I know this thread is “iver”, but boy did I enjoy the quotes. I dodn’t know one of them and it is very close to whar I have said…so what if the “enemy” gets a kick for a day, the ultimate continuation of what makes this country great are its own reward for us. That constant whining about – oooh, your giving aid to bin Laden sounds like a guy with a height issue.

‘Course it looked a little odd to follow that statement up with the news that General Casey had offered up his own cut and run plan to Rummy. Maybe Scottie hadn’t gotten the memo. He should check with Booby.

Damn I’m good!

Scottie just said (paraphrasing) Congress in a bipartisan fashion rejected the notion to cut and run in a statement to CNN.

Scottie, you and Bushbot and Rover are soooo predictable.

Okay, notion wasn’t the word he used, but the rest is pretty close and matches my prediction. Hey, allow me a little backslap, eh?

:-)

I was wrong about the Scanlon prosecutor… It was the Delay prosecutor I was talking about.

WHICH DeLay prosecutor?!!! Soon there will be at least 2!

Mrs. K8, you’re 100% right. We have to believe, however difficult that might be sometimes. And I certainly don’t think you’re a pollyanna, by any means. Believing you can win is critical. And I wholeheartedly agree with you that the battle can definitely be won.

But I would just add that we have to separate the belief from the strategy and the facts.

As a matter of strategy, it’s a mistake ever to underestimate the opponent. This is particularly true when the enemy is not so much “brilliant,” as it is entirely ruthless and unscrupulous. Overestimating the enemy just means you’re overprepared and win an easy victory. But underestimation can be fatal.

So, in my view, looking at things that way isn’t cynical, but is instead part of a winning strategy. Thinking that there’s such a thing as a winning strategy springs from a belief that you can win, and is essentially optimistic.

(And in saying all this I’m not trying to say, or imply, that you would disagree. In fact, I think it’s pretty likely that you would. I’m just trying to explain where I’m coming from.)

Sweetp, I hope your son is doing better and that your neighbors’ son returns safely.

I feel lame even trying to say anything in this situation; it’s so much bigger than I am and more profound than any words I possess.

I was listening to THIS AMERICAN LIFE tonight – the show featured soldier/bloggers. One guy was talking about an ambush in which he was wounded and his best friend died. And I was driving down the freeway, crying at the waste of it all…

He certainly is their “dream guy”–doing their bidding and stupid enough not to even realize it…

I think the committee that designed Bush was HUAC, with Bin Laden advising.

Yes, Marky–the committee from Hell…

PB,
Bush is the result of “intelligent design by committee”

Bush on CNN or MSNBC now live giving speech to troops in Osan, So. Korea. What a piece of work–proof that there is no such thing as “intelligent design”…

And, “ME” if you’re there — I haven’t said lately how much I appreciate your letters, and your website. You generate good energy and motivation for us all.

Thanks, but don’t think it means I am relieving you of letter duty ;)

Yeah I am still up… And I was wrong about the Scanlon prosecutor… It was the Delay prosecutor I was talking about.

My husband and I watched the debate on C-SPAN tonight. I was in tears when Murtha was reading the letters from the widows and wounded soldiers.

Our son came back from Iraq last year, thank goodness whole, but still has trouble adjusting to everyday life with short temper, nightmares and binge drinking.

And just tonight we found out that our neighbor’s son is leaving on Sunday for his second tour in Iraq. They are having a send off party tomorrow, just like they had one for his first tour. We hope and pray that he will return to us alive, as we hope and pray that all of our troops will return soon to their families. God this is getting harder and harder.

Natural Born Bloggers

Argh. No.

I can just hear the next radio ad for our local (San Antonio) porn store if this one came to be:

Natural Born Floggers. Or, hey, make it a bible belt XXX fantasy: Natural Porn Floggers.

What else would I expect from the same crew that advertised, “Harry PottyMouth and the Sorcer’s Bone” and Lara Crotch (or was it Crack?) in “Womb Raider?”

Well, I gotta turn in. Last one out, hit the lights and lock the door.

