First of all, many thanks to the 15, 642 people who have now emailed me John Dean’s article from last night. Yes, I did see it. And we actually had quite the discussion in the comments section, but for all those who missed it, here it is again.
Basically, Dean said to Fitzgerald:
Those who leaked the information about Valerie Wilson breached signed contracts they had made with the government. These contracts, moreover, were not to be taken lightly: They enforced profoundly important obligations to national security, on the part of the very people who were supposed to be serving that end.
Why are you not enforcing those contracts? Why have you not urged the president to sanction those who have released national security information? The president has said he would fire those who committed crimes — but breach of such profoundly important contracts, even if it does not rise to the level of a crime, is surely cause for dismissal, as well.
You should so urge the President. And if he is not willing to take appropriate action with those who have dishonored their offices, and broken their contracts, you ought to go to court and get an injunction to remove their security clearances.
Now I have tremendous respect for John Dean, but let’s just say that his politickin’ skills might not always be as polished as his legal ones.
Fitzgerald is trying to gracefully waltz through landmines. The moment any of the foaming lunacy of Joe DeGenova and his fingernails-on-a-chalkboard wife Victoria Toensing threaten to gain traction in the media and turn public opinion against him, there will be all manner of obstruction thrown in his way. Being quite humble, quiet and crafty has served him well, and what Dean is suggesting has the potential to completely derail his efforts to land the Great White Cheney. Dean’s offstage urging of him into the role of Ahab risks dooming him to Ahab’s watery fate.
I think these kind of suggestions are better laid at the feet of members of Congress. Fitzgerald has his hands quite full at the moment, and I see no reason to believe that he is not handling all the players with considerable skill as he maneuvers them into unleashing all their worst impulses on one another unfettered by any restraint.
Maybe Dean ought to be sending letters to this guy. He seems to need something to do.
(BTW, should note, thank you very much to all those 15,642 people who emailed me the Dean article, I appreciate the trouble you took to do so.)



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Jane Hamsher over at Firedoglake dismissed this effort by John Dean with a rejoinder that classified Dean’s reasoning as essentially sophmoric while displaying an unskilled misunderstanding of politics. John Dean is absolutely correct. Civil measures have been available to this president and this special counsel from the beginning. All participants in this breach of contract and trust should have been relieved of their security clearances and their jobs from the beginning. Later, purse criminal charges as appropriate. Hell, even the Kalkine case applies here, easily.
I’m glad that Murtha’s speech gave you a sense of peace about your service that was misused by the architects of the Vietnam and Iraqnam wars, NorskeFlamethrower.
I can’t imagine what it must be like to be a young person thrown into a situation of having your patriotism and service misused for Halliburton Loot and Burn and the insane PNAC and Illuminati New World Order agenda.
God bless you and give a feeling of serenity and hope to you and your fallen comrades and all of those in Iraq including the Iraqis.
I tried emailing the hag but she has a notice that she only accepts mail from constiuents – I typed in my zip anyway and was sent to the Post Office site?
Rep. Murtha also does not accept emails so I emailed my own Reps on Congress.org which used to let you write to any Congressperson but now only your own but they do publish your email in their Letters to Leaders and on your Congresspersons’ Congress.org site so others can see.
Murtha had many emails that were signed at the bottom from different states so maybe they took Democratic Underground posters advice to use false zip to congradulate him and all the emails I saw were for Murtha.
I emailed Kerry today to thank him for stating he would not stand for the “swiftboating” of Rep. Murtha and to Harry Reid to say I agree with Murtha’s 6 month withdrawal plan and to thank him for leading the remarkable Democratic charges against the Repukes that we have seen in the past few months.
I also wrote to Olberman and viewerservices@msnbc.com – http://www.Congress.org does have a media button on the left and you can write to 5 local and national media outlets at once and they will look up journalists and newscasters by name.
John Dean does note the narrow focus of the Libby indictments, but Dean must have missed the busy two weeks since Fitz announced the incictment of Libby with remarks “Oh, by the way, this investigation is not about the war in Iraq and how we got into the war…” To use the popular military term, Fitz’s press conference was the TIPPING POINT for this national discussion on the war in Iraq and how we got into the war. At the moment Fitz innocently announced what his investigation was not, he stepped back as the floodgates opened to drown BushCo-in addition, as Fitz said on Oct. 28, this investigation is not over. I think Dean will find that, measured by net effect, Fitz will find a high place of important national influence in the history of special counsels. I, for one, expect continuing high drama as well as more indictments.
