action!

may i just add that meeting other FDLers face to face has all kinds of benefits (it’s fun, inspirational and practical)? it makes taking a new action so much easier to do if we don’t have to do it alone. i’d even suggest that for those of us who haven’t ever written an LTE and would consider it now – maybe pach would be willing connect us up with another local FDLer to write it with?

IMO Schmuckie Schumur is a lot worse than Ben Nelson. Nebraska is a red, red state. It’s entire northern border is South Dakota.

Obama is having an open Town Hall – anyone up for going with me?

Senator Obama’s calendar of public events
Chicago Lake Shore Town Hall Meeting with Senator Obama
April 10 at 02:00 AM

WASHINGTON – U.S. Senator Barack Obama (D-IL) today announced that on Monday, April 10, he will hold a town hall meeting at Loyola University’s Lake Shore Campus in Chicago.

“Too often, politicians end up representing Washington to their constituents rather than representing their constituents in Washington,” said Obama. “These town hall meetings give me the opportunity to hear directly from people in Illinois about the issues affecting their lives and how I can help. It also gives me a chance to talk with them about the issues I’ve been working on in the Senate, like increased security at chemical plants, my plan to help reduce the influence of lobbyists in Washington, and how we can help reduce our nation’s dependence on foreign oil”

Chicago Lake Shore Town Hall Meeting with Senator Obama
Date: Monday, April 10
Time: 2:00 PM CT

Place: Loyola Lake Shore Campus, Joseph Gentile Center
6525 N. Sheridan Road
Chicago, IL

***Please Note: Doors open at 1:15 PM CT***

mattsmom – Oh, heck. Misposting is quite common. I do it several times a day. Doesn’t even get commented on here. I’m with you we need some sort of public showing in Wash. However, it will be tough. The thugs count on us being too weak to do it. I’d say that are right so far. People need to put the country first. Take a couple weeks off. Quit the job and go by the millions. You know that takes a lot of guts.

For those who email me, my goal is to connect and create local activist cells. They can perform LTE support as well. Connecting with Drinking Liberally is a good idea too. That’s a social organization, but those social netowrks also feed activism.

Crashing the gate only happens if we really swamp the party at the local level. DC is not really where it’s at. DC follows more than it leads (and how!).

Jane has also asked me to head up the Roots Project. We have six states where we’ve already created groups for local action, but we hope to expand the Roots initiative throughout the year. We have plans. Getting me your email addresses and state information will help me plug you into the Roots Project.

FDL has become noteworthy for its activist community. We raise money and take action all out of proportion to our size, when you look at other progressive blogs. We want to build on that and develop it as one of our core competencies, but we need your help.

Obama is having an open Town Hall -

Senator Obama’s calendar of public events
Chicago Lake Shore Town Hall Meeting with Senator Obama
April 10 at 02:00 AM…

Shouldn’t be hard to get a good seat….

california_reality_check @ 30

an avalanche can start with just a smallest of snowballs…. let’s be that snowball and let’s keep pushing… it may not always feel like it, but when the cause is just the path does eventually go downhill. and then we will have your million people showing up at their senators (and reps) offices!

Siun: That would be great to get to Obama. He’s been quite the company man lately, though I still hold out long term hope for him.

He talks way too much about process “what dems should do” issues, rather than just doing them or speaking directly and clearly. He has become a disappointment to his progressive base by kissing up to Lieberman. He has things to answer for.

This is the part of Sy Hersh’s article that is particularly relevent to Plame-Gate (although there is the strange synchronicity – well perhaps it was just cavalier carelessness – in which the cover blown by Novak’s article was purportedly working on WMD in IRAN!);

In recent months, the Pakistani government has given the U.S. new access to A. Q. Khan, the so-called father of the Pakistani atomic bomb. Khan, who is now living under house arrest in Islamabad, is accused of setting up a black market in nuclear materials; he made at least one clandestine visit to Tehran in the late nineteen-eighties. In the most recent interrogations, Khan has provided information on Iran’s weapons design and its time line for building a bomb. “The picture is of ‘unquestionable danger,’ †the former senior intelligence official said. (The Pentagon adviser also confirmed that Khan has been “singing like a canary.â€) The concern, the former senior official said, is that “Khan has credibility problems. He is suggestible, and he’s telling the neoconservatives what they want to hearâ€â€”or what might be useful to Pakistan’s President, Pervez Musharraf, who is under pressure to assist Washington in the war on terror.

