Feingold and Fitz and FDL!

Fitz baby.

Fire the consultant cocktail class.

Beyootiful, Jane– WE have the memory of elephants. Scary to dems– hope so. Great post.

Just curious: are you sure Campbell wasn’t referring to conservative bloggers?

Did you just coin the word netizens? brilliant!

It reminds me of the fear some people had of “looters” after Katrina. I guess it shows just how powerfull the media is that it manipulate one’s attitudes and perceptions. And… I don’t even watch TV hardly anymore. I get my news through my RSS feeds which puts me and most of us net denizens in a differnet catagorey.

I think it’s more about assuming all (or a majority) or bloggers say bad things about Democrats.

It’s been said so many times before, but FWIW: do they really *want* to loose? I mean, c’mon, isn’t there are much more appealing, relevant, and appropriate enemy for he Democrats to fight than “the bloggers” who have only been doing their homework for the past five years?

We’ve got really excellent candidates in primaries (I’m thinking NY-24 here) who are in danger of being pushed out by pathetic conservo-crat candidates simply because the Dinos in DC prefer compliant yes-men (and women) who will toe the party line. They seem to have the same approach to voters and activists: just do as we say, pay up, get out the vote, and all will be well.

Well, that pathetic strategy lost us ‘00, ‘02, and ‘04, and unless they realize that it’s time to try something else — like listening for a change — ‘06 will be around their neck, too.

I have a slightly different take on Pelosi putting up that diary…

I say “KUDOS!” for one simple reason. That took some guts - she has to know by this point the degree of frustration, anger, and rage boiling over amongst the Democratic Party’s net-savvy activist base.

I think that putting that diary up has the potential to be a very positive move, in the long run.

IF (of course it is a big if) Pelosi, Kennedy, Kerry and etc are willing to learn, pay attention, and take some advice from the people that have the potential to actually form the core of a modern progressive populist movement (that would be us)…then we may have something we can work with.

IF Pelosi reads through (or a savvy, smart staffer reads through) that comment thread and the other diaries, they could pick up some really good material, advice, and constructive criticisms.

Let’s hope that they really can learn.

If not, let’s hope the door doesn’t hit them in the ass on the way out.

That is so sad. That’s like a drowning man saying, “We must battle the life preservers on their own turf! Glug!”

Pathetic doesn’t convey it. What are these people smoking?

Kevin Drum — Doesn’t seem to be Atrios’ reading, and I have a hard time believing conservative bloggers in Philadelphia are a big problem. Certainly not one they couldn’t counter effectively by working with the bounty of Democratic bloggers they have in that city.

angie says:

April 5th, 2006 at 8:50 pm
Did you just coin the word netizens? brilliant!

No, sorry… that’s been pinging around for a while now. Though I have no idea who invented it, I can at least attest to the fact that you haven’t just witnessed it being coined.

OK, just to advocate for the devil, are we sure they mean the progressive blogs, or could they be talking about PJMedia?

I would be so disappointed to know that members of my party are talking about the Jane Hamshers of the Left as people to do battle with–as opposed to embrace, and invite to dinner. Are Democrats in Philadelphia that politically brain-dead? I am reminded of the Mo Udall aphorism about a Democratic firing squad being formed in a circle.

Kevin Drum says:
April 5th, 2006 at 8:50 pm
Just curious: are you sure Campbell wasn’t referring to conservative bloggers?

Kevin,

This Philly Demo blog dis stuff came out on the blogs a few hours ago, and you’re the first person I’ve seen ask that question. Needs to be answered - and soon.

I for one, no longer get my news via the 10 second soundbites from the evening news programs. I subscribe to various online news sources and yes, I feel I am better informed about issues than when I watched two hours of news every night on TV. I can debate issues more intelligently now, and I owe that to blogging and reading good blogs such as this one.

Alaskan_Pete,

Been hoping to be here when you also are.

I live between Palmer and Wasilla on Neklason Lake. Where are you?

I’m with Kevin Drum here, are peopole sure that they didn’t mean conservative bloggers?

