Hilarious post, and great analyses by Pachacutec and rwcole.

I am in agreement with jixau: “The real fireworks will happen if the Democrats win a majority in either the senate or the house. Then we can see a real inquiry with public testimony that will get to the heart of how the cabal falsified intelligence and mislead the public to a war with no end..”

as far as i am concerned that is the key. we need real public inquiries into all these scandals of the last 4 years. not just a secret grand jury by a great prosecutor. the scope of the high crimes committed by this adminstration, everything from the illegal war in Iraq, the Katrina disaster, the overseas torture/gulag camps, the Halliburton and DeLay and Abramoff corruption scandals, the massive cutbacks in social programs while the Pentagon and its contractors and lobbyists got fat. and who knows what else. all of this needs to be made public. and in voluminous scope and depth! there’s enough corruption, conspiracy and criminal intent there to fill 10 front pages of the NYT every day. and keep every major committee and subcommittee in the US congress busy for the next 2-3 years.

the republican congress has totally obstructed justice up to this point, so the judicial-special counsel system has taken up some of the slack. but that’s a slow route and it’s not enough public scrutiny.

Sheeze… Stop it already. Wake up and smell the coffee. Have a sip even, as we nibble the toast.
Me | Homepage | 11.04.05 – 4:02 pm | #

Good for you Me. I agree with you 100%.

Why do people think the Repubs are invincible or that there is nothing the people of the United States can do except answer opinion polls?

The pendulum swings. The worm turns. The Republicans are in deep trouble and we can effect change.

Goshdangit! Because of that graphic I can no longer eat toasted cheese sandwhich, one of my fave dishes!

Ah well, need to watch the cholesterol anyway.

new thread, a HOT one

Just got here. Thanks for the graphics encouragement from y’all, and thanks, Jane for using this one. And, Jane, thanks for using the humor and the f* words liberally. Helps keep me, for one, sane in trying times. Trust others feel the same.

Depressed 3:29 Had a chuckle at the eBay comment– really, you got it! Virgin Mary toast on eBay was the inspiration.

Meanwhile, I was busy reading comments on an earlier thread and writing to support Pachacutec’s brilliant typo-coining of “credinility” (”Bush is already getting advice on how to restore his credinility…”) and to confess my indulgence in Schaudenfraude via on-line polls.

http://www.haloscan.com/commen…..72/#155455
-

Me — i’ve never doubted bush wasn’t a part of this. it’s his mo — he’s a vindictive little fuck who learned at the feet of the master — lee atwater. and he certainly has no issue sharing classified information — recall booby woodward getting a peak at some docs and prince bandar also getting access to S/NF docs. i’m just assuming there’s no way in hell anybody would be able to indict a sitting president for treason.

not only ask “are you going to fire Rove?” but “are you going to pardon Libby like your father pardoned Iran-Contra conspirators?”

I see the problem. Nobody has made the leap, but I see it clearly now.

Bush is guilty. He knows he is guilty. He was a kingpin in the conspiracy.

Now he is lying about, acting guilty. He is radiating guilt vibes.

He claims he is this strong, determined, forceful, powerful world leader… But he cannot find the inner strength to come clean and tell the truth. I doubt he ever will… But the guilt vibes are picked up by people, they can feel he is guilty even if many are not quite sure exactly what he is guilty of.

He is a haunted man.

lol, I sent my daily hate mail to the WH, the autoresponder there will copy your subject back to you… Except I use words the autoresponder takes exception to: domination, torture, oppression, murder, etc… They may automatically go into the recycle bin, but it helps me manage the anger.

rwcole — i really like your political analysis and wanted to respond to a comment in the previous thread:

Any political advisor who would have him continue that asinine campaign should have been fired months ago. Wonder if it was Rove?
rwcole

one thing i’ve read speculating how the bush agenda got so unhinged and that makes the most sense, is that karl rove knows how to run campaigns. he know nothing about governing. governing requires listening to all points of view and working out compromises. bush has done the opposite. he’s arrogant, petty, and afraid that compromise is weakness. really, he was destined to fail. the recent poll numbers show him losing major numbers of independents, no dems support him and now he’s beginning to alienate his base. it’s only been a couple of points, but that loss is starting.

one of the news reports tonite said rove remained behind to work on a new rollout plan to rescue the chimp — scheduled for sotu.

i think your karen hughes scenario is probably right on too. he doesn’t have alot of people close to him capable of doing the chief of staff job. ken mehlman, ed gillespie — oh please. karen’s more manly than those 2 combined. besides, i’m sure he’s calculating bringing in another woman in a high-profile spot.

