Given the whoppers that Bob Woodward freely tells in the service of protecting the identity of his "sources" when a better man would just STFU, how much do I care that he tells the Harvard Crimson that "Mr. X" does not work in the administration? About as much as I care what Novakula has to say about the Democratic obsession with the 16 words.
Yawn.
Much more interesting is Matt Welch’s analysis of Woodward’s motives in all of this:
If there’s one theme tying his books together, it’s this: Don’t mess with the country’s secret intelligence agencies, and don’t let the White House develop a competing house of spooks. In an October interview with the First Amendment Center, Woodward said Felt, the FBI’s No. 2 man, was motivated by “the Nixon White House manipulating the FBI and trying to make the FBI into another instrument of the political apparatus.” Felt himself was no saint; he was later convicted of violating the civil rights of American citizens during his crackdown on the Weather Underground.
Veil, Woodward’s extraordinary 1987 account of how William Casey, director of the CIA during the Reagan administration, tried to force the agency to cook up bogus links between the Soviet Union and terrorism, reads like a prequel to Dick Cheney’s battles to stovepipe intelligence for the anti-communists’ new crusade against Islamic terrorism and Saddam Hussein. Indeed, it’s Cheney (whose office, after all, was the target of Fitzgerald’s investigation) who looks like the rogue in Woodward’s bureaucracy-influenced worldview.
The vice president, a Nixon appointee, was Gerald Ford’s chief of staff and has been the Bush administration’s point man in rolling back post-Watergate reforms limiting executive power. According to Woodward, “Cheney almost had another heart attack” when Bush agreed to be interviewed for his 2004 book Plan of Attack. And it’s not hard to guess to whom the Post reporter was referring when he told the First Amendment Center, “The big worry that we should have about the country is not terrorism or hurricanes or Karl Rove or George Bush or whoever; the real thing that will bring us down as a country is secret government.”
Maybe this is after all the white horse Woody sees himself riding on when the rest of us just see a commitment to access journalism and fat book deals.
Update: Swopa has more.
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Why all this brouhaha over methods? There is a lot to do, and we know that the corporations are a big part of the problem. So is apathy. The keyboarding we do here is somewhat frustrating because we are looking for some sense of meaning in what we do. and typing is a sorry substitute. Still, it’s important that we continue to communicate; calling each other assholes or blog whores is not communication. Try to be a civil society in here, because if we can’t do it here, it will not happen anywhere.
I want to know who else in the media Bush has hauled in to influence a story. I would imagine when Keller and Shultzburg (or whatever his name is) arrived he told them not to publish the story about being wired for the debates as well. I would guess Woodward or “Woody” as the un-elected idiotic asshole likes to call him is the king of this.
“well read your dog’s blog you asshole!
Anonymous | 12.21.05 – 9:29 pm”
Whoah. Anonymous you are totally out of line here and so far with every comment you have made directed at our long time FDL’ers. Granted it’s a holiday week and many of us regulars are rather busy to be able to catch up to address your unbecoming infantile behavior which isn’t tolerated on this outstanding blog.
Sam and his dog Jake are beloved here. Me3 is beloved here. Siun is beloved here. I’ve lost track of how many of our esteemed and highly respected, intelligent regulars you have hurled your ignorant invectives at. You’ve also left your IP address behind because surely you are short timing it in these parts.
One last FYI, we routinely put up the link and promote buyblue.org here. Get some manners, then get a life, and go buy yourself a clue for a holiday present.
Oh, and Sam….if thine eye offend thee pluck it out…..cause’ there’s lotsa work to do and getting upset over some trivial BS ain’t gonna help the cause.
Anonymous….I think most people here are pretty well informed about Walmart and most of the other companies you cite. Part of the reason we come to this forum is because we’re totally fed up with the mainstream crap and drivel. You act as if we’re all ignorant of these facts and it is insulting. We’re here because we know this shit. We’re here cause’ Jane & Reddhead know this shit and those of us who didn’t know this shit found out about it when we got here…..or to any of the other great liberal blogs. I’ve seen more accomplished by all the “keyboarders” you denigrate than I have by being active in my local party….and believe me I’m active. If it weren’t for these “keyboarders” I doubt we would even know about half the stuff we know now. I’ll bet if you asked, more than half the people here have taken physical action. But you haven’t asked. You’ve just assumed. Me3’s battle is only a part of what we do. Please don’t make assumptions. You have no idea what we all do economically. You’re barking at the wrong dogs. Go over to LGF or something and see how long they let you bark over there.
Thank you.
dAVE – welcome – fdl is an awesome community.
i only discovered firedoglake about a week ago, to my continuing delight. great articles, & some really impressive comments. the other thing i’ve particularly appreciated about this site are the numerous polls & petitions posted, by & large, by Me3. i think they’re providing us all w/ an invaluable service, & don’t deserve such inane heckling from you, anonymous (of course you’re right about economic power, but how would you even expect to organise these massive boycotts if people like Me3 didn’t know how to use a computer?). what makes you such an alpha-activist? i got beat up by the cops, can i be in your club?
someday i hope to learn how to USE a computer, but until then, i’ll just have to keep tappin’ away, & workin’ w/ real live people in my community, & thinkin’ my thoughts, & buying blue, & speakin’ my mind, & recyclin’, & educatin’ myself, & tryin’ not to get arressted, &…well, generally, as Gandhi said, trying to “BE the change you want to see in the world.”
oh — your loss siun, I would have paid you what you are worth….
well that’s zero — but don’t feel bad, its the same amount I spend at walmart, target, applebee’s, staples, home depot and some local organizations that give 100% of political contributions (read: MY MONEY) to chimpy and his enablers.
sium
like I would listen to your lecture.
sorry, i will post what I please, but guess “groupthink” is more important to some…
Anonymous:
Jake has some sound advice for you. Put on
a DVD that will make you laugh and take
your mind off of politics etc for a few hours.
