Of all of the legal protections that we hold as American ideals and as examples to other nations as embodied in our Bill of Rights, the right of habeas corpus is the only civil liberty to be held so important by the Founders that it was included in the Constitution itself. This week, the United States Senate voted to restrict that right of petition for grievance.
Such restriction was for enemy combatants held outside the United States, so why should any citizen care? Because a restriction on this fundamental right for some could mean restrictions for all of us down the line.
A right to challenge being held by the government for improper reasons is at the heart of our democracy — where such right was established to secure our rights to liberty and freedom, and to stop imprisonment of opposition candidates for political reasons.
The right of habeas corpus is our firewall against the tyranny of the majority — it dates back to the Magna Carta, which bound the king to the rule of law. To threaten habeas corpus protections tears at the very fabric of rights in this nation.
Here is why: if you are arrested under false or bogus charges, or without any charge whatsoever as reason for your detainment, you have a right to petition a court to ask that the charges against you be detailed and justified under the laws of this country. The state must justify its right to hold you under the law, or you must be set free — they cannot hold you without just cause.
What the Senate is asking is that we simply trust that our government is doing the right thing, and that they are only holding guilty persons in our name, and that the military tribunals who have been holding hearings on detainments will adequately address all constitutional problems when many of these detainees have had difficulties in gaining access to legal counsel, and that all of this being done in the name of the United States should be considered acceptable when we afford one standard of justice to our citizens and a completely different standard of justice to those we deem not worthy of it simply because they are non-citizens held in our legal custody.
The Hamdi case gave the Supreme Court an opportunity to review habeas standards for detainees. In his dissent, Justice Scalia stated "[i]f civil rights are to be curtailed during wartime, it must be done openly and democratically, as the Constitution requires…" and went on to quote Alexander Hamilton from Federalist Number 8:
"The violent destruction of life and property incident to war; the continual effort and alarm attendant on a state of continual danger, will compel nations the most attached to liberty, to resort for repose and security to institutions which have a tendency to destroy their civil and political rights. To be more safe, they, at length, become willing to run the risk of being less free."
"The Founders warned us about the risk," Scalia noted in his Hamdi dissent, "and equipped us with a Constitution designed to deal with it.
"Many think it not only inevitable but entirely proper that liberty give way to security in times of national crisis…" but, Scalia added, "that view has no place in the interpretation and application of a Constitution designed precisely to confront war and, in a manner that accords with democratic principles, to accommodate it." (Hat tip to Mark Marshall on this.)
What the Senate did this week was to thumb its nose at the Founders and their vision of legal rights for all, regardless of the political expediency of the moment. I rarely agree with Justice Scalia in philosophical terms, but in this particular matter, we see eye to eye.
And in this particular vote, the Senate is also thumbing its nose at the Supreme Court’s decision in Rasul v. Bush (warning PDF), wherein the Court upheld the US statutory adherance in 18 USC 2441 to the Geneva Conventions and the Annex to the Hague Conventions.
We join these international treaties for a reason. In this particular case, these conventions and treaties provide protections for our men and women fighting overseas (as one example), should they be taken prisoner, to ensure that they will not be tortured or treated badly. They also establish clear ground rules for legal protections, for our citizens, as well as for citizens of other nations in our custody. A lot of these principles were based on the rule of law as we practice it here in the United States — or at least, as we practiced it at the time these treaties were negotiated.
The Constitution is not a document of convenience. It is what we strive toward in this nation in terms of legal freedoms and rights, and to so blithely cast its principles aside for political expediency in the short term moment is shameful.
Further, our nation was founded on the principle that "all men are created equal." Each time we take a step away from that, we cheapen that ideal, and we trample on the sacrifices made by so many at the birth of this nation who paid dear with their lives so that their children, and their children’s children, might live in a nation that held up the idea of liberty and freedom from tyranny as a beacon to the whole of the world.
To say that an enemy combatant is less deserving of the protections afforded our citizens because he or she is not from this nation is morally wrong, let alone legally questionable under our treaty obligations.
To imprison a person for an indefinite period of time, with little to no legal recourse for determination as to whether or not that person has been lawfully held, undercutting any ability for oversight of the matter by a higher court, stands against everything this nation has fought for through the years — and it cheapens those civil liberties that we have held out to other nations as better standards than their own. We have lowered ourselves to the standards of nations we recently condemned for human rights violations, and we ought to be ashamed of ourselves for allowing this to happen.
This is not some casual decision to be made in haste, but one which must be well considered before taking any further step.
But don’t take my word for it, when even conservative legal scholars are saying that this is a bad idea. Perhaps Lindsey Graham and his pals ought to take a second look at what they are proposing.
As a result, even assuming that the relevant constitutional standard for a suspension of habeas corpus has been met, proposals to eliminate habeas review of enemy combatant classifications are premature. In fact, it is not even clear that the courts would seek to extend such review to non-U.S. citizens held overseas. The Supreme Court ruled that the writ was available to detainees at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, largely because that territory is so completely controlled by the United States. Moreover, to the extent that the Defense Department authorization amendment would effectively overrule that decision and eliminate habeas corpus review for individuals held at Guantanamo, it is unwise – legally and politically.
This is a horrible precedent to set. To say to the world that the principle of habeas corpus which began with the Magna Carta should only apply to some of the people under our jurisdiction is to set our selves up as the very tyrants we fought to overthrow at our Founding.
King George wasn’t a very good ruler back then, either.
For more excellent discussion on this issue, see Scotusblog and TalkLeft.
One further note: It occurs to me that Karl Rove may be setting this up as yet another wedge issue. I am reminded of his divisive speech wherein he stated that liberals wanted to give the 9/11 terrorists therapy and lawyers, and that the Republicans may be attempting to set this up as a "just more liberals arguing to give the terrorists lawyers" sort of argument.