“I think Khan’s leading us on,†the former intelligence official said. “I don’t know anybody who says, ‘Here’s the smoking gun.’ But lights are beginning to blink. He’s feeding us information on the time line, and targeting information is coming in from our own sources— sensors and the covert teams. The C.I.A., which was so burned by Iraqi W.M.D., is going to the Pentagon and the Vice-President’s office saying, ‘It’s all new stuff.’ People in the Administration are saying, ‘We’ve got enough.’ â€

The Administration’s case against Iran is compromised by its history of promoting false intelligence on Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction. In a recent essay on the Foreign Policy Web site, entitled “Fool Me Twice,†Joseph Cirincione, the director for nonproliferation at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, wrote, “The unfolding administration strategy appears to be an effort to repeat its successful campaign for the Iraq war.†He noted several parallels:

“The vice president of the United States gives a major speech focused on the threat from an oil-rich nation in the Middle East. The U.S. Secretary of State tells Congress that the same nation is our most serious global challenge. The Secretary of Defense calls that nation the leading supporter of global terrorism.”

Cirincione called some of the Administration’s claims about Iran “questionable†or lacking in evidence. When I spoke to him, he asked, “What do we know? What is the threat? The question is: How urgent is all this?†The answer, he said, “is in the intelligence community and the I.A.E.A.†(In August, the Washington Post reported that the most recent comprehensive National Intelligence Estimate predicted that Iran was a decade away from being a nuclear power.)

Haven’t you heard about the sabre rattling bunker busting bomb they are about to test near las vagas… the largest explosion EVER???

selise – Okay I am a small snowball. :)

I would love a Drinking Liberally for the thirty and forty-somethings in NYC. Admittedly, I only went to one, and that was more than a year ago, but I felt… old.

Sad, but true…

Chuck and Hil. Ugh. And I was so happpppy to get rid of D’Amato, but what a waste. I have been writing both of them real letters on real paper (figuring that it was novel enough that it might actually get read by one of them) which I mail in real envelops with real stamps and have never even gotten a form letter back thanking me for my good citizenship and concern and all…not from either one of them.

I live in NYC – hard to imagine getting close enough to either of them here. It would be much simpler upstate, without all the falderal.

Any suggestions?

“Divine Strake” is the test explosion – it’s not a bomb, just an awful lot of high-explosives in a granite tunnel. It’d take several giant C-5s to carry it all: 700 tons. Of course, this blast will still be smaller than the teeniest nukes…

Renska – I am over 40!

Markos is going to be at the next Drinking Liberally in Denver on April 19th. My copy of CTG will be with me — I guess I should read it between now and then.

=====

Jayt – I’m up for the Obama event. Wanna meet up & go together? email me via Pach.

and Pach – Obama’s PAC candidate selection sends a pretty clear message:
Senator Daniel K Akaka (Hawaii)
Senator Jeff Bingaman (New Mexico)
Senator Robert C Byrd (West Virginia)
Senator Maria Cantwell (Washington)
Senator Thomas R Carper (Delaware)
Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton (New York)
Senator Kent Conrad (North Dakota)
Senator Dianne Feinstein (California)
Senator Edward M Kennedy (Massachusetts)
Senator Herb Kohl (Wisconsin)
Senator Joe Lieberman (Connecticut)
Senator Ben Nelson (Nebraska)
Senator Bill Nelson (Florida)
Senator Debbie Stabenow (Michigan)

I know they are all just hurting for more cash … so glad Obama is so actively raising it for them! (pfft!)
http://hopefundamerica.com/thecandidates/

The grande dame of probity, Helen Thomas says today: “If he (McCain) wins the presidency, the country can expect a continuation of Bush’s aggressive foreign policy and untra-right domestic programs.” Can you imagine the horror of the possibility of four, or perhaps 8 more years of the Bushian theocracy?

according to the count of news stories available via Google News: the Leaker-in-Chief story is still beating bird flu and immigrants! It’s # 1

Go Fitz, go !