He thinks your fingers are over used and need
to relax. Put them in some water with
epsom salts.
I don’t offer copyediting services to people who call me stupid or accuse valued FDL colleagues of blogwhoring.
Taking responsibility for your own writing and for how you talk to people here would be a good exercise – you might like to try it sometime.
finis
Diid yu kno thaat speling iz nott reely importnt whn creeatng a reedible mssge. In fct, sistums of “spead righting’ r oftn bassed on ohmitting intermeediat vwls. Mny r amzed to c tht thy cn actualee cnstrct meenng from grssly mssplled wrds. Amzng, izn’t it!
sium — thanks, rather concentrate on the message and let you be my spellchecker.
keeps the morons guessing
the democratic party, liberalism, and the labor movement have been paralized ever since they adopted the meme that somehow it is “wrong” to talk about economic issues.
Some believe that is how we got in this mess in the first place
Obviously, some are still “ticklish” today
We we are willing to take back the issue that used to unite progressive causes, we will see change.
In the meantime, leep shopping at walmart and staples if you need to.
Perhaps Anonymous needs another keyboarding class? So adept at insults to others, so inept at spelling and grammar.
Jake brushes his teeth and rinses with a mouthwash.
Sounds like santorum’s kind of dog. WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF!
Bend over and BARK for me fido!
no connetion at all, its the CONCEPT, stupid — tell the media what you think buy carefully spending your dollars
but if you think your prose are genius and are going to change the word, keep tappin’ away
You know, keyboarding is a psychomotor skill that is learned through careful practice and combination of different keystrokes.
Eventially the fingers learn their place, first letter by letter, then short word by work, and then phrases. This is called “chaining”
It is usually taught with careful repetitions of carefully selected text.
Eventually, however, have to learn how to put some thought into what you key — keep trying!
Edward Teller:
To help you get that doglicking image out of
your mind perhaps I should of jokingly
said that Jake brushes his teeth and rinses
with a mouthwash.
Again I should of left the dog comment
out as it detracted from the message.
ummm … one more thing
Anonymous – perhaps you would like to clarify your relationship if any to the http://www.buyblue.org site which you continually cite as the source for “the answers”?
I find those frequent references closer to blogwhoring personally.
Re the MSNBC poll:
I voted back when it was 26,000 or so votes. Approaching 50,000, and Bush’s core has gone from 8% to 7%. MSNBC has to make this a story, don’t they?
I haven’t checked LGF or any of the other koolaid sites, but maybe I will when I get the doglicking image out of my mind and need further scatological entertainment. Anybody check to see if freepers are hyping the poll?
In reference to corporate media
it retains tremendous influence
exactly — tremendous influence as a vehicle to sell a bunch of crap. That is its primary purpose. The news and all other programing just attracts the viewers so that advertisers can “catapult their propoganda” and we all go to home depot.
46858 responses
88% supporting impeachment.
I noticed too, reading the AOL-AP post above… I went into the comments section and there were prominate complaints about AOL moderators manipulating the message boards to suppress the anti-Bush factions… Which are now in the majority.
Interesting… AOL practicing active Fascism.
I suspect this movement will have more real impact than boycotts
perhaps, we can guess all day — boycotts are a time-honored method with proven results. They are guaranteed to get the media’s attention.
but continue to shop at walmart, target, home depot, applebee’s, and staples if that is important to you.
I have not said that the keyboarding brigade is wrong — it just hasn’t worked yet and we have more “tools” in our toolbox.
In the end, without economic support, everything else is hot air.
but feel free to disagree, even proclaim you have all of the answers if you like.
I, for one, am grateful we don’t all think the same — isn’t that what we are actually rallying against?
pull the plug on the TV
why not keep the TV plugged in but pull your dollars from the corporate media.
but I am not here to promote myself or my Web, check out http://www.buyblue.org
they have the answers
but if you prefer, continue to march with the keyboarding brigade
guess we are fighting for the same thing…. make this a free country with a fair and open democracy again
anonymous,
I can’t say it any better than siun.
well, you have shown your true color, me3
you keep leading the keyboarding brigade and I will continue to boycott the flat iron steak at applebee’s
you can continue to support the corporate media with your dollars
LOL
thanks for your “sacrifices” SUPERMAN!
The first and simplest economic action, but the one people are least likely to take is to pull the plug on the TV – just for six months, just to get their attention.
But how would I keep up with the latest lies, trash, and trivia?
And what the hell would I do with my self and my life’s time?
No. I couldn’t do that. Anyway, it would do no good.
…
Me3,
Keep up the good work.
Anonymous – Me3 has been an active *contributor* to this comment community for a long time now and has worked extremely hard to create and maintain lists, sample letters and similar tools that help readers here talk back to the MSM. It’s been a great service and is certainly not “blog-whoring.”
FDL has built a strong community of participation and mutual respect – and is a stronger and truer model of good blogging than the big boys you refer to IMHO – and part of that is Me3’s continuing nudge to all of us to take action.
While I certainly agree with your point that the media is now a corporate revenue center as opposed to real journalism, it retains tremendous influence and is also relatively responsive to shifts in consumer attitudes. Letting the media barons know that we see through their access stenography and BushCo’s corruption (in all senses of the word) is one way to nudge the conversation at least back towards the center.
Is it enough – no … but is it a start? yes. And Me3 puts in a lot of time to make that start accessible to several thousand people. Not a bad contribution!
If we assume that the majority of people are not about to opt out of the consumer society, my guess is that boycotts of the companies you cite are unlikely to bring enough pressure in the short term to make a significant difference. That said, buying local and supporting sustainable enterprises is another very good start to the work we need to do.
