Pacha, I agree with you!

Viveca say “I began spending a little more time than usual with Luskin as I tried to keep track of the investigation.”

hhhmmnnnnnnn……a little more time than usual.

Sure, she did. It was done this way to confuse her about the dates.

Ok, I’ve read the article.

The latest date her conversation with Luskin could have occurred is May, according to her testimony.

This allegedly prompted Luslin to perform the search that produced the Hadley email, which would have been responsive to previous subpoenas for evidence but had not been produced.

The discovery of the Hadley email is what allegedly prompted Rove to recall his conversation with Cooper.

After Fitzgerald gets Vovak on the record, he returns to the grand jury, as it was the disclosure of her conversation with Luskin on just before Fitzmas which may have kept Karl form being indicted then.

Bottom lines, as discussed here before:

1. The disclosure of the Vovak conversation was a last ditch effort to avoid indictment. If it had been a promising defense, it would have come forth sooner.

2. It took a lot of time for the email to come forward. Its elusiveness is highly suspicious. I imagine Fitzgerald asked Luskin more about why it was so hard to find, considering it had been written by Karl form his government account in the days surrounding the outing of Plame by Bob Novak.

3. Fitzgerald’s prompt return to the grand jury once the Vovak stuff got nailed down suggests Karl is the next, immediate target. Note Luskin’s non-leaky silence on that score.

4. Vovak’s lack of memory is curious, but ultimately inconsequential as far as Fitzgerald’s investigation goes. She is in trouble at Time, but not, probably, in legal trouble. Her next attorney is probably an employment issues specialist.

5. All of this suggests that Karl is shortly to be indicted. The only question now is whether or not plea negotiations will be more productive this time than they were just before Fitzmas.

Triciawrites–Silly little Viveca might be surprised when her statement about the logs is refuted by Rove aide Susan Ralson, who may say she was ordered not to log the call.

Sounds like Fitzgerald felt sorry for this ditz Viveca, or, maybe not.

Top link at HuffPo to Newsweek Cover Story “Bush in the Bubble”

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10…../newsweek/

Karen, the article reads to me like a busted kid crying over spilled milk. I think the main problem Novak has is that Luskin told Fitz.

Vacuous little Viveca seems to accept without question Luskin’s contention that he went through the thousands of emails and found the lucky one. She also blindly accepts what Rover and Cooper allegedly discussed and why Cooper’s call wasn’t logged. What drek!

I was too young to vote for McCarthy, but I remember the shining hope he was for we who hated the war.

A poet, for gosh sakes!

Even back then, I felt despair knowing he would never get elected president.

Prof: I was just going to post that! You beat me to it. Another great quote by our bLeader.

Does anyone else think the writing style of Viveca’s entire TIME article sounds like a 5th grade student wrote it?

This is the outstanding veteran reporter as that stupid David Corn so extolled her virtues? With her writing abilities, she shouldn’t even have been chosen as water cooler girl at TIME. What a flibbertygibbet dork she is!

I found this interesting though…..

(Cooper called via the White House switchboard, which may be why there is no record.)

Could she have given us a nugget, or am I reading too much into this?

If Novak’s testimony had been exculpatory for Rove, Fitz. would not have gone back to the grand jury last week.

The phone log thing is the key.

The failure to disclose to Time her involvement with Luskin until the call for her second “meeting” with Fitz is damning.
Then she waits 2 days to notify her bureau chief.

From http://www.capitolhillblue.com/dtbio.asp (Dec. 9), as noted by http://www.theleftcoaster.com/ this morning:

GOP leaders told Bush that his hardcore push to renew the more onerous provisions of the act could further alienate conservatives . . .

“I don’t give a goddamn,” Bush retorted. “I’m the President and the Commander-in-Chief. Do it my way.”

“Mr. President,” one aide in the meeting said. “There is a valid case that the provisions in this law undermine the Constitution.”

“Stop throwing the Constitution in my face,” Bush screamed back. “It’s just a goddamned piece of paper!”

[Author Doug Thompson] talked to three people present for the meeting that day and they all confirm that the President of the United States called the Constitution “a goddamned piece of paper.”

What the ! What kind of an article is that…..I don’t agree it looks good for Rover, but she is really out of it! All this I can’t remember garbage from all of these reporters….I can’t wait to read what Redd and Jane have to say….I have mixed feelings about the “mutual leave of absense agreement” for one reason only….ROVER….but I guess all of these MSM folk who were Rovers attack dogs deserve whatever they get..although she never wrote a puff article for Rover….I think the fear of Rover around DC has made these reporters impotent…I am confused about this????

Yeah, “by mutual agreement”, Viveca is on a leave of absence from TIME.

Maybe there should be mandatory ethics lessons/classes for reporters? This woman has been a reporter for YEARS AND YEARS and didn’t seem to think it necessary to tell her bosses that she was testifying to Fitzgerald on Nov. 20.

These national reporters just seem to run wild, doing whatever they wish, with no one to control them.

Maybe something like this will make her remember…….

To Whom it may concern,

I work for a civilian air cargo carrier that provides civilian lift capability for the Air Mobility Command. As such we operate many flights to and from Kuwait to Ramstein Germany and the United States.

There is a situation that is greatly disturbing to me regarding these flights. On occasion we carry Human Remains (HR) on board our aircraft from Ramstein to Dover AFB. I know that this is happening because we have a requirement to notify Dover three hours prior to arrival to advise when we have HR onboard the aircraft. While I am quite proud to work for a carrier that provides direct support to our troops I also find it quite disgraceful that we as a country provide the transport of the remains of our sons and daughters that lost their lives onboard a general cargo civilian aircraft. When we as a country can not provide these men and women who paid the most highest price to protect our country a military transport aircraft to return their remains to the country they chose to serve and protect we should hang our heads in shame. I know that there is probably some “financial justification” for this however I strongly believe that this is not only an outrage but also a tremendous travesty of honor that their remains are shipped in this matter. Is the military ashamed to provide these men, women and their families the honor that they truly deserve. Yes I am sure that they provide the proper military honors upon the arrival of the aircraft in Dover but come on, why not a military aircraft instead of a civilian contracted flight. It just is not the same to me nor should it be to anyone that believes in the honor that these men and women justly deserve.

If you have any questions please feel free to contact me. I do ask that you keep my name anonymous as disclosing this information could cause me my position with my company. I will say that my company is only one of many that provides civilian lift capability for AMC. If we have done this on our flights how many of the other carriers have done so also.

Respectfully
Kevin McKinley

http://www.iraqwarveterans.org/kevin.htm

It’s amazing she can’t remember the date. Something so shocking occurs in conversation and you are a reporter and you can’t remember what you did that night when you got home that can relate to the exact date. Geez…even I could do that. Maybe the time off will help her.

hmmm…..by “mutual agreement” V. Novak is currently on a leave of absence.
Never to return?

