Comments on: Late Nite FDL: Incomprehensible Demoralization http://firedoglake.com/2006/03/19/late-nite-fdl-incomprehensible-demoralization/ Firedoglake weblog Tue, 24 Nov 2009 21:29:31 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Dumbo http://firedoglake.com/2006/03/19/late-nite-fdl-incomprehensible-demoralization/#comment-54341 Dumbo Mon, 20 Mar 2006 22:36:25 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/03/19/late-nite-fdl-incomprehensible-demoralization/#comment-54341 <p>Cocktail weenies in the corner. I’m being SHUNNED for cocktail weenies!</p> Cocktail weenies in the corner. I’m being SHUNNED for cocktail weenies!

]]> By: John Moltz » Blog Archive » Enough. http://firedoglake.com/2006/03/19/late-nite-fdl-incomprehensible-demoralization/#comment-54324 John Moltz » Blog Archive » Enough. Mon, 20 Mar 2006 21:08:34 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/03/19/late-nite-fdl-incomprehensible-demoralization/#comment-54324 <p>[…] Jane Hamsher. […]</p> […] Jane Hamsher. […]

]]> By: Old Sow http://firedoglake.com/2006/03/19/late-nite-fdl-incomprehensible-demoralization/#comment-54266 Old Sow Mon, 20 Mar 2006 20:04:46 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/03/19/late-nite-fdl-incomprehensible-demoralization/#comment-54266 <p>Web page detail…..also upper left ad covers part of the text in my browser</p> Web page detail…..also upper left ad covers part of the text in my browser

]]> By: Druthers http://firedoglake.com/2006/03/19/late-nite-fdl-incomprehensible-demoralization/#comment-54242 Druthers Mon, 20 Mar 2006 19:36:16 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/03/19/late-nite-fdl-incomprehensible-demoralization/#comment-54242 <p>How can anyone possibly imagine that voters have any enthusiam about Liberman, Pelosi or Biden. Our democracy is going down and the word of the day is “It is urgent to wait.”<br /> Other that wanting to rid the country of this administration what is there to attract any young person? The democrats in Washington have decided on Hillary and want the children to go outside and play.<br /> Pelosi is making a mistake, things are not going well for Democrats, they are going badly for Republicans. It is not the same thing.</p> How can anyone possibly imagine that voters have any enthusiam about Liberman, Pelosi or Biden. Our democracy is going down and the word of the day is “It is urgent to wait.”
Other that wanting to rid the country of this administration what is there to attract any young person? The democrats in Washington have decided on Hillary and want the children to go outside and play.
Pelosi is making a mistake, things are not going well for Democrats, they are going badly for Republicans. It is not the same thing.

]]> By: egregious http://firedoglake.com/2006/03/19/late-nite-fdl-incomprehensible-demoralization/#comment-54185 egregious Mon, 20 Mar 2006 18:50:54 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/03/19/late-nite-fdl-incomprehensible-demoralization/#comment-54185 <p>Eeek, I can’t load any page other than this one that’s been up for a while. </p> <p>It gives an error message: This account has been suspended. Please contact the billing/support department as soon as possible. The location is given as <a href="http://gator77.hostgator.com/suspended.page/">http://gator77.hostgator.com/suspended.page/</a></p> <p>:(</p> Eeek, I can’t load any page other than this one that’s been up for a while.

It gives an error message: This account has been suspended. Please contact the billing/support department as soon as possible. The location is given as http://gator77.hostgator.com/suspended.page/

:(

]]> By: Anne http://firedoglake.com/2006/03/19/late-nite-fdl-incomprehensible-demoralization/#comment-54136 Anne Mon, 20 Mar 2006 18:12:52 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/03/19/late-nite-fdl-incomprehensible-demoralization/#comment-54136 <p>I think you have to build strategy upon principle, and I see no shortage of principles that the Dems can run on. The strategy has to be one that will highlight our principles and at the same time contrast them with the reality of the at least the last five years.</p> <p>The one thing they get us with every time, and which I wish we had a more prepared answer for, is “Well, what is the Democrats’ plan for (Iraq/the budget/Katrina/Medicare/Social Security/abortion)?†While I agree that as the minority party, it hasn’t mattered one whit what plans we’ve had, since nothing gets out of committee or fails on a party-line vote, that response just sounds like an excuse, and we have to do better than that.</p> <p>Someone needs to have an answer for this. Maybe it has to be framed as, “We believe that…and that is why we introduced SB or HR whatever. I think it’s important to connect what we believe and what we stand for with evidence of our attempts to implement these things. We have to show the GOP as standing in the way of things that would have been better for the country, in favor of things that benefited only certain segments of society. We have to, for example, connect our belief in health care and the environment with what we tried to do in those areas, and contrast what we believe with what the GOP said and then what it did.</p> <p>We have to show that our belief in the Constitution and long-standing principles of a democratic society are values that have allowed this country to survive countless crises and problems, highlight how we have attempted to protect these principles and how the GOP has acted to erode them in their quest for unitary power.</p> <p>We can’t allow ourselves to sink into the same trap the Bush administration has fallen into on Iraq. They keep talking about our strategy in the war, but it seems empty. Why? Because it was built on an ever-shifting foundation, and had to change whenever the current rationale for the war proved not credible. </p> <p>We have to identify our principles, provide concrete examples of how we fought for them, and build an election strategy that will focus on setting the country on a better track, and returning much-needed oversight to the executive branch. Where we disagree on specific issues, we have to come back to the foundation that allows us to disagree – the Constitution and the Bill of Rights – and imbues us with the responsibility to see that dissent is protected and all voices are heard. </p> <p>Principles without strategy is a recipe for failure on election day; strategy without principles turns us into Republicans.</p> I think you have to build strategy upon principle, and I see no shortage of principles that the Dems can run on. The strategy has to be one that will highlight our principles and at the same time contrast them with the reality of the at least the last five years.

