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	<title>Comments on: From the Juggernaut That Is Biden 2008</title>
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		<title>By: marquer</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2005/12/21/from-the-juggernaut-that-is-biden-2008/#comment-46869</link>
		<dc:creator>marquer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2005/12/21/from-the-juggernaut-that-is-biden-2008/#comment-46869</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;This thread is stale, but in the interests of informational hygiene, a quick correction.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Bob Adams listed as follows:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;i&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Look at the recent Presidents to see the trend:&lt;br /&gt;George W. Clusterfuck - governor of TX&lt;br /&gt;Bill Clinton - governor of AK&lt;br /&gt;Geo. HW Bush - VP under Reagan, before that he was Senator from CT 1952-1960, but that was over nearly 30 years before he ran for President…not many contemporary voting issues to deal with&lt;br /&gt;Ronald Reagan - governor of CA&lt;br /&gt;Jimmy Carter - governor of GA&lt;br /&gt;Gerald Ford - not even elected&lt;br /&gt;Richard Nixon - WP under Ike, and again, a senator nearly 30 years before being elected&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Good lord, this is so wrong, it might have come from Dubya’s White House.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Bill Clinton was the governor of Arkansas (AR), not Alaska (AK).&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;George Herbert Walker Bush, the father of Dim Son, did not in fact serve as a Senator from CT. That would be, instead, GHWB’s father. GHWB had as his previous federal service a Texas congressional seat held over two terms from 1966 to 1971 (the better to get Dubya that safe slot in the Texas Air Guard during Vietnam). &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;GHWB did in fact run for the Senate twice in TX. In 1964, he ran as a vocal opponent of the Civil Rights Act of ‘64. Ralph Yarborough beat him. In 1970, he ran again, having toned down the rhetoric a bit. Lloyd Bentsen won that time.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;GHWB went on to chair the Republican National Committee and to serve as DCI at the Central Intelligence Agency before running for President in 1980 (and, famously, referring to the program espoused by his primary opponent Ronald Reagan as “voodoo economics”).&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Nixon indeed was a Senator before being elected President, though not, as Bob avers, “nearly 30 years” before.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Tricky Dick, then in the Senate, was elected to the Vice Presidency, with Ike at the top of the ticket, in 1952.  Nixon took office as VP in January 1953. He ran for President and won in 1968, taking office in 1969. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;1969-1953 = 16 years, not 30.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;–&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This thread is stale, but in the interests of informational hygiene, a quick correction.</p>
<p>Bob Adams listed as follows:<br /><i><br />Look at the recent Presidents to see the trend:<br />George W. Clusterfuck &#8211; governor of TX<br />Bill Clinton &#8211; governor of AK<br />Geo. HW Bush &#8211; VP under Reagan, before that he was Senator from CT 1952-1960, but that was over nearly 30 years before he ran for President…not many contemporary voting issues to deal with<br />Ronald Reagan &#8211; governor of CA<br />Jimmy Carter &#8211; governor of GA<br />Gerald Ford &#8211; not even elected<br />Richard Nixon &#8211; WP under Ike, and again, a senator nearly 30 years before being elected<br /></i></p>
<p>Good lord, this is so wrong, it might have come from Dubya’s White House.</p>
<p>Bill Clinton was the governor of Arkansas (AR), not Alaska (AK).</p>
<p>George Herbert Walker Bush, the father of Dim Son, did not in fact serve as a Senator from CT. That would be, instead, GHWB’s father. GHWB had as his previous federal service a Texas congressional seat held over two terms from 1966 to 1971 (the better to get Dubya that safe slot in the Texas Air Guard during Vietnam). </p>
<p>GHWB did in fact run for the Senate twice in TX. In 1964, he ran as a vocal opponent of the Civil Rights Act of ‘64. Ralph Yarborough beat him. In 1970, he ran again, having toned down the rhetoric a bit. Lloyd Bentsen won that time.</p>
<p>GHWB went on to chair the Republican National Committee and to serve as DCI at the Central Intelligence Agency before running for President in 1980 (and, famously, referring to the program espoused by his primary opponent Ronald Reagan as “voodoo economics”).</p>
<p>Nixon indeed was a Senator before being elected President, though not, as Bob avers, “nearly 30 years” before.</p>
