Look who dropped another hint in a legal brief. Yep — Patrick Fitzgerald is turning the screws a little tighter. Again. Looks like whatever maneuver Booby was attempting didn’t faze Fitz one bit.
Um. What a shocker. Ahem.
Special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald said in court filings that the ongoing CIA leak investigation will involve proceedings before a new grand jury, a possible sign he could seek new charges in the case.In filings obtained by Reuters on Friday, Fitzgerald said “the investigation is continuing” and that “the investigation will involve proceedings before a different grand jury than the grand jury which returned the indictment” against Vice President Dick Cheney’s chief of staff, Lewis “Scooter” Libby.
Say you are an Administration official who hasn’t yet come completely clean. And you’ve just witnessed Rover planting the knife in Scooter’s back in the press, day in and day out leading up to the Libby indictment.
Do you:
(a) continue to hunker down and hope that Rove and others in the Administration have ethics to not plant a knife in your back in a scrambling effort to save their own hide (mwahahahaha), or(b) begin to contemplate singing like a canary before someone else beats you to Fitz’s office?
Honestly, it’s one thing for all of us to speculate that Fitz can use a sitting grand jury for further proceedings. It is a whole other level of hurt to have him come right out and say in black and white that he is planning on doing just that. In an official court filing.
Now that’s some impressive screw turning. Can’t you just feel things tightening down another turn or two?
Sure hope journalists are staking out the offices of all the attornies representing the principals in this case, along with the Federal courthouse and the offices that Fitz and company have been using. Could be a busy time over the Thanksgiving holidays.
I have a few requests for some turkeys that I’d like to see served up on a platter.
(Will update when I can get my hands on a copy of the filing.)
UPDATE: More on this from Carol Leonnig from the WaPo, including this added information on the potential release of some information in the Libby indictment matter:
Fitzgerald was scheduled to appear in federal court today to argue that much of the evidence gathered in his investigation — material to be used in his prosecution of Libby — should be withheld from the public or news media before trial.He initially sought a blanket protective order preventing Libby’s defense team from releasing any of that information. The proposed protective order was formally opposed by Dow Jones & Co., which owns the Wall Street Journal, and the Associated Press. But in a court filing late Thursday, the special counsel offered a compromise that might give the news media access to some of the evidence against Libby before his trial, the Associated Press reported.
Fitzgerald’s latest filing said he is “mindful that as much of the conduct of pretrial litigation and the trial itself should be conducted in open court with publicly filed documents.”
The compromise would restrict the defense’s disclosure to the media of grand jury transcripts and personal information about witnesses, such as phone numbers and addresses, AP reported. Fitzgerald argued for the “need to preserve the confidentiality of grand jury proceedings” and pointed out that “the grand jury’s investigation is ongoing.”
Fitzgerald said he would pursue a separate protective order covering classified information.
I don’t normally do a long quote like this from an article, but the whole of the information was something that I thought folks here would want to read.
Interesting day. More as I get it.




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arbogast, thanks
He was lucky—he just when to get his BP checked as an assignment for a class, and they told him “don’t move”.
He is pumped full of valium, nebutol and something else; presumably the BP is lower now.
He’s very stressed about my class in particular.. not much I can do for him though.
A diastolic pressure of 125 is a medical emergency. He should go to an emergency room. He needs to be treated. Period.
Trish and norske: I am having brain freeze.
Marky, they are right in terminology, systolic is first, or top number, diastolic is second, or bottom. We are all 3 right about the concern.
Marky_
Sorry, had an interruption.
That BP is way too high, esp the systolic 125. Good that he’s on meds, should be watching nutrition, low salt, etc and having other cardiac workup. With the inclusion of antianxiety med, I suspect there’s some stress factor, but best to be safe. Systolic should be 80 or so, 90 is really a warning sign. Diastolic, the first number, should be around 120.
Best luck to him.
Marky,
I’m an RN and any diastolic (lower number) over 100 is VERY problematic…in addition the distance between systolic (upper) and diastolic becomes very important even within normal ranges , as the space between the 2 narrows the immediate pressure becomes dangeous. (normal ranges fer government work: Systolic 90 to 150 Diastolic 50 to 99)
Thanks Steady Eddie. I’m already on the next thread, but I wanted to acknowledge your post…damn, but it’s frustrating to think that all these criminals won’t spend a day in jail.
Maybe civil suits will work…hit ‘em in the pocketbook.
Onward and upward!
The Gilliard blog states that Diebold machines are only used in a few precincts nationwide. I believe this is an error.
Maybe someone needs to research who’s using what voting machine system.
Here in San Antonio/Bexar County, the voting machines are iVotronic, which is from ES&S. No paper trail there. iVotronic has some pretty serious problems, as mentioned here.
Interesting note about ES&S & Republicans:
There has been considerable controversy in the voter verification movement about Chuck Hagel’s ties to AIS, now ES&S; Hagel was (ahem) chairman of AIS for the first ten weeks of 1996. Hagel “neglected” to mention that 10 weeks of service when he filed his disclosure form to run for Senate.
In 1996, 85% of Nebraska’s votes were counted on AIS (ES&S) voting machines.
More info here.
Bob Adams — unfortunately in this case, the pardon power is plenary — it can cover any crime committed prior to the time at which the pardon is issued, including crimes that have neither been the subject of an indictment or even identified publicly.
Witness Ford’s pardon of Nixon, in the expectation that he could be indicted for conspiracy in the Watergate coverup after his resignation, and corrupt KY Gov. Ernie Fletcher, who pardoned many of his appointees for any crime they may have committed.
The only thing the pardon power can’t cover is crimes not yet committed (that is, the pardoning official cannot authorize the commission of a crime by pardoning it in advance).
Will be interested in your comments on John Dean’s “Open Letter” to Mr Fitzgerald.
http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20051118.html
Peace,
UL
Pachacutec –
No offense taken at all. I don’t do “smilies,” but if I did, there would have been one after “dope slap” above.
&y
On to the next thread…
I expect apologies from those of you who told me I was wrong to expect more, over time.
I have learned to listen to the Mighty Pachacutec. In the hours right after Libby’s indictment was announced, many here were in despair. Pachacutec talked us down off the ledge. I have not known him to be wrong in any matter of substance.