The one thing they get us with every time, and which I wish we had a more prepared answer for, is “Well, what is the Democrats’ plan for (Iraq/the budget/Katrina/Medicare/Social Security/abortion)?†While I agree that as the minority party, it hasn’t mattered one whit what plans we’ve had, since nothing gets out of committee or fails on a party-line vote, that response just sounds like an excuse, and we have to do better than that.

Someone needs to have an answer for this. Maybe it has to be framed as, “We believe that…and that is why we introduced SB or HR whatever. I think it’s important to connect what we believe and what we stand for with evidence of our attempts to implement these things. We have to show the GOP as standing in the way of things that would have been better for the country, in favor of things that benefited only certain segments of society. We have to, for example, connect our belief in health care and the environment with what we tried to do in those areas, and contrast what we believe with what the GOP said and then what it did.

We have to show that our belief in the Constitution and long-standing principles of a democratic society are values that have allowed this country to survive countless crises and problems, highlight how we have attempted to protect these principles and how the GOP has acted to erode them in their quest for unitary power.

We can’t allow ourselves to sink into the same trap the Bush administration has fallen into on Iraq. They keep talking about our strategy in the war, but it seems empty. Why? Because it was built on an ever-shifting foundation, and had to change whenever the current rationale for the war proved not credible.

We have to identify our principles, provide concrete examples of how we fought for them, and build an election strategy that will focus on setting the country on a better track, and returning much-needed oversight to the executive branch. Where we disagree on specific issues, we have to come back to the foundation that allows us to disagree – the Constitution and the Bill of Rights – and imbues us with the responsibility to see that dissent is protected and all voices are heard.

Principles without strategy is a recipe for failure on election day; strategy without principles turns us into Republicans.

]]> By: Rayne http://firedoglake.com/2006/03/19/late-nite-fdl-incomprehensible-demoralization/#comment-54113 Rayne Mon, 20 Mar 2006 17:04:24 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/03/19/late-nite-fdl-incomprehensible-demoralization/#comment-54113 <p>Thanks, GrandmaJ. Damn but that pisses me off to hear Dems whine that a single item will make them vote for the opposition. Were the opposition party Hitler’s Nazis, would they vote for them just because Durbin wasn’t on fire supporting Feingold? It ain’t Durbin that’s the damned problem; it’s far too many so-called progressives who’ve thrown away their votes so easily, who’ve not invested in ensuring an entire system that is majority material. </p> <p>I can’t encourage folks enough to read Crashing the Gate for this reason alone.</p> Thanks, GrandmaJ. Damn but that pisses me off to hear Dems whine that a single item will make them vote for the opposition. Were the opposition party Hitler’s Nazis, would they vote for them just because Durbin wasn’t on fire supporting Feingold? It ain’t Durbin that’s the damned problem; it’s far too many so-called progressives who’ve thrown away their votes so easily, who’ve not invested in ensuring an entire system that is majority material.

I can’t encourage folks enough to read Crashing the Gate for this reason alone.

