God what pansies. It’s just like Rove says: he says “Boo” and they run and hide, just like NSA spying, just like the war and everything else.

Why?

Cuz they’re worried about their precious AIPAC $$$$.

Go Fitzgold!

When will thes fools develop a spine?

FITZ….FEINGOLD….WINNERS

http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..01857.html

Apparently, Howie Kurtz gets his talking points from the Free Republic. Nice.

“an issue that needed time to get the whole caucus to support.”

wtf? they’ve had three months to get together a concerted, organized effort – which they haven’t done. support for feingold’s call for censure ought to be a no brainer. all i can say is – WTF!?!

We should have as our objective to shame and humiliate every single Democractic senator who shrinks from their responsibility to govern. If they won’t do their jobs, to hell with them. Russ can beat them in the court of public opinion, with one hand tied behind his back, but only if we get his back.

I agree with the Senate staff: Feingold should have done a lot of background work before he introduced this resolution. Maybe he did and no one would support him.

That said, there is nothing that has recently come my way that I have been more excited about. Please, Democratic Senators! Give your weary footsoldiers like me who are already out canvassing for you a scrap to hold on to: Support the Feingold Resolution!

OK, my comments go into mederation and never come back out?

I try to block quote and the quote disappears?

I keep getting a page that says I exceeded (some combinations of letters) % ?

Can somebody tellme what I am doing wrong?

Evidently, a lot!

Dear Democratic Aide,
Here’s the thing. Even if this resolution did come up and bite every Senator on the nose, the proper response is a total nobrainer.

Support it. Why?

1. It doesn’t actually force you to do anything once you have acknowledged that Bush broke the law. Remember the law? The one Bush admitted to breaking and said he would continue to break?

2. 34%. Do I really have to spell out what that means?

3. Right now isn’t about winning and losing. November is when that happens. Right now is about showing that you are willing to fight. That’s what people want to see from the Democrats.

Feingold’s move may have been all about Feingold, but what is he saying? He’s telling the nation that he is willing to fight. Frankly, he’s been saying that in one way or another for years and guess what. People like it!

So stop appeasing, triangulating and accomodating.

Step up to the plate and fight!

Lead, follow or get out of the way!

Do you need any other catchy slogans to point you in the right direction? Stand together. When someone steps out and takes the lead, get his back.

Shows you what we are up against. We’re talking about bringing a dead party back to life. It’s going to be a long hard fight.

I’d like to show that “long-time senate aide” what scathing really is.

Russ didn’t put himself first yesterday, he put the country first. Why can’t they understand that? It’s not that difficult.

Perhaps if the dems in Washington would try doing the right thing for once, they might find that they’d no longer be in the minority.

As long as they keep being pussies, they haven’t got a prayer.

Democrats aren’t cowering with the President’s numbers so low. We’re applauding Feingold and we will applaud and support anyone who backs his measure.

Democratic Senators ARE cowering. And so are their staffs. But we must make them stop cowering, because we have the capability to engage their staffs on a basic line item in every one of their job descriptions: answering phones, reading emails, loading up the fax machine with another ream of paper, and gauging constituent response.

To the phones, the emails, the fax machines!

Has my faint hope on FDL Late Nite that Harry Reid had a plan faded in the light of DC sun and money? Please, Democratic Senators, be Democrats!

Has any Democratic Senator allied him/herself with Russ? Are they all too timid to engage? Or, is this a (hope springs eternal!) strategy?
================

A Bush aide accuses Dems of being inept? Did Feingold kill someone, torture someone, throw someone in a secret prison, break the law, run back and forth from Target with receipts and blame his evil twin? Did he start a war in the wrong country for no good reason and then not know what to do next? Bush aides must be like perverse munchkins, gleeful when they see the flying monkeys coming their way.

And why does underlining appear again in the previous thread so that you can’t click on anything, including the comment box without being flown to some other website?

If no Democrat or principled Republican (now that’s really stretching that adjective) will hold the lawbreaker accountable, then there is not one representative in Congress that believes in America. Our Constitution is being trampled all in the name of corporate money that keeps these spineless creatures in office, using our good votes to represent the corporations and lawbreakers. We couldn’t investigate enough for any Democrat, but for a Republican we will change the laws to protect them. Claude Allen is an example of their corruption and hypocrisy as they yell, I am a man of god.

from rawstory:

“Several aides said their offices were stressing “more investigations†as an alternative to censure” didn’t the senate intelligence committee just vote AGAINST hearings?

how the heck are they planning to get “more investigations”? what BS.

Senator Leahy’s office in Washington reports that Leahy “supported moving the motion to censure to the Judiciary Committee” and that he is “strongly urging Senator Specter to hold hearings”.

As i said yesterday, i agree with this assessment. feingold blindsided his party, got played badly by frist, ran out after introducing his proposal(perhaps for craven reasons like playing to the teevee cameras or just out of anger, either way it didn’t come off well at all), and then left his own party members to clean up his mess and left specter on the floor to spew his bullshit unabated. Then today, in an effort to get more dem support, he calls his cohorts cowards. niiice.

i have some respect for what he tried to do, but not for how he did it. it was ham-handed, amaturish and politically stupid and doesn’t bode well for his presidential run, unless you count the $ he might have pulled in from people who think he’s at least ‘fighting’.

he pulled a stunt that couldn’t have been done better if designed by rove.

If they pulled their heads out of their asses Karl would call them extreme.

watou:

I agree with your objective, but not your language.

We are the Democrats. So is Russ. It’s the Washington insiders who are afraid.

Let’s highlight (our) democratic strength without pissing on the word “democrat,” in the service of Rove’s agenda.

i think i left italics on….. if so, begone!

many appologies…

test.

Senators Murray and Cantwell of Washington State. Still no comment as of 10 am PST. Especially for Cantwell, the loyalists are losing faith.

Below is what I just posted over at Vichy Democrats and Im going to keep saying it because I really think Feingold’s move is a winner for ALL Democrats. Here’s why:

If the Dem leaders would just get their butts on message and make this about separation of powers and not national security, we’d have an unqualified winner. This is about MESSAGE DISCIPLINE.

If it’s about national security, then Rove’s probably right – we lose. But if it’s about the separation of powers, we attract a substantial number of traditionalists and centrists who are very concerned about civil liberties – such as Bob Barr, Bruce Fein, and even media figures like Jonathan Turley. The overwhelming majority of the legal community and constitutional scholars has condemned the program. Are we just going to ignore that?

The argument that “centrists” will be alienated only holds validity if the Dems fail to use message discipline. What have all these discussions about “framing” been about? Not wasted energy I would hope.

It is simply not about national security for the simple reason that the warrantless domestic spying program is both illegal and UNNECESSARY. The case is a full-on winner if only we make it.

That is precisely the reason Republicans have been worried about this. Their best hope is that the DLC-crowd puts the kibosch on it for them.

Ok I got your italics off.

“Feingold Blames Stalled Censure Motion on ‘Cowering’ Democrats”
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,187855,00.html
First corporate media outlet to print Feingold’s comments, that I can find, is Faux.

Ok, I’ve emailed and called my senators and signed MoveOn’s petition. How do we get back at these nameless senate staffers? Someone should contact the author of the piece and then leak the names here so we can (figuratively) break their knee caps.

I would like to reemphasize this point, because it’s important.

We are the democrats. Democrats fight. Democrats are strong. Russ is a democrat.

Washington insiders are cowering to the president. Some of them will still stand up and be counted as democrats.

But if we rub feces all over the word democrat, we are sabotaging our own progressive efforts.

I say this as one who, I think, is fully credible in making my attacks on vichy surrender monkeys who should be fighting for our side.

Mostly posting this to stop the italics madness.

However, yes, I agree that the Democratic senator’s aide who spoke about this has it backward – Feingold is the one risking ridicule, particularly since he must have known that the display of spinelessness on the part of his Democratic colleagues was to be expected.

i can’t seem to turn the italics off…! so very sorry! this is my last try…

Democratic Senate aide quoted in Rawstory:

“The majority of the American people agree with what the president’s doing. A lot of people outside the beltway see this as a tool that’s keeping Americans safe.”

Wow. This kind of idiocy is why “A Lot of People Outside the Beltway” wouldn’t mind seeing everything inside the beltway fed into a giant rock crusher.

I think the Repugs and the Dem’s who are dissing Feingold’s move are insane.

1. The Repugs – take the pressure off Chimpy? Someone needs to explain that to me. Just b/c you once turned a sows ear into a short-lived silk purse (Rover and the creation of Chimpy) and stole an election doesn’t mean you are Merlin making silk purposes out of the shit you find yourself drowning in.

