According to Josh Marshall, a key sentence was cut out of the Gellman WaPo piece last night, but is sitll available on Nexis:
On July 12, the day Cheney and Libby flew together from Norfolk, the vice president instructed his aide to alert reporters of an attack launched that morning on Wilson’s credibility by Fleischer, according to a well-placed source. Libby talked to Miller and Cooper. That same day, another administration official who has not been identified publicly returned a call from Walter Pincus of The Post. He "veered off the precise matter we were discussing" and told him that Wilson’s trip was a "boondoggle" set up by Plame, Pincus has written in Nieman Reports.
I’ve been saying for a while that I’ve been hearing that there was a third man in all of this apart from Rove and Libby who as spreading shit about Joe Wilson, and speculating that it was Ari who was also Novak’s source.Wow. Why the hell did they put that up then pull that down? Those lawyers are fucking quick.That it would be Ari has always made perfect sense to me. As I wrote back on October 23:
WaPo, 10/23/2005:
A critical early success for Fitzgerald was winning the cooperation of Robert D. Novak, the Chicago Sun-Times columnist who named Plame in a July 2003 story and attributed key information to "two senior administration officials." Legal sources said Novak avoided a fight and quietly helped the special counsel’s inquiry, although neither the columnist nor his attorney have said so publicly.
Assuming the "two senior administration officials" thing is true, that narrows it down. Let’s look back at Time Magazine from July of this year:
Another character in the drama remains unnamed: the original source for columnist Robert Novak, who wrote the first piece naming Plame. Fitzgerald, says a lawyer who’s involved in the case, "knows who it is–”and it’s not someone at the White House."
So. Was a "senior administration official" but is no longer. Who might that be?New York Daily News, July 15, 2005:
Along with Bush political guru Karl Rove, the grand jury is investigating what role, if any, ex-White House mouthpiece Ari Fleischer may have played in the revelation that the former covert operative Plame was married to former Ambassador Joe Wilson. "Ari’s name keeps popping up," said one source familiar with special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald’s probe. Another source close to the probe added there is renewed interest in Fleischer, "based on Fitzgerald’s questions."
And why would Ari’s name keep popping up? Well, according to Bloomberg:
On the same day the memo was prepared, White House phone logs show Novak placed a call to White House Press Secretary Ari Fleischer, according to lawyers familiar with the case and a witness who has testified before the grand jury. Those people say it isn’t clear whether Fleischer returned the call, and Fleischer has refused to comment.
Doesn’t look good for Ari. Especially considering that according to Colin Powell anonymous sources:
On the flight to Africa, Fleischer was seen perusing the State Department memo on Wilson and his wife, according to a former administration official who was also on the trip.
Except — according to the New York Times, that may not have been what Ari told the grand jury:
Mr. Fleischer told the grand jury that he never saw the document, a person familiar with the testimony said, speaking on the condition of anonymity because of the prosecutor’s admonitions about not disclosing what is said to the grand jury.
Then there’s the fact that Fitzgerald subpoenaed Ari’s 7/12/2003 press conference transcript from Nigeria, and the White House scrubbed it from the website (but later restored it).
That Ari played a big role in the "smear Joe Wilson" campaign was never in doubt. From Wilson’s book:
Within a day, Fleischer was putting a different spin on the situation and downplaying the importance of my report. At one briefing after another, he had something to say about me, and by doing so gave the journalists another news cycle to talk about the sixteen words rather than about the president’s trip. Instead of containing the burgeoning press frenzy, Fleischer kept giving the story legs, so much so that it soon overwhelmed the president’s agenda in Africa.
From the Libby indictments, we know that Ari is now cooperating with Fitzgerald and will be a witness against Scooter if it ever comes to trial. No wonder he has been lying low. He has many, many tales to tell.
Update: Anonymous Liberal suggests that the reason the WaPo pulled the quote is because it inadvertently outs Fleischer as Pincus’ source.



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Delurking for the first time. First, I am amazed at the brilliance of Jane, ReddHedd and the posters here. You guys have been a lifeline of hope that the truth will finally be out there. Whether the sheeple will ever accept it, I suppose, is another matter, but much progress has been made because of the true investigative journalists here and in the other blogs…I find FDL as addictive as salty cashews.
Second, and maybe someone else has already addressed this, but it has been bugging me…they used the same methods with the press and the Brits:
1. The WH fed lies to Judy and then went on the tube and referred to the stories in the NYT as if they were factual. “According to the New York Times (lie, lie, lie)”
2. They arranged to get the forged Niger documents into the hands of British intelligence, and then told the American people and the UN that British intelligence had in their possession documents that said Saddam was trying to get enriched uranium from Niger.
So cynical–though of course most people bought it–as if having planted the info, they could quote the people they deceived and have some sort of deniability by saying….”We didn’t say it was true, we said, ‘according to the Times’, or ‘Here’s what British intelligence tells us’….hey, not our fault if they were wrong.”
Because of Fitz, for the first time in years I have hope that we may get our country and our democracy back.
By the way, Tweety is actually going after the admin on Hardball right now about using the press. I’d really like to see the MSM not only go after the admin, but also admit their own complicity….a lot of people only watch the nightly news and they are still clueless as to this intricate web of deception and ineptitude.
btw, if anyone else caught this I haven;t seen it in the press – fitzgerald pointed out that one of the charges of perjury was about a response Libby gave to a grand JUROR. Uh oh. Based on that, I am going to bet that there was nothing Fitzgerald put forward that the GJ did not return. Therefore it was his own judgement or the judge that he ould not prove malicious intent 100%. I think to prove intent it has to be a conspiracy that they all took part in directed by someone…just my guess.
You guys may all have said it – but I can;t read through all the haloscans from the last coupla days or I’ll get nothing done today…:-)
In finally listening to the press conference in one go, it is obvious to me that further indictments are on hold until intent/motivation is provable. Once he has intent, the three who leaked go down – unless one of them cracks and gives away who told them all to do it and why and makes a deal. There was no point to charging Rove while he has so much on Libby and can make him very uncomfortable for a while.