Pacha-enjoy the HP movie. Saw it last night at the midnight showing. Two words: Viktor Krum. Yum.
Thaxter–Fitzgerald said he cannot have all the facts due to Libby lying under oath. That does not mean he is not coming out with more indictments.
The next court appearance re Libby does not take place until February, 2006. Don’t be surprised if a lot doesn’t happen before February.
Keep the faith. Fitzgerald is not afraid of politicians. He hasn’t stopped what he is doing.
Yes, the US Attorney’s office does read the blogs, including Firedoglake.
Do any of the intelligent people here have input on the civil measures Fitzgerald could take in restricting national security clearance to those who have violated it . . . and why he may have rejected this option because it ultimately hurts his case?
Rove and other leakers are still receiving classified information. I didn’t know that Fitzgerald had the means to revoke this privilege through civil litigation, but apparently he does.
Is it possible that Fitzgerald has a larger goal in mind, and if so, what might that be?
Also, how might that goal be weighed in relation to the potential risk posed by the continued presence in the administration of those who have demonstrably dishonored their national security contracts?
I appreciate those who reassert we must have faith in Fitzgerald. I have a great deal of faith in him, yet I still would like to know the possible reasoning behind why he has avoided, so far, “cleaning house” before prosecuting the criminal case.
Pach – You’re on target there. But “working class” is not how I would describe my upbringing once we left Brooklyn (unlike, say, Bill O’Reilly and his tales of his “hard scrabble” life in Mineola, let’s say).
Plus, I have been consistent in my support of Fitz. I have more reason perhaps than most to understand the prosecutorial process, the need for patience, the lack of information. My Dad has been a lawyer for 46 years, and was once a very senior prosecutor in Brooklyn. The stories (both prosecutorial and defense) are indelibly etched in my head. He was (and still is) a Fitz.
new thread
Bob–This has been covered here a few times and Redd probably did a complete analysis a couple of times– but the bottom line is that Bush’s power to pardon is virtually unlimited- including crimes that have not yet been charged- the only possible restriction is his ability to pardon himself- and even that is controversial- and will be until a court rules on it.
marky,
The upper limit of normal for the diasolic (lower # ) of BP is generally around 80.
also a nurse
rwcole, I’m sorry, I meant to say WHERE is the limit of W’s pardoning powers? For indicted crimes? For any crimes that MAY be indicted? That sort of thing…
Hey Zennurse, if you’re here, I have an OT question for you, health-related. One of my students (returning student, late 30s) told me he went in to get his BP checked, and it was 154/125.
He’s now on several medications, including tranquilizers. How extreme that 125 reading? That’s my question.
“At what point”—The day after he leaves office.
EPU: I’m sure they don’t, and did not mean to imply otehrwise. I was just wondering. My grandparents named my mother after a Jewish woman, friend and neighbor down the block.
You do soooo not want a prossie after you who said that every day in home room for four years….
HAH!
That’s the damn truth.
cut crystal?
Now THAT’S damn funny, too!
chickens wrote:
One way that occured to me is:Fitz hasn’t charged Libby with a leak. Why not? Maybe so that he can charge Libby later when there is a Democrat in the White House.
Yes, exactly! The only way we’ll have any chance of getting true justice done is if the promise of a presidential pardon in exchange for their complicity is eliminated.
That is, if we can fight a pardon that includes “any crimes the person MAY have committed but aren’t yet charged with” (pardon the awful grammer, please).
This brings us back to the limits of presidential pardons. At what point CAN’T Bush issue blanket pardons?
Cookie,
Thanks for the cheney photo.
His color is not so bad in that pic, although he is corpulent as a Michael Moore—-wonder if drinking blood helps skin tone.
On Monday, November 21st, California’s Voting System Panel (VSP) was slated to hold public hearings on whether to recertify Diebold TSX touchscreen machines. The California Election Protection Network (CEPN) issued a press release inviting concerned citizens to speak at the 10 a.m. hearing and attend a rally at Secretary of State Bruce McPherson’s office to encourage state officials to “send Diebold packing before Turkey Day.”
From Raw Story– so apparently there was to be a hearing to RECERTIFY the machines.
The Secy of State was trying to hold the hearing under the radar- but some found out about it and the meeting was cancelled.
A WIN for the diebold opponents in California as I read the story.
I hate the designated hitter…
Davis X – awesome St Ignatius flashback! merci!
Pachucatec – I have the German on my Mom’s side – good breeding!
BTW, on your upcoming visitors, my kids favorite visits growing up were to childless gay couples – they felt respected in a way they rarely felt with the other adults. Of course, my son would then insist on having his grape juice served in cut crystal for weeks afterwards! Have fun with the toddlers!
I do like to think that someone in their office is monitoring the blogs and reads a bit of what we’re thinking here, if only for entertainment value. If I were them, I might be tempted to chime in a hint or suggestion now and then ;-)
That would be very foolish. It would not be hard for the FBI to work back from Haloscan comments (via recorded IP number and ISP logs) to the poster. I’m sure Fitz’ people are aware of it, and I hope they’ve always warned any GJ members…
Wonder if someone is suckin up the movie rights to the Fitzy investigation story- it’s sure to be a blockbuster..
Fitzy took a chance by goin for the Libby indictment early– he now knows that the public pressure will start building- and that his announcement of a new grand jury will add to the pressure.. He was willing to take that risk for reasons that we don’t yet know- perhaps because the detailed indictment made it clear that he had a lot of evidence and that he knows where it points.
At this point- it may be in his interest to move as quickly as possible.. Despite great security– the risk of leaks from some of his own team- or a grand jury- or the defense attorneys is now very high.. Time ta get it done!
Marky: Here’s a photo of Cheney from this week: http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITI…..index.html
He got really fat!
I do think there’s an Irish Catholic hang on no matter how long it takes to get justice gene that we all got.
It’s the Jesuits.
Prayer of St. Ignatius:
Lord, teach me to be generous.
Teach me to serve you as you deserve;
to give without counting the cost;
to fight and not to heed the wounds;
to toil and not to seek for rest;
to labor and not to ask for reward,
except to know that I am doing your will.
