
Readers will no doubt recall the icky saga of Brian Doyle, the Deputy Press Secretary at Homeland Security who was arrested last week for allegedly talking dirty with a minor over the internet, sending out dirty pictures and a whole lot more. When I wrote my article about the arrest, I talked a little about the need for better background checks at the DHS.
There were some questions at the time of the article as to whether or not a background check would have turned up anything about Mr. Doyle that would have raised flags about this latest arrest. Or about anything at all -- the assumption from the questioners being that Homeland Security did some sort of background check on Mr. Doyle and that he screened through okay, I suppose. Color me skeptical.
Well, this morning I started crusing through my usual blog reads -- and look what Jeralyn found:
But this is not the first time Doyle's alleged Internet habits have got him in trouble. A source told CBSNews.com that while working at Time magazine's Washington bureau, managers discovered that Doyle had been looking at pornography on a receptionist's computer late at night.He admitted to the incident, was reprimanded, and was asked to give a formal apology to staffers, the source said.
Homeland Security Director Michael Chertoff's reaction to this discovery? It was essentially, "Shit happens." Let's be clear, as deputy press secretary, Mr. Doyle would have certainly had access to some high level clearance information -- you know, things like port security documents and information; airport security documents and information -- all those things they are supposed to be doing to keep us safe. Keeping that information out of the hands of people who want to harm us ought to be a big priority, right?
As reader looseheadprop said about background checks:
An FBI background check includes not only disclosures the subject makes by filling out forms that you cannot believe—sooo much detail–plus records checks for thing like criminal records, DMV, and taxes.It also involves FBI agents going to every neighborhood you have ever lived in and questioning a minimum of 2 unrelated neighbors who remember you.
Also, the FBI asks you for a list of references and then asks each of those people for the names of two others not already on your list, and asks those people for two more and so on and so on until they just keep getting duplicates.
I was still a law student when I had my first B/G check. It took months. Hell, they located my kindergarten teacher! (We had a nice telephone reunion)
It has to be redone every five years even if you are still with the gov’t. I still get interviewed when they do the updates on agents and AUSA’s I have known.
If this guy was in the press office at DHS he is potentially exposed to tons of sensitive info. It is beyond outrageous if this guy was not B/G checked. And if a check was done in-house, what the F*** does that say about the competence of DHS to protect us from—–anything.
Congressman Peter King, head of the Homeland Security committee in the House, was appalled:
House Homeland Security Committee Chairman Peter King, R-N.Y., has vowed to investigate the department's hiring procedures."If there was an incident at Time magazine, Homeland Security above all should have found it," King told the Washington Post. "Homeland Security is our last line of defense, and to be taken seriously, you have to have very, very strict security standards."
Federal officials would not say if investigators became aware of the incident at Time when they conducted a background check on Doyle in 2004, the Post reports.
And Chertoff's response when asked if an employee with access to high level security information on a daily basis who might be compromised by an underage porn issue would be a potential security problem for the DHS?
Chertoff, noting that "individuals will misstep," said he doubted Doyle's offense created a risk to national security based on the allegations.But he added: "We are always focused on tightening our security. We will certainly cooperate with Congress.
So, let's recap with some shorter Chertoff: Shit happens. A predeliction for underage girlies wouldn't open a door for potential blackmail. No security risk there. Nothing to see.
Good heavens, our national security is in the hands of a bunch of incompetent morons who have no concept of the purpose of a background check. How about some accountability from Michael Chertoff instead of just the same old brush off? Is that too much to ask?
Feeling safer? Me, neither.
(Note: Although there is a question of liability on Time's part if they disclose this sort of thing about a former employee, I am told, by a reliable source. Corporations are put in a bind as to what they can or cannot disclose about former employees when they are phoned by potential new employers. Not sure how this would work on a background check for a high level security clearance sort of job. If anyone has insights or has worked with this, I'd love your input. For example, if a former employer fires someone for stealing and a prospective employer calls tham as a reference and they are told that the employee was fired for stealing -- and then they don't hire that person for that reason -- in some jurisdictions, the former employer can be sued by the stealing employee.)
(Sometimes, you just see something that is too perfect. This cartoon made me laugh out loud for five minutes. It's a Bennett.)
UPDATE: Okay, let me make this perfectly clear for everyone: According to the news article, Doyle was using someone else's computer in the workplace after hours to do this. I don't care what kind of porn he was looking at -- imagine finding out that someone was using your desk after hours to do anything? If it were kiddie porn, I can tell you that had he been turned in every computer on the network into which he had ever logged would have been seized and had the hard drive searched. Is that something you want to deal with as an employer? Let alone as an employee whose computer (and all your work product) gets seized along with it? Good heavens, the porn part isn't even the issue for me -- it's the fact that he clearly knew there was some policy issue that he was trying to get around, and maneuvered to do so by using other people's workstations. If you don't think that raises a security risk question, then you have the same issues as "Shit happens" Chertoff.