I am a moderate by nature, and do mind moderate or even safe, or cautious strategies. but problem is I hear nothing organized, consistent and sustained. That is the problem I have, and I do not demand constant inyourface political theatre. The commenter carot in last thread had some good suggestions about how even the current very cautious strategy could be played to advantage to voters. Carot had some good ideas about how the Dems can act relatively chicken shit (sorry carot, but that is my interpretation of the strategy), and yet score some points with the public and do some public education. But I had to reply that if that kind of chickensht strategy existed, then we would be hearing some consistent message. Problem with me is not that they are 100% or 90% or 50% of maximum aggressiveness, but that they are so close to zero by any measure that it does not register with the voters.

As I have said, seems to me like moderation is being confused with no vision or position or stand. Responsibility is being confused with passivity. My Dx is too many organization people.

Poor rwcole is drinking some kind of tomato juice an likker thing because we beat up on Dems again. Cheer him up please.

thank- you, Jeremius for answering my wee question! It seemed Janeian to me– you know, clever and all. I have to find out who coined that though– ’tis brilliant.

Jane, you sound like you’re channeling Reagan’s 11th commandment. . . in reverse.

Just went to Young Philly Politics and they have a post on this with only one comment. No post at attytood, surprising. What a totally silly position to take.

I’m half asleep, but sure have enjoyed myself here tonight.

Sweet Dreams, friends

zen

Sweet dreams to you zen and take care of yourself! Goodnite all.

Another instance of the painful clear state our of affairs… politicians are drop out stupid bully power hungry fool wastrels.

by Chris Bowers, Tue Apr 04, 2006 at 10:42:19 PM EST was the headline on the Matt Stoller link. Jane, did you really mean Matt Stoller? I don’t follow mydd, so maybe they are one in the same. or not???

Pach — I think that’s appropriate for other Democrats. I don’t think Pelosi should come out and bash Russ Feingold or Cynthia McKinney, I think she should be bashing Rush Limbaugh and everyone else who uses the word “ghetto” to describe her. I think it is appropriate for us to be critical of Democrats but I think we need to be careful how we do it. I try never to use language like “weak” or “spineless” that reinforce GOP talking points. Per Digby.

uhgh. ya got a morning after pill handy?

RedDan @ 8.53PM,

But… you go through the whole discussion on ‘Kos following Pelosi’s post, and the one thing that’s notably missing is any response from her to the criticisms raised. Zip. Nada.

And so, I’m not sure what’s so damn gutsy or potentially positive about her dropping off a statement and then simply wiping her hands off, turning away, and leaving as the torrent of feedback starts coming in. It’s little different than sending out a press release, and that’s exactly the wrong way to interact with the ‘net roots.

More than anything it shows how clued out Pelosi & her media advisers must be if she really thinks that this will have an impact on the Kossacks.

VG — thanks you’re right. Duly noted and changed.

Damn hard to persuade voters you’ll stand up to al Qaeda when Dems can’t even credibly show that they can stand up to loud-mouthed bloviating bootlicking party-over-country chickenhawk Republicans.

Goooo Dems! Win by default.

Wait impassively for the Republicans to implode, then peek meekly into the smoking ruins of whatever remains of the country, its military, its economy, and its Constitution and expect Americans to welcome you for saying, doing, proposing virtually nothing to slow much less stop the avoidable nitwitteries, immoralities and atrocities of the last six years.

Now that’s strateregerizing.

Is Bob Schrum back in bidness?

What the Democratic politicians need to understand is that blogs are the Democratic equivalent of think tanks. The GOP has built, over the decades, these ivory towers of policy wonkery and populated them with their intelligentsia (and I use that word loosely here). All GOP analysis and policy come from these insulated priests, the torchbearers of their messaging.

But the liberals, the progressives, and the leftists have always been driven by the people determining what’s important. The Democratic politicians follow their lead instead of choosing the path. When these politicians stray too far from or fall too far behind what the people want they become embattled and start to lose relevance. I think that’s the shift happening now. The establishment political system doesn’t serve the average American anymore, and the Democrats are finding the ground quaking beneath their feet.

We don’t have the Heritage Foundation or Rand or PNAC or even weekly doughnuts and coffee with Grover. What we do have now, however, is an interconnected community of activists who have more in-depth knowledge now than could be imagined a decade ago. The blog community is the Democratic Party’s open source think tank. It has the potential to be bigger than than all of the GOP think tanks combined.