If anyone is still wide awake and you haven’t been to Magnum’s place, go watch the video Ghost Story (regarding the flood) or Bitter fruit (soldier’s funerals). Worth the trip.

http://www.magnuminmotion.com

Best headline of the evening:

“Courtney Love allowed to leave rehab center”

That article in Rolling Stone was unbelievable. Scary stuff. Their clock is set 12 -24 hours ahead of everone on the news. Most of it sounded illegal as hell- was that the point of the story or what?

It will lead to Delay. That is a sure thing. No worries. A cinch. A lock. A certainty. Done deal; Signed, sealed and delivered; Sure thing….

And to all a good night.

ccmask-Yeh, and it could lead to Delay, if we’re lucky. They were all in bed together.

d: Did you read this?

Nov. 18 (Bloomberg) — Michael Scanlon, a former associate of indicted Washington lobbyist Jack Abramoff, was charged by the U.S. Justice Department with conspiracy to corrupt public officials and defraud his Indian-tribe clients.

The charge against Scanlon, a former aide to U.S. Representative Tom DeLay, is in connection with a Justice Department-led probe of Abramoff.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/…..8;refer=us

Very good article:

Abramoff-Scanlon School of Sleaze

Wednesday’s Senate hearings yielded more scandalous revelations about how the dynamic lobbying duo bilked American Indian tribes out of millions and used the money to win elections for their Republican clients.

Michael Scanlon takes the Fifth at a Senate Committee on Indian Affairs Oversight Hearing in Washington Nov. 17, 2004. Jack Abramoff, right, listens to his attorney on Capitol Hill in this Sept. 29, 2004, file photo, as Abramoff refused to answer questions before the Senate Indian Affairs Committee.

Up-and-coming Republican hacks would do well to watch closely the ongoing Senate investigations of superstar lobbyist Jack Abramoff and his former business partner Michael Scanlon. The power duo stand accused of exploiting Native American tribes to the tune of roughly $66 million, laundering that money into bank accounts they controlled and then using it to buy favors for powerful members of Congress and the executive branch.

http://www.salon.com/news/feat…..ex_np.html

This Rolling Stone article on Information Warfare that was linked to on earlier thread is a must read.

http://www.rollingstone.com/po…..er=unknown

It shows the extent of the media manipulation and deception. We live in a world were nothing can be believed anymore. The line between truth and fiction is now completely blurred.

Too bad no one saw the film of the anti Clusterfuck riots in Korea—americans need to know how well their president is respected around the world.

Hoo Boy –

“Natural Born Bloggers” – Percy, you’re too funny, that’s great.

justwondering –

I’ll tell you, I’m very serious about needing to believe these things can be accomplished. And I know you are, too! That’s one of the things that’s so great about connecting at FDL. So many people have accomplished remarkable stuff, simply because nobody told them they COULDN’T, or if they did tell them that, they REFUSED to believe it and set out to prove cynics wrong.

I ain’t no pollyanna, and I know the depth of heartache and suffering these evil bastards have caused the multitudes of the disenfranchised, and how those who just want to do the right thing have had their hearts broken.

But I ain’t gonna let them turn me into a cynic. That’s how they win, by convincing everyone that sincerity and honesty “just isn’t done any more.”

These internets give us great opportunities both for demanding change, and for contributing ourselves to the change we want to make happen.

OK. Guess I’ll stop waxing so philosophical on a Friday night. Mr. K8 is lookin’ at me, like, WHEN did you say you were gonna make that midnight supper? So, I guess I’ll stop now.

But let’s keep up this sort of conversation. It’s good for our souls, and ultimately good for our communities, too. Don’t you think?

And, “ME” if you’re there — I haven’t said lately how much I appreciate your letters, and your website. You generate good energy and motivation for us all.

If I don’t get back later, ‘night all!! Sleep well.

VATICAN CITY – The

Vatican’s chief astronomer said Friday that “intelligent design” isn’t science and doesn’t belong in science classrooms, the latest high-ranking Roman Catholic official to enter the evolution debate in the United States.

Well, there’s this: 12,000 protesters burning an effigy of Bush with a terrorist go home sign.
Of course, he was probably too busy admiring his new blue satin coat they gave him. You know, Bush Putin Jacket….

SNIP:
A handful of riot police were also injured but no arrests were made, a spokesman said. The demonstrators took to the streets of Busan on Friday chanting anti-US slogans and waving colourful banners reading “No APEC, No Bush” and “Terrorist Bush Go Home”.

