(Tonight’s guest poster is David Neiwert of Orcinus.)
The snow crunched loudly beneath my feet in the winter of 2000 when I walked the short distance from the roadway back to the Aryan Nations compound near Hayden Lake, Idaho. At least, it seemed loud, because the place was so quiet: an eerie quiet, really, considering the noisy gatherings I’d seen here in years past.
There were still plenty of reminders: the large swastika on the roof of one of the storage sheds, the AN shield imbedded in the stained-glass window of the compound’s "church," the high watchtower where armed guards with swastika armbands had patrolled. But they were all gone, this time for good.
The stillness, more than anything, brought an almost overwhelming sense of relief. Part of that was the knowledge that the neo-Nazis who had operated the place since the mid-1970s had, finally, been put out of business by the Southern Poverty Law Center. For those of us who had watched a procession of hate and criminality come marching out of the compound gates in the intervening years, it was a moment that couldn’t have come too soon.
In a sense, it represented the end of an era for white supremacy. But it hardly meant the end of it. Whatever relief we may have felt, it was tempered by that knowledge.
The compound represented an era when white supremacists were relegated to the fringes of American society. And while their tireless efforts to promote racial hatred were now muted, their simultaneous efforts to gain mainstream acceptance — particularly by disguising themselves and muting their core beliefs — had obviously begun to take root.
What was most disturbing was, even in 2000, the way the mainstream conservative agenda was beginning to resemble the politics of longtime racists like David Duke and Richard Butler, the Aryan Nations leader: bashing welfare recipients, attacking affirmative action, complaining about "reverse discrimination," calling for the elimination of immigrants. Since then, this trend has only accelerated, to the point that old-fashioned haters like Duke and the National Alliance are finding their ranks thinned by followers who just become Republicans.
Conservative-movement bloggers have not only played a critical role in this trend, they have proven to be the most reliable way of transmitting ideas from the racist far right by repackaging them in mainstream clothes, and even worse, generating sympathy for racist beliefs. This is why, as Atrios suggests, so much of the right blogosphere has the appearance of a "racist freak show."
Even before there were blogs, however, it had become clear that white supremacy was finding ways to creep back into the mainstream. This was particularly evident in the popularity of the so-called "militia" (or Patriot) movement of the 1990s, which was a direct offshoot of the Aryan Nations’ "Christian Identity" belief system, which promoted the notion of seemingly mainstream "Christian Patriots" as their ideal followers.
I had occasion over the years to talk with a number of these "Christian Patriots," and was struck by their seeming normalcy. As sociologist James Aho demonstrated in the stereotype-busting text The Politics of Righteousness, most of them were reasonably well educated (if narrowly so; humanities education was notably lacking) and lived as most of us do: in suburban neighborhoods, raising kids, paying taxes, voting, attending the PTA. Their racist beliefs were something that came out only when you began asking the right questions.
Beyond this core, many of the recruits for the Patriot movement were strikingly similar: deeply conservative, susceptible to conspiracy theories, and hateful of the very idea of liberalism. Many of them rejected racism and white supremacy, at least overtly; and they rejected the notion that they were being recruited into a movement with racist roots and intentions, especially since these realities were well disguised.
The same phenomenon can be observed in today’s Minutemen, only on a massively broader scale, and perhaps more importantly, with the blinkered cooperation of the mainstream press, which has continually failed to explain to readers its permeation by racist elements, beginning at the top.
The main mechanism for converting mainstream conservatives into right-wing extremists and white nationalists is a process I call transmission: extremist ideas and principles are repackaged for mainstream consumption, stripped of overt racism and hatefulness and presented as ordinary politics. As these ideas advance, they create an open environment for the gradual adoption of the core of bigotry that animates them.
This strategy was first enunciated by Patrick Buchanan back in 1989, in a nationally syndicated column that expressed a level of kinship with David Duke, who at that point was building momentum in a bid to win the Louisiana governorship. Buchanan thought the GOP overreacted to Duke and his Nazi "costume" by denouncing him; he urged:
Take a hard look at Duke’s portfolio of winning issues and expropriate those not in conflict with GOP principles, [such as] reverse discrimination against white folks.
It was a simple formula: Look at the issues that attract white supremacist votes, strip out the racism (or anything inimical to good public relations for the GOP) and present them to the public as fresh, "cutting edge" ideas. In the process, you’ll attract a lot of middle-class white voters who harbor unspoken racial resentments.
Back when Richard Butler’s Aryan Nations operation was being shut down, I interviewed Michael Barkun, one of the nation’s leading experts on Christian Identity, and he predicted that this trend would become more common as traditional white-supremacist organizations fell by the wayside. "Obviously, Butler is just about the last of his generation and certainly the group by all appearances seems to be moribund," Barkun told me. "In a sense, while it has a high public profile, it is in many respects the old order, and in that sense the victory may not mean a huge amount, because I suspect that the problems are going to come from groups that are much more adroit in the managing of their public image than Aryan Nations ever was."
As I observed previously, the nature of Butler’s demise — through his culpability for others’ actions — forced the radical right to go in two different directions, according to Barkun, since the success of groups like the Southern Poverty Law Center at driving outfits like his out of business "puts even more pressure on the organized groups to distance themselves from culpability, and therefore have no organization at all or radically decentralized organizations, or organizations that look to be simply avenues for presenting their views to the public.
"One way of protecting yourself was to advocate leaderless resistance, and another was to take the kind of position that Butler and his fellow defendants did at Fort Smith, saying, ‘All we’re doing is presenting opinions, and therefore we can’t be held accountable. This is all either protected speech or free exercise of religion.’ So I think that these groups will go in one of two directions — they will either fragment into small cells that are even more difficult to trace and monitor, or they’re going to try to look like interest groups and therefore claim that whatever they’re doing constitutes not the advocacy of violence but simply the expression of ideas."
As Max Blumenthal explained in some detail recently in The Nation, the increasing reliance of the mainstream right on repackaging old racist-right appeals has forced those traditional racists to amp up their appeal in new directions:
Back in those good old times, in 1982, explaining the Klan’s anti-immigrant advocacy, Duke said, "Every new immigrant adds to our crime problems, our welfare rolls and unemployment of American citizens…. We are being invaded in the southwest as if a foreign army were coming over the border…. They’re going to take more and more hard-earned money from the productive middle class in the form of taxes and social programs." And Duke called for the deportation of all undocumented immigrants and harsh penalties for businesses that employ them. "I’d make the Mexican-American border almost like a Maginot line," he said, referring to the militarized barrier France constructed between itself, Italy and Germany after World War I.
At the time, Duke was widely dismissed as little more than a turbo-charged version of the paranoid style–"the Klan’s answer to Robert Redford," as reporter Patty Sims described him in 1978. But today his anti-immigration rhetoric sounds not so remote from one of top-rated CNN host Lou Dobbs’s fulminations during his daily "Broken Borders" segment. Duke’s Klan Border Watch, meanwhile, served as the forerunner and inspiration of the Dobbs-touted Minutemen groups that have proliferated from the Mexico border to Herndon, Virginia, the city that hosted the American Renaissance conference, where disgruntled locals hold regular protests outside a day-labor center. Under pressure from Colorado Representative Tom Tancredo, chair of the House Immigration Reform Caucus, and with sponsorship from House Judiciary Committee chair James Sensenbrenner (tough-talking heir to the Kotex fortune), the Republican-dominated House has approved a bill that makes it a felony to be in the United States illegally, mandates punishment for providing aid or shelter to undocumented immigrants and allocates millions for the construction of an iron wall between the United States and Mexico. Duke may have fallen short on the national stage, but his old notions have gained a new life through new political figures.
"Tancredo, he’s pretty good. I would probably vote for him for President," Duke told me.
For self-proclaimed white nationalists, however, the mainstreaming of some of their ideas has created new challenges. "Immigration was the white nationalist movement’s hot issue, but it’s really left beyond them," said Devin Burghart, director of the Building Democracy Initiative at the Center for New Community, a Chicago-based civil rights group. "They’ve gone through this before, where they’ve had to reinvent themselves. Now, they’re searching for a new issue to take them forward."
Right-wing bloggers have played a central role in this, but in a way that reflects the extent to which they are simply another cog in the conservative-movement propaganda machine. Carefully examing how the right blogosphere operates, as such, reveals important truths about the nature of the larger movement.
So let’s take a good look at how it’s structured. The first thing you’ll notice is that right-wing bloggers are generally careful to never express any overt or naked racism. Instead, what they do is act as a transmitter, taking an old far-right appeal or idea and present it as a fresh, if "politically incorrect," way of thinking.
Michelle Malkin — certainly one of the leading lights of the right-wing blogosphere — provided us with a vivid example of this in a recent column, with a charge that she later repeated on national television and on her blog:
Aztlan is a long-held notion among Mexico’s intellectual elite and political class, which asserts that the American southwest rightly belongs to Mexico. Advocates believe the reclamation (or reconquista) of Aztlan will occur through sheer demographic force. If the rallies across the country are any indication, reconquista is already complete.
But as Alex Koppelman at Dragonfire pointed out:
You might expect Malkin to give her readers some evidence that Aztlan really is "a long-held notion among Mexico’s intellectual elite and political class," but she never does.
Why? Because Aztlan and reconquista these days aren’t, for the most part, ideas held by Mexicans: they’re ideas held by white supremacists and neo-Nazis. The myth of reconquista stems from a misreading of one of the founding documents of the Chicano movement, "El Plan Espiritual de Aztlan."
In much the same way that the Black Power movement meant the words "Black Power" in a metaphorical sense, that is, as a call to African-Americans to recognize after years of being stigmatized that they too were people with something to contribute to society, "El Plan Espiritual de Aztlan" was an appeal to nationalism as a means to achieve a greater self-awareness and self-esteem.
But that’s not the way some white supremacists, fearful of a brown mass ready to take over the United States, has interpreted it.
A simple Google search shows that the people talking about Aztlan and reconquista are predominantly not Mexican (though there are some radical fringe groups) but white supremacists.
Malkin, in truth, was simply following in the footsteps of the most prominent right-wing blogger, Instapundit Glenn Reynolds, who for several months in 2004 was likewise promoting the "reconquista" notion while arguing, groundlessly, that the student organization MEChA was a pack of "fascist hatemongers" comparable to the Klan.
But in Malkin’s case, the thread from far-right extremism to mainstream consumption is especially pronounced, since she herself has a considerable history of dalliances and associations with extremists and far-right organizations, most notably VDare, the SPLC-designated hate group that publishes not just Malkin’s work but that of Steve Sailer and Jared Taylor.
Malkin, of course, has never explained her association with VDare, just as Reynolds never recanted his groundless smearing of MEChA. Similarly, they never confront the effects of their reliance on old appeals from the far right, because that would undermine the whole enterprise.
Rather, they trot them out for consumption and play coy about any of the deeper implications of what they’re saying. Then, they leave it up to their readers to complete the connection.
Thus, the editors at sites like Little Green Footballs, Free Republic, or RedState provide few substantive instances of outright racism — but plenty of examples of repackaged extremism. Their commenters, however, are another story altogether; as we’ve seen, their audiences are all too glad to revel in the underlying bigotry.
