Please Check: Carl Hiaasen “Adventures of Jack Abramoff-an ugly story” Miami Herald & “More Ohio Woes” N.Y. Times. Key-words: Rep.Bob Ney,R-Ohio, Itilia Federici, Gail Norton,Ralph Reed, Tom DeLay, JamesDobson, Jotn McCain, Rep. Jean Schmidt, R-Ohio, Michael Scanlon,Dennis Hastert, Conrad Burns, Grover Norquist, The list goes on and on: “un-indicted co-conspirators”?? Persons of interest?? Check it out & stop the cover-up” Lwayno

Gus Boulis Murder “COVER-UP?? Adam Kidan called ‘Big Tony” the night before Boulis was murdered. Jack Abramoff & Adam Kidan paid the three Mafia-Types $250,000 before the murder for a “catering contract! Right, A “catering” contract? Texas GOP “Laundry Matt” Gee! Golly Whiz! Do you think there is a money trail to Little Tommy, The Texas Laundry Man???? Where is Jeffy Gannon and Alberto “Tex” Gonzalez when you need them?? Lwayno

It’s getting almost impossible to keep on top of every nuance in this affair, and lead a “normal” life.

My take is the operative tactic is to obfuscate the issue to where the average citizen has no clue as to what is up, and what is down.

The water muddying is hot and heavy.

Well I just have to say I dig the nested Monk (as in Thelonious Sphere) references in the thread title. One of the greatest American composers in any genre, far as I’m concerned. And Monk–the photoshopper extraordinaire–shares a lot of that offbeat energy. A highly apt moniker, whether intended to riff off of Thelonious or not.

Can I add a 4.?

How does the timing of the Novak conversations (any dates) tie to Luskins “if Cooper is going to jail to protect someone, it is not Karl Rove” (paraphrased) statement? Did he make that statement KNOWING that Novak was saying that is EXACTLY who Cooper is protecting?

I wish I knew how to repost Quicksilver’s post from back thread – it was very good.

Here are the unsegued (word?) thoughts I am kicking around:

1. Let’s say Luskin did tell the Prosecutor a date near to Rove coming clean. Prosecutor talks to Novak, gets her to come clean on earlier date(s) of conversations. Prosecutor calls Luskin for depo in to lock him in on the dates. Is it too circuitus to think that that Prosecutor might issue the subpeona to Novak based on either a) date when Luskin said they had the conversation, or b) date of one conversation prior to Luskin saying they spoke, but still not “the earliest” conversation. This way, Prosecutor has spoken to Novak; knows the actual date(s); has Luskin on the record (and maybe if b) is correct, gets Luskin to whiffle from his original statement to try to pick up the earlier and cover it too without cueing Luskin to the fact that Prosecutor also knows about even EARLIER conversatios – so Rove isn’t the only one who might roll his disclosures?); goes ahead and takes a depo of Novak that only addresses the time frame that Luskin knows about from the subpeona and Luskin gets access to that and thinks that is what they have to deal with; then Prosecutor pulls Novak in front of GJ and has her testify, not just to what is in her depo but also to the earlier conversations.

So the subpeona could have been the Prosecutor sending Luskin an intentionally false signal that he was buying the dates?

2. Ditto digby, km, me3 et al on the October indictment. And to tie to 1 above, what if the situation in Oct was this. Prosecutor is having the PC. Lawyers know indictments are coming out and they know which of their clients have been demonstrably lieing. But Prosecutor is planning all along to just go for one defendant at this juncture (a cast iron one on cast iron counts) and see if he can use that to sweat the indictee or others who know they are nailed. Luskin makes the call, thinking he needs a last ditch – floats his lame story and — Prosecutor (who has already decided to wait a bit on Rove and see what Libby’s indictment shakes loose) allow Luskin to think that he is taken aback. All the while sitting back and thinking – hmmmm, wonder how deep this hole will be when they finish digging?

3. If Luskin’s story is that he went back and did lots of email digging – does that open up his billing reports for the applicable time periods to production? From both parties? Think they are detailed reports?

Just interesting stuff.