Jane,

I left some Lucianne links in the last late night Wolfie thread below.

As for the blogger comment, you can find some diaries on this stuff at Booman. I’m pretty sure that Chris Bowers at MyDD has written about it in the last couple of days too. The impression I got from all these pieces is that this quote is indeed mentioning progressive, not conservative, bloggers.

Well, let’s assume for a moment that they DO mean “fight conservative bloggers on their own turf.” Then, that begs the question–what the hell do they think we’re doing? Do they think conservatives run the blogosphere or something? How uninformed is that?

I would guess they had some sort of consultant babble some internet buzz phrases at them, and out of that word salad came the phrase “fight bloggers on their own turf.”

Hell, I’m just happy they finally found the word “fight.”

Bullgoose — thanks, I was missing ya ;)

I seriously doubt the comment was directed at the “heh, indeedy” echo chambers or racist forums that comprise the right wing blogosphere. They have no political power, serving merely as transmitters for the official messaging just like every other form of media. If the comment were meant to cover right wing blogs the message wouldn’t single them out. It seems clear to me the Philadelphia party establishment feels threatened from the powerful left wing blogs. Ours is the community upsetting the party machinery.

puppethead #29
“The blog community is the Democratic Party’s open source think tank”

That is brilliant. They need to recognize that.

puppethead,

Well put, and unlike the GOP think tanks, we’ve got nothing to hide. They can read it (and weep) here. No dirty tricks, just the truth.

Moonbats from the feverswamp. Imagine it as DC cartoonists might. Hard part is imagining the hero (in Armani perhaps) routing those evil-doers. And if the party of death aren’t evil-doers, who the hell are?

Supplanting discussion with Manichean finger-pointing is un-American. America is on the ropes. And we are pray to a lot of external influences (including those from inside our borders who don’t really “live” here, if you know what I mean - “oh, that grocery scanner is a really cool thing”).

The blogosphere should be ridden, understood. There will be no cocktail weenies. But a part of American history that can be recounted in pride.

(snarks in next post) :-)

Jane 24: That is precisely my position.

Kevin Drum says:
April 5th, 2006 at 8:50 pm

Just curious: are you sure Campbell wasn’t referring to conservative bloggers?

I had this question too. However, after having read responses from Jane and others above, I’d say not a reference to conservative bloggers. BUT, it would be interesting to put the question straight up to Carol Campbell, no?

http://youngphillypolitics.blo.....urage.html
===It will be exactly one year since this city’s political leaders shelved the Route 15 trolley - an estimated $82 million public works project that was already paid for, and ready to resume its historic route along the Girard Avenue corridor.

Why?

Because Carol Campbell, a ward leader who also happens to be an officer in Philadelphia’s Democratic City Committee, didn’t want to lose parking on one side of a block in her neighborhood.

“I don’t think anyone would really have objected to the trolley itself, but when they started talking about taking away the parking, well, that was a different story,” said Campbell, who lives on the adjacent block.===

“What they’re battling is informed voters who follow the news in real-time, hate being patronized and don’t fall for the kitchen scraps gobbled up by people who are only paying half attention to this shit.”
Thanks for a great post, Jane.

thingwarbler,

I, for one, do not really expect Pelosi to sit at her computer blogging responses to 400 or more irate, tech and net savvy Kossacks.

First, she is probably a very busy person.

Second, I would hope that the point of her diary was to run up a flag and see what responses came, and then review those responses.

The real test of “listening” will be if a follow-up is posted with critiques addressed…and the ABSOLUTE test of “listening” will be a demonstrable change in behavior.

Example: Kerry has posted several times over at Kos, has gotten an earful and more. He has responded to some of those critiques, both directly in comments (very few) and indirectly with follow-up diaries…and now we see a pretty decent change of behavior as evidenced by the NYT editorial.

Let’s see if Pelosi can do the same.

They need us, and I think they are starting to realize it.

One thing that we obsessives need to learn is to accept prodigals back into the fold if they demonstrate the ability to grow and change - even a little.

Holding grudges, maintaining vendettas (presuming that grudges and vendettas are not warranted, and yes, Josh Trevino (or Joe Lieberman), that means YOU!) is counterproductive.