The end result is a poisonous environment in which not merely the ideas, but the endemic attitudes and worldview, of the racist right receive not just fresh clothes but a whole new generation of adherents. This is why, for instance, so much naked eliminationism aimed not just at illegal immigrants and Muslims but, generically, "treasonous" American liberals has become inextricably interwoven with right-wing rhetoric in recent years.
The old way of the neo-Nazis gathered in remote woods and burning crosses has, thankfully, mostly melted away with the crunching snow. But the residue that has remained, unfortunately, is much more difficult to confront because it is far less obvious. And this, in truth, makes it potentially much more dangerous for us all.
Previous posts in the series:
Educating Wolfie by Pam Spaulding
Right Wing Racism: Steve Sailer by Armando
Let’s Go Real Far Right… by Matt Stoller
Matt O. over at The Great Society has been compiling racist quotes from right-wing websites. It is quite a resource.



194 Comments





Support this site!
Subscribe to the newsletter
Advertise on Firedoglake
Send
us your tips
Make us your homepage
About Firedoglake
Fitz!
Cool Mo’ Dees!
Oliver Stone is on the Henry Rollins Show right now…on IFC. Stone is giving the media and Bush a kick in the gut.
Stone says he has so much media power that he can easily become a dictator.
cc, it’s just you and me babe, there’s some kind of spacetimecontinuum thingy – the post keeps disappearing and reappearing on my system
I wish I could write like that.
Just when you think FDL can’t get any better we get some David Neiwert. Wow.
David that’s an amazing piece.
‘All we’re doing is presenting opinions, and therefore we can’t be held accountable. This is all either protected speech or free exercise of religion.’
If that isn’t a portrait of the right-wing blogosphere I don’t know what is. If it works for the Aryan Nation I guess it’ll work for the bigotsphere, too.
Jane Hamsher painted such a flattering picture of Oliver Stone in her book.
/sarcasm
Great post, and welcome!
OT: kos on Colbert Report tonight.
david neiwert is the best writer in blogtopia (yes! i coined that phrase!)
OT – Speaking of guys named Rollins, Jimmy Rollins’ hitting streak ended tonight at 38 games.
http://philadelphia.phillies.m…..p;c_id=phi
Pach: thanks for the head’sup on Colbert! I keep missing that show…..
Jane’s book was great. Oliver Stone was really good tonight though….
Thanks for your great post, David. When I was searching the rightie blogs for examples of racism the other night, I was concentrating on the headliners and not the commenters, so it seemed like the pickin’s were slimmer than they should have been. Now the lightbulb just went on with your observation that “Thus, the editors at sites like Little Green Footballs, Free Republic, or RedState provide few substantive instances of outright racism — but plenty of examples of repackaged extremism. Their commenters, however, are another story altogether; as we’ve seen, their audiences are all too glad to revel in the underlying bigotry.” Aha!
Ann Coulter spoke at UF a few days ago. A number of my students went. They all thought she was really racist. Some of them thought she was a not-very-funny-comedian.
BTW-Nightline is hammering Bush pretty hard–title of the story:
Leaker in Chief.
Spot on. A terrific post.
I did a Master’s Thesis project about right-wing extremism online, and I’m constantly struck by how similar the rhetoric found on righty blogs lines up with “white power” groups like the National Alliance. Eliminationism, calls to “action” but no direct incitements to violence and the constant refrain of victimization, as if they were simply free thinkers being denied a platform for their original ideas.
clueless, answering your EPU’d question–the TV segment did not say whether Abu was under oath. Not that it would have made any difference in what he said.
This was a great, packed post. Thank you.
Thank you, David, for joining in our discussion of this frightening topic. I have visited your site a number of times and admire the incredible work you’ve done on this for the blogosphere and for your community. Can you give us any idea about other steps we can take to address this in a more concrete way than we are already doing? As you may know, we are a tight-knit group who work pretty well together here and with other blogs on action we hope makes a progressive impression.
Rep Delahunt cut off Abu from a non-answer about a closed-door briefing, when he started talking about all the hours he’s spent answering questions on the Hill.
Signing statements- we intend to abide by the laws, but we can’t give away authority under the constitution.
Yeah–Another Rep referred to thier role in NSA as that of a “potted plant” in the eyes of the admin and the DOJ.
Great, very thoughtful post, and it highlights the mainstreaming of very extremist ideas. When I heard about Renolds talking about the hate mongering racists and MEChA, I thought it was a hoot. I had friends in MECHa when I was growing up and knew it was a pile of BS. It took me awhile to realize it was serious business -that Reynolds was talking to people who never would know anyone in MECHa and wouldn’t know it was BS.
I was dumpster diving for bigoted comments the other night and noticed something else on Reynolds blog and others. And that is that 9/11 is being used an excuse for the New Racism. I read it dozens of times: “9/11 changed everything.†And also the attitude that if one didn’t believe that, one was very very dense and just didn’t get it.
I think objectively, the idea that “9/11 changed everything†is wrong. I cannot think of one important thing about the world that we knew the day after 9/11 that we didn’t know before. We knew all of the following before:
-political and religious extremists around the world were willing to use terrorist violence against civilians (includeing so-called Christians in the US)
-Radical political Islamic terrorists had committed mass terrorism against civilians and mass attacks against soldiers and were plotting more
-the US government had been is a semi-war mode with Al Qaeda, and considered him a threat.
I think it was even public knowledge that highjacked airplanes might be used as bombs. I think there was even a simulation for that scenario run by the FAA and military in the 90s.
The only really new thing that I can think of is that their hero was humiliated that day, and that there is very good evidence that the Bushites blew it big time wrt to the danger of terrorism hitting the US. That might be what 9/11 really changed for them.
I can’t think of much that was brand new geopolitical or idelogical knowledge revealed by 9/11. It was horrifyiing and evil, but was it unimaginable? So I guess I just disagree with them on that. But surely they predicate a great deal of their attitudes on that idea. And it is very powerful emotionally -look at the reaction to the trailer for the Flight 93.
If anyone thinks that I am wrong on 9/11, let me know. But there is no doubt in my mind that this justifies of a lot of attitudes -including those on race and bigotry- that would not have been considered healthy before.
Sorry, feel like I’m hijacking, but Abu is under oath per a question by either Schier (?) or Jackson
Shorter Neiwert: take the loony out of the boonie, he’s still goony.
I agree with you, wesgpc, I have seen just that phrase on redstate and LGF as well. It is as though it is a ticket for the far left to justify thier position and untenable rhetoric.
Since much of the BushCo has come out, I have wondered where the Black Helecopter crowd was, there were the militia groups who thought the government was out to get them.
The 40 something white males who haunted the gun shows and doing pretend war games. Since my Ex was two shades off of Tim McVey, I wondered where they were hiding.
The things you need to understand how scary they are. I would be walking around Cour d’laine, Idaho and some Yahoo would say…. “you had better not walk around town with those two chink kids after dark”…..I was with my two adopted Korean children, because some “fine ” citizen was sueing me following a land sale.
I have posted this on another comment about the hatred that is spued here in Phoenix. KFYI had a talk show hosts spout off about shooting them all when they cross the boarder. The Minutemen gather before it gets too hot and strut around with guns on their hips. Fat White boys with binocs ready to spot those brown people. State Rep Russel Pierce and others like him gather media time and spout that the Governor is NOT doing her job.
Monday will be a place to watch. They are predicting 100,000 protestors to march through Phoenix. The state & city have already issued road closures with exits being blocked off the freeway which looks like a design to prevent marchers joining in.
The other issue is Sheriff Joe (the slime ball, costs the county millions in law suits) He is wacky enough to have tanks out there and we can see something along the line of Tiananmen Square. He is a media hound and will do anything to be in front of a camera.
The last march scared them so much when so many “brown” people showed up. There is a State Rep who has been advocating that the city should of arrested them all the last time. Then add the minutemen who are on the boarder…..
Incredibly well written and frightening post, thanks David. Nightmares put to prose– they are among us and don’t need the hoods and robes anymore– they are assimilated. ugh.
Abu won’t even look at Debbi, queen of Fla politics.
She is hitting hard on FISA/NSA and the fact that Abu admitted they first were told they couldn’t get a warrant. She compares it to her kids!
Love her.
Excellent post. Bravo! Well said!
Cleter-
Ann Coulter spoke at UF a few days ago. A number of my students went. They all thought she was really racist. Some of them thought she was a not-very-funny-comedian.
Well, isn’t that sort of what she has become? A b-list teller of racist jokes for the far right? I was saying at my blog a while ago that she’s sort of like right-wing performance art now. Is it really that far from “liberals love terrorists” and “Joe McCarthy was a great man” to sticking yams up your ass for crowds?
Coulter should just open a gallery space and smear herself with canned cat-food on a nightly basis while ranting through a bullhorn about immigrants. It would be an improvement over her current gig.
wesgpc @ 8:46 pm – All I think changed on 9/11 was that a new generation of half-wits became aware that we could be attacked here. Those are the ones now explaining how dense the rest of us are.
And, yes, 9/11 is being used as an excuse for racism, just as Japanase expansionism was used as an excuse during the 1940s, Chinese Communism was an excuse during the 1950s, and Vietnam was an excuse during the 1960s. As David Neiwert wrote, illegal immigration has been an excuse for many years.
The sad fact is that they really don’t need an excuse, but they’ll always find one.
zennurse -thanks. But I hope you meant far “right.” Be careful, they are watching us too, you know. I saw examples of our extremist (ie, liberal Republican, center and on to far left) “hate speech” posted on the reactionary wingnut sites.
Superb, David, as always. It’s fascinating how these individuals interweave their tracks and appeals.
Well, I’m long on observation and short on strategy. The best way of fighting that I know of is simply disseminating information about them. Educating the public is, in my mind, the first step.
I think a lot of liberals often appear so spineless because they simply don’t comprehend the nature of what they’re up against. They’re usually terribly unprepared for 21st-century right-wing behavior because they still operate in a 20th-century frame of normalcy.
The only way to shake them out of it is to wake them up. Unfortunately, I think people like me who try to tell them are dismissed as alarmists, even if we do it even-handedly and with substantive evidence.
So my sense is that, if we want to talk strategy, the first job is to wake up the average liberal. How we do that, I don’t know, other than by doing what I’m doing.
David,
I’m another of your admirers who visits your site periodically. Notice that I don’t say regularly. I can’t. It depresses me if I read it too often. But I can’t stay away forever, either.
I do think what you address is important, and praise be to you for braving that cesspool, so often, for us. Thank you, thank you, for all your great work.
I need to say it again: great post. Great dissection of the ecosystem on that side.
Cujo359 April 6th, 2006 at 8:53 pm: Yes, you make a good point. The excuse isn’t new. But we have to figure a way to counter it, since it is always new in the minds of otherwise reasonable people who are susceptable to it. And I think the emotional punch of 9/11 makes up for the fact that objectively, the idea that it revealed a totally new potentially catastrophic threat, well that idea is weaker than all the other excuses you mentioned. But it hits people so hard, it stops thought.
Speaking personally, I have no problems with the loony black helo crowd. The more of them there are, and the more loony they are, once we are back in charge of the White House and Congress, the more of an anti-rethug curettement we’ll be able to carry out. The loony right will legitimate the (necessary) political pogrom against those rethugs who court their vote (the Duncan Hunters of the world, with their militia-outreach programs).