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They didn’t have that in his personnel file at Time? You are kidding me. These guys can’t even handle the basics. Can we impeach Bush on the grounds of total incompetence?
Bush is going to bomb IRAN:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20.....armilitary
And what if Joe Lieberman is the Dem in Hersch’s story helping him plan it? That would explain this story
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/4/8/111231/7033
Trouble in Venezuela too.
Looks like the US is beset on all sides as of late. From within….we talk shit to China, Russia, Syria, Venezuela, Iran, Palestine.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200....._venezuela
-GSD
Oops. I was so excited to be first poster I forgot the requisite Fitz! And I spend right past the reluctant employer part, sorry. I could see where things could be dicey with revealing too much about an employee, but couldn’t they do the old raised eyebrow? A little ahem? A sort of “wellllll…” An unenthusiastic review? Or did the HR guy at HSA not pick up those signals? Criminy.
No need to check our employees,thats for the little folks-or political adversaries.
Oh,yeah….FITZ!
talk about asymmetrical! the US gets huffy about Venezuelan citizens throwing eggs at the US Ambassador’s car while the US military plans to lob nuclear weapons on Iran. Maybe the Persians will pitch falafels at Bush?
The employer liability issue is real. It happened to a client of mine.
The client is not (yet) a big business. It employs just about 15 people. A former employee was up for a clearance level position and the FBI came knocking.
This former employee had been part of a group of three prior employees who had left my client as a block, taking clients and client data with them. This was a breach of their employment agreements, and litigation ensued. My client won, but it cost a lot of money.
Fast forward to the FBI background check. My client was asked if he would trust this employee with state secrets. What to say? My client trusted this person not at all. My client answered “no.”
The FBI did not approve this person’s clearance and so he did not get the job he wanted after his pirated business venture failed. He sued my client. More litigation and expense, a real burden on any smallish business.
The threat of litigation against employers is real. They try to find a way not to say anything terribly negative while being honest.
There is a lot of energy being (rightly) expended on how to nuetralize GW Clusterfuck. There is a lot of energy being expended on the 2006 elections.
The USA is in a war that threatens to strangle it- has record deficits- is about to face energy costs that will limit it’s economic growth- is about to lose trillions in a bursting of the housing bubble- has limited it’s competitive position in the world with astronomical medical costs- faces an aging workforce- etc.
Wonder if ANYONE in the middle of all this is actually trying to figure out how to right this ship? Perhaps we are too busy worrying about who will pilot the ship to figure out where it should be navigating to?
Christy — As someone who’s been questioned all too many times about fired or otherwise dissatisfactory employees by people interested in hiring them, I can assure you that, even under normal circumstances, there are ways, even just non-verbal (tone of voice, etc.) ways, to warn these folks they’re looking at a very big problem. No, it’s not a good thing to state anything more than just their dates of employment, but still, there are ways. And I am not at all sure about what legal safeguards one has for chatting w/the FBI — otoh, doesn’t Homeland Security have it’s own, different (and supposedly, choke, superior) red tape? Thought they did.
“Not sure how this would work on a background check for a high level security clearance sort of job.”
Doyle kept his job at Time. The only way the background check would have found him is if Time disclosed it. They caught him browsing porn, not necessarily kiddie porn. One would hope if Time caught Doyle surfing kiddie porn, he would have been more than reprimanded.
I’m been background checked, and interviewed numerous times due to friends. It’s not usually the FBI, but another agency. Sometimes retired people investigators.
Some agencies have polygraph tests which are intended to determine if employees have “problems” that make them bribable.
I’m not sure any political appointees have to undergo the polygraph tests. Karl, Scooter, etc. Just the grunts probably.
I’m jumping in here fresh from Driftglass, so i don’t know if this has been mentioned already, but DO go over and read It Reads. This is an absolutely amazing read of the Jesus story in light of the new ‘Book of Judas.’
Well, I dunno.
What Doyle (allegedly) did was criminal, but do we really need to check and see whether every future government employee has ever looked at porn on a computer? Is that really predictive of later crimes? Is there evidence that people who look at porn will later try to hook up with underage girls? I’m not so sure.
I’m also eager to discredit Bushco, but I have my doubts about background checks and their utility in the context of government employment. Just what constitutes the “porn” that should preclude employment? A picture of a naked woman? This may lead in directions we wouldn’t be so happy about.
The man was charged with a crime. He may or may not be convicted. I’m not sure that, based upon what we now know, calls for greater and more intrusive background checks of prospective government employees are justified.
Just a thought.
Yep–the policy of most employers when asked about former employees is “name, rank, and serial number”. I was VP of HR at one time. The risks are too great to flap yer gums.
When someone claims a behavior is no big deal - I always wonder if that person is engaged in the ssme behavior. I think it’s time to investigate Chertoff - if kiddie porn is no biggie to him - methinks he may like the kddie porn himself. Sicko.