<p>Tricky Dick, then in the Senate, was elected to the Vice Presidency, with Ike at the top of the ticket, in 1952.  Nixon took office as VP in January 1953. He ran for President and won in 1968, taking office in 1969. </p>
<p>1969-1953 = 16 years, not 30.</p>
<p>–</p>
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		<title>By: Phoenix Woman</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2005/12/21/from-the-juggernaut-that-is-biden-2008/#comment-46870</link>
		<dc:creator>Phoenix Woman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://phoenixwoman.blogspot.com/2005/06/clueless-joe.html&quot;&gt;http://phoenixwoman.blogspot.c.....s-joe.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://phoenixwoman.blogspot.com/2005/06/clueless-joe.html">http://phoenixwoman.blogspot.c&#8230;..s-joe.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: dAVE</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2005/12/21/from-the-juggernaut-that-is-biden-2008/#comment-46871</link>
		<dc:creator>dAVE</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;karen &gt; curiosity….i just read about ‘em.  also, had nothing to contribute to the Biden conversation…maybe i’m just in love w/ the sound of myself typing…&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>karen &gt; curiosity….i just read about ‘em.  also, had nothing to contribute to the Biden conversation…maybe i’m just in love w/ the sound of myself typing…</p>
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		<title>By: Urbannomad</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2005/12/21/from-the-juggernaut-that-is-biden-2008/#comment-46872</link>
		<dc:creator>Urbannomad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;This is funny…&lt;br /&gt;Jane why even bother. This guy is a joke!!!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is funny…<br />Jane why even bother. This guy is a joke!!!</p>
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		<title>By: JJB</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2005/12/21/from-the-juggernaut-that-is-biden-2008/#comment-46873</link>
		<dc:creator>JJB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Alvord:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Biden is probably touching up his hair (what little there is of it), he’s 63 years old.   He’s used to dye it red, but has let it go naturally silver in recent years, and will probably do that sort of blonde highlight thing people do to make it look as if they haven’t gone totally gray.  George Will seems to use this process, although he won’t allow any gray to show, vain little thing that he is.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;BTW, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.joebiden.com/&quot;&gt;here’s a link to Biden’s website&lt;/a&gt; for all those eager to volunteer or contribute to his campaign (I can tell there’s a whole bunch of you here).  MBNA, DuPont and Wilmington Trust can’t be expected to pay for everything.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Just as an aside, I lived in northern Delaware for 6 years, and I despise Biden.  He has no backbone whatsoever, nor any realistic sense of his limitations, intellectually or characterwise.  He would be a disaster as President, but I don’t believe he has of chance of winning the nomination, and his campaign should provide some very amusing moments before its inevitable flameout.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alvord:</p>
<p>Biden is probably touching up his hair (what little there is of it), he’s 63 years old.   He’s used to dye it red, but has let it go naturally silver in recent years, and will probably do that sort of blonde highlight thing people do to make it look as if they haven’t gone totally gray.  George Will seems to use this process, although he won’t allow any gray to show, vain little thing that he is.</p>
<p>BTW, <a href="http://www.joebiden.com/">here’s a link to Biden’s website</a> for all those eager to volunteer or contribute to his campaign (I can tell there’s a whole bunch of you here).  MBNA, DuPont and Wilmington Trust can’t be expected to pay for everything.</p>
<p>Just as an aside, I lived in northern Delaware for 6 years, and I despise Biden.  He has no backbone whatsoever, nor any realistic sense of his limitations, intellectually or characterwise.  He would be a disaster as President, but I don’t believe he has of chance of winning the nomination, and his campaign should provide some very amusing moments before its inevitable flameout.</p>
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		<title>By: Davis X. Machina</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2005/12/21/from-the-juggernaut-that-is-biden-2008/#comment-46874</link>