To Karl and his pals, I say this: If this is your plan, shame on you and every filthy little crony you get to go along with you. The Constitution is not for your manipulation, and neither are the principles contained therein.
UPDATE: For how badly we look with all of this, even to our friends, read here.
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Habeas corpus is a human right, not merely an American right.
That you may be enabled to enter into the true spirit of the present law, it is necessary, Gentlemen, to apprise you that there is an act, made so long ago as in the reign of Henry the Eighth, before the existence or thought of any English colonies in America, for the trial in this kingdom of treasons committed out of the realm. In the year 1769 Parliament thought proper to acquaint the crown with their construction of that act in a formal address, wherein they entreated his Majesty to cause persons charged with high treason in America to be brought into this kingdom for trial. By this act of Henry the Eighth, so construed and so applied, almost all that is substantial and beneficial in a trial by jury is taken away from the subject in the colonies. This is, however, saying too little; for to try a man under that act is, in effect, to condemn him unheard. A person is brought hither in the dungeon of a ship’s hold; thence he is vomited into a dungeon on land, loaded with irons, unfurnished with money, unsupported by friends, three thousand miles from all means of calling upon or confronting evidence, where no one local circumstance that tends to detect perjury can possibly be judged of;—such a person may be executed according to form, but he can never be tried according to justice.
I therefore could never reconcile myself to the bill I send you, which is expressly provided to remove all inconveniences from the establishment of a mode of trial which has ever appeared to me most unjust and most unconstitutional. Far from removing the difficulties which impede the execution of so mischievous a project, I would heap new difficulties upon it, if it were in my power. All the ancient, honest, juridical principles and institutions of England are so many clogs to check and retard the headlong course of violence and oppression. They were invented for this one good purpose, that what was not just should not be convenient. Convinced of this, I would leave things as I found them. The old, cool-headed, general law is as good as any deviation dictated by present heat.
That’s Edmund Burke, in 1777, defending Americans against the suspension of habeas corpus by the English Parliament in 1777. Read the whole thing.
Dear friends,
Just a short note — commenting “New thread” rather irritates me because sometimes a submission deserves large discussion. In this case, I think the quality and length of Reddhead’s contribution is cheapened by declaring “New thread.”
Why not simply let threads have their own life and scope?
I make a plea to please refrain from attempting to artificially control the discussions.
Thank you,
heeee BobT. I’m going to take that as a compliment, since my poor brain is still tired after working on this piece yesterday. ;-)
Gee, Could you possibly be more cogent?
Don’t forget the Report of the Red Cross in February 2004 which included the statement that certain Coalition Forces military officers estimated that between 70% and 90% of the persons deprived of their liberty in Iraq had been arrested by mistake.
If this is any indication of the situation at Guantanamo Bay, then it is likely that many detainees are being held to conceal the lack of justification for their detention.
new thread
New thread.
Redd, thanks for this post. I’ve felt since 2001 that this administration was intent upon vacating every treaty ever made, that the neo-cons’ strategy defined in the PNAC white paper, “Rebuilding America’s Defenses”, intended implementation of an imperialist agenda not unlike that of Britain pre-Revolution. It has been clear to me that the sole reason for holding detainees offshore has been to act in an extra-constitutional fashion against individuals (in contrast to nation-states, so as to avoid the challenge of treaty enforcement).
It is fear-inducing to see the UK contemplating holding detainees for 90 days; has the neo-con agenda now corrupted a formerly reformed imperialist nation? This is a serious flaw in the neo-con agenda; as the world’s sole superpower, the US sets the tone for all other nations’ foreign policies towards us and towards others. Moving to usurp an enumerated right grants similar permission to those countries whose leanings towards democracy are tenuous — undermining substantively the objectives of the neo-con agenda (strengthening ties to allies and promoting political and economic freedom).
Unless, of course, the real neo-con agenda is the spread of corporatism — greater rights and freedoms for corporations than for individuals, regardless of the country of origin. This is a point upon which progressives must hammer going into the next election year, that the founding fathers intended this: humans have God-given rights, not corporations, and not the military-industrial complex to which corporations may belong.
Here’s my prediction of the political future.
Bush will have a rough 06. He will sometimes rise above 40% in the polls and then sink back down again.
He will discover that his “agenda” is blocked by goopers seeking re-election- and he won’t get much down.
In the meantime, he will have to navigate through an Iraq war that won’t get any better, a bursting housing bubble, release of videos of torture, a growing defict, the Rove mess, and growing turmoil within the gooper party.
In 2006- goopers will lose seats in both houses- but probably maintain nominal control in both- perhaps a two seat margin in the senate and a seven seat margin in the house.
In 2007- the gooper run of presidential candidates will bring a prez who is already a lame duck to his knees. He will be a laughing stock.
The political action will be mostly on the gooper side as the party tries to chose between McCain who is a likely winner and George Allen- who will be the darling of the snakehandlers.
The primaries will be a repeat of 2000- with South Carolina giving Allen the nomination.
Dems will flirt with Hillary- but will go with Warner in the end- as the deficit will be choking america.
Warner will soundly defeat Allen in an all Virginia race and bring a new dem congressional majority with him.
Goopers will be screaming that they need to re-design the Gooper party- and the whole cycle will begin again.
2000 plus entourage that followed Bush to Argentina…….or, a ton o’ shit!
Bush is now in Hell’s Bathroom.
Suspending habeas corpus rights for any individual that the Government deems an “enemy combatant” is going down a slippery slope. Cracks such as this which remove the most basic rights to be formally charged of a crime and the ability to defend against such charges lead inexorably to fascism.
Elected officials who vote for such changes to the law must be removed from office. We must start first with the Dem 5 who by supporting such changes to the most fundamental rights of an individual are demonstrating their fascist tendencies.