Sorry, it wasn’t a GJ appearance, it was a deposition in Fitzgerald’s office, her second time in his office, on December 8.

Viveca conveniently neglects to call this meeting an under-oath deposition.

So Viveca Novak, like certain other reporters, is “confused” and “can’t remember” exact dates of meeting with Luskin on five separate occasions on this issue. She didn’t tell anyone at TIME, even her editors about her
involvement until November 20, 2005, even though she was queried by Fitzgerald for the first time in his office on November 10! She finally told them just before her Grand Jury testimony.

In her article, she almost sounds like a senile elderly nursing home
resident. Amazing how these longtime trained reporters don’t take notes and don’t recall things!

Novak’s article is frustratingly unrevealing, but it looks good for Rove, at first glance.

Alison, you wrote…. “wonder how many will come after us who will remember justice and sanity and peace.” Sigh ~ not many…my sons, 20 and 28 are intelligent, wise….and so skeptical/cynical/disgusted with our system. Can only hope that perhaps their generation will channel that into positive change. My 28 year old called yesterday to mourn the loss of Richard Pryor….and to ask me my memories of McCarthy; then he reminded me not to miss Jon and the Daily Show this week to maintain my sanity….Oh and too? Said he’s grown fond of lurking here on FDL when time allows; says it restores his faith.

Thanks people……

Here’s the link to the TIME magazine Viveca Novak article, which just came up:

http://www.time.com/time/magaz…..80,00.html

He was a hell of a man.

I was 12 in 1968. I watched everything happening in Chicago on theTV. I was so shocked and appalled.

The previous spring, I had already been beaten up in my high school for wearing a black armband against the war. McCarthy was my man!

Now I am almost 50, and it seems like many folks at FDL are old enough to have been inspired by Clean Gene.

I wonder how many will come after us who will remember justice and sanity and peace.

We are the old left now. I yearn for a NEW new left.

I was one of the idealists who campaigned for Gene in Wisconsin that late winter of 68.

We worked out of the old Wisconsin Hotel in downtown Milwaukee. We all thought after LBJ left the race that Bobby Kennedy or Hubert H would be elected. The assassination and the scenes from the Democrat Convention made it nearly impossible for a Democrat to be elected.

Richard Nixon played the “silent majority” like a master.

I’ve been thinking about those times lately. Vietnam and Iraq are looking more and more alike. The irony is Nixon would have been smarter than putting the country into this no win situation.

I’ll take #2 for $500. Mack

ccmask
which one of these quotes was spoken by a crack addled idiot?

“This is, I say, the time for all good men not to go to the aid of their party, but to come to the aid of their country.” Eugene McCarthy

“They want the federal government controlling Social Security like it’s some kind of federal program.” —George W. Bush

“When you’re on fire, people will get out of your way.” Richard Pryor
.

Shez, I’ve read that a plan for a draft is already in place. The plan is to bump up the eligibility by one year to 20. If you’re in school, you keep your draft number for what it was when you turned 20 and become eligible upon graduation. Don’t remember anything about females, though.

I feel strongly that one thing dems should not associate themselves with is endorsing or voting for a draft. I know Charlie Rangel was trying to make a point, but that should be the end of it.

Early look for vovnovka piece yields zero.

HHMMMMMMMMM?????

Have a wonderful day.

You go Sharkbabe! We’re going to have to coin more words to express our collective disgust for those reptilian draconian monsters.

Maggie I know what you mean. I remember the FEAR everytime one of the guys turned old enough and had to register. I wore a copper POW/MIA bracelet for the longest time and still remember the name on it.

Now when I run into people who blindly support this war I bluntly tell them if they don’t look out the draft will come back and they better kiss their daughters goodbye too this time. Seems to stun and shake them up a tad, no?

Cheers back at ya, suin.

McCarthy and the events at the ‘68 convention were just a little ahead of me. Way too young to vote (at that time, you had to be 21.) I’d been following RFK’s candidacy – his assassination was devastating.

Regarding Vietnam, 1968 was the high water mark for troop numbers: 536,100 and 300,000 of which were draftees.

Personally, I was spared facing the draft when I would have become eligible for it in the 1970 lottery by my second X chromosome, a fact I immensely underappreciated until I saw the movie The Deer Hunter in 1978. I really related to Christopher Walken’s character and it hit me like a ton of bricks — there but for an X chromosome go I.

For the XYs born on my birthday, their draft lottery number was 207.

It was huge what McCarthy did.

His impact lives on in all of us and our many millions of neighbors who sense that Cheney and his braindead puppet are big fat steaming fucked up piles of shit and Iraq is wrong, wrong, wrong.

Man, Gene McCarthy and Richard Pryor. Talk about your giant humans.

Nice post siun, I appreciate this community immensely for the same reasons, it’s a comfortable level of maturity as a whole. Rest in sweet peace Gene McCarthy, you were a great man.

I’m wondering how the marchers on Guantanamo did yesterday, I just checked the link for the group someone put up, no updates yet. From living there I have a vested interest in a special place in my heart for what is happening. It upsets me that beautiful unique base is being defiled with a torture camp.

Can you imagine being able to sit in an outdoor theatre with a full screen, seats, concession stand but no walls or ceiling, under the stars and watch 2001: A Space Odyssey? A Bob Hope USO show was a big highlight for us too. The school was in the spanish style with low roofs, the rooms ringing an open central courtyard filled with plants, trees, and sculptures.

It was a magical place to live with the best bread I’ve tasted by far. One month the shipment of flour was slightly buggy, we had to hold the slices up to the light and pick out half a dozen tiny specks but we didn’t care, it was too delicious to waste, we really had no choice. When we came back from Cuba everyone thought we were crazy to be on the lookout for poisonous spitting frogs in the ground.

During the crisis they had cut off the water supply, the base had to build a water treatment plant (before us families could come down there), cool it down to tepid then send it back out which made for mighty quick showers before it turned scalding hot. When we got back we stayed at my aunt’s house for a week, the look on her face when we asked if there was enough cold water to take a shower with we laugh about to this day.