You do soooo not want a prossie after you who said that every day in home room for four years….
I wonder how much this whole movement here is fueled by the educated children of working class Catholics, with Fitzy as our standard bearer. The new, culturally-religious left, as it were.
Not all from Flatbush fit that bill.
rwcole–See the RawStory update. It seems the hearing into the accuracy of Diebold was mysteriously cancelled. See the hand of Ahhhnold there?
siun: My dad’s side is the Irish/German/English side. So we share that. But I grew up in St. Christopher’s parish in Baldwin, on the south shore in Nassau County.
If something really is going on behind the scenes with Diebold, it won’t be too long before something comes out about it. I mean, we are learning that no big time secret is going to be held long these days. Yeah, Diebold has their employees and vendors scared shitless these days. That won’t last forever.
Unfortunately, it’s too late to help the 2000 and 2004 election results.
product of St Augustines and The Academy of Our Lady of Mercy myself in Bridgeport – quite similar to Flatbush actually – I do think there’s an Irish Catholic hang on no matter how long it takes to get justice gene that we all got.
dana: agreed, and I do watch Olbermann ;-]
My partner took the day off, and inasmuch as he is a perpetual eight year old, I’ll be leaving soon to see the new Harry Potter movie with him.
Oy!
Karen— As I recall, California banned the Diebold machines- which makes Raw Story’s headline a bit confusing.
More on voting machines. What is truly amazing is that ANY government would buy into the “proprietary” information argument. That is sad. Who are you going to sell voting machines to other than governments. The governments would seem to have all the leverage there to make what demands they want and sign a confidentiality agreement if necessary. Disclosure would also seem to be covered by general public policy concerns – trumping proprietary claims. So all of that is weird.
I am a proud gay man. 39 years old, partnered, of mixed latino and euro ethnicity, with too much education and a great jazz collection.
The nick name “Pachacutec” comes from the name of an ancient Inca warrior/ruler of legend.
He helped build the Inca civilization, was no one’s punk and anyway, my grandfather came from Peru. Grandpa was a hero of mine for reasons too involved to relate quickly.
Pach,
I didn’t despair, and since the Libby indictment, my hopes keep being realized. Even if you’re not reading anything in the kind of detail discussed here or in the articles by our favorite columnists or not watching Olbermann, you have to know that the desperation is palpable in the WH. That Scotty, Cheney, and Bush would launch the vicious personal and public attacks against their critics as they have, especially in the past few days, just gives more support in the public for Fitz’s case–that leaders of our country will brook no dissent in a democracy. They will, in fact, vilify and attempt to crush dissent. They are scaring people–that’s what is being perceived by the average citizen. That’s not leadership; that’s the sign of a bully about to go down.
Is there any way that Fitz can hold an indictment over Libby if Bush will grant a pardon?
One way that occured to me is:Fitz hasn’t charged Libby with a leak. Why not? Maybe so that he can charge Libby later when there is a Democrat in the White House.
Prior to the last election, Howard Dean hosted the Tina Brown show on CNBC and had Beverly Harris of BlackBoxVoting.org on – she showed him precisely how to change vote counts on one of the windows computers used to tally electronic votes – any of us could do it without a lesson. Sadly, the Dems had the knowledge and the vote tampering in Ohio and prob. FL was pretty obvious – and Kerry said he would fight but they simply caved instead. I guess it takes a major shift in popularity polling for either party and the MSM to notice the destruction of democracy.
pachacutec – are you a girl or a boy?
The Gilliard blog states that Diebold machines are only used in a few precincts nationwide. I believe this is an error. California is now challenging the Diebold machines, where the machines counted votes in many locations.
Zeppo – Something like Creed?
Pacacutec:
lgf are initials of my name. never thought
of little green footballs. not attached to any
blog name. it’s the message that counts.
what’s the meaning of Pacacutec?
Wow: so many Brooklyn-ologists here!
I wonder how much this whole movement here is fueled by the educated children of working class Catholics, with Fitzy as our standard bearer. The new, culturally-religious left, as it were.
Valkyrie, Ohio, yeah that sounds right, thanks.
What kills me is, how can the CEO of a voting machine company think it’s a good idea to make ANY political comments like that? Is he so sure he’ll be protected by the administration that he’s completely lost even the PRETENSE of fairness? Is there no answering to ANYONE anymore? Sheesh!
As Dave Barry would say, Chimpy and the Wingnuts would make an excellent name for a band.
Except it would be a really crummy, out of tune, loud, obnoxious band that have a very loud but small following.
Sort of like Kiss.
Davis— Woody has said that he was shown OTHER classified documents- meeting notes etc- that were NOT related to Plame- but were still covered by the espionage act..
Voting machines. Give it a little time, there are so many Repug scandals and investigations it is hard to pick which one to press at any moment. Of course, in a perfect world, all would be pressed at once, with talking points and press kits ready to go. But, it is not a perfect world.
It won’t die though, which I guess is the concern. The public, and enough politicians, have found their spines and are willing to take on the Wingnuts.
marysz – the Irish neighborhoods in Flatbush are gone, but (IMO) provide good insight to Fitz’s backgound. I was a few years behind Fitz at OLHC. It was a place you learned about fairness very quickly. If you crossed someone, justice was waiting for you at the corner, and the crossing guards there made sure the no one broke it up.
I have faith in Fitz because I know where he comes from.
I asked the OHio dems just this week why they aren’t raising a stink about OH corporation Diebold, in the face of the 2004 presidential election and the overwhelming unexpected rejection of Dem issues on the OH ballot last week. They just shrugged their shoulders and said maybe they would ask for observers of the counting process.
Duh!! Can an observer “see” the inner workings of a Diebold machine?
Ohio Dems are obviously not going to do anything about Diebold. The Repub governor of OH, Taft, is a recently-convicted felon who refuses to resign. It’s going to take some other folks other than the OH dems to do something about this criminal situation.
then Fitz should nail the White House for showing him classified documents-
This is precisely why the ‘The secret of Plame’s idendity was declassified by the very act of the (Vice) President passing it along’ trial balloon was floated earlier this week.
It’s either Cheney or Bush.
The Diebold thing matters, but I think it can’t break through. I don’t think it will be lost on Conyers and his buddies, though.