Challengers to the Dem 5 needed !!
Me:
On the money! Besides nobody is questioning the price tag for all these failed foreign “photo ops”. Case in point, the 2000 plus entourage that followed Bush to Argentina.
http://www.xenophilia.com/pics/protest/goering.jpg
I just call them criminals. Everyone understands what criminals are. And I use that poster a lot.
Anyone notice that there’s a new sherrif in town?
Gooper moderates who for years have been seeing themselves as doomed to extinction by the rightward lunge of their own party- are suddenly in the driver’s seat- nothin happens lest they say so.
It’s actually a huge political sea change.
If president clusterfuck needs to go say “mother may I” to the moderates in his own party- it will change his entire legislative agenda- which currently is headed for the crapper.
Oh… Someone said “ho hum the president is in asia” – But this will be three foreign policy failures in three weeks. The President has no foreign policy (well illegal detention and torture of course)…
Think about it… They rioted in Argentina. No trade agreement.
The Mideast conference for democracy practically threw the US out of the conference. No democracy program resulted.
Now Asia… And it won’t be any different than South American or the Mideast.
Bush’s foreign policy is fucked. And three strikes in a row will send a message to people with international interests… People with money interests. It works against his base.
Another -2 hit points in the polls.
I see another 5-7 point drop coming for BushCo in the next week or two. He will be in the impeachment zone soon… And there has to be more dirt out there that we have not seen yet… Our side is not out of ammo.
That big galoot O’Rielly is getting a lot of pressure due to his invitation to AlQaeda to blow up non-koolaid drinkers. From Daily Kos, this diary is up:
Why does Bill O’Reilly want to kill my child?
A snipette:
I watched the little boys kick the soccer ball and took in the sails on the blue water and felt the warm November air.
And then I thought again: Bill O’Reilly invited Al Queda to come and blow us into bits.
There was some commotion on the field. The goalie was hurt, so I switched in my own son, seven years old, big blue eyes and soft brown hair, a bright smile and a sweet disposition. He looked good, manning the crease, waiting for the next rush from the other side.
And then I thought: Bill O’Reilly says to hateful zealots: come kill my boy.
Bill, he’s a good kid. He’s really sweet. He plays hard on the soccer field; loves the struggle. But he always says “good game” to the other team after it’s over and he never plays dirty.
Read the whole diary here:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyo…../15320/117
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10…../newsweek/
Newsweek is all over this.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6896015/
Can the U.S. ever torture prisoners?
I think this is worth another 3 point drop in the polls. Someone said it was a slow news day… But the torture story is has legs and is running.
The only way WWII comparisons work in this is if you think of US as being the Nazis
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10…../newsweek/
How Terror led America toward Torture
Enough of this CRAP about WWII the two cases aren’t even remotely comparable and its high time everytime they start that garbage that people do what I do and point out that the two aren’t even remotely comparable in very explicit terms
“Such restriction was for enemy combatants held outside the United States”
“A foreign national who is captured and determined to be an enemy combatant in the world war on terrorism has no more right to a habeas corpus appeal to our courts than did a captured soldier of the Axis powers during World War II,”
Reddhead: isn’t the issue the fact that there is no agreed-upon definition of “enemy combatant”, or for that matter, “enemy” or “combatant”?
Lieberman is right about enemy *soldiers* — but in WWII it was pretty easy to define what a soldier was: he wore a uniform of a country with which the US was formally at war. That’s not the case here. Anyone theoretically can be an “enemy combatant,” including an American citizen.
Lieberman’s use of a WWII analogy is petty demagoguery. He’s comparing a legal, declared war with conventional soldiers to an amorphous, undeclared war with no end or purpose (and a superficially conventional aspect, in Iraq). There’s no comparison at all, but he never fails to attempt to fuse the necessary (WWII) with the optional and strategically disastrous (Iraq/GWOT).
http://www.slate.com/id/2130028?nav=nw
The double standard that underlies our torture policies.
jlr
didn’t know about the renditions. I wouldn’t worry about that too much — our SoS is over there right now as we speak ’splainin’ to them our human rights….
On a serious note, I’ve always applauded Canada’s courage in not sending troops to Iraq.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10…../newsweek/
Front Cover of Newsweek ;)
The Truth about Torture
It’s a pretty bland sunday politically. Not much goin on in the papers or on many websites.
The Pres is in Asia apparently- but no reports coming out of there yet.
No news from Fitz- so that story line is receding.
A little on conflict within the White House- but nothing earthshattering.
The news from Iraq is more of the same- bad- so that’s not news anymore either.
It’s OK if the fitzy thing falls below the radar for a while- but the “Fire Rove story” still has lots of legs. Hope we see it climbing back up the sales charts.
President Clusterfuck’s in a trap of his own making.
If Rove didn’t tell him the truth- then he needs to fire Rove- if Rove DID tell him the truth- then he needs to fire himself.
The White House continues to bob and weave on the issue-but those are the only two options and reporters know it.
Clusterfuck’s in a world of hurt- all that’s needed is for reporters to administer the death blow.
Maggie: “Canada is holding about a dozen people suspected of aiding and abetting al Queda but haven’t committed any specific crimes. “
Yup. And Canadians have been rendered to Syria and (probably) elsewhere, likely with the complicity of Canadian intellegence services. Major stonewalling going on about this.
Not easy having an independent foreign policy – though I’m glad we stayed out of Iraq.
Wilson,
Thank you for your dedication to being the “new thread” monitor!!!
Today’s Washington Post doesn’t mention Libby going after reporters, he seems to be going back to the faulty memory defense. I love the trial balloons that get floated out and don’t stick. Also, old people seem more confused by Medicare than anything since the Florida ballots.