I pray the marchers stay safe and make progress. Actually I hope they make the biggest stink in the world, protest like hell and it turns into another major international incident to bring as much pressure as possible upon BushCo, while still staying safe, they are in peril.

i also hated those goddamn robin egg sheel blue helmets that the Chicago cops wore…i don’t know what it was, but something about that color blue on the heads of those sonsabitches was really depressing…crap, i hadn’t thought about that in years…

sorry

siun 0 so, a toast this cold Chicago nite to those of us who were here

—–

a toast back at cha

ps

i hate Hubert Humphrey

ah, what a nite…Wednesday at the Demo convention..the buses pulling in loaded with all the delegates who had just nominated that sell out failure of a politician, Hubert Humphrey…who’d have figured that HHH would end up being the seemingly permanent role model for Demo polticians…and those mutherfuggers have been losing ever since..

i will never forget those goddamn buses pulling in…and the stench of defeat that accompanied them…defeat for all the people in Grant Park..defeat for all the sellouts on the delegate buses…defeat…

still…a lot of people learned to hate defeat that night…one can cling to that

Ah hah, Tryggth. I think I found it. There are 5 golf courses in udon. Your config and location fits the Victory Park Country Club

tryggth,

Refering to your linked google earth map from the previous thread on capital punishment:–

It’s hard to tell for sure at 1 inch:2000 ft but I think you may be onto something interesting here after all :).. but it’s not a black site. judging from the scale, configuration, location (proximity to a major roadway) and landscape features, there is a very good chance that the whale-like landscape configuration in your map is a walled subdivision/country club/resort surrounding an 18 hole golf course :) They have many of those in Thailand.

Of course, having a country club site plan and a golf course does not preclude your photo from being a black site. ‘cept the 19th hole wouldn’t be the club house.. rather the torture chamber.. hehe.. :p

toasting w/ya siun and grampa.
McCarthy was the first political defeat i have a memory of. i took it hard as did many of my friends in high school. all those moratoriums, carpooling to berkeley.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10…..from/RS.1/

Bush’s Bubble World – Cover story

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4517962.stm

Here’s a link to the oil depot explosion

I’ll drink to that, siun.

OT: LaTimes has a nice article on the French intelligence community’s attempts to warn the U.S. off the Niger story:

http://www.latimes.com/news/na…..-headlines

(OT – major explosions in/near an oil depot 40km from London – no word yet of cause)

One thing I really appreciate about FDL is that a larger than normal percentage of FDLfanatics are post-50 in years as am I. It’s a treat to have mature voices as a major contributing force – and also, IMHO, helps to add a historical awareness to the discussion which is often sorely lacking in the political net world.

so, a toast this cold Chicago nite to those of us who were here or closely watching during the days of rage and Gene McCarthy

Valley Girl–ROTFL. Tell us how you really feel about crooked pinky.

My Grandmother was a woman before her time. She supported Adlai Stevenson and Eugene McCarthy in the 60’s. She was against the Vietnam War, played Dupilcate Bridge, drank beer, and would tell us, “If you want to read a dirty story, read a French novel.” I did not comprehend all that she said then, but her influence is here with me now. Eugene McCarthy’s death brings it all back.

That’s messed up… Half my post was deleted, and that link is not working (server error at their end)…

https://www.ajc.com/opinion/userreg/ursignup/signup.jsp?UrUsecase=800100&SendBackURL=%2Fopinion%2Fcontent%2Fopinion%2Fletters%2Fsendletter.html

That is a link to the letters form (you have to register) at the major Atlanta daily… But since Reed as a candidate has national significance (was on the cover of Time for example) I would send your letter out down the entire media list.

Me3-=Who should I write letters to regarding Ralph Reed’s candidacy for Lt. Gov of Georgia and the allegations he is linked to money laundering?

Karen – I am not picky about my letters out. I write one, and I sent it out across the board. There is also a letter assistance form provided by the Dems.

30339 – Altanta Zip Code (generic)

http://www.democrats.org/page/…..stoeditors

if I might be the alter ego of bbqueen here, just for a mo, let me say: crooked pinky you suck so very bad

I was pretty much disgusted with all electoral politics in those days, focusing more on direct action. However, lots of people I knew decided to get “clean for Gene,” and headed up to New Hampshire to help with the campaign. When the primary came to Connecticut, where we were living, the Democratic machine made it difficult to vote for anyone but approved candidates. As I recall, one had to write in the names, not of the candidate, but of the electors for the candidate. The only way one could vote other than a straight party-approved ticket was to pull the party lever, and then un-vote any positions for which a different candidate was desired.

Anyway, 1968 saw a huge wave of new voter registrations, mostly students wanting to vote for McCarthy. The local pols challenged most of them, and generally succeeded in preventing McCarthy voters from voting. Democracy in action. It’s no wonder so many people took to the streets.

If President Bush means it when he says we will stay and fight in Iraq as long as he is president, there is only one thing that can prevent a Democratic victory in 2008. That is if the Democrats repeat their mistake of 1968 and nominate a candidate who is unwilling to run against the war.

Let’s hope we at least learned that lesson.
(From XOFF article above.)

There is something we can do!

The Chicago convention, and the beatings of some of my close friends who attended, dimmed my interest in electoral politics for quite a while but not my admiration for that wonderful man.

So there I am, in Chicago, working for a law firm between second and third years in law school, and there’s this Convention going on downtown. The year is 1968. The Vietnam War is going strong. Young men are being drafted. The streets and city parks are filled with protesters. Gene McCarthy is challenging LBJ’s VP, Hubert Humphrey, for the nomination — a quixotic quest, but one that has galvanized youth. Volkswagen Bugs are festooned with plastic decals shaped like a daisy and bearing two words: “Gene McCarthy.” http://ispy.mnhs.org/00000008/00008252.JPG

I meet a young woman in a coffee shop who is also out to see the sights. We wander over to a city park where Alan Ginsberg is chanting “Om…om…om…” in a circle of long-haired young people. Afterwards, a reporter interviews him, and then then gives him a solidarity handshake.

We notice some policemen lining up along one side of the park. They take off their badges and stuff them in their pockets. We figure it’s time to leave, so head out of the park. After all, we’re just observers.

Soon the streets are filled with people running, running, shouting “pigs!” and the police are in hot pursuit, swinging clubs. (The Kerner Commission later would label it a “police riot.”)

The girl and I jump in her VW Bug (with a McCarthy flower decal on the back) and she drives away. We soon find ourself near the Convention Center. Suddenly the air is filled with tear gas and people are running, running. Someone bangs on the window.

“Hey, can you give a lift?!” We swing our doors open and 2 or 3 protestors cram into the back seat.

“Thanks!” And then, after a pause, “Hey, aren’t you XX?” I hear my name. “From YY University?”

“Uh, yeah….” I reply. What kind of small world is this?

“Well what are YOU doing HERE?”

While I am contemplating that strange question, I realize that anyone who knew me from college days 5 years earlier would know that in 1963 I was a strong Goldwater advocate — campaigning, writing weekly columns for the student newspaper.

Indeed, with a McCarthy flower sticker on the back of a VW Bug, what WAS I doing here?

1968 marked the end of my active Republicanism. What WAS I doing “there” — not in the streets of Chicago, but registered in that Party?

It took a few years more but ultimately I re-registered as an Independent and then, in a move that would make my father turn in his grave, as a Democrat.