South Korea, meanwhile, announced it would withdraw about 1,000 of its 3,200 troops in Iraq next year.

The move caught the White House by surprise. “They have not informed the United States government of that,” said National Security Council spokesman Frederick Jones. He said President Roh Moo-hyun had not broached the subject with Bush when the two met just a day earlier

National Security Adviser Stephen Hadley said Roh had told Bush that South Korea remained committed to Iraq and would continue to provide troops. Hadley said the withdrawal announcement from the defense ministry was not the last word and the issue still had to be settled by the National Assembly next week.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/w…..OE=NEWISVA

ccmask– maybe I wasn’t clear, I was referring to the Abramoff/ Scanlon case not Plame.

Me– Are you sure? I found this…don’t know if it is the same one.

http://www.hillnews.com/thehil…..amoff.html

Abramoff case gives Justice lawyers a rare high profile
By Jonathan E. Kaplan

A little-known but well-respected Justice Department trial lawyer is leading the governmentÂ’s high-profile criminal investigation into disgraced Republican lobbyist Jack Abramoff.

She is Mary K. Butler, one of 26 attorneys in the Public Integrity section and 94 U.S. attorneys around the country who investigate and prosecute cases of extortion, bribery, election crimes and criminal conflicts of interest.

So in how many ways did Clusterfuck help himself with his little problem this week?

“Did you read this Martha?–what in the hell are them people doin in Washington now? It says here that the repulicans put up a damned bill sos that everyone would vote against it- what the hell is that about?”

just wondering–

No, I haven’t. A lot of things are dropping down the hole with all the excitement around here. I left my office at about 4:00 today, stopped for a couple of adult beverages, and when I got home I had over 300 posts to catch up on!
I’m afraid I may need self help tapes when this is all over!

The House on Friday overwhelmingly rejected calls for an immediate troop withdrawal from Iraq, a vote engineered by the Republicans that was intended to fail. Democrats derided the vote as a political stunt.

(sample of what people will see in their morning papers).

nite suin!

Redd,

You brought a tear to my eye, and my heart went pitter-pat a little reading this. I think I love you.

Has anyone heard anything more about the woman working with Grassley that somebody almost got away with murdering?

g’nite all – it was a pleasure to spend this day with you all!

Just read a few of the media websites to see how they are going to report the Animal House moment– pretty confusing accounts. Joe and Josephine sixpack are gonna be scratchin their heads in the morning when they get their morning papers

“So what in the hell happend?– did the goopers want us to get out of Iraq– I don’t get it”

Can’t imagine what the goopers were trying to accomplish– but I don’t think that this was it..

The yellin and shoutin in the House was refreshing though- that’s what a democracy is supposed to look like.

Congrats to all you congresscritters– it was stupid- but you did it well!

D- Fitz definitely has a backbone unlike the rest of the jellyfish on the hill. And, IMO, he has a face you can trust. And don’t tell anyone, but I think I’m in love with him!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10…../newsweek/

Poll ^^^

The prosecutor working that case is a Democrat… Pretty fair man, but a Democrat. He really hates this gang.

Focus people. Focus.

Assuming that Bush and Cheney truly believe “staying the course” and “honoring” the dead US troops…

As of noontime today, thanks to Mr. Murtha, for Mr. and Mrs. America, there is no longer any ‘course’ to ’stay’.

‘Whether’ is dead. ‘When’ is the only question left.

Yeh, the Scanlon thing could be really big.
The tentacles could spread throughout the entire republican infrastructure, all the way to the top.
If the prosecutor has a backbone there is no telling how much damage he could do.
Scanlon probably knows everybody and everything. And if Abramoff decides he doesn’t like the look of the world through cold steely bars there could be a bargain sale on indictments.

By the way, last I read, it wasn’t clear that he paid any money—or $9 million anyway. Has that been cleared up? No you don’t hear about cash in suitcases. But you can bet Bush took it ;)

Mrs. K8, I like your optimism and agree we have to do the best we can and never give up. Little victories mean a lot, as we’ve seen recently.
That’s why I think “Mrs. K8 Goes to Washington,” an updated version of Mr. Smith, with contemporary themes, would be a huge blockbuster. And I commend it to Jane as an idea she should pursue – Honest, good and sensible person turns Washington upside down.