I absolutely agree with rwcole. Let’s focus on getting a clear Democratic mandate in November, then focus on impeaching the preznit. After George is in an Orange jumpsuit, we go after the rest of them.. be they loony-right-sympathizing rethugs or rethugs-in-Democratic clothing. In southern cal, we start with Hunter and Issa :)
The project here — the only overarching master plan — is the total destruction of the Republican party. Nothing less.
I was a student at U of ID and a summertime lifeguard at the Coeur d’Alene, Idaho city beach in the early 1980’s. The Hayden Lake racists were just north of town and would often walk up and down the beach boardwalk with their shirts off displaying their racist tattoos.
Zennurse,
It was Sensenbrenner who reminded Gonzales that Congress authorizes the budgets for illegal spying programs and thus shouldn’t be treated as a potted plant.
Gosh, thanks, wes, of course I meant Right Wing in my #23, I apologise!!
To the NSA screener, I meant on the right, not the left. Please do a search on me and you’ll know how gentle I am. Honest.
OT – Sort of. I have a local public service program of the local PBS station on. A commentary by a guy named John Keister was just on. He was talking about immigration. He made the point that the only two countries in the world that have an income gap as big as the one between the U.S. and Mexico are North and South Korea. This gives you an idea, he said, of how much border control will be necessary to stop illegal immigration.
Not sure this is entirely true, but it certainly makes you think.
OT, but thanks to neurophius and cleter for educating me on EPU on last thread!
Bobby Scott from VA is hard hitting and not letting Abu getting away with rhetoric at all.
David, the extremist used to hide in compounds and train their youth. Now they have become mainstream Radical wingnuts and we feel like hiding in a compound to excape their hate.
We have to do the same that they did. If they hit us once, we need to hit back with both fists (this is figuratively). If they SCREAM, we need to march in the thousands back. They are the bully boys from our childhood but we are adults now and we can stand up to them.
You did a great job of refecting just how radical they are, how important it is to shine that 1000 watt spotlight on them to show the world just how radical they are. From someone who survived living close to those compounds.
Re David: “Look at the issues that attract white supremacist votes, strip out the racism (or anything inimical to good public relations for the GOP) and present them to the public as fresh, “cutting edge” ideas. In the process, you’ll attract a lot of middle-class white voters who harbor unspoken racial resentments.” You finish by referencing the difficulty of confronting “the far less obvious.”
I get it now. Being shown all the racist, bigoted garbage in the world doesn’t cause the significance to crystallize until the interpretation is made about how feelings, often primitive or unacceptable and out of our awareness, are being intentionally exploited.
This resonates in the same way Jane’s earlier post does: “Any support that people have for Bush’s ability to wiretap without warrants is largely based on the internalization of this phony notion, that Bush uses these powers to keep them safe.
It IS important to have examples to support an interpretation, but the connecting of the examples to experiences that many otherwise good people can begin to recognize in themselves is the mechanism whereby insight and shifts occur. You might have to repeat an accurate interpretation 60 times, but the elusive and labor intensive task of arriving at the correct interpretation is complete.
Well done.
wesgpc says # 20
Sad thing is I predicted it. I was visiting my ex-boyfriend in NY at WTC2 circa 2000, I said to he and his friend who also worked there “Aren’t you afraid of working here?”. They said no-way because didn’t I see the tough security to get into the building?…”well yeah but they could fly planes into the building or something.” I wish I was kidding on this one it is just too eerie (sp?).
There is no excuse for shredding the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. That is the highest priority, our country will survive attacks but our country may not if we are not vigilant.
Love the work on the outing of the racist right. We got a racist email at work today the woman emailed it to everyone she knows from her work email. Very offensive. Made me think of the good work FDL is doing on this.
David, keep on doing what you’re doing. You write so well and we appreciate it.
It will take a while for people to learn that this is real, isn’t isolated to any one state.
“White Pride” people do seem to be getting bolder these days, though.
David,
Sometimes, I think, speaking in a balanced way just gets you ignored. That’s why we do smashmouth snark around here. We offend people with truth, by design.
I feel as though their xenophobia and rage is a product of our own failure to deal with globalization. I mean, they always speak as though globalization is the cause of so many ills ‘over there’, but we are also forgetting that their fear mongering and hate is contributing to our isolation and loss of standing in the world. I resist referring to the talibanization of America, because though I deeply despise them (the Taliban), I believe that further denigrates Islam by attributing the actions of the Taliban as representative of the vast majority of Moslems. We have our own very American problem and it will prove to be the downfall of our country if not stopped. With new communication technologies, the things America does or does not do is no longer hidden from the rest of the world and your work is an opportunity for the world to see that some of us care. Thanks again for the post.
Thanks David, will do.
I appreciate your response. I hope what we plan to do with the collection of culled comments and posts by addressing the media complicity will have some effect. We’ve target Wolf Blitzer, are there any other media personalities who are repeat offenders, in your opinion? I think that there must be, but I don’t watch TV, I just support our action because I believe these folks are egregious mishandlers of the truth of what is happening in the country. Two or three comments from a Chris Matthews or a Wolf Blitzer goes a long way toward framing the thoughts of a large group of otherwise un-savvy viewers.
zennurse >”…She compares it to her kids!”
Great strategy & one that should be replicated by others; ReThuglicans are behaving like 8 year old children
“The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.” – H. L. Mencken
David, it’s great to see your work at FDL. You truly have walked into the belly of the beast and that experience is really helpful in pointing out the subtle, but far more insidious, forms of racism exhibited by so many RW bloggers. Thanks.
wesgpc @ 8:58 pm – Wish I could offer hope. This is largely a function of the primate brains we were born with, IMHO. It’s a natural tendency to divide ourselves up into little groups that jealously guard their territory against all competitors. This behavior seems to be endemic to most social mammals.
The only thing I think that can counteract it is the light of day. Some people will always hate, but there are plenty of others, I suspect, who might or might not depending on their experiences. Arguing with these people about their wacky ideas will probably prevent some from following them. But some people won’t be willing to examine their assumptions, and those will probably remain the bigots they are now.
I can offer no panacea short of gene therapy, and I’m not sure how much of our genotype we’d have to change to get the effect we wanted, or if what we created that way would be even remotely human.
David — there’s nothing “extreme” about what you do. It’s only people’s discomfort at facing this stuff that makes it seem so, the appropriate word would be “courageous.”
I know this isn’t a hot, fun topic like a lot of stuff we cover here but I think it’s really important. I really appreciate everyone — contributors, commenters and readers — who are participating.
MsAnnaNOLA April 6th, 2006 at 9:12 pm: No, your “premonition” of a plain flying into the WTC was not eerie. I remember visiting the WTC in the late 90s and had this spooky feeling of the whole place coming down in flames. The memory of that really spooked me after 9/11. But, then I remembered that Islamic extremists tried to blow the place up in the early 90s. I wonder if a lot of people subconsciously remembered that when they visited. So, not so eeire after all. But is is more evidence that the “9/11 changed everything” is not sound reasoning. But emotionally very powerful, and certainly a new excuse for racism and bigotry.
BTW -I actually came across of few interesting sites with lots of interesting and uncensored give and take in the comments. But the top 100 that FDL wants to look into -my goodness, were they depressing. ?Dreary, predictable, and irrational, IMHO.
David, thank you for this thoughtful, educational and incisive post. I just scanned the comments quickly, but you said something about being an observer, vs. ? Being an observer, that is an accurate and astute observer, is a rare gift. Much to be treasured. In a completely different context, the other eve on FDL, I had occasion to remember a phrase “they have eyes, but they see not”, but I couldn’t remember the source, or find it on google, tho I suspected that it was from the King James version of the Bible. An FDL commenter provided a link, and as it turned out, I had not remembered the text exactly right. Rather, it was “eyes have they, but they see not” from Psalm 115 http://www.poemsforfree.com/psalms.html
I am not a religious person, and only have a passing familiarity with Bible text. But, for some reason, the words came to mind. And, given my lack of knowledge, I don’t know what the larger context was for the particular bit of Psalm poetry that I remembered. I hope that I am not misreading in the larger context. But, nonetheless, someone who has “eyes to see” is to be celebrated. Many thanks
Wow David, Been visiting your site since the Koufax nominations and now you’re here – Welcome !
As part of an FDL homework assignment, sent off some gems from right wing sites
(Malkin, LGF, NRO, etc.) to SPLC just to make sure they were aware of the hate emanating from so called mainstream sites – all camo’d up in code words of course
Rilf @ 37 (odd name)– then the other guy borrowed the potted plant phrase, it’s a great metaphor.
Thank you for a great post.
OT:
Sr. Administration Official Rejects Possibility Bush Illegally Leaked Intel
“By definition, the president cannot leak,” the official said. “He has the inherent authority to declassify something. …It’s like accusing a shopkeeper of shoplifting from himself.”
“The administration was engaged in a heated debate over the substance of Joe Wilson’s charges,” the senior White House official said. “You bet.”
That official said today that “very soon after that we declassified the entire NIE” to further refute claims made by Wilson — that Iraq had no nuclear aspirations.
http://www.abcnews.go.com/Poli…..amp;page=1
Official, my ass.
So, the refuted claims were not refuted…I’m confused.
Watching the muslim cartoon episode of south park, its brilliance is indescribable
Why a Hairstyle Made Headlines:
She stood there wearing a coral-colored jacket and dangling earrings and raising the serious issue of racial injustice. But it was impossible not to stare at her hair. As your plainspoken mother might say, it appeared to be standing all over her head.
Everyone has a bad hair day, whether it is straight hair that goes limp, curls that turn frizzy or kinky hair that becomes unruly. So it would be reasonable to think that McKinney’s hairdo should not have elicited anything more than a shrug or a knowing and sympathetic whisper among black women, “Girrrl, did you see her head?”
Instead, talk turned ugly on blogs about her news-conference hair. It became the impetus for all sorts of racially driven insults about her locks and their natural texture. A black woman’s hair is an easy, timeworn source of racist mockery. It has become an exhausting cliche of self-loathing whether it is kinky, hot-combed, braided, locked or chemically relaxed. (Indeed, plenty of black folks see all kinds of dire race-traitor undertones in Condoleezza Rice’s smooth, controlled cap of hair.) A black woman’s hair is a bottomless source of inspiration for essays, books and documentaries.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..02341.html
wesgpc #53
Yes. The bombing was absolutely on my mind. I was really shocked when it happened. I had been more aware than most from Louisiana about “the real world” because for example having been to France and cops with oozies at the airport and no trashcans on the street/in metro because of bombing potential.
Sort of on topic: True Stories of Bizarro Racist Louisiana World/David Duke: 1) Actual sign seen in Livingston Parish LA (unfortunately had to evacuate there for 6 months!) “David Duke for President” and oh they are serious. 2)Predominantly Catholic South Louisiana a girl on my floor at college freshman year decided to go under cover and interview him. She got him on a hidden microphone saying that he wanted to divide up the united states into different areas. Each ethnic/religous/minority would have their own area of the country. It went something like this if memory serves: New York=Jews, South LA=Cajun, South FL=Hispanics, and so on and so forth but with many being much less obvious. In short Catholics had their own “area” because they were to be cordoned off from the rest of the society…in other words he hates them too. Oh and the bizarre part is they elected him to the state Legislature. Thank goodness we had the crook to vote for for Governor instead!