		<dc:creator>Davis X. Machina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2005/12/21/from-the-juggernaut-that-is-biden-2008/#comment-46874</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Taters:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Gustav von A. : Tadzio::Joe Biden : White House&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Taters:</p>
<p>Gustav von A. : Tadzio::Joe Biden : White House</p>
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		<title>By: Alvord</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2005/12/21/from-the-juggernaut-that-is-biden-2008/#comment-46875</link>
		<dc:creator>Alvord</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Has Biden dyed his hair? When I saw him on Hardball his hair looked blonder than I remembered it.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Has Biden dyed his hair? When I saw him on Hardball his hair looked blonder than I remembered it.</p>
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		<title>By: DrBB</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2005/12/21/from-the-juggernaut-that-is-biden-2008/#comment-46876</link>
		<dc:creator>DrBB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2005/12/21/from-the-juggernaut-that-is-biden-2008/#comment-46876</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;And anudda thing: So is the “Democratic candidate looking extremely idiotic in a uniform of some sort” now an absolutely mandatory photo-op stop in the campaign intinerary? &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I mean, if you’re going to be a candidate run entirely by your consultants, couldn’t you at least hire ones who will tell you not to put on that helmet and climb into the tank, please don’t put on that ridiculous tyvek containment suit with the blue booties, and for godsake don’t put a flack vest on over your blue blazer?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;How do these nimrods ever get elected in the first place, given that they apparently lack the political instincts of a candidate for junior high student council? &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;“Just bein’ me,” Joe thinks. Checks the mirror. Blue wool all bunched and sticking out. “Senator Reporting-For-Duty! Heh heh. Yesireebob. Not too shabby!” &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Agh. Please. Somebody. Just shoot me now.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And anudda thing: So is the “Democratic candidate looking extremely idiotic in a uniform of some sort” now an absolutely mandatory photo-op stop in the campaign intinerary? </p>
<p>I mean, if you’re going to be a candidate run entirely by your consultants, couldn’t you at least hire ones who will tell you not to put on that helmet and climb into the tank, please don’t put on that ridiculous tyvek containment suit with the blue booties, and for godsake don’t put a flack vest on over your blue blazer?</p>
<p>How do these nimrods ever get elected in the first place, given that they apparently lack the political instincts of a candidate for junior high student council? </p>
<p>“Just bein’ me,” Joe thinks. Checks the mirror. Blue wool all bunched and sticking out. “Senator Reporting-For-Duty! Heh heh. Yesireebob. Not too shabby!” </p>
<p>Agh. Please. Somebody. Just shoot me now.</p>
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		<title>By: kitty</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2005/12/21/from-the-juggernaut-that-is-biden-2008/#comment-46877</link>
		<dc:creator>kitty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://firedoglake.com/2005/12/21/from-the-juggernaut-that-is-biden-2008/#comment-46877</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Brooks is none too swift, but he ain;t a racist.  I think he was referring tot he importation of latino gangs that is scarey AND real.  But he didn;t say that and ended up sounding like one.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Goodness, am I defending Bobo?&lt;br /&gt;Color me chagrined.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brooks is none too swift, but he ain;t a racist.  I think he was referring tot he importation of latino gangs that is scarey AND real.  But he didn;t say that and ended up sounding like one.</p>
<p>Goodness, am I defending Bobo?<br />Color me chagrined.</p>
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		<title>By: Rayne</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2005/12/21/from-the-juggernaut-that-is-biden-2008/#comment-46878</link>