Kevin Drum: Bowers apparently has the scoop on this. It’s inside Philly stuff.

He writes about it here:

http://www.mydd.com/story/2006/4/5/1318/40809

Hey, if us internet fever swamp crazoids are the enemy, how come they’re always asking us for money? WTF is up with that?

I saw the change, Jane. Thanks. AND… in view of the article I found above, re: parking, I think it can be safely assumed that Carol Campbell meant the er… progressive blogosphere, or, to be fair, any kind of blogosphere.

Lookie here.

Certainly not one to plug much ado about Wal-Mart, but, in what may be a sign that the national fever of right-wing, intolerant evangelical Christians calling the shots for corporations. Wal-mart is carrying BrokeBack Mountain despite the letter writing campaigns generated by the American Family Association.

http://www.contactmusic.com/ne.....t_04_04_06

Battling bloggers? Send that woman a helmet and a late notice.
If I were a conservative, I would think that Dem is ready to tax the blogs.

A couple of things regarding Pelosi… first off, don’t think for a moment that “when Nancy is out in her own district, and she tells people that she’s filing resolutions against Tom DeLay, everyone applauds and thinks that’s a really good idea”… her last town meeting in San Francisco featured a whole lot of pissed off constituents asking why she supported the Iraq war and why she wasn’t supporting Bush’s impeachment. In the Bay Area, she’s considered a wishy-washy moderate, at best.

Secondly, this isn’t the first time Pelosi has posted something over at Kos, and the reaction is generally always the same. What pisses people off most, it seems, is her refusal to participate in any sort of dialogue. It’s always “drive-by” posting, no questions taken.

Finally, the SF Chronicle did a 3-part series on Pelosi’s strategy as House Minority Leader this week that you might find interesting. Pay special attention to who she’s getting money from - Don Fisher is not exactly big on “progressive” politics.

cleter says:

Hey, if us internet fever swamp crazoids are the enemy, how come they’re always asking us for money? WTF is up with that?

___________

B/c there’s a large segment of establishment Dems who prolly still look upon the netroots in precisely the same way the GOP looks upon its own hard-right evangelicals: as a necessary evil, to be both feared and loathed in secret, to be thrown a sop when it’s opportune and undamaging, and to be soaked for donations when inflamed, but ultimately: to be neutered and ignored when inconvenient.

If they’re only talking about battling conservative bloggers, which ones are they? Are they talking about the Dan Rather “takedown” crew, or something local? I’d be really surprised if they’re not talking about the meddlesome “fever swamp” that is Daily Kos, Firedoglake, etc.

I was listening to Air America (Randi Rhohes) earlier. She nailed Tom DeLay IMO. If he’s such a Christian, he’ll have to eventually face the court of God. BUT, he’s not willing to face the court of law, or the voters in his own district. I guess God told him he’s an asshole ; ) Sorry if that offends anyone but I thought it was spot on.

Last Sunday on TV Evan Bayh gave a Pelosi-like review of Feingold’s censure resolution. Bayh may be the best we can expect for a Dem in a conservative state like Indiana but that doesn’t mean that he should have any delusions about his chances of getting the Dem nomination for 2008. From the reviews he gets whenever he posts over at HuffPo, he should put that delusion to bed and be content with his seat in the senate. He is not going to get the Dem nomination.

OfT, but this made me laugh.

Checking my email box, scanned the Subjects (from NewsMax - I sub. to it to see what the other side is talking about) and found:

“URGENT POLL ON KATIE COURIC”

If THIS is what NewsMax thinks is urgent, tonight, we rest easy!

Huckermill, depressing but probably true.

Now, if Pelosi (or whoever) actually used this medium to “rap” [parenthetical comment omitted] with their constituency we would all be better off.

But they wouldn’t be, would they?

So, the next generation of politician’s (and its like science, you have to outlive the fuddy-duddies) will have staffs that can handle the comments and appease the angry commentors. Don’t know if I look forward to that or not…

“I don’t think anyone would really have objected to the trolley itself, but when they started talking about taking away the parking, well, that was a different story,†said Campbell, who lives on the adjacent block.