OT>
Maxine Waters is nailing Abu and giving him what for. You go girl !! on C-SPAN2 now
Instead, talk turned ugly on blogs about her news-conference hair. It became the impetus for all sorts of racially driven insults about her locks and their natural texture. A black woman’s hair is an easy, timeworn source of racist mockery. It has become an exhausting cliche of self-loathing whether it is kinky, hot-combed, braided, locked or chemically relaxed. (Indeed, plenty of black folks see all kinds of dire race-traitor undertones in Condoleezza Rice’s smooth, controlled cap of hair.) A black woman’s hair is a bottomless source of inspiration for essays, books and documentaries.
Wow, ccmask. That’s a great find. But talk didn’t turn ugly and racist on blogs — it turned ugly and racist on right wing blogs. Considering the no small amount of effort the WaPo has devoted to smearing left wing blogs, I think they need to be more specific here.
I know, I know, here we go again…
ombudsman@washpost.com
Everybody has to get it right some time.
“Everybody has to get it right some time.”
Jane, you are more of an optimist than I am. ;)
ccmask @ 9:33 pm (#58) – He may be right about the President’s authority (I think it has at least one or two constraints), but the shoplifting comment is offensive. First of all, it’s not the President’s information, it’s the government’s. Second, it’s not a petty crime. This selective “declassification” was a part of the justification for the Iraq War, and if it was wrong and they covered it up that’s a major crime, in my book.
They might also take a gander at this part of EO 13292:
[emphasis mine]
IANAL, but it seems to me that the deliberate concealment of information through classification, while similarly sensitive information is released, could be considered either 1.7(a)(1) or 1.7(a)(2).
Jane-read the whole story. I wanted to post the whole thing it was so bad…
hi david, great to see you post here. i was over at your site today and followed a link about the minutemen and the nazi flag. i followed the comments and there was a discussion about whether it was to overt to use the flag, that maybe they should be more discreet. anyway, i also noticed they were planning a protest in front of the mexican consulates right here in seattle on april 10th, i was thinking of going and representing the anti racist , or whatever. anyway, once again, great to see you here, btw, i’m the annie, jesse’s mom, next door to mike and faye in ballard. get in touch if you have any urge to hit the protest. keep up the awesome threads.
Anthony Weiner, Rep from NY, asks Abu directly about the leak issue, asks what his job was at the time, Abu is saying he can’t recall whether he ever talked or thought about it. Weiner is asking what the penalty is, Abu says he “does not know”. Has a very, very smirky face, Asshole.
zennurse: I know exactly what you mean.
zennurse:
Can you imagine Feingold/Leahy/Kennedy/Greenwald or Christy Hardin Smith(yessss) sitting there as AG? Gonzales’ smarm and stoopid prevarications are making me quite queasy. Nite all.
ccmask @ 9:37 pm – Read the article. OK, she’s funny looking. That should make her easy to identify. I’m starting to wonder how bright you have to be to get a job as a Capitol security guard.
Does the WaPo think that now that the Philly Phanatic is red, people won’t recognize him? If you don’t know what I’m talking about, and no sensible human being would, here’s a visual aid.
hey, has anyone suggested adding to the censure resolution the request that Bush personally pay for the costs of the Fitzgerald investigation?
zennurse @ 9:56 pm (#68) – Weiner is asking what the penalty is, Abu says he “does not knowâ€.
I’m betting it rhymes with “one ton of hoe”.
Cujo: True. Her hair was a mess. Bad hair days sure do suck.
—
The politics of hair – Neal Boortz edition (from Pandagon)
BOORTZ: For instance, or for goodness sakes, jump in and I’m gonna say — I’m gonna start out with something controversial. I saw Cynthia McKinney’s new hair-do. Have you seen it, Belinda?
SKELTON: No.
BOORTZ: She looks like a ghetto slut.
SKELTON: Well, how is it?
BOORTZ: It’s just — it’s hideous.
SKELTON: Is it braided? Or –
BOORTZ: No, it’s not braided. It just flies away from her head in every conceivable direction. It looks like an explosion in a Brillo pad factory. It’s just hideous. To me, that hairstyle just shows contempt for — no, it’s not an Afro. I mean, no, it just shows contempt for the position that she holds and the body that she serves in. And, I’m sorry, there’s just no other way to — it’s just a hideous and horrible looking –
——
A poster wrote this:
not gonna contribute much of depth, because there’s not much point in a real dialogue on “that was increibly racist and misogynist, the FCC should be on his ass, not Janet Jackson’s boob.â€
zennurse or anyone–
What is the stated purpose of Abu Gonzo’s appearance at the House Committee hearing?
Scheduled events for dates
4/6/2006 – 4/6/2006
Thursday 04/06/2006 – 9:00 AM
2141 Rayburn House Office Building
Full Committee
Oversight Hearing on “The United States Department of Justice.”
Here’s my by now repetive take.
1. For the NIE only, I think that the President has the “power” to declassify.
2. It is my understanding, though, that while the Pres can establishin an Exec Order declasification procedures, pursuant to other law, once he sets the procedure in the order, he is bound to follow it. I don’t know if we have info to know whether or not he did that, but it seems “shakey.”
3. The words misuse and abuse come to mind also. A finding that power exists is not conclusive to a finding that power has been appropriately exercised, and misuse of power/information and abuse of power might be issues.
4. Fitzgerald’s filing indicates that the President did not know about Libby’s involvement in the outing of Plame: “During this time, while the President was unaware of the role that the Vice President’s Chief of Staff and National Security Adviser had in fact played in disclosing Ms. Wilson’s CIA employment. . .” But IMO, outing a CIA agent would, if the President were involved, be a different thing. The Exec might have power to declassify, but that is a different power than the power to violate Congressional statutes, like the Intelligence Identities Act. The only basis of power for that, IMO, would be some kind of emergency implicating the necessary and proper powers and those would be ???????? It also raises a question on the Leopold article, re: the emails. OTOH, the languge in the filing is careful “during this time, while the resident was unaware” doesn’t rule out that the President was made aware shortly thereafter. fwiw.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Non-Plame from old thread – I keep thinking that Sensenbrenner’s newfound decision to act like a chairman and push a bit just might be tied to things he hears from people back in Wisconsin? Some of them have to be over the moon about Feingold – right on so many calls so far and just tough as nails. You just wonder if any of them have said, “yo Sensy”?
MsAnnaNOLA #61:
Yes, too bad about some attitudes in LA. I used to have a number of friends there going to school -Tulane, Xavier, LSU. There were certain places -mainly in the northern half of the state and sections of SW out by Lafayette where the friendliness just went away if a mixed race crowd showed up (particularly if men and women were part of the mix too). Not every place by any means, but a lot of places.
But I love the gulf coast around NOLA, and hope things go well. I am scheduled to go to MS to help reconstruct some stuff in a small town this summer. Talked to a fellow just back and said people were living in tents where he was. I hope you are back home, or will be soon.
Thanks Angie. They seem to be covering a wide range of topics. You would think that congressional oversight of the justice department, with all the issues it is involved in, would deserve more than five minutes of questioning per member of the committtee. There is very little time for in-depth questions or follow-up.
Great post. I just discovered your site today, thanks to FDL, and spent some time reading until the sheer weight of awfulness overcame me for a while. But I’ll be back.
Re wash post on Cynthia McKinney:
Some time ago there was a bit of discussion about how when women get elected/appointed all the press seems to cover is their fashion sense or lack thereof. This whole article falls into the WTF. This is news? Granted she has been in the news lots the last couple of days so being in the spotlight suddenly makes her a target…but this is rediculous. Talk about her policy positions or what have you but bringing up her and Condi’s hair makes a farce out of the fact that they are powerful women.
PS Not defending Condi. She makes my skin crawl because of her proximity and participation in the WHIG lies.
I just hate how guys can have no style/be unattractive/look weird + be powerful but no one ever notices ie: Karl Rove. Either start making fun of weird looking white men in power or STFU.
Limericks on assimilationism
We eat tapas, sashimi, and roes,
Lamb tagine, and then flan. Heaven knows
What cuisines we’ll accrue
In our melting pot stew
As assimilationism grows
http://www.oedilf.com/db/Lim.p…..ilationism
goodnight and good luck
MsAnnaNOLA #81:
I think there is definitely a double standard. Remember how the nickname Scalito was deemed evidence of anti-Italian bias? Then there is the anti-neocon = anti-semitism canard. That kind of thing needs to be called. Sometimes in the press, these kinds of breezy racial references and talk might be considered evidence of sophistication and cool, or something like that. But I don’t think it belongs in real news or real news commentary.
Leslie-I forgot to thank you for the head’s up on C-span 2. AbuG got his ass kicked wrt abortion by some bald haired pissed off democrat.
Oh, sorry for my bald racism :)
So this is how they are going to win elections.
Democrats are going to start “dissappearing”.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/print?id=1814181
-GSD
Mr. Pinochet, dinner for one?
wesgpc: I am home luckily and have been for a while! Good luck in MS I just read FEMA shut down tent cities for volunteers so I hope they make some other arrangements for you and your group. Any little bit helps there is an overwhelming amount to do.
I must share this before bed. I read this at tpmcafe the other night and it really made me cry, but I think it may be helpful for others to understand:
Being Poor Like the NOLAS
http://www.tpmcafe.com/node/28359
Bon nuit!
Goodnight my friends, I have just discovered that I have stayed up until nearly 2am again. No wonder I keep getting sick!
Thanks Jane for great posts tonight, and thanks again David for a truly sobering perspective. We’ll do our best.
Regarding the WaPo article on McKinney…all I can say is if Ms. Howell is willing to take Dana Milbank to the woodshed for wearing orange on Countdown…then what is she going to do when the fashion editor tries to cover politics?
wesgpc: Scalito is anti-Italian? Are you kidding me? Yes canards. “must divert attention from his actual votes eerily similar to Scalia’s”
Seriously. We have real issues to deal with in this country its the votes and policies not the hair that is important.
I hope I didn’t come off as disrespectful toward David with my tongue in cheek upthread, david is the bomb in every way and has been for years and never stops. That’s another huge beauty of FDL, you just hang around and all the greats show up.
Talking about extremism, Delay’s staff organized attacks on Nick Lampson supporters at a press conference, here: http://www.brazosriver.com/apr….._confe.htm
David,
Thank You! A most excellent and well written post to help us enlighten masses of people to what is happening and how they do it in misguided overt and covert ways.
I want to paraphrase the statement that this is not a christian nation it is a free country, to- this is NOT a white nation it is a free country for all humans.
They forget the human part.
LOL and props to who said they went “dumpster diving” into the rightwing bligotsphere, that about sums it up perfectly.
Well that smashes the record right there, folks. Thanks to everyone who stopped by today.
Dave,
been dropping in once and a while. Damn good series you had on the Orca’s.Now that the commercial season has been gutted off of northern Cal/lower OR, maybe some hope there. On topic , i know you have been covering this for a while now. Any more instances close to home? I certainly hope not. BTW, I believe you have a Koufax worthy series,if only you had more exposure. Very nice to see you here.