Breaking news- the Sunday London Times will reveal tomorrow who forged the Niger documents.

Keep your fingers crossed folks

http://www.rawstory.com/news/2….._0408.html

Siun:

Oh, for the love of Pete…Kohl is on Obama’s list? I suppose I should feel extremely lucky: 2 Dem senators, including our Russ. But Herb Kohl? Mr. Multi-Millionaire who does squat? Sheesh.

Sunday in London is less than 2 hours away: I already have the Sunday Times open in a browser window and am hitting F5 too often already

Thanks, Pach, for article and suggestions. I’ve joined Drinking Liberally — I appreciate learning about its existence. How does one email you? Where is your email address posted?

Thanks again.

fwiw: the Niger Forgeries story will appear here http://www.timesonline.co.uk/global

DefJef, here’s an article from the Post about the bomb test: http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..35_pf.html

John Casper -

I imagine that’s the exact argument I’d hear from Chuck Schumer too if I had the chance to hear his response. No offense to you, but I am so past this red and blue bullshit. What happened to being AMERICANS?

Chuck Schumer’s DSCC (which is primarily an Incumbent Protection Fund) quickly raised a ton of money FROM NEW YORKERS a year ago, to ensure that Ben Nelson would not face a significant primary challenge from a (Democratic!) Nebraska governor. The “Democratic” Senator from Nebraska is MORE CONSERVATIVE than the Republican Senator from Nebraska. The ONLY reason to support Nelson is for the kicks of political party power. He basically supports NO GOALS or PRINCIPLES the party he claims to belong to claims to possess.

Chuck Schumer ENCOURAGES the Senators from the midwest to RUN AWAY from the “taint” of people like Ted Kennedy and HIMSELF. How is someone like that ever going to be able to bring himself to explain to America in campaign ads why Bush is BAD NEWS for our national security?? Schumer will just keep running AWAY from this issue, and others, and thereby keep reinforcing the lies, UNLESS and UNTIL one or more Republicans “validate” an approach for him first, so that he can then “safely” follow their lead. Because, you see, Republicans won World War One, so obviously the trick to winning World War Two is to just follow their WWI battle plans, and make sure we safeguard that No Man’s Land, no matter the costs to our nation and our world by so doing.

P.S. This approach to confronting our Senators is excellent. I think we will probably end up compiling a record a little bit different than what we expect as a result of such office visits. I think most Senators spend their “breaks” paying not the slightest attention to their constitutents (Feingold obviously excepted). They are on vacation, fundraising, visiting Iraq, networking, and otherwise pandering, far away from the media and the people. So one question for everyone who visits a local office might be: Will the Senator be holding any public forums during this recess? And: Will he/she be visiting any of his/her local offices, and if so, when?

GOOPERS (and fence-sitters), repeat after me:

It ain’t about the break-in, or the blowjob, or the “leak”/”authorized disclosure” -

It’s about the subsequent LIES.

A good discussion of the effects of using a nuclear weapon to attempt to destroy something like a buried Iranian enrichment facility can be found here (PDF). The Federation of American Scientists is a non-partisan organization that does original unclassified research on otherwise classified issues, especially related to nuclear weapons, national security, and government secrecy.

The B61 weapon, which Hersh explicitly mentions as a candidate, has an explosive yield approximately 18 times more powerful (320 kilotons) than the bomb that destroyed Hiroshima. This is not a small device.

The fallout generated by this kind of use would be very significant. By definition, lots of dirt and rock has to be moved to be successful. When you do that with a nuclear device, you put a lot of radioactive material into the atmosphere. This is nothing at all like an underground test.

The FAS paper linked to above describes why the rationale for such use is seriously flawed. I recommend the article strongly. I will try to summarize it, probably posting a diary at kos or on a blog somewhere.

crc, yeah, cassius was a tremendous fighter, probably the most intelligent heavy ever. When I was 10 (1971), he was the single most affirming figure in my world, black, proud of it and very competent.