Now, as to why would Libby give it up when he knows he will be pardoned in a few yrs? Because he is an out doorguy of 55 and a few yrs will be very very hard to do – let alone 30.
Papa wants to know why we should take our blood pressure medicine? Is a slam on her or will we be mad at what they did to her?
My bet is that Martin is the source, and Gellman made it too clear by noting that she was the only other person on the flight.
I’ll join Jane’s skepticism about the “not a partisan gunslinger” but on different grounds. EVERYTHING in the article in which that statement appears is misinformation. It is part of Fitz’ case for obstruction against Novak, if he pursued one. So why would we believe one isolated assertion in it, when we understand the rest to be a lie?
Re: Ari. He almost certainly is cooperating. You wouldn’t have the detail that Libby told him about Plame’s identity unless he was cooperating. And–as you can note by Fitz’ mention of Ari in the press conferece, Ari is a VERY critical witness in the Libby obstruction charge. You don’t rely on someone who doesn’t have good reason to be reliable.
HEALTH ALERT: Take your blood pressure medication before viewing the Valerie Plame Wilson segment of “60 Minutes.” (Just aired here on East coast.)
Good catch LJ/Aquaria…
If he refers to Ari by name, then that would seem to leave ‘Official “A”‘ in the lurch.
I’ve still got my money on Official “A” as being Rove.
-Monk
One thing I find interesting is that Fitz refers to most people at the White House by their title, but he does make one slip and refer to Fleischer by name:
FITZGERALD: It’s also alleged in the indictment that Mr. Libby discussed it with the White House press secretary on July 7th, 2003, over lunch. What’s important about that is that Mr. Libby, the indictment alleges, was telling Mr. Fleischer something on Monday that he claims to have learned on Thursday.
In addition to discussing it with the press secretary on July 7th, there was also a discussion on or about July 8th in which counsel for the vice president was asked a question by Mr. Libby as to what paperwork the Central Intelligence Agency would have if an employee had a spouse go on a trip.
When I was listening on the radio, that caught my attention, right away. All those titles Fitzhugh threw out…then this relatively casual reference to Ari. It was weird.
Also from News24, Senior administration officials said that before Rice spoke with the press, she phoned Tenet in Washington but gave no details of the call.
I was surprised to hear Me say that Bush can’t stand the sight of Rove anymore. My better half though just pointed out that maybe all the talk about Rove being ,,” Bush’s brain,” and how Bush can’t get along without him, and the Aministration will collapse without Rove”, might be starting to rankle ole Goober Chickenshorts ego!
I had to take a break from this blog after the indictment hit. I think it’s unfortunate, though predictable, that I come back to the blog only to find the same old “what’s Me have to say about this” stuff.
I think some of you are addicted to Me’s fantasies like some people are addicted to porn. It’s kind of sad. I say this as someone who was drinking the Me Kool-Aid at one point.
I don’t know anymore than anyone else does. I do know that a lot of lefty blogs went way out on a limb, this blog included, with pie in the sky predictions that didn’t pan out.
I’m sorry it has to be this way and I’m sorry to be the bearer of bad news. But I think Libby’s probably all we’re going to get. People should be thinking about a fallback plan other than depending on Fitzgerald to do the Democratic Party’s work for them.
There are many folks here who express a wish that the Bush administration finally get brought to justice, and I share that wish. But I sincere hope that Fitzgerald does not have as one of his goals bringing down the administration. If that were his goal, then he cannot be truly objective, and he will lose focus, and he will not be able to do his job effectively. His history as a prosecutor suggests that he does not let politics and ideology get in the way of finding the facts. If bringing down the White House happens, that will be collateral damage, but that is not his goal.
I believe him when he says that his purpose is to stay with this until he finds the answers he is looking for — who leaked classified information, how, and why. That should be his entire focus.
In fact, he is quoted as saying he is not ready to close this case until he can look at someone in the eye and say that the job is done.
new thread.
recall last week Condi cut short her trip to Canada upon the receipt of a telephone call. I recall no major international crisis requiring the presence of the U.S. Secretary of State in Washington, DC. Perhaps there was a brewing political brouhaha?
Here are the links for reference:
July 11
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news…..711-7.html
July 12
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news…..12-11.html
At my 3:16 post I point to the odd way that the July 11 press briefing on AF1 begins. This is where Condi addresses the Tenet statement, and there seems to be some confusion about whether it’s on background or on the record.
Now look at the July 12 press briefing. This is Ari’s statement from Nigeria, and, as Jane notes, it was subpoenaed and then removed from the WH website before being restored.
MR. FLEISCHER: Dr. Rice was always scheduled to brief yesterday, just as Secretary Powell was scheduled to brief at the filing center the night before. So we actually, literally the day before the trip or the week before the trip — sit down. She was scheduled to brief on the flight to Nigeria. It was moved up to the morning flight. It was easier to do it that way, frankly, and to disseminate whatever she said.
Huh? Whatever she said? You were there Ari. Wouldn’t you know?
Maybe, for example, she said something on background — and then something on the record?
“Does anyone know for absolute certain that there were no sealed indictments handed down? Is it at all possible?”
Fitz can’t sit on sealed indictments very long… And I question whether her can carry them over from one GJ to another.
Fitz is sitting on evidence he has not allowed a GJ to vote on.
Someone said Wilson is on “60 Minutes?” Then here on East coast he’s coming up.
mgm >”…He thinks Fitz has more fires to set.”