(forgot the whole formula)
“Fast forward to the FBI background check. My client was asked if he would trust this employee with state secrets. “
That’s usually the last question in the interview if I recall correctly…
rats!!! Go read www.driftglass.blogspot.com
OT in the narrow sense, but spot-on broadly speaking
I’m about half way through Kevin Phillips’ American Theocracy: The Peril and Politics of Radical Religion, Oil and Borrowed Money in the 21st Century, and I have to say that this is a “must read†for anyone who cares about the future of our country, regardless of his or her favorite color on the political spectrum. The broad thrust of his argument was laid out in the author’s Op Ed in last Sunday’s Washington Post, which is almost word for word what he said during his book tour touch-and-go landing at the Edina Barnes & Noble about a week ago.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....04_pf.html
What didn’t (and couldn’t, given limited time and space) come out in the Op Ed and stump speech is the detailed, often county-by-county, political analysis and deep historical perspective that underlie the assertions he makes. I haven’t yet got to his prescriptions for curing the disease (if he indeed has any), but one thing that’s already clear is that it’s going to take a lot more push-back than wooden stakes through the political hearts of Dubya and Deadeye Dick to assure our children and grandchildren a start toward living out their lives in a healthily functioning democracy. Phillips’ insights deserve a lot of consideration when centrists and progressives formulate the strategy and tactics needed to take our country back.
As I said, American Theocracy is a “Must Readâ€.
Pachacutec - Yes, the liability issue is real. It’s a management quandry what to do in these cases. Someone posted here that most people are not aware of the ip/browser history that remains in the systems and in the hard drive free sector pool. Be very careful at work. Just don’t do stuff like this. If a person is curious, do it at home. Even then NSA (gubmint) is likely to be watching.
graphicus — I’m not sure it was just “looking at porn on the computer” — whatever he was doing was serious enough to earn him a written reprimand for his file and to require him to apologize to several employees, according to the CBS News article. Now I can imagine a number of scenarios that might require apologies in the workplace — none of which I really want to think about, frankly — and I’m sure everyone else can, too. It’s one thing to look at a nudie picture on your computer that someone else sends around the office and everyone gets a laugh. It’s quite another to have, say, long-term detailed computer logs from multiple computers in the office or some other behavior that I won’t even get into here that goes beyond what you would consider a potential usual sort of scenario. You know what I mean? (She says hopefully, because she’s not really in the mood to get into THAT much detail otherwise.)
U.S. Ambassador Zalmay Khalilzad warned in an interview broadcast Friday that Iraq faces the possibility of sectarian civil war if efforts to build a national unity government do not succeed. He said such a conflict could affect the entire Middle East.
Khalilzad told the British Broadcasting Corp. that political contacts among Sunni, Shiite and Kurdish leaders were improving, but that within the general population, “polarization along sectarian lines” was intensifying — in part due to the role of armed militias.
Huffington
Biden was on Bill Maher last night saying pretty much the same thing. He thinks that the “problem” of Iraqis killing each other is serious but probably something that the US can’t stop- the larger problem is with Iraq’s neighbors taking advantage of the power vacuum in the country to exert influence. He worries most about Iran, Israel, and Turkey getting involved unilateraly in the situation.
Biden seems to think that we need to get out of the day to day policing of the civil war- and step up to the plate in discussions with the neighboring countries threatening the hell out of em if they get involved.
I’d like to know the differences in procedures in clearing the grunts versus the policy makers. (I know what the grunts go through, I’m curious about the policy makers / political appointees).
Now now asterisk alphanumerical don’t get snarky - you know as well as I do that the Iranians have a whole heap of plutonium primed pistachio nuts that they plan on ramming up a normally unmentionable part of dubya’s anatomy as violently as possible.
My understanding is that regular employers are not required to disclose any overtly private matter; they can handle it on a case-by-case basis, depending on the severity of the problem, and how close it skirts to things like invasion of privacy. I mean, would you want an employer telling another, don’t hire that person, he’s gay? However, when the FBI calls to ask about that employer vis a vis security clearances, an employer must cooperate fully. I don’t know if it’s the law, but that’s how it’s worked at the various agencies where I worked.
On the other hand… There are ways to word responses to a potential employer, a form of code-speak, that says a person had to be let go for suspicious or unethical behavior. It’s subtle. But it’s there. The Dilbert website demonstrated how this works with some goofy game they had, where you could generate reference for a former employee, without saying anything negative DIRECTLY. For instance: “You’d be lucky to get this person to work for you.” On the surface, it says, “You’re lucky if you get this person in your company.” Snark under the surface: “The guy’s a slacker, and you can HAVE him!”
Argh. First sentence shoulda read: “Regular employers dealing with other employers in the private sector are not required, & etc.”