I don’t see why Libby should squeal. All he has to do is sit tight until Christmas 2008. There will be no appreciable political fallout for Bush if he pardons Libby on his way out of office.

Umm…. your pants are on fire?

Next thing we’ll hear Lincoln’s ghost has been declared an enemy combatant and has been removed from the White House.

Did anyone see the press conference in Argentina. Bush was practically sweating. He said that it wasn’t surprising, all the rioting. It’s hard work hosting, perhaps someone like him. He he he. He’s such a joker.

Someone above said the press should ask Bush if he was going to fire Rove. Should they also ask Cheney when he’s going to fire Bush?

I wonder what God is saying to Bush now?

… but before you accept the editor position:

That’s the job for copy editors and proof readers :)

David Gregory had a good line:
“the legal limbo of Karl Rove”

2042 US deaths to date in Iraq. Seems to be getting worse.

There is a political calculation that every politician will have to make soon. How much longer will the american public tolerate this war?

Jimmy Carter doing great job again on Blitz’ show. Shut up that smarmy insufferable Barlett.

nancy is on now- sounds as if she’s losing it- told a nice story about Lincoln’s ghost haunting the Lincoln bedroom though.

zennurse–I heard Joe Wilson himself say that they were going to wait until Fitz’s investigation was over before they decided to go on with a civil suit. My impression was that they *wanted* to–probably they won’t have to if he gets Rove and/or Cheney anyway.

Content: A+

… but before you accept the editor position:

“WHOSE WARES NOBODY … ARE BUYING.”

should be

“WHOSE WARES NOBODY … IS BUYING.”

and it’t the Hindenburg, not the Hindenberg

nits, nits, I know …

LOL rw, I missed that one since he’s supposed to have Nancy Reagan on to discuss the Greatest President Ever according to the world of Hardball. Or Garp, haven’t decided.

Dan

I tend to agree with you that the Cheney WH strategy will be to delay the trial indefinitely. They will under no circumstance want the public to feed off the spectacle of all the WH officials under oath testifying. Imagine Tweety, Blitzer and Stewart speculating and adding fuel to the fire – I have to admit it would be the best theater.

So Scooter’s best bet will be to call for all kinds of classified documents knowing fully well that Cheney will prevent it from being released. Look at what they did with Cheney’s meetings with the energy company executives. So, this will wind up being litigated up and down to the SCOTUS with no end result.

The real fireworks will happen if the Democrats win a majority in either the senate or the house. Then we can see a real inquiry with public testimony that will get to the heart of how the cabal falsified intelligence and mislead the public to a war with no end that caused thousands of Americans and Iraqis to be killed and maimed all so that these guys could make a shitload of money.

Hope every reporter in the country keeps asking the question:

“Are you going to fire Rove”

yeah … with car bombs … as though DC security hasn’t planned for car/truck bombs (especially since Oklahoma ‘96) … those herrings stink to high heaven !

Hardball milking the Rove story- saying that Rove’s in big trouble- etc.

Good!

Shuster says what needs to be said.

Bush was asked whether he will fire Rove- he says that he won’t comment on an ongoing investigation. Shuster points out that the question didn’t have anything to do with an ongoing investigation- it had to do with the president’s intentions.

If reporters start pointing this out- it’s going to get very tough for Bush.

Bush can’t escape his problems. He is hated all over the world and his little trip to the South has really backfired. He must really feel cornered. Its actually pretty depressing that he is the sorry face of the US.

Another Red Herring?