I have been waitin’ 35 years ta hear a Democrat stand up for the grunts in the trenches like Murtha did (and have the rest of the Democrats stand up behind ‘im). If the Democrats had done this in 1966 45,000 of the 55,000 brave brothers and sisters would still be here and this would be such a different country.
I don’t have a lot in common politically with Murtha but I am a Viet Nam vet and he stood up for all of us yesterday and taday…redeemed is what I feel right now. I think that I ken now complete the grievin’ for those who weren’t as lucky as I and maybe forgive myself and move into the future with my kids and grandkids.
I’m sorry for blubberin on so but I hope that all you dear folks here at fdl can understand what Murtha’s statement did for us anti-war vets AND what he did for our country…the Dems don’t hafta go out in the wilderness and contemplate their navels ta come up with a withdrawl strategy, Murtha jest gave us one…the Iraq war is over folks, now we ken concentrate on gettin’ rid of the enemy.
God bless you all and pass the ammunition!!!
Susan, like your horse post – definite Fitz-esque wisdom. I apply it somewhat to my goats too!
Looks like Schmidt rather stepped on her dick, so ta speak. More repuke self-seppuku! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
tweety is obsessing on Hillary
Re hag Jean Schmidt: Don’t count on the Cincinnati papers to do anything whatsoever. They are Repub controlled rags. Balding Jean Schmidt’s Cincinnati phone number is 513-791-0381 or 800-784-6366. (The tollfree number is likely just for the Cincinnati area.)
How dare she use anything in the name of a deceased Cincinnati man as a vehicle for hurling threats at the fine patriotic hero Rep. John Murtha!
tweety is obsessing on Hillary
New thread. No straglers.
Deans comments are helpful. They are a nice counterweight to the bullshit being perpetrated by the likes of Degenova, making Fitz look all the more reasonable.
I say we need more liberals screaming about how low, slow and easy Fitzgerald is being on the administration.
not to mention all that insider info re secret govt. purchases that would have the potential to, ah, get around.
godforbid, but if the government ever fell into the hands of a group of gangsters interested in milking and defrauding govt. contracts, and otherwise trading and benefitting from govt. deals, watch out..
Tell us how you really feel, Rex.
LOL
Conservative lady called in, brought up uranium poisoning in Iraq, she’s not happy with that, they’re slowly turning.
But, we’re still being called Commies by several.
One theme is across the board, everyone is disgusted. Ya think?
WARNINGWARNINGWARNING
(venting below)
GODDAMN MOTHERFUCKING REPUBLICAN FUCKERS! ALL THEY HAVE TO FALL BACK ON IS DIRTY TRICKS! If they were on fire, I wouldn’t piss on their faces! I want to rip off their heads and shit down the holes in their necks!
FUCKING! FILTHY! AMORAL! FUCKERS!!
SUCK IT, GOP BASTARDS!
FUCKING FUCK! FUCKING FUCKERS!!
GAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHH!!
KILLKILLKILLKILLKILLKILL
Okay.
I’m better now.
according to a repub caller now, we’re all communists
glad we’ve gotten back to such rational political discourse
Taylor: Puzzled, please elaborate on the implications.
—–
well Bernanke is the guy who gave the helicopter drop speech in terms of what the Fed could do to avoid a financial crash, such as government purchases of stocks and bonds to keep those markets from crashing. and they may think or know that big economic probs are ahead…
M3 would show the growth of repo agreements, a big component of financial derivatives (itself a potential huge economic prob)..by hiding that we would have restricted ability to see the growth of such deriviatives, as if the Fed engaged in secret market supporting derivative issuance/purchase/trade….
and eurodollar are a big component of trade…again, hidden from view.
they could more easily manipulate the private markets…they’re hiding at least the potential to do that big time
Repub on Cspan call in talking about uranium poisoning of troops in Iraq – are we using the depleted uranium bombs still?
don’t call as dems, always call as others or repubs – keep them guessing
National Security Council spokesperson RAW STORY called earlier today to ask whether National Security Adviser Stephen Hadley had leaked the name of covert CIA agent Valerie Plame to Bob Woodward stated that Hadley had told his staff he did not meet Woodward on the dates in question.
She could not say whether they met on other days.
The spokesperson added that Hadley categorically denied to his staff that he was WoodwardÂ’s source on Plame, declining to go on the record by name or to provide a direct quote
(three words for me – PREVIEW PREVIEW PREVEIW)
Make that 202-585-3886
Wonder if Maureen will talk about Mata Hori Judy?