But we have control of the news cycle now, and we have them on the run. Evem their attempts to push us back are backfiring.
The thing to do now is to keep this winning pressure going, and not cha ge the story. We can get to voting rights reform later.
I would add that I think Steve Gilliard has the right take on this. Diebold is not as big a story as the legal disenfranchisement of so many people. Jeralyn at Talk Left is a big opponent of felony disenfranchisement as well, which is a big issue, IMHO.
Check this link: http://stevegilliard.blogspot……ax-ii.html
EPU — They are confidential up to a point — you can use G/J transcripts, for example, to impeach a witness on cross-exam in a public trial or other public motions hearing (just as one example). But that was always going to be public knowledge at some point if it happened, anyway. As to the rest of whatever “agreement” or “compromise” has been proposed, I still don’t have a copy of the filing — once I get my hands on a copy, I’ll be able to better answer the question as to whether it truly is a compromise or simply applying the letter of the law.
If anyone has access to the federal filing system and can send me a copy via e-mail, it would be much appreciated. I will hopefully have a hard copy this evening, but if I can get my hands on one earlier, I would be much obliged to any attorney doing federal work out there who can get it to me. :)
“I went to Pratt (in Fort Greene).”
Can’t resist nitpicking here ;-) but Pratt is technically in Clinton Hill. Ft Greene ends at Vanderbilt Ave.
Diebold, Electronic Voting and the Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy
“Diebold, located in North Canton, Ohio, does its primary business in ATM and ticket-vending machines. Critics of Diebold point out that virtually every other machine the company makes provides a paper trail to verify the machineÂ’s calculations. Oddly, only the voting machines lack this essential function.”
Karen, I’m still giggling about your comments as to W getting tired of playing President. That’s how I see him, but maybe raising kids is clouding my judgement.
Nah.
Bob -I believe the CEO of Diebold said that he was committed to “delivering” the state of Ohio to GWB. And I think the guys brother is the CEO of the only other company that competes with them in making the machines. It stinks!
&y: meant no offense. Hope none was taken.
None from me, Pachacutec, I’m full of faith and patience. I think a direct quote was,”We don’t know what we don’t know.” meaning that fitzgerald has all kinds of information that he’s keeping in his underpants, so to speak, and I admire him for it. I only want to know what he’s ready to tell me, in spite of my intense curiosity and desire to see these bums lined up and slapped in chains. I just feel it will be worth the wait.
I do like to think that someone in their office is monitoring the blogs and reads a bit of what we’re thinking here, if only for entertainment value. If I were them, I might be tempted to chime in a hint or suggestion now and then ;-)
lgf: ty!
Though I admit your screen name creeps me a little – so much like “Little Green Footballs,” and we hate those guys!
As for the Diebold issue, I think it has to get attention from the Dems soon. As overwhelming as the evidence is for corruption within the administration, the issue is of major importance.
Sounds like another letter campaign is in order.
marysz: heh, except Mom’s family is half Peruvian and half Puerto Rican. But they lived down the block fomr the church in an Irish neighborhood.
You’re right, though. That world has changed.
Ah, Whiskers beat me to the Diebold comment…
…and he had better facts, too.
:-)
Lets send a care packages of
Brooklyn soul food to Pachacutec.
Your commentaries are always
appreciated.
I join those who are mystified about the dems lack of comment on the voting machine fiasco.. totally incomprehensible.
pach: “Mom’s family came from St. Vincent’s on Brooklyn Avenue. What the hell was I thinking?” You were thinking about the “old” Brooklyn, not the hip, gentrified place it is now. I went to Pratt (in Fort Greene). The old Irish neighborhoods in Brooklyn are pretty much gone.
Why is no-one in the media picking this up?
Taylor, I’m with you on this…the CEO of Diebold publicly stated before the ‘04 election something to the effect that “there was nothing more important than seeing W reelected.”
Why there wasn’t a colossal outcry from the Dems about this, I can’t imagine.
Thanks for the dope-slap, Pachacutec. You’re right. I just finished reading the open letter: sooo early-this-morning, I feel like I must have accidentally installed the “time machine” extension to my browser. Why would a columnist write something with such a short shelf life?
P.S. I’m off my usual “Friday Game” today–the game that is supposed to begin by checking findlaw for any new JWD. Earlier this week, I had one of those brain farts that tricks me into thinking it’s, you know, Sunday (when it’s actually Tuesday) and I still haven’t recovered.
P.P.S. I’m in grad school and have a TiVo; that’s how I can get by in the world not knowing what day it is.
The compromise would restrict the defense’s disclosure to the media of grand jury transcripts and personal information about witnesses, such as phone numbers and addresses, AP reported. Fitzgerald argued for the “need to preserve the confidentiality of grand jury proceedings” and pointed out that “the grand jury’s investigation is ongoing.”
Reddhedd – I thought grand jury proceedings/transcripts were always confidential, even when given to the defense in discovery. If I am wrong, I am wrong, but if I am right the word “compromise” really seems wrong.
Sorry, private PLANE accident.
Redd—
Assuming that Libby’s lawyers begin attacking Fitz publicly and trying the case in the press- do you think that Fitz will stay quiet or fight back?
Looks as though there is no Democratic plan of attack because we don’t need one. LOL
I try to relay all the news to my husband when he gets home, but lately I just hit the highlights. There’s sooooo much and it’s all good.
Taylor–CA is now challenging the Diebold machines.
The CEO of Diebold, Walden W. O’Dell is a ruthless rightwing Republican. He knew about the “flaws” in the machines. In 2004, O’Dell stated in a fundraising flyer that he would deliver the electoral votes to make Bush president. And, as we know, deliver he did.
Diebold will not allow anyone to inspect the workings of their votecounting machines, citing proprietary interests.
An interesting btw is that the former CEO of Diebold, whom O’Dell replaced, died in a mysterious private place accident.
Ok, raise your hand if you went into despair after Ftizmas, believing the Rovian spin that Fitzy was just about done and only wrapping up some loose ends.
I know you’re here!
:->
I expect apologies from those of you who told me I was wrong to expect more, over time.
On Redd’s update:
Looks as if we should expect a shit storm as Libby’s attorney pick through the piles of documents and cherry pick morsels for release to the press. The main agenda will be to embarrass Fitz and give the gooper slime machine ammunition.