Another tact being used very effectively is the corporate engagement by NGOs such as Amnesty International or CERES. There is actually a pretty interesting movement amongst MBA students and corporate folks to look more closely at social responsibility and the roles played by the big corporations. Some small but genuine progress is beginning there – and I suspect this movement will have more real impact than boycotts – but I work in the field so I may be wearing rose colored glasses on this one.
not saying you shouldn’t just saying that it isn’t really going to change things as much as hittin’ them in the ol’ pocketbook.
they call it “corporate media” for a reason.
http://www.buyblue.org has the anwers, but continue to promote yourself, superman.
“don’t think you have any “great” quiestions….”
Didn’t think so… All troll and no action you are. Nothing but empty words and a distraction. A bomb throwing troll.
I have learned that when the opposition feels pressure as a result of effective actions I have implemented…
They act just like you do?
No more questions your honor.
“If boycotts were the foundation of the civil rights movement and the labor movement — they will work here.
Can you imagine Chavez telling migrant workers to “write letters to the newspapers”"
The circumstances are a little different. We are in a position in this country to educate the people. The press has actually turned left a great deal. Huge progress has been made already.
Where were you then?
In this battle… This war… The first thing to fight for is public opinion and support from press editors. We have done that, we are doing that.
Once the people are awake, and political infrastructure is in place to direct them… Larger campaigns may be launched.
Please feel to organize one.
I started this at the bottom. Working here, in these threads, with these people. They don’t just “tolerate me” they support the effort. It’s not “Me” it’s “Us”. As the blog has grown rapidly, we see more traffic, and I have always taken care to post the link to the media resources page and other topical links as well… Freely.
I will continue to do so.
oh, and try to repeatedly post that at americablog or atrios….
just saying…..
you do some good work….
now how about some meaningful action?
the image of your being obsessed by your dog’s cleaning patterns more than mildly amusing.
I think some find it erotic… its the santorum “man on dog” thing
don’t think you have any “great” quiestions….
keyboarding isn’t gonna solve this, but its a start
guess if you think you are some blogger god, that’s your choice
yeah right — martin luther king said, “be sure to write your congressman!”
are you promoting yourself or meaningful change…. I have tried to be respectful and supportive, but if you want to carry on like a know-it-all child…
but don’t tell me — write your congressman…
Sam,
I agree about the language and gossip which shows up from time to time. People are frustrated. I tend to avoid the nasty words, but also find the image of your being obsessed by your dog’s cleaning patterns more than mildly amusing.
OTOH, or tongue, now that that image is stuck in my miind, this IS one of the cleanest, most vital discussion groups on this planet.
Um…Bob, if secret government is so bad, why are you keeping so many government secrets?
cuz he is the “poster boy” about the lie of “objective” journalism.
Makes ya wonder who was really behind nixon’s downfall and why.
yeah right, watergate burglarly…
“BRING IT ON!”
I already did… You failed to address a single honest question posed. Uhhh… That would make you a… poser?
Letters work here now, they are read within 24 hours of the time you send them. This campaign has already born fruit, and it will continue to bear fruit.
No one said that they cannot be part of the solution — but those that steal 2 elections (or stand by and enable those thefts) certainly do not respond to the will of the people.
If boycotts were the foundation of the civil rights movement and the labor movement — they will work here.
Can you imagine Chavez telling migrant workers to “write letters to the newspapers”
LOL!
Um…Bob, if secret government is so bad, why are you keeping so many government secrets?
oh ppuuuuuuuulllllllllllleeeeeeezzzzzz
I respect what you are tyring to do — we both know that any number of other blogs would flame you mercilessly for the constant post.
I will give you credit for that.
Corporate media servers corporate interests, that is all I am saying.
The will understand the economic support or lack there-of of their sponsors long before they will change because we can keyboard.
This is a great board, and I appreicate that people allow you to continue blog whoring.
If you want to get into a snark war about how to create meaningful action, let me say:
“BRING IT ON!”
WASHINGTON (Dec. 21) – Vice President Dick Cheney on Tuesday called for “strong and robust” presidential powers, saying executive authority was eroded during the Watergate and Vietnam eras. Some lawmakers objected that President Bush’s decision to spy on Americans to foil terrorists showed he was flexing more muscle than the Constitution allows.”
And sadly they’ll get away with it. Throw out some vague references to Article 2, blah blah blah and there you go. Distort, misrepresent, use the word “briefing” and “notification’ interchangeably with “oversight”… This isn’t going to any court for a ruling and the votes aren’t there for impeachment.
So has Bush won on getting around FISA with the NSA? No, not entirely. If the reports are true that the story was leaked to the NYT by “current and former officials at the NSA”, there’s your “oversight”, sort of. It’s no longer a secret at least. Will there be an investigation to find the leakers? No e’ fin way. The last thing the administration wants is to get this in court and have to produce an endless stream of discovery and depositions to what would be the defense in a potential Whistle blower case.
Hell yes I hope we fail in Iraq. As soon and as clearly as possible.
Bullshit premise anyway because we’ve already failed, because we failed the minute these chickenhawks decided to militarily seize that hapless country for their own vainglory and other idiocies.
Nor do I (gasp!) support the troops. Hell no I do not. Sadly they have been made an instrument of evil. I do not support any troops who are tasked with pointless mass murder for a chimpanzee’s ego. I feel for them in their enslavement to a murderous cabal, and for the wounded and the dead abandoned and otherwise treated like dogshit by their cowardly Bushian inferiors. But I do NOT support one single “coalition” personnel in Iraq.
lol@Anonymous
How many letters have you written (please, tell me?) – Petitions? How many completed?
You may insinuate all you wish… But under a bomb throwing anon… I salute you with cannon fire. < boom >
Now… Answer the questions?
I can tell the other people (not you of course) that media campaigns are highly effective. I have been published twice, and have been contacted two other times about correspondence I have sent. I know they are reading. I have seen editorials come out that look as if they were cribbed right off my work.
People read, not machines. You are not addressing a machine when you write the media. Most Americans are not Fasicsts, and if you drop enough dissent, based on hard facts and strong evidence… People listen, opinions change… We have been educating the press, not the other way around.