BTW, another interesting article, but on Padilla’s case

http://today.reuters.com/news/…..ADILLA.xml

How odd is that? 4th Circuit agrees to allow the detention based on govt’s representations to court and the significance of charges. Then govt decides to charge Padilla with completely different charges so that they do not have to get into the whole rendition, torture, etc. issue. 4th Circuit says – hey, get your derriere’s back here and brief to us why the facts you are using to charge Padilla, now, after the detention we authorized, are completely unrelated to the evidence you gave us when you asked us to authorize the detention. Govt says – ummmmm, how about you just go back and vacate that order, OK? We don’t really need it now.

Is that gonna fly? It seems the 4th Circuit might be a little peeved at that approach?

I’m was very surprised to hear ta criminal lawyer existed in the firm of Patton Boggs. They are reknown for being oily-tounged lobbyists. I used to deal with them back in the 80s, and it was a place where the term “conflict of interest” does not exist. If Rove gets indicted, he’ll have to get a real lawyer.

And if I was us, I’d start stocking up on bottled water for a terra tack.

I’m here too and watching Keith.

An old friend buzzed me on IM so I’ve spent the last hour explaining Treasongate and multiscandals for him. He tried the ole Dems are weak and just as corrupted trick, he wasn’t saying that when I got done with him!

BTW, that Chapman-Rove pic was great. Yowza.

If MSNBC is doing a special on the CIA Leak
Case you can bet some money that Fitz will
be having a press conference SOON –perhaps
as early as Monday or Tuesday. Be real
interesting to see what spin they give it.
If I were Rove I’d start stocking up on some
Lomitil and Prilosec and see a GI doctor soon.
If I were Cheney I’d start ordering the packing
boxes as your movin soon from V.P. digs.
Bushco is going get the hell out of D.C. fast
and retreat to his pig ranch.
Where’s George Tenet these days. Don’t hear
much about him? Is he in a witness protection
program?

Since there is an apparent lull, I guess I’ll put my two cents in. First of all, I have yet to understand why it would be to the advantage of Rove, Libby, or the administration not to have Rove and Libby, or for that matter, all involved indicted at the same time. Seems to me it would be to their advantage to get it all over with at once so that they can move on instead of the current drip, drip drip, which must be nerve wracking (I love to see All the Presidents Men twist in the wind.)

Second, I don’t understand why Luskin would need VNovak (or anyone) to prompt him to seek any evidence that might point to his client’s culpability. At the time, virtually everyone was speculating that Karl was deeply involved in the leaking. It was all over the internet. It was just a matter of who all he leaked to. If, indeed, V Novak solved that problem for him, then it should have taken him only about ten minutes to put the name “Cooper” into the “find” function for the message portion of the menu and the email gets found. Since email is an electronic function, it stretches the imagination that Karl would have someone print out hard copies of emails for his lawyer to got thru, and pretty much eliminates the need to read each one when you can use an infinite number of keywords to search with.

Thirdly, does anyone know if there are different types of photographic memory. I’m used to references involving the printed page; does it also always work that way with personal communications, the spoken word, contacts, times and dates? For instance, to paraphrase Einstein, never try to remember anything you can just as easily look up (like phone numbers.) If photographic memory doesn’t work on the spoken word, contacts, time and places, I sure hope what they say about Susan Ralston is true!

And finally, does anyone know what the GJ meeting schedule is for this new jury? Because I see some significance in the fact that Luskin was deposed on Friday and Fitz went to the GJ on Wednesday even before Novak was deposed on Thursday. Is this a sign that Rove is fried regardless of what she has had to say?

new thread (old Wood)

VNovak is supposed to writing up a story which will appear online Sunday to be followed by the dead-trees version on Monday…

puzzled – Lurking, and appreciating your blow by blow.

Keith – why would Luskin play this card?

Shuster – last gasp for Luskin theory…desperation to play card where you didn’t know what the witness was going to say…case now surreal

Shuster on Keith – Luskin heard from Viv late and right before Rover coughed up his latest version of the truth…but Viv said it was as early as March 2004, so Fitz now focused like a laser beam on Rover…

JH: LUSKIN COULD NOT BE CLAIMING THE CONVERSATION TOOK PLACE IN FEBRUARY IF FITZGERALD ISSUED THE SUBPOENA FOR MAY.

——–

it does give one a headache trying to figure out how that would make sense.

Shuster on Keith…

yes, ccmask…it’s like walking in to find the forum vacant…haha

and Hardball’s upcoming special on Rovegate this weekend looms to be pretty interesting.