Redd– I’m sure Fitz wants to protect records that don’t apply directly to Libby- but which give away the other cases he is working on. Can he do that? For example- can he redact a grand jury transcript to with hold info not germane to the Libby case?
Thanks AM — appreciate it. Copyediting on the fly is never a good idea. lol
You wrote:
Looks like whatever maneuver Booby was attempting didn’t phase Fitz one bit.
At the risk of being a jerk, I have to say this: it should be faze, not phase. I just can’t stand to see one of my favorite bloggers go on making this error.
Only a little off target.. Think Progress says that Abramoff associate Michael Scanlon has been charged with conspiring to fraudulently obtain millions of dollars from Indian tribes.
As one of the comments stated: “Indicting RepublicansÂ… like shooting fish in a barrel.”
Another case of champagne please!
Marc — I hear you. My gut tells me that he may have already been using the jury that would have been empaneled after the prior jury was discharged. Since there is always one seated, he’s be able to pick up with the new jury as they were seated. Although the Feds are very careful in how they pull juries, so stacking can be a very, very difficult thing to accomplish — even for the very manipulative, self-described evil geniuses among us. ;-)
Pach – So true.
EPU: Flatbush, after all, is the cradle of civilization.
Redd,
A grand jury that has already been empaneled can’t be stacked. At this point, Fitz would actually have to worry that convening a new grand jury would run the risk of having it tampered with from on high.
Correction: Mom’s family came from St. Vincent’s on Brooklyn Avenue. What the hell was I thinking?
I am originally from Flatbush. Does that give my posts more credibility? I hope so.
Oh, and the Yankees SUCK. How about those Mets.
Diebold got mentioned in the last thread, and since some are wandering off discussing baseball teams, I don’t mind bringing up this:
In exclusive stunning admissions to The BRAD BLOG some 11 months after the 2004 Presidential Election, a “Diebold Insider” is now finally speaking out for the first time about the alarming security flaws within Diebold, Inc’s electronic voting systems, software and machinery. The source is acknowledging that the company’s “upper management” — as well as “top government officials” — were keenly aware of the “undocumented backdoor” in Diebold’s main “GEM Central Tabulator” software well prior to the 2004 election. A branch of the Federal Government even posted a security warning on the Internet.
Pointing to a little-noticed “Cyber Security Alert” issued by the United States Computer Emergency Readiness Team (US-CERT), a division of the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, the source inside Diebold — who “for the time being” is requesting anonymity due to a continuing sensitive relationship with the company — is charging that Diebold’s technicians, including at least one of its lead programmers, knew about the security flaw and that the company instructed them to keep quiet about it.
“Diebold threatened violators with immediate dismissal,” the insider, who we’ll call DIEB-THROAT, explained recently to The BRAD BLOG via email. “In 2005, after one newly hired member of Diebold’s technical staff pointed out the security flaw, he was criticized and isolated.”
In phone interviews, DIEB-THROAT confirmed that the matters were well known within the company, but that a “culture of fear” had been developed to assure that employees, including technicians, vendors and programmers kept those issues to themselves.
The “Cyber Security Alert” from US-CERT was issued in late August of 2004 and is still available online via the US-CERT website. The alert warns that “A vulnerability exists due to an undocumented backdoor account, which could [sic: allow] a local or remote authenticated malicious user [sic: to] modify votes.”
The alert, assessed to be of “MEDIUM” risk on the US-CERT security bulletin, goes on to add that there is “No workaround or patch available at time of publishing.”
The CERT advisory referred to is a fact.
Why is no-one in the media picking this up?
Oh that Dean open letter is so this morning!
Thanks for the link, but you have to move fast with these inmates.
:->
Possible that Fitz knew about Bob all along, but did not call on him because he was not critical to his case. But when he went on Larry King and cited top secret CIA damage assessment he crossed the line? The CIA report is classified evidence in this case, which means that Bob was actively pursuing the story and injected himself into the case. Fitz then had no choice with old Bob.
BTW: OLHC is now defunct, too bad, it was a great school.
I’m the Woodward leaker..
and I’m also BitchPhd, so sue me.
Yes, all right, I admit, I am the Woodward leaker. The leak took place at a fireplug in DC.
Don’t tell my owner Karen, but I also know how to work a computer and fax. I tried to leak to Bill O’Reilly, but he only wanted to wash my back with a loofah.
emptywheel: LOL!
Tip for you all:
New John Dean column at findlaw, An open letter to Special Counsel Patrick…
If I’m right that Waas says only those who have denied being the source could be the source, then only Dick Armitage couldn’t be the source.
Oh we better let Tom Maguire down easy ;)
OT or perhaps not. But I posted this at the end of the last thread again, not realizing the blog had moved on.
Chimpy is not saveable. It doesn’t matter who he cleans out.
That tactice might (and it is an awfully big might) have worked at the very beginning of his travails, but not now.
Why so? Because the negative issues confronting Chimpy go way beyond the immediate issues of Traitorgate, lying about the war, and having a Vice President of Torture.
The war related issues might have been the beginning, but now every single wrong, inhumane Wingnut policy point is in question, and everyone but the Wingnut religious right is running.
Traitorgate and the War didn’t just open the door, it tore it down. Chimpy and all the Wingnuts have been exposed for the lying fuckups they are in ALL areas of both policy and governance. The ONLY people Chimpy can play to are right-wing religious conservative wingnuts, who will make up the last 15% of his popularity in a month or two.
Chimpy and the Wingnuts (and it is endemic and I am including Wingnuts in Congress) can’t adapt (Yes, it is Darwinian/evolutionary – isn’t that fun) to the political environment they find themselves in b/c it is not just the “people,” but also the policies those people represent. They are too hubristic to understand that point, to think perhaps they need to change course – political genuises my ass. Plus, the most important failure, Chimpy himself, is going to stay. He is the Liar in Chief, he is the Head Wingnut. Changing personnel, even the VP, doesn’t change any of that in the eyes of the American public.
If this is incoherent, my apologies in advance, but I was angry when I wrote it.
Steve: yours is an extreme case.
I suggest alcohol and sex, not necessarily in that order.