Let me rephrase that:
“I don’t think anyone would really have objected to the trolley (blogosphere) itself, but when they started talking about taking away the parking (money for the bendover Democrats), well, that was a different story,†said Campbell, who lives on the adjacent block.

I know that everybody’s watching us, but what I believe sets us apart is to use language and sentiment that is honest. Nobody here spares the rethugs or dems who are opportunistic; I like that. FDL is all about being ‘fair and balanced’. Dems will win again when we speak the truth, exclusively. I so understand playing the game, but the game is out of control and into spin the bottle on crack.

dave — thanks, good links and points.

That “fever swamp” thing is bulls**t, anyhow. It hearkens back to an erroneous, pre-bacterial medical belief that dieases like malaria and such were caused by miasmas and bad airs. So, when that right-wing dorkwad on Blitzer referred to fever swamps, not only was he displaying ignorance of the blogs, it probably means he’s so fu**king stupid he doesn’t know what germs are. He probably thinks the sun revolves around the earth.

Of course, he might have been speaking metaphorically. But, these people are often literalists, so maybe not.

Cozumel, thanks. Its a problem with us snake handlers that we sometimes think God won’t have witnesses.

dave:

Thanks for the Chronicle link.

I’ll read it tomorrow when I can keep my eyes open.

Goodnight, all!

I really do need a link to the coat hanger with blood spots graphic of a couple of weeks ago, to use in my Con Law class tomorrow when we discuss Roe v. Wade.

good point, cleter! bravo for envoking the dark and middle ages where the miasmic rethugs lurk.

Blogger envy.

It’s a classic Shelly Berman routine.

“The morning after…the night before. My tounge…is asleep…and my teeth…itch!”

Good times, good times!

But about the “bloggers” question, couldn’t somebody like Atrios go have a phone conversation or, better yet, a face-to-face under a flag of truce to see (a) if there’s an issue and (b) if so, if it could be defused?

Not everything has to be done on the internets to make it virtually real, right?

You have to understand the Philly thing in context. Philadelphia Dems believe–and say explicitly–that they have the last really functional city machine. While Daley has a personal machine in Chicago, it’s truly personal, in a way that his father’s wasn’t. It exists around him, and only Daley keeps it together.

Philly has a real machine–where the union leaders and ward leaders get together and divvy up the spoils together. Since Democrats are guaranteed victory, the only thing they have to fear is a challenge within the party. Bloggers and new activists are therefore the only enemy that really matters to them.

When Campbell formed the committee, she said explicitly that the machine had to reform its practices–not its ethics–to survive and learn to outcompete its challengers.

They are dead serious about stamping out insurgents that threaten their turf, and it has nothing to do with ideology; they’re good lefties in their voting. It’s about dollars.

The lesson activists will have to learn from this is the lesson that the insurgent conservatives learned; you can’t always work with the system. Sometimes, you have to be willing to tear it down. The religious right is willing to go after Republican powerbrokers it disagrees with; activists on the left have to be willing to do the same, not just with Lieberman but across the board. Power is the only thing these people respect.

Hell, I’m just happy they finally found the word “fight.â€

Yeah, but about US?! WhatEVER! What, are there job openings in their circular firing squad?

I am beginning to feel increasingly that we are on our own, here, people. They abandoned Murtha, swiftboated Hackett, and ran from Feingold like he farted in church. And now they’re using that kind of combative language toward us, the base?

They fucking deserve to lose at this point!

George Will mentions Fitz in his latest article.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....01955.html

Is anybody else faintly creeped out the juxtaposition of Nancy Pelosi’s grim visage and the phrase “The Morning After?”

Her eyes keep following me. It’s creepy.

Prof — Scott’s coathanger here.

puppethead: The blog community is the Democratic Party’s open source think tank. It has the potential to be bigger than than all of the GOP think tanks combined.

Wow. What an insight.

(from one of the mosquitos in the fever swamp)

I hate it when we are branded as a bunch of angry misfits.

Angry, yes, but not misfits!

Prof- #60

I did a Google on “South Dakota, Firedoglake, rape” and got to the FDL archive - http://firedoglake.blogspot.co.....se-of.html

The graphic you are looking for was titled “New State Logo” but it no longer available in the archive. Said it was from “http://photobucket.com/”

looks like it is free to join photobucket. Hope this helps.