2. The Dem’s. Since it is giong to the Judiciary committee and Fraust didn’t get his immediate vote – what is there to complain about.

To paraphrase Tommy Hagen – Feingold played this one perfectly.

All the Dem’s had to do was support it and sit on the sidelines and let it go to committee. Should they have spoken up in support, yeah, but NOT ONE OF THEM WAS PUT IN A BIND.

I know the public is no longer under the spell, sooner or later the corporate media and the Dem’s will catch up. You can’t stop the wave.

Hey Dems!

Wake the F### UP! There are literally hundreds of thousands of us who will proudly march behind you. You have the power to take this unholy administration on..to challenge them….we’re with you.

Dammit fight with us!

Dammit fight FOR US!

Instead of whining about Feingold, they should attack Cheney’s and McClellan’s and other GOPer’s misrepresentations, untruths, and smears regarding the resolution. IMO. Maybe they should consider discussing substance once in awhile rather than shadowboxing with the phantoms of their own fear of GOP supremacy kismet.

I don’t think Feingold cares about the politics.

If he cared about being electable he wouldn’t have been on the losing end of a 99-1 vote on the Patriot Act.

If he cared about sucking up to the left wing he wouldn’t have voted for John Ashcroft as AG.

If he cared about making Democrats happy he wouldn’t have been the sole Dem to join Republicans in voting against the motion to dismiss Clinton’s impeachment without a trial.

Is it good politics to bring this up now? In a perfect world, yes. In a world where the Dems will hang him out to dry, probably not. I don’t think he cares. He feels you can’t just let presidential lawbreaking pass by and do nothing. That’s his principle.

Is it good politics to call the Dems out and accuse them of cowering? Well, what else is he supposed to do? Politely lobby them behind the scenes, while the meme that Democrats are afraid to take a stand grows and grows? I don’t see what else he could do at this point. His statement also has the advantage of being completely true.

If the Dems hang Feingold out to dry on this there will be a huge, huge revolt. With all the calls coming into their offices this week, I really don’t get how they can fail to understand that.

The dems really are a bunch of panty wastes. What the hell are they thinking not following Feingold?

Feingold is my Senator and I emailed DNC Chair Howard Dean. I let Governor Dean know that I consider Senator Feingold to “the leader” of the Democratic Party in Washington as of today.

The ‘Democratic aides’ shoveling dirt on Feingold are the same Beltway abettors who will have the most pints of blood to lose when the leeches are finally applied to the Corpus Politicus Americanus…Their ideology is spelled with a $.

From an intimate table au trois at Signatures to scraping together lint-covered pocket change for a Happy Meal in one election cycle…Time to lower the broom.

Maybe it is all about Feingold. So much the better: Russ Feingold for president in 2008!

Don’t give up, folks. If you have a blog, post about this and tell people to call their representatives, regardless of which party their representatives are from. Call the Republicans too. They need to hear it more than the Democrats. Tell them all that you support Feingold’s resolution to censure Bush.

I’m getting closer and closer to supporting Feingold in ‘08. I am staying on the fence to stay focused on the mid-terms, but he is making it hard not to just come out for him and push him to run.

Here’s why the Dems are “cowering” in addition to all the other reasons that have already been mentioned.
Feingold said: “No one questions whether the government should wiretap suspected terrorists. Of course we should, and we can under current law.â€
The corporate media is “triangulating.†They aren’t in some cases printing the most viciously Orwellian of DeadEye’s soundbytes, but they are focussing on the lack of Democratic support. This effectively castrates what Feingold actually said: “â€No one questions whether the government should wiretap suspected terrorists. Of course we should, and we can under current law.â€

Feingold has earned my vote and he will receive my dollars, as humble as they are.

I got really excited about taking some action, those who would deny this action will not receive my vote or my dollars.

It’s simple. Fight or get out of the way.

A lot of the comments problems seem to be coming from unclosed tags.

The blue host thread has an unclosed tag on Dookie’s url.

On topic, I’ve been watching Russ Feingold ever since he got into the Senate. I believe he’s the real deal — honest, responsible, and ethical. I called Tom Harkin’s office this afternoon, but the staffer on the phone didn’t know “personally” if he would support the censure resolution or not.

Why should he have done it any other way?

Precious few stood with him on the Unpatriot Act and he was the lone wolf to vote nay on it from the gitgo. He voted against the war. He is right and the party ought to vote in lockstep with him.
And rethugs should think about joining him too, dammit.

If Feingold gets this thing through, he has my vote for 2008. I will work to defeat any Democrat who fights him.

I have now called Senator Harkin’s D.C. office twice in the last two days. The staff is great and receptive but…I am disappointed since Harkin is still not taking a stand for censure. He is still “thinking” about it.

To stop italics, I recommend that we try putting this string at the start of every post:

</I></B>

It’s what this blogging software should be doing.

Now, back to the matter at hand. I think the Democratic senators who are saying we need more investigation prior to a censure have decided to hide by sticking their heads up their asses. The whole reason this is a censure rather than a resolution calling for impeachment (the House has to vote for impeachment, the Senate can’t do more than recommend) is that there has been no cooperation with the investigations that are going on now.

Sad to have to state the obvious, isn’t it?

No wonder I got such a cool response when i called Murray and Cantweels’ offices. Oh I also was very nice when I told them they needed to work with those of us in the blogsoshere, because we are the ones who vote for them and that we are not all slathering whackos out there howling at the moon. i pointed out that we would and could raise money, get out the vote or we could be their worst nightmare!

Yo Dems…

You have an OBLIGATION to PROTECT and DEFEND OUR CONSTITUTION!!! Do you fricking jobs!

Peace.

Wow! some raw nerves sticking out! I love what Feingold did and the way he did it. He’s got the left and the right jumping out of their skins today. Shake ‘m up, FINALLY1

If Russ had informed them in advance they would have cut him off and sandbagged him. He knew this. So he went on his own and is pushing the matter to force their hands. Good for him.

The establishment insiders (note I did not say democrats – they are not democrats today; we are) are still relying on the consultants whose playbook is Clinton, ‘92. Triangulation. Third way. And Hillary has those people in full employment mode, and she can raise a fuckload of money for you if she lifts her pinkie.

That aside, we are the real democrats today, and so is Russ. Let’s not honor the faint-hearted with a word that belongs to fighters and patriots.

he pulled a stunt that couldn’t have been done better if designed by rove.

Umm, jdw, in case you hadn’t noticed, Rove has done pretty well by his boys.

This wasn’t planting rumors about McCain’s daughter, or tying up phone banks, or anything underhanded or dirty. Feingold put his resolution where his mouth is. With Bush under 40%, how is this even a controversial move?

No wonder I got such a cool response when i called Murray and Cantweels’ offices.

Oh I also was very nice when I told them they needed to work with those of us in the blogsoshere, because we are the ones who vote for them and that we are not all slathering whackos out there howling at the moon. I pointed out that we would and could raise money, get out the vote or we could be their worst nightmare!

jdw wrote:

“amaturish and politically stupid and doesn’t bode well for his presidential run, unless you count the $ he might have pulled in from people who think he’s at least ‘fighting’.”

You get to the point at the end. Censure is about Feingold trying to get in good with the base of the Dem party and position himself for the Presdential nomination. Support, or non-support, of censure can be used for both fund raising and as a talking point when he runs against some of these losers who are scared of their own shadow when it comes to taking on a President who is at 34% approval. He wants the vote of people who actually believe there exists ‘objective truth’ beyond Dick Morris polling and Frank Luntz focus groups.

His move is shrewd, politically for his own positioning and in that it’s the right thing to do (attack a weakened, incompetent president).

I just realized that the Dems have Battered Wives Syndrome….

Maybe if we were just a little less “partisen” they would be nicer to us.

A commentor over at TCM cafe kept saying that the Dems need to focus on social inequality and other Domestic issues because so many poor people are suffering.

WHERE THE HELL HAVE YOU BEEN FOR THE LAST FIVE YEARS- THE DEMS ARE TOTALLY SHUT OUT OF ANY POLICY DECISIONS. WHY THE HELL DO PEOPLE NOT UNDERSTAND THIS.

I am so mad today I have tears in my eyes when I think about it. I feel totally betrayed by my party. I don’t care that they don’t like Feingold. Get on board people.

Gee, I wonder why Feingold kept it a secret? Maybe because, if he didn’t, the Democrats would have tabled the issue for freaking ever. I seriously think this sorry lot, with this sorry leadership, could regain the majority in the house/senate and STILL cave into Bush’s every demand. They’re a bunch of lowlifes and over the next few years, we need to replace them with more Feingolds.

Feingold is going to make a very good President soon.