John Casper. Bomb damage assesment? Do you think that they would worry about that or is the point to make the ground/area inacessible to any future re-developement? Atomic or otherwise? Real question. I simply don’t understand making radioactive a major portion of the world’s energy source. This is madness.

Lobster, thanks for that.

Martha – impressive list, eh? It reads like a rollcall for the folks who give us the most trouble and it really bothers me that while Obama could be using his visibility to help upandcoming progressives, he has chosen to use it to add to the war chests of the top DINOs. Raising cash for JoeL et al sorta seals the deal for me.

Stacey B. –

The Raw Story article says that the Niger documents were forged by two employees of an embassy in Italy.

Which embassy? What kind of employees? Any guesses?

Why isn’t the statemnet by the AEIA guy that Iran is probably 10 YEARS away from a nuke talked about more? This is giving me the heebie-jeebies. Daja vue all over again.

Just like there was info refuting Saddam as a threat. It was on NPR and print. It was never repeated much, but it was there.

coriolanus: happy to contribute.

I guess I’ve officially delurked now. Been reading for a long, long time. I think I’m addicted.

Lobster -

That’s a hugely earthquake-prone area, Iran. Wonder if such blasts would be of sufficient magnitude to trigger one or more earthquakes?

Come to think of it, this pending huge non-nuke test they’re talkin’ about for NTS in June, hmmmm…in a way it’d be nice if IT triggered seismic activity in Nevada. That would be a death knell for the controversial proposed Yucca Mountain waste site. The YMP is not far from the NTS location where they wanna do that blast.

Lobster – welcome aboard! The FAS is a particularly good resource!

xyz- “embassy employees” is rather vague, isn’t it? The question is WHY did they forge the documents. Are they low level or high level and whose orders were they following?

Down the rabbit hole we go! So far, I don’t see anything about this on the news sites. As *ilson said, Sunday is almost upon us in England so we will probably find out before we all go to bed tonight. I hope :)

So, according to the Post article I posted regarding the bomb test for June, the nuclear bunker buster hasn’t been developed yet, because Congress wouldn’t fund it. I hope that’s true. Does anyone know more?

there were only 5 countries possibly involved in the Niger Forgeries (maybe 6 if Israel is included): Niger, France, Italy, UK & USA…

The thing that sticks about Ali is that he was a person of principle. He refused to be drafted into the Vietnam War and thereby was stripped of his title and lost a helluva lot of money. But the most important thing apart from him being the greatest heavy-weight ever was: this was a MAN!

All roads seemed to lead to Italy with respect to the forged docs. Josh over at talking points memo did a lot of research on this and even went to Italy to investigate.

*ilson46201 @ 69

The wording in the RAW snippet seems to imply it isn’t Italy.

OT- bush is so insincere and dishonest it’s tedious. Guess who he is blaming for the GOP’s immigration fiasco? Harry Reid. Yeah, right.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200…..pr_wh/bush

Maybe this Iran stuff is Cheney (Nixon protege) doing the make-em-think-you’re-crazy thing.

Uh, Dick – we get it, we’ve gotten it for a while.

I think Leddeen and Hadley? Perle? were in Italy. Just the right times to be involved in the Niger Forgeries.

The PNAC croud is involved somehow. This could be big., eventually.

BobbyG says:

That’s a hugely earthquake-prone area, Iran. Wonder if such blasts would be of sufficient magnitude to trigger one or more earthquakes?

Probably not. An earthquake that measures “5″ on the Richter scale is about this size (20 kilotons). Those aren’t too rare. The Richter scale is not linear, either — a “6″ earthquake is comparable to a megaton.

What I mean is, earthquakes release a lot of energy.

The FAS article is from a year ago. This idea (of using nukes for buried targets) has been on the table for a while now. Technically speaking, I think it has been batted down cleanly. However, it refuses to go away, mainly because this is a mission for nuclear weapons that has at least the patina of acceptability to the person on the street.

Hi Lobster and matt’s mom.