RedDan at 41,

Absolutely. Further the resource drain isn’t that big. The trick is to make the medium (and let people know!) the norm or new standard.

T Rex-
Exactly! I want to shake that Carol Campbell person and say “No, no, the enemy is OVER THERE! We’re your BASE, you fool!”

Jane, big thanks.

al-Scooter, someone else is old enough to remember Shelly Berman’s routine?

Sorry, Prof. Guess I was wrong. Glad Jane is on the J - O - B, though!

Good luck tomorrow!

GSD @ #45

Eeeehhh…That’s biznezz, because they know that 1) the units are going to fly off the shelves in the initial release period (And nothing warms a Walton heart more than Cha-Ching!), 2) no Fundie worth their well-clutched KJV will be paying for one, unless it’s on the down low with the lights off, thus real money trumps the imaginary and 3) Wal-Mart’s position as more-equal-than-others purveyor of dry goods to the American outback means they’re in a comfortable position to tell the Star-Spangled Taliban ‘Learn to knit with homemade twine if you don’t like it, Jedediah’, should they be so foolish as to bandy the idea of a boycott about beyond what loose talk the corporation deems reasonable.

Don’t these people understand we want them to win? I get the strong sense that to many politicians, they view us as a threat. I don’t see it that way, not until I run for political office…

TRex at 65 (FDL, et al, see if you can make these sort of references a “right click” sort of thing),

You have inspired me to look back at how new parties are formed. There is definately one in the making.

dave — that Pelosi article was very interesting. I certainly hope you’re not right and she never reads her diaries, that they are pure drive-bys. That would be incredibly stupid at this stage of the game and she does not strike me as stupid. But even Jane Harmon stuck around to answer some of her critics, and people respected her for it. I think the collateral damage would’ve been a lot less had Pelosi chosen to do so.

Alaskan_Pete >”…Fire the consultant cocktail class.”

Uhhh, me thinks it should be

cocktail consultant class

“A nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.” - John F. Kennedy

53 tryggth says:

Huckermill, depressing but probably true.

Now, if Pelosi (or whoever) actually used this medium to “rap†[parenthetical comment omitted] with their constituency we would all be better off.

… But they wouldn’t be, would they?

So, the next generation of politician’s (and it’s like science, you have to outlive the fuddy-duddies) will have staffs that can handle the comments and appease the angry commentors. Don’t know if I look forward to that or not…

______________

Dem staff staph infections.

Could lead to netroot defections.

Where’s the real fever swamp?

In the minds and words and actions of projection-minded “I-know-you-are-but-what-am-I” sucker-punching “preemptive” (”it’s all the rage; alla kids are doin’ it!”) Republicans.

And in the cage-trained reactionary minds of cynical and cowardly Dem strategists, consultants, insular beltway denizens and the like.

A veritable bacteria cafeteria.

Jane,

I love your blog, other left wing blogs and share your goals of honest competent government. I also beleive that the left wing bloggers deserve a lot of credit for sticking with stories and helping them stay alive until they reach the mass media.

A point of criticism I would offer is the growing sense of hubris and narcissism in these blogs (including yours) now that national political fortunes are turning in a direction we support. Currently, blog readers are something like 2% of the electorate and in spite of the fact that we are highly informed, that doesn’t translate into a dominant political force.

Maybe you should go through a thought experiment and ask yourself how you would approach a personal election campaign in a district that was split 50-50 Dem/Gop. Would you use the word “wingnut” in your daily rhetoric? I think not.

You’re actually a politician too Jane and your constituents are your readers. They love it when you slam right wingers. But your prose would offend many other and that’s why the Democrats need to keep the blogs at arms length.

Keep up the great work.

Rich

Prof >”I really do need a link to the coat hanger with blood spots graphic…”

I went to the old site and did a few searches and couldn`t find anything; went as far back as early February & nada

“…It is in the religion of ignorance that tyranny begins…” - Benjamin Franklin

These people are fucking CRAZY. We are the people! Without us they’re dead. Or maybe they’re all Republicans……a scanal there if ever I saw one. Either that or the Democrats are the biggest collection of idiots on the planet…I’m just saying…to quote Jane and Christy

That Rich isn’t me.

sorry ot,
IMO, The Clinton scandal re: the Lincoln bedroom doesn’t hold a candle to this..