The Government in all cases works for the People. The People own
the Country. The Country is the result of Revolution and Renewal of
Philosophy. The Ideas of concern are the result of trial and error in the World. Where have the Ideas come from? Who profits? Is it legal? Why do the Democrats fail to defend the People from the obivous crimes of the present adminstration? These questions are by far the chance to expose the criminal destruction of the Peoples Rights. The Elected have the Duty to respond to the Needs of the People as their protectors from the erosion of the Constitutional
Protections. Its time for Court Challenges in the Name of the People.

I guess Norquist got his wish and the Democrats are now “domesticated.”

Now if they can just get Feingold to stop peeing on the rug.

(1) Feingold is right, censure is a good strategic approach to getting a dialogue about how this President is a law breaker.

(2) How do we know Feingold did this without discussing it with the Dems? I’m betting he did–I’m betting these cowering Dems and their staffers have made up this bullshit about being blindsighted.

this is why I will never give dime one to the democratic party. not a cent until they get out of the corner, throw away their security blankets, grow a spine, grow up, grow a pair and fucking stand up for this country. they are enablers of the worst sort. Bush is the driving force of destroying this country and they are greasing the rails. they make me sick.

when they lose this year and the presidency again in 2008 theyll cry again and come up with a ralph nader equivalent as their excuse. absolutely pathetic.

One aide said that some senators felt the move went “too far.”

It was only a censure resolution. What did they think Feingold should do? Submit a resolution to have all the Senators simultaneously give Bush a dirty look?

Called Wyden’s office. He has not stated his position yet but I had to wait a long time so I think he is getting a lot of calls.

Right now we all have one Senator who will take the initiative in standing up to Bush and his name is Feingold. I consider him my honorary Senator even though I live in Oregon and not Wisconsin.

Triangulation? Sounds like Rummy and “Asymetric Warfare.” Sounds cool, but what the fuck?

As I will continue to point out – Regardless of what the Corporate Media is saying, it really isn’t doing much for Chimpy, and in fact whatever message is being taken by the people, it is one that holds Chimpy and his admin in disdain. So what exactly is the “triangulation” accomplishing? I will agree it is annoying, but the idea that the Corporate Media is somehow in control of the message (whatever that message is) and thus in control of the Repugs is not borne out by the facts. LOOK AT THE NUMBERS.

And, as far as I know, “asymetric warfare” is guerrilla warfare, which has been around a long time, but to Rhummy’s credit he used it to destroy our military. Who knew words can really kill.

Still testing and trying to figure out how this works. But I liked that quote.

Let’s see if it shows up

# 44 ate my quote, but put my text in the blockquote box. ARRRGHHH

I like the positions Russ takes.

I think that Clusterfuck needs to be held accountable in the NSA matter.

I DON’T think that the proposed censure accomplishes anything

I wonder why Feingold decided to blindside his own party on this one.

It’s possible that Feingold is NOT a team player.

I guess I’ll wait and see.

Is it a conspiracy? Rawstory has changed its format too.

Feingold is the only one who is leading right now, and Dems will follow an obviously sincere and competent leader who doesn’t talk out of both sides of his mouth.

It is, simply, the right thing to do. I think this goes deeper. I may be reading something into this that is not so but it seems to me that Feingold, being the brave man willing to do the right thing, is a threat to any Democrat Senator seeking to run for president–ie Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden and god knows what Lieberman’s aspirations. He is a THREAT to his own party and they want to smear him and will not support him. Meanwhile, they are silent on almost every other issue—he is going to be labeled a “maveric” by the DLC wonder boys.

We need to get back to the arcane notion that the “right thing to do” is the right thing to do.

Morality is absent in almost every congressperson these days.

My two cents.

HURRAY for SEN.FEINGOLD!! finally a democrat who’s not afraid to address the illegality of bushco. again i say THANK YOU SEN FEINGOLD!!!Now on to the White House in 2008, Senator or should i say, Mr.President!!

Triangulation is used for many purposes, including surveying, navigation, metrology, astrometry, binocular vision and gun direction of weapons.
Many of these surveying problems involve the solution of large meshes of triangles, with hundreds or even thousands of observations. Complex triangulation problems involving real-world observations with errors require the solution of large systems of simultaneous equations to generate solutions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangulation

When will the Beltway Dems put national security ahead of party insecurity?

angie says: Why should he have done it any other way?

Why, indeed? On a matter like this, at this point, it should have taken maybe five minutes to parse the meaning of this one. In the end, you’re either for a Congress that is equal to the President, or you’re willing to be Caligula’s horse.

This is another Murtha moment for Democrats to stand behind someone who has had the guts to stand up and take a position. Feingold has given them cover. He is the one who will take the principal heat. They only have to agree.

As for playing into Frist’s hands, Frist yet again showed himself incapable of controling events. I do not know how giving this man the opportunity to act the ineffective loud mouthed bully has a downside. Perhaps the “long time Senate aide” could have explained that one or why the Democrats all seem to react or not react to any circumstance as if they were all on Valium or Xanax.

Let’s see who has the nads to step up. rw – IMO it does a great deal. I want to see who the real weenies are RIGHT NOW. My plans are to dump a whole bunch of spineless dems. Stand up now or get out.

Ohhh, I get it now. The Senate Democratics Caucus is composed of tempermental Divas that must be cajoled, wooed and seduced into supporting the resolution. No, no, we must not expect them to support the resolution because it is the right thing to do both morally and politically. These things take time. One doesn’t finesse a Diva in a day.

John Casper – Perhaps not surprisingly, I know what triangulation is, although thanks for the reference.

And, as I am sure you know, my point was how you are using it with respect to the Corporate Media and Feingold and censure. I just don’t get it. Sometimes we universes can be slow though, we are not always inflationary.

“went ‘too far’” ?!

“more investigations??”

like folks say, this is a good issue for Democrats. If they fumble this, they deserve minority status. Not just that, but the same “kicked like a mangy dog” minority they have wallowed in for the past five years.

WE WANT A FIGHT.

Bush is weak and no one believes him anymore. His adminstration officials are being indicted and arrested. The Republican officials are also being indicted and arrested.

They are corrupt and place themselves above our laws. What’s worse, Bush openly lied last year when he said something like “when ya wahrtap, ya gotta git a warrint!”

Nothing to be surprised about here. This is what Democrats do. They did it on the Alito filibuster, they did it on bankruptcy “reform,” they did it on the IWR, they did it on the Patriot Act (and its reauthorization). They’ve done it over, and over, and over again, and they’ll keep doing it.

At a certain point, progressives who support these losers have to take responsibility for their actions. Why does the Democratic Party deserve the allegiance of progressives when it won’t even stand up to violations of the law and threats to our very system of constitutional government?

There’s no reason to think that they’ll change their behavior, especially so long as they know they have your support regardless of their actions. It’s long past time to build a plausible exit strategy from the Democratic Party for progressives.

Pachacutec: I agree with your objective, but not your language.

I understand that language is important, and I don’t want to sully our own label. I just want to shine light on those who have appropriated “Democrat” and stuck a silent “Vichy” on the front.

Kerry said “absolutely” in response to the question of whether he would support Feingold’s censure. Has he in fact come out and done so?

I just called Senator Bayh’s office (again) because I heard disturbing news that he was against Feingold’s censure motion. The aide indicated that Bayh hadn’t taken a position on it at this time and is in favor of “more investigation”. He also indicated that Bayh wants to change the law to make this sort of program legal.

I responded by saying asking that “Bayh supports changing the law to fit whatever the President does rather than making the President obey the law as it is?” The staffer stumbled and then simply said, “I didn’t say that”. I then asked why it was OK for so many Democrats to vote for censuring Clinton for having sex but it is not OK to censure Bush for violating the Constitution and Bill of Rights? He then took my name, address, etc, and we said our goodbyes.

F*cking cowards. They all want to change to law to fit whatever the Sun King does rather than make Bush obey the law and be held accountable for ALL violations of it as it stands.

Goddamn but those italics were driving me nuts.

Arg. Italics hurt brain.

So why is everything again in italics?

I never liked italics – plus it owes me money.

It is word, as if someone putting in the code for italics effects everything down the thread.

To fucking bloody hell with the Democrats!

What we need is a second party.

i know it sucks to criticise our side for being “weak”, esp. when it play into the GOP’s soundbites, but how else can you call it? the democratic members should be shown that there is price to be paid to be so gutless.

i’m really sick of the democratic “leadership”… they’re like a soldier hiding in the trench hoping that somehow the enemy will disappear so they could get out and claim a medal for their “bravery”, but in the meantime scream at the ones on their side who shoot back, in case it might draw some fire their way…

“goddamn it, stop drawing attention to us, they skaweeeee”

OT – Yahoo went back their original home page. What we’re they thinking?? :D

Let’s see if that fixes things.