It may not cure you, but you’ll at least get laid.
Pacha–Let’s hear it for the end of the designated hitter! Ruined that game!
It figures that Clusterfuck would have been connected to an american league team–
And the Yankees— they harbor goopers (even though my cousin’s kid played for em).
I think the reason the Chainman is eating them out of house and home over at the WH is because he is pissed off that the guilty party is overseas asking for chopsticks in the shape of a fork he-he.
I have a big gut feeling that Georgie, and Georgie alone, is the leaky faucet.
marysz: My parents came from Brooklyn, and my mother’s family from St. Bridget’s in Flatbush.
Is it me, or does anyone else out there feel like a plant, in a little shop of horrors, yelling to Reddhedd and Jane, “feed us”…….
ccmask | 11.18.05 – 10:43 am | #
I join that chorus. You are doing awesome work – this is my go-to site for all things Plamegate.
My 12 year old daughter wants to become a lawyer – I think it’s time to walk her through the amazing threads here as an example of …. a) the power of the law when it’s in good hands (Fitz) and
b) the intelligent analysis of the hosts and the commenters
Keep up the good work!
“We lost control of the context.
This has to be fixed for the new War.”
Rendon
This guy Rendon is Big player in
the security intelligence complex. The
Rolling Stone article is a must read.
He’s saying this government lost control of
the Iraq story and they must do a better
job on propaganda for the next.
The blog world needs to keep their eye on Iran
and present as much truth about what’s going
on so we don”t have another fabricated
aggression. Remember the story of the laptop
computer found that contained Iran’s top
secret info on weapons development?
I know this is another thread than Deep Throat
11. In waiting for Fitz there’s time to delve
into other important matters out there as
ReddHead has done with the Patriot Act.
Fitzy’s family came from Brooklyn. His father, like my father, was probably a Brooklyn Dodgers fan.
That would explain why, in the profile I read, he is described as a Mets fan. We are the children of the Brooklyn Dodger fans, and out hatred for the pinstiped carpetbaggers in the Bronx is long held and undiminished.
:-]
I going to submit there were multiple sources feeding the Plame information to multiple “reporter” contacts or, in short, a conspriacy.
This would explain why reporters can honestly say, “Everybody knew” due to the fact everybody knew from the multiple sources telling them. The sources successfully discredited critics of the Iraq Invasion by playing the press like a $2 banjo.
What they didn’t expect was the CIA fighting back, the AG recusing himself, and the appointment of a non-DC ‘go along/get along’ investigator: Mr. Fitzgerald.
Right now the Bushies, and their press agents in the MSM, are running around trying to protect their butts with every available tool as Mr. Fitzgerald ignores the foo-foo and keeps tightening his grip on their gonads.
Pach,
I desperately need your help. I am totally addicted to FDL and several other blogs. They have taken over my life and I need to reclaim at least some of it.
On one wall I have a timeline drawn but now I have to either add on to the house to extend the wall or continue on another wall. Is a time line still valid if it isnÂ’t a straight line?
On another wall I have listed all the players and who said what and again IÂ’m running out of room. IÂ’m thinking of giving each of the major players their own wallÂ…but IÂ’m afraid IÂ’m going to run out of walls.
For the bloggers I tried listing them as to who say what first and that became a hopeless mess so I gave that up. I decided to concentrate on just a few names like you, Jane, ReddHedd, emptywheel and that seems to work better.
Is there any hope for me or is it too late?
marky, yes the pic is 5 threads down ;)
Fitz is a National League fan? Oh good. If I ever see him at Wrigley I’ll send him a beer.
And Karen Allen upthread said, “I think he would agree that the folks in Washington are the most childishly naive and foolish of anywhere he has ever worked.” I might edit that to read “most childishly naive, foolish, and arrogant of anywhere he has ever worked.” I mean, just consider the breathtaking arrogance of Bob Woodward saying his duty is to his sources, not to his readers. Who does he think he is?
Fitz is an Irishman. That question, “Who does he think he is?” uttered with exasperation and indignation, is part of our cultural heritage, for good and for ill. I can picture him at his desk after hours reading over transcripts of testimony and then throwing his hands in the air: “Listen to this guy! Just listen to him! Who does he think he is?”
pach: “Back off, Chicago.
He’s a New York product.”
Brooklyn, to be precise. Flatbush–Our Lady Help of Christians grammar school. Raised by nuns. They must be proud of him.
Well, Dick Armitage looks pretty smart about now, huh? If I’m right that Waas says only those who have denied being the source could be the source, then only Dick Armitage couldn’t be the source.
Buckle yer seat belts- It’s time for the gooper spin machine to take off on Fitz– the new Grand Jury information will be about all they need.
They’ll first sieze on the “First to leak” line from the press conference and go from there..
But will there be more indictments in my stocking on Christmas morning?
Fitz likes the Mets? Oh well, no one is perfect.
By the way, the ‘69 Amazing Mets team was Woodward’s source. Karen’s dog Whiskers told me on double super secret background.
Karen -
Bushboy, yes, he’s the Dabbler, Dilettante-in-Chief.
Former “owner” of the TX Rangers, LOL!! A 2% stakeholder whose share was bought with a sweetheart deal insider loan. They trotted his lazy ass out at the ballpark to sign autographs as “The Owner.” In reality he was a shill brought in to help fuck the taxpayers on the eminnent domain stuff for the stadium deal.
See http://utwatch.org/utimco/nativeson.html
The Play President.
—
Pach wrote: Ugh! I hate the Yankees.
I’m a Mets fan.
Being a Mets fan is a lot like being a Democrat – since 2000, both teams have been getting their butts kicked, but something tells me next year we’re all gonna be winners!
I hate to admit it, but my dog Whiskers is Woodward’s source.
Damn! I knew I never should have taught him how to use the telephone!
OT, people were talking about how awful Cheney looks these days. Does anyone have a particularly good pic illustrating this?
And I may as well go on the record now:
I was not Woodward’s source, either.
emptywheel: from last thread
FWIW, I think Hadley’s playing coy to run interference for Dick. But then I’m a conspiratorial nutcase.
That sounds just about righth to me. That whole Hadley thing was just too cute. Nobody who is guilty is that blithely coy when everyone around them is shitting bricks for fear of indictment.