I suspect that Mr. Fitzgerald is in a position to make what goes on at Burning Man look like a single match being struck
I hope he has a very, very good security detail
“Stop quoting the laws to us. We carry swords.” – Pompey
Over two years ago, Josh Marshall predicted that the Plame leaking would eventually be a huge scandal for the White House, and here we are. Among all bloggers he has been one of the earliest and most dogged in covering this story, so it is no surprise he came up with this redacted sentence from Nexis. The man’s prescience and political astuteness is remarkable. I am sure neither the Time nor WaPo could hire him because he is too independent minded.
Speaking of the Times, they have an excellent and useful graphic timeline of the Plame leak. I can’t post a link because there is none. You have to access off the front page. Useful for making your talking points.
Fitz visiting Sharp:
Does anyone know for absolute certain that there were no sealed indictments handed down? Is it at all possible?
meme– I don’t think Cheney resigning on health issues will work anymore. The President has to demand his resignation to save face.
Wilson, I like your theory. And I’m going to go out on a limb here, after reading Swopa’s post, and say Ari and Condi are the two ’senior officials’ on AF1 calling six journalists. The idea originates in the VP office with Libby & Cheney. He and Libby have been planting the seeds all month. When the Wilson article comes out, Cheney tells Pres, hey I know how to get this guy. Pres asks Rove about it. Rove says go with it, and Pres tells Ari to proceed. Condi helps him out, which irritates the hell out of Powell. Possibly Ari, Rove, and Pres don’t know she’s an operative. The VP’s office is the only one that has that information. So Libby spreads that information in Washington, and Rove confirms that she’s CIA while making sure no fingers point to Bush here. If this wildly irresponsible speculative theory is true, it means that the VP fucked Bush. Anybody surprised?
me: for what it’s worth, my husband the attorney agrees with you. He thinks Fitz has more fires to set.
sorry for the double post
mgm – The problem is Fitzgerald. He turns entire forrests of bad guys into kindling wood, and burns them to keep warm in winter.
Regarding the trip to Africa, an article in News24 in Africa, not only mentions that Bush won’t be drinking because he is a teetottler, but also this sentence:
The White House communication agency will ensure that the president has secure communication channels available, even high up in the clouds on Air Force One.
On the Africa trip, Bush, accompanied by his Secretary of State Colin Powell and Assistant Secretary of State for Africa
Walter Kansteiner, will be received by foreign affairs chief of protocol Billy Modise. There were 600 people in their entourage.
Was Laura questioned?
Me — just tell me that Rove is gonna get indicted. just say “yes” and I’ll believe you
Does anyone think Cheney will resign due to “health issues”?
M >”Anyone remember K-Street…as the investigation was heating up?”
Hmmmmm
Might be interesting to go back and watch some of it to see if anything “pops out”
“Television made dictatorship impossible, but it made democracy intolerable.” – Shimon Peres via joi ito
Siun, you’re right. The glee club is so flat it hurts my ears.
back to Cheney telling Libby that Ari was going to be spilling the beans. Rove was off in Australia as I recall, Cheney was in the USA and Ari was off in Africa on a Presidential plane trip with Condi and Preznit. Where was the DECISION made to go with Ari & Libby blabbing? WHO told Cheney what to tell Libby? Would Ari have gone off sliming Valerie Wilson on his own? If so, why did somebody find it important to tell Cheney about it?
My guess is the Preznit gleefully told Cheney about the rat-fucking Ari was going to be doing. Rove in Australia might have been truly peripheral to this affair.
Forgive me while I make the case that the participants of this superb blog are loosely (repeat: loosely) divided into two camps that define the participants of my own marriage. To wit: my husband is an attorney (litigation); I’m a novelist. Translation: we often “see” things very differently. I argue that he can’t see the forest because he’s blinded by the fog of minutiae and details that comprise his trees; he says my forest is visible only through a gauzey fabric comprised of leaps of intuition and/or educated guesses. (We’ve stayed together –happily–for 45 years mainly because we combine both views to successfully solve problems. )
And here, I think we’re missing a long view of the dark, dense, and immense forest that Fitzgerald is battling his way through. Which is my way of preparing myself for the grim possibility that the indictment of Libby is all he can get, given the immensity of the forces gathered against him. Forces that I fear fall under the label of *National Security*. I doubt we can even begin to guess what they all are, but one may be a connection between the Niger forgeries and the Franklin espionage indictment (okay, it’s an educated guess). Which is why I asked earlier about Douglas Feith. (Try googling him.)
And while I may well be wrong re: only Libby indicted, he could ultimately prove to be the weak link in a chain that is the neocons’ grip on this country.
“Me — just tell me that Rove is gonna get indicted. just say “yes” and I’ll believe you”
I cannot guarantee a Rove indictment. Because Rove knows where the bodies are all buried… But if he is not indicted, it’s because he spills enough beans and rice to bring the others down.
And if there is another angle to bring the other’s down… Say Libby cracks… Rove will go on a conspiracy charge.
Rove is really caught up in this… And he can’t trust anyone except his lawyer, and everybody, including Bush simply can’t stand the sight of him anymore.
This administration is so fucked up it is positively pathological.
justwondering – I think you are right that the dems should focus on corporate legal issues with SCOTUS – esp right now when we have oil co profits being announced – timing is ideal. Unfortunately, the dems tend to be rather tonedeaf and they are beholding to the same corporate powers.
On the flight to Africa, Fleischer was seen perusing the State Department memo on Wilson and his wife, according to a former administration official who was also on the trip
In this memo, the information that Plame was a CIA operative was labelled classified, thereby making Ari guilty of the Espionage Act violation.
ps- i think Josh Marshall had a guest blog on the WaPo a day or two ago – someone should be able to confirm … maybe he did get insider information (Frist anyone?!).
Gee, swopa, didn’t know you were lurking, why don’t you speak up?
Because it took me a few minutes to write a post that explains everything.
If the deleted line in the Post is accurate, this is explosive.