For some anon to come in here and start telling you to vote with your pursestrings is great… But that action takes the cooperation of many, many people… It requires advertizing and coordination… And more over… It takes time to take effect.
Letters work here now, they are read within 24 hours of the time you send them. This campaign has already born fruit, and it will continue to bear fruit.
Even my dog keeps cleaner than some of the language here in.
well read your dog’s blog you asshole!
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10564550/
By Andrea Mitchell
She must have choke back bile being forced to write this story.
Me3 — I respect your work and that you are calling for action; won’t even criticize the constant “blog whoring” (I am sure we both know your repeated messages would not be tolerated on the ’superblogs”)
IMHO, it is misguided to think we can do much with the corporate media creating boycotts of the firms that provide the financing of this whole thing.
The corporate media only understands dollars and cents – not saying you are wrong, but I am suggesting you are “misguided”.
I do respect that you call for action — WHAT ABOUT ECONOMIC ACTION?
Walmart, Target, Applebee’s, Home Depot, Staples, to name a few, are the “cash cows” that made chimpy mcflightsuit possible.
CAN YOU ADD ECONOMIC ACTION TO YOUR SUGGESTIONS. Without this, media has no reason to really care.
The 101st Keyboarding Brigade works both ways — our dollars are the only votes that are actually and accurately counted today.
We cannot change this with just our keyboards.
I logged in here after being away some 6 hrs.
I am offended by the descent into juvenile
language about ding a lings(few days ago) and David Corn saving his “bris” skin (todays post)
Lets all try to a more dignified style of writing. Even my dog keeps cleaner than some of the language here in. I know there’s been trolls etc but to trash David Corn in this way is beneath the dignity of this wonderful and powerful blog.
oh really? is THAT woodward’s overarching theme? “DonÂ’t mess with the countryÂ’s secret intelligence agencies?” is THAT why woodward — publicly and repeatedly — dismissed ALL rumored or reported administration “messing” with a noc’s identity as much ado about nothing? as casual chatter nee innocent gossip? is THAT why woodward infers ovp — through woodward’s insistence NO ONE intentionally outed plame — was not attempting to “mess” with the cia? how osp, whig, etc. — according to woody — do not suggest a white house attempt to “develop a competing house of spooks” or at least, “marketing” backrooms to strongarm public-congressional opinion on rebranded, repackaged, hyped or distorted products?
really REALLY really?
ignoring woodward as one might flatulence from a once close, now distant acquaintance suffering from irritable bowel syndrome is not unsound. or for those uninfected with btd (beltway transmitted disease), consider woody a pathogen best observed from afar. far afar. this is not to deny a certain insect charm displayed by novaroach and woodypede, as when 2 low-lifes coyly, publicly engage in antennae foreplay recently epitomized in the latest episode of “who’s my source?” think hilton sisters and “who’s my playa?”
otherwise, in the realm of playas, let’s not forget george tenet, he of the faustian bargain to protect his turf in the aftermath of 9/11’s devastating mission failure, only to betray his agency a thousand times over through one foul errand after another.
DXM, what good is impeachment?
A conviction legally removes him from office and snuffs out his ability to pardon off the lesser perps the DoJ prosecutors have worked really hard to develop cases against.
DXM, what good is impeachment? Dubya is only the star who hits his marks (sometimes) and delivers his lines (badly).
From the WaPo:
“By Glenn Kessler
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, December 22, 2005; Page A02
President Bush asserted this week that the news media published a U.S. government leak in 1998 about Osama bin Laden’s use of a satellite phone, alerting the al Qaeda leader to government monitoring and prompting him to abandon the device.
The story of the vicious leak that destroyed a valuable intelligence operation was first reported by a best-selling book, validated by the Sept. 11 commission and then repeated by the president.
A leak alerted Osama bin Laden to telephone surveillance, according to President Bush and others. (AP)
But it appears to be an urban myth.
The al Qaeda leader’s communication to aides via satellite phone had already been reported in 1996 — and the source of the information was another government, the Taliban, which ruled Afghanistan at the time.
The second time a news organization reported on the satellite phone, the source was bin Laden himself.
Causal effects are hard to prove, but other factors could have persuaded bin Laden to turn off his satellite phone in August 1998. A day earlier, the United States had fired dozens of cruise missiles at his training camps, missing him by hours.”
Yeah, those incoming missiles might have given him a clue.
http://www.pollingpoint.com/
Help deliver the message
Stamp Out Chimpy McFlightsuit
Please Click Here for the Media Campaign
Cheney Calls for Stronger Presidential Powers
Vice President Says Bush Has Authority to Spy on Americans
By DEB RIECHMANN, AP
WASHINGTON (Dec. 21) – Vice President Dick Cheney on Tuesday called for “strong and robust” presidential powers, saying executive authority was eroded during the Watergate and Vietnam eras. Some lawmakers objected that President Bush’s decision to spy on Americans to foil terrorists showed he was flexing more muscle than the Constitution allows.
Ya gotta see the ugly, UGLY picture of cheney here:
http://aolsvc.news.aol.com/new…..0009990003
Scary man — even scarier ideas.
I saw 89% a couple of time…
looks like the respondents are really that pissed at chimpy and that his “base” of puppy killin’, kitten hatin’ monsters is not willing to show strong support either.
I am looking for the Bush base. Does anybody see a politically viable base there?
Obviously, chimpy’s “base” is people that want to kill puppies, drown kittents, hate mom, won’t eat apple pies.
I think they may drive chevy trucks, but might prefer nazi fords instead.
msnbc survey at 88% for impeachment….
43238 responses
Karen: “this is very strange not that 88% want impeachment but in the fact the poll is staying exactly the same before. Any thoughts?”
I saw it at 90% briefly, I saw it at 87% briefly. I have been watching it closely.