Mrs. K8 writes:”Tell you what, you can ask Jane to write the screenplay (modesty prevents me!) — and then we’ll have a scene where I go limping up the path, cane in hand, to the Capitol building, with all of the FDL commenters as a batallion of energetic citizens marching as one, come to cast out the rapscallions and sweep in an age of reform!!!”

And the title…?

Natural Born Bloggers

ccmask: Great news about Bunny; thanks for posting because I haven’t heard any updates and I was concerned; although like MsK8 said, Bunny is not to be messed with. She is one strong woman to stand up and defy Big Time and his corrupt contract practices with Halleburton. Bunny’s in the Murtha Pantheon for her courage and bravery.

Eli – I am a Theoretical Poster. My theories need to be tested by Experimental Posters to see if they are correct ;) Perhaps it could be tested during the next solar eclipse.

People call on the Republican Party line on C-Span all the time with this line:

“The President had the same intelligence that Congress did”.

Does anyone think it could be possible that the President had very limited intelligence (not a pun)??

I mean, he’s out riding his bike when that plane got close to the WH and nobody thought to get him……the country is attacked and he sits in a classroom….he gets mad because Stevie Wonder didn’t wave to him……

Could it be possible?

Me,
I was wondering if you were thinking about the Gabonian leader.
By the way, last I read, it wasn’t clear that he paid any money—or $9 million anyway. Has that been cleared up?

C-span is showing a great Dem press conference held earlier today. Harmon is great.

It’s very difficult for a good person to get to Washington, let alone survive there.

Yes, justwondering, this is sadly true. But I refuse to believe that this must ALWAYS be true. The Democrats, if they snap out of their D.C. ways, could come to their senses and follow the new model of citizen empowerment. Interestingly, there was a front page post on how the K Street Boys were whining and complaining.

Really! This is rich: DeLay got them to refuse to do business with Dems. Howard Dean comes in and says, OK, so we’ll get by on small contributions from millions of citizens instead. The Internet plays its part in this. Nancy Pelosi actually gets on board, and even tells some K Street types to take a hike.

K Street bully boys are now kinda screwed. They put all their eggs in the Abramoff/DeLay Republican Corruption basket. What happens if the Republicans go down to defeat? These lobbyists have been showing signs of being anxious, such that they even have been quoted whining about the Democrats not playing the game the way they’re supposed to.

It was a really good diary on dKos. Sorry to say I don’t have a link, but if there’s interest I’ll go search for it and bring a link back.

You see, it doesn’t HAVE to stay corrupt like this. If I believed it DID HAVE TO stay like this, I’d be tempted to go stick my head in an oven (and I have an electric oven!) — and they won’t get rid of me that easily.

Let’s be a thorn in the side of the corruptors, and keep demanding the cleanliness of participatory democracy, eh? Whaddaya say? Sure we’ll never get it 100% spick and span, but we can do much better.

Dish? Well we read about that $9 million bribe paid by that corrupt African dude to meet with BushCo. I would be Scanlon was the guy who actually brokered their deal.

And BushCo is a lot more dangerous than appears on the surface. There is a reason people leave the country before speaking out against them.

Their trouble now is they don’t have enough attack dog to go after all their enemies.

EPU – Does your post signify a new thread?

The thing about the Amendment is that the Wingnuts will vote for it. It would be no different than tonite.

The Thugs don’t share Aravosis’ sense of irony, or at least I can’t find any evidence that they do.

In fact, I would argue the thugs “pass” that amendment everyday they continue with their lies about why we went to war, the war itself, traitorgate, etc., etc.

Mr. Kathi thinks that Fitzgerald is not necessarily responding to the Woodward thing. He thinks Fitz already had plans to move forward on the investigation with the new GJ. He thinks that the Woodward just is another piece of the puzzle that confirms the metnods that were used to dupe the Press into outing Plame, but it certainly does substantiate the pattern of a conspiracy.

(anyone else having trouble with the site – when I load FDL, this thread vanishes then reappears when I refresh the page twice – very odd)

Olberman’s show had a promo for next week about “Who’s Next” with pics of Cheney, etc – they’ll be focusing on who will get indicted next.