That’s an excellent link dt, top to bottom, just excellent fun :)))
It’s headline news in the U.K. alright. Top item on the BBC1 10 O’Clock News on Friday (which is the top national spot) – most of the media have been slow to pick it up and have been low on detail or implications (no different from the U.S. in that respect, although i am surprised because the U.K. media were all over the government like a rash on WMD and pre-war intelligence initially – i guess it’s a matter of fatigure and maximum inflictable damage – Blair’s low point about Iraq was a while ago – public opinion her is well set … I am a far left progressive so even voting seems pointless these days – at least the Dems and Independents have something to rail against in the U.S.).
on Plamegate, Watergate et al. It’s far too early to pass any kind of judgements about which is worse, in historical context – i’ve spent a bit of time in the Nixon Presidential Archives and despite the easy stereotype of RMN “I am not a crook”, and all the dirty tricks, i always thought he was a relatively effective president in administrative terms and his crime was getting caught involved in the dirty tricks that a lot of politicians of that era had engaged. he would have walked if the taping system hadn’t been rolling, which returning to Plamegate – is a question for proving conspiracy charges … they require serious levels of cooperation from Bush Administration officials. still my sense is that Bush will bomb in the history books – Len Garment only had to *pretend* to the Russians that Nixon was unstable and had his finger on the button. But, as RMN himself said “I don’t believe in history, there are only historians and 90% of them are on the left”.
ok. i am rambling. more postcards from London anon.
Me — just tell me that Rove is gonna get indicted. just say “yes” and I’ll believe you
I think there’s a huge stockpile of ammunition at this point either to bring down or seriously cripple this admistration. But what really scares me, and is coming up next week, is the stacking of the Supreme Court in a manner that will have a long lasting negative effect. It’s a given that anyone Bush selects is going to believe that the state should be able to regulate a woman’s right to choose. Whether that will translate into trying to overturn Roe v. Wade will be be unknowable and won’t bring down a candidate. Instead of concentrating on that issue, I wish the Dems would focus on the danger that the court is being stacked with judges who think that upholding executive and corporate power outweighs individual rights by a huge margin. If the court is stacked that way, we are even further down the road on the relentless march toward facism. I think what would strike a nerve with the public right now is the fact that the so-called non-activists favor striking down legislation by our elected representatives and using the Constitution to protect the rich and powerful at the expense of the powerless. Public opinion currently shows that we’re not happy with our corporate overlords. The Democrats have to stand up on this issue NOW or be complicit in the goosestep toward the facist state. Do we really want to be ruled by a dictator and a bunch of corporate bosses who are greedy without end? That’s the more all encompassing issue that we’re facing with SCOTUS. Is this government by and for the people as a whole, or is it by and for a select few? We’re about to turn a corner on that question.
Fitz visiting Sharp – given Fitz’ clear sense of propriety, my guess is that he would only visit W’s lawyer to talk about W in some fashion – more testimony, unindicted co, something that sends a message to W – but I cannot see him delivering news about someone else since that would seem to be unseemly given GJ secrecy, and all. I thinkit was a little pressure move – you may see me only indict Libby but I’m not done with your client yet.
Newbie post, been reading a while and really appreciate the work you’re doing here…kudos.
Tasty bit of story telling over at Bootrib re: Cheney v Libby, http://www.boomantribune.com/s…..023/444#6, The Valachi Papers, PtII check down the comment thread for a follow-up.
Good point, me, re: Bush being the executive law officer in the WH, that should be a Dem talking point. If the president isn’t rooting out the “evildoers” in his own administration, how can we trust him to fight them around the Middle East? ‘Course WE know he’s as dirty as they are, but it’s a good point for Middle America to hear.
Hell, they are right under his nose!
I’m wondering about Matalin’s role in all of this. She had been part o the WHIG but was no longer working for Vice directly after Dec 2002. She was on Timmy’s show with her hubby June 29, 2003 and did keep up the party-line aobut WMD: http://www.prospect.org/webfea…..06-30.html
Anyone remember K-Street on HBO, which was shot that fall as the investigation was heating up?
With regard to Condi, the July 11 press briefing is pretty interesting…
It’s on the plane back from Africa with Ari and Condi. Starts off this way:
MR. FLEISCHER: Dr. Rice has reflections on the overall trip and then we’re happy to take your questions.
Q Are we on the record, now?
MR. FLEISCHER: On the record.
Q Can we do it on camera, then?
MR. FLEISCHER: It’s gaggle.
DR. RICE: We’re on the record or background?
MR. FLEISCHER: On the record. This will be a gaggle.
DR. RICE: Okay, fine.
“In other words, not knowing that Novak was a pansy and spilt all the beans to the GJ on day one, his sources would think they could hold back on their testimony and even drop a few fibs in there. Then Fitz watching it all unfold could later nail them on it and have them flip and help nail the big guys (P & VP)?”
Yeah… That is a play Fitz would surely use. I bet it worked too. These perps are just plain stupid.
I have a hard time with the notion that Fitz would make a deal with any of these guys realted to their political desires, like who gets to stay in what job. That’s not up to him, it’s up to Congress and Bush, who we employ and can pressure. Fitz’ job is to “follow the money” (whose is that, Me or Pach?) and right the wrongs. I think he uses the politics only to a point, but is really just focused on getting the bad guys, like Superman, Elliot Ness, and Underdog.
I cannot imagine that as far as Fitz is concerned, this does eventually come to roost on Bush’s bed post.
Bush took an oath of office, he is supposed to be the man in charge. He is the executive law officer in the WH… Yet they have to bring Fitz in, a prosecutor from Chicago, to vet out the truth?
Fitz must be just shaking his head at these incredulous stories and lies. I would have to think the man won’t feel clean until all perps are fully cooked and sterile from immersion in boiling oil.
Do you ever think that Fitz may have asked Novak to be secretive as to whether or not he testified before the GJ as a trap for the underlings?