Chuck–I’m nearly through with the book- and agree with your assessment. It’s apopolyptic literature- he is outling the end of the “American Empire”- a topic that has captured him for years.
So far no “prescriptions”- don’t think there are any. I suspect that he would say- “when it’s time for you to go- pack your bags- yer gone”.
Just when I think my outrage meter is permanently smoked, I wake up to Oh-My-God stories like this.
And no, it’s not the no-background-checks-for-pedophiles at Homeland Security; it’s the BushCo-planning-to-nuke-Iran story.
It is this paragraph that stuns me:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20.....armilitary
One former defense official said the military planning was premised on a belief that “a sustained bombing campaign in Iran will humiliate the religious leadership and lead the public to rise up and overthrow the government,” The New Yorker pointed out.
Can they possibly be that stupid? Well, yes — of course they can; this is BushCo we are talking about.
Can you say $10 per gallon gasoline? US troops fighting their way to the Turkish Border, because the Iran sinks an aircraft carrier, and the Straits of Hormuz is blocked? How about an Iranian missile into the Saudi oil terminal?
If we nuke Iran, any and all of these are possible — not to mention a nuclear counter strike, from a Russian black market suitcase nuke or a Pakistani bomb smuggled in via a container shipment of hosiery.
But this being BushCo, they expect “a sustained bombing campaign in Iran will humiliate the religious leadership and lead the public to rise up and overthrow the government” — just like the flowers and chocolates the Iraqis showered on our troops, just before we withdrew in May of 2003.
Mission Accomplished, Anyone?
If the Mission is Armageddon, maybe . . .
=====
The key question that most potential empolyers ask is “Is this person eligible for rehire”. If the answer is “no”- the past employer has told you everything they can- watch out!
A follow-up to my previous clearence question is - what is the standard procedure for investigating a security incident that involved grunts versus the procedures for investigating political appointees / policy makers? Are different methods of investigation used? Do the consequences differ?
rwcole - Sure, that will work. Threaten them. Then when THAT doesn’t work bomb the shit outa them. That’s likely to promote cooperation, don’t ya think? chimp foreign policy. Gotta love it.
california
Actually I have no idea what will work in this situation- nor do I have an idea how serious the threat of outside intervention actually is. I’m over my job grade with that whole discussion- but it sounds kinda serious.
note to self — spell check AND proof read . . .
So Chertoff and the admin. think this isn’t a problem with respect to blackmail, but hiring gays is?
So let me get this straight (no pun intended)- a guy who probably is a pedophile and internet stalker luring an underage girl (a CRIME btw) and who gives out his DHS information over the internet is not a security threat, but some guy or woman who happens to have a relationship with a person of the same sex/gender (NOT a crime unless Scalia and Santorum get their way), is a security threat?
It’s official- the conservatives have been exposed as hypocritical, hatemongering fools who don’t give a shit about national security.
Now, if Doyle WERE gay, the conservatives would be OUTRAGED, as would be Chertoff.
On the planet I grew up on, people, especially in offices of public trust, were reprimanded if they screwed up, and if those errors were egregious or frequent enough, asked to - or required to - resign. Often in disgrace. Even if they were Presidential chiefs of staff like Sherman Adams whose great crime was accepting - oh my God - a vicuna coat, or Supreme Court justices like Abe Fortas. The press actually investigated these misdeeds, the news media reported them and the public was outraged at them.
At some point I was abducted, I imagine, and I ended up here.
How I wish I could go home.
If we have to fire everyone who’s looked at porn at work, there won’t be anyone left.
It’s way past time that a REAL dialogue should begin publicly about Iraq and the future of the region. Most of what is being said at this point is grammar school bullshit.
Just saw this on Atrios’ site:
Child porn charge against DOD IPv6 director dropped. Investigation continues
“According to a statement by the DOD Inspector General’s Office, court documents alleged that Lynch had been operating a peer-to-peer file-sharing program on a computer in his office at DISA. Agents confiscated several computers and more than 1,000 CDs from Lynch’s office.” link
The Apocalypse Presidency is in its last throes.
-GSD
Biden who whored out to every warmonger in Washington has zero credibility. The same goes for American threats all it takes is one politician or one clergyman to say “yeah you and which army?” for that bluff to be called.
GSD–I think you are right- it IS in it’s last throes- which is a good thing- except for the fact that it has nearly three more years in the White House- this could get VERY ugly.
I forgot to save the link about the lady that was hassled/prevented from boarding a plane (?) because she had a copy of American Theocracy. Anyone have that handy please?
On the topic of spying,check this out,I linked to it from Crooks and Liars http://www.wired.com/news/tech.....wn_index_1
scary stuff,but we knew this shit was(is)happening.
rwcole - Okay, I’ll take a stab at what WILL work even though I’m like you on the pay grade scale. Nothin will work. We are screwed by the chimp. We are going to pay big time. Right not those folks are planning 100-500 years ahead. They don’t forget the rape of their land. I know THAT for SURE.