Where the hell is everybody….stop playing games! We have crimes to solve!

and Keith’s doing a piece on the Kennedy Assassination too….quite a night :)

Unraveling the CIA Leak Case airs Sunday. The soap scrimmage begins at 7:00 ET & 11 PM ET on MSNBS. Don’t forget a bar of soap.
It could have dual purposes.

Shuster on Hardball gives another version of VivecaGate, one that finally makes sense in terms that make senses to Luskin/Rove…per Luskin the converstion with Viv was not pre Feb or mid 2004 as per all the confusing speculation, but right before Rover came clean, providing a cogent alibi for the light bulb going off. And Viv’s testimony that it was earlier gives Fitz another piece of ammo.

“If anyone is a double agent, it’s Miller.”

some would call it double penetration???

sorry ;-P

If anyone is a double agent, it’s Miller.

ccmask: “Today was Plame’s last day at work.”

Scooter, Karl…? What goes around comes around.

Asked Jake tonight about Wolfie’s comment
as reported by bionic here about the V.P. being
a double agent. He told me it’s wag the dog
time– Rove is going down soon, real hard. The Luskin spin is over. He told me that dogs caught killing sheep are shown no mercy. So be it for Roverboy.

Today was Plame’s last day at work.

Luskin to VdH, dates the conversation to pre-February

emptywheel — No. I don’t know how else to say this. LUSKIN COULD NOT BE CLAIMING THE CONVERSATION TOOK PLACE IN FEBRUARY IF FITZGERALD ISSUED THE SUBPOENA FOR MAY. I could be dead wrong, but I’m imagining even VandeHei could piece together this logic and not print something like that unquestioningly.

If Luskin thought someone ELSE was saying January, he might however try and spin it as advantageous to his client, which I suspect is the source of the confusion. VandeHei would most probably be willing to print that.

And as for me, contrary to popular belief I never specified a date. All I knew was that for the time period in question (and at the time that was during or after May, 2004, based on the Time article) Vivak knew that Rove was Cooper’s source.

Watching Hardball, it looks like Andrea Mitchell is still happy we went to war. She’s blaming the Dems in 2002 for not reading the intelligence.

I wonder why she thinks she’s a reporter?

cathy – I have tried to figure out the timing of lulls on FDL. Best I have come up with is dinner EST. We shall make it through this though.

Dinner? Me, I’m dripping salmon burger into my keyboard.

Just heard Wolfie throw to commercial with the statement “A double agent doublecross(ed)?” In reference to Valerie Wilson and an upcoming story that they probably won’t run until 2 minutes to 8.

WTF?

Are they now trying to say that VP was a double agent?

Hey, it’s echoing in here. Where’d everybody go?

By the way, Jane, I continue to be thrilled by your choice of allusive and witty titles for your posts.

I dig the allusion in this case to a great jazz composition by Thelonius Monk, one of my favorites.

Great piece by Larrisa Alexandrovna on HuffPo – a real must read on Bill O’Reilly’s inner Joe McCarthy (or his reincarnation).

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..11988.html

On the Huff Post link-

Any and all republicans who are not ethically challenged better join Shays or they may be sorry.

I was flabbergasted in the Libby indictment by the details he’d forced from the reclusive and secretive WH. Lord knows what else he has stored away in a database!

“The only straight shooter, including the press… Is Patrick Fitzgerald… We are just going to have to sit back and wait. I guarantee if he sat down with a new GJ he will come out when everything else is lied about and spun and tell us the truth on paper that will hold up in a court of law. It’s that simple.”
Me3 | Homepage | 12.09.05 – 3:04 pm |

Thanks, Me. Couldn’t agree more. ‘Nuff said.

What quicksilver wrote last thread made sense to me too. The earlier Novak talked to Luskin, the worse not giving Cooper a waiver looks.

Jane – Would you please remove my 3:16. Thanks

QS

Some thoughts about your theory (assuming you’re right about the email; I don’t necessarily buy that, but the comment in today’s NYT that this involves “people”–as opposed to a person named Novak–at Time might support that).

Keep in mind the only other person Rove is known to have leaked to is Novak. And if he gave Novak a waiver, it’s only because they fairly demonstrably compared notes beforehand. That is, unlike with Libby, you don’t have a counterexample.

For all we know (and I think this quite likely) Rove leaked to three other journalists the records of whose conversations he has successfully hidden, unlike his conversation with Novak and Cooper.