Quentin,
If you’re around today, to answer your question about where Quentin Langley is from, this is from his article which was linked to here a few days back:
Quentin Langley is editor of http://www.quentinlangley.net and an academic at the University of Cardiff, Wales.
he he he John Gabriel. I hear you and agree too. I visit and comment on some anti-Bush blogs one good sign (I hope) is that people are getting furious and not afraid anymore to call their repiglican and or fundie trolls on their lies and smears and to use lots of naughty words when they do it. I’ve done some very enjoyable flaming myself on occasion.
Reading about this, especially that Economist article with that photograph makes me feel physically ill. The way we have treated the people at Gitmo and our other renditions is so atrocious that they have to hate our guts permanently. They’re never going to be released, mostly for fear that they will then act against us. They are going to live the rest of their lives in (extremely unpleasant) custody with no legal recourse.
What I find fascinating about the acceptance of this are the mental gymnastics that a person must go through in order to justify it. The pretzel-contortion of one’s values and beliefs and psyche in order to get to a place where it is “OK” to seize someone under dubious circumstances, pronouce him guilty without any kind of a legal proceeding, and hold him for the rest of his life is quite simply embarrassing.
People in power should be above that, shouldn’t they?
I don’t know whether you know this, but Canada is holding about a dozen people suspected of aiding and abetting al Queda but haven’t committed any specific crimes. They are just in legal limbo, although the conditions are nothing like Gitmo, etc., with no resolution in sight.
Frank: “I’ve been trying to imagine how this must look to the other 6 billion people on this planet who aren’t americans. “
Well, I’ll tell you how it looks to this person who lives not far from that long northern border – I’m moving past angry and scornful into being shit scared.
sonate: “Why are we hearing so much about citizens versus non-citizens today?”
Because the Republicans get some of their votes by appealing to bigotry and xenophobia,
.
Pat: “A big problem we have though is that word “fascist.” … I like to call them extreme right-wingers or better yet ‘authoritarians’…”
I like to call them ‘assholes’, or better yet ‘fuckwits’.
‘Wingnut’ works real good too.
Seriously, though, I do understand where your coming from. Calling someone a fascist, even if true, has become a tired cliche, like the long-haired 60’s hippie radical.
‘Authoritarian’ really doesn’t quite cut it either — it sounds you’re complaining about your dad.
Part of the problem is… assholes, fuckwits, and wingnuts work pretty well for me. And scum. Scum is another good one.
However, none of them are really appropriate for polite discourse.
The other part of the problem is that any accurate word or description of the wingers will make it sound like you’re demonizing them. Because they are demons — evil, arrogant, cunning, but not too bright.
I know, you’re probably thinking something along the lines of “Republicans are demons? That’s not fair. What did demons ever do to you?”
I suppose I could call them ‘Randians’, but I suspect people would just look at me funny and say “Republicans don’t have sex.” Which is true — they have a complicated cell division and molting cycle that requires darkness, dust bunnies, and slime. After that it gets kinda gross. TMI, really.
Ah, well. Perhaps ‘Authoritarian’ is best after all. It certainly beats ‘fat cats leeching life out of the poor and middle-class’ — which probably carries a twinge of class-consiousness to it.
Or ‘Twits’.
Actually, you know, now that I think of it, I kind of like ‘Twits’…
.
“I agree about the neocons that’s what they are alright. A big problem we have though is that word “fascist.” It’s been debased by being constantly bandied around.” pat
Agreed. Fascist does not begin to express the depth of vileness and depravity that neocons represent and my dictionary is falling apart in the search for adequate words.
Today’s WaPo ombudsman has this interesting little tidbit:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..00956.html
“A Barton Gellman story on Oct. 30 about the Valerie Plame leak case prompted a lot of mail asking why The Post, between editions, dropped a reference to Vice President Cheney, whose chief of staff, I. Lewis Libby, resigned after being indicted on charges of perjury and obstruction of justice. The reference that was dropped said that Cheney instructed an aide to alert reporters of an attack launched that morning on Wilson’s credibility by Ari Fleischer, then the White House press secretary.
I looked into this and found that the motive had to do with more reporting. National Editor Mike Abramowitz said: “Bart’s piece gathered and synthesized a lot of information on deadline, with contributions from many Post reporters. Adding, cutting and moving that information around is a normal part of the editing process. This time it was more visible than usual because it happened late and between editions. We decided . . . that it warranted more time and space than we had available that night. Readers should stay tuned.”
“Readers should stay tuned”…hmmm. If they’re saying that about Gellman (an excellent reporter), and considering today’s other WaPo story about Libby, this could be a GREAT week.
Camp Atterbury here in central Indiana held Italian POWs during WW2 and was then designated a concentration camp for commies. Nowadays its bustling as a training camp for National Guard troops being readied for Iraq…
Redd:
A superb post! An insightful reference to the fact that the framers put habeas corpus in the text of the constitution. Other rights such as free speech, religious freedom and freedom from unreasonable searches, were “afterthoughts” included in a set of 10 amendments. This gets to the heart of how important the framers thought habeas corpus was.
A question. The constitution (nor the bill of rights) rarely mentions “citizens.” Rather, the descriptor more often used is “persons.” Why is some distinction being made today when there is no apparent distinction in the Constitution. If the framers wanted to distinguish citizens from other “persons,” they could — and did — do that. Why are we hearing so much about citizens versus non-citizens today?
” Ihave listened to a guy on a talk radio show for a long time now speak about camps here in the US already set and ready to go for US citizens and of “W”’s plan to put the country under martial law following some bogus threat.”
Those camps were created under the McCarren Act, a long long timeago.
This country’s propensitytoward’s totalitarian rule has always been in play, but never more so than now.