When I read this article, which is very good, all I could think of is this article from the onion
Anti-Racism Laws Mutate Racism Into Newer, Stronger Form
It is worth a read.
Tom Delay calling Cynthia McKinney a racist — because she’s always bringing up racism — made me realize that radical right-wingers’ racism had gone legit. Then I read your post, David, and you explained how it happened. Thanks for this, you connected a lot of dots for me.
Congrats Jane & Christy! Give yourself a raise.
Prof #92, there’s also a Kos diary on the Delay supporters shenanigans that includes a link to the extended CNN video.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/4/7/0584/80494
Jojo #98:
Looks like some kind of free republic site protesting Fred Phelps (who thinks God is punishing the US for allowing LGBTs roam free and unimprisoned, or unkilled, or something). I guess Phelps is too much even for some of the reactionary nuts. Now, no one can accuse of FDL of not being “fair and balanced” -it looks like we have a reactionary wing nut site condemning bigotry (but I suspect it is because Phelps is so visual and too-inclusive -note some of his people standing on the flag and disrespecting all US soldiers) -not because of any tolerance for gays.
Great post, Dave.
Jojo @ 11:00 pm (#98), wesgpc @ 11:12 pm (#101) – Well, that isn’t something you see every day. And I think wesgpc is right – they’re mad because Phelps’ bunch are dissing soldiers and the U.S. in general. I can’t blame them there.
RBG, thanks for that Kos link on Lampson, here’s the CNN link to the clip:
“>Delay Tactics
Please note that this would never be allowed at any winger presser. What a bunch of asshats who think they can do anything. It’s one thing to show up to protest, it’s another thing to push and force yourself right next to the candidate, push your signs into his head disrespectfully, and assault a senior citizen on top of it. Shameful.
OT–
AP-Ipsos poll just in gives Bush lowest job performance ratings ever at 36% in their polls and the Dems a 16 pt. lead over Repugs in Congress on “which party should control Congress.”
Story at http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200…..epublicans
David: you’re such a gem in the jewelbox of Northwest blogs. I’ve been reading you for awhile and really appreciate how uncompromising and thorough you are on this topic. The white supremacists have learned a lot from their counterparts in Congress. They now know how to market themselves as “just regular guys” looking out for Amerika. They seriously scare the daylights outa me, but I’m
heartened by the fact that the real regular folks are starting to realize it’s a snowjob, and are showing up on short notice to counteract their hideous message. A few weeks ago when only one nazi teenager showed up at Seattle Center he was met by at least 25 anti-fascist protestors who had organized on the web just days before. We gotta keep at it. It’s really time to go after our resident fraud/fascist, Tim Eyman. He’s been given leeway for far too long.
And thanks for your thoughful posts on Luna’s heartbreaking demise. It still hurts just thinking about it.
Oy… I think it’s long past me bedtime. I just planted this post square in the middle of the “Evil Parallel Universe” y’all talk about. Sorry ’bout that, folks, and I hope you don’t mind if I copy it over to here.
—————————————-
A couple of questions:
First off, my gut’s telling me that if the Democrats don’t make their stand now, if they don’t at LEAST support Feingold’s call for censure (if not initiate a call for impeachment based on the latest revelations about Bush’s apparent role in the NIA leak) they risk losing this ENTIRE ISSUE to the Republicans.
If this current situation is as serious for the President as it looks like it may well be, and the Republicans themselves decide to “cut baitâ€, as it were, and request that Bush and Cheney resign rather than face impeachment… while meanwhile the Democrats sit there and continue to hem and haw and consult their polls and drag their asses and “keep their powder dry†for a fight that they never truly intend to have happen… doesn’t that tend to hand the entire game over to the Republicans in that case? After all, if the Republicans (even out of political self-interest) end up being the ones who ultimately stand up and tell the President “No more!†then what does that leave the Democrats?
Second question: The e-mails that supposedly implicate Bush along with Cheney in the NIA leak… are they the same ones that somebody in the White House “suddenly found†and turned over to Fitzgerald along about the time Cheney shot his buddy in the face?
I’m getting more and more curious as to who exactly turned these e-mails in. I’d been under the impression that perhaps it was Rove or somebody close to Rove, figuring to create more reason to push for Cheney to step down.
But if these e-mails implicate Bush as well as Cheney, then it doesn’t sound like it was necessarily something that Rove would have turned over.
Was it perhaps Andy Card? And are we now maybe seeing exactly why he was suddenly encouraged to “spend more time with his family�
It’s just a bit of late-night musing on my part, and it may well be that this has already been answered. If so, I apologize for rehashing it.
————————————-
(And again, sorry for the boneheaded move on my part, posting this in the last thread instead of in this one. G’night, everyone!)
Jojo #98:
Sorry, I was being snarky when maybe I shouldn’t have been. Phelps is nuts and thinks he is doing God’s good work by saying that EVERYONE is being punished for allowing LGBTs to exist in the US. By all-inclusive, I meant that he condemns everyone in US for not eliminating gays, not just gays themselves. i think it is that bit that upset the reactionaries. Phelps has sent protesters to US Soldier’s funerals to blame US permissiveness for their deaths. Phelps is truly crazy, I think. I heard he recently declared a moratorium on these ghastly protests.
Mary @ 10:15 pm (#77) – In order:
1. Agreed. I think there is reason to doubt he can simply declassify an agent’s identity without going through the procedures of recovering said agent and associated agents, unless there’s a compelling national interest. I can’t quote you the part of that sec 421/422 law that asserts that, though.
2. Agreed, although as I mentioned earlier, it’s possible he did that without having to tell more than the WH staff, depending on the distribution of the NIE.
3. Do you think that quote from 1.7 in comment #65 has any applicability? It seems hard to justify their choices to declassify some parts of the NIE and not others, but I could have missed something. And, of course, proving motivation can be a whole lot tougher than guessing what it is.
4. If the President was made aware after the fact, would he not be obligated to have Libby and whoever else was involved investigated?
Shoephone,
Did you see the reports of last weekend’s Nazi rally in Olympia? Seven Nazis were there while hundreds showed up in opposition to them.
The really twisted part was that Seattle television reported the Nazis were trying to use Rachel Corrie’s name as an anti-Israel talking point. They have no shame.
Uh… Clem #108
Oy, do I agree with the first part of your post. Bush, even Cheney, are tools of very nasty reactionary and powerful forces in the US. They are like The Thing from the SciFi movie, and will morph into another shape (John… John… that still you?). I think it is too late for GOP to do something for 2006, but not for 2008.
Ultra passivity for Dems is sure loser in long run. With this attitude, they will be too damn skeeered to do anything even if they win. They will just be jerks who happened to win and scared about losing next time. They have to stand for something someday if they want to lead. How about figuring it out now, huh, guys? Listen to Uh… Clem there.
Uh… Clem. @ 11:47 pm (#110) In short, yes, this is one of my concerns, as well. The Republicans will tend to get coverage for their efforts merely because they have the power to affect things. Democrats will only get noticed when they say loudly and clearly what is wrong and what they think should be done about it.
Something that’s struck me recently about the msm and the religious right is the remarkable number of above-the fold articles appearing lately in “leading” papers such as the WP & NYT that directly address/pander to fringe fundamentalist issues: the discovery of a 375 million year old fossil fish with handlike fins is cast as a challenge to creationism, and in today’s WP an article speculates that Jesus could have used ice floes to walk on water. “Floating Ice May Explain How Jesus Walked on Water, Researchers Say” http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..600921.htm
And this, also from WP: “Newly Translated Gospel Offers More Positive Portrayal of Judas” http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..600921.htm
Everybody’s getting holy as we trundle toward theocracy. There’s an issue here.
RBG – I did hear about the rally in Olympia (in fact, maybe it was through one of David N.s posts?) but I wasn’t aware of their creepy use of Rachel Corrie’s name. I keep hoping they will self-destruct but somehow they are more like the energizer bunny. They keep coming back every few years, just adopting different talking points to fit whatever black void they hope to fill in Average Joe American’s demoralized psyche.
Oh, and I keep forgetting, David. That’s a great article. BTW, do you know whatever became of the old Aryan Nations compound? I’m kinda hoping they turned it into a summer camp for inner-city kids.
thanks for the context, David – great post.
Sharkbabe – I liked your condensed version, too.
justbrowzing @ 12:14 am – Those links aren’t working for me for some reason.
This one works for the walking on water article, which I must say is quite a stretch:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..09_pf.html
And yes, it does seem like there’s a lot of this stuff lately. News tends to be delivered according to a formula nowadays, and I suspect that some news organizations have decided that there has to be a story about Christianity on a more or less daily basis.
Got a long day tomorrow (today) so I’m signing out for the night with this:
Jacob Weisberg wonders why we even need immigration reform and offers the following conclusion.
If only we could be so lucky.
http://www.slate.com/id/2139367/?nav=tap3
Just home from work. long, long day…
1. RBG and shoephone – you have a link to the neo-Nazi Corrie thing in Olympia?
2. Niewert’s essay is brilliant.
Edward T,
I knew I shouldn’t refresh after my last post.
Here’s the story from KING-5. I haven’t been able to track down the local group protesting against the Nazis but could do some digging next week if that was helpful.
http://www.king5.com/localnews…..b7633.html
Edward Teller – here’s another website to look at:
http://www.frolympia.org
scroll down to the fourth post dated April 3, 2006. Titled “100 protestors confront Nazis” or somthing like that.
RBG,
I grew up between Burien and Des Moines. I can’t believe neo-Nazis are rallying in Des Moines! Are they out there in their wheelchairs and walkers?
On second thought, there’s always been an element between DesMoines and Federal Way, up above the Dash Point beach set, who were far right Libertarian. When I lived around there (’52 to ‘65), you couldn’t sell or rent property to blacks, Asians and Jews in places like Normandy Park.
shoephone,
so 10 neo-Nazis show up claiming, among a host of other lies, to support Rachel Corrie, and 150 people show up to challenge the authenticity and sanity of these brownshirts. So the media homes in on Rachel and neglects a host of issues ripe to be opened by any journalist worth the name?
Thanks for the link.
Edward T – our Seattle NBC news affiliate (KING-TV)is only slightly better than the “if it bleeds it leads” stations. And sometimes no better at all.
Bonne nuit.
shoephone,
you too. Hasta manana.
April 7th, 2006 at 1:55 am 128
Racist little shitbag troll has an urgent appointment with Dr. Trex.
Dr markfromireland suggests therapeutic use of the baseball bat across its shins and kneecaps as its testicles are too small to hit with any degree of accuracy.
[RH notes: The troll met his Trex. Just FYI.]
But copy its url first Dr. Trex – it lives in a fetid dumpster if you want dumpster diving this one truly stinks.
Only Europeans have been coerced into the opinion that they need have no concern for their common wellbeing as a people and, even, no living space of their own in which express it.
“Living space of their own….” Thanks for translating it from the original German.
I worked with Morris Dees and I deeply doubt he would say any such thing. Morris is not at all about self-determination in a racially “pure” way that you suggest — he is about peaceful pluralism.