My DD needs our help: http://www.mydd.com

Cue Republican Whining and Posturing on Feingold
by Matt Stoller, Tue Mar 14, 2006 at 03:56:06 PM EST

“According to Progress Now, Senator Wayne ‘Whiny’ Allard, Republican of Colorado, accused Feingold of ’siding with terrorists’ by introducing his censure resolution. They have a petition up demanding Allard apologize. Frankly, Senator Whiny Allard should be expelled from the Senate for accusing a colleague of treason.

Senator Feingold, you are a man of integrity and a real Democrat. I’m proud of your strength and your leadership.

Senator Allard, your weak, cowardly nature means that you don’t know what it means to fight the fear that terrorists seek to spread. You and conservatives like you enable terrorists with your weakness and posturing. May I recommend Depends brand undergarments, in case you soil yourself in the Senate as you cower in the corner?”

Anonymous staffer,
” he would’ve split the caucus on an issue that needed time to get the whole caucus to support.”

Since when has the Democratic Party had a unified caucus! What a putz!

I had done a kind of long rodent-thread post earlier today at the old site that has not been imported over, but I am with EPU and Pach on this.

jdw-Senators typically leave the floor after their speech; I don’t know why you dwell on that so much. It’s just not a biggie.

Feingold has done something that none of the other Dems have – given people something to support instead of just something to be against.

He’s FORCED people like Lieberman to go ahead and mouth the words on illegality, even though they then quickly retreat to a “but we need to make it right” stance.

He has the points mounted and they are on their way to being matted, framed and getting their own Exhibit light in committee. BC now you have to say: If the PResident wasn’t breaking the law – why are you writing a new law? If you think what was done is ok – then leave it. Let the court’s handle it. YOU BETCHA folks like Lindsay Graham don’t want to have to address whether or not the program is Constitutional.

AND BTW – the RNC could NOT have picked a worse theme, IMO, that “the President is not the enemy” I notice that they may have figured that out and are backpaddling on it a bit.

As per my old, probably now gone, post – repeating President and enemy often enough together – and you get the same result they tried for deliberately earlier with repeating Iraq and 9/11. *G*G*G*

When the soundbite comes up, even here, it gets a “says who” or “yeah right” response more than a “oh, those evil dems”

Two Scooby treats for Feingold!

Invasion of the italics again.

Sigh.

Republicans are weak.

Democrats are strong. We are democrats, and so is Russ.

The Washington insiders not supporting Russ are not democrats, at least, not today.

I’m w ith David Ehrenstein. In fact, if the Democrats keep it up, maybe we will see a viable presidential candidate coming out of a third party.

Maybe Gore is listening….

watou says:

I agree. People who know me around herre know I’m not soft on the sellouts. I have front page meterial here this past week slamming weak sisters like Rockefeller.

David Ehrenstein:

Our only chance to advance a progressive agenda is to inflitrat and take over the agenda of the democratic party. We’re doing it.

dachoste:

Agreed, but let’s not inadvertently do Rove’s talking points for him. Reserve use of the word democrat for oursleves and those like us when we/they fight.

(2) How do we know Feingold did this without discussing it with the Dems? I’m betting he did–I’m betting these cowering Dems and their staffers have made up this bullshit about being blindsighted.

true, and that way the others can slowly come around as the facts are argued (and explained to the public) and not appear hasty or hot-headed (which seem to be themes in the GOP/Rove bag of tricks and slurs recently – re: Hilary or even Dean and McCain in the last election cycle)

Ha! Got busy signals at Feinstein’s (She is a member of the Senate Judiciary Committee) D.C. AND local SF offices!

Good – hope her staff is getting an earful…yesterday I got a “No comment yet” because she’s also on that sham of a committee that was to “Further Investigate” the wiretapping.

If anyone else wants to keep bugging her like I will:

Phone: (202) 224-3841
Fax: (202) 228-3954
TTY/TDD: (202) 224-2501

SAN FRANCISCO
Jim Molinari, State Director
One Post Street, Suite 2450
San Francisco, CA 94104
415/393-0707
TTY/TDD: 415/249-4785

LOS ANGELES
Guillermo Gonzalez, Deputy State Director
11111 Santa Monica Boulevard, Suite 915
Los Angeles, CA 90025
310/914-7300

SAN DIEGO
James Peterson, Regional Director
750 “B” Street, Suite 1030
San Diego, CA 92101
619/231-9712

FRESNO
Shelly Abajian
2500 Tulare Street, Suite 4-290
Fresno, CA 93721
559/485-7430

Dial away!

Just got off the phone after about 15 minutes with a staffer in Kennedy’s office (in Boston.) Mon dieu. Very frustrating. And this is Kennedy.

Hit absolutely the wall. Kennedy won’t support or oppose, wants a Congressional investigation. Yes, sure, facts are not in dispute, but the Senator will not take a position on the censure resolution until the investigation is complete. Yes, sure, law not really in dispute. But the Senator will not take a position on the censure resolution until the investigation is complete. Yes, sure, FBI has dropped all pretenses in monitoring political groups within the US. But the Senator is not going to issue a statement in support. Yes, it makes it difficult for people who are outspoken to stand alone. Yes it makes the party look fractured on an important issue. But the Senator is not going to issue a statement until investigations are complete. No, of course we understand the investigations are going to be run by Republican Senators. But the Senator is not going to issue a statement until investigations are complete.

Sadly, after carefully stressing the words “the Senator“, the staffer kept saying, “I think you can tell where I stand.” And I could. What a mess.

only way this will work out well for the Republicans is if the Democrats fumble the opening Feingold has given them.

Yeah, maybe he should have coordinated better with them. But maybe he realized that would have given them time to run for cover. Anyway, it was a bold move on Russ’ part. You can’t win without taking some chances.

The Dems need a leader. Russ is leading. If the rest of the Dems don’t like it, fuck ‘em. It’s not like they haven’t had 5 fucking years to step out and take on a leadership role.

Oh, I forgot. They think cowering in a hole with their tails between there legs is leadership.

(Note: the above rant at Democrats most certainly is NOT directed at ALL of them)

Pach – Fair point. But here’s the thing, and I am not saying I am immune to this at other times. But I think at times we do miss the forest for the trees.

It is DDAY +1 and here we are talking about failure (or debating it, or whatever). It is too soon to judge the effect of the censure – other than knowing that it does not play into Repug hands, no matter how much Rover has his minions say that.

It is a first shot, and give it time to build. Bravery is a scarce commodity in politics, so if the rest of the Dem’s take time to come around, so be it. But, most likely they will.

There are all the other misdeeds/failures/scandals surrounding the Preznit and his ilk. With seemingly new ones, like Allen, let alone the not going to go away Plame and Abramoff issues.

Every single instance of exposing Chimpy et al is good for the Dem’s in the long run.

So, give this some time to grow, develop, and I think we will all be saying “what took you so long,” as painful as that might be, rather than “where are you?”

It is outrageous that neither Boxer nor Feinstein has come out in support of Feingold!!!

More investigations? Did I miss something? Has there been an investigation? All I remember is Gonzales being invited to lie before Congress. Does that count?

And what precisely would more investigations mean seeing as they would be conducted by Republican controlled committees?

Perhaps the Democrats do need more time. I think by 2009 (2010 by the latest) they will be just about ready to take old Bushie on.

Powerful Dems are afraid of Feingold upstaging them, especially when they’re trying to grasp the gold ring of the Presidential nomination in 08. They and their pals are deliberately snubbing him and leaving him to twist in the wind not because they don’t agree with his methods and reasoning, but because they want to keep him, personally, down. This kind of insider duplicity is what plays directly into Rove’s sticky hands.

http://www.cookpolitical.com/

Link to Charlie Cook’s latest- praising Dean and banging Pelosi and Reid..

I agree with Charlie on this one- by the way- sounds like Charlie just let a cat out of the bag- sounds like he’s a dem!

Arrggh! the front half of my post seems to have been chopped off. I’ll wait till it goes through “moderation” before I try posting again.

By the way, don’t you know that “moderation” in the defense of liberty is no virtue?

Italics are in Bush’s Coalition of the Bought

A little help here please….my comment above is tagged “your comment is awaiting moderation”.

Can it be seen by any of you?

i think the cowering one need to remember- bush got 51%… a bare majority. THAT IS NOT A MANDATE. this is ignoring the fact that he stole the original election.