Call C-SPAN and yell “FireDogLake dot blogspot dot com!”
292-585-3886 Bush supporters (better chance to get in!)
tweety switchin over to Maureen Dowd hawkin her book– lame.
The Hags mailbox is full!!!!!!!!!
Susan,
Nice metaphor, and it fits.
It comes down to loving what you do, wanting to perfect your craft.
When I read all of Me’s stuff the most important of all was learning how this guy really likes his job.
He’s substance, not image.
Gravatar just switched over to msgop and SKELATOR w/ make-up — i mean andrea mitchel — scared the hell out of me!!
——
lol I had the same reaction
on the other hand, they did kind of balance things out with Maureer Dowd. zounds!
again – to reach Schmit’s voicemail (and to bypass the public full mailbox): Schmidt’s office is on voice mail and the voicemailbox is full but… it gives you the option to reach another extension,, then the option to select another extension by name, enter schmidt#jean# and you will get her voicemail and so can leave a message.
Puzzled, please elaborate on the implications.
I’m sure just about all journalists neither know nor care what M3 is. They just want to know they haven’t missed out on the latest cocktail parties.
(202)585-3885 C-Span if you support Dems, taking calls
sorry
did not mean to slam SKELATOR!!! ;-)
voting on motion to consider whether the measure can be brought to the floor on the same day submitted
if yes, then they go to debate of the amendment itself
Someone asked about Faux News. Well, when zapping past, they had Neil Cavuto and someone else on, with a crawl to the effect “Does Al Qaida Cheer calls for withdrawal of troops.” I can’t say I heard any of it, but let’s say it is fair to assume that Faux news thinks it does.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10…../newsweek/
A Must read ;)
maybe i missed it, but i’ve seen very little reaction to the Fed’s announcement that they were going to stop reporting the M3 money supply, including repo agreements and Eurodollars.
coming as it does with rising political scandal, debt, housing bubble woes and the like, this could be a very ominous development. or at least a very significant one
Schmidt’s office is on voice mail and the voicemailbox is full but… it gives you the option to reach another extension,, then the option to select another extension by name, enter schmidt#jean# and you will get her voicemail and so can leave a message.
foaming lunacy of Joe DeGenova and his fingernails-on-a-chalkboard wife Victoria Toensing
—-
lol, although I thought it was the other way around :)
Schmidts office aint answering the phone AND the voicemail box is full…wonder why? (heh,heh,heh)
I still want to believe that Fitz is a straight shooter, incorruptable, and will accomplish whatever right outcome he can. You don’t have to worry about Fitz ;)
He’s friggin amazing.
The Hags mailbox is full!!!!!!!!!
I agree what fools to wave emails.. they wanna SEE emails? oh yea we’ll give em emails.
Sound back. I need a cocktail. McGovern from Mass saying Murther isn’t afraid of any of you.
30 sec. without a new comment? Is the internet down? I’m panicking.
The HAG has changed her tone….I can’t wait to see the Ohio papers…
Hag’s office contact info – and link to email site:
Washington, D.C. Office
238 Cannon HOB
Washington, DC 20515-3502
(202) 225-3164
http://www.house.gov/schmidt/contact/index.shtml
I’m getting on the phone now
This http://www.cspan link might work:
http://www.c-span.org/watch/cs…..38;Code=CS
Hag is withdrawing her remarks or asking to
“In essence, what he is doing is encouraging Fitgerald to morph into another Kenneth Starr.”
No, I think he’s encouraging Fitzgerald to behave more like Owen J. Roberts, Atlee Pomerene, and Archibald Cox. He explicitly states this.
I think Dean contributed a very valuable piece of criticial analysis. I have always thought Fitz would be, and still want to believe he is, as Dean puts it, one of our last best hopes for gaining justice and vindication against the administration that has attacked this country so viciously and in so many ways. Still, it’s important to keep a critical mind about how Fitzgerald conducts this investigation. While I can appreciate that Fitz wants to lay low to avoid all the publicity and the attendant attacks, I think Dean is (perhaps rightly) suggesting that he is laying too low.
Anyway, I guess we’ll see as it plays out. I still want to believe that Fitz is a straight shooter, incorruptable, and will accomplish whatever right outcome he can. Reading Dean, though, and considering the historical record and comparison he presents, I also have to hope I’m not kidding myself.