MSNBC reporting that the brits have arrested three guys who were plotting to bomb the capital and the White House.

Right on schedule… CNN: We have a new Crisis! Now it’s the suddenly developing Border Wars with Mexico. Lots of night vision Minutemen clips.

Anything to not talk about the Bush riots in Argentina or treason or, well, do we have time to list them all?

What bird flu?

Great posts everyone!

SaltinWound – I thought the same thing at the time. My guess is that they wanted to make it look like Bush disapproved of the outing of Plame and had nothing to do with it.

Neither of which I believe.

But by doing that, they’ve set themselves up for a lot of pressure to fire Rove. After all, if it was such a bad thing, why aren’t heads rolling?

marysz — I got several laughs out of that one.

Jane:

I’ve seen this happen before (in the business world) when a big executive ends up leaving the clan for a variety of reasons.

The psychological toll is incredible. Scooter is running on inertia right now-but that will wind down as the weeks go on. He’s gonna be one loney boy by January.

an espionage charge would render the case politically radioactive… there’s already a lot of Geiger-counter clicking going on… mmm, yellowcake!

Thanks Jane- Just an attempt to figure this thing out from Fitzy’s point of view. I don’t know if he would be willing to bring the conspiracy charge with weak evidence- hoping to turn Scooter. Hope so- as that could be the key.

i’ll confess i get a certain satisfaction knowing that when this is all over, bush will probably never want to hear anyone utter the name ‘karl rove’ ever again.

Mary- great post.

The truth is that this White House has never shown an ability to come from behind- unless you count 9/11.

They don’t have the skill set to do it. Hughes was in charge of the management of the leaked DUI in 2000. She handled it miserably.

The shrubbery would need a new team and a new political identity to come from behind. I don’t see it happening.

Your time between toilet breaks gets shorter and shorter and you begin to drive yourself nuts with the possibilities.

rwcole — couldn’t agree more. Your whole analysis sounds spot on. Scooter is going to freak out big time, Fitz holds all the cards.

Remember when the story came out that Rove told Bush about his involvement a couple years ago, and Bush was furious? That spin was pulled back pretty quickly, but I’ve wondered who leaked it and why they thought it would help Bush at the time.

“But even more than Laura, I’ll bet the person with the most juice right now, whispering in his ear, is Karen Hughes.”

Rove squeezed Hughes out of the White House and into her thankless job of trying to get muslims to like Americans. With Rove out of the picture, she’ll come back. Rove took care of Bush’s image with the base and Hughes took care of Bush’s image with middle America. When Hughes left the WH is when the polls for Bush took a nosedive. The photo-op (ridiculous as it was) in Mississippi where Bush was dressed up like Bob the Builder is her style. She does a good job for him when he’s further up in the polls, but the Administration may be too far gone for her to resuscitate it.

Congress wants to get out of Washington by the first week of December. That means that there are only 30 days remaining in this congress.

Why is that important?

The pres knew at the beginning of the year that this was his last chance to get any of his “agenda” turned into law. He had hoped for a big tax bill and a social security bill as well as two confirmed justices.

Time has run out.

When congress returns in January- they will be thinking of nothing but their own re-election and won’t take any chances with dicey legislation.

This means that the shrubbery presidency is about over.

Cynics who poo-poo a winning battle in the thick of the fight should remove themselves to the rear.

It is unthinkable that the Dems in Congress are not meeting and developing strategy. You saw Reid move the other day… Are you not supportive?

I swear… People sound like whipped puppies whining about all the terrible power and control the goopers have, and how they are invincible, unstoppable, and then after the Dems are crushed in utter defeat they will pardon all their crimes and march off into future history bearing the fruits of the entire US treasury.

Sheeze… Stop it already. Wake up and smell the coffee. Have a sip even, as we nibble the toast.

Will the Wilsons have to wait for the Libby trial to end before they can file the civil suit? I understand the Pat F. has requested that they refrain until his investigation is over, but are they then required to wait even longer?