*ilson:

This (from Raw Story) led me to believe it very well might be an Italian Embassy but you are right, it doesn’t really specify which embassy and I read it too quickly. It could be any embassy:

“According to Nato sources who spoke under condition of anonymity with the SUNDAY TIMES, an Italian investigation has fingered two employees of an embassy in Italy with forging the documents.”

I have good news / bad news. I’m from Wisconsin. Russ needs no visit.

But Herb Kohl, senior Senator from the Badger state is a weak-kneed, rich-as-Croesus, do-nothing who has a web site on which the top line bit of news has always featured Herb in this-or-that second grade classroom, with a caption about how this powerful leader has kids as his first priority.

Which is ok–I guess–if further down the page he says something substantial about the mess in Iraq, the implosion of government, the nutcase in the White House. Never happens.

He gets a visit. . .and an earful.

I left this on another thread but wanted to repost it here. Regarding Cynthia McKinney:

U.S. Constitution: Article I: Section 6:

The Senators and Representatives shall receive a Compensation for their Services, to be ascertained by Law, and paid out of the Treasury of the United States. They shall in all Cases, except Treason, Felony and Breach of the Peace, be privileged from Arrest during their Attendance at the Session of their respective Houses, and in going to and returning from the same; and for any Speech or Debate in either House, they shall not be questioned in any other Place.

Outed CIA officer was working on Iran, intelligence sources say

Outed CIA officer was working on Iran, intelligence sources sayThe revelation that Iran was the focal point of Plame’s work raises new questions as to possible other motivating factors in the White House’s decision to reveal the identity of a CIA officer working on tracking a WMD supply network to Iran, particularly when the very topic of Iran’s possible WMD capability is of such concern to the Administration.”

I just picked this up at Raw Story

http://www.rawstory.com/news/2….._0213.html

Awhile back , I posted an opinion that the outing of Plame was less about discrediting her husband,killing two birds with one stone,) than about deliberately submarining her whole operation.

Why? Because plans for going into Iran were already on the drawing board and by ruining the ability to gather intelligence, insured that Iran could and would reinstitute their Nuclear Program.

Tin Foil Hat time, I know, but Hey, considering todays news , not so much maybe?

my email is above, but I’ll write it again:

pachacutec01 at gmail dot com.

out of respect: shouldn’t Pachacutec01 be capitalized?

Renska -
Hey we have plenty of age diversity at the NYC DL. Sometimes Manhattan skews young, true but there are regulars of all ages. Certainly 30-somethings abound. We enjoy hearing your tales of what NYC was like before they updated the subway map with all those new colors.

Seriously though. If you ever come to DL in Williamsburg/Greenpoint (the one I cohost)I promise you won’t feel old.

Heck, I’ve sent my 61 year old dad to one of the two DL’s in DC and he says he wasn’t the oldest person even.

Kathi/Nanakat – on the same page as you. Outing Plame was more about destroying the “company’s” ability to block the faux intel that the neos depend on than discrediting Wilson – what a twofer for the neos.

coriolanus, I agree that hitting Iran’s nuclear weapons making capabilty with a nuclear weapon is madness. IMO, the value of bda comes in translating that “madness” into a soundbyte that the corporate media and Congress will understand. IMO, a pre-strike debate on bda has value, especially for those who don’t share our aversion to nuclear weapons. I am hoping that these people will be interested in the fact that without bda, Bush can’t confirm the destruction of Iran’s nuclear weapons making capability.

Kathi
I have always thought Plame was outed because she might find out too much about WMDs in Irag. Maybe even American’s involved (Cheney connection).

This guy Bush thinks he’s a real mean motor-scooter, who rules by devine right. After all this joker has proclaimed God speaks to and through him. Bush needs to be involved with some serious head-shrinkage. I mean we’re talking pathological here. This character’s character belongs right up there with the likes of the primo psychopaths of the twentieth century: Adolf, Benito, Pol Pot and other demented personages. I think George got pushed around a lot on the playground when he was a littler boy. Might have had something to with his profile as a spoiled rich brat, with family connections and a bad ass mommie which turned the other players on the playground sour on the boy.