Is That Really Ann Coulter???
I’m not sure, but it does look like her. How stupid do you have to be to take nekkid pictures of yourself in the White House?
http://www.moxiegrrrl.com/2006.....ulter.html

Writing in from Pelosi’s district, I have to second Dave’s assessment above. Nancy Pelosi is widely viewed aas a sell-out and a let-down. She appears in public only rarely, and when she does, she gets hissed. She’s a corporate stooge, and (like Dianne Feinstein) is in office mainly to carry water for developers and sweatshop profiteers.

The other Rich was asking an interesting question…

How does FDL move to the next step.

And, with apologies to FDL super-minions ( :-) ) for presenting this answer, they are doing it by what they do.

One of the most pathetic aspects of the Philadelphia Democratic Party, as with other Democratic party organizations, is that they don’t even have a web site or email feature allowing Democrats to communicate with them. It is as though they are in a top down mindset; they set the agenda, distribute it to the voters, and everybody fall in. They appear to view anyone who wants to engage in some actual communication with them as an enemy that needs to be “taken on”. If this is truley the case, the Democratic party is in worse shape than I thought. Here’s hoping that this particular Stalinist party approach is limited to Philadelphia.

#74 Prof,

Last of the Mohicans, we are.

I got to see him live in his prime, in a club environment when I was barely old enough. I still remember one of his political lines:

“We liberals just can’t wait to lose so we can shoot our wounded! We just love shooting our wounded!”

Kind of sad that 40 years later, that line is so very on-topic tonight.

I don’t understand how the Kos site works, that’s why I rarely go there. How do you post a comment to a diary?

BTW I wasn’t very impressed with Pelosi’s diary. I didn’t feel like she was talking to US–it struck me as more like a press conference (statement only–no questions allowed).

I certainly hope you’re not right and she never reads her diaries, that they are pure drive-bys.

I don’t follow Kos’ site that closely, but from the comments I’ve read there, that seems to be the general feeling. You might want to check with some more devoted Kossacks.

But even Jane Harmon stuck around to answer some of her critics, and people respected her for it.

Actually, IIRC, she stuck around for about fifteen minutes, and then split, which pissed the natives off even more than if she’d not “participated” at all. Again, checking in with more committed Kossacks on this would be a good idea.

Rich at 82:
I don’t see it.
Rich, my tax dollars are paying for State sponsored torture, secret Eastern European prisons and the demolition of the 4th Amendment.

I am very uncomfortable with this high altitude criticism you make.
“A point of criticism I would offer is the growing sense of hubris and narcissism in these blogs (including yours) now that national political fortunes are turning in a direction we support. Currently, blog readers are something like 2% of the electorate and in spite of the fact that we are highly informed, that doesn’t translate into a dominant political force.”
Do you have a link? Is there a particular position that Jane or Christy has taken in a specific post which you can provide as a specific example of this hubris or narcissim?
I find the use of those words very unsatisfactory. Jane and Christy post, the rest of us comment. Are you criticizing Jane and Christy’s posts or the comment’s section? IMO Jane and Christy, and Pach, and the other guest posters are leading a fight for the soul of our country. A fight which is lightyears from being over, and in which we are decided underdogs.
Please, we need all the help we can get. In no way is my comment intended to cut off discussion.
Also, if you know of someone, who in your option does it better, please provide a link and let me look for myself. Speaking only for myself I felt an air of condescencion in your comment towards Jane and Christy.
Also you made the statement that blog readers account for something like 2% of the electorate. That’s a very interesting statistic. Do you have a link for that?

OT and Re Comments #5 and #12

“Netizens” is an ancient internet term, predating the web itself. I first heard it on the usenet newsgroups and assumed that it originated there, but it could be even older.

ah well, not the first time I have been late to a party! LOL at myself!

neurophius

Imagine yourself being in a room with 5000 people and trying to talk when they are all screaming at you. That’s the effect that pol’s like Pelosi, Kerry et al get when they post on a blog like Kos.

Sad when you think of it that so many little children all think at once that THEY should get attention.