Great posting, and even the comments are very interesting and lucid. Here is something you will enjoy:
http://imran.com/media/blog/20…..ction.html
and
http://imran.com/media/blog/20…..nment.html
regards
Imran
Now, like carpenters, we need the tool desperately, only to find it’s been blunted from being used last time by hacks with no respect for the craft.
Davis –
I agree with you and have held this point of view for at least the past two years. Also want to say — that sentence is beautifully written, and it’s the perfect image for what’s in play regarding impeachment. They are counting on the idea that the public will have had a bellyful of impeachment from the Clinton years.
I am looking at those poll numbers… I am looking for the Bush base. Does anybody see a politically viable base there?
Bush’s base seems to have evaportated. Now I am sure there are still 12-15% Fascists in the country… Remember there is 1-1/2 in every crowd… But we are seeing some psychology at play here…
The Bush base has been effectively silenced. If you see someone screaming and attacking at this point they look and sound like a fruitbar with sprinkles.
A lot of the core of Bush’s support must be feeling betrayed by their fearless leader. They don’t oppose war and killing, they don’t oppose to cutting medicare, medicaid, food stamps for the poor. They don’t oppose non-assistance for domestic disasters. That’s all cool with their ideology of power, control, money… As long as they feel powerful, in control, on top of things… Given arguments and bullet points with which to beat down the long defeated and demoralized opposition.
But their fearless leader… Is afraid. They no longer command an unopposed policy machine in the Senate. The courts are wary, there is dissent. There are prosecutors sniffing around the WH and the lower House of Congress… It’s not reported well, but the DoJ put a prosecutor on Halliburton a few weeks ago, and another Prosecutor was sent to Iraq to trail that missing 9 billion.
Everybody here is still afraid that by hook or by crook these people are going to continue to control our country. But now it’s not just us… We are in the majority, buy any and every poll… We are in the majority.
Looking at that impeachment poll… I would say a lot of people who were straddling the fence, just jumped over.
The gooper base, the Bush base… Is now feeling like we have been… They have not been soundly railroaded in an election (wait… didn’t Dems sweep a red state in the last election?)
Gooper who are left supporting the party, and Bush are supporting a criminal ideology. They have criminal minds, they are law breaking Fascists.
That’s the base we have to attack.
That’s what I am going to start calling them in my letters. Criminals, supporting criminal ideology.
Crime… It’s about crime, and criminals, and criminal ideology.
Please Click Here for the Media Campaign
This MSNBC poll has stayed at exactly 88% for five or so hours now..at least everytime Ihave looked at it..this is very strange not that 88% want impeachment but in the fact the poll is staying exactly the same before. Any thoughts?
Mary,
Anna Livia wrote a book, Relatively Norma, in which ALL the male characters are named John. It’s screamingly funny. And sometimes you just have to laugh at the old boys’ network….
WRT impeachment, it has always been my intention that there was no serious expectation on the part of Gingrich & Co that Clinton would ever be removed from office, but that the real target of the operation was the impeachment process itself.
Having been carried out successfully against Nixon — who jumped before he could be pushed — and threatened against Reagan — only the forebearance of the Democrats at the time prevented at least the committee work on impeachment — it was clear that the impeachment process was far more likely to claim Republican victims than Democratic ones. (The taste for high crimes as opposed to low ones seems to be party-linked.)
Clinton’s impeachment was a joke — but in the process the whole notion of impeachment became a joke as well.
Now, like carpenters, we need the tool desperately, only to find it’s been blunted from being used last time by hacks with no respect for the craft.
Thanks Wilson.
Too many Roberts, Robertsons, James, Johns Pats etc. for me to keep straight.
classified briefing has been called by the presiding judge of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court to address concerns about the legality of President Bush’s domestic spying programs, according to a story set for Thursday’s edition of The Washington Post, RAW STORY has learned.
#
Several members of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court said in interviews that they want to know why the administration believed secretly listening in on telephone calls and reading e-mails of U.S. citizens without court authorization was legal. Some of the judges said they are particularly concerned that information gleaned from the president’s eavesdropping program may have been improperly used to gain authorized wiretaps from their court.
“The questions are obvious,” said U.S. District Judge Dee Benson of Utah. “What have you been doing, and how might it effect the reliability and credibility of the information we’re getting in our court?”
Interesting eh what?
Nice addition to the “file” of creepiness, marclord, thank!
Anonymous–done your homework. The only errors were in spelling.
Herbert “Bert” Walker controlled Smith and Wesson. The brownshirts in the streets of 1920s Germany were armed with Smith and Wesson revolvers, which they got for free from Fritz Thyssen (of Thyssen/Krupp), who got them wholesale from Walker.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10562904/
Do you believe President Bush’s actions justify impeachment? *
40962 responses
Yes, between the secret spying, the deceptions leading to war and more, there is plenty to justify putting him on trial.
88%
No, like any president, he has made a few missteps, but nothing approaching “high crimes and misdemeanors.”
4%
No, the man has done absolutely nothing wrong. Impeachment would just be a political lynching.
7%
I don’t know.
1%
yup…one and the same BUT he is resigning only from the FISA Court stint. He is remaining a Judge.
Is the Judge Robertson that is resigning from the FISA court this same Judge Robertson?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..4Nov8.html
http://www.observer.com/politics_joeconason.asp
This may have been posted already. Call for impeachment.
An interesting sidelight of the judgement against Bush in the Padilla case is that one of the three judges who handed down the decision was Michael Luttig, one of Bush’s top candidates to replace O’Connor.
Cynical that I am, my first thought was, this was Luttig’s way of saying “GFY” to Bush for bypassing him not once, but twice. My second thought was, however much you vet a prospective judge’s past, you cannot always predict which way he/she is going to decide on a particular case or issue. I bet the WH thought they had this guy in their pocket.