No TV or audio here…. So I am depending on you guys for the low down ;)
Sound quality is pretty horrible on the streaming. Is anything going on now? It sounds like a bunch of hornets.
sorry
did not mean to slam SKELATOR!!! ;-)
house sound on
great democracy we have here … sheesh, everyone should want one!
Remember she is the HAG from Ohio that ran against an Vet from the Iraq war…she is pathetic
TRex – she began with a bit about how she was just at Arlington for the funeral of one of her constituents who died in Iraq and that he believed – followed by saying that a Marine emailed her (I think I have that right) to say that “Cowards cut and run but Marines never do” which led to complete chaos, her words are being stricken and from what I can see the House has cut Cspan’s sound feed but I’m not certain of that.
btw, the repubs are really into shaking stacks of paper and saying “I get emails!” … fools
Skeletor? She looks like Slade Gorton? Can we get a graphic on that, ala “Woodbill”’s photo? :)
Gooper Hag
Wearin a flag
Callin an american hero a coward.
just switched over to msgop and SKELATOR w/ make-up — i mean andrea mitchel — scared the hell out of me!!
she is sounding sympathetic to MURTHA????
sound is OFF in the house
lol suin, it’s not Comcast or my Charter cable, they do NOT want us to hear this.
sound still off here – is the net feed running sound?
What did she say?
Damn, damn, damn. No tv here. Trying to get the streaming C-Span…
Well timing is everything ~ as I posted that bit of ramble, apparently the “herd” was running amok on C-span. Sorry….carry on with the apparently very appropriate inability to comprehend the rampant gall and stupidity being exhibited by some of Washingtons finest.
I don’t get C-span, so appreciate the running blow by blow ~ back hiding behind my hay bale :)
Murtha is a Marine. Schmidt is a Marionette. So, what do marionettes do? Shill.
Tweety just showed the clip…already…now Mitchell is commenting.
Yes, they are disciplining for inappropriate words on House floor. Having a tad wee problem restoring order.
Jane – she ended with “but Marines never do” at that point it went nuts, her words are being stricken I believe but they keep cutting the sound then when they cut back it’s clear things are still nuts cause the gavel is banging then the sound goes again (unless comcast is on the fritz?)
I think they don’t want us to hear this
Jane, I think it was Cowards cut and Run But Marines STAY THE COURSE!
In his press conference announcing LibbyÂ’s indictment, Fitzgerald noted that, “Mr. Libby was the first official known to have told a reporter when he talked to Judith Miller in June of 2003 about Valerie Wilson.” Woodward realized, given that the indictment stated Libby disclosed the information to New York Times reporter Miller on June 23, that Libby was not the first official to talk about Wilson’s wife to a reporter. Woodward himself had received the information earlier.
According to Woodward, that triggered a call to his source. “I said it was clear to me that the source had told me [about Wilson’s wife] in mid-June,” says Woodward, “and this person could check his or her records and see that it was mid-June. My source said he or she had no alternative but to go to the prosecutor. I said, ‘If you do, am I released?’”, referring to the confidentiality agreement between the two. The source said yes, but only for purposes of discussing it with Fitzgerald, not for publication.
Woodward said he had tried twice before, once in 2004 and once earlier this year, to persuade the source to remove the confidentiality restriction, but with no success.
Asked if this was the first time his source had spoken with Fitzgerald in the investigation, Woodward said “I’m not sure. It’s quite possibly not the first time.” But it is the first time Woodward had contact with Fitzgerald, even though Woodward’s name shows up on various White House officials’ calendars, phone logs and other records during June and July, 2003, the time frame that is critical to determining whether a crime was committed when information about Plame’s employment was shared with reporters. Those White House records were turned over to Fitzgerald long ago.
Time Magazine
you know i like the idea of a old fashion gang fight —- hell BARNEY FRANK could kick all their asses by himself and still not mess up his hair!!!
Jane — I definitely agree with you about what an awful idea it would be for Fitzgerald to take Dean’s advice. I am, however, glad that Dean put the letter out there, in that it makes clear that Fitzgerald could legitimately be going a lot further with this than he is. It helps to dispel Woodward’s “junkyard dog prosecutor” accusation.
Thanks, Shez.inMI and siun . I hope it’s run again. It sounds great. I did send my icky rep a angry message. I appreciate you all so much.
In the kind of horsemanship I practice, we talk alot about “feel”, “timing”, “balance” and “patience”; they’re the building blocks for effective communication with an equine. I’ve also found they’re damn handy when it comes to communicating with humans.
Fitz is a walking example of all four at play in the world of humans. The way he has handled all of this is exhibiting a brilliant application of all four traits.
