• Reuters reports a Fitzgerald sighting today:
Fitzgerald spent the day in Washington with his deputies as he prepared to wrap up the two-year investigation.
The prosecutor, who has joked about not looking good in photos, took a short break to walk to nearby Antons barber shop, where he got a shoe shine.
(snip)
"He was very friendly and he looked happy. He was very relaxed," one of the owners of the shop said, adding: "The shoe shine guy doesn’t ask questions. Customers have a right to privacy."
Boy, we hope he didn’t take our rumpled suit comments to heart. Ken Starr was always quite polished and he was a dick.
•Jonathan Chiat has an interesting rebuttal to Kay Bailey Bitcheson and others who are pooh-poohing perjury:
It’s certainly true that not even Karl Rove deserves to go to prison for accidental or inconsequential misstatements. But, if Rove didn’t do anything illegal in the first place, then why would he obstruct justice or perjure himself in some substantive way? Clinton’s motive for lying was perfectly clear: He wanted to avoid the personal and political embarrassment of confessing his perfectly legal affair with Monica Lewinsky. Indeed, a whole strand of Starr’s investigation was set up in order to trap Clinton into lying under oath about his sex life. What motive would Bush’s men have to lie except to thwart the prosecution?
• Jeralyn (who called the whole Scooter/WHIG thing from the get-go) places her bets.
•Digby offers advice to professional bloviators:
This is why we shove their previous mantras about perjury and obstruction and "rule of law" in their faces. This is why we repeat the words that Bush used in the 2000 campaign about "not only doing what is legal but what is right." This is why we always, always, bring this back to the fact that 2000 Americans are dead and tens of thousands are disabled because of a war that the administration lied about — lies that Karl Rove and Scooter Libby tried to cover up.
• Sean Hannity takes a break from his role as king of the chronic masturbators of Hannidate to bash Fitzgerald, according to Think Progress. Wow. I mean, what, no unpaid parking tickets?
•TBogg wonders if Condi has been a-late night cavorting though the DC piano-bars with Kenn Mehlman, "who can belt out a mean The Man I Love after a few Sweet Bad Mamas, lemme tell you."
•NY Daily News: "While White House staffers were tense, Fitzgerald’s team relaxed from their stoic, all-business demeanor. The cheery prosecutors shared an elevator ride with a News reporter and cracked up over a private joke." Roger: "Must be the one that starts, "Libby, Rove and Dick Cheney go into a cell…."
•And IBD is reporting that an announcement of indictments tomorrow could trigger a sell-off of the dollar, Treasurys and stocks. For all the robber barons who put these crooks in office — don’t say we didn’t warn you. Everything they touch turns to shit.



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“morituri te salutant” is many who are about to die saluting one emperor. i think turdblossom should be saying
“moriturus vos salutat”.
bbqueen 8:10
Thanks. That poem gives me the shivers. So much said there, and yet I can’t claim that I understand all of it.
okay, I see that a new article is up. gotta go check it out.
-
rexie: ahhh, when lilacs last in dooryards bloomed. ur friend may still yet suface. look for her.
bbqueen-
Sorry, what with the Yeats and Eliot and all, I thought you were a TG friend of mine who I haven’t seen in years.
Rexie; would that it were. i am rumplestilskin.
You guys are fixated on Rove too much. The meat’s somewhere else. Imho, that Rove may not be charged means the neocons are gonna get thwacked.
In other words, no hiding behind the big boys. This, imo, is the meaning of Richard Sale’s latest, focusing of Bolton, Wurmser, and Fleitz. Why is it that the NYT fixated on Cheney the other day?
Riddle me this, and you may have the way Fitzgerlad will move tomorrow.
Rover and out.
Actually, its kind of fascinating to watch the effect Rove’s octopus ink cloud of spin and misinformation is having on people here.
You would think no one here had any idea of his m. o.,, the plays in his playbook.
bbq queen…
Caitlin? Is that you?
how about humpty dumpty? we all know that. and the wasteland.
yeah, that’s actually the only poem I know.
The Second Coming
Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
Troubles my sight: somewhere in sands of the desert
A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.
The darkness drops again; but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
Her we go…from P last night:
From University of Dayton – School of Law:
Federal grand juries are of two types–regular and special. Regular grand juries sit for a basic term of 18 months, but that term can be extended up to another 6 months, which means their total possible term is 24 months. Special grand juries sit for 18 months, but their term can be extended for up to another 18 months; a court can extend a special grand jury’s term for 6 months, and can enter up to three such extensions, totaling 18 months.
I know the Times has been shit lately, but would they really put out a story saying, “Rove not indicted,” without confirming it with someone without an agenda (i.e. NOT Luskin)?
Hey, folks…last night, didn’t someone post the GJ rules…and it stated that a Special Grand Jury can be extended for up to 18 months more than a regular GJ and this is a Special GJ…so no problem extending…
bbqueen 7:50
great Yeats quote. what rude beast is this… etc. If you’ve got the time to find the whole thing on google, I’d love to read it. I gotta get on an airplane soon, out of internet range, and haven’t packed. Arrgh.
-
u only need a judge to empanel a new gj. that decision has probably already been made. i never heared ofa case where a judge has refused to empanel one and this prosecutor is no lightweight. .
“Okay, now if this were reputable, wouldn’t the writer know that the GJ has already had its last extension? I am clinging to this. If Rove skates, I…I…I don’t know what I’ll do. Break something. Scream real loud. Go on a three-day Chips Ahoy bender.”
The quote was from the new york times. Go to nytimes.com
Siun wrote: “Gergen is saying that letting Rove hang “slowly twisting in the wind” is worse than indict since they would need to impanel a new gj and that would take time so Rove is stuck for a long time and ineffective.”
This is absolutely correct. Scooter gets the swift execution on indictments tomorrow. For Rove, it is sounding more like the “death of a thousand cuts.” Couldn’t happen to a bigger skeezeball.
I still can’t buy this rove stuff…I mean, he’s gotta appear 4x? Then, there are reports Fitz is at his office begging for a plea, but Rove says no, and there’s no charges? None?
We’ve gone from 22 indictments to 1-5 to 1? WTF? And it’s, while serious, just a false statements charge? Nothing for judyjudy’s hours of ‘not remembering’?
If this is true, and Fitz did his best, I canlive with it…it is what it is. But there’s no way he can get a new GJ empanneled…he’ll be ridiculed right outaa DC.
“Karl Rove