In other words, not knowing that Novak was a pansy and spilt all the beans to the GJ on day one, his sources would think they could hold back on their testimony and even drop a few fibs in there. Then Fitz watching it all unfold could later nail them on it and have them flip and help nail the big guys (P & VP)?
Jane said:
But please, please offer up a list of possibilities of people who had access to this information, would have been part of this plot and would have fed the info to Robert Novak and would qualify as “no partisan gunslinger.”
How about the Condiliar? Did she regularly feed stories to Novakula? And is it true that she cut short her travel schedule last week?
Thinkprogress postulated this in July, and also mentions Bartlett as being on the plane. Sorry can’t link, but it’s @:
thinkprogress.org/2005/07/13/ari-leaker/
Surely Fitz won’t give that much.
Fitz visiting Sharp: I like the theory that Fitz stopped in to let Sharp know he was thinking of getting some more testimony from Bush…. sure makes a lot more sense than he stopped so Sharp could deliver a message to Rove…
theory: Fitz lets Sharp know that he, Fitz, is taking down the crew, but that the empty suit can continue to play preznit. However, if any pardons are issued, the empty suit will be a target as well.
I want to add… Bush is trying to use the Martha Stewart defense…
I really have to laugh. It’s pathetic, truly pathetic.
Martha on the morning show with the big knife… The host asks her about insider stock trading… Martha becomes angry and defiant “I WANT TO MAKE MY SALID!!!” – then proceeds to manically destroy a head of lettuce with the big sharp knife… And she still did prison time on _one_ count of perjury.
Here is Bush… Doing the exact same thing… “I WANT TO TALK ABOUT BIRD FLU!!” or “I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE SUPREME COURT!!!”
And it’s not going to fly.
He lied to the American people, and he can’t make the lie go away… As long as he refuses to hide behind convenient issues, it will never go away… The questions will be asked over and over and over… Relentlessly. From all directions.
lol… about the next SCOTUS nomination… Did not the preznit tell the American people there was _nobody_ better suited and more capable of taking the available seat on the bench than Harriet Miers? I do recall Bush saying he looked _everywhere_, high and low, and she was far out front at the best possible nominee.
So no matter who he nominates now… We are surely not going to get anything better than second best.
The man is in deep trouble, and it’s not going to get better.
I hear Jane’s fingers clicking and her mouse zooming around….
Wilson, thanks. That’s what I thought.
Aw, Gee, swopa, didn’t know you were lurking, why don’t you speak up?
If it was Miller, it would certainly explain why the Post pulled it.
You know how unreliable Miller is…
tectonic plates would shift if Josh Marshall misled us…I have always found him to be a straight-shooter with a good heart.
swopa wonders if it’s Miller.
Yeah, but you know how unreliable Swopa is …
Nexis now has the redacted version. I wish I’d checked when I first had about this so I could say I saw it with my own eyes.
Josh Marshall is 100% credible yes? No way he could be wrong on this one?
This is getting so exciting.
http://news.yahoo.com/fc/us/bush_administration
Dems screaming for Rove’s head on a platter.
“If Cheney sees his departure as unavoidable, and Libby knows that, he might cut a deal more quickly so as to preserve whatever value his testimony has. If Cheney resigns, Libby will be left holding testimony that has all the value of Confederate dollars: good to collect, but you can’t buy gas with them. This thing might go very quickly.”
You have to think the pressure on Cheney is pretty incredible. This story is breaking overseas, England for example… It looks really bad to be lying and bringing your #1 ally into a protracted war. Countries like France and Germany will be pointing fingers at the WH… What this adminstration did has deep international repercussions… Credibility repercussions.
The pressure has to be intense.
Bush looks more like a monkey, and less like the more highly evolved chimp with every breaking headline. I don’t think they can save this ship. I really don’t.
The White House spin, just ain’t gonna cut it against the hurricane.
heh. Catching up from my Treo at a rest stop along I-95 S in MD.
I figured it was Ari. And yes, the smell you smell is conspiracy.
Back to the road!
swopa wonders if it’s Miller.
(sorry I’m unable to link)
A procedural question here – how would Josh Marshall have figured out the discrepancy between the on-line article and the one in the Nexis database?
Did he read the original article, then re-read it and notice the difference or did someone tip him off? Just wondering.
Lott pressuring a “clean out”. (?Cheney resigns)
Harry reid “Rove should resign”
Schumer “take Cheney to the woodshed”
Pressure, pressure, pressure, Bush may have to make the next move.
and I ain’t talkin’ SCOTUS.
I like it, but I like Ari for it,too.
They certainly had access.
Jane — I suppose the important question is whether that’s the lens Novak sees the world through (assuming he is being honest). I think it’s quite likely that he views figures like Rove, Fleischer, and Dan Bartlett, who are communications professionals preoccupied with political spin and PR –as “political gunslingers,” while viewing officials like Hadley, Wurmser and Hannah as national security professionals not involved in partisan fights against Democrats.
If Cheney sees his departure as unavoidable, and Libby knows that, he might cut a deal more quickly so as to preserve whatever value his testimony has. If Cheney resigns, Libby will be left holding testimony that has all the value of Confederate dollars: good to collect, but you can’t buy gas with them. This thing might go very quickly.
Bad Vice President. Very bad…
Quick, push his nose in it!
;-)
Wow. Hadley, Wurmser and Hannah are non-partisan. But Ari Fleischer is.
That, I have to admit, is just not a lens I have ever used to view the world through.
Rule No. 1, when looking for an answer, look at the most obvious. Let’s see: there is Libby, and Rove and a third man. Obvious answer is Cheney. In fact “Official A” is the VP. There is nothing higher than Alpha. If you look at the indicment, the VP is all over the place, but not Rove. Rove in fact was not the most obssessed about the leak. Libby and Cheney were. Why that’s scaping everyone? I dunno.