So thanks, Gene McCarthy. You were part of my awakening.

You, and that VW Bug with the flower sticker, and that voice from the back seat.

Prof

crooked pinky…we pissed you off, that’s certainly something! Now that you’re pissed, what next? Any ideas?

Just between trolls, how hungry are you for change?

Cheech Wizard is still hanging around!

Sorry about being so negative

1968…Forward into the past!

LBJ’s decision came after an embarrassing Democratic primary showing in New Hampshire, where Eugene McCarthy, a little-known Senator from Minnesota, got 40 per cent of the vote as an antiwar candidate. McCarthy’s success got Bobby Kennedy into the race, and it got Johnson out. Kennedy was assassinated, Hubert Humphrey, LBJ’s vice-president, beat McCarthy for the nomination, and Richard Nixon, with a secret plan to end the war, became president.

Beware of republicans with secret plans…

Thanks. As I said in another thread, Eugene McCarthy was my first vote for president. Write in.

I still remember how proud I felt that day. Alas…

Everyone talks about how greatt so and so is but nobody does a mother fuking thing about it. Fuck you guys.

GSD–I am still chuckling about your “holiday wienie ornament” imagery.

I remember when I was a freshman in college, getting into a student news conference with Eugene McCarthy. There was a question and answer session and he was taking one more question and called on me. My father had predicted that Johnson wouldn’t run again and I asked what he thought of that possibility. He sort of laughed and said that if Johnson didn’t run and one other person didn’t (he meant Bobby Kennedy) he (McCarthy) would be in good shape. Of course both Johnson who *did* refuse to run again, and Kennedy who was murdered were both knocked out of the race and it still didn’t help McCarthy.

Me3-=Who should I write letters to regarding Ralph Reed’s candidacy for Lt. Gov of Georgia and the allegations he is linked to money laundering?

I had the honor of helping with an event that Eugene McCarthy spoke at during the early days of his presidential run. Sponsored by a local liberal group, they asked a group of us high school students to serve as security for the event since they did not trust the town police to actually protect him. I remember standing backstage, checking the audience coming in and wondering what we would do if trouble really erupted? My boyfriend and I decided to carefully practice an escape route to get Sen. McCarthy out fast since we were a) pacifists and b) not exactly bodyguard material!

All such thoughts quickly vanished as I watched him speak – what an honorable, truth-speaking man. I was too young to vote but worked hard for his primary campaign and he gave me hope for the democratic process.

The Chicago convention, and the beatings of some of my close friends who attended, dimmed my interest in electoral politics for quite a while but not my admiration for that wonderful man.

Step back on the Wheel soon, Gene, we need you more than ever!

I recall my profound disappointment that this intelligent, peace-loving man could not be elected president. As I am now disappointed–and betrayed–by something like 35 to 40 percent of the American electorate who still, STILL, think George Bush is a great leader.

http://fusioner.proboards60.co…..1131129004

^^^ Media Resources ^^^

Please – Send Letters!!!

As a native Minnesotan, there will always be a place in my memory for Gene, he spent a couple hours in our livingroom when I was a boy…my Dad was an English teacher and a DFLer…what a professional human being.

Well, Fitz-like, certainly.

Thank You, Gene.

Fitz on!

I stood just yards away from McCarthy as he addressed an arena full of students at the University of Pennsylvania during his 1968 presidential campaign. We were inspired and filled with hope. There seems to be no one like him in today’s world of spin and phoniness.

karen – I have my fingers and toes crossed.

From Vivnak’s statment, it looks to me that she’s been very used by a so-called “friend.” I actually feel sorry for her. She was duped, made some poor judgments and has probably destroyed her own career, (with an assist from Luskin and Rove).

Vivnak slipped when she told Luskin about the Time rumor, but she was probably just fishing for information herself (as should be expected). And why would she think that Rove would lie to his lawyer about what, from Cooper’s leaked e-mail, seemed like an extremely significant conversation?

Obviously, after Vivnak realized she spilled the beans, she should have told Time. (But I sense that it’s probably better for us that she didn’t because Time and Rove were in league.)

If you compare Vivnak’s statement with those of Miller and Woodward, I think there’s a huge difference in the level of frankness/disclosure. She just sounds like a human being making a confession and realizing she’s made some mistakes.

As someone who doesn’t remember dates myself, I have no problem with her poor memory of dates.

Oh I was “clean for Gene” that cold cold winter of 1967-68 – my first participatory political act. A weekend in Milwaukee doing I do not remember what in his service. Did not see the Man, but was momentarily frozen in the blue headlights of Paul Newman’s eyes, as he was there to help too.

Later in Philadelphia, Gene came to speak and read some poems. After, clutching my copy of Other Things and the Aardvark I approached him trembling – he was so tall, charismatic, dignified – and asked for his signature, and offered up a comment about one of the poems. He looked at me and smiled: “I usually take the advice of my friends about my poetry.” Got that book with his best wishes addressed to me and signed by him right here at my side.

Thank you Eugene McCarthy. May you rest in peace.

OhioBlue–my money says BEFORE Christmas. Let’s hope,

Pach: This whole timeline thing is so confusing. I commend you for trying to parse it.

One thing that is apparent is how much of Luskin is just spin, spin, spin, and how quiet it is when he doesn’t have anything to spin.

I wonder if Fitz would indict Rover before or after Christmas – you know, wanting to keep Christ in Christmas and all?

What a morning in Salem, Oregon. Sunny and cold. Then I read about
1. Secret laws
2. “The constitution is only a goddamn piece of paper.”
3. Shipping our soldiers remains home as freight.
4. France and the Niger uranium
5. etc.

I’m breaking out the Wild Turkey at 10am. It’s just too much to cope with sometimes.

Bring on the NFL, maybe I can forget for just a bit.

haven’t gotten to the Novak article yet – slept late after all the mature toasting of last night … what good tales were told! I am glad to have such comrades here!

Susan – for the New New Left, check the Hip Hop Convention and the League of Pissed Off Voters … the League has targeted specific local elections and is doing amazing work – they give me hope

http://www.indyvoter.org/
(and if you’re in or near Toledo or Columbus, OH they could use help!)

http://www.hiphopconvention.org/

also Russell Simmon’s Hip Hop Summit Action Network has been doing great work in urban neighborhoods – bringing hip hop stars and organizers into community colleges, etc and getting hip hop youth involved in neighborhood organizing – their www site is outdated but their mission statement is awesome: http://www.hiphopsummitactionn…..?pageid=27

Read the Bubble article … most striking is their mention of W having won the war in Afghanistan — when did that happen? and aren’t they following the news these days?

Pach – thanks for the timeline information. I wonder how Fitz would know to ask about Vivnak about the March date. It could have come from Luskin, or perhaps it could have come from somewhere else, like restaurant or charge card records.