Siun

Surely they were planning to use the same MO to justify going into Iran. unfortunaltely for them, they have been exposed, but it looks like they are going to try it again! This is where I agree with Pachacutecs’ post on the earlier thread about how the Libby thing and the whole war thing are joined at the waist.

Jimboman at 79 — what about a thank you visit to Feingold? I bet he’d enjoy thanks from people who believe he’s doing the right thing. :)

hey Pach

if you are lurking here, can you repeat sorta what said about that?

Damnable keyboard!!

When writing congresscritters, I strongly recommend what used to be called the penny postcard – the ones you buy at the post office for about .25. They make you keep your message short and punchy. Most places on Cap Hill (including my agency) now put their sealed mail through extremely cumbersome & timeconsuming screenings, with a fair amount of pieces getting fried/mangled/etc. Get a stack of postcards and fire em off whenever the need strikes. Even a couple sentences – or just a word or words, e.g. “censure”, “impeach”, “do not nuke Iran.” Snail mail impact, but quickest & cheapest.

http://www.rawstory.com/news/2….._0408.html

Oh — and great post, Pach. Love the thought of elected officials having to face their employers — US — and answer our questions.

It was the NIGER embassy that did the forging – what does this mean?

http://www.rawstory.com/news/2….._0408.html

Heres’ what Josh at TPM has to say:

The Italian intelligence services were centrally involved in the clandestine distribution of the forgeries and in all likelihood the creation of the forgeries themselves. Everything the Italian government has done since then has been to impede any outside investigation into their role.

There’s simply no reason to credit anything an Italian government investigation of this matter reveals. If anything, its findings are probably a good bet to be the exact opposite of what is a. And the timing of such a release is no doubt in response to indications that at least two US news organizations will release new, damaging revelations about their role in the not-too-distant future.

John Casper,

Wading through K.Phillips American Theocracy which makes seeing the world in terms of anything other than energy/empire, well, problematic. It is critical that bda is discussed for the reasons you stated and with the discussion perhaps the hidden motives of the neo-cons, oil control, will be given pause.
I’m rehearsing Cyrano de Bergerac at this time which takes place towards the end of the thirty-years war. I’d been taught that war was religious but it seems the Hapsburgs losing the Low-countries was the beginning of the Netherlands wind empire. So, it was probably a religious/Energy war similar to all of. Thanks for the feedback.

But make your postcard like a letter, i.e. a greeting and closing and most important your name and address to show you’re a legit taxpayer/constituent/employer of them and this isn’t just snail spamming.

Pach – thanks for giving us a chance to vent a bit about this so quickly! Great grass roots organizing.

mmm…Cyrano de Bergerac…

Gosh, Marshall called this one back in Nov. in his series on the forgeries.

through Ned
I mean, new thread

As Josh Marshall pointed out today, it’s an Italian investigation, so don’t expect much.

Christy – that is a GREAT idea regarding demonstrating Feingold appreciation. Showing positive support en masse. The public visibly rallying around a person to show thanks and encouragement for a person with a just cause. Russ is anything but isolated. That is the kind of band wagon activity people can feel entirely good about. I’d rather fly to Madison than go visit Wyden locally :)

The Hersh article floors me. Tough talk is something that I think is fine and Iran calls for it, but I never – especially with how things are going in Iraq – actually expected they would be serious. Nothing but disaster could come of it. I’m not big on tinfoil at all, but now I have to wonder a bit about the part towards the end of Risen’s book (if you don’t have it – go buy it now). The bit where, due to an “email accident†in 2004 it may very well be that all the CIA intelligence assets in Iran were outed and have been rolled up.

Which would mean much less ability by CIA to put checks on the system through its independent sourcing – and opens the door that much wider for Rumsfeld to do what he has been doing (per Hersh’s article) – sending in “his chain, his selections†military specialty forces in for intel. Stunned and more depressed. Please please please let there be guts and brains somewhere where it will count for something in the military.

BTW – here is a link for a map of Iran. http://www.infoplease.com/atlas/country/iran.html
Is there anyone with some knowledge of the general areas they might look at striking (or even better, some graphic capability to highlight what might be at issue, especially with respect to fallout if they use nuclear bunker busters)?