What we are waiting for is a trial. What with motions and such, that could take awhile. If it drags into the second week of November 2006 then it’s tough to figure the odds on which party gets which half of Congress. (It’s also tough to tell what the Demos would do about this even if they did get a piece of Congress — just as likely they would do not much.)
If the Black House gamble is that the Repos will keep Congress, then pardons after the next election won’t matter. They will matter to certain elements of the Repo party, but what, in the eyes of Uncle Dick, is the party when his ass is on the line?
So I would caution that we may never know what little Ari knows, ’cause it’s a secret.
Very, very nice poputonian !
“The wind blows over the surface of the lake
In this way, the effects of the invisible
are made visible.” – I Ching
Helll, why don’t reporters just call Sharp and ask for comment on Fitzgerald’s visit. When he says nothing, then they can go back to Scottie. Just mentioning Sharp in the gaggle will drive him nuts.
Dan, that would certainly explain Bush’s anger at his post-indictment statement.
I’ve been wondering about that: Why is he so angry when he KNOWS that Libby’s indictment is coming? I mean, he’s knew it for at least a week prior. He must have seen something in the indictment that upset him further, or else he got a morning call from Fitz that was not exactly pleasant news.
Can we go contrariwise for a moment?
thewheezer at 1:32 asked a question about Fleischer that I’ve asked here before. Consider this:
- Kristoff spilled the beans on May 6th.
- Fleischer resigned on May 20th.
- Libby hit the batter in the head with a high-inside fastball in July.
Does Fleischer’s resignation signify the inception of the “plot to get Wilson”?
Could Fleischer actually have some integrity, and the wherewithal to understand that a crime was afoot?
If he was cognizant that a crime was coming down, he would have three choices: 1. blow the whistle 2. become a co-conspirator 3. resign.
Thank you. I’ll take my answers off the air.
Or Ari could be the”senior official” that later told WaPo in Sept. 2003 that White House offiicials were going around calling “at least six journalists.”
Granted, Ari left the White House in hurry four months before the WaPo article, and I dunno know he qualifies as a “senior official” but…if Libby can be referred to as “a former Hill staffer,” I guess Ari can be referred to as “a senior administration official.”
Ari as the secret source for both Novak and Fitzgerald.
Finally, of topic, but I did a little research, and if Lutwig is appointed to Supreme Court, he will have possibly have to recuse himself in all cases; his dad was shot and killed by a teen and executed in 2002 before Court banned executing minors; the killer was only 17-years old at the time. himself
Jane — Two other possibilities, other than Hadley, are Wurmser and Hannah — the two Cheney aides who are rumoured to be cooperating.
While Wurmser and Hadley are both extreme neocons, they probably wouldn;t be seen by Novak as “partisan gunslingers,” since they are not involved in partisan political battles against John Kerry and the Democrats.
Isikoff’s explanation for the Fitz’s visit to Bush’s criminal lawyer doesn’t make sense. Given all that was happening on Friday, notifying Bush’s criminal lawyer that Rove would not be indicted seems like a bit of detail that Fitz would delegate to a subordinate. Hell, he could have phoned it in. No, I think he went to see Bush’s criminal lawyer because there was something Fitz needed from him that he could only get in person.
I think he went to arrange or negotiate for Bush to be deposed under oath or in front of the new grand jury. That is the kind of thing that would not be left to a phone call or a subordinate.
I think he did it to further isolate Cheney. Fitz goes to see Bush’s criminal lawyer and there are two reasons: for testimony or to tell him that he is being named an unindicted co-conspirator. I doubt that it is the latter, therefore the former. Cheney knows of this meeting and knows that Bush is not going to cover for him. Fitz has boxed Cheney in.
Right now, Cheney is working with his lawyers, trying to figure out how to get out of this without doing jail time.
Fitz is trying to figure out if the obstruction charges reach up to Bush or if they stop at Rove.
-
“Partisan gunslinger” would, I think, apply to anyone that was a regular political insider ala consultants and appointees of previous administrations & therefore would NOT apply to Ari
John Bolton, Ted Olsen, Darth Dick, Scooter, Rove etc would be “partisan gunslingers” IMO
Of course, as always, I could be very wrong
Note that I can explain why, from his perspective, Bill Clinton DID NOT lie when he said “… I didn`t have sex with that woman…” or “…I didn`t inhale…” was telling the truth
Ya gotta be able to see the world from the speakers isovist and not anyone elses
consider :
“There was a man who was so disturbed by the sight of his own shadow and was so displeased with his own footsteps that he determined to get rid of both. The method he hit upon was to run away from them.
So he got up and ran. But every time he put his foot down there was another step, while his shadow kept up with him without the slightest difficulty.
He attributed his failure to the fact that he was not running fast enough. So he ran faster and faster, without stopping, until he finally dropped dead.
He failed to realize that if he merely stepped into the shade his shadow would vanish, and if he sat down and stayed still, there would be no footsteps.”
[xxxi]
from :
The Way of Chuang Tzu
by Thomas Merton
Ok, I got my foil hat on straighter.
Robert D. Novak, the syndicated columnist who disclosed Plame’s CIA job on July 14, 2003, said in a brief interview that he had hoped to write about his role yesterday but could not because Fitzgerald “left something on the table. I hope they take that off the table and I’ll do it.” I had read this yesterday at the Huff Po and maybe we can put this together with Janes statements about Ari Fleisscher. Maybe, the thing that is on the table is a possible charge against Ari for Perjury that Fitz is using to get info from him?
He was referring to the indictment’s failure to identify “Official A,” one of Novak’s two sources on the Plame story who told Libby of his conversation with Novak on July 10 or 11. In the meantime, Novak said, he cannot comment, on the advice of his attorneys. The indictment does not mention whether Novak testified before the grand jury.
Jane — One possibility is that Novak’s original source was Stephen Hadley. If you remember, Rove’s belatedly found email was to Hadley, so he was clearly involved in the WH pushback on WIlson. There are many other references to Hadley throughout this investigation, and Hadley has told people he believes he’ll be indicted. And Hadley would be the type of person who Novak would say is not a partisan gunslinger.