]]> By: Grandma Jo http://firedoglake.com/2006/03/19/late-nite-fdl-incomprehensible-demoralization/#comment-54073 Grandma Jo Mon, 20 Mar 2006 16:23:48 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/03/19/late-nite-fdl-incomprehensible-demoralization/#comment-54073 <p>Rayne, great comment. While it is good for us to support progressives when we can, to throw up our hands and give up… when we have no progressive to vote for is crazy. Just as the folks here at FDL do not always agree 100% with each other, we cannot expect our representatives to have 100% our stands. If you want someone you agree with 100%, then run for office! </p> <p>The Dems ar not perfect. I get irritated with Pelosi and the bunch, just as every one else does. But Geeze, try having Bond and Talent for you senators. Then you will know what yuck is. I still send them E-mails occasionally, just to let them know there are progressives left in Missouri. </p> <p>As was famously said recently (Rumsfield).. you go to war with the army you have. Well folks, this is a war. And we have to go to it with the politicians we have. Do we need to keep recruiting, adding more like Hacket to our army/? Of course! Does that mean that we sit out 2006 because we don’t have the army we want. I don’t think so. </p> <p>Let’s keep at it folks. Never give up, never. Without risk, failure is assured.</p> Rayne, great comment. While it is good for us to support progressives when we can, to throw up our hands and give up… when we have no progressive to vote for is crazy. Just as the folks here at FDL do not always agree 100% with each other, we cannot expect our representatives to have 100% our stands. If you want someone you agree with 100%, then run for office!

The Dems ar not perfect. I get irritated with Pelosi and the bunch, just as every one else does. But Geeze, try having Bond and Talent for you senators. Then you will know what yuck is. I still send them E-mails occasionally, just to let them know there are progressives left in Missouri.

As was famously said recently (Rumsfield).. you go to war with the army you have. Well folks, this is a war. And we have to go to it with the politicians we have. Do we need to keep recruiting, adding more like Hacket to our army/? Of course! Does that mean that we sit out 2006 because we don’t have the army we want. I don’t think so.

Let’s keep at it folks. Never give up, never. Without risk, failure is assured.

]]> By: Larry http://firedoglake.com/2006/03/19/late-nite-fdl-incomprehensible-demoralization/#comment-54057 Larry Mon, 20 Mar 2006 16:09:54 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/03/19/late-nite-fdl-incomprehensible-demoralization/#comment-54057 <p>What all this talk about “our leaders”?</p> <p>A leader would ALWAYS be a patriot first and a politician second.<br /> My soul aches…my heart has numbed… for it has become shockenly apparent that we truly have no leaders, at least none that give a damn about our constitution, the bill of rights or the rule of law.</p> <p>These truly are dangerous times. A leadership void exists.<br /> History has taught us that from voids such as this acts of desperation spring, and that is what this cabal in power is now hoping for.</p> What all this talk about “our leaders”?

A leader would ALWAYS be a patriot first and a politician second.
My soul aches…my heart has numbed… for it has become shockenly apparent that we truly have no leaders, at least none that give a damn about our constitution, the bill of rights or the rule of law.

These truly are dangerous times. A leadership void exists.
History has taught us that from voids such as this acts of desperation spring, and that is what this cabal in power is now hoping for.

]]> By: Matt http://firedoglake.com/2006/03/19/late-nite-fdl-incomprehensible-demoralization/#comment-54056 Matt Mon, 20 Mar 2006 16:09:42 +0000 http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/03/19/late-nite-fdl-incomprehensible-demoralization/#comment-54056 <p>I’m afraid that they don’t really need to steal <strong>every</strong> election. If they can only steal a few, key ones (and there’s ample evidence that they can) that could be enough, given how many districts are gerrymandered into ’safe’ seats. After what happened to the Ohio election reform ammendments, it seems all too reasonable to assume that if polls predict Democrat gains in November, and the GOP instead strengthens their hand, journalists will trip over one another in haste to invent explanations of how “Rove’s brilliant GOTV operations” or somesuch “defied the polls.” </p> <p>I’ll definitely vote; there’s nothing to lose there. But I’m not so confident in actually giving money to Democrats, as long as they do nothing about election integrity. Another stolen election feels too horrible to think about, I know. But it’s only going to keep getting worse the longer we put off confronting it. </p> <p>What will be more demoralizing in the long run: Talking about the serious problems with e-voting security? Or ignoring them and firing up the base with great expectations, only to have their hopes “inexplicably” dashed by a sudden election day shift of votes to the GOP?</p> I’m afraid that they don’t really need to steal every election. If they can only steal a few, key ones (and there’s ample evidence that they can) that could be enough, given how many districts are gerrymandered into ’safe’ seats. After what happened to the Ohio election reform ammendments, it seems all too reasonable to assume that if polls predict Democrat gains in November, and the GOP instead strengthens their hand, journalists will trip over one another in haste to invent explanations of how “Rove’s brilliant GOTV operations” or somesuch “defied the polls.”

I’ll definitely vote; there’s nothing to lose there. But I’m not so confident in actually giving money to Democrats, as long as they do nothing about election integrity. Another stolen election feels too horrible to think about, I know. But it’s only going to keep getting worse the longer we put off confronting it.

What will be more demoralizing in the long run: Talking about the serious problems with e-voting security? Or ignoring them and firing up the base with great expectations, only to have their hopes “inexplicably” dashed by a sudden election day shift of votes to the GOP?

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