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	<title>Comments on: What&#8217;s In a Date?</title>
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		<title>By: kant</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2005/12/09/whats-in-a-date/#comment-37571</link>
		<dc:creator>kant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Coorection…&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Rove’s story is that he believed that he and Cooper did not speak &lt;b&gt;about Wilson’s wife… only about Welfare reform… &lt;/b&gt; until he found the Hadley e-mail.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Coorection…</p>
<p>Rove’s story is that he believed that he and Cooper did not speak <b>about Wilson’s wife… only about Welfare reform… </b> until he found the Hadley e-mail.</p>
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		<title>By: kant</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2005/12/09/whats-in-a-date/#comment-37572</link>
		<dc:creator>kant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;I think it makes sense that Luskin is arguing the earlier date.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;I think Rove’s argument goes like this.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;“I knew Cooper thought he had a conversation with me when I first went before the Grand Jury because Luskin told me so.  I signed my waiver of confidentiality and said to the grand jury that I never talked to him about Wilson’s wife before the Novak article came out, because that is what I believed at the time.  I had a memory of a conversation about Welfare Reform, but no memory of a conversation about Wilson’s wife.  &lt;b&gt;That is why I authorized my attorney to say that Cooper was not going to jail because of me.  When it became clear that my testimony was going to conflict with Cooper, I went through my files to see if there was anything which could back up my memory.&lt;/b&gt;  And then we found my e-mail to Hadley.  When we found it I instructed my attorney to bring it to the U.S. Attorney’s attention immediately.”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The key here is the conversation about Welfare reform.  Cooper’s insistence that there was no conversation about Welfare reform during his chat with Rove on July 10, 2003, makes it seem as though Rove was providing cover for the substance of the conversation at the time that he sent the e-mail to Hadley.  I agree Rove is desparate, but his only play is that he believed that he and Cooper did not speak until he found the Hadley e-mail.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;By the way, Fitzgerald will likely point out that he found this e-mail within days of learning that Cooper had sent an e-mail to his editors at Time Magazine.  This really screws Rove.  First, Rove at that moment knows that it is not just his word against Cooper’s.  Second, the contents of the Cooper e-mail, sure makes it look like Rove knows what he is saying is important AND the revelation of the existence and contents of the e-mail makes any recantation damned near impossible because Rove - at the moment of revelation - knows that his perjury will be found out.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it makes sense that Luskin is arguing the earlier date.</p>
<p>I think Rove’s argument goes like this.  </p>
<p>“I knew Cooper thought he had a conversation with me when I first went before the Grand Jury because Luskin told me so.  I signed my waiver of confidentiality and said to the grand jury that I never talked to him about Wilson’s wife before the Novak article came out, because that is what I believed at the time.  I had a memory of a conversation about Welfare Reform, but no memory of a conversation about Wilson’s wife.  <b>That is why I authorized my attorney to say that Cooper was not going to jail because of me.  When it became clear that my testimony was going to conflict with Cooper, I went through my files to see if there was anything which could back up my memory.</b>  And then we found my e-mail to Hadley.  When we found it I instructed my attorney to bring it to the U.S. Attorney’s attention immediately.”</p>
<p>The key here is the conversation about Welfare reform.  Cooper’s insistence that there was no conversation about Welfare reform during his chat with Rove on July 10, 2003, makes it seem as though Rove was providing cover for the substance of the conversation at the time that he sent the e-mail to Hadley.  I agree Rove is desparate, but his only play is that he believed that he and Cooper did not speak until he found the Hadley e-mail.</p>
<p>By the way, Fitzgerald will likely point out that he found this e-mail within days of learning that Cooper had sent an e-mail to his editors at Time Magazine.  This really screws Rove.  First, Rove at that moment knows that it is not just his word against Cooper’s.  Second, the contents of the Cooper e-mail, sure makes it look like Rove knows what he is saying is important AND the revelation of the existence and contents of the e-mail makes any recantation damned near impossible because Rove &#8211; at the moment of revelation &#8211; knows that his perjury will be found out.</p>
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		<title>By: Armando</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2005/12/09/whats-in-a-date/#comment-37573</link>
		<dc:creator>Armando</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;My response:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/12/10/19554/869&quot;&gt;http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/12/10/19554/869&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My response:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/12/10/19554/869">http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/12/10/19554/869</a></p>