WHY ARE THEY SO SCARED? they had barely half the country, plus 1%. and that was when everything was golden for the rovers… after untold scandals, incompetencies, flameouts, fuckups………

i think we have to put ole yeller down. don’t like to do it… but

Now we know who in Congress has unlawfully joined the President is his unlawful rebellion against the Constitution.

Information is a wonderful thing.

This may be the catalyst that splits the Dems in 2 categories. The first being old school Dems, the second being the netroots. And I say out with the old and in with the new.

Just finally got through to Senators Clinton’s and Schumer’s offices. Asked what their position was on the Feingold censure resolution. Was told they didn’t have an opinion yet. Almost screeched: “What, they don’t HAVE an opinion?!” Staff member corrected to say that they hadn’t made it public yet, but were interested in surveying people and would I care to give my opinion?” Oh, would I?! I think the words “leader/leadership” and “courage” and “patriot” came in there, along with “would be terribly disappointed if he/she didn’t support it” and “all my friends and colleagues support it” and “gee, I hope the senator doesn’t think it’s okay for the president to break the law!?” Oh, and did mention the fact that I’ve worked for the Democratic Party and contributed to it financially but if the Democrats don’t start speaking up and taking a stand, instead of quivering and being afraid to say what everyone knows to be true, then they’re not going to continue to receive my support.

They both thanked me warmly, but gave no indication of what the senator’s position might be, when it might be made public, or how the calls were tending.

Buy the domain now
Feingold/Murtha 08

Progress Now has a petition, calling on Senator Allard to apologize to Senator Finegold.

http://www.ProgressNowAction.org/AllardApologize

To Senator Wayne Allard:

Yesterday, in an interview for Fox News Radio, you accused Senator Russ Feingold (D-WI) of “[siding] with terrorists” by introducing a resolution to censure George Bush.

Senator Feingold’s censure resolution seeks to hold the President accountable for authorizing a domestic spying program that clearly violates federal law and for misleading the country about its existence and its legality.

To question Senator Feingold’s patriotism and suggest that he is “siding with terrorists” by seeking to hold President Bush accountable for violating federal law is despicable. And we call on you to apologize publicly.

Fill out the form below to make your voice heard:

When the punditry says “dems in dissaray”- they’ve finally got something right..

In a sane system- dems would agree on at least the key steps in the strategy- fight it out behind closed doors- and then present a united front on at least those key strategic issues in public..

We are now seeing “every woman/man for themselves” behavior- not unusual in an election year- and particularly for a party that’s out of power- but depressing nonetheless.

The key issue this year is “oversight”.

Dems need to ask the voters to give them oversight responsibility–they are not showing us that they know what to do with it if they get it.

Fuck those vichy Dems

Boxer’s aide just told me that the senator supports the motion to censure Bush.

I called Finger-in-the-wind Bingaman again this morning. He’s made up his mind about the censure resolution, and he wants further investigation. He’s cosponsoring Senate Resolution something-or-another to investigate BushCo further.

I told his staffer the following:
(1) I am very dismayed about this. There is no need for further investigation when Bush has said publically that he authorized warrantless NSA listening.
(2) This is the second time this year that the Senator has been on the wrong side of an important vote. Voting for cloture on Alito was, “in my opinion, a vote to confirm Alito.”
(3) I will not be supporting Bingaman in the Democrat primary.
(4) I will carefully evaluate who to support in the general election.

I was assured that Senator Bingaman would receive my comments …

yeah, right.

BC

The majority of the American people agree with what the president’s doing.

And the approval rating is in the mid-30s? Has ‘majority’ been redefined when nobody was looking? Jeebus, these people are spineless marrons! I’m starting to feel like it should be ‘up against the wall’ for the lot of them. (I’m seriously wondering if I should even vote for Boxer; DiFi has already lost it …)

Here’s the conclusion of Cook’s column:

The Democratic congressional leaders’ shortsighted, penny-wise/pound-foolish complaints show why their party has become bicoastal. Congressional Democrats have trouble winning in many interior states, in part because leaders like Reid and Pelosi have failed to appreciate the importance of maintaining a strong national party apparatus. The Democrats’ inability to consistently win elections in places where gun shops outnumber Starbucks is a big reason the party controls neither the House nor the Senate.

Right now, one of the biggest obstacles to Democrats’ taking the House back is their failure to recruit strong candidates in many Republican-held districts that ought to be in play. Party building means lining up a solid team — organizing and winning lower-level offices that give the party a talented bench from which to draw for higher contests.

Dean’s view — that Pelosi, Reid, and their party committees have their jobs and he has his — is the one that he ought to stick to. He should also resist pressure from interest groups, such as the Congressional Black Caucus, whose members raise very little money for the DCCC even though a Democratic takeover of the House would elevate many black lawmakers to chairmanships.

Howard, stick to your guns.

(Charlie Cook)

Glorfindel – (Which one by the way, the one from the Silmarilion or the one from TLOR?) Anyway, I digress.

The political world is going to be vastly different in 2008 then it is today. If the Corporate Media and party lifers fear the blogosphere (either as a medium or netroots) today, think about how it will have grown in 2 years. And that is only one example. People will have had two more years of the disasterous repug leadership.

In business it is usually not smart to recreate the wheel, but politics is much more fluid. And anyone trying to copy from Rover’s 2004 (or 2001) playbook are most likely going to find that those tricks/plays/plans don’t work anymore.

No one knows what the successful playbook will entail for political success, but I don’t think it will be the Rover playbook, which again, if you look at Chimpy and Repug numbers, is really not working so well (and I don’t think can be fixed).

The point is that someone is going to come along with a new paradigm (I figured I would through that in with “triangulation” and “asymetric warfare”).

Feingold is fighting with new weapons. Other dems (as well as other repugs) will either adapt or die.

OT – Norquist group faces challenge for Abramoff ties

WASHINGTON (Reuters) – An ethics watchdog asked the U.S. Internal Revenue Service on Tuesday to revoke the tax-exempt status of a conservative group for helping disgraced lobbyist Jack Abramoff secretly fund an anti-casino campaign that benefited his clients

Americans for Tax Reform also violated its nonprofit status by taking a cut of the money it handled, said Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington, or CREW.

“This thing that they did where they basically took in money from tribes, laundered it and skimmed some off the top had nothing to do with their purpose” as an anti-tax organization, CREW executive director Melanie Sloan said.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/200…..amoff_dc_1

:D

susan — Allard challenges Feingold?

Senator Allard’s response is merely drawing attention to (1) Feingold’s motion, which Feingold can explain as being about whether the president is above the law [thanks for the opportunity to explain that]and (2)the stupidity of Wayne Allard [thanks for reminding us].

This stunt keeps it in the news headlines another day, and it should be seen as another moment similar to the “mean Jean” from Pennsylvania, who thought she could safely call Murtha a “coward.”

Now, if going after Murtha for challenging the President on his handling of the war gets mean Jean ridiculed, what do you think will happen to Allard for challenging the partiotism of Feingold, for challenging an even weaker President (34-36%) on his ignoring the laws on surveillance?

I suspect Feingold will welcome the attention, and, moreover, attacking his patriotism will force the Dems to defend Feingold.

Rove is slipping.

Watertiger rocks, on topic
http://www.derenegade.blogspot.com/

paracutec

i agree with you on that one.. i guess it’s because i’m dragged kicking and screaming into the “democrat” label, because that’s the reality of what it takes to fight the rovers, but still, it gets me…. but i hear you… feingold and murtha are DEMOCRATS.

You know what? We (dems) shouldn’t even be talkin bout this. Should have already been a done deal. Bunch of weak kneed pansy asses. God I’m sick of BOTH parties.

Scarecrow – Excellent point regarding the comparison with Murtha. This is really no different (other than the tepid response of fellow dems). I think that also supposedly played into Repug hands.

rwcole says: sounds like Charlie just let a cat out of the bag- sounds like he’s a dem!

No kidding. He’s right, though. If there’s anything Dean has been right about, it’s the need to rebuild a national Democratic Party. It’s foolish to rely on just a few states to provide support for each Presidential candidate. If we keep ignoring those red states, they’re just going to get redder.

“Please, Democratic Senators, be Democrats!”-Teddy SanFran
That’s exactly what they’re doing, unfortunately. Face it folks, the battle’s over. The corporate Republocrats won. I don’t believe the human race will survive the century.

Does anyone know Feingold’s history?

Don’t want to judge this thing yet- but it sounds a little like a guy who sat alone in the locker room and thought up a new play- which he didn’t bother to pass on to anyone else on the team..

If the new play is “Russ brings the ball downcourt and shoots from thirty feet—well I can understand why not everyone is happy with him. The guys I played with would have cut him a new one- if that’s the situation.