Jim VandeHei was interviewed this afternoon about his article and the NYT article. He said something to the effect that the NYT article contained some pretty shallow reporting.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE add this SAP function to all your future quote blocks. It’s not only educational, but fun!

In closing, PleasePlease PrettyPlease …

Since it’s a slow news day, let’s spend a few minutes thinking about this case from Fitz’s point of view.

Let’s suppose that what he really wants is Cheney and a piece of the shrubbery if he can get it.

Let’s also suppose that the only door to Cheney is through Libby.

What’s the strategy to squeeze Libby enough to get him to squeal like a stuck pig?

You aren’t going to break him down all at once- he identifies too much with the regime- he sees himself as Cheney’s COO- all of his psychology is built around this identity.

The task is psychological- not strictly legal- and it will take a long time- at least six months.

You start by isolating him- get him out of the environment where he feels powerful and protected.

The first indictment accomplished that. Now he’s at home. He has no idea what people are doing or saying back in the White House. He has lots of time to think about what everyone else involved in this case is doing. He’s got plenty of time to think about his political enemies- who are likely legion- and what they could do to undermine him. He gets lonely and afraid. He loses his identity.

Next, you let a few cats out of the bag. You have already made it clear in your indictment that you have 90% of what you need to go after a bigger conspiracy charge.

You then start interviewing some people who could only be of interest if you were trying to nail down the larger charge. You make it appear that there may be some flipping going on- of course you can’t and won’t comment on any of this- but let the press speculate- and let Libby sit at home sweating as he sees the possibility of being sold down the river by those he most trusted. This process goes on for a couple of months- and the press plays “speculation” every time they hear about one of the high level interviews.

Defense lawyers come out after the interviews and say that their client had nothing of importance to say- but you- Libby- are a lawyer- and you know that what defense attorneys say is usually bull shit. Your time between toilet breaks gets shorter and shorter and you begin to drive yourself nuts with the possibilities.

Finally you interview Cheney himself. The word gets out- same BS with the defense attorneys- but Libby is now not so certain that you actually NEED him to make the case- and he now begins to add up the potential years that he may be facing- the fact that his protector may not always be there to protect him- and that his protector might actually throw him under the train to save his own sorry ass.

Now he’s ready.

At this point- Fitzy comes out with the big indictment- naming Cheney (and maybe Clusterfuck as an unindicted co-conspirator). No one knows just how much evidence he has- but Scooter knows that the time for deal making is about to go away.He also knows that his odds of getting a pardon on the perjury and obstruction charges are pretty good- but that to pardon him on the larger charge would be to beg for an impeachment proceeding.

At this point- the bottom falls out- and Libby is ready to sing like a diva.

Vulcans, take note: Nobody messes with Scotty McClellan.

Anastasia – Yeah, indictments are worse, but either way I thinkthey wind up in the same unhappy place.

BobbyG

I think the strategy of stonewall will work for the WH. After a period of time the MSM will get bored about Traitorgate with no activity to keep the story moving other than the endless legal motions aka “protracted litigation” as Libby’s new attorney stated.

The public is powerless to affect the story with the exception of opinion polls.

The only bright spot relative to this story is that Iraq will not go away any time soon (but rather unfortunate for our troops and the Iraqis). And with the insurgency continuing to gain strength the critical story of why we went to war will remain front and center. And in that context Traitorgate will play a role.

On the point of if justice will be served I am cynical that anything will come of it unless the Democrats decide to get some cojones like Reid demonstrated and make Iraq a center piece of their 2006 election game plan and win a majority. If that comes to pass then the likelihood of some repurcussions to the Cheney-Rove cabal is possible.

http://sessions.senate.gov/email/contact.cfm

Sessions came out of the closed door meeting with Cheney where he supported BushCo torture policies.

EPU – Bad publicity is awful; indictments for conspiracy, perjury and obstruction of justice are worse.

If Cheney and/or Rove get indicted it would be a publicity melt down. They probably have a lot skeltons in those closets they want to hide. They are much more likely to come out at a trial.

As long as there are no indictments, for Rove and Cheneym, there is no way short of a Congressional hearing to get them to talk.