Marky–Fitzgerald has worked in Chicago, NY, and other locations. I think he would agree that the folks in Washington are the most childishly naive and foolish of anywhere he has ever worked.
Hmm. You’ve got a point there, Jane.
But keep in mind the corners that Waas has been sniffing of late: primarily OVP.
Ugh! I hate the Yankees.
I’m a Mets fan.
As is Fitz, I’ll have you know.
:-]
OT but I think part of the Big Picture:
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/…..index.html
Former CIA director Stansfield Turner has labeled Dick Cheney a “vice president for torture.”
In an interview with Britain’s ITV news Thursday, Turner said the U.S. vice president was damaging America’s reputation by overseeing torture policies of possible terrorist suspects, the UK’s Press Association reported.
“I’m embarrassed the United States has a vice president for torture,” Turner said, according to ITV’s Web site. “He condones torture, what else is he?”
Turner said he did not believe U.S. President George W. Bush’s statements that the United States does not use torture.
Turner ran the Central Intelligence Agency from 1977 to 1981 under former U.S. President Jimmy Carter.
“We have crossed the line into dangerous territory,” PA quoted Turner as saying. “I think it is just reprehensible.”
Referring to Cheney, Turner said: “I just don’t understand how a man in that position can take such a stance.”
The spooks are calling in all the reserves….
rwcole
Yeah. It’s easier if you say, “Murray Waas says Dick or Hadley is lying” but I’m only 95% sure that is what Laura meant to say. This speculation business does weird things for our grammar.
This BushCo scandal is following a pattern quite consistent with the Nixon scandal and resultant presidential resignation in 1974. Apathetic media, laggard legislative branch, apologists, etc. The difference this time–the BIG difference–is the independent bloggers! The bloggers get the information out to the public and embarass and shame the mainstream media.
Bushboy likes to dabble in things. His governorship was dabbling; this presidency is a form of dabbling. He doesn’t like to work and abjectly hates any criticism. It is consistent with all we know about him that this childish person is probably willing to quit and walk away from this presidency because it isn’t fun for him anymore. However, the big interests are not willing to let him do that.
emptywheel — at this point it would be damned near impossible to not be someone who has denied being Woodward’s source.
Yeah, I wonder if what Fitz was surprised to find in DC was how STOOPID the elite there is, compared to Chicago.
Thank you, as always, for the link Pach.
I’m just waiting for the moment when the MSM actually cops onto something that I find stunning. That Jeffress helped protect the Nixon cabal. Jeffress’ best qualifications for this case are the fact that he dealt with the only Republican swamp anywhere near as deep and murky as this one. Libby (and Matalin and Conrad Black) chose as their defense lawyer someone who made his mark protecting Nixon’s wide network of thugs.
“her best source tells her that the Woody source is one of the people who has denied bein the source”
Gettin pretty tangled here ain’t it?
Questions on Woodward:
1) As info begins to leak out about the “blanket confidentiality” agreement Woody has with the White House- the journalistic community needs to talk among themselves about the bankruptcy of an agreement that turns a “reporter” into a shill who can only release what his “sources” have pre-approved. I doubt that he disclosed this arrangement when he printed his book- and THAT is entirely unethical…
2) Does Woody have security clearance or not? If NOT- then Fitz should nail the White House for showing him classified documents- which he has said they did– if SO then someone needs to raise hell about granting security clearance to a reporter for the purpose of propogandizing the White House- there is a reason for classifying that crap!
Yo, Pach–no disrespect intended, and I love NYU more than Chicago. (Hell, I root for the Yankees and I live in Chicago.) I just wanted to remind anyone who thinks Fitz is some hayseed that even a MONTH’S immersion in Chicago politics is enough to make one realize that someone like Cheney is just a punk behind the facade of “Washington insider” beltway BS.
Just read the Leonard Downie interview in one of the discussions from earlier this morning (thanks for posting that, ceci!) and can really draw only one conclusion from the whole thing.
Downie and Scottie McClellan must be on the same bowling team together.
emptywheel:
That was a brilliant post you did on Jeffress. I think I linked to it here in the haloscan swamp.
Second, that was a great catch from Laura Rozen.
It’s great on the substance, and not just because it tends to back up my suspicions from last night.
Is it me, or does anyone else out there feel like a plant, in a little shop of horrors, yelling to Reddhedd and Jane, “feed us”…….
O Boy, O boy, O Boy
Now that he’s got indictments on Conrad Black and his Hollinger cronies, Fitz can turn back to the WH gang. Fitzgiving, indeed.
I’m intrigued that Fitz is supposedly “backing off” of the joint request for a protective order in the Libby case. How does he do that – does he simply let Libby’s team file the sole reply brief in further support of the motion for protective order?
What would it mean if Fitzgerald took Woodward in front of the Grandjury to
investigate deeper into Woody? Is this a
possibility or did he get all he needed from
the testimony Woodward gave in the attorney’s
office? It would seem to me Fitz has taken
depositions from a lot of the players out there.
Now that he knows who Deep Throat 11 to be
is the Grand Jury to hand down indictment(s)
on this person and others. Sure must be
tense over there at the Executive Branch.
To those asking why Fitz might allow some documents to be released early, you might be interested in this post on Libby defense lawyer Jeffress’ past success working with Richard Nixon. You see, he won a case before SCOTUS that limited the release of the Nixon tapes to the press. Me? I’m guessing Fitzgerald has taken into account who he’s going against (on this, and, curiously, on the Conrad Black case too). He realizes that he stands a better chance of letting these be released now than later.
One more bit I’ll repeat from the dying thread below. Laura Rozen is saying her best source tells her the Woodward source is one of the people who has denied being Woodward’s source. And, it should be said, Laura is friends with everyone’s best source, Murray Waas.
Back off, Chicago.
He’s a New York product.
Bob Woodward, the pompous coward, was appearing on all the talk shows and calling Fitzgerald a “junkyard dog”. Woodward was lying low, for over two years, concealing information, hoping no one would find out about his chicanery. But somebody squealed on him to Fitzgerald.
Hey, Woodward: You’re as ass!