On the other hand, Hadley is currently in the White House, so that would be a strike against him if the reporting that Mr. X is not in the White House is true.
according to GoogleNews, there are 5082 fallout stories out there about EspionageGate etc.
Woo hoo — the pony! The pony I wanted!
Hard to hear in the wingnut tabernacle choir singing, “Lo, ye multitudes, there is nothing to see here” but …
It’s not only logical but likely that just because PFitz didn’t hand out conspiracy indictments doesn’t mean he hasn’t mapped out a pretty solid case with little pin flags showing which elements have indisputable proof.
He’s a suspenders and belt kind of guy. He’s not a Ken Starr dump any old shit out there and go fishing kind of guy. PFitz also isn’t the kind to leak chum on the waters to cause a media feeding frenzy and make the waters roil — and hope the confusion will reap additional shit for a case.
No wonder the RW attacks on PFitz have been so tentative and they’re trying an utterly lame strategy of attacking Wilson — which PFitz explicitly said was irrelevant to the case anyway
.
Well Spikey isn’t to be trusted from here to the door, TrueBlue.
And speaking of “fleshy parts,” what about Gucky? He doubtles fancies himself Alida Valli in this version of “The Third Man.”
Okay, we’ve got two names on pontificator’s list now as a “non-partisan gunslinger” who could’ve been Novak’s source:
1. Colin Powell
2. Christie Todd-Whitman
I think we are breaking the story of the year here. ;)
Jane, the only other possible name I can think to nominate as the non-partisan is Christie Todd-Whitman.
I don’t think there are any other straws to grasp at after that.
-Monk
roderino: “Feith left under a cloud…” Could you, or anyone, refresh my failing memory here (must be from all this deep breathing)? What was the cloud?
Isikoff’s explanation of the meeting between Fitz and Sharp doesn’t make sense to me. Sharp isn’t Rove’s lawyer. It was a pretty busy day for Fitz to make a detour for a courtesy call on someone elses lawyer.
Monk–Bravo, as usual…I bet you carve a mean pumpkin, too.
ok. I’m really excited about this one. But I have two questions:
1. Who is the WaPo’s “well-placed source”? Cheney, Martin, and Libby are the only ones on the plane. Is it Martin? Why? Or does it come from someone who has the information secondhand? Rove, Fleischer, Novak, Pincus, VP staff? Why?
2. Why post it and then pull it? Jane, you say lawyers. I like that, but I’m not quite convinced. Is it a weak source and that’s why the lawyers are pulling it? If they have confidence in their source, why not go big with it? This could be the scoop of the week. (Outside theory: Did Fitz request they pull it? Would WaPo agree?)
any meeting of a Special Prosecutor with the Preznit’s personal, criminal attorney is most special.
Van, here’s what Michael Isikoff had to say about that meeting in Newsweek:
“Fitzgerald made another visit early Friday morning—shortly before the grand jury voted to indict Dick Cheney’s top aide, I. Lewis (Scooter) Libby—to the office of James Sharp, President George W. Bush’s own lawyer in the case, to tell him the president’s closest aide would not be charged.”
Forgive me for taking this detour.
But has the story of Fitzgerald’s meeting with Bush’s attorney on Friday been discredited?
If Fitz DID meet with him, is this, well, normal?
mweee heeee Melior — I’d say quite a few. ;-)
Okay, there’s #1 on Pontificator’s list, Colin Powell as the source for Robert Novak. Do I hear a #2?
How many ‘R’s in ‘conspiracy’?
Joe Wilson will be on ‘60 Minutes’ tonight.
Drip … drip … drip …
One thing about Ari, as opposed to a lot of the rest of the WH crew, he does have friends in DC that go across the aisle. In Novak’s twisted-ass view of the world, perhaps that makes him “no partisan gunslinger” — because he can actually have dinner with a Democrat and enjoy it now and then.
Honestly, though, press secretaries tend to be middle of the roaders in any administration and not so trusted as partisan hacks by those who are…well…partisan hacks. They have to, by definition, get along with all sides in some way in order to effectively do their jobs. Think of everyone who did the job well for the Clinton years, and how they were able to straddle the line with the press, and how Fleischer did his job (as opposed to how McClellan appears to have alienated everyone). In Novak’s mind, perhaps that could indeed make Ari “no partisan gunslinger.” (Assuming Novak wasn’t lying through his teeth at any attribution, which I think is a big assumption given the source.)
I can’t, Jane, because I think it IS Ari Fleischer.
To make what might appear to be a lie true, I’ve wondered if that ‘no partisan gunslinger’ bit referred to Ari after he left the WH. A little sleight of hand there, because I don’t think whatever he is currently doing is “partisan”.
BTW, all, I think I heard this morning on NBC that Joe Wilson is going to be on Dateline tonight and Today tomorrow. FYI
I love this blog.
“Fitz know Dick.” as opposed to “Fitz don’t know Dick?”
Even in the gloominess, you all make me smile. Actually though, I think Fitz’s somewhat “minimalism” will lets the creeps hang themselves, and given enough time, they’ll do a bang-up job, I’m sure.
Well, in Novak’s mind Colin Powell counts as “no partisan gunslinger.”
But why would Powell — who was angry about being fed the yellowcake lie have participated in the smear?
Ari it is.
Jane, I think you are absolutely right. I have been a skeptic on many things, but there is now no doubt in my mind that:
1. Fitz has Ari’s cooperation.
2. Ari is the link between the Cheney team and the Bush team.
Even if he’s not Novak’s source — noting Pontificator’s objection — he could be Pincus’s right?
I’ve never understood Novak’s contention that his source was ‘no partisan gunslinger.’
What in the hell does that mean? Could it mean that his source was partisan as hell, but just didn’t have any guns to sling?