I would think an FBI background check would trump employer confidentiality, wouldn’t you? My father had one, I remember the neighbors sidling up to us kids afterwards, wanting to know what he’d done wrong.
My husband and his father were sued by a disgruntled former employee. Had we been able to get the straight scoop before we hired him, we would not have, for it came out at trial that he had done the same exact thing to his last two employers. While he plead poverty to us, it turned out that he had bought two houses with the proceeds of his last two law suits and was planning to buy a third (Benny Golson’s neice, Punaise, is our hero. She uncovered it all.)
The secretary of our school absconded with several thousands of dollars of tuition money and some blank checks. Clearly she would never use us as a reference - and if she does, she deserves whatever happens, just on accounta - but wouldn’t we have some kind of moral duty to let her potential employer know what happened to us? Why does her right trump everyone elses? I know, the laws are there to protect employees against retaliation, but here’s the thing: We never seem to revisit laws once they’re on the books for things like unintended consequences, or to oosen a part that’s too tight. I sense a NEW RULE.
Can the president really bomb Iran under the war powers provision? If so, then congress has got to withdraw, overwrite or do whatever they need to do to make sure that he HAS to go back to them for permission to start more wars.
OR. Begin to play hardball with the defense budget. This is something the Dems could get tough on as it seems that there are more than a few rethugs who hail from districts which do not want to hear any more about any more wars.
Shez - Is this it?
http://www.correntewire.com/bo.....rom_flying
JWR, Yes! Thank you thank you!
For the first time, a RH post makes me wonder a bit. We seem to be suggesting here - perhaps just by implication - that there is a necessary link between viewing pornography, which according to CNN was “adult” and by other accounts “usual” and pedophilia. It doesn’t really follow that a BG check turning up the information about Time would have necessarily meant that BD was a risk, does it? Or if it does shouldn’t we be worried about this? I don’t really feel like we should be encouraging alarmist reactions to the fact that he was looking at porn by himself late at night. It’s a giant leap from that moment to the moment of stalking a 14yo girl and there does not need to be any logical connection between the two events or again, if there is, I am worried.
graphicus: I agree. We have to be very careful unleashing the all too eager sex police. I’m a gay man with a long memory. Hell, until Bowers v. Hardwick, we were all serial felons here in Virginia and elsewhere (so were most straight folks, but the laws were only ever used against us).
Christy makes a good point that what little we know about the previous employment incident allows for a wide range of possible behaviors. I would expect the apologies he was forced to make were preemptive against the possibility of any sexual harrassment claims. That would suggest others became aware of his viewing (apparently legal) porn in the office. Not to take an aggressive stand as an employer, once such activity is uncovered, means risking future suit based on allowing a histile work environment to develop.
On a lot of these issues, I tend to find myself with an approach more like what I interpret Jeralyn’s to be: wary of state and prosecutorial overreach, and of the use of criminal law to oppress minorities. Christy shares those values while thinking more like a prosecutor, fairly representing the other side of the equation.
timewarp - I agree completely. However, I see no spine. None. We are just going to be sucked down deeper into the rat hole. It is unbelievable!
that should, of course, be loosen, not oosen.
#34 HAHAHAHAHA. Yeah.
DiMe 48,
I don’t think the issue is whether or not he was prone to pedophilia if he was looking at porn. At least not the main issue. But people who work in high security jobs are vulnerable to blackmail - if - they have skeletons in their closet. Spilling national security secrets so that his sife, for instance, doesn’t find out about his porn obsession, or perhaps even addiction?
Graphicus and slothrop:
Even with the argument of going after employees looking at porn, we can draw a distinct line between somebody looking at Lesbian Big Boob Bangeroo and somebody looking at KIDDIE PORN. Which is one that can really get a person in trouble? Which one indicates that the person could be more susceptible to blackmail–i.e., a security risk?
As always, the issue is more nuanced than the surface indicates. Most people who hear about a guy looking at Lesbian Big Boob Bangeroo (and it’s a real porn movie) think he’s weird, but not a disturbed freak. If we hear that he likes to look at little children engaging in sex acts, we’re thinking about protecting our kids from him by putting him in a mental ward or in prison.
The conversation here has taken a very manangement-favored tone. Watch out for those crafty workers! They’re BAD!
It’s been a few years since I’ve practiced in the employment area, but when I did, we would advise clients to require a waiver from the former employee before responding with more than employment dates. Most former employees wanted the reference and signed the waiver without objection, and those that declined, well that told the prospective employer something. I can’t imagine that the government doesn’t require something similar so that it can get full information.
DiMe - Well, of couse there is a distinction. At least in my mind. The porn issue is a slipery slope. What I call objectionable you may not, etc. I don’t think it really matters onless one is able to connect the dots to a socially unacceptable behavior. On the other hand some folks in the south feel incest is okay. This whole issue is largely a matter of perception. My personal line and concern is children or forced stuff.