We have another saying: “make the right thing easy, and the wrong thing difficult” ~ seems Fitz is pretty good at that too.
He’s “round-penning” all of these idiots people; that’s where we of this persuasion horsemen/women get a horse in the center of a round pen, and then using our intent and energy, feel, timing, balance and patience ~ eventually get a horse to do our bidding. Someone who didn’t know what was going on watching from the outside, would think until we got a response that we were crazy ~ after we do, they think we’re magicians.
Sorry if that seems ot….but really it isn’t at all if you think on it. Fitz is brilliant; give him the patience, when he’s done it’ll have so been worth the wait.
They are all riled up…OMG
Jane: As always, your analysis is thoughtful, penetrating, and right on, with great turn-of-phrase. (Fingernails-on-a-chalkboard wife…wow!)
And I want to tell you that I was not one of the almost 16,000 (that must be hyperbole) people that sent you Dean’s article.
Yes Jane she did!
did they just shut off the sound feed from the house????
Shit, I went to make popcorn and missed it! Now they’re reviewing her words. Help!
Did anybody get that before they cut her off? What specifically did she say about Murtha?
“Cowards cut and run but Marines….”
Had to stop and pick my jaw off the ground.
Yes, it’s being streamed on C-Span.org
The dragon Lady was cut off…LMAO…..she is toast…
Jane, what???????
the leatherlady Jean Schmidt is being shouted down for bullshit !!!
OH MY FUCKING GOD DID SHE JUST SAY THAT??!!!
could the gop shills be any more scary — what a bunch of cowardly assholes . . .
is this cspan or WWE??
Dragon Lady Schmidth from Ohio…on..YUCK!
I like the “lightning round” format in the House; one minute here, two minutes there. Man, it sure ain’t boring!
Sagacity – the repubs submitted a resolution calling for the immediate withdrawal of US troops from Iraq and are calling it the Murtha amendment thus attempting to make Murtha look like he’s abandoning the troops, etc. The debate is heated to say the least – definitely sounds like the House of Commons.
Barney Frank up:
Frank says I am confused since I was told that they Republicans were submitting the Murtha amendment but that’s not what this is so I wonder where they got it – from Dan Rather and CBS?
Sagacity, is it being live streamed at C-Span.com? Anyone know? This is MUST SEE.
At the same time, I think pressure from the left as well as the right on Fitzgerald is actually helpful. Then it looks like he’s just being a public servant and ignoring both sides of the argument.
If he’s only getting attacked by one side, it might look like he’s taken a side against them.
Turner on tweety…
Boy DeFazio almost had an anyeurism. Go Oregon.
Filibuster hell.. it’s about to go to fisticuffs in the House on C-Span, tune in. Calling Hunters’ resolution counterfeit. Yowza all kinda of yelling now.
http://fusioner.proboards60.co…..1131129004
^^^ MEDIA RESOURCES ^^^
Send a letter!!!
Contact your rep!!! NO PATRIOT ACT!!! – NO WAR!!!
http://www.senate.gov/general/…..rs_cfm.cfm
http://www.house.gov/
I’m at work and can’t watch C-span. Somebody say what’s going on–please.
thanks Jane
i hope everybody is watching CSpan right now… great great political debate
Yeah I mostly wanted to let it slide because I do respect Dean, but I swear, 90% of my email since that article came out has been over this. I finally just had to put it to bed.
The Dems should walk out – make a strong statement about “the counterfeit amendment” the repubs are trying to bring up rather than playing this game – it just allows the repubs to spout longer.
but it is getting hot in there
C-Span: reality TV at its finest!
This was exactly my reaction when I read Dean’s comments. While I have the utmost respect for Dean, who was the only truly courageous figure to emerge from Watergate, he is absolutely wrong here.
In essence, what he is doing is encouraging Fitgerald to morph into another Kenneth Starr. That is the last thing Fitzgerald needs to do, and of course the prosecutor knows this better than any of us. Looking at Fitz’s other cases, lke that against George Ryan, we can see very clearly that he methodically pursues information and meticulously builds his case. This is the way he nails down his cases and secures convictions. Thus, Dean’s call for him to turn his method on its head makes no sense.
if he WERE half the creep.
Sorry.
Screw Dean…is anyone watching C-SPAN right now? :)
But scaring the crap out of the White House folks with what Fitzgerald could do if he we half the creep Ken Starr was might just be Dean’s intention.
You go girl…you are a role model fer my 2 collegiate daughters.