Off Topic-

Vatican Official Refutes Intelligent Design By NICOLE WINFIELD, Associated Press Writer
Fri Nov 18, 5:04 PM ET

The Vatican’s chief astronomer said Friday that “intelligent design” isn’t science and doesn’t belong in science classrooms, the latest high-ranking Roman Catholic official to enter the evolution debate in the United States.

The Rev. George Coyne, the Jesuit director of the Vatican Observatory, said placing intelligent design theory alongside that of evolution in school programs was “wrong” and was akin to mixing apples with oranges.

“Intelligent design isn’t science even though it pretends to be,” the ANSA news agency quoted Coyne as saying on the sidelines of a conference in Florence. “If you want to teach it in schools, intelligent design should be taught when religion or cultural history is taught, not science.”

His comments were in line with his previous statements on “intelligent design” — whose supporters hold that the universe is so complex that it must have been created by a higher power.

EPU, I agree that the Repubs won’t agree.. but why not send out the challenge. Couple that with introducing a resolution ala Aravosis saying that Bush is wonderful and Iraq is doing great—-hit ‘em from different angles, show they are cowards.

Marky – Never happen. The Repugs are all cowards. Chimpy is in asia; Vader is in hiding as usual; and do you think it was chance that a woman was sent by the thugs to attack Murtha?

“i wouldn’t wish washington on someone i didn’t like much less mrs k8″

Mack, it would be fictional, of course. Mrs.K8 would go in and set them straight.
But I hear what you’re saying. That’s a huge part of the problem. It’s very difficult for a good person to get to Washington, let alone survive there.

actually, what about Murtha challenging Cheney, Bush, Rumsfeld or the like to a debate?

Mack – seems like Murtha is as tapped into the real military thinking as they say.

Encouraging … though I just took a look at Riverbend’s blog which I haven’t read in a while, and it is so sad … while we play parliamentary proceedure, she watches film of white phosphorous and I want to cry.

justwondering –

LOL!!! Mr. K8 got a good laugh at that, though he hastened to add that they could do worse.

Tell you what, you can ask Jane to write the screenplay (modesty prevents me!) — and then we’ll have a scene where I go limping up the path, cane in hand, to the Capitol building, with all of the FDL commenters as a batallion of energetic citizens marching as one, come to cast out the rapscallions and sweep in an age of reform!!!

Or…maybe there’s a reason why I don’t work in Hollywood?

My bet would be that withdrawal “plans” are a canard. The troops, sadly, are not going to be coming home as long as Chimpy is in the Whitehouse. My bet also has it as a leak to counter Murtha. The Wingnuts are a travisty, a sham, and a mockery: a travishamockery of a government. The result of my winning this bet is that these “plans” disappear in a week, and the Wingnuts will say they never existed.

Another Wingnut canard. Fortunately, no one (ok 9 out of 10) trusts or believes them anymore. So, their continuing knee-jerk response to any and all criticism or dissent with ad hominum attacks and obfusgation, always as if mortally threatened, just adds to their woes. Self imolation may not be pretty, but in the case of the Winguts I’ll take it.

Not just toast, BURNT Toast :)

Mrs. K8 – The honor is mine.

Assuming that Bush and Cheney truly believe “staying the course” and “honoring” the dead US troops by guaranteeing the the deaths of replacement troops is a legitimate position, why would they not agree to defend it in a series of nationally televised debates with the opposition?

An open and honest debate?

It’ll never happen. Bush and Cheney speak only to captive or eager audiences, like Republicans at fund raisers or to the poor guys at safe military bases.

Bush wasn’t in the military long enough to understand that all the respect he’s getting from the troops is not because he deserves it, but simply because he’s the commander in chief. I learned in boot camp a long time ago that you salute the rank, not the holder of the rank. There’s a subtle distinction here that of course Bush will never grasp.

Neither Cheney nor Bush would serve as footsoldiers in a war, largely because they’re elitist cowards. And now they don’t have the courage to defend their positions in a truly open forum.

Their smears and Swiftboating attacks come from fortified bunkers, which they believe are inpenetrable. Well, wake up and smell the coffee, boys! 37 per cent, and FALLING.