		<dc:creator>Rayne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;i&gt;Adam &#124; 12.22.05 - 2:05 am&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Great link you furnished, Adam, to that WSJ article, recommended reading.  Grampa is right on this one.  The split in the Repug party defines the swing niche that we need to target.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Dems need to be talking very clearly about the desire for EFFECTIVE government, not larger government.  With all of the technology we have available to us (and I’m not talking about the NSA), we should be able to streamline and improve the efficiency and effectiveness of government across the board, reducing our costs to operate.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I don’t want MORE government, I want the government we have to do its damned job and I want it to be transparent to the entire public on everything except personal records and national security.  Katrina, for example — the government failed to do its job, even though it had far more than adequate warning.  The warning system in advance of the storm was absolutely transparent; we could all of us see it coming.  But once the storm came and went, we could see nothing happening; we had to rely on the mainstream media and on leaks to tell us what was happening.  That is utter bullsh*t.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The one agency that appeared to operate effectively — mostly because it hasn’t been ravaged by cronyism — is CDC.  They were calling for volunteers through their network, issuing advisories as the storm hit, continuing advisories afterwards.  They filled in the gaps where the EPA and OSHA didn’t, advising about chemical and biological exposures for the benefit of healthcare workers and volunteers.  &lt;i&gt;This is exactly what I want from the rest of our government.&lt;/i&gt;  I want to know at the end of the day that my tax dollars are actually doing work for the benefit of this entire country, not some smarmy *sshole playing golf in Scotland on my dime.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Pick any other topic.  Like Iraq — are we getting our money’s worth there?  Should we be enlarging any single government agency or offering in any way if we aren’t absolutely certain the current money isn’t being used to its absolute maximum efficiency?  Should we be doing anything for which we are not adequately tooled (Humvees without adequate armor, for example)?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Which takes me back to marketing and execution.  This is the message: &lt;i&gt;we need a competent, effective government.&lt;/i&gt;  And now we need a team that can execute this; we absolutely cannot afford a team on board, even if it’s a Dem team, if they can’t execute better than the current team.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Ugh.  Biden.  No way in hell.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Adam | 12.22.05 &#8211; 2:05 am</i></p>
<p>Great link you furnished, Adam, to that WSJ article, recommended reading.  Grampa is right on this one.  The split in the Repug party defines the swing niche that we need to target.</p>
<p>Dems need to be talking very clearly about the desire for EFFECTIVE government, not larger government.  With all of the technology we have available to us (and I’m not talking about the NSA), we should be able to streamline and improve the efficiency and effectiveness of government across the board, reducing our costs to operate.  </p>
<p>I don’t want MORE government, I want the government we have to do its damned job and I want it to be transparent to the entire public on everything except personal records and national security.  Katrina, for example — the government failed to do its job, even though it had far more than adequate warning.  The warning system in advance of the storm was absolutely transparent; we could all of us see it coming.  But once the storm came and went, we could see nothing happening; we had to rely on the mainstream media and on leaks to tell us what was happening.  That is utter bullsh*t.</p>
<p>The one agency that appeared to operate effectively — mostly because it hasn’t been ravaged by cronyism — is CDC.  They were calling for volunteers through their network, issuing advisories as the storm hit, continuing advisories afterwards.  They filled in the gaps where the EPA and OSHA didn’t, advising about chemical and biological exposures for the benefit of healthcare workers and volunteers.  <i>This is exactly what I want from the rest of our government.</i>  I want to know at the end of the day that my tax dollars are actually doing work for the benefit of this entire country, not some smarmy *sshole playing golf in Scotland on my dime.</p>
<p>Pick any other topic.  Like Iraq — are we getting our money’s worth there?  Should we be enlarging any single government agency or offering in any way if we aren’t absolutely certain the current money isn’t being used to its absolute maximum efficiency?  Should we be doing anything for which we are not adequately tooled (Humvees without adequate armor, for example)?</p>
<p>Which takes me back to marketing and execution.  This is the message: <i>we need a competent, effective government.</i>  And now we need a team that can execute this; we absolutely cannot afford a team on board, even if it’s a Dem team, if they can’t execute better than the current team.</p>
<p>Ugh.  Biden.  No way in hell.</p>
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