Indicted Rep. Tom Delay, former Majority Leader of the House of Representatives has told House Speaker Dennis Jellyfish Hastert he wants to be placed on the powerful Appropriations Committee. The members of the Appropriations Committee are called “cardinals” for the immense power they wield. This committee is all about money. Tax money, that is. With Delay’s track record on fiduciary irresponsibility, (should he get the nod from Hastert, whom Delay controls anyway), we can all rest assured Tom Mallet Head Delay will continue to employ his well know methods of financial chicanery.

dab: Yeeeeesh! He is the Eggman!

Jane

Can I follow up on my three leaks from last thread.

You mentioned these three leaks:

Source 1 — NYT Dec. 2 article, that puts the date as “summer or early fall” 2004.

Source 2 — WaPo Dec. 3 article, that puts the date prior to Rove’s testimony in Feb. 2004.

Source 3 — WaPo Dec. 9 article, that says the date according to Vivac friendly sources is March or May 2004.

But I was thinking one leak ahead of you. Leak 1 was your rumor mill leak, Leak 2 was NYT, leak 3 was WaPo.

I’m guessing your rumor mill rumor was based off the rumor (I can’t read the Time article right now, but do they specify details from the subpoena??) So you’re saying it went like:

Rumor mill based on subpoena (that is, Luskin wasn’t ahead of the leaking this time)

NYT guys talking to Vivnovka, dates the conversation to late summer/fall (that is, before Vivnovka now says it took place)

Luskin to VdH, dates the conversation to pre-February

Today’s WaPo which presents the conflicting dates based on Luskin and Vivnovka

Without revealing where your rumor came from, is that about right?

Thanks folks. Really, I’m just bowled over by this whole thing.

Big thanks to Jane.

-Monk

Sorry to all about that. I was trying to repost Quicksilver’s post from the end of last thread, which I think is worthy of your attention. Something didn’t work right (and yes, it could be my brain).

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..11990.html

^^^ Just up top dead center at HuffPo… It’s a must read. ^^^

Got this from Wonkette – totally creepy!
____________

… a Separated at Birth image that’ll be sure to hurt your soul just in time for the weekend:

http://www.wonkette.com/politi…..142093.php

Welcome home, Monk.

Ooh, that’s what I needed, some old-school Me.

Quicksilver – Good post at the end of the last thread. You should repost it.

Reposted from below:

Fitzgerald didn’t indict Rove in October for reasons of his own.

Fitz’s reasons are really simple. He had not vetted out all the evidence yet. Fitz is completely obsessive about discovery. Every rock turned over and dug under, every corner vacuumed. He has this thing about needing to know _everything_ that leads him to work slowly, and completely develop evidence.

As a result, he is never surprised in court.

He works one perp at a time… Gets everything he can (which is everything), then moves his focus over to the next perp in line. He may gather evidence on multiple perps at once… But he only works indictments in consecutive order.

Luskin/Rove are known liars. It’s hard to say who lies to the greater degree or more frequently. Luskin told the press that Rove never talked to Cooper… Is it Luskin’s lie or Rove’s lie? Well… They are both in over their head, cause Fitz hates liars of all shapes and colors.

It was Luskin who went public and said he presented evidence to Fitz that “gave him pause” – To be honest, don’t believe Luskin as far as you can throw him. And people who are spending hours of time dissecting his spin, are really just digging into a wastebasket of throw away statements… Lies, designed to manipulate the press and pollute a potential jury pool.

The only straight shooter, including the press… Is Patrick Fitzgerald… We are just going to have to sit back and wait. I guarantee if he sat down with a new GJ he will come out when everything else is lied about and spun and tell us the truth on paper that will hold up in a court of law. It’s that simple.
___

Welcome back Monk :))

Good luck!!!

And… As another public service announcement:

http://fusioner.proboards60.co…..1131129004

^^ Please Participate in the Media Campaign ^^

That one does not cost anything, but it sure helps the cause if you invest some time. Sign petitions, send letters, contact your reps in Congress!!! Spread the link out!!! Get your friends to participate!!!

I have said to Monk and will say here that his skills will be important as the blogosphere grows. He has a unique perspective and his graphics tell a story wihtout words. Add to that his excellent Photoshopping (which astounds me) and we have a real artiste!

Glad we got you first, Monk, and so glad you changed your mind.

is that lapdog MRS. SLEAZLEY??

Gotta go out now, folks.

Have a nice night!

Sainted Fitz!