Peter Watkins 1971 film Punishment Park shows how these camps might operate if put to use.
Semblance
“Why suspend the habeas corpus in insurrections and rebellions? The parties who may be arrested may be charged instantly with a well defined crime; of course, the judge will remand them. If the public safety requires that the government should have a man imprisoned on less probable testimony in those than in other emergencies, let him be taken and tried, retaken and retried, while the necessity continues, only giving him redress against the government for damages. Examine the history of England. See how few of the cases of the suspension of the habeas corpus law have been worthy of that suspension. They have been either real treasons, wherein the parties might as well have been charged at once, or sham plots, where it was shameful they should ever have been suspected. Yet for the few cases wherein the suspension of the habeas corpus has done real good, that operation is now become habitual and the minds of the nation almost prepared to live under its constant suspension.” –Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 1788. ME 7:97
I agree about the neocons that’s what they are alright. A big problem we have though is that word “fascist.” It’s been debased by being constantly bandied around.
I like to call them extreme right-wingers or better yet “authoritarians” in conversation and writing just to get around the hurdle of “yeah yeah fascist yawn” as a bonus most Americans don’t like the sound of “Authroitarian” even if they don’t exactly know what it means.
recall that Padilla wasn’t arrested in a far-off foreign country firing weapons at US troops. He was arrested in Chicago carrying nothing harmful. Padilla is a US-born citizen and now held indefinitely without recourse to American courts solely upon the say-so of the infallible Preznit.
Anything they can do to Jose Padilla, they can do to you.
Neocon is the New Fascism.
Seriously. Think about it.
50 years from now, will people still be comparing their corrupt regimes to the Italian Fascists of the 1930’s and 40’s, to the American McCarthyites of the 50’s, or even the Nazi’s?
It’d be like comparing George Bush to Jefferson Davis. Too dated.
No, they’ll compare themselves to the Neocons of today, to the doctines of George Bush, to American exceptionalism, preemptive military action, oligarchy, indefinite detention, abrogation of the Geneva Conventions, abrogation of international treaties, the use of chemical weapons, the big lie, broadcasting classified and personal information to quell dissent, manipulation of intelligence for the purpose of propaganda, propaganda in general, fraudulent elections, cronyism, smearing dissenters as traitors, smearing political opponents as child molesters (yep, that’s in the Rove playbook), using coded bigotry to motivate your base, looking the other way while corporations create artificial energy shortages to increase profits, no-bid contracts for all your friends/campaign donors, cutting services to the poor to finance tax cuts for the rich, corrupting the courts by packing them with radical conservatives who ignore stare decisis and make law from the bench, leading a country into war under false pretenses, secret off-shore prisons, revocation of habeas corpus, defending torture, approving torture, using torture… shame.
See? It’s really true.
Neocon is the New Fascism.
.
“If we – and our elected representatives – do not speak out now, loudly and forcefully, it may not be long before they come for the rest of us.” pb
Remember Jose Padilla? A U.S. citizen held for almost four years now in a legal black hole with no rights,no review,no due process.
Anonymous
That was moi. Not enough caffeine yet.
“If we – and our elected representatives – do not speak out now, loudly and forcefully, it may not be long before they come for the rest of us.” pb
Remember Jose Padilla? A U.S. citizen held for almost four years now in a legal black hole with no rights,no review,no due process.
I had a long discussion about this with RWCole in the comments to “Drawing a Line at Lies” below. I made the point that Europeans even those who’re normally very pro-US are both horrified and contemptuous of how America is behaving. RW came back with some good points but I find them unconvincing. I spend a lot of time here what I’m finding is that the re-election of Bush and the constant “fuck you” towards the allies has taken a toll. going round talking to my US colleagues who’re “embedded” *g* here they all agree that we’re seeing a sea-change in how the US is viewed. I agree with some of his points but we’ll never be either trusted or admired again that has big implications for cooperation. We’re not the only ones who can raise a finger at our allies and just look after #1 after all.
We need to get our act together.
Reddhed strikes again! What a thoughtful review.
The Constitution isn’t part of their lexicon, in a general way.
-Problem: The power to make war belongs to Congress.
-Solution: Con the Congress with false information.
-Problem: The Constitution supports separation of church and state.
-Solution: Faith based initiatives outside of Congressional oversight.
- Problem: The Judiciary deals with rights.
-Solution: Constitutional amendments, stack the judiciary.
And so on…
The Habeas Corpus issue is a glaring one. And Torture? What about [all men are created equal]?
At the risk of drifting into Tom Clancy Land, our government is in the hands of neoFascists in clerical robes. Fascism defined: Rule of the Powerful…
i really should rub the sleep from my eyes before posting
vigilance
ReddHedd
As usual – straight to the point – not talking point.
and aquart – even more direct
with all our belemishes, the rule of law has triumphed in this nation.
it has not been so threatened since the detention camps in ww2
vililance is eesntial
In the 50s, when the FBI came in the middle of the night for my grandfather, habeas corpus brought him home again.
My family members were arrested, detained, murdered by the Nazis, the Soviets…but habeas corpus brought my grandfather home.
I’ve always been proud of that.
very good post, Reddhedd, thanks so much. and well thought out and written.
ReddHedd: “Such restriction was for enemy combatants held outside the United States, so why should any citizen care?”
Actually, Graham’s proposed doesn’t even limit itself to enemy combatants captured or held outside the US. Here’s a letter I sent to NYT today (I doubt they’ll publish it) explaining why:
To the Editor,
In response to your November 12, 2005 editorial, “Playing With Fire”: Whether or not one agrees with the intended purpose of Senator Graham’s proposed amendment S.1041, it must not be allowed to become law in its current form.