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		<title>By: Ron Russell</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2005/12/09/whats-in-a-date/#comment-37574</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron Russell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Oh and by the way, under Title 18, Section 793–failing to Report a negligent disclosure is a seperate violation.  If Rove violated this statute, he would be legally obligated to report it to his superiors.  That would be Andy Card and/or George Bush.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;In such a situation, the next question would be:  What actions did they take or fail to take?&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh and by the way, under Title 18, Section 793–failing to Report a negligent disclosure is a seperate violation.  If Rove violated this statute, he would be legally obligated to report it to his superiors.  That would be Andy Card and/or George Bush.</p>
<p>In such a situation, the next question would be:  What actions did they take or fail to take?</p>
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		<title>By: Ron Russell</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2005/12/09/whats-in-a-date/#comment-37575</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron Russell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;I agree with Quicksilver and have said so before.  Now, that Rover and Luskin are hell bent to prove they didn’t lie, they swear under oath that Rove did leak Plame’s identity to someone not entitled to receive it.  What would make my Fitz-Mas is not a Perjury, Obsturction or Lying to Investigators indictment (although that would be the bow on my Fitzmas Gift)–but charges under Title 18, Sections 793 and 794.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Quicksilver and have said so before.  Now, that Rover and Luskin are hell bent to prove they didn’t lie, they swear under oath that Rove did leak Plame’s identity to someone not entitled to receive it.  What would make my Fitz-Mas is not a Perjury, Obsturction or Lying to Investigators indictment (although that would be the bow on my Fitzmas Gift)–but charges under Title 18, Sections 793 and 794.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2005/12/09/whats-in-a-date/#comment-37576</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Not that anyone is paying attention here anymore, but to add one thing: Jane’s theory depends on the reliability of TIME’s report that Fitzgerald’s subpoena for Novak named May 2004 as the start date for conversations of interest.  I’ve already mentioned that there are rumors of TIME folks unsympathetic to Novak being sources for the Dec. 2 NYT story.  The other thing to recall is that the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.observer.com/printpage.asp?iid=12008&amp;ic=News+Story+1&quot;&gt;NY Observer&lt;/a&gt; reported a few days ago that the TIME story appeared without much help from Novak, and seemingly not with her best interests at heart.  So it may be less implausible than it seems that TIME would not have direct access to Novak’s subpoena, at least when writing that article.  And/or maybe someone heard Novak say something about a May 2004 conversation, which may be when she believes it took place, and mistakenly thought the subpoena specified May 2004 as the starting date.  Or maybe TIME got confused, and the subpoena just identifies May 2004 as the date of one relevant conversation, not necessarily the first.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not that anyone is paying attention here anymore, but to add one thing: Jane’s theory depends on the reliability of TIME’s report that Fitzgerald’s subpoena for Novak named May 2004 as the start date for conversations of interest.  I’ve already mentioned that there are rumors of TIME folks unsympathetic to Novak being sources for the Dec. 2 NYT story.  The other thing to recall is that the <a href="http://www.observer.com/printpage.asp?iid=12008&amp;ic=News+Story+1">NY Observer</a> reported a few days ago that the TIME story appeared without much help from Novak, and seemingly not with her best interests at heart.  So it may be less implausible than it seems that TIME would not have direct access to Novak’s subpoena, at least when writing that article.  And/or maybe someone heard Novak say something about a May 2004 conversation, which may be when she believes it took place, and mistakenly thought the subpoena specified May 2004 as the starting date.  Or maybe TIME got confused, and the subpoena just identifies May 2004 as the date of one relevant conversation, not necessarily the first.</p>
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		<title>By: DougJ</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2005/12/09/whats-in-a-date/#comment-37577</link>
		<dc:creator>DougJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;I know this blog has a big lovefest with Tom Maguire of JustOneMinute but check out this thread to see what a loser Maguire &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://justoneminute.typepad.com/main/2005/12/dems_in_disarra.html#comments&quot;&gt;http://justoneminute.typepad.c.....l#comments&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;That pansy banned me for making him look stupid.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know this blog has a big lovefest with Tom Maguire of JustOneMinute but check out this thread to see what a loser Maguire </p>
<p><a href="http://justoneminute.typepad.com/main/2005/12/dems_in_disarra.html#comments">http://justoneminute.typepad.c&#8230;..l#comments</a></p>
<p>That pansy banned me for making him look stupid.</p>
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		<title>By: Jack O&#8217;Roses</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2005/12/09/whats-in-a-date/#comment-37578</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack O&#8217;Roses</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Yeah but Jane, what difference does it make, really, which version is true? Even if the conversation happened before Cooper’s testimony, Rove would still have been tipped off, and would  reasonably have anticipated a Cooper appearance spilling the beans. You dont really think Rove would have rested content without worrying about Cooper blowing his cover until actually finding out that Cooper was going to testify?