I’m a fed and I can tell you that looking at porn, soft or hard, on a government-owned computer is definitely a no-no. It’s a zero-tolerance offense (at least theoretically).
My understanding of security clearance background checks is that they are designed to assess three things: sex, drugs, and money-not that there is an effort to make a moral judgement on one’s sexuality, getting high, or having credit card debt, but significant issues in any one, or all, of those areas opens one up to varying degrees of blackmail.
Because I have an uncanny grasp of the obvious, I think it’s safe to say that a high ranking DHS official soliciting a 14-year old girl for sex over the internet is a potential security disaster.
And any other high ranking government official who minimizes this fact is, in my mind, a security risk her/himself.
(BTW, look for Doyle’s defense to be, “I was conducting my own investigation.”)
Doyle was looking at porn on SOMEONE ELSE’S PC… specifically, using some poor receptionist’s machine to surf his jollies. So he knew very well that the Time server would flag the PC in question, and deliberately used an underling’s machine rather than his own so he wouldn’t be “outed”. Obviously, it didn’t work at Time, which apparently has better security than the DHS. But it indicates that Doyle isn’t just a perv, and a moron, but also the kind of jerk who uses those lower on the corporate ladder. Big surprise, right?
Nobody at Time HR had to say “We caught him looking at naughty pictures.” The correct formulation would have been “He was given a written reprimand for using other employees’ machines to surf firewall-flagged non-work-related sites during off-hours.” At that point, the security questioners could have asked Doyle what he was looking at and why he didn’t use his own machine to look. Of course, if he’d said he was looking for a way to contribute to the DNC website anonymously, they probably wouldn’t have hired him!
The prosecutor’s mind set is as frightening as Bush & co. Why the moral panic over this guy? He allegedly looked at pr0n, and in an earlier entry Smith was using the sex-fearing-US-definition of “pedophile” to describe a man allegedly lusting after a 14-year-old (presumably not pre-pubescent) girl.
I find it fascinating that the same folks who apparently can see that the hysterical overreaction to 9/11 led to disaster can’t see that hysterical overreaction to one government employee’s alleged sexual deviance isn’t going to lead anywhere good either.
Redd is right about the liability issue if you disclose truthful but prejudicial information about past employees. I haven’t been in a postion to hire or fire for twelve years now, but for thirteen years before that I worked in various aspects of publc safety (firefighter, harbormaster, reserve cop, government program treatment couselor, case manager, halfway house director). I hired scores of people and interviewed hundreds of inmates who wanted to get in our halfway house. I didn’t like to do thorough background checks because I’d feel intrusive. But I learned you have to do them or you get burned.
When you do a lot of these checks, you can get to tell when, if you ask an ex-employer a question about a potential hire’s job performance or character, and get a bland reply, that there’s more that went on than they’re willing to tell you. Unless I was desperate for a slot to be filled, I’d even cross those damned with faint praise off of my potential hiring lists.
The other issue about the incident at Time. He was reprimanded (we don’t know EXACTLY why). It may be that porn was not really the primary issue, rather that he was using his employer’s computer in a non-authorized way, bucking the rules. If the computer was on a network, they may not want employees using it to go to porn (and other kinds) sites due to the risk of possible infection.
So - it doesn’t matter really WHY - rather that he was. Why? Because in a job for an org like Homeland Security, the guy has got to be a straight shooter, he has to be able to play by the book. (Just imagine the Homeland SEcurity of Abu Ghraib) If he has a history of playing fast and loose with the rules of a previous employer, then it is not a good sign. Particularly because so many people who look at porn at work do so out of compulsion, that is they have little or no impulse control.
So, there are a lot of reasons why this sort of info is important. Another example would be substance abuse or addiction — it does affect one’s job performance, even when not drinking on the job per se.
When I had a background check done (when I was a fed. employee), while completing the longgg questionnaire, I had to list medical and financial information and it was stated these records could be checked. I don’t see why employment records would be excluded from this type of review.
timwarp,
fair enough, and Pachacutec’s post is compelling as well, but I wonder, too, about the idea that porn viewing is somehow possible fodder for blackmail. Why should a predilection for online porn be any different from watching cable television really (George Saunders in the recent New Yorker is hilarious on this)? But I have just taken a workplace sexual harassment education course (mandated) so I am mindful of how absolutely ridiculous the policing of workplace behavior has become.
Anne Laurie - This whole scenario is suggestive of someone who can’t restrain himself. Irresistable urge? See, now that becomes troublesome for me. One must be able to control some of one’s private urges. I mean, I can’t go around trying to kill ALL the thugs I see. It is restraint that keeps society functioning. Lack of restraint? Then one has, well, Iraq for example.
incompetence + fake “family values” = BushCo
Claude Allen, Duke Cunningham, now this? How do they keep getting away with this?
pach WRT how it’s done here (Scandinavia) the system is if somewhere has borderline or outright kiddyporn you’ll see a legal warning put up at the hosting and ISP level if you proceed you’re likely to wind up in extremely hot water.