Me—-DISH.
You can say something like that and just leave us hanging!!
grrr

I think there should be another element to the discussion: who can be trusted, and who will the Iraqis believe has their best interests in mind.
The fact is, no matter WHAT Bush does, Iraq will be a disaster, IMO.
For sure, any plan for staying that has clusterfuck, the VP of torture, and Dr. StrangeRums at the top cannot succeed. The people in Iraq know that the Bush administration is responsible for torture, murder, robbery, rape.. you name it.. chemical weapons. Leaders like that cannot succeed unless they use Saddam-like brutality, with 500,000 troops to back them up.

On the other hand, suppose that Murtha were President, and maybe Powell sec. of Def. I can see the Iraqis working with that team.

The bottom line is that BUSH has failed—not the troops—and it’s time for the troops (and the iraqis) to stop paying the price for Bush’s lethal incompetence and indifference.

justwondering,

i wouldn’t wish washington on someone i didn’t like much less mrs k8
the only place i like less is orlando

everthing in and around DC has the foul stench of politics

I got it figured out….

Scanlon busted Bush ;)

mack,

Surely not a coincidence.

After tonight’s debate, icing on the cake for Murtha…

Okay I will try to post again- I have been bumped off twice to the “Can’t be found page”….About the “Debait ” tonight- Unreal….I really hate the repugs tonight….and Schmidt the Bitch- unreal- can we send her to Gitmo? I wish Hackett had beaten her- although I think he actually did….

Mrs.K8, they certainly should have taken your advice – on this and on a lot of other things too. The democrats need to start calling attention to the fact that the republicans control the floor. Therefore, they’re the ones who bear the brunt of the responsibility for the horrendous mess they’ve made.
And I’d like to somebody to make the movie: “Mrs. K8 Goes to Washington.”

siun,

coincidence? – I think not.

I just heard that the repugs are planning to open an ethics investigation of Murtha.

Maybe somebody should tell Karl Rove that if you find yourself in hole, you should stop digginG!

Wilson –

Did I misunderstand what happened with Davis-Bacon? I though Miller threatened, and looked like he was going to make good with the threat (never did know what the trick was, thx for filling me in on the magic #219) — and right before he pulled off his special trick, Bush rescinded his rescinding of Davis-Bacon, because Bubble Boy didn’t wanna have his weakness in Congress plastered all over the front page.

That’s how I heard it went. But maybe I got bad information.

If what I heard was correct, then it’s especially funny that Bush was forced to do the right thing — and then it didn’t matter, now that EVERYBODY who hasn’t been living deep in a cave knows that the White House is weak, weak, weak, and can no longer just snap its fingers and make Congress dance to its tune.

so
the more i think about murth – the more i like him

up to this point we have had two clear alternatives
gwb – “stay the course”
cindy sheehan – “bring ‘em home now’

of course the dems talk about this ‘phased withdrawl’ but that sounds as effective as the rhythm method – moderation for the sake of being moderate

of course i am not certain where in the region we would oull back to…everybody to kuwait?

stratfor contends we ended up in iraq because we couldn’t stay in saudi arabia – a point i have had difficulty reguting

jordan might want us – or might want us gone

but other than that logistical detail, i think a major withdrawl following the elections on the 15th has a certain , i don’t know, commons sense? aspect

another point
a guy like murtha don’t suddenly start talking about the weakness of our armed forces unless they are really worried
and HE KNOWS what’s up

as for the swift boating – i think it will likely just sputter, at best it might backfire, but that would be expecting too much.

i mean half the voters re-elected gwb a year ago, and things were really bad enough then that you couldn’t possibly have voted for him if you were paying any attention at all

“I am aware that many object to the severity of my language; but is there not cause for severity? I will be as harsh as truth, and as uncompromising as justice. On this subject, I do not wish to think, or to speak, or write, with moderation. No! no! Tell a man whose house is on fire to give a moderate alarm; tell him to moderately rescue his wife from the hands of the ravisher; tell the mother to gradually extricate her babe from the fire into which it has fallen; – but urge me not to use moderation in a cause like the present.”
William Lloyd Garrison
(first issue of anti-slavery publication The Liberator, 1831)

Sounds like the military is making themselves heard – great timing.