Ohioblue: No, you’re not confused. I fucked up. Heh.

There’s a glaring error in my analyses of pollyusa’s material:

These news disclosures happened in 2005, but the time period for Rove’s rolling disclosures happened in 2004.

Duh. I knew it seemd too exculpatory for Rove, the way I was reading it.

Yes, but didn’t V Novak meet with Luskin in Jan, March, May 2004 – not 2005? Or am I confused here?

New thread up ;)

A more salient date from pollyusa’s diary which I missed first time through:

# On July 6th, 2005 Cooper gets his waiver.

# The 7/10/05 Newsweek [July, 18 2005 issue] story breaks the contents of the email, that Rove told Cooper about Plame. Here Luskin says Rove has testified 3 times to the GJ. Luskin still isn’t admitting that Rove mentioned Plame or Wilson’s wife.

So the earliest report we have of the Hadley email comes on July 10.

pollyusa has some diaries at kos with some timelines:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/12/7/17343/9545

In this diary she says:

8. The July 16, 2005 AP is the article where Luskin revealed the existence of the Hadley/Rove email.

9. Cooper testified on July 20th and talked about his testimony on 7/24/05 on “Meet the Press”. Luskin as always just ahead of the story finally admits that Rove talked about Plame in the July 23, 2005 WAPO.

Rove has at some point testified that he passed on information about Plame to Cooper, according to two lawyers involved in the case. Rove’s attorney, Robert Luskin, declined to say when Rove gave this testimony.
WAPO 7/23/05

From this I gather that we do not know the exact date the Hadley email was “found” or when it was turned over to Fitzy.

The email is revealed to the press four days before Cooper testified about Rove.

If the Vovak-Luskin conversation occurred in May, and if Luskin produced the email to Fitzy in May or early June, with an offer to bring Rove back to testify again, then perhaps Luskin’s story is plausible.

On the other hand, if you peg the Luskin-Novak conversation to March, as Fitzy’s questions seem to have suggested he was exploring (according to Vovak), then the delay becomes suspicious, even if Luskin produced the email in May or early June.

But, if Luskin produced the email in late June or July, Karl’s potential alibi gets a lot shakier.

The list of D.C. reporters who have NOT sold out to the republicans for money, fame, and, .. um,… really big money, is very short it seems. Even the reporters who are supposed to be on our side end up sipping the poison of republican koolaid.

And David Corn seems to be emulating Bob Woodward in his ‘keep the good stuff for book sales’ reporting..

Viveca Novak Story Up:

http://www.time.com/time/magaz…..80,00.html

Anyone see Meat the Press today? The reporters there pointed out the last time Bush visited New Orleans was early October and not much has been done. FEMA is no longer going to provide housing for evacuees after Jan. 8. They went down the list of things that are wrong at BushCo, calling Bushboy the most isolated president in history.

All this while I am making waffles with strawberries and Dutch Baby pancakes. Anybody know what those are?

I should not double post… But I want to put in here that we had a number of “free” elections in Vietnam… We are building democracy… yada yada yada…

Strange isn’t it?

Is that another word for “corrupt”?

Meanwhile- the spectacle in Iraq continues unabated. Election coming this week- but no one is even speculating on who will win or what the significance of the thing will be..Odd- since this the great Clusterfuck moment- the main event that the whole war was supposedly about… Strange isn’t it?

this stuff reads like a suspense novel.

with no offense whatsover intended I certainly hope Fitzgerald is ‘brighter’ than you guys (and me).

rove and everyone he is covering within his big black cape remind me of worms squirting out of a zombie’s face.

sorry for the gross analogy.

worms=lies, doubletalk, confusion

GSD–Yeah, I think it’s incredible. Remember all the people who were commenting that Viveca was a wonderful trusted experienced TIME reporter?

Don’t forget to add me!me! David Corn to that list. Evidently no one edits Cornhole, either.

http://edstrong.blog-city.com/…..sk_or_.htm

Frank Rich’s Column: IT TAKES A POTEMKIN VILLAGE

Poor Viv,

I shall resume calling her No-Facts.

She realizes that she tipped Luskin off and yet she doesn’t mark it down or take note of it…Coulda been February or maybe May….no perhaps it was March…I found the March date in my alternative datebook that I only use to keep my really private meetings and my mob money figures jotted down in…

Oh yeah and it was in the morning, no in the evening…

Does anyone think that any news from people who cannot keep basic elements of reporting like dates and times in a clearly concise manner is credible.

Viveca, get in line behind Mata Whori Miller and Booby Wayward, you are a member of the inside the beltway, outside the reality based world club.

-GSD

Now I have to get back to hanging weenie ornaments on my tree, the Clinton’s will be here any minute.

Oops. sorry for the double post…and the spelling. Should be “they’re” not “their”. I guess reading Viv’s account made me a little more, oh, casual than usual.

Meta–my feelings exactly. Viveca sounds like a fifth grade student writing about “what I did on my summer vacation, but I don’t remember it”. She has been a TIME reporter for years and years. She is a professional. This is her job. The reporters I know carry tape recorders at all times. They record EVERY phone conversation, even those with their dry cleaner. For this weird senescent ditz Viveca to expect us to believe she didn’t write notes afterward is insulting to her readers. Hell, she doesn’t even remember the dates of her FIVE meetings with Luskin. Maybe it was ten meetings, then.

As I said, my faithful dog Whiskers could have done a better job than Ms. Viveca.

Jane, I posted this toward the end of a thread yesterday (which I’m stupidly doing again today), but an old Time article (by Novak) definitely says Rove’s October, 2004 appearance was his third before the Grand Jury. With Novak’s confusion about dates, when Rove’s second appearance was seems important. Do we know?

“But March was close enough to May that I really didn’t know. “I don’t remember”

Not only can’t Viv write or remember very well, she can’t count. The specific day in March she found was March 1, which is twice as close to January as to May. So why the lean toward May in her piece? Because that helps her, um, “source”. Luskin needs a reason he went back through e-mails in a a somewhat timely fashion. May helps a teensie bit; January not so much.

Meanwhile, I hope we can get Judy, Sooter, Bob and Viv on a very special Dr. Phil. I’m sure their hurting, even if they don’t always acknowledge it.

just– yeah the whole timeline is crucial— someone has probably laid it all out in a past post- but I can’t recall any of it.

Do we know the actual date that the Hadley/Rove e-mail was turned over to Fitz? Or do we only know the date we first heard of it?

When Luskin said to Novak something about the call not appearing on the phone log, that didn’t sound like someone who was surprised to me. It sounded like someone whose defense was being tested.

karen allen — it’s still early. I’m trying to be nice :)

I’ll be on the phone for a bit…

All the Novak testimony provides is the “Eureka” moment that caused Rove to “remember”- but it’s a double edged sword. The most plausible reading is that her conversation told Rove that he was likely to get indicted if he stuck to his story. I think Fitz is just being cautious- and hoping that the whole thing actually leads to more evidence that Rove lied.