The way of warrior teaches that you don’t respond to attacks like “spineless” with similar tactics. When bloggers learn to have civil discourse with and about politicians they might get more done.

If you want respect you have to treat people with respect. Politicians aren’t in office for the every whim of bloggers and their constituents are from both parties in reality. Everyone needs to learn to work together and play nice with others. Unions get that, other lontime political activists get that. When will bloggers?

dave — no I followed the Harman diary. She did stick around, it wasn’t for long but people did engage her in a respectful fashion for doing so.

I really like Dkos, & I read all of the posts on their homepage every day, but the threads are a bit crazy. They are way too fast moving and confusing IMO.

You have to register to comment there (link on the right side of the page). Once you register, & are logged in, it will show you how many new posts are on a thread from the last time you opened it. Once you open a comment thread, all of the posts on that thread are counted as read.

I guess it’s better when you have that many people posting that you can reply to a particular post instead of at the bottom, but it’s still a rat race nonetheless.

liberal realist:
Could you provide an example from an FDL post?

Rich

If Jane Hamsher is on the campaign trail trying to convince voters to support Democratic candidates retail style, your point is well taken. However, as it turns out, that does not appear to be the main strength of FDL. Its strength is organizing a large number of like minded activists to move politics to a progressive agenda. Large number here means, enough to put their money where their mouth is when it comes to the financial support for a candidate who needs it to win an election. Keep your eye on the ball. It’s the money that makes the website relevant at this point. Relevant here means, causing a candidate to listen and support the FDL progressive agenda. Let other AOL type political websites do the retail work, and let Jane Hamsher be Jane Hamsher. She and Redd are good at it, and I’m glad to see you too support them.

Tom

liberal realist:
I understand what you are saying, but and it is a big but, I write old fashioned style, fax, email and phone my elected rep and senators with nary a response. They do not speak to their constituents. I did try to find out where and when I could meet with them during the new found St. Pat’s break to no avail. They are not Kings or Kings, and I beg you to tell me, how do I speak to them? How does my voice get heard? I try to have civil discourse but they don’t listen.

What John Casper said (No. 93).

they are not Kings or QUEENS is what I meant.

and I feel like a vassal. Decidedly and happily not a monarch of any kind.

FWIW the “new breed” troll over at the HuffPo doesn’t engage in Coulter-esque name calling because they started banning them. So the professional GOP trolls changed their tactics. They spend most of the post identifying themselves as “liberals” and then throw out something really shitty and insulting in the middle and say “you do us liberals a disservice with…”

Not that is applies to anyone in this thread (*cough* Rich *cough*) but don’t think we’re stupid.

“identifying themselves as ‘liberals’â€

Jane: you mean like “liberal realist” No. 93?

angie 101,

I get the same lack of any response from politicians here in VA. All of my reps & senators have always been republicans so it’s no surprise to me that they don’t reply. Sen Warner actually has sent me a response on a few occasions, but on each occasion it was just a generic form letter that didn’t address my concerns at all.

I email & call them all the time anyway. I’m not about to lay down my sword.

Again, with apologies to those who know better than me:

Happy Birthday Colin. Faster please.

Good night all.

John Casper

Just noting the general tone on diaries such as Pelosi’s, Kerry’s etc on Kos, the HuffPo and blogs in general. I didn’t metion FDL, I mentioned Kos, in discussing the Pelosi diary there and responding to neurophius.

It’s an interesting phenomena, but think about this- you’re at a political rally and there are 5000 people there and the politician speaks. Do those 5000 act like children, engage in namecalling and use obscenities when the politician speaks? No. So why do it on the internet.

If your friends and family talked to you the way some people respond to politicians on the blogs would that be acceptable to you? My guess is no.

When a politician takes the time to post on a blog it’s like hearing him or her speak at rally and if you are lucky they will answer a few questions. They are busy, busy, busy people. They don’t have time to hang on the blogs and honestly why would they want to. Have you seen the crap that is posted around the blogosphere? You would not want anyone saying things about you on the internet would you? Calling you names - besmirching your record because they don;t like one a few things about you.

It’s psych 101 IMHO.

I’m sorry, I meant “liberal realist” No. 96