It’s done in two languages english and Danish If you want me to send a screenshot put up your gmail addy again and I’ll send a copy of the English version to you.
I am typing to fast for a slow typer. Wrote (Just imagine the Homeland SEcurity of Abu Ghraib) I meant to say “as” Aby Ghraib, meaning that is the kind of disastor which occurs when people in power - whether it be the army or a government agency - who do not play straight.
Security reviews are supposed to occur every five years to renew the clearances. Big Whup! In 25 years with a security clearance, I was asked to supply financial information once at about year 15. I never did it. Too busy. Never heard another word. Retired after 25 years.
Not to mention that cruising porn sites at work can lead to liability for sexual harrassment…and god, imagine how that receptionist feels knowing that creepy guy was slobbering over porn on her computer after hours. She probably wanted to douse her entire work area in clorox.
porno_bob - Well, you must try to fogive us our schadenfreude moment, here. Yes, innocent until proven guilty. I really believe in that despite my recent postings. This particular issue is part of a pattern which is why it is news. This site is RIGHT to discussit. It is not pretty and that is why it needs to be discussed.
markfromireland: No thanks. I’m not going to be doing research on this stuff. Cheers!
Archana - They get away with it because NO ONE has the guts to STAND UP and call them on it. That is why I believe we (WE) have to go to Wash and STAND UP. Millions of us. And soon.
DiMe,
Well, for one thing, spouses tend not to like it. And when people have secrets, they are vulnerable. Also, if it is anything more than just looking at a little ‘light’ porn, say, if it involves children or violence (illegal porn), he is really vulnerable … as any kind of illegal behavior, esp when one is working for an agency which as a law enforcement function can leave the person vulnerable.
Porn is showing up more and more as a big issue in divorce court btw - child custody, spousal support fights. It is not a fun issue in many marriages/families.
Bob Adams,
I checked out your site. “Full Tilt” is quite a boat. Smooth sailing!
We will release an employee’s position(s) and dates of employment only. In my eperience, agents have stopped by the hr office unannounced with badge in hand. In each of the 3 instances, the empoyees were good honest people with clean files. This would be much different than the situation Pach’s client faced.
“individual’s will misstep” - what a wonderful description of Doyle’s incident. It tells us exactly how concerns Chertoff is about it. Stunning.
Yes, BD is a creep and everything else besides - but this doesn’t mean that we can take the moment of his arrest, at his computer, and generalize about every moment of online porn viewing as somehow grotesque, so much so that it needs to be super-sanitized. Doesn’t it feel like we’re in a timewarp, back in the mid 90s and worrying about the corruptions of online sexual culture?
[Insert the usual statements about the policing of desire and normative assumptions here.]
OK enough.
markfromireland - So, who maintains the filter info? Is it a gov’t function or private like Norton/McAfee? How would I get info on the system?
Incidentally pach - I agree with you about the “sexual police” aspect in the US. Ditto prosecutorial overreach. That said you have to go looking for child pornography. I personally don’t care what adults do to each other in private so long as free consent is given. My take on any activity involving kids is that by definition a child cannot give a meaningful consent and that therefore what we are actually talking about is rape. While in my private life I may be a somewhat boring old papist conservative I do separate the two my private life would probably make you keel over from sheer boredom just as yours would for me.
I also recognise that gay men in particular have long been stigmatised , entirely falsely, as being pedophiles. As a gay friend of mine puts it “if you look at any 8 year old boy - he’s not exactly masculine - I like men”
Cool pach if Section 253 of the criminal code is the one to research.
CRC it’s done by the ISPs, Rød Barnet (save the children,) and the police in collaboration.
Background checks? You guys are kidding, right? Remember Bernard Kerik?
Welcome to Republican government: The rules for the little people are designed to keep them from ever feeling secure, and the conditions for admittance are strict enough to enforce unfair hiring practices with plausible deniability. The rules for the big people are, “Hey Bill, this sweet position just opened up in DHS. Want it?”
don’t know if this will be of interest around here(!?); just saw this at raw story, sorry if it’s a retread:
Washington Post searching for bloggers from the right and left
Ron Brynaert
Published: Friday April 7, 2006
This time around the Washington Post plans to hire two bloggers for its Web site.
The paper’s ombudsman, Deborah Howell, has informed RAW STORY that Jim Brady, executive editor of washingtonpost.com, is looking for a liberal blogger, along with a conservative one, to replace Ben Domenech who resigned after only three days of blogging, when his earlier writings were discovered by mostly liberal bloggers to be racially insensitive and – in multiple cases – plagiarized.