Seitz — thanks, my spelling is for shit and that one would be embarassing :)
That’s Matt Welch, with a ‘c’.
Creepiness Factors Surrounding the Bush Clan
or
Tricky Dick Was Bush-League Compared to Chimpy
I am sure it will offend some, just one interpretation of history. Lets just look at the “creepiness factors” here.
The Bush family fortune did not come from oil — it came from financing the Nazis in WW I. There was an investigation (official record) and I believe some assets were frozen and even seized.
In fact, some say the Prescotts and other powerful elites were actually behind Hitler’s rise to power in Germany. Think about this – it is a fact that the propaganda techniques had their roots in America. Was Hitler an evil genius or a stupid puppet — anyone else see some scary possibilities here.
GeorgeÂ’s grandfather, Prescott is responsible for bringing Richard Nixon into politics, set him up, and provided direction and support.
George I was involved with the CIA many years before being its director under Gerald Ford. He was involved with the Bay of Pigs. Some believe he has connections, direct or indirect, with JFK assassination. If you do not accept the Warren Commission, and most Americans don’t, then the murder of an elected president was nothing less than a coup d’etat. It is a verified fact, that the rest of the world accepts though it was never given the press it deserved, that chimpy did not win in 2000 – another coup d’tat?
If you think the JFK case is convoluted and full of lies – check of the RFK murder! Most certainly this paved the way for tricky dick to get into the Whitehouse (remember, this is Prescott’s main man). Isn’t this, in many ways, a coup too? While we’re at it – Martin Luther King’s murder was the result of a conspiracy – at least that is what a judge and jury decided when they heard the evidence. How come the rest of America never heard the evidence?
Nixon could not have possibly resigned over the Watergate burglary — this is minor league stuff, especially by today’s standards. What possibly could have been on that 18-minute gap that cannot be recovered with today’s technology? You know that you cannot actually erase your hard-drive this clean. A secretary certainly did not erase these tapes in this matter by herself. No — this is not a direct Bush thing, unless there was direct, indirect involvement with JFK murder. Any other speculation as to what was on that tape?
The Reagan assassination attempt was done by the son of a close bush family friend — while Ronald ran as an aggressive, “reform” type in 1980, he became a passive “hands-off” delegate after the assassination attempt. Coincidence — Nancy Reagan could not stand the Bushes.
If you can accept that their was Bush involvement with the CIA and perhaps even the Reagan assassination attempt, then please look at this link:
http://www.mackwhite.com/lennon.html
Neil Bush was a major player in the Savings and Loan scandal — cost us billions. He told congress that he received million dollar loans that were “forgiven” and that this “happens all the time.” Does anyone else think this makes chimpy’s Social Security con more reprehensible?
Bush Sr. was having breakfast with Bakr bin Laden, brother of Osama, the morning of 9/11, at a Carlyle Group shareholders meeting.
The Bush administration was specifically warned about planes being used as weapons and that “Bin Ladin Determined to Attack US” yet they claimed “who could have known??
The Bush administration was specifically warned about the need to rebuild NOLA levees and was specifically warned about Hurricane Katrina, yet they claimed “who could have known?”
Is it possible that the Bush family has connections to some of the most disturbing events in the past 100 years?
I humbly present this for discussion only, not as fact – “Gemstone” files style, seeking to promote dialog. Much of this would never be verifiable if true – run these topics through your favorite “search engine,” see what you find, decide for your self, and share your ideas.
Nixon, a president that was going to win re-election by a landslike, was brought down by a burglarly a Watergate?
LOL
This story never made any sense and doesn’t make any more today — the public was never alloweed to hear what the real story here was.
Woodward was and is a political hack — nixon, who was brought into politics by chimpy’s grandfather, was a tool of the military industrial complex. The “power elite” that installed him simply decided he had to go.
Why — who knows. The forces behind nixon were and his ultimate downfall were never going to say.
Yes, nixon was a bad man that would have loved to had the opportunity to pull half the crap chimpy got away with — no wonder chimpy’s administration is led by nixon holdovers.
What could the military industrial complex possibly have wanted to eliminate nixon for?
Think about it:
*JFK was killed, a coup de tat
*LBJ was run out of office
*Nixon was run out of office
*Ford, a patsy on the warren commission (admitted “magic bullet” was a hoax), was never elected, he served to pardon nixon.
*Carter was brought down too by the Iran hostage crisis — it is a fact that reagan and his “enablers” manufacted that crisis (bloodless coup de tat?)
*Reagan was a senile actor, An assassination attept (which would have made chimpy’s dad president) almost succeeded (we were never told how close to death reagan was). He finished his term a senile, docile figure.
*Chimpy’s dad — brought down on by a tax increase, got the power elite pissed at him. Remember him puking at the feet of a japanese high official?
*Clinton — they screwed with him for 8 years and only found a blow job. Why don’t the same MSM and political pundits want to know more about gay prostitute gannon/guckert and his numerous “overnights”
*Chimpy did not directly steal 2 elections, the power elite behind him did and then swept in a culture of corruption.
And woodward is some type of “genius” reporter?
LOL
Give me a break!
Something that keeps coming up, for me, as I consider the recent rash of “NSA wiretaps = Echelon II” threads, is that the great majority of Americans already believe, at some deep, mythic level, that “the CIA” scans every email and listens in on every word of every telephone conversation. I heard this folk-belief voiced quite frequently, in the immediate wake of 9-11, and associated it with that particular strain of New World Order, black helicopters, pending UN invasion paranoia that Chris Carter milked so successfully for The X-Files. So the actual scandalous “reveal”, in our NSA wiretap story, may not have that galvanizing an effect on the dead frog of the American body politic. There’s a meme that looks too much like it, already firmly in place in our popular culture: “The CIA reads your email. Everybody knows that”
OTTAWA – Group sex among consenting adults is neither prostitution nor a threat to society, the Supreme Court of Canada ruled on Wednesday as it lifted a ban on so-called “swingers” clubs.