The Woodward Affair is more evidence that the MSM is in bed with the Cheney Administration. That’s why the work of Jane and Redd and other progressive bloggers is so valuable.
Keep up the great work!!
I love the way this keeps whipsawing back and forth, smacking the righties in the ass with each swing. I cackle with glee imagining how crestfallen they must be reading this in the papers today.
It’s thrilling to see the law — apparently, at least — being applied the way it should be: impartially, with no regard for politics or spin.
Junkyard dog? Ohh, boy.
Enjoy those sharp teeth in your asses, fellas.
CHICAGO vs. DC
Just a reminder to anyone who is not familiar with politics in my fair Windy City: Fitzgerald is definitely NOT some hayseed who won’t be able to stand the pressure of big, bad Washington. The city’s long history of political corruption, backroom deals, back-stabbing politicos, payoffs bribes and murder is the background against which everything is seen in this city–even the politics of its sports teams. The intricacies of Plamegate are fascinating, but let me tell ya–NOTHING about it is surprising if you see it through Chicago realism (not cynicism). . .and that is exactly where Fitzgerald is coming from.
Go get the bastards, Fitz.
(And ReddHedd, keep up the good work.
When this exchange occurred in Fitzgerald’s news conference, I sat up bolt upright:
QUESTION: First, will you actually prosecute this case individually yourself? And, second, have you learned anything about the way the inside of Washington works that surprises you through this investigation?
(LAUGHTER)
FITZGERALD: The latter, yes.
(LAUGHTER)
To me, coming from a man who had just undone an entire state administration for the worst kind of loathsome corruption, that was a truly remarkable response. To me, it was the center of the entire news conference.
Here’s a guy who keeps his cards about as close to his vest as any poker player in history, who suddenly says, “This card game is unlike any I have played before.” That is a startling admission. Startling.
So, what does it mean? Well, in the spirit of the post, it doesn’t mean a single good thing for the Bush administration. I don’t think he was talking about Barney Frank’s sexual preferences or John Murtha’s recommendations for the Iraq war. I think he was talking about a stinking brew of dishonesty that calls itself the 43rd Presidency of the United States.
And I think that, to the extent that Gary Cooper ever gets angry in High Noon, he is angry.
And I think he is surrounded by people who will follow him into hell.
And so I have two recommendations.
1) To Porky Karl, practice martial arts. You may need them where you’re going.
2) Don’t bet against Fitzgerald, and don’t bet against the Patriots.
I told ya to have patience with and faith in Patrick Fitzgerald. The wheels of justice are definitely turning.
Fitzgerald isn’t a puppet working for John Dean, Bob Woodward or anyone else.
So someone new, or previously silent, has flipped new information to Fitz?
And the administration’s response is “Democrats are traitors!! Trust us!!”
And Woodward kept silent because he was afraid of being found out? I mean, he said he was afraid of being subponead, but that’s crap, as you all have pointed out. So that says to me he was lying low and hoping no one would notice.
But someone did. It’s the ghost of Fitzmas past coming for your ass, boy…
Redd,
As a prosecutor, and assuming you have read the open letter from John Dean, do you have an idea of why Fitzgerald has not yet taken protective civil measures to deny further security clearances to those in the administration who have violated them?
Maybe you ran into a similar situation in your work. Why might Fitz want to allow them to stay within their current positions with full access to classified intelligence while he investigates? How could that help his case?
And, if there were a strong value to Fitzgerald in having them stay in office with access to classified information, how would a prosecutor weigh that in relation to the potential harm to the country their continued access might pose?
Redd -
Thanks. Just seems to that the ultimate goal is one of bringing charges, but the GJ isn’t the only route to that, ‘eh? Just that the intimidation factor of having to go before a GJ essentially “naked” is, well, incentivizing. That what you’re saying?
—
How long till we start talking about Fitzgiving?
ROFL
I am very close to starting a Patrick Fitzgerald fan club — the guy is simultaneously kicking the Bush admin and Conrad Black in the collective nutsacks.
It’s enough to make a man weep with joy.
Ok, so Raw Story is maintaining that Hadley is Woodward’s source. And that records exist at the NSC showing that they met. That kind of leaking suggests to me that someone is sticking the knife in – even if it doesn’t prove that they even talked about Plame….
… when whoever comes to write the history of Plamegate – what’s going to be missing forever is the trail/network of anonymous sources … how this is all playing out between the various WH parties and their lawyers is near impenetrable to the outside. as someone who has dabbled a bit in historical political research, i find that so frustrating….
BobbyG — Fitz uses the grand jury as an investigative tool as well — he might be using them to elicit testimony on the record, and under threat of perjury, from a witness who has been thus far reluctant to be completely forthcoming. Forcing that witness to either tell everything or take the fifth or risk a perjury charge. It is an effective tool for an investigation, and one that Federal prosecutors use in complex conspiracy-type cases like mob/RICO or drug network type investigations. My guess is that Fitz is getting close to cracking something on this and wants testimony — or he is, as you say, about to seek more indictments.
The article you linked to said this: “Fitzgerald’s comments about bringing proceedings before a different grand jury were contained in court filings in which he backed off seeking a blanket order to keep all documents in the CIA leak case secret.”
Does this mean we’ll get to see some of the documents? Won’t that be fun?
How long till we start talking about Fitzgiving?
“Special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald said in court filings that the ongoing CIA leak investigation will involve proceedings before a new grand jury, a possible sign he could seek new charges in the case.”
Redd, why else would you even go to a grand jury, except to seek indictments?
???
—
Redd– I think that you wrote something earlier about “special grand juries”.
I would suppose that if Fitz requests such a grand jury- it would signal something –well “special”– no?
Redd– thanks for stayin on top of this!
RW — I would assume he would just use an already empaneled one, since that is what he did last time. He always has the option of requesting that a special grfand jury be convened to be dedicated solely to this investigation, but I’m not seeing any evidence that has been requested in any court filing. Have been trying to keep a daily eye on this, so if anything shows up, I’ll let everyone know. But since he used a regular g/j last time, I wouldn’t expect him to change that unless there is something substantial that requires a change.
Redd– I see nothing in the release that says whether Fitz is planning a dedicated grand jury- or one being empaneled for other purposes- do you?
YAHOOOOO!!