Anything can happen between now and election day 2006. While our greatest hopes may be realized, I’m not willing to bet on the Dems taking control of the Senate and or House.

ummm…too many years in the cage with the bear?

i have to say in general i’m having trouble reading any news story in the NYT without understanding that they are being shamelessly used by “sources”

but they ‘want’ to be used by their ’sources’

which makes them?

A repost of my latest opus . Now I really am going out. I swear

The View From The Bunker

Let’s war game this from the Bush perspective.

First of all, he has trouble getting trustworthy advice in this, from a strategic point of view, because his #1 advisor is implicated and not able to provide the most unbiased point of view. That adds to Bush’s difficulty, as he has trouble with stategery.

Ok, Bush does not want a trial and he does not want a plea, in that either will put his administration in real jeopardy.

He does not care about anyone else’s legal liability. He, like his mother, has no heart for the help.

Bush wants to be a hero, to best his father. Not looking good right now, but he needs to get through this.

The best thing that could happen for him would be for Libby to enter a guilty plea outright to all charges. That would require elocution (Libby would have to fess up in some detail to the charges, describing what he had done wrong).

But that, at least, might stall the prosecution and limit the possibility of everything else coming to light. Libby would have to fall on the sword completely. Bush then claims there was one bad apple (sound familiar?), and he’s gone. Let’s move on.

How do you induce Libby to do this? You must promise him a pardon, off the record, and hope that he will trust you. No such promise, of course, can be binding. You can even pull the football away after he enters a plea if you want, but he has to believe that you won’t.

Well, I tend to doubt Libby would want to put all his eggs in that basket. Libby knows Bush well, and and I just think he’s too smart to cut off all his strategic options that way. Whether or not his new legal team is disinclined to plea out, Libby certainly is showing that at least he is keeping his options open. He’s hired some fighters.

So, if you are Bush, and Libby seems to be off the reservation, or at least not a lock, what do you do?

I think if you are Bush, you just try to stonewall and gut it out. That’s his style. I don’t think he has a plan, or an endgame. He’s not a planner.

He is distancing himself from Cheney, and maybe even from Rove, based on his public comments today. But he does not want to make any changes that suggest anyone is forcing his hand. You have to know he hated pulling Miers’ nomination, and if he seems to get pushed into a White House shakeup, in his mind, he’s only showing more weakness.

Nevermind that he will probably have to do all these things anyway. Everything we know about Bush suggests that he believes hope constitutes a plan. He’s waiting for the hurricane to pass (so to speak), but has no idea how badly his home will be flooded in the aftermath. Will there be a house left? He’s trusting it to God to bail him out, somehow.

Meanwhile, Libby is examining his options, but won’t make any decisions until he gets discovery. Once he knows how tight the case is, he can better assess his chances at trial.

Furthermore, Rove and Cheney both realize that Bush is unreliable and covering his bets by placing some daylight between himself and them.

Laura may also figure in others’ calculations: by all accounts, she had a role in pushing Bush to nominate a woman for the O’Connor seat, first time out. Laura might very well encourage Bush to chuck them all overboard if he has to, and her influence waxes as that of the other advisors wanes. She has become the caretaker of her husband as he freaks out and possibly falls off the wagon, after all, and Bush is susceptible to the influence of a woman who puts her foot down. Look at all the mommies in his life.

But even more than Laura, I’ll bet the person with the most juice right now, whispering in his ear, is Karen Hughes. I wonder what she’s telling him: probably to stonewall, but chuck the others overboard if and when he has to. She can step in to become White House Chief of Staff, if it comes to that.. It would not surprise me. Does anyone know if Karen has returned to the States?

I think that what we know of Bush’s character, and based on the leaks and rumors, we can conclude that the portrait I am painting now is not far from the truth. And if I’m right, then GOP members of congress and anyone under the threat of Fitzgerald’s investigation will realize that the president is not necessarily their ally. They cannot count on pardons, even if pardons have been hinted at or promised, directly or through intermediaries.