It kind of seems to me that, for example, UAE might have a stronger reaction to being downwind of nuclear fallout than to losing out on a ports deal – but I have no idea of the geographic issues. Geez, that tinfoil can be seductive – like bubblewrap. Makes you wonder how much a deal has been cut with UAE with respect to possible strike plans and use of Dubai based assets.

I also wonder from the Hersh article – who is the “one Democrat†that Bush has spoken with? Leiberman? I guess all the Republicans being called in who are gung ho see this as the way to get their incumbents re-elected and extend the coverup and get a Hawk in 2008. Are Americans going to be and stay that gullible?

Already, Bush is leaving a situation that will make whoever does succeed in the 2008 race have nothing but a series of disasters to dig us out of, as some of the worst of what has been done will inevitably come home to roost after 2008. Add on Iran – I just can’t believe the military is so far gone they will let him do it. Actually, I can believe it – I just have to disbelieve it.

*ilson and Peggy B.,

I think Laura Rozen and Josh Marshall have the forgery origin pegged to two employees at the Turkish embassy in Rome, right after they were observed meeting with Mike Ledeen’s cutout. Don’t have a link.

Coriolanus,

Never quite thought of the Dutch Empire as a “wind empire,” but that pretty much is what fueled their empire. I guess chocolate and a lot of strong coffee might have had something to do with it too.

Sharkbabe,

yeah! The french voted him the greatest character in literature. When listening to his yearning for integrity, independence, honesty and desire for life, It gives me hope. And I think of Fitz!

Is there any value in corresponding directly with the military with regard to opposing a military strike on Iran?

OT – from way below. Chicago Dyke – is that book confiscation (Phillip’s book) confirmed?

My head hurts.

you got Ali’s okay to use him as our symbol? cool!

Besides Drinking Liberally there are Democracy for America chapters in all 50 states & 40 groups internationally, they are the group that continued from Dean for America. Jim Dean, Gov. Howard Deans brother. Check out Meetups at DFA
Another group is Progressive Democratic Caucus, also know as PDA

Those who have Democratic Senators…. I do not care who they are (except Lieberman) lucky.
1. Mcain Plans for break – “There are no current upcoming events”
2. Jon Kyl – “There are no current upcoming events”
McCain comes back to AZ frequently but NO ONE seems him. Kyl is nicknamed “The Absent Senator”.

And after my one and only Townhall given by JD Hayworth…. I needed to follow the event with three showers and full bottle of Shiraz to scrub my brain….. Still get the cooties shiver when I think of that event!

I prefer to think of the bomb-Iran scare as just so much sabre-rattling intended to scare the Iranian mullahs into coming to the bargaining table to strike a deal on nuclear enrichment and inspection guarantees.

However, I don’t think this scare will work to deter the Iranians, because they expect that they have an equally powerful bargaining chip: instability in Iraq, oil, and command of the Straits of Hormuz.

The danger here, I think, comes from the conjunction of two factors: the significantly weakened position of Bushco as shown by the political polls in the context of an expected electoral showdown in November, and the trigger-happy propensity of that gang as shown by the Iraq misadventure. Their history has shown that they are fundamentally driven by the objective of advancing their own political position. Therefore, the resort to an extreme of actually deploying the nuclear option in Iran cannot simply be ruled out.

It may be wishful thinking to hope that they settle for cranking up the sabre-rattling engine as a way of restoring their political fortunes in November without going to the extreme option. And maybe the threat of an economic disaster coming from an explosion in the oil market will encourage the corporate oligarchy to pull them back from the brink.

But one can wish, no? In the meantime, it is necessary to expose the madness that this nuclear threat entails and work to cut off the political wings of the Bushco gang in November and 08.

Thanks very much coriolanus. “Break a leg” with Cyrano.

new thread: “Who will be Leibermann’s Harry Taylor?”

As to the questions on fallout from Iranian bunker-busting, the prevailing winds are from the west, so Pakistan and Afghanistan would get a lot of it. Central Asia and China would probably get some.