Yeah, a vote on Feingold’s resolution would have “split the caucus on an issue that needed time to get the whole caucus to support.” As previously noted above, the Dems have had more than 3 months to get their act together — on an issue where Bush has already admitted that he broke the law. The argument that the Dems need more time to come together makes me shake — remember the amount of time Kerry took to finally respond to the Swifties? THAT was effective. Take a strong stand already, bloody hell. Bush is at 34-38%. Come on, take a chance that you might start an incredible groundswell – even among those “swing” voters Diebold tells you mean so much to your re-election chances. Playing it “safe” is just business as usual; playing it safe at this point is just playing it stupid.

With a mortifyingly few exceptions, the Dems seem to have been hijacked and their spirit broken. I’m still willing to align myself with the party, but at this point, I’d vote for anyone who is willing to show some backbone and stand up to the Bushy Reps and their “wartime” President. I’m looking for someone who can actually represent and focus the deep resentment I feel towards this government’s trend to fascism. I’m looking for someone willing to say “YES” and “NO” plainly and without equivocation. I’m looking for someone who recognizes that those fantasy “swing” voters are WAY too far over in right field to chase.

Russ Feingold has consistently stepped up and spoken truth to power. I’m proud of him and, to the extent that it is still possible for a politician to do so, he inspires me.

I am a liberal.

Evil Parallel Universe says:
March 14th, 2006 at 10:12 pm

Who’s talking about defeat? Where did I say that/

I’m thrilled to be playing offense.

When have we had a chace to play offense in years?

Last week I wrote my front pager, “Is It High Tide Yet?”

I’m an old sea dog. Slack tide, the moment of non-movement between low tide and the turning toward high tide, is hard to disntinuguish from the beginnings of the incoming tide.

This effort by us and Feingold is the first discernable movement of the incoming tide.

Defeat? Hello no.

I’m ecstatic.

And, I’m also trying to help our little army here concentrate its fire in the most effective direction, so we can be maximally successful in a minimal amount of time.

new thread!

Pachacutec:

Our only chance to advance a progressive agenda is to inflitrat and take over the agenda of the democratic party. We’re doing it.

And the evidence that you’re doing so is where?

The idea — promoted by Todd Gitlin, among others — that the Democratic Party, especially at the local level, is an empty shell, just waiting for progressive activists to inhabit it is a myth. From top to bottom, the center of gravity in the Democratic Party is among corporate militarist “centrists” (really secular conservatives), who have no interest in rocking the boat, and who will vigorously resist any efforts by the progressive grassroots to take over the party…or even have a seat at the table. Just look what happened to Howard Dean (who was always, correctly, considered a centrist as governor of Vermont).

Progressives remain the battered spouses of the Democratic Party. The only remaining argument for progressives to stay in the party is “where else are you going to go?” (the first sentence I quote above is a variation on this theme). As is the case with anyone trapped in an abusive relationship, the challenge for us is to create an exit strategy. Progressives need to realize that any real solution begins with a clear-eyed understanding of our situation within the Democratic Party, and a determination to leave.

Professor Foland says:

March 14th, 2006 at 10:11 pm

. . .
In re: “Desire for investigation”-argument

Professor, may I suggest CCR motion.

Argument: Based on the public information, a reasonable fact finder could make adverse inferences and reasonably conclude the FISA statutes are self-evident, and the defenses to date are frivolous.

The body of evidence — scant as it is — overwhelmingly supports the reasonable conclusion that the President violated the law; and the President fatally failed to deny the conduct as one might reasonably have done if they were innocent.

Rather that provide a credible legal defense, the President’s own chief legal advisor — US Attorney General Gonzalez — did nothing to mitigate any reasonable conclusion that the Presidential conduct was at odds with the statute; and that the specific ministerial duties in FISA trump the generalized AUMF powers.

No reasonable fact finder could conclude that AUMF is constitutional given that it was based on fraud. Rather, the FISA is well established and well recognizes ministerial duties, and does nothing to trump — but lawfully asserts — Presidential powers in war time. The Constitution does not recognize absolute Presidential power to declare war, wage war, and interpret statute. These powers are delegated to the Constitution to the other two branches.

We the People have delegated these powers to different branches. A reasonable person would have to conclude the President remains in rebellion. We need not conduct any investigation. The self-evident unconstitutional and illegal conduct has not been credible defended much less justified.

If Congress fails to lawfully check the power, Congress may reasonable be inferred to have joined this unlawful Presidential rebellion. Reasonable discussions by the People may reasonably conclude that the abused — and non-asserted — powers may not be delegated to the Federal Government, and lawfully revoked at a Constitutional Convention.

Moreover, the People may reasonably conclude that the long string of abuses warrants appropriate changes to the legislative immunity doctrine, and lawfully compel Congress to assent to 42 USC 1983 in matters of declarations of war; failure to assert the power against the President; and in matters related to asserting the oath against well known Presidential violations of the law of the land.

Congress must choose whether they want to protect the Constitution now; or have the People reasonably make an adverse inference that this Congress — and the individual Members of Congress — remain in rebellion with the President against the Constitution.

The States are poised — with lawful state proclamations demanding impeachment — to compel this Congress to vote up or down — thereby showing the world whether this Congress is for or against the Constitution — regardless whether the Congress wishes to assent or avoid its obligations.

Congress must choose: For the Constitution or for the President’s unlawful rebellion.

There are not other options.

The states are prepared to lawfully revoke the abused and non-asserted powers of the Federal Government.

Choose wisely. We have eight [8] months to watch Congress “think about†whether they are for or against the Constitution.

There is only one answer.

Yeah, what Watertiger says (thanks to John Casper for the link).
http://www.derenegade.blogspot.com/

i don’t give a green goddam if Russ didn’t consult with the team because the team quit trying to do the right thing a long time ago ; if he acts like a lone wolf, all the more reason for us to back up the pack. Dammit.

new thread.

Re: this truth from upthread …

>>I just realized that the Dems have Battered Wives Syndrome….
Maybe if we were just a little less “partisen†they would be nicer to us.

*just wondering: when is Feingold up for reelection? Has he been reelected since opposing the patriot act in 2001 and opposing the war?

*I called brownback’s office yesterday and the person answering the phone, who was clueless, said she would have a staff person who was familiar with the issue call me back. They didn’t. Better(?)than roberts’ office, which claimed not to know his position but did not offer to have someone call me back.

Allard doesn’t matter, except to mobilize Coloradans to evict him from office; who matters is Senator Salazar.

Note to the Senator: This is what un-collegiality looks like. We voted you into office to counter Allard’s influence — now is the time to show you know why you and your brother are in Washington — and it ain’t to get kickbacks and pork from ethically-challenged colleagues and lobbyists.

If you can hit Dobson when it counts, and ignore this insult, then you’re not willing to do the hard work of being a statesman — to defend and protect the Constitution, despite what happens to your personal fortunes.

Be a man. Don’t hide from that bully. Make your constituents proud enough to elect some help for you, as Governor, as Senator, as House members.

Folks – let’s stop pissing and moaning for the umpteen millionth time about what a spineless pack of soft-shelled mollusks those Democrat “leaders” are. Let’s figure out how to use this better, so we can tell them the next time we call them – tomorrow probably.

Has anyone else seen this report from ACLU Pittsburg that they have the FOIA’d proof that the FBI spied on a Thomas Merton Peace Group only because they were a peace group? Came out this afternoon.

http://www.abcnews.go.com/Poli…..id=1724279

What happens when you put this together with the obvious fact that this censure proposal regards the unconstitutionality and illegality of spying on citizens by the Bushies?

Then Russ begins to seem a little prescient perhaps?

BenA says:
March 14th, 2006 at 10:30 pm

If you read, you can find it all over the blogosphere.

But please, don’t let me rain on your Nader parade.

I’m not going to do your research for you.

But one would think the Fiengold action and the campaign supporting it would be one bit of evidence. One might even think that kos report of his meeting with Texas democrats would be more evidence.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyo…..103944/215

More research than that I won’t do for you.

rwcole says:t sounds a little like a guy who sat alone in the locker room and thought up a new play…

He sounds to me like the guy who sits alone in the locker room because he’s the only one who doesn’t think it’s cool to wear your underwear on your head.

rw –

The point is not whether Finegold is a team player — it’s whether the Democratic team is willing to play.

The Beltway Dems are channeling George McClellan –

Russ Finegold is channeling Ulysses S. Grant.

Ulysses S. Grant said, “The art of war is simple enough. Find out where your enemy is. Get at him as soon as you can. Strike him as hard as you can and as often as you can, and keep moving on.”