So, looking through the looking glass the other way, it appears to me that the top of the GOP is in disarray, without leadership and without a plan to get through this crisis. Bush is hunched in a paranoid crouch as his numbers plummet below sea level.

He’s hoping the Alito nomination will invigorate his base and get him a “win” on the board if he passes. Then, he hopes, his poll numbers will rebound as his base comes home. That’s his recovery plan, but I think the chances of a smooth nomination, or even a successful nomination, are tenuous at best. And if Fitzgerald does not succeed in bringing more indictments, and the Libby trial is delayed until the end of his term, he might get through. Other presidents have had very bad periods and rebounded, so he thinks he might get by as well. Stay the course. That, at least, is the hope. That is his “plan.”

The result? These still seem to me like optimal conditions for Fitzgerald’s investigation. There are many fingers in the wind among the conspirators, but I think that soon all concerned will conclude the situation has devolved into “every man for himself.” That creates fertile ground for potential flippers. And that’s the textbook way for a prosecutor to break up an organized crime syndicate.

Mr. Fitzgerald’s spokesman, Randall Samborn THE MAN WITH THE WORLD’S SLIMMEST JOB DESCRIPTION, declined to discuss Mr. Rove’s legal status

lol

tbe whole article was hilarious

Can we spell M-E-L-B-A?

If the truth is not on their side, and the their lies aren’t working, where does that leave them?

Uhhh 60% disapproval rating and falling?

Also Jane – I want you to take the job so you can answer something for me. Why is the poker column in the sports section when the bridge column has languished in the arts section all these years next to the book review? Inquiring minds want to know.

How do the Repugs win anything with that strategy?

The issues, all of them, will continue to fester/haunt/dog the Repugs – all of them – until they are answered. Not answering does nothing to rehabilitate them or change the debate – in fact, it just gives credence to the conspiracy and cover-up.

Does anyone really care if Scooter goes to jail, if in exchange the Repugs are defanged, out of power, where they can’t do any more damage, kill more Americans, Iraqis and who knows who else (not that the war will end with the Repugs gone, but you have to start somewhere)? I don’t, although I would like to see them all convicted and doing time.

If the truth is not on their side, and the their lies aren’t working, where does that leave them?

We’ll have plenty of recourse as Fitz proceeds, Bobby G.

Thanks for using the NYT like the ventriloquist’s dummey that it is, Jane.

thank you for some humor in my day. i have to say in general i’m having trouble reading any news story in the NYT without understanding that they are being shamelessly used by “sources”. I still like the long features and the ancillary articles (health,arts) but the rest….

I think journalism needs a real rethink.

As for the NYT Editor position, I suggest you turn it down — if current trends prevail, more people will be reading FDL than NYT by about mid-January.

Jane,

If you truly want that NYT job, you must include some references to yellowcake aluminum tubing.

I wonder if Rove didn’t go to South America because he’s not allowed to leave the country?

Jane & VG — another brilliant graphic — how high did the bidding go on ebay?

dan -

Let’s assume, for the sake of argument/discussion, that you are right, that this will be the WH strategy.

What then?

Anybody?

We just shrug our shoulders and take this shit from them? What recourse does the public have?

—

Jane and Valley Girl,

Love that image.

My, God, Jane, that was just fabulous!!

You get my vote, absolutely.

Swopa at his blog Needlenose, derives from a LA Times story that Libby’s defense strategy is to stall and have the case thrown out by the judge using the canard that classified information and reporter’s first amendment rights are invoked. Apparently, secure that the WH will insure that it will take a long time to procedurally gain access to the classified information if at all. And hope the media will take their first amendement issues to the mat. Basically stonewall and gut the case by making it impossible to get to trial.

LOL, I loved it :)

That toast needs to go back in the toaster for another cycle tho, it’s not burnt enough.

Let Us Prey…

The cheese is doubly appropriate.

—

You should have thrown in some typos just for good measure, so it would really be NYT-ish.

what a beautiful apparition!
I am dialing the Vatican right now!!

Welcome to FDLA.

My name is percy.

It’s been seven seconds since I last pressed “refresh.”