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;This way, Rove can *claim* as follows: that Vivac made an inadvertent comment to Luskin that Rove didnt think anything of (she could have just been flexing her muscles) until AFTER Cooper’s testimony, at which time he (or Luskin) realized that he needed to look into any potential evidence of statements he may have made but doesnt remember. Then they pull out  the Hadley email, which could easily have been altered after the fact. Plus, this way it doesnt LOOK LIKE Rove changed his story as a result of being tipped off by Vivac- it makes it more logically plausible that  he just didnt remember the (original) Cooper conversation (which the Hadley email “shows” was innocent and harmless) until Cooper was forced to testify. This last point is crucial because it calls into question a very suspicious-looking timeline, resulting in what Luskin probably feels (hopes) is a lack of evidence beyond a reasonable doubt.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah but Jane, what difference does it make, really, which version is true? Even if the conversation happened before Cooper’s testimony, Rove would still have been tipped off, and would  reasonably have anticipated a Cooper appearance spilling the beans. You dont really think Rove would have rested content without worrying about Cooper blowing his cover until actually finding out that Cooper was going to testify?</p>
<p>This way, Rove can *claim* as follows: that Vivac made an inadvertent comment to Luskin that Rove didnt think anything of (she could have just been flexing her muscles) until AFTER Cooper’s testimony, at which time he (or Luskin) realized that he needed to look into any potential evidence of statements he may have made but doesnt remember. Then they pull out  the Hadley email, which could easily have been altered after the fact. Plus, this way it doesnt LOOK LIKE Rove changed his story as a result of being tipped off by Vivac- it makes it more logically plausible that  he just didnt remember the (original) Cooper conversation (which the Hadley email “shows” was innocent and harmless) until Cooper was forced to testify. This last point is crucial because it calls into question a very suspicious-looking timeline, resulting in what Luskin probably feels (hopes) is a lack of evidence beyond a reasonable doubt.</p>
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		<title>By: orionATL</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2005/12/09/whats-in-a-date/#comment-37579</link>
		<dc:creator>orionATL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;it is both fun and instructive to read these comments. but as a non-lawyer - you can think of me as a juror if you wish-&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;i dont see any clear line of reasoning here at all. furthermore, i dont see that this novak  info in its totality is especially uselful in helping me understand what rove did or did not do that the govt has alleged&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;interesting as it is, this set of comments, and indeed , virtually all the comments i’ve read about the novak/luskin testimony , are like an eddy current in a river– a more or less circle that keeps endlessly meandering round and round.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;were i a juror i think i would say:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;rove has an obligation to testify truthfully under oath. he has been shown, lets say, to have a remarkable memory.  this, the charges against him,  is a central, and very seriuous  problem for his job and reputation. he has a motive to lie.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;what have you, defense lawyer, got that is credible to me which says that what appears to be a lie is not? oh yeah? who cares when you met with novak.  &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;why i shoudl care at all if novak spoke with luskin in january, may, september. the issue is rove’s credibility and the presection has presented x1,x2, and x3 examples of dissembling.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;i suspect what is being argued here is being argued from the fear that fitzgerald may not indict.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;at this point there either aren’t enough (publicly available)connected facts to permit connecting them together. or there really is no inherent connectedlness to be discovered, i.e., its another rovian misdirection.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;but anyway it’s fun to read. and beats another  bad movie all to hell.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>it is both fun and instructive to read these comments. but as a non-lawyer &#8211; you can think of me as a juror if you wish-</p>
<p>i dont see any clear line of reasoning here at all. furthermore, i dont see that this novak  info in its totality is especially uselful in helping me understand what rove did or did not do that the govt has alleged</p>
<p>interesting as it is, this set of comments, and indeed , virtually all the comments i’ve read about the novak/luskin testimony , are like an eddy current in a river– a more or less circle that keeps endlessly meandering round and round.</p>
<p>were i a juror i think i would say:</p>
<p>rove has an obligation to testify truthfully under oath. he has been shown, lets say, to have a remarkable memory.  this, the charges against him,  is a central, and very seriuous  problem for his job and reputation. he has a motive to lie.</p>
<p>what have you, defense lawyer, got that is credible to me which says that what appears to be a lie is not? oh yeah? who cares when you met with novak.  </p>
<p>why i shoudl care at all if novak spoke with luskin in january, may, september. the issue is rove’s credibility and the presection has presented x1,x2, and x3 examples of dissembling.</p>
<p>i suspect what is being argued here is being argued from the fear that fitzgerald may not indict.</p>
<p>at this point there either aren’t enough (publicly available)connected facts to permit connecting them together. or there really is no inherent connectedlness to be discovered, i.e., its another rovian misdirection.</p>
<p>but anyway it’s fun to read. and beats another  bad movie all to hell.</p>
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		<title>By: Kathi</title>
		<link>http://firedoglake.com/2005/12/09/whats-in-a-date/#comment-37580</link>
		<dc:creator>Kathi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;I’m breaking out in a rash…..!!!!!&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I’m breaking out in a rash…..!!!!!</p>
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