V. Chickenbone Novack’s confessional is positively ridiculous. It sounds like a second grade Dick and Jane abstract. A “do-over” ??? Really?? Too late now, honeybun. Yes, you’ve been spending too much time with all the wrong people. Next time, purchase a clue. Or at least take notes. Or maybe read the ones that appear in FIREDOGLAKE.

How can someone with a professional job at a major publication sound like such an incoherent mess? She bothers to recount detail like the reason they drink at a certain bar (”National Cathedral” – thanks for the big fat piece of that particular puzzle. Huh??), but not when or why? (What was she preoccupied with instead??) She’s working a story but can’t piece together an elementary timeline? She feels compelled to say Fitz is an honest, nice guy (oh, really?) and wonders aloud if Rove is lying? Puerile! I understand an impulse toward survival, but do these people have any regard for integrity, truth? That’s some hairball.

Looks like she’s set up base camp at Mount Can’t Find My Way to a Moral Compass. It’s getting crowded over there.

This, to me, only illuninates why Rove chose Luskin for his attorney. From what I have read, Luskin is very astute at publicity in D.C., and does much trying of cases in the public. Rove is not worried about ultimate criminaltiy, he has Bush and the courts as a backup.

Rove needed a public defense. And Luskins connections to people exactly like VivNovak are exactly what Rove needed. Luskin can talk to these people over lunch without suspicions being raised and he can learn all sorts of interesting stuff. And it obviously worked.

People are entranced with power, and Luskin via Rove has it in spades. VivNovak drank in some of their kool aid.

Jane–Corn wasn’t particularly used. But he will say so. Corn has an unquenchable need for attention to himself. Just count all the me’s and I’s in his writing. He is an 18 year old in a 46 year old’s body.

There is still a huge problem, don’t forget, with the amount of time it took to “find” an email Karl wrote mere days before Bob Novak outed Plame – and one which mentions Cooper by name.

Luskin has a firm with plenty of resources and researchers. All of thise evidence was digitally searchable, but even a manual search should have produced it quickly. This is the primary time frame of concern: what was Karl talking and thinking about in the days before and after the story broke?

Luskin’s Rove “alibi” relies on the idea that he did not use people in his firm to helpexplore this evidence, but rather, he did the search himself. Even if that is believable, it could scarecely have taken more than a day or two to find that email.

This is a big, whopping, hairy problem in Luskin’s defense, and since Luskin became a witness, there may be some testimony and questioning about it. Stay tuned.

to me, the Luskin surprise is at how widely known the Rove/Cooper conversation was. If Rove thought Cooper was cooped up and silent, Rove figured he was safe. When Luskin let him know it was common gossip at Time that Rove had leaked to Cooper, then Rove had to try a new coverup…

By the way, it is inconceivable that Rove and Scoots did not have several discussions about their respective testimony with the Grand Jury- although we will probably never find out about it.

If Scoots talks—Rove is history.

Oh man just got off the phone with Redd. Had the Vivac article read to me (with one eye still closed) by the C&L notification service.

We we will have more soon. I think Mr. Corn was used a bit badly.

Pacha – I love your post at 8:31.

Vivnak says that Luskin was surprised when she told him about the scuttlebut at Time that Rove was a Cooper source. Assuming that’s true, there are two possible scenarios: (1) Luskin was surprised because Rove had not told him about the Cooper conversation; or (2) Luskin already knew about the Rove/Cooper conversation, but was surpised that anyone other then Cooper knew about it.

It seems entirely plausible that Vivnak would have assumed that Luskin already knew about the Rove/Cooper exchange. Therefore, when Luskin seemed surprised, Vivnak must have realized she was telling him something he didn’t already know. But did Vivnak think Luskin was surprised because: (1) he hadn’t previously known about the Cooper conversation at all; or (2) because he previously thought that only Rove and Cooper knew about the conversation?

Speculation:
It’s not plausible that Rove had actually forgotten about the Cooper conversation. Consequently, when Luskin reported the Vivnak conversation to Rove, Rove became aware that many people other than Cooper probably knew about the conversation. Up to that point, Rove had been thinking that since Cooper might never testify, the conversation might never be discovered. He didn’t know that Cooper had written an e-mail to his boss about the conversation and that this e-mail had been leaked to others at Time. (Cooper discussed this leaked e-mail in his article.)

At that point, Rove and Luskin both had to wonder whether Fitz had already learned about Rove’s conversation with Cooper from someone other than Cooper (who was still refusing to testify).

After Rove found out that everyone at Time knew about his conversation with Cooper, he must have been angry. I wonder if he called Cooper. If so, Cooper might have described a very watered down version of the e-mail (to which the Rove e-mail corresponds.)

Luskin later stated in an interview that Rove had been “burned” by Cooper because Cooper’s e-mail inflated their conversation. Hmmm.

Yes, but it provides a heaping helping of “reasonable doubt” to Rove’s story (that he may have lied), unfortunatly.

Assuming we are privy to all the relevant evidence Fitzy has gathered, this may be the case. However, I think that’s a low-probability assmption.

That he has returned to the grand jury would suggest there is more we don’t now see.

Coz–

Well- maybe- depends on the dates of Rove’s Grand Jury testimony- which I don’t recollect.

As I recall, Rove told the Grand Jury that he had the discussion with Cooper- but that it was about another subject- correct?

Also- there’s the problem about the call not being logged..

Fitz is in no hurry- he is apparently going to look at every bit of evidence before making a decision- but he could certainly indict on the basis of what he has and let a jury sort it all out. Hope he does..

Atrios points out another aspect of the Vovak confession: Luskin’s spin to the press includes verifiable lies, based on what he knew and when he knew it:

http://atrios.blogspot.com/200…..2980017469

Parenthetically, we are witnessing the emergence of a new genre: the reporter’s confessional piece. Judy Kneepads, Cooper, Booby and now Vovak.

In college we used to term those Sunday morning walks by women with messy hair back to their own dorms the “walk of shame.” Very sexist, I know. But these pieces remind me of that. These “reporters” have been fucked and now everyone knows it. Except for Cooper, it seems, who reported on the White House smear campaign, rather than the smear.

That’s instructive, in a way. Cooper was new to the White House beat. Of them all, he was least an insider.

The perceived value of access is rapidly depreciating. It was an outsider in San Diego, after all, who first busted the Dukester.

My 2 cents before I leave to finish my Holly Shopping is this:

Fitzmas is coming. Fitz will not let us down. He will live up to his name. He exists, Virginia.