[Edit above]
Ref: Constant says:
March 14th, 2006 at 10:31 pm

Line 2 of argument

Change: “conclude the FISA statutes are self-evident” —

to read “conclude the FISA statute violations are self-evident”

Anonymous says:
March 14th, 2006 at 10:33 pm

He won re-election in 2004.

In the 2004 Senate election, Feingold defeated the Republican candidate, construction magnate Tim Michels, by 12% (56%-44%), earning a third term. During the campaign, Feingold refrained from imposing spending caps on himself as he had in the past, and raised and spent almost $11 million. Although Republicans attempted to use that fact to paint him as a hypocrite, Feingold’s records showed that more than 90% of the money came from individuals, that the average contribution was only $60, and that, once again, a majority of it was raised from Wisconsin residents [2]. Feingold’s victory was seen by many pundits as a vindication of the many controversial stances that he had taken during his second term, as it was by far his largest electoral victory thus far. Feingold even won many counties which also supported the re-election of Republican President George W. Bush.

BenA says:
March 14th, 2006 at 10:30 pm

And by the way: I’m a psychologist. I’ve run groups for battered women and know a fuckload more about this stuff than you do.

So you can take your battered wives analogy bullshit and. . .

ck says:
March 14th, 2006 at 10:36 pm

Agreed. Nice quote.

BenA:

HAHAHAHAH

Just look what happened to Howard Dean (who was always, correctly, considered a centrist as governor of Vermont).

Yeah. Now he’s the Chair of the DNC. And we put him there.

How’s that for research for ya?

ck–yeah- maybe..

I’ll judge Russ in the end by the results of this manuever. Still too early to know that.

Feingold should run as an independent

Raw Story sources:

several Senate aides

One longtime Senate aide

the aide

Three senior Senate Democratic aides

an aide

one Democratic Senate aide

One aide

Several aides

one staffer
—————————–

Not one named source. That’s not good enough. Do yourself a favor and ignore such trash.

As far as I’m concerned, we shouldn’t just censure Bush… we should censure them ALL. Anyone who voted not to censure Bush should go… Republican OR Dem. If they didn’t vote “yes,” they’re part of the problem and need to be replaced.

IMMEDIATELY.

If you talk tough but can’t back it up you end up looking weak. This is Feingold’s problem. It appears he didn’t do the hard work of lining up support for his motion. He wouldn’t have gotten a majority, but he might have gotten enough Democrats to show that the ground is shifting under the administration. Of course there are wusses in the caucus, but the way to bring them around is not by embarassing them in public. It takes a lot of painstaking one-on-one, but that’s the way politics works.

Praedor:

I was told in no uncertain terms by a staffer in Bayh’s D.C. office this morning that Bayh would not support Feingold.

Maybe he’s reconsidering….?

I bet the “long time Senate aide” is an aide to Lieberman.

FUCK CENSURE. we need to win this year’s election so we get subpoena power so we can

I M P E A C H

I knew Boxer would come through!

Feinstein, on the other hand, is a reluctant democrat.

Help her find her way!

Fax numbers for DiFi:

DC 2022283954
LA 2138945042
SF 4159566701
SD 6192395719
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Chickenshits.

Feingold is the fascists nightmare, he’s progressive, smart, goodlookin’, understands politics like Einenstein understood math AND he’s Jewish. In his last re-election campaign he refused to take any big pac or “wiseguy” money, this made the final election numbers much closer than they had to be but he proved a point to other Dems in “Blueland” and nobody picked up on it…hmmmm?

Someone else downstream (er upstream er across stream…in this formate I don’t know where the fuck I am) called the question that nobody anywhere has been willin to engage and it gets to why Feingold’s faith and solid cultural background is important. That is, AIPAC has been drivin our politics…this is the 500 pound gorilla in the livingroom. I don’t want to go any further with this other than to say that Feingold provides cover to Democrats to break with the animal trainers and this makes him the fascists’ worst nightmare. If enough Democrats follow the light, it will make it very difficult for AIPAC to impose discipline on ‘em without comin’ out into the middle of the room and becoming a part of the public conversation.

Feingold has won for himself already and when the other Democrats from outside the Confederacy figure this out, they can come out into the light also and then the power AIPAC has been able to weild in the dark evaporates. This action by Feingold is the equivelant of breakin the leash, now WE can feed the dog.

KEEP THE FAITH, THE TRUTH ONLY HURTS OUR ENEMIES!!

Decos,

“If you talk tough but can’t back it up you end up looking weak”

Bullshit…in a democracy, if you talk tough and use the weapons you have to fight, you draw support from the crowd and if enough of the crowd agrees with you you win the round even if you lose the vote. The power the ruling party has is the intimidation of the bribe…make them use that power in the open and you find yourself without an opponent.

Feingold is strippin the cloths offa the emperor.

KEEP THE FAITH, EVENTUALLY THEY WILL CRAWL BACK UNDER THE ROCK!!!

In effect, Finegold’s reso is a frickin’ loyalty oath to the Constitution, and they all, or nearly all, run and hide.

Pathetic.

Late to the party. Maybe this was mentioned upthread, but a couple of things jump out in my anger about what we are seeing here.
1. Can we be sure it is a “Democratic aide”
and not another story planted by Karl Rove?
2. If it is a Democratic aide, some Senator is
hiding behind the words of an aide too
afraid to go on the record himself or
herself.
3. One of our commenters mentioned earlier
today that “this had Biden’s handprints
all over it…” or some other Senator who
wants to be the candidate in 2008.
Now Feingold has just imho, moved to the
head of the pack and they resent it, but
did not have the guts to do what Russ did.

Here goes, no “preview” to hit first so please bear with the end result of what gets printed.

Pachucatec,

Let’s start with Howard Dean. My whole point about Dean is that he’s a centrist, yet even his presidential run was too threatening for a lot of party bigwigs. If Dennis Kucinich or Barbara Lee became DNC chair, that might be evidence that progressives had a seat at the table. Dean’s success is a sign of slightly greater tactical flexibility, no more. And even that seems too much for some of the leading lights in Congress, who can’t stop sniping at him.

I’m not sure what the point of your link to the the dKos story about the CTG event in Austin was (which I’d already read, at any rate). It indicates that there are a lot of progressive, grassroots Democrats in Austin, TX. That’s hardly news. I don’t see how it suggests that they have any say whatsoever in DC…or even in the Texas statehouse. If this is any indication of the quality of the “research” you’re refusing to do for me, I’m glad you’re not wasting your time.

FWIW, I’m not a Naderite, but I guess you’d rather deal with me via epithets than argument.

I think that Feingold should have worked behind the scenes to get more approval of his resolution. I’m not saying that the Senate Dems shouldn’t back their man, I’m just saying that it sounds like he tossed a grenade without making sure his buddies were wearing armor.

Cry babies all

No heart and no guts. The only reason the Democrats are pissed at Feingold is that he forced them to show what they are made of. And just as we knew, they have feet of clay.

BenA,

My advice to you, friend…do ya mind if I call ya “friend”…is don’t take on Pachacutec unless ya gotcher lunch and a week’s worth a dessert. If you fuck with the bull ya get the horns.

And yes…I’ll take ya on. That pathetic Naderite-Dennis Kucinich line that tries to define a “progressive” as anyone who has a pulse and a social security number and will donate to their campaign is a tool of the fascist clique that rules this country. How’s that for starters??!! The problem with pathetic Dennis Kucinich is he doesn’t know who the enemy is and when he is among friends. Nader on the other hand, knows perfectly well who the enemy is and he choses to fight the good guys anyway…go figure.

KEEP THE FAITH AND DON’T BRING THAT WEAK SHIT INTO MY HOUSE!!!

Professor Foland: great comment. But substitute the word “polling” for “investigation” and you may get better insight into what the Rs are up to: they’re trying to figure out whether that thing in front of them is really, truly a parade before they run out in front.

VichyDems

Russ Feingold is the only elected federal officeholder who preserve, protects and defends the Constitution. He’s the only patriot. The rest are perjurors (lying when they took their oaths of office) and traitors to the ideals and laws of the United States.

One of the most successful tactics Karl Rove has perpetuated over the past four years is to get Dems turning on ourselves by convincing us that we think a certain way. I hear it every day from the attacks on Hillary Clinton to this latest on Russ Feingold. They tell us how to think and we fall for it. Russ Feingold should be hailed a hero. Finally, a Dem is speaking out against this evil, incompetent administration and some people are writing he did it for personal gain. Are you people NUTS? Connect the dots and realize where these negative attacks originate. I, for one, called or emailed every Dem Senator, demanding they support Feingold and I also told the Senator he has my vote and my monetary support in 2008. If most of our leaders were like R. Feingold, we would have either Kerry or Gore in the Whitehouse, and we would not be in the mess we are in now. Take a lesson from the Repubs and stick together. Let Russ know you have his back.

hoping to close the tag.