Please supply a link to his statement. If you can, I stand corrected, if you cannot, I call your presumption about his response anti-semetic. And you complain about hatred?
PS You don’t get to decide if you’re a troll or not.
roxtar 131 — pure genius
I worked with Morris Dees at the Southern Poverty Law Center, helped bring down one Klan faction — I doubt he has ever or would ever say what you suggest. Morris — and the work at SPLC is to battle hate and pomote peaceful pluralism and tlerance. He would as soon support the Arab, the Ethiopian, and the Druse in Isreal as anyone I know. He is not in favor of ethnic cleansing.
So, I call bullshit. If you have a link, I stand corrected. If not, I call your presumption (based on what?) peculiar misguided anti-semitism.
Don’t preach about hate around here without first demonstrating you are not filled with it.
Roxtar 131 — sheer genius
Weird double post after preview — sorry all (but it was worth repeating about roxtar!)
OT
.
Let the new round of polls begin !!!!!
Bush, GOP Approval Ratings Hit New Lows
What justice attaches to a refusal of such a debate?
As you formulate the “debate:” the justice of individual human dignity, intergrity and respect.
I think with that comment you have proven David Neiwert’s proposition beyond peradventure.
There was a time, before the left was culturally Marxised,
That would be what, circa 1850?
Yeah, the mid-1800s US populists were very vulnerable to racist manipulation, back when even Poles, Greeks and Serbs weren’t “white” enough.
Some of them got over it, though – by the beginning of the last century. Bread AND Roses, folks!
Guessed worker – are you sad that these people want to injure the divine purity of your master race? Are you bawling and burbling about it right now? How pathetically sad of you.
I haven’t heard ‘miscegenation’ used since the movie “Oh Brother, Where Art Thou?”
“Missy G Nation?” Fabulous drag queen in Baltimore!
David N. of course ROCKS, and I am a frequent visitor to Orcinus. I need the depression to offset my normally manic personality.
DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS!
I went dumpster diving at Guessedworkers blog (called “majorityrights”)for us. It’s filled with invective tripe, race IQ’s, how Leftist blogs lose credibility when they blog (indeed while they are blogging about it, pot meet kettle)
In keeping on topic I read through some ridiculous threads then hit the comments. The following is a sampling from a thread named:
Brainless Leftists
[..] Leftists are great projectors (tending to see their own faults in others) so to know what is true of them, you just have to look at what they say about conservatives. They even accuse conservatives of projection! So they are always trawling for utterances by conservatives that they can characterize as “hate speech”, even though they themselves can hardly open their mouths without pouring out hatred of all those who oppose them.
[..] The intellectual poverty of the Left shows itself very clearly in their lack of ideas. The only way that they can ever think of for bringing about their desired utopias is the brutishly simply one of FORCING people to behave in the “right†way, by way of legislation in democatic societies or on pain of death in Communist societies.
From the the comments:
… “Right, and in exactly the same vein, the photo below shows at a glance one reason leftists love (not “like,†but love, adore, worship, can’t-live-without) non-white immigration in such volumes that whites become a minority: leftists love being the only whites in a room (as Hillary is in the pic), since being surrounded by non-whites sets them off to best advantage, they feel, whereas in a room full of whites they’d feel unnoticed and insignificant.”
… “It might need to be made clear that this is a condition of an unstable mind: at an individual level leftism among native Europeans – not Jews or other aliens – is the expression of a deep and morbid complex” .. “Liberation has always been conflated with death in one world and rebirth in another, and I see the strange, political grasping of this misunderstood model intimately entwined in all the abhorrent leftist ranting about “Nazisâ€, “Racists, “Fascists†et al. These people are committed to a special kind of death, and we are calling them back to the world they fear, for it contains wars and divisions and the natural, Darwinian struggle for advantage and continuity.” .. “The freedom they want does not exist, but they will not listen. They cannot be told that a racially Marxised world will not be perfectly equal and free from hatred, but will teem with horrors. They cannot be told that what they despise – our white race – is very fine and the ultimate good, and once it is lost then our world and theirs is gone forever.” (Posted by Guessedworker on Wednesday, April 5, 2006 at 08:56 AM )
… “Speaking of brainless, hate-filled leftists, a bunch of them just lit into Steve Sailer on this prominent leftist American blog: http://www.firedoglake.com “
… “Their minds are essentially stunted (from the point of view of political development). In addition, a great many “hard-leftists†(and I don’t mean the Arthur Scargill kind, think “Simon”) are driven mainly by jealousy and hatred for people who have become successful. Most such people end up becoming academics because they cannot perform in the market and compete. Many are also lazy and will not put in the effort necessary to be successful.”
… “In any event, I do not see what these assorted leftist hate-folk get from their bloggery. They do not learn from one another, as I am not ashamed to say I learn from you. They must do it simply to get their prejudices confirmed in a world which challenges them wherever they turn (JJR’s idea – not mine).” Posted by Guessedworker on Wednesday, April 5, 2006
… ” Not forgetting that Steve Sailer, whom we’re championing, has had ‘issues’ with MR too. Heap coals of fire on that clever red head.” Posted by Amalek on Thursday, April 6, 2006
… “That thread on firedoglake – the natives seem to have departed the field of combat entirely. No doubt readying their rhetorical big guns, strangely other threads on that site seem still to be active. One has the impression that further visits from majorityrights well wishers could shut down debate over there completely!” Posted by Lurker on Thursday, April 6, 2006
… “If all of us: “Dr Evils†PhD, or at least “Minnimee’s†started commenting there, (And Drip all of our evil), their IQ would increase a little- then again, probably not. Drug abuse and genetics must have links to IQ and its diminished consequences, where race is not the question, so Leftists are borne. That is consistent with equal opportunities and the Universalisms of all being equally as stupid. Must be some derivative of autism ( Intellectual disorder) or schitsophrenia and multiple personality disorders. But one thing is for certain, some form of intelligent life is not one of them, so they are Looters one would imagine. It is quite funny if the consequences were not so fatal.” Posted by Andrew on Thursday, April 6, 2006
…”Well, I threw in my tuppence over at Firewhatever. Christ, the posters there are one hair better than at Stormfront. Actually, at SF posters are better because the bell curve is wider. Posted by Svyatoslav Igorevich on Thursday, April 6, 2006
…”These guys show us in their threads that they are weak and suggestible little people. They seem to know next to nothing about their own political principles. I really don’t know what they are doing running a blog. It’s vanity, I suppose … certainly it isn’t in the service of a higher ideal. Intellectually, they are tumbleweed. If the wind blew in some other direction – say Marxist-Leninism or new-wave libertarianism – they would roll obediently by, mouthing their attachments to the breeze and the dust and their hatred of roots. But I can’t be too angry at them. The European-Americans among them are potential converts, and deserve to hear some truth directly at least once in their blinkered, dullard-liberal lives.” Posted by Guessedworker on Thursday, April 6, 2006
The rest of that thread alone gets worse. Need I say more? Don’t feed this troll that is here on purpose.
frankly, I thought ‘guessedworker’ was actually a ‘troll-in-reverse’ – one of our people posing as a troll – to brilliantly illustrate exactly what Niewert was talking about: hardcore racism posing as mainstream alternative discourse.
someone’s asking for a TREXING!
anyone with the tools to TREX our honored guessed awake yet??
Shez,
Thank you for showing us Guessed Worker’s ideas. No more feeding of this toothless troll.
…thank you David, for all that you do. For years now I have thought of you as the definitive canary in the coal mines of our republic. Please continue……
the last major proponent of ‘guessedworkers’ ideas blew his brains out underground in a bunker as the Red Army marched triumphantly above…
I don’t care about about political divisions of left and right. I care about the survival of my people, and we will not survive beyond another three or four generations.
well, that’s a relief!
FDL’ers, PLEASE don’t bother clicking on any of Guessedwrong’s links or site. Do not give them the traffic. This troll is NOT here to debate but to use a psuedo-superiority complex to inflame and abuse.
Being a Native American healer and medicine woman I have no qualms about going where angels fear to tread, but, now my computer needs to be smudged with sage and purified from visiting that blind arrogant evil.
Our beloved and wise markfromireland called it exactly the way it is: Fetid.
More roots?
Where are the children of all those who were members of the German American Bund in the 1930s?
And what about these products of our immigration policy: “In sum, the influx of former Nazis, Waffen SS veterans, and other Nazi collaborators into the United States during this [post-WWII] period was not simply an oversight or an administrative glitch created by the inefficiencies of the INS. It was, rather, a central, though usually unacknowledged, aspect of U.S. immigration policy of the day.”
“[T]he measures undertaken by the CIA in connection with NSC 86, NSCID 13, and NSCID 14 led to the infiltration of thousands of Waffen SS veterans and other Nazi collaborators into their communities in the United States at the same time. This in turn laid the foundation for a revival of extremist right-wing political movements inside immigrant communities in this country that continue to be active.”
from Blowback by Christopher Simpson
Collier/Macmillan, 1988
Guessedworker – “…Being vile to me might give you a frissant of satisfaction…”
Yes, a frissant for a pissant.
(Sorry, couldn’t resist)
Wow. I never expected to see this sort of an exchange on FDL first thing in the morning.
There was a time, before the left was culturally Marxised, when the Great Issue of race was understood among Europeans everywhere in the same natural, ethno-centric way that it is still understood today by Jews, Chinese, Mexicans, Indians … every other people in the world, in fact. Only Europeans have been coerced into the opinion that they need have no concern for their common wellbeing as a people and, even, no living space of their own in which express it. This, in the long term, is an ethno-suicidal atrategy.
If I were to be charitable and say, perhaps this is true that it is natural for people to live as you describe, I could also point out that until about 225 years ago, the “normal” way for people to live would be in some sort of monarchy or hierarchical power structure, therefore, according to this logic, representative democracy is “against nature” (and there are plenty of those of your ilk who believe that as well). But since your basic premise is as false (though typically embraced by those who know very little about human history) as the one I just laid out, I can only say this:
It is not my “opinion” that I “need have no concern” for the common well-being of my people. In fact I do. I am greatly concerned about the well being of my people. But, it is up to me to define who “my people” are and this is who “my people” are: All of Humanity. Every Single Living Person (including, unfortuntately, you and your deranged compadres) is one of MY people. The well-being of my neighbor, whether she lives next door or in Mexico IS my well-being. The welfare of my enemy, whether he is my ex-husband or Osama Bin Laden is my welfare.
Thats all I have to say on the matter.
But, I do have to commend Jane and Christy for hosting this discussion as it is incredibly important that this topic — racisms — be placed front and center of the national discourse, where it belongs. As a white woman, I am sick and tired of being called a trouble-maker etc every time object to the racist behavior and language that I encounter in my white counterparts (some of whom are family members). One of the most insidious things about this issue is the way so many so-called “tolerant” or “liberal” people simply collapse into silent conspiracy of silence on this issue, an attitude which places enormous pressure on people like me to “not cause trouble” because “it just upsets people” and “it doesn’t do any good.”
It is my “opinion” that we all need to garner as much courage as we can and confront this monster of racism as soon as it rears its head in our daily lives, as it does with all of us. Then we would not have to live in a country where we have to listen to insecure old men hidden behind hats and microphones trash the hair style of a member of the US House of Representatives instead of discussing the substantive issues that confront all of us — such as, for instance, the enourmous disparity of wealth and income on the two sides of the Mexican-US Border. How did that happen, and what can we do about it? Instead of arguing what to do about the millions of people who are suffering because of it.