And Fitz, if you ever need to get away, I have a nice fishing boat and a couple of extra poles. Sometimes it’s good to get away from all the jazz…….I’ll even cook up one of my famous chickens!
PS: Bring your cat! Tripod (my three-legged cat) and Saddlebags (my extra-fat golden) can also entertain!

“Apparently the memory deficient Novak testimony doesn’t establish that- but it doesn’t disprove it either..”

Yes, but it provides a heaping helping of “reasonable doubt” to Rove’s story (that he may have lied), unfortunatly.

Pach, I think you have written a fairly even-handed assessment of Novak’s role here. I know, for example that if someone calls me in the morning and says – Hey, how about a drink after work – I am unlikely to record it or remember afterwards when it happened.

Looks to me that she was done in by a combination of poor judgement, disorganization, impulsiveness, and fear about the consequences if the conversation should become public knowledge. Certainly, at that point, she already knew what had happened to other reporters caught up in the events surrounding the leak of Plame’s identity.

I can easily see myself making similar misjudgments – Hell, I HAVE made similar professional misjudgments.

“But March was close enough to May that I really didn’t know. “I don’t remember”

Not only can’t Viv write or remember very well, she can’t count. The specific day in March she found was March 1, which is twice as close to January as to May. So why the lean toward May in her piece? Because that helps her, um, “source”. Luskin needs a reason he went back through e-mails in a a somewhat timely fashion. May helps a teensie bit; January not so much.

Meanwhile, I hope we can get Judy, Sooter, Bob and Viv on a very special Dr. Phil. I’m sure their hurting, even if they don’t always acknowledge it.

Viveca-”I was supposed to be the information gatherer.”

bbbbwwwaaaaaaaaa

Saddlebags, my fat golden retriever, just shook her head, while NOTING that today is Sunday, the day she gets a bone.

I want a ball
I want a fresh post
ReddHedd and Jane and a Luskin balloon
And performing baboons and …
Give it to me
NOW!

I’m sure they’re working on something as we speak.

So what’s the deal here? Apparently Luskin told Fitz that he jogged Rove’s memory about the Cooper conversation based on a conversation with Novak. In order for that to be plausible, the Novak discussion had to have occured somewhere between the last time Rove lied to the Grand Jury and the time he showed up and admitted talking to Cooper..

Apparently the memory deficient Novak testimony doesn’t establish that- but it doesn’t disprove it either..

Of course the logical reading of whole affair is that Luskin found out that more people than Cooper knew about the conversation and then decided that Rove’s only chance of escaping the slammer was to suddenly regain his memory. It all comes down to a “I forgot- the dog ate my homework” defense- and Fitz is going to have to decide whether it is likely to wash with a jury…I doubt that it would.

I want a ball
I want a fresh post
ReddHedd and Jane and a Luskin balloon
And performing baboons and …
Give it to me
NOW!

My opening sentence should have read:

Actually, I more or or less find Vovak’s dodgy recollections and calendar entries plausible.

Hi All

I found this part of VNovak’s article interesting.

“I hadn’t believed that I was disclosing anything he didn’t already know. Maybe this was a feint. Maybe his client was lying to him.”

Especially this last sentence “Maybe his client was lying to him.”

susan – I was just about to post the same. The tide is turning. Continuous pressure must be applied. Write letters and keep talking.

Actually, I more or find Vovak’s dodgy recollections and calendar entries plausible.

I’m not a reporter, and so I don’t have the same discipline and training about sources and notes.

But I am a business consultant with some clients who have become friends. One in particular calls me often, and we chat, about business and non-business topics.

Because he has been a good source of referrals to me, I don’t log, chart or charge him for the free consulting advice he inevitably gets in the course of our conversations. Sometimes our conversations lead to new projects for me, and that’s when we put together an agreement for business.

If someone were to ask me to go back and reconstruct what conversations I had with my friend about different subjects, even ones that proved pivotal to his subsequent business decisions, it would not be so easy.

By Vovak’s account, her relationship with Luskin had taken the form more of friend than reporter-source. For years they had been meeting as DC downtown gossips without any particular story in play. Years, over drinks at Cafe Deluxe (I’ve been there). In such a context, I can see how she could have slipped in making her disclosure of Cooper’s Rove connection.

That she did not tell her editor about her gaffe right away solidifies this notion of Luskin as gossip buddy, not source. Unprofessional? Of course. Excusable? No. Understandable, in the sense that we can understand in context how it occurred, without excusing it, yes.

Now, the counterargument to this is that she was aware that Luskin was potentially a source since he was Rove’s attorney. But I tend to think that, by the time in their relationship this came up, she was still doing more fishing and gossiping than reporting.

Of all the things she says in her article, I find her descriptions of her reportorial mindset with Luskin least credible: I think she is trying to cover up here for the fact that she had become wholly compromised by the DC mindset of insiderism, which prevents reporters from doing their jobs.

No, she was not thinking like a reporter at all with Luskin. And that is her greatest shame.

One might argue that, once her gaffe had become clear, and once she observed that her friend seemed surprised, even to the point of calling their conversation “important” at its conclusion, she would have logged the date, just in case. Fair point. But I think she was already far enough gone, and furthermore, never had any reason to expect that the conversation would ever come out.

After all, would Luskin use it? Why? What could she possibly have seen in February, March or May that would lead her to believe that her conversation would ever become public. She had done nothing illegal, in her mind. The thought almost certainly never occurred to her. And she was not going to report on it, because it could embarras her friend Luskin and more importantly, herself.

After all, she may have leaked Cooper’s source to his source’s lawyer, when (possibly) that lawyer did not know about it. No wonder she did not want to tell her boss. She was too compromised to do the right thing, at that point. She kept her mouth shut, tried to forget about it, and never noted the exact date.

Now, it’s entirely possible that Luskin was using her, sounding out her reactions to his statement that Karl had “no Cooper problem” in order to guage the lay of the land. I find that entirely possible, and there are hints in the article that her friendship with Luskin is no longer on sure footing. She describes Luskin as unhappy she is telling her side of the story publicly, but I’m sure she’s not happy Luskin tried to bring her in as a possible Rove alibi: exposing her lack of professionalism, bringing about potential legal jeopardy and possibly ending her career.

from the newsweek article: “Bush has said he does not read the newspapers (actually, he does). “

oh really. then how come a fucking cd had to be compiled of news reports of katrina for him to get a fucking clue. (actually, i believe the only section he reads is the sports section).

18 years old.
‘manning’ the mccarthy office in a small city.
waiting overnight for posters and pamphlets.
they show up about 8:00 a.m.

i deliver them with an ‘older’ university student to some other small city.

details. details.
the main thing is the hope gene mccarthy inspired.

a complex poetic philosophic political mind.
with a great sense of humor.

see ya’ gene.
thanks for everything.
as in ‘really really’ thank you.