Defense official: Rumsfeld given Iraq withdrawal plan
Plan calls for troops to begin pulling out after December elections

WASHINGTON (CNN) — The top U.S. commander in Iraq has submitted a plan to the Pentagon for withdrawing troops in Iraq, according to a senior defense official.

Gen. George Casey submitted the plan to Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld. It includes numerous options and recommends that brigades — usually made up of about 2,000 soldiers each — begin pulling out of Iraq early next year.

full story:
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/…..index.html

OT – but Shez (and everyone) you might enjoy the new trilogy from Kim Stanley Robinson – readable, smart, informative novels on global warming. (And if you don’t know KSRs work, check out Antartica for a quick intro or the Mars Trilogy for the full feast – politics, great science, feral culture and good characters all wrapped up in his work – I reread Mars yearly and it keeps me hopeful.)

Raw Story changed their headline – phew!

and I love the CNN vote (unscientific though it may be) – now will the dems get with the program and call for withdrawal from this illegal war?

I agree TimW. Right now we have the White House Adult Day Care Center in charge.

Godd/ess save us all.

There’s an ancient Hopi prophesy and petroglyph type calendar that shows our times now as a split fork in the road of humanity. If we make the wrong decisions the world could be destroyed, if we choose the correct path Mother Earth will have a chance to survive and attain Peace. We’ve reached that fork in time.

Miller of CA did the end-run-around trick on the Bacon-Davis over-ride Bush did in Louisiana. He got enough cosponsors to force his resolution directly to the floor where it passed and forced Bush to pay prevailing wages for Katrina cleanup.

Is this the busiest fld day ever? Certainly it seems the most commented.

News Nag –

Uh, do we want a quote from…Goering?

I would hope it’s by way of NOT taking his advice…

adjourned
good night and good luck

Thank you, Redd, for all that historial luster. And if I may add:

No sordid question of cost or even gain seemed to have tainted the initiative in this most irrational of all wars. No arguments or appeals that the modern world could present would be of any avail, for the archaic international military caste is not of this world. It is as unchanging as the Church. Its rules are as eternal as the dogmas of the creed. It knows no morality except the few rules it lays down for war. It takes seriously no life but that mad welter of the last extremities, the last violences, the last desperations that is war.

—Randolph Bourne, “The State,” c. 1918

Poor courageous Bourne, limping along the narrow streets of the East Village in his black cape while being hounded by the embryonic goons of the FBI.

Thanks Wilson and mack –

It would be a wonderful and amazing thing if they could get 219 sponsors, wouldn’t it?

And if they don’t do that, then I’m disappointed the Dems didn’t take my advice — ;-) — to file out silently instead of voting…

http://fusioner.proboards60.co…..1131129004

^^^ Updated with the Dem petition supporting Murtha ^^^

ccmask –
WoooHooo! Thanks for the report, great news.

Go Bunny Go!!! I always knew this is not a woman you want to screw with.

Heh, heh. Revenge will be sweet, Bunny.

Thanks for the right to comment!

These quotes and many others like them (from Tolstoy, Dylan, Jefferson, Joseph Heller, Mailer, Vonnegut, Goering, Tom Paine, et al) need to be read to Congress repeatedly during:

THE DEMOCRATIC FILIBUSTERING OF THE ‘TAX CUTS FOR THE RICH’!

Somebody get on this, right now!
Now is the time for the Democrats to show the American people who we are and what we stand for and why they need to stand with us.

Stand, filibuster, win!

Love,
The News Nag
Austin, Texas

What a witch that Schmidt is. What I would give to run into her somewhere around D.C…. the GOP is in dissaray when a spindly little marathon runner is attacking a decorated Vietnam vet on the floor of Congress. What a slimy little creep she is.

So a wicked witch, a fat ex gym teacher, a gay party leader, a VP with five draft deferments, and a P that went AWOL from a champagne NG unit are all attacking a well-respected, decorated, Vietnam Vet. The GOP and their swift-boat smears are absolutely pathetic. This whole Murtha bruhaha has the ring of the whole Schiavo mess-> They are going way too far.