Again, thank you Jane and Christy and also to David Neiwert for a great piece of writing. Please keep it up.
Shez,
A deep, respectful bow to the power of your medicine.
Yes, a frissant for a pissant.
Ah, ha! Bob Adams, you! Good one.
new thread – old excuses
*Applauds timewarp* Well said!
We are spirits having a human experience and we are truly our sisters and brothers keeper, along with every two legged, four legged, those that fly, crawl, and swim… When humans finally understand that they are just as important as the earthworm, not the other way around, they will start to respect all living life forms as being interconnected in our multidimensional universe.
Not really a commenter, thank you, and please know that you are powerful and sacred, we all are.
The Guessedwrongs of the world don’t seem to grasp there is personal and impersonal unconditional love, the operative word being Love.
David,
Thanx so much for the wonderful post…I have been a reader of “Orcinus” for a couple a years and I admire and respect your reporting and writing skills. Would you support an effort to label the “coservative movement” fascist and the Republican Party, as presently consistuted, criminal? This would be a part of an effort to create an anti-fascist front (coalition) that would include the Democratic Party and any other party or person who opposes the “neo-fascism” we are suffering today.
This effort only needs a coalition of leaders from various entities (Democratic Party, Green Party, Libertarian Party, Southern Poverty Law Center, ACLU, established religious leaders and individuals.) As a front group coalition it could be organized outside of the established political parties and, as such, it could leverage the strength of each without threatening the political independence of any.
I think that such a coalition is the only way we can save our existing political system from the “divide and conquer” stategy of this modern day institutionalised fascism we have today. This would provide cover for politicians and groups to oppose this administration and the Republican Party without being threatened or marginalized with the “anti-American” or “pro-terrorist” lable who force the corporate media to engage in the debate over the labeling and branding of the fascists.
IMO,the only way we avoid a situation this November similar to that which the Germans faced in 1932-33 is to organize such a front-coalition and force a combined opposition.
Thanx again David, I hope we see (hear) more from you in this forum.
KEEP THE FAITH, KNOW WHO YER SHOOTIN’ AT AND SHOOT STRAIGHT!!
P.S. Edit correction last post:
“…or ‘pro-terrorist label AND WOULD force the corp[orate media…”
Reference Elvis Costello’s “Night Rally.” Or Tom Rapp’s “The Tyrant,” based on W. H. Auden’s poem about A. Hitler. Auden:
EPITAPH ON A TYRANT
Perfection, of a kind, was what he was after,
And the poetry he invented was easy to understand;
He knew human folly like the back of his hand,
And was greatly interested in armies and fleets;
When he laughed, respectable senators burst with laughter,
And when he cried the little children died in the streets.
Dave, thanks for this wonderfully written post. I am reading a book by Jon Ronson called THEM, about people who believe in the New World Order, the Illuminati, and other conspiracy theories, many of which have captured the imaginations of the people you write about. What struck me is how banal these people are in daily life, how they seem so normal in normal circumstances. I have neighbors like that.
What the heck happened to all the posts on this subject that I read last night?
Gizmo,
Huh? Why are you the sixth or seventh different wingnut to link ‘liberalism’ to this issue? Is it because liberals are simply right on the issue of race, right about the science and absolutely correct in their policy positions? Seems to me if liberals were wrong you could, you know, state facts and make a case–something that has yet to be accomplished by anyone who has tried to defend the racists that are being blogged about here. Why do you couch what you’re saying in ridiculous pomposity?
Here’s a fact about genetics–despite your obvious inbreeding, you still have the ability to bore people with your failure to grasp basic concepts of right and wrong. Genetics and race have nothing to do with intelligence because of the inherent fault of trying to test a random sample of the population. We are too mixed and intermingled to provide several different sets of ‘racially’ pure subjects that can be studied.
Are you Northern European? Merely five hundred years ago, the world teemed with people who were more likely than not to lay down in the straw and get it on for no apparent reason, early and often and for as little in trade for services as a small coin or a piece of shiny glass in return. A thousand years ago, wenches were there for the taking, so long as a lusty fellow could remove his codpiece and not pass out. Are you getting the picture? Human civilization is a complex patchwork of migrating and screwing, screwing then migrating, moving on and getting it on. If we go back 2,000 years, and look at how Northern Europeans were ‘intermingling’ with people from other regions through war, conquest and simple maritime trade, you might be shocked–shocked!–to find that a Roman soldier from Spain, the Balkans or Syria was your relative. There might even be–perish the thought–French, Sicilian or Jewish blood mixed in through a liason with a pouty lipped slave girl. Gadzooks! Your lily white pure skin must be crawling. Heaven forbid we should go back 2,000 years before that and speculate on whoever else might have intermingled their lustful way into your ‘pure’ bloodline. You might–brace yourself–have the distant characteristics of a dark-complected corsair with big thighs and wild eyes coursing through your DNA.
Given the vitriol of the Republican Party in recent years–Tom Delay being the poster child for vicious invective and strongarm political moves–why are you absoluting shitting yourself at the prospect that there are liberals who can beat you silly at a game your side never mastered?
Amateur hour is over–change your handle and give it another whack, old bean.
“9/11 Changed Everything” is the key to the door of fear that the Bush administration opened in 2001. It changed everything for the GOP. They knew in advance that it would. It’s the “new Pearl Harbor” (see the document for the “New American Century.”)
Ben Tillman,
Huh? Seems to me, the human sexual impulse is taking care of that for you. Liberals aren’t to blame for something as basic as that. Mixed race relationships are everywhere–go on up to a mixed race couple sometime and inquire as to their motivation for defying you and your ilk.
Chemically castrating all of your True Believers will solve that problem and ensure that your racial purity is never tainted (which, if you knew what you were talking about would reveal itself to be a non-existent pipe dream).
The fact is, when you think about yourself as a member of the ‘white’ race, you fail to take into account thousands of years of getting down and wanderlust. There’s almost certainly a healthy mix of DNA in your makeup from an ancestor who doesn’t look anything like you.
Embrace your inner contradictions and speculate as to whether you had a ancestor from any number of delightful places in the world full of people who have a different complexion. You know, those nutty Mongols did a lot of horseback riding back in the day.
Does FDL really attract this level of stupidity?
What we argue for is to maintain what is an essential human right for all others. That is self preservation
You are entitled to what–using guns to kill anyone who fouls your gene pool? What means by which are you going to ensure your survival? How far are you willing to go? Consider this–if you think you can preserve some imaginary idea of a pure race of White People with Northern European-only genetic structure, forget it. You’re a few thousand generations removed from people who lived in Southern Europe and migrated in a generally northern direction in search of food and whatnot.
That’s just the plain fact of the matter. You’re a day late and a dollar short, and the science of it all is easy to ignore if you just wish it away, right? Will that be your next defense? Because if you want to introduce SCIENTIFIC studies to support your contentions, please don’t forget to include the SCIENTIFIC research that establishes where Northern European tribes came from. Trace that line all the way back to East Africa, if you want to bring SCIENCE into this. But, hey–selective use of scientific methods is the weak foundation of most crackpot theories.
Long before the invention of the gun, man was chasing after woman and breeding. The strong survived and the weak did not. Think of the Amazons and how they must have loved finding a short, bald white man with a thick waist and impressive verbal skills.
All of the other ethnic groups you cite are already heavily intermingled with people of Northern European ancestry. Go back enough generations and it will blow your mind to think of who it is you could call your grandpappy and your grandmama.
Makes you want to shit yourself, doesn’t it?
EC wrote: This is a strawman because no one is arguing for “purity†except you bunch of dolts. We all know who is white and we all know that white European nations have been inundated with unwanted, third world immigration.
Yet another troll! When will they learn enough about biology to understand that there is only one race of people? We’re all the same race: HUMAN. (And the trolls are the only ones who are arguing *for* ‘purity’.)
EC 172
We all know who is white
Ya sure about that?
Doncha remember all them wars that were fought back in the old countries? You remember, the ones where one side called the other names that implied they were less than human, let alone “another race”, because they came from a different white area than the other side came from.
Race is a mental construct. It has no basis in biology. Get over yourself.
I’ve noticed that most of those who claim supremacy as a member of “The White Race”, fail to exhibit superiority in any endeavor or appearance outside of their own minds.
Bigotry exists and you’d find plenty of Northern European bigots probably wouldn’t allow “your kind” within their hallowed folds. That’s the way it is with bigots. There is always a more exclusive club than you could hope to join.
Nothing shocked me more than to discover that one of my coworkers, who I thought was a friend, is actually a racist. I called him on it and he denied it, but he knows that I know he is. I can’t even look at him anymore.
We simply must call racism for what it is, whenever and wherever we see it.
do you mean jews aren’t ‘white’? are Italians ‘white’? what about Sicilians? Are Hungarians ‘white’? what about Russians? Spaniards? Do you really want your daughter to marry a drunken, fighting Irishman and be forced to breed incessantly for the good of the Pope?
‘White’ is such a fucking stupid concept! Get over it…
an old joke from WW2: a true German is tall like Goebbels, slim like Goering, eagle-eyed like Himmler and blond like Hitler…
I’ve noticed that none of your visitors have talked about supremacy. We just wish to secure a future for our people.
Fair enough. The trouble is there is no “our people” as you put it. You want to be a “Northern European”? Fine. Try and immigrate then and assimilate as one. Good luck finding the country of “Northern Europe”.
The thing is that if you scratch the surface, many bigots won’t consider “you” as one of “them”. It’s the exclusivity thing, ya know?
And *ilson? Perfect joke.
There. I’m done playing.
“secure a future for our people”
You poor oppressed little thing…
Go get yourself a fucking island to live on and defend your purity of essence. This country is a melting pot. You don’t like it, you leave.
I guess the clincher would be if the Republicans, in a fit of idealism, nominated Condi Rice for President, and then lost the South bigtime.
Ahhh so another troll showed up, and what, only two or three on this topic this time? Our light, brilliance, stakes, and garlic are too much for them. Great smackdowns, especially ‘Not really a commenter’! Wow loved it.
These types don’t understand that the world is meant to, already is, and will evolve into The Race of Tan. It is the karma of humanity and has been known to the mystics for centuries.
God help me, You are telling me that there is actually a Institute of poverty?
That sounds more like a moral conditioning Gulag.
Urgh. My “race” is the human race.
My “people” are the American people. And they come in all colors, shapes, and creeds.
The values of justice, fair play, basic human decency, and equal opportunity are what bind us. They are indeed essential for our long-term survival.
People like our visitors are doing their damnedest to harm that cause.
Ya know, I’m white — blond-haired (once), blue-eyed, of German, English, and French Canadian extraction (with a touch of Cree reportedly thrown in for good measure) — and I really don’t think people like me are in any grave danger of disappearing soon.
We have heard the same thing many times before. Back in 1916, one of the national bestsellers that year was a book titled The Passing of the Great Race, by Madison Grant, which warned that America was about to be swamped by an invasion of Asian hordes who were “unassimilable.” Much of the same crap we hear about Latinos now. And doubtless every bit as accurate.