Pachacutec….agreed, but (and I should have said this in my post) I took it as another positive sign that the tide is turning somewhat as far as the “attitude” toward bush in the media; it *is* scalding, rightly so, and speaks to the mans’ incompetence and inability to listen to others besides his scary inside circle of manipulators.

You people are amazing ~ but don’t lose sight of the fact that you are also sadly not the norm; it is a unique level of insight and analysis that goes on here…people like you are NOT the problem ~ and articles like the one in Newsweek I think help wake up the portion of the populace that needs their eyes opened further.

Respectfully……

TIME article…

It looks to me like Rove is going to skate unless there’s more that we don’t know about.

The Newsweek cover story about Bush in a Bubble does not forward an idea new to denizens of this blog, but it does add fresh color and detail.

In the end, it’s a rather scalding portrait:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10…../newsweek/

Our reporter with the VIVid memory:

“Fitzgerald wanted to know when this conversation occurred. At that point I had found calendar entries showing that Luskin and I had met in January and in May. . . .

“Fitzgerald had asked that I check a couple of dates in my calendar for meetings with Luskin. One of them, March 1, 2004, checked out. I hadn’t found that one in my first search because I had erroneously entered it as occurring at 5 a.m., not 5 p.m. “

Golly, everybody in DC sure seems challenged when it comes to keeping track of information, using computers, and then searching for information.

So she has some kind of calendar program on her computer, and she didn’t look about the 8 am mark? Wait. That means that she scanned her calendar manually, instead of using a search term like “Luskin.”

So she made calendar entries about after-work drinks appointments, but didn’t keep notes of what happened at them? And these were not purely social occasions. Reporters in the dying cockroach position probably don’t take notes. But those who are spending time with a potential source “as I tried to keep track of the investigation.”? Those are professional drinks.

I’m now looking for Luskin’s and VIVid’s home addresses, to see how they related to the National Cathedral. Don’t know why.

Prof

Pacha, I believe that Rover is capable of anything!…I thought much about emptywheels theory and I think it is entirely possible…..Rover has been involved with many “shady” characters. There was a belief in Texas, at the time of the convictions of the Tex Agriculture men, that Rover had correspondence altered, to help convict them.

karen allen–thanks a lot for your link to Viveca’s article.

PattyLou:

That’s quite possible.

Rove’s character is such that there is no one he does not play for a mark.

He cannot tell the truth. He puts a corkscrew to shame. The truth simply is not in him.

He is where he is professionally because he is the best at what he does, and the best at using deception strategically. Those are the skills he wold rely on to try to escape trouble.

emptywheel thinks he found a way to change the text of the Hadley email. I tend to assume this would be technically too discoverable, and that the email was a CYA deception that lied, but which also effectively conveyed to Hadley, in code, that the seeds they had discussed planting had been successfully planted at Time.

Whether Fitzy already had the Hadley email, I don’t know. It would assume that Rove managed to prevent its production without covering his ass on the other end, via coordination with Hadley. I tend to doubt that. Hadley was most likely the project manager on the effort to plant the Plame/Wilson stories.

KarenAllen, I think you are right…I just can’t believe someone like Luskin would be SO STUPID…oh well…Rover is toast…that is really what matters here…He is an abomination!

Should have been “as the Democratic Party was falling apart over Vietnam.”

Eugene McCarthy is an intriguing figure in US political history. He appeared as a heroic figure in 1968 as the Democratic Party. But how could he have supported Ronald Reagan in 1980? What was that all about? You didn’t need a three-digit IQ to see through Reagan. What happened to the professor there?

PattyLou–I think you are being kind and generous re Luskin. I think he cogently knew exactly what he was doing.

I hope Fitzgerald charges Luskin with perjury, because it appears that he did indeed knowingly “fabricate”. I’ve been saying all along not to underestimate Fitzgerald. I think we now are going to see some more indictments before Christmas.

I still have a poster of Gene McCarthy up in my studio. That was my early political involvement. We were all so excited about him here in Northern California. We wanted him. We didn’t want Bobby Kennedy, whom we thought only followed Gene when it looked safe. Then very shortly thereafter, Bobby got assassinated and everything just fell apart. Gene never regained his momentum.

Fitz. had the email all along from Hadley’s end.

Pacha, I think Rovers inherent criminality affected Luskin…..Rover has been good at covering up his criminal acts for years….after reading Bushes Brain…I have no doubt he somehow got Lusking to engage in criminal behavior without realizing, the consequences.

Auto-Viv-isection shows in TIME how a really careful reporter protects the sources of others in her mag/newspaper:

“I was taken aback that he seemed so surprised. I had been pushing back against what I thought was his attempt to lead me astray. I hadn’t believed that I was disclosing anything he didn’t already know. Maybe this was a feint. Maybe his client was lying to him. But at any rate, I immediately felt uncomfortable. I hadn’t intended to tip Luskin off to anything. I was supposed to be the information gatherer. It’s true that reporters and sources often trade information, but that’s not what this was about. If I could have a do-over, I would have kept my mouth shut; since I didn’t, I wish I had told my bureau chief about the exchange.”

Leaving aside her wish for a “do-over” (does that have anything to do with hair?), can there be any wonderment at her being placed (or, whatever…) on leave by her employer?

It’s fortunate for some number of people that Auto-Viv-isection didn’t become a surgeon, instead of a journalist.

Prof

Behind all this, as many have noted, it seems highly suspicious that the Hadley email was found so late, and also highly suspicious that the call had not been logged.

If it is true, as has been reported and as others have reported, that Ralston has testified that she was asked by Karl not to log the call, then this is evidence of a conscious plan to cover up and obstruct.

And if that is the case, I would expect that Fitzy would have been rather assertive in his questioning of Luskin regarding the non-production of the Hadley email. How did that happen?

I don’t doubt that Karl engaged in cover-up and attempts to bury or destroy evidence. I’m (a little) doubtful that Luskin was a conscious party to this, but stranger things have happened.

The closest person we have today to McCarthy is Murtha, but Murtha is calling for redeployment not withdrawal. If that happens, it will not mollify the Iraqis, for they realize that the U.S. forces would still be in the region, whether over or under or above or beyond the horizon, able to return to Iraq whenever the Americans wish it. When will the Democrats honor McCarthy’s name and call for immediate withdrawal instead of trying to placate the Bush Administration? McCarthy had more courage and integrity and principles than the vast majority of the Democrats today.

ccmask–Yes, Viveca began “spending a little more time than usual” with Luskin, but she can’t quite remember the dates. She didn’t record the meetings, didn’t take notes, and didn’t write anything down afterwards.

My faithful dog Whiskers could have done a better job. Or Sam’s dog Jake.

Pacha, I agree with you!