Most of the nuclear facilities are in western Iran (Natanz is almost on the border with Iraq), so maybe the planners (planners?) are figuring most of the fallout will come down in Iraq.

The weather on the day of the strike would make a difference, too, so there could be backwash toward the UAE (something like this happened to spread Chernobyl fallout to Sweden and France).

#40 DefJef says:
April 8th, 2006 at 1:51 pm
Haven’t you heard about the sabre rattling bunker busting bomb they are about to test near las vagas… the largest explosion EVER???

You’ve never heard of the Amchitka test, I gather. It was 100 megatons, maybe more, and there were very real worries about triggering earthquakes or worse. Didn’t happen, but they haven’t (AFAIK) done a test that large since then either.

Nuking Iran is really stupid if only because the fallout will affect a lot of countries that are quite capable of causing trouble, including Pakistan, India, and China. I don’t think buying mangos would get us out of this one.

Boy do I hope someone gives Obama a good talking to at the open forum.

Monday, I’ll call the Illinois Senators offices to see if there are other Town Halls scheduled.

Pach: I spent the evening with two Republicans last night but don’t tell anyone.

We talked to 3:00 in the morning and I recommended this site to them. (Hi-buddies!)

Anyhow, it was decided by the three of us that all politicians strive to divide voters ONLY to win elections. If the electorate banded together, they would be screwed. And I believe it is happening big time. They are so done with this administration and they also wanted a peaceful place to live, mow their lawns, raise their kids, etc. They agreed with me that almost every one of them should be shamed out of office.

The evening ended when one said he would be tempted to vote Democratic if Zell Miller ran. I grabbed by bottle of tequila rose and got the heck out of there!

This past week I bought 100 postcards, prestamped – 26 cents each – and just wrote one to Sen. Harkin, Iowa who was on a few left radio shows this week. He has a web site TomHarkin.com on which you can sign a petition to support the censure. This is what he was promoting and did he sound mad at times. He is very upset with Bush’s inaction on preparation for the bird flu. Go to his website and sign the petition.

Thanks to everyone who emailed me. I think by now you have all heard back form me, and if I missed you, please email me again.

Let me emphasize: JUST PUT YOUR STATE IN THE SUBJECT LINE. I get a lot of email and if I lost you the first time around, it may be because your subject line was not clear enough. But you’re all s/heroes for stepping forward.

It’s not too late to come forward. I still need people to coordinate with some lone emails I got from CT, NH, TX, and probably a couple of other states. I’m losing track.

The good news is, once I get a few of you set up in your own google group, you can take the ball and run with it yourselves, even as I and some others are there to support you.

Cheers!

Pachacutec01 at gmail dot com

Jimboman, Martha and any other Wisconites here, I’m trying to get a visit to Kohl’s Madison office together. Any takers? Pach tells me only two people have signed up from Wisconsin so far, which seems kind of low especially from Feingold’s home state. I know that have such ass-kissing representation in Congress can lead you to get complacent (living in Madison, I’m represented by Tammy Baldwin, Russ Feingold, and Herb Kohl. If Herb Kohl is the worst you can do in Congress, you’re in pretty good shape), but we need to make ourselves heard. So all you Wisconsinite lurkers out there drop Pach a line.

timewarp — I, too, am in NYC. Hmmm. Anyone else?

Damn! I tried all day, unsuccessefully, to convince myself that if I went away this incredibly horrid “story” would go away, be disproven, by 10:00 PDT. I have two Democratic Senators, and they will hear from me. I also have a slew of Democratic State of WA office holders I will be contacting. This is not only a matter for national politics and outrage! Can’t it be April 1st again? Please?

pachacutec01 at gmail dot com

Drat, Pach#120 doesn’t show “01″

Citzen Action Update:

I can’t tell you all how frustrated I am that Google is putting a hold on my adding more people to state based networking groups due to high activity on my part. They need to be reviewed, and I guess today is a dead day for review. Please be patient if you have emailed me, and let me repeat, if you email me PUT ONLY YOUR STATE – NOT YOUR CITY OR ANYTHING ELSE – IN YOUR SUBJECT LINE!!

Thanks.

Pachacutec01 at gmail dot com