It grants far too much power to the executive branch. Senator Graham’s proposed amendment states (in part):
“(e) No court, justice, or judge shall have jurisdiction to consider –
“(1) an application for a writ of habeas corpus based on policies established by the Secretary of Defense under section 1071(a) of the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2006 filed on behalf of an alien who is detained by the Secretary of Defense as an enemy combatant; or
“(2) any other action, challenging any aspect of the detention of an alien who is detained by the Secretary of Defense as an enemy combatant.”
Even if one believes that the US should be permitted to deny access to our courts, for habeas corpus or “any other action”, to non-citizen enemy combatants captured and held on foriegn soil under US control, and I do not, the wording of this amendment is entirely too broad, and creates unintended consequences.
For instance, under this amendment, a non-naturalized resident could be labeled an ‘enemy combatant’ by the executive branch and held indefinitely by the military — without the protections of the Geneva Convention, and without access to our courts or any means to present a defense — merely for being critical of the administration’s policies.
Furthermore, Senator Graham’s proposed amendment undercuts his own support of Senator McCain’s anti-torture measures by prohibiting anyone from filing an action “on behalf of” any non-citizen who has been, or is being, tortured.
No one held by the US without the protections of the Geneva Conventions, under which one is permitted to mount a defense though military tribunal, should be denied the right to defend themselves in our courts.
Very Truly Yours,
John Gabriel
P.S. For the Fact Checkers — Section 1071(a) of the National Defefense Authorization Act only modifies Senator Graham’s proposal by restricting it to military detention, subject to whatever interrogation techniques are approved by the Secretary of Defense.
Here is Section 1071(a) in its entirety:
SEC. 1071. POLICY ON ROLE OF MILITARY MEDICAL AND BEHAVIORAL SCIENCE PERSONNEL IN INTERROGATION OF DETAINEES.
(a) POLICY REQUIRED- The Secretary of Defense shall establish the policy of the Department of Defense on the role of military medical and behavioral science personnel in the interrogation of persons detained by the Armed Forces. The policy shall apply uniformly throughout the Armed Forces.
From The Library of Congress website:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/…..l:e359341:
(last colon is part of the web address)
.
“First Bush and Gonzales came for the terrorists, but I was not a terrorist, so I did not speak out. Then they came for the enemy combatants, but I was not a combatant, so I did not object. Then they came for the protestors resisting “free speech zones” near Bush campaign rallies, but I was not a protestor and so I only voiced my unease.
If we – and our elected representatives – do not speak out now, loudly and forcefully, it may not be long before they come for the rest of us.”
http://www.commondreams.org/cg…..110-33.htm
I have listened to a guy on a talk radio show for a long time now speak about camps here in the US already set and ready to go for US citizens and of “W”’s plan to put the country under martial law following some bogus threat. I have believed that this was the ravings of a paranoid man. Since the Katrina disaster and the push for federalizing troops to contain ANY kind of disaster and the administrations constant warning that the next disaster is just around the corner (terror, flu pandemic, natural disasters)–I have had to rethink my position. I am beginning to feel somewhat paranoid myself regarding this administration. I have seen comments on FDL about “W” suspending the constitution–what exactly would that take? I’m not so sure that he isn’t capable of doing something like that.
Capitol Hill Blue is always good for the latest look at Bush paranoia
http://www.capitolhillblue.com…..7640.shtml
—-Wary White House aides, under constant scrutiny from a paranoid Bush administration hell bent on stopping leaks, have turned to a technique used by drug dealers and criminals to avoid detection – prepaid, disposable cell phones.—-“ItÂ’s about the only way we can ensure any privacy,” one bitter White House staffer told me this week. “Our office and home calls are monitored along with our normal cell phones.”—–White House sources tell us that even senior aides like embattled Presidential advisor Karl Rove uses the prepaid phones to avoid having certain calls show up on call logs or other records that might be subpoenaed.—-
-
some interesting new Plame details: http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..85_pf.html
So what do we do about the habeus issue- and will it go back to the Supreme Court ? I guess I am confused as to whom we contact and what do we do ? and by the way this is off subject but isn’t it Monday Nov.14th the day that the GOP is suposed to have info for Harry Reid ?
I guess everyone here remembers this article….good reread for a Sunday Morn
CIA Told to Do ‘Whatever Necessary’ to Kill Bin Laden
By Bob Woodward
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, October 21, 2001; Page A01
http://www.pulitzer.org/year/2…..02101.html
===
“We canÂ’t have leaks of classified information. ItÂ’s not in our nationÂ’s interest.” – President George W. Bush, 10/9/01
Yeah we are spreading Democracy across the globe alright:
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/…..index.html
MANAMA, Bahrain (AP) — A U.S.-backed summit meant to promote political freedom and economic change in the Middle East ended Saturday without agreement, a blow to U.S. President George W. Bush’s goals for the troubled region
Frank… I would put that post into an email and send it out to the MSM. Scroll ^ up ^ for ^ the Media Resources link ;)
I like my turkey well done.
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3036697/
Hardball has good articles, and they have a top story on what the White House was saying about pre-war intel, focusing on Cheney.
The WH has been caught lying to the public a couple of times about the connection between al-Queda and Iraq. The _current_ White House lie is that they made no connection…
Basically, the speech of the other day where Bush attacked critics for “re-writing history” was an attack on the Hardball story it looks like.
I have a hard time thinking about this stuff I think so I may be wrong here, but I’ve been trying to imagine how this must look to the other 6 billion people on this planet who aren’t americans. Basicaly we are saying to the rest of the world that we have the right to kidnap anyone, from anywhere in the world, hold them in secret for years without any legal recourse, without any of their family or loved ones knowing where they are, and have the CIA torture them, and if they die the CIA officer may be promoted while an internal investigation takes place, which as the record shows is unlikely to apply any punishment, but if it does find fault will not seriously punish anyone.