Whatever, NorskeFlamethrower. As far as I’m concerned these disagreements aren’t personal (so call me “friend” if you wanna).

I was just struck by Pachacutec’s triumphalism in the midst of a thread that’s all about how many Democratic Senators seem more upset about Feingold’s resolution than about Bush’s lawbreaking.

If this is what a Democratic Party transformed by the progressive grassroots looks like, you can have it!

In my life, liberals have been kept under control by what Dave Emory once called the three b’s: bribes, bedrooms and bullets. If you can’t bribe ‘em, you blackmail ‘em. If that doesn’t work, you shoot ‘em.

The cowardice of the Dems on such an obvious thing suggests numbers one or two. If someone sends out another mailing of anthrax to the Senate building maybe we’re back to the third option.

The only anger proper to direct at Feingold is that, by not notifying the other Dems, he beat them to the punch! What, you mean they weren’t working on censure motions themselves? Why not? We’ve had years of lying and law-breaking, and the NSA thing was the last straw. Anyone worried about Feingold setting himself up for 2008 should be shouldering him out of the way and stepping into the Censure Bush! limelight themselves, not whining and moaning.

BenA,

One a the things ya learn if ya read FDL for awhile is that the anger of losing doesn’t translate into self-destructive cynicism for very long…there are always folks like Pachacutec around who will take the anger and direct it toward hope. That’s what is really exicting about this place, I really think Firedoglake is the synthesizer that is bringin’ all the elements of progressive politics and society together…there is a new thing happenin’ here and it’s different in that selfdefeating arguments don’t last long here.

KEEP THE FAITH,AND MAKE SURE YA KNOW WHAT YER AIMIN AT!!!

Pachacutec, I’m so with you on all your posts today. I’m so glad you’re with me in Virginia! And NorskeFlamethrower, wherever you are, you’re standing tall. We have to reclaim Democrats, be Democrats, and show everyone what Democrats are! We can fight! We can be in solidarity! We’ve won wars against fascism, and we’ll do it again!

Today, I wrote to Senators Reid, Nelson (FL), and Feingold after calling Nelson’s local office in FL, and attempting to call his office in Washington (busy). When I spoke to the staffer in the local office, she said Nelson was going to “wait and see” what the investigations revealed. I let her know how deeply disappointed I was, and her “perkiness” when we signed off was disconcerting, to say the least. I don’t think she, or most people have a clue as to how important this is to our future, nor to the viability of the Constitution and the balance of power in government.

I share the frustration and outrage,of everyone who has posted, that Feingold is being portrayed as an opportunist, when, in fact, he is the only person in Congress, in my estimation, with integrity and courage. I don’t think this is is, in any way, about running for President in 2008. I think it is simply the action of someone who takes his oath of office, seriously.

We simply must keep writing and calling and talking about this to everyone we know. Call your Senators every day. Just annoy the heck out of them!

Called Senators Clinton and Schumer today to support the censure initiative. Apparently they have not made up their minds and no one seemed too interested in documenting my call. Unless there is an outpouring of pressure from the public in support of Senator Feingold’s iniative this will be another win for Republicans. Keep up the pressure.

jdw, what Democrat do you work for? Are you one of those angry staffers? Well, I am one of those ANGRY Democrat voters, and I say lets vote out all the Democrats who are up for reelection if they do not support Russ Feingold.

I just sent this to DNC:

Well, here’s my last communication. I took my “Texas Democrat” sticker off my Excursion today. I used to spot “Bush/Cheney” and “W” stickers on the highway and I’d pull in front of them so they’d get the message. You’ve lost a supporter.
I know. I’m just from Texas. Sam Johnson will get 85% in my district this year. Blah blah. But you know what? It is hard as hell being a Democrat in Texas. I get harshly criticized by my coworkers and peers and family. It’s a tough job. But I’ve learned something from you. I quit.
You guys made a fatal error with a very large and getting larger community of voters by not supporting Feingold. Feingold is turning into a goddamn folk hero before our very eyes. Dean was gaining this reputation and you keep him in a jar.
Shame on you. Shame on each and every one of you. Racing to the bottom. Pathetic.

The Answer:  Bill Frist and Wayne Allard.
The Question:  Name two Republican Senators who gleefully impeached Bill Clinton during wartime over stuff that was none of their business, yet now oppose so much as censuring “wartime president” George W. Bush for illegally spying on Americans and then lying about it.

go ask Alice…
i think i musta bumped my head falling down the rabbit hole.
it seems to me pretty clear that somebodies got the goods on almost all the dems…they know when to shut up.

It’s time we take the power back from these coward Dems and enable the Feingolds of the world.

I agree with the guy who says the dems have battered wives syndrome. They are just too shell shocked from being in the minority for so long.
The polls show that the public doesn’t trust Bush. The dems should be capitalizing on this as they should have filibustered Alito. We need a leader that can unify. Get Reid out of there- he’s worthless.

If you are truly surprised by the reception Feingold’s motion has received among Dems…well, you’re naive.

In 1972 I was national field staff for Benjamin Spock’s Presidential campaign for the Peoples’ Party, a coalition including Michigan’s Human Rights, California’s Peace and Freedom and others, mostly allied by anti-war fervor. Come September, the chair of the coalition revealed to the staff that he long had been secretly on McGovern’s payroll, a fact which he then neglected to mention in his press release announcing that he was switching his support to the Dem ticket and urging other liberals to vote for the only feasible alternative to Nixon.

Why do you expect Kennedy, Biden, Boxer, Clinton et al. to be brave, noble, idealistic, or even particularly well-intentioned? As DC lifers, they honestly believe they’re the better alternative, just because they are. Some have already opposed a war or two. They’ve already opposed a President. Maybe they even voted a couple of times against an oil company. Why go through all that effort when they no longer need to in order to stay in office. Ain’t being in Congress a grand lifestyle? Taking a position at odds with corporate funders’ wishes might threaten all that.

That’s no reason to stop fighting their resistance. And remember that people in the streets forced the end of the Vietnam War (along with military losses on te ground), not the Democratic Party. Jimmy Carter was not a liberal. Bill Clinton was not a liberal. Get some perspective and then go make change.

http://www.tpmcafe.com/node/27816#comment-103835

‘nuf said…

Jon Stewart and Ed Helms just blasted and gutted the cowardly Democratic consultants, using the estimable Paul Hackett. What a howler!

So you think the constitution is a football field?

Hey Norskeee, AIPAC RRRRRRAWWWWWWWKSSSSS and u suk.

I just called the local offices of my senators (Kennedy and Kerry) and representative (Capuano) to thank the latter two for their support for the Feingold and Conyers bills, respectively, and to urge Senator Kennedy to get off the fence already. I get the impression that Kennedy’s staff does not necessarily agree with his wait and see stand, so it will only help their cause for lots of constituents to call.

I said that I quite agree that there should be a full investigation and that censure is intended to be only the first step but that I do not understand what else the Senator needs to hear right now, given that the president proudly announced that he was breaking the law, intended to continue doing so and essentially challenged everybody to do something about it. I also said that anyone who believed that this Congress would do a full investigation of anything could become a billionaire by selling whatever it is he’s smoking. Finally, I said that, since Senator Kennedy is one of the few senators who can put sentences together into a good speech, he should do so now in support of Senator Feingold.

To Senator Kerry’s office I said that I had frequently been very unhappy with his failure to take a strong stand but that I was extremely pleased to see him find his spine and hoped that he would keep track of it.

Representative Capuano needs to hear from his constituents. The staff person I spoke with said that calls were mixed, so all of my neighbors who are reading this should call, I hope with congratulations for taking the right stand.

Last but not least, I assume the senators are both getting plenty of calls, especially Senator Kennedy, judging by how long I spent on hold. Let’s keep them coming.

Although I am sympthetic with Ho-Hum, (I’m from Georgia) I am also disappointed that he/she would abandon us. Ho-Hum has just made some Repubs very happy. The Repubs have been adept at convincing our leaders that we think a certain way and we, at the grassroots really did not do much to tell them otherwise. Getting our voices heard takes a while. I feel that this groundswell from the grassroots has made it clear what we expect and in the future I would hope our “leaders” will feel that we have their back. If they don’t pay attention, we will vote them out. But right now is not the time to back out. So please Ho Hum, proudly put that Texas Democrat bumper sticker on you Excursion and get in front of all of those W04s. I do the same thing although I am finding it difficult to find many to pull in front of.