Meanwhile, a real debate about Iraq gets pushed aside in favor of a joke amendment. When will the adults be in charge again?

ccmask – thanks for that – I hadn’t seen it though I did see the story about the fellow and his wife who are living off bribes from US companies.

So much is unraveling so fast, it’s hard to keep all the scandals straight.

mrs k8
i think the majority party has control of what resolutions come to the floor

the current comments are the best we get

True patriots take their anti-psychotic meds before speaking in public.

Don’t know if this was posted today because I failed the Evelyn Wood Speed Reading Course.

WASHINGTON (CNN) — A whistleblower’s claims that reconstruction in Iraq has been rife with waste, fraud and abuse — particularly in regard to a division of Halliburton — will be turned over to the Justice Department, a U.S. senator said Friday.

Sen. Byron Dorgan, D-North Dakota, has championed the cause of whistleblower Bunnatine H. Greenhouse, a former high-ranking civilian employee of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers.

it takes an absolute majority in cosponsors to force a bill onto the floor bypassing the committees & leadership. That means 219 sponsors: a tall order but still doable

iheart –

Yessirree, I said that on an earlier thread. When I told Mr. K8 that Scanlon would be called on to rat out not just Abramoff, but Congresscritters, and executive branch officials, Mr. K8 said, “Please God, he should live so long!“

So I’m praying for good bodyguards for him as well as for Joe & Valerie (think civil suit!).

Keep them safe. Amen.

It just came to me – Jean Schmidt is really Betty Bowers! now it all makes sense!

Franks of Arizona is now hollering about the Barbary Pirates we fought in the 1790’s as examples of Islamic extremists. For real! Wingnuttery to the max…

some yobbo from indiana sewing now
don’t know what church he attends, but
Life Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness were not set down by the Creator in either the Presbyterian or Lutheran churches

as PAC. pointed out eailer . . . other things brewing SCANLON is doing a magical myster tour . . .

ROLL UP (over)
ROLL UP (over)
ROLL UP (over) for the mystery tour . . .
there’re coming to take you away, there’re coming to take you TODAY.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/11/18/204938/05

let’s prey for his safety.

redd – you can be assured that Jean Schmidt will not be keeping company with those folks

Kucinich today

Congressman Dennis J. Kucinich (D-OH) gave the following speech tonight on the House floor on the House Republican Leadership’s plan to play politics with the war in Iraq and present a phony “withdrawal” bill:

“I have spent three years making the case against the war in Iraq, trying to convince Congress to avoid war, working with other members in leading nation-wide opposition to the war, developing an exit strategy once we got in, working with colleagues on both side of the aisle on plans to withdraw from Iraq and bring our troops home.

“I will vote against this resolution because it is a fraud. What more does anyone need to know, but that the sponsor himself has called for the defeat of his own proposition? If his real intention were to bring our troops home right now, why would he vote against his own resolution? Wake up America.

“The American people are fed up with politicians who say one thing and do another. Every one of conscience and intelligence knows the magnitude of withdrawing 150,000 troops requires a plan, and a sincere legislative effort.

“The American people deserve a real debate on Iraq: Where are the WMDs? Where is Osama Bin Laden? What did Iraq have to do with 9/11?

“This Congress, which is a coequal branch of government, which has the War Power and which has oversight responsibility, has the moral obligation to find out why almost everything of significance we were told about the war turned out to be false.

“Instead those who raise questions have their military service, or their honor impugned. They took John Kerry on a swift boat. But we will not let them take John Murtha on a swift boat, nor will they do it to the American people any longer as we are ready to stand up and to expose fakery when we see it.”

If I may, I’d like to repeat my question from the end of the last thread:

OK, since I’m not up on House procedure: is there any way for Murtha to force his resolution to the floor? Or is that killed for good?

If it’s killed, then I think the Americans who don’t follow this carefully will think that his resolution got voted on tonight.

You can bet that Republicans won’t want to highlight the details of their prank on the talking head shows.

Redd – you can’t post until EPU posts in the last thread begging for a new one. It’s in Roberts Rules or something!

of course, as usual – you and Jane are keeping us informed, thinking and engaged – thank you both!

check the date on the Teddy quote: the War ended on Nov.11, 1918…as I recall the US didnt get in it til April 1917

murtha vs. the daughter of godzilla

Murtha will prevail.