Why have so many comments been deleted? Does this somehow have an inverse relationship on the strengths of one’s argument? The less it can pass the sniff test, the more dissension must be wiped clean from the record?
Needless to say, all of the remaining comments above have more holes in them than a block of swiss cheese. Easily refuted, though why bother? King David will simply “strike it from the record”. LOL
Besides Madison Grant, there was also Lothrop Stoddard, author of such racist eye-openers as The Rising Tide of Color. Stoddard is briefly parodied in The Great Gatsby(Tom & Daisy Buchanan think he’s great).
David 174
Great post.
When my mother got married in England over 50 years ago, the headline was “Miss ****** marries man from Kent”.
Even within little olde England they made disinctions between us and them. I read later they called some people “from Kent” and others “Kentish men”. Not the same thing. I forget what the distinction is, but to some it counted.
The trouble for those claiming rights for “our people” is that very quickly they’ll find some of those people will deny “our peopleness” to those who want to be considered “our people”.
Three hundred years ago there were no Americans. For that matter, Northern Europeans wouldn’t have identified with being put under a single umbrella. The fact that people can and do today, had no bearing on their lives.
If all the world ends up three hundred years from now without a blond hair amongst them, it has no bearing on how we live our life today. Just as we have our own identifying markers today, like being American or English speaking, so too will they.
And I am sure that some will figure their own ways to assign value, whether specious or not, on something that has no particular intrinsic value, just like some today assign special value to things like having lower levels of melanin compared to others.
Plus ca change and all that.
wtf — overtly racist comments with offensive language get deleted because I decide to delete them. YOu don’t like it — start your own blog and let racist assholes post there all they like. My blog, my delete button. Nuff said.
wtf — And for the record — I deleted a grand total of 4 posts today in this thread. So whatever shit pot you are trying to stir up, stir it elsewhere.
Redd,
You might want to put in a little editor note into MarkfromIreland at 128 for anyone who comes late to the party. Otherwise it’s a real headscratcher.
Well, with all due respect Christy, I can agree about the “your blog, your delete button” statement, though the offensive language assertion is a bit of a stretch. I failed to see any language used by the dissenters as truly “offensive”.
You are obviously free to run your blog as you wish, however a slew of “yeah I agree with that” comments does make for monotony. Differing views is what makes a site interesting. As long as it remains civil and factual and not digress into slurs or unfounded claims. At least in my opinion.
re: 179
I am not trying to stir any “shit pot”. There appears to be more than 4 comments deleted judging by the responses to missing comments on this thread.
I had a similar problem at my blog for awhile. These “intellectual” racists liked to come in and pollute my threads with overt white supremacism, but politely expressed. I let them spew for awhile, just to demonstrate to my readers that, yes, people like this really do exist. But they kept spewing, so I changed my policy to allow for deleting comments like these. There’s no sense in letting them use your blog as a free platform for their hate.
David — exactly, a polite piece of discourse can be educational in terms of twisting the facts or the science or whatever it is that is being perverted to suit their ends. But overtly rude, hateful and disgusting slurs and comments are simply not something that I am going to tolerate — nor should any of our readers have to either. Satan dressed in an Armani suit and tie is still Satan underneath all the trappings.
David,
I have compiled a fraction of the outright racist atrocities at LGF. It exists, and LGF tries to shuffle it under the carpet to protect their image and ward off criticisms of racism.
[Back in those good old times, in 1982, explaining the Klan’s anti-immigrant advocacy, Duke said, “Every new immigrant adds to our crime problems…]
The statement is racist only because he said “every new immigrant”. Of course that is ludicrous. If he had said “on average” and used the qualifier that the statement doesn’t apply to asian immigration, it would have been perfectly correct. Hispanics are incarcerated at 2.9 times the white rate.
I should mention, it includes a few posts by Charles Johnson himself.
Charles Johnson, “Assad Seethes, Whines,” 03.10.03
Charles Johnson, “French Shari’a Watch,” 03.01.03
I don’t have problem with deleting comments, but it sort of looks like I was arguing with myself like an escaped mental patient. Hold on, I need to stop typing and duck down before the doctors see me…
…okay, they’re gone and they haven’t put me back into the straitjacket.
Excellent choices on the deletions, thank you for the opportunity to take shots. One should always express thanks to the host, and my thanks for the opportunity to wander in and hide from my pursuers for a bit…
Beautiful post regarding extremism in our country. My 2 cents follow.
Do we need to protect our borders???
YES! For jobs??? I don’t think so.
Is this truly a problem? I can only speak for myself.
I live half time in a border state, New Mexico. The other half I live in Michigan. Why do I work in New Mexico? I couldn’t find a job in Michigan.
Why, you ask? Evidently, my skills were not sufficient to find employment in Michigan.
My skills, as a 40 year old, were sufficent for McDonald’s, 7-11, and numerous other entry level positions within Michigan.
I REFUSED TO EVEN APPLY FOR THOSE. I ignored the advice of my grandmother, mother, father, grandfather, and the threats from my wife. My family tried to shame me into working, and I agreed with them, for the most part…better to contribute some(after unemployment) than none at all. I knew something better was available.
Yes, my family paid the price for my egotism(in the short term), but we did not suffer. We had no savings, we sacrificed to keep our house and our cars(2…wifey’s and mine).
I have strayed from my subject, I know, with my self-serving story.
But I guess my question is, how many other 40 year olds are TRULY willing to swallow their pride, eat crow, etc, after being let go, to work at McDonald’s? Or 7-11?
Are those jobs, not to say they are meaningless or worthless, truly the jobs we are trying to save?
Bottom line…if you have the skills, you will find employment. If you don’t, you need to look elsewhere.
numfar, the “script” Americans are supposed to follow states in no uncertain terms that unemployed fortysomethings are supposed to form small businesses of some sort, like a Mailboxes etc. store or a coffee shop/bookstore. However, in real life, those guys get crushed pretty quick and wind up divorced and working at Wal*Fart.
I disagree with Orcinus; they may have nailed Aryan Nations, but many of the racist groups have gone underground after the militia movement imploded. Yes the GOP has developed a “Nazi Lite” philosophy, but the “real Nazis”* are still out there, playing werewolf.
______________
* While there have been a number of Nazi/Racist Fascist parties and groups, NONE of them have had the power of the original. I attribute this to the power of Hitler as a speaker/figurehead of the NSDAP, the world economic situation of the 1930s, and their use of the radio as a propaganda organ. (While the Soviets excelled at film propaganda, the Nazis stank at movies for the most part, save for Leni Riefenstahl. Racist/ultranationalist propoganda seems to work best in the sound environment.)
David, you quote Alex Koppelman as saying:
and go on to say
So I googled “Aztlan”. In the first 30 entries — I didn’t bother to go farther — I counted at most five that expressed (perhaps racially motivated) alarm over immigration matters. A few of the sites were from MEChA affiliates and featured “El Plan de Aztlan” whose preamble reads:
If “bronze” were changed to “white”, etc., in this quote, I’d consider it racist. YMMV.
Tom, did they finish it with “..and we will gun the gringo down for the Frito Bandito!”?
I didn’t think so. The MEChA “Plan” was originally drafted in the late 1960s; a lot of the language was taken from the Black Power movement. BTW, I’ve been on campuses with MEChA chapters; I never once saw a meeting, much less armed revolutionaries chanting slogans in Spanish.
Just found this post, sent over from Wolcott. Echoes something that has been bothering me for a long time. The right wing has found out how to stir up hate in a subtle way, that really appeals to a lot of people who don’t even consider themselves prejudiced, let alone white supremacist.
The example I have to live with is my parents. Once relatively enlightened, college educated and devout Methodists, after a few years of watching Fox and listening to people like Neal Boor(tz) they have turned into haters. Sadly, it’s given me a lot of insight into how Nazi Germany could happen.
A conversation with my Mom last week – when I mentioned an upcoming trip to New Orleans, she had to immediately start relating a story, probably from O’Reilly or something similar, about a job fair in Houston for Katrina refugees – “They sent buses to pick people up and no one came”. I have no idea if this is true, since I haven’t heard any stories like this (probably since I don’t watch the hate network), but the point seems clear – those lazy ni**ers don’t want to work, so why should we do anything to help them?
It’s all about appealing to hate and fear and self-righteousness, and it seems to be very effective. My parents listen to this kind of stuff all the time, and have no idea how distorted their views have become. People who once understood the meaning of compassion have been turned into brainwashed haters. It’s so sad, and I haven’t been able to make a dent in their delusions.
What a seriously stupid, bigoted article about right wing blogs. Well crafted and thoughtful sounding, but full of the usual guilt by mind-reading associated with PC psycho-babble. Calling the left on their arguements is not “racism” nor is it fascism.
I’ve never heard one mainstream conservative call for ending immigration. Can any of you name one? No, you can’t because they arent calling for it. We want to end ILLEGAL immigration and enforce existing law. Since when is that racist?
Opposing preferential treatment for one citizen over another due to their skin color(which is what affirmative action IS) is the OPPOSITE of racism.
Bill Buckley a racist? Glenn Reynolds a conservative? My bullshit detector redlined immediately. I didn’t think they made brushes that broad.
And another thing. I’ve been listening to this radical leftwing crap about how Conservatives are going to turn the USA into Nazi Germany for that last 40 years. Still waiting on that one. Get a grip people.
shoeflin writes:
[…..Once relatively enlightened, college educated and devout Methodists, after a few years of watching Fox and listening to people like Neal Boor(tz) they have turned into haters. Sadly, it’s given me a lot of insight into how Nazi Germany could happen……
….A conversation with my Mom last week - when I mentioned an upcoming trip to New Orleans, she had to immediately start relating a story, probably from O’Reilly or something similar, about a job fair in Houston for Katrina refugees - “They sent buses to pick people up and no one cameâ€. I have no idea if this is true, since I haven’t heard any stories like this (probably since I don’t watch the hate network), but the point seems clear - those lazy ni**ers don’t want to work, so why should we do anything to help them?]
So facts that do not agree with your worldview is a lie, or the motive for telling those facts is racism? When did your mom tell you she hates anyone? Can you address her arguments rationally without questioning her motives? That’s called intelligent debate.
Maybe you will trust NPR about the hurricane katrina refugees. I guess thier motive is also racism in your convoluted worldview.
Houston Examines Post-Katrina Spike in Violent Crime
[Morning Edition, January 30, 2006 · Police in Houston late last year noticed an increase in homicides. At the time, they downplayed the potential role of Hurricane Katrina evacuees. Now, the Houston Police Department says hurricane survivors were at least partly responsible for the spike in violence.]
http://www.npr.org/templates/s…..Id=5178286
Ted: “And another thing. I’ve been listening to this radical leftwing crap about how Conservatives are going to turn the USA into Nazi Germany for that last 40 years. Still waiting on that one. Get a grip people.”
Hmm, I’d say the same thing about you rightwingnuts since you folks are constantly pushing the nonsense that liberals were/are trying to turn America into Stalinist communist for years. I’m still waiting on that one.
In other words, you’re one of many rightwingnuts who needs to get a grip. I’d suggest you to taste your own medicine before you can dump your medicine on us.