He stated in his article that he heard it from *two* high-level administrative officials. I’d defy anyone to point out one person on the administration that wasn’t partisan.
-Monk
Inflatable Dartboard – new ‘Scooter, Clinton Comparisons: Apples and Oranges’ article up – with a new graphic as well
http://darted.blogspot.com
Calm down, David. ;-)
Wow. I always accepted that “no partisan gunslinger” thing as bullshit. If anyone could explain to me anyone in this equation who would not, in the normal world, be considered a “partisan gunslinger” I have yet to hear their name.
In the world of BushCo, Fleischer was a bit of an outsider — he was not a NeoCon, nor did he come out of the College Republicans. He came out of Liddy Dole’s campaign, and was always a bit of a man without a country within the White House.
But please, please offer up a list of possibilities of people who had access to this information, would have been part of this plot and would have fed the info to Robert Novak and would qualify as “no partisan gunslinger.” I think you’ve raised that question before here, pontificator, and I would LOVE to hear your suggestions. I am ALL ears…..
Okay okay okay, I just realized something. No, seriously. Think about it…The neo-cons have effectively appointed Patrick Fitzgerald acting President of the United States. Everything, and I mean everything, depends on his next move.
Of course Bush has always been an empty suit; as a student, a businessman and a politician. Now, the apparatus that
held him up has almost completely vaporized.
Wolfowitz, having humiliated himself as a foreign policy advisor has been pensioned out to the World Bank. Perle is under indictment for financial crimes at Hollinger. Feith left under a cloud and now, Libby has baked himself into a prison-bound cake, neglecting to include a hacksaw. Even old stonefaced Cheney can feel the laser sight illuminating a tiny round red dot in the center of his forehead as he stumbles desperately backward toward the edge of a very tall cliff.
The Republican Party is no position to help. Frist and DeLay have soiled themselves publicly and the rest of the crew is feverishly biting its own tail over the SCOTUS appointment. Even their boon MSM apologists are more incoherent than usual. In their most recent appearances Brooks and Carlson looked like two monkeys trying to
f–k a football.
Better times ahead. All Hail The Chief.
Jane, you and Redd are brilliant.
The biggest problem with the theory that Fleischer is the “third man” is the fact that Novak has said that his original source was “no partisan gunslinger.” Fleischer, as a press secretary, was quite clearly a partisan gunslinger.
Novak could have been lying, of course, but that is a problem with the theory.
Wilson46201-
I like that! Espionage pardons would be unthinkable.
That’s what Me was referring to when he said Fitz will make it impossible for Bush to pardon anyone.
I have been asking the Ari question for awhile..and I have been curious WHO the Pincus contact was for awhile. Also Ari’s last day was the day of the Novack article- read the WH press conference that day 7-14-05- Helen t. asked about the WMD issue, and the Wilson issue, etc…it was a killer press conference.Thank you for bring ing Ari up…( I think I blogged about him in October on http://watergatesummer.blogspot.com/)
What, if any, is the significance of the tiing of Fleischer’s resignation form the WH? Didn’t he sate intentions to retire mid May, 2003 and then actually have his end day sometime in July, 2003?
as I said in a previous thread: perjury and obstruction would be crimes that could be pardoned at some tolerable political cost to the Preznit. ESPIONAGE pardons would be unthinkable.
Ari’s fleshy parts? Fun, fun, fun!
since Cheney was aware that Ms.Plame worked in the ’spook’ side of the CIA, he was required to prevent this information from being disseminated. He was also required to report this violation of security rules (”Don’t ‘out’ spooks.”). It seems like a conspiracy. Even if Ari didn’t get the info from ‘perusing’ the StateDept memo, Cheney KNEW and didn’t stop it.
Bad Vice President. Very bad…
I don’t have any visibility into this, but why if WH staffers have been passing classified information to uncleared people, why hasn’t their access been pulled?
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To be clear about something: Fitz knows Dick.
Gov. Ryan was indictment # 66. Fitz has a while to go. There has been some speculation that Bush would hand out blanket pardons before leaving office. What if Fitz takes his time and this isn’t wrapped up before Bush leaves office?
It’s fairly clear that Cheney is guilty as sin. I wonder if he will try to get off on technicality? Try selling that to his law and order loving base.
I think you are right that Ari Fleisher is singing. He would simultaneously sing both parts of the harmony if he could. And why not? If he lies, he goes down for perjury. He is removed from the actual law breaking, so he can’t take the fifth. If he refuses to answer, he goes to jail for contempt. Fitz has the fleshy parts of Ari’s body in what ever compression device he wants to have them in and he can make Ari hit a high-C whenever he wants.
Yup, Fitz knows Dick.
-
I smell a CONSPIRACY….
but yet they want us to believe that Bush and Rove had no knowledge of Ari’s skullduggery? It seems Cheney was aware of the process and even instructed Libby to pile on too…
I meant above that “I” feel silly.
ok, not really,
well, feel silly – Jane mentioned conspiracy right up top. And now Seymour Hersh. Good to see one can take a quick sneak out the window and still pick up a breeze.
Kathi – i read that his wife was formerly a lawyer for the Dems.
Kitty
Now, as to why would Libby give it up when he knows he will be pardoned in a few yrs? Because he is an out doorguy of 55 and a few yrs will be very very hard to do – let alone 30.
Since he has a wife and 2 kids, i would imagine they might have something to say about this. If I were married, and my husband chose his boss over me and my children, I’d divorce the Bastard!
Thanks Ccow – the one good thing about not being in the thiuck of this everyday is one avoids info overload…
Surgeon General’s Warning:
The Capitol Steps will cause your sides to split.
-C. Everett Koop, 1/6/89
http://www.capsteps.com/
on wbur.org now, great satirical revue.
“What a Difference DeLay Makes”
“Crony, Crony”
I think you’re probably right, Kitty. I just think the conspiracy business is in the works now.