Tens of thousands of people go missing every year worldwide. Since many of the people we have held have had nothing to do with terrorism, that means that any time anyone in the world goes missing even if the family knows for sure that their loved one had nothing to do with terrorism, can’t be sure that their father or mother or son or daughter or brother or sister or wife or husband isn’t being tortured to death in some secret American prison somewhere.
Boy if we thought the rest of the world hated us before…
And we reelected this guy?
For Whom The Bell Tolls
No man is an island,
Entire of itself.
Each is a piece of the continent,
A part of the main.
If a clod be washed away by the sea,
Europe is the less.
As well as if a promontory were.
As well as if a manner of thine own
Or of thine friend’s were.
Each man’s death diminishes me,
For I am involved in mankind.
Therefore, send not to know
For whom the bell tolls,
It tolls for thee.
John Donne –
-
President Clusterfuck has several bad things to look forward to- including the possible release of more torture pictures..
Happy Thanksgiving President Clusterfuck!
MPs organising the campaign to impeach Tony Blair believe they have enough support to force a highly damaging Commons investigation into the Prime MinisterÂ’s pre-war conduct.
A renewed attempt to impeach Blair over claims he misled parlia ment in making his case for war against Iraq, will be made in the Commons within the next two weeks.
The impeachment process effectively stalled last year when just 23 MPs signed a Commons motion. But the scale of the government’s defeat on its anti-terror legislation last week – where 49 Labour MPs rebelled – has galvanised the momentum for proceedings to be invoked.
Organisers say they are expecting 200 cross-party signatures, including those of former government ministers, to force the Commons to set up a Privy Council investigation that would examine in detail the case for impeachment against Blair.
The size of the Labour revolt, allied to unified opposition benches, is said to have changed the climate inside the Commons.
SNP leader, Alex Salmond, one of the key figures in the impeachment campaign, said he now believed that the cross-party attempt to bring the government to account over the Iraq war “would become more urgent than predicted problems associated with social legislation in England and Wales”.
So the brits are considering impeaching Blair for lying to parliament about the war.
That would be an interesting case for americans to watch- no?
I recently read the military tribunal transcript of the eight 1942 nazi sabouteurs who were dropped off by U-boats on long island and florida with explosives.
http://www.soc.umn.edu/~samaha…..exnazi.htm
The (presidential-appointed) lawyer for seven of them, Col Royall (who became the last Sec. of war) did petition the Supremes for habeus corpus. The Supremes ruled for FDR but didn’t release their actual opinion till two months after 6/8 were executed.
How curious. They must have realized what the outcome would be from the beginning.
WaPo
Libby May Have Tried to Mask Cheney’s Role
In the opening days of the CIA leak investigation in early October 2003, FBI agents working the case already had in their possession a wealth of valuable evidence. There were White House phone and visitor logs, which clearly documented the administration’s contacts with reporters.
And they had something that law enforcement officials would later describe as their “guidebook” for the opening phase of the investigation: the daily, diary-like notes compiled by I. Lewis “Scooter” Libby, then Vice President Cheney’s chief of staff, that chronicled crucial events inside the White House in the weeks before the identity of CIA operative Valerie Plame was publicly disclosed.
The investigators had much of this information before they sat down with Libby on Oct. 14, 2003, and first heard from him what prosecutors now allege was a demonstrably false version of what happened. Libby said that, when he told other reporters about the CIA operative and her marriage to Iraq war critic Joseph C. Wilson IV, he believed he had first learned the information from Tim Russert of NBC News and was merely passing along journalistic hearsay. This was an explanation made dubious by Libby’s own notes, which showed that he previously had learned about Plame from his boss, Cheney.
In the aftermath of Libby’s recent five-count indictment, this curious sequence raises a question of motives that hangs over the investigation: Why would an experienced lawyer and government official such as Libby leave himself so exposed to prosecutor Patrick J. Fitzgerald?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..01085.html
Why haven’t the originalist, conservative law professors latched on to this? Where is Volokh, Althouse, Hewitt in coming to Habeas’ rescue?
http://fusioner.proboards60.co…..1131129004
Be ^ sure ^ to ^ write ^ about ^ this to the press ;)
I have mass mailed 5 letters today… That WH memo that iheartjane! linked to made a nice piece of work… And I snarked on Bill Kristol over at the WeakStd with it… LOL, it was good snarking ;) If I did not hate Bill so much I would feel sorry for him… Purser on the sinking battleship BushCo and he comes across completely clueless… His story has changed about 5 times in as many weeks.
Redd, this was an exceptionally well reasoned and convincing case. This is the most cogent and hella conclusive vindication I’ve seen yet. Kudos.
Isn’t it part of our treaties with other nations that, if a citizen is arrested in another country, that the person is subject to the laws of that country? I know there are some things about diplomatic immunity, but that’s for official reps of a govt., not normal citizens.
And, if a foreigners falls under our laws for committing a crime, isn’t he also, by these treaties, afforded the same protection under the law as a citizen of that country would get? You know, let’s say that I commit oh, arson in Germany. So if I get caught, I can get arrested and be tried. But, during that process, I get treated the same as a German citizen would. I get the same rights, say to an attorney, or for habeas corpus. Same jail conditions. Etc.
I’m not a lawyer, and I know it’s much more complicated than this, what with extraditions, and various crimes being exempt or whatever. But it seems like this is close to how it’s worked, and I’ve thought it must be in the treaties. Redd, or any of our other lawyers?
Just want to insert a little reminder for those who might not be aware of it:
Right in the Constitution itself it is stated that our treaty obligations are JUST AS BINDING as the Constitution itself.
Those people who think we can toss our international treaty obligations aside when they seem inconvenient are really tossing aside the Constitution.