The paper doesn’t plan on making any formal announcement, but the news should be welcome to many critics on the left who felt that it was unfair to hire just a conservative blogger in the first place.
Thanks Edward Teller. We’re looking forward to it…summer can’t get here fast enough! :)
Annie Laurie…I was reading all the posts and planning on mentioning that he was an absolute weasle, if nothing else, for trying to foist blame on a lower level employee…you said it better than I would have.
Hmmm, If I remember correctly the little twerp from NASA (insisting scientists put “theory” after non-creationist narratives) got his position in PR despite lying about a college degree…let’s not forget man-whore Gannon/Guckert allowed unfettered access
to the WH, so Mr. Doyle appointment without the vetting should not come as a big surprise.
rw cole #26:
I love your conflation of the words apocalyptic and apoplectic. Was it intentional? Whether or not it should become a new word!
punaise - Thanks. Quite interesting. The WaPo is still trying to make their pig FLY. Heh, heh, heh. Pathetic.
Back to Bush and Iran for a moment –
1. Who in God’s name would take the job as press secretary to replace Scotty NOW? Karen Hughes may be the only true believer left who thinks she can talk her way out of this.
2. This is admittedly out there, but I thought all along that Bush was complicit in 9/11 — after all, it was the excuse for everything the neocons wanted all along.
Could it be that if he’s going down he wants to go out hitting that nuclear button? Does he even care about a nuclear WW III? It’s the rapture for him while the rest of us are all too aware of the consequences of his final “F&*% you” to the rest of the civilized world.
Have I lost it completely, or do you see this could be possible?
markfromireland - While it seems like a good idea on the surface … Might not pass the invasion of privacy hurdle here in the US. Don’t know. As you know, we are having an issue regarding the gov’t spying on Americans right now. We do like our privacy.
Speaking of Homeland (In)Security…
http://www.news4jax.com/video/8493871/detail.html
kirby - We are in trouble. The chimp is dulusional with grandure. He is mentally ill. Also, this rapture crap. Appologies to Christians. Nothing will stop him from bombing Iran/Siria/Palistine/Venezuela, etc. The thugs are on a crusade. The Muslims know it. We will pay for it.
ot question: what time zone are the posted times in?
Cal — Don’t sweat that Rapture crap. It’s true wingnuttia and real Christians don’t believe in it anyway.
Also, was it Atrios or Digby or Booman, I forget, who said Bush’s world consists of two people, his audience and Himself. I don’t think he thinks through anything — he’s got a couple of things he finds important, and then he just punts.
That said, yeah, I’m terrified we’ll hit Iran. Otoh, if that test in Vegas is early June, there’s still at least a small window in which these clowns can further disable themselves.
I hope and pray.
Thinkprogress just put up a bit on the Nuke Iran stuff, including references to recent items bolstering Hersch’s story.
http://thinkprogress.org/2006/04/08/bombing-iran/
PS. Shez, (if you’re still here), you’re welcome.
re: prior posting and quoting from Bush to the effect that just because we support democracy/democratic processes that doesn’t mean we’ll necessarily support the result/government determined by that democratic process. So I read this to mean: Impeach away! Of course, it could be argued that Bush’s “elections” were not the result of a democratic process to begin with…
ruffian - PST, it looks like.
Invasion of privacy in the US CRC?
I’m sorry I’m not trying to be nasty but from a Scandinavian perspective your in particular and a, hmmmm call it everywhere north and west of France, US “privacy” laws are a toothless joke. (Granted Scandinavia is where I mostly practice when I’m wearing my civilian hat but I’ve taken enough cases in Strasbourg, the UK, and Ireland, to have a reasonable overview.)
Police and prosecutors alike in the US get away with stuff as a matter of routine that would have their counterparts here doing time and that’s not hyperbole.
It’s becoming an increasing problem too - notwithstanding the various cooperation and extradition treaties the courts here are now striking down clause after clause and refusing point blank to extradite including in “ordinary” criminal matters (and if you think American judges are rightwing you should try some of our chaps.)
dannyboy - EPU - Mugs, T-shirts, Sweatshirts, Bumper Stickers? Want to do it?
thanks-then i dont have to complain about the time it takes for my system to get new posts…
phew…
Sorry I edit in another app and then paste the second paragraph should read:
I’m sorry I’m not trying to be nasty but from a Scandinavian perspective in particular and from a perspective including, hmmmm call it everywhere north and west of France, US “privacy†laws are a toothless joke.
cal — tell me more! Give me your email site and let’s talk.
I just saw Christy’s second update, and perhaps others missed it as well. She clarifies that prior porn viewing is not the issue relevant to a background check, but his attempt to get around his former employer’s policies by viewing in secret on another employee’s computer.
I would add to this his recklessness and irresponsibility in the use of his former employer’s workstations represents, to me, a suitability for high level employment question.