In a ruling that radically changes the way courts determine what poses a threat to the population, the top court threw out the conviction of a Montreal man who ran a club where members could have group sex in a private room behind locked doors
So there ya go– yer free to do a Clusterfuck in Canada– May be on the president’s list of places to visit.
Everyone, on the right and left, seems to have underestimated how clever Fitzgerald
Not Me ;)
I called Fitzgerald right on the money from the day he threw Judy Miller in jail to let her rot for awhile. He fed her green balogna twice a day… And did it in good conscience.
I was in Illinois when he brought the Ryan machine down… I listened to all the local wags blow off his work, the investigation. Not a single person told be Fitz was going to bring the entire state captiol down. I watched some beautiful plays. He may be the top prosecutor in the country, certainly in the top 5. He has a photographic memory, and he can quote statutes on the fly… He knows the law, he knows perps. He’s a machine.
FISA info
http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/doj/fisa/
Sorry for the double post– the “publish button was hanging up- or something.
WASHINGTON (Reuters) – U.S. Senate leaders reached a bipartisan agreement on Wednesday to extend for six months key provisions of the anti-terrorism USA Patriot Act set to expire in 10 days.
The accord, to be voted on later on Wednesday, would provide time for Congress to try to resolve differences over safeguards for civil liberties before making most of the provisions the Bush administration deems necessary for its war on terror permanent.
Democrats and Republicans who helped negotiate the deal voiced confidence that the White House and House of Representatives would give needed approvals.
Initially passed after the September 11, 2001, attacks, the Patriot Act expanded the authority of the federal government to conduct secret searches, obtain private records, intercept telephone calls and take other action in the effort to track down suspected terrorists.
Earlier on Wednesday, 52 of the 100 senators, including eight Republicans, signed a letter in support of a Democratic-led bid to extend expiring provisions for just three months to provide time to resolve differences.
Senate leaders, who had earlier opposed any such short-term deal, agreed to the six-month extension following talks during much of the day.
The battle has been complicated by the recent disclosure that shortly after the September 11 attacks Bush authorized spying on communications by Americans with suspected terrorist ties without a warrant.
Bush brushed aside criticism of his aggressive tactics and, earlier on Wednesday, accused Senate Democrats of putting the United States at risk by blocking renewal of the Patriot Act.
Bush made no mention of the four senators in his Republican Party — Chuck Hagel of Nebraska, Larry Craig of Idaho, John Sununu of New Hampshire and Lisa Murkowski of Alaska — who joined most Democrats last week to block the bill with a procedural hurdle.
Rueters
Is Clusterfuck going to back down again?– he’s a pussy when anyone really challenges him- only aggressive against the powerless.
WASHINGTON (Reuters) – U.S. Senate leaders reached a bipartisan agreement on Wednesday to extend for six months key provisions of the anti-terrorism USA Patriot Act set to expire in 10 days.
The accord, to be voted on later on Wednesday, would provide time for Congress to try to resolve differences over safeguards for civil liberties before making most of the provisions the Bush administration deems necessary for its war on terror permanent.
Democrats and Republicans who helped negotiate the deal voiced confidence that the White House and House of Representatives would give needed approvals.
Initially passed after the September 11, 2001, attacks, the Patriot Act expanded the authority of the federal government to conduct secret searches, obtain private records, intercept telephone calls and take other action in the effort to track down suspected terrorists.
Earlier on Wednesday, 52 of the 100 senators, including eight Republicans, signed a letter in support of a Democratic-led bid to extend expiring provisions for just three months to provide time to resolve differences.
Senate leaders, who had earlier opposed any such short-term deal, agreed to the six-month extension following talks during much of the day.
The battle has been complicated by the recent disclosure that shortly after the September 11 attacks Bush authorized spying on communications by Americans with suspected terrorist ties without a warrant.
Bush brushed aside criticism of his aggressive tactics and, earlier on Wednesday, accused Senate Democrats of putting the United States at risk by blocking renewal of the Patriot Act.
Bush made no mention of the four senators in his Republican Party — Chuck Hagel of Nebraska, Larry Craig of Idaho, John Sununu of New Hampshire and Lisa Murkowski of Alaska — who joined most Democrats last week to block the bill with a procedural hurdle.
Rueters
Is Clusterfuck going to back down again– he’s a pussy when anyone really challenges him- only aggressive against the powerless.
Secret spy court judges to discuss concerns on legality
of Bush’s domestic spying program; Developing…
This up on Raw Story
Now this could be interesting- don’t know exactly how they are going to do this- or what they can do with their decision when they reach it-
Wonder if there is something in the legislation that set up the court that gives them some power in this.
Anyone know?
Is Prof around?
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/arti…..038;nl=fix
Bush’s God
The Fitzgerald investigation is more damaging.
Everyone, on the right and left, seems to have underestimated how clever Fitzgerald was not to get an original indictment that involved classified information.
This current case is legally worse, but it’s politcally problematic, if not handled properly – Also. the sad fact is that an element of the populace has been somewhat degraded by Bush & Co, and do not seem to mind to that Bush ignores the Const. They are the blood & soil patriots, rather than the normal patriots. They have grown in size.
That Woodward deemed the Bushites worthy of his respect- rather than as a nest of vipers to be exposed and destroyed- is proof enough that he is, at heart, a deluded shmuck. Anyone who fails to draw a bead on their breed of cat by the age of (say) 25 is a goddamn fool. A goddamn fool, or one of them.
In Woodward’s case, who really cares but the man himself?
wonderful image, Jane, and it seems entirely plausible that Woodward doesn’t want to see the USA brought down by a secret Cheney govt. Not too many people would vote Yes to that, come to think of it.
And as for the (currently) 88% in favour of impeaching Bush online poll…I take it very seriously indeed. What’s more, I interpret it as a sign that the country is about to reject, big time, the ‘Bush-prays-to-God=Bush-has-a-hotline-to-God=Bush-is-the-son-of-God=Bush-can-do-whatever-he-wants’ image that the Repugs have pushed for yea these many years (and that gives Bush such a thrill). The lovely thing about human beings is that they only want an omnipotent deity close at hand for short periods of time…after a while we usually tell ‘em (the omnipotent deity) to bugger off and leave us to our own damn lives. We’ll acknowledge you once or twice a year, but beyond that we don’t actually want you meddling in our daily lives. I think Bush may have overdone the ‘I’m-omnipotent-therefore-I-can-do-whatever’ line. 2006 is looking up!
Woodward still seems like a typist to me–one, furthermore, who is awed by power and perhaps has been secretly lobotomized. (Probably Dick Cheney has a special method of removing brain tissue while appearing to whisper in the unwary listener’s ear. That would explain quite a lot.)
Maybe I don’t give Woodward enough credit. But if he truly cared about the issue of government secrecy, wouldn’t he be working his butt off to reveal truth, instead of picking cocktail weenie bits from between his teeth?
I imagine there’s a big difference between lawyers in general and former prosecutors.
ooops, only 237 have law degrees…
The majority of Congresscritters are lawyers…
This ‘liberal’ has never wanted “Iraq to fail”.
I hoped against hope from 9/11 on that this administration would not fuck up the world my daughter will have to live in.
Adam–I quite agree with you, because this time the defense has stipulated to the facts. A well-written brief for the prosecution, and any former prosecutors on the R side of the aisle are simply not going to sleep at night. And in the House, we only need a dozen such of them to wake up and do the right thing in the morning.
Not on woodward but on secret government and the evils thereof
http://www.attytood.com/
http://www.counterpunch.org/lindorff12202005.html
They can bullshit the public on arcane policy matters, but not on this.
Is this is more synchronicity or am I the last to connect the dots of the day.
I think there is a concensus of the cluefull, regardless of rightward/leftward leaning, that this administration has FUCKED UP…BIG TIME.
Report Card time should have come in 2004, but has somehow been deferred to the year after the election (still in time for midterm madness),
Afghanastan: C-
Iraq: D-
Katrina Response: F
Oil Prices: C-
Balanced Budget: F
Pact with America Compliance: F
Education Reforms: D
War on Terror: C
Same Sex Marriage Ammendment: F
Abortion Restrictions: D
No matter what your political inclination, BushCo is FAILING
Which doesn’t buy them a lot of latitude with the “we’re only conducting surveillance needed to prevent Al Quaida attacks – trus us” meme.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10562904#survey
That could truly be an honest result generated because the people responding are properly informed.
Please Click Here for the Media Campaign
Do help with the Media Campaign. Write Letters, use the Impeachment word. Sigh petitions, and help spread the link around: email, post it about!!!
Thank you :)
I haven’t seen much comment on Woodward’s ominous comment at the Harvard dinner reported by The Crimson. When asked if he was worried that he had been manipulated by the White House, he said something like “I would worry. I would really worry.” What the hell is that about? Is it part of Jane’s white knight scenario? Help!
… how much do I care that he tells the Harvard Crimson that “Mr. X” does not work in the administration?
For those who do care, I wasted some time analyzing Woodward’s comments yesterday.
I don’t guarantee that it’s worth your time. :-)
Woodward’s book, Plan of Attack, was favorable enough to this administration that the Bush/Cheney/Satan/2004 campaign committee recommended it officially. Kiss of death…
I am sick of this bullshit talking point that “liberals” want Iraq to fail.
Its a slighly less controlling regime talking point that “liberals” support terrorist.
These people are so stupid. I live in a swing state and have spoken with many different folks that can be painted with many different labels. Most are pissed, or if they support Bush claim to be “appathethic”. In any case I have yet to meet anyone who even has a slight aroma of wanting the US to fail.
From what little I’ve seen of Woodward, he strikes me as being not really bright enough to take in all the stuff he’s been allowed to see.
That’s dangerous, because that makes him vulnerable to being played, and I think he’s being played by all sorts of people who stroke his ego and give him tidbits in return for his reputation.
I hope you’re right Jane, we need all the soldiers we can muster in this fight to restore the Republic.
Maybe he’s still a spook after all these years, and along with the other professionals, he distrusts this Administration immensely and will make a difference. Personally, I don’t buy it.
Woodward isn’t a very good journalist..
Let’s ignore him!
O/T — something I meant to post a couple of threads ago until I got distracted.
The MSNBC impeachment poll is significant, not so much for its results (who knows what could be skewing them) as for the simple fact of its existence on a mainstream news website.
I really think that the domestic spying story has more long-term traction, and poses more of a threat to Bush, than any of the other scandals thus far — with the very possible exception of the Plame case. Fitzgerald’s investigation, however, is unfolding much slower than the Congressional reaction to the NSA story might.
I haven’t seen much on how the three big scandals (Domestic spying, Plame and Abramoff) might play into one another. My thoughts are that if the Plame and Abramoff investigations do the kind of damage we think they probably will, then you have:
-a nearly-crippled president with little to no influence over his party
-a group of congressional Republicans terrified that anyone who’s up for election will be tarred with the Abramoff brush in the campaigns.
These two factors, I think, make impeachment a plausible scenario, if things really play out this way.
Jane, If Woodward is a good guy in this all — really trying to save us all from secret government, Why has he been so damn ineffectual? Has he just lost sight of the creeping evil secretness? Or is he hoping for one last glorious, history-making stunner; produced by him (an perhaps also about him)? If it is the latter, then perhaps it explains his antagonism for Fitzgerald — Woodward is about to be scooped by a –
say it –
prosecutor.
No Jane…he isn’t capable of discriminating between which is the legitimate and which is the secret government. His whole life has been a lie, he is a chiffon elephant.
Fitzy!
timba!