But then we always sensed how much they disrespect our Constitution and the whole rule of law, didn’t we?
A tsunami of hostile blogs followed, which seems to have led The Times to defend itself at my expense, an instance of which is your own column.
_________________
She really is a thin-skinned, self righteous, deluded piece of work, isn’t she? She really has no remorse at all for what she’s done.
I love it that the blogs upset her. I say – let’s keep up the great work.
Oh, Judy, you fucking drama queen. We’re sick of you.
Exit. Stage right.
November 13, 2005
The Public Editor
Other Voices: Judith Miller Responds to the Public Editor
Re “The Miller Mess: Lingering Issues Among the Answers” (Oct. 23):
Over the years my work at The Times was acknowledged by a Pulitzer, many awards and successive promotions to coveted posts. The substance of my work was never questioned, nor was my professionalism. Then came W.M.D., when like many others in the press, I reported intelligence that proved faulty. I was not the only reporter to do so, but perhaps because I worked at The Times, I was the most prominent. Since then I have been attacked by bloggers, gossip columnists and by The Times itself, most recently by its internal critic.
You accuse me of taking journalistic “shortcuts,” but take your own by supplying no evidence. You prefer to believe Jill Abramson, who says that she does not recall my suggestion in July 2003 that we pursue the implications of my conversation about Joe Wilson. But I remember this vividly, for it occurred amid the departure of Howell Raines, a time of crisis for senior editors, when she may have been rather preoccupied. But you, without a shred of evidence one way or the other, choose to believe Jill and not me. What one believes on the basis of no evidence simply exposes one’s prejudice and is otherwise meaningless.
I cooperated fully with management in developing our legal strategy, as you would have learned had you asked our lawyers. Bill Keller also attended these meetings. If he failed to listen to these briefings about my source and plans, that is not my fault.
You still don’t understand the reference in my notes to Libby as a “former Hill staffer.” I agreed only to listen to him on that basis. Had I decided to use his information, I would have renegotiated the attribution as I had routinely done on countless occasions, or I would not have printed his remarks. Had you not taken a “shortcut” and had you checked my previous work with editors, you would not have found a single false attribution on my record.
The day after I testified before the grand jury, The Times, in two long articles, misconstrued my reasons for finally agreeing to testify by quoting with approval the self-serving statement by Libby’s lawyer that his client’s original, coerced waiver would have met my demands as fully as the written, personal, uncoerced waiver that Libby finally gave me. A tsunami of hostile blogs followed, which seems to have led The Times to defend itself at my expense, an instance of which is your own column.
My own account of my grand jury testimony prompted Bill Keller to call the draft “heroic.” “This is really fascinating,” he wrote. “You have managed the delicate task of cautious attribution and qualification without draining the narrative of life.” He called it “an important contribution.”
From there it’s been all downhill, culminating in your column.
JUDITH MILLER
New York, Nov. 8, 2005
Judith Miller retired from The New York Times last Wednesday. Bill Keller is the executive editor of The Times. Jill Abramson is a managing editor. Howell Raines is a former executive editor. I. Lewis Libby Jr. was the chief of staff for Vice President Dick Cheney. Joseph C. Wilson IV is the husband of the C.I.A. agent whose identity was leaked.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/huffpo…..ost/010546
HuffPo editorial on Yahoo… Iraq war has set back democracy across the entire Mideast.
a bit off topic but . . . you wonderful FDL inquiring minds might like a new diary over at KOS dealing with the sorrid gop talking point that –
“Congress had access to the same intelligence information that the White House had!”
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/11/12/221833/00
the autor unearthed a policy memo that restricted intel info to only 8 senators . . . and of course turd blossom!
For those who are having trouble understanding Ron Wyden’s vote in the matter of habeas corpus, it appears to be part of a pattern.
1.last year he voted to place punitive sanctions on Syria, virtually an act of war .
2.He voted to confirm John Roberts, who wrote an opinion in favor of arbitrary detention of american citizens in the Hamdi caser.
3.voted to romove habeas corpus rights from foreign detainees at gitmo.
Like Liebermann, he is a neo-con enabler and should be “outed” as such.
A Feb. 4, 2004 article from Counterpunch spells this out pretty well:
Sharon’s favorite senator: Ron Wyden
By Mark Gaffney
Tyrany of the majority — a pretty frightening thing when you think of many of the things the “majority” has been in favor of in recent memory.
Excellent post, Redd.
I agree completely and would go so far as to say that anyone supporting the administration on this is unamerican.
I am curious about what exceptions the Founders had in mind when they wrote this in the Constitution:
The privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it.
Are they only talking about the case of Civil War or when our country is invaded by foreign forces?
http://www.senate.gov/general/…..rs_cfm.cfm
EVERYBODY needs to stop and check in with their Senators on this.
In other words, if Bush felt that liberal bloggers were a threat to National Security, they could be deported and imprisoned and tortured, with no recourse?
Isn’t this unlawful tyranny?
I am thankful to Firedoglake for being in front of this important issue. Our jurisprudence has always recognized that only dictatorships need fear judicial review of detentions. The vote to deny habeas corpus to any prisoner is a shameful betrayal of what made this country great. Start down this path, and who knows where it will stop.
I have written all the Democrats who voted for this abomination, and wonder what else can be done. Anybody got any ideas?
Billmon — he didn’t that I saw. But then again, I’ve been wrestling with this piece for several hours and my eyes are bleary. The particular Scalia language in Hamdi shocked me — didn’t expect it from him, frankly.
I rarely agree with Justice Scalia in philosophical terms, but in this particular matter, we see eye to eye.
Nino voted against habeus corpus review in Rasul. Apparently, his concern for civil liberties in war time only goes so far.
I haven’t read the opinion, so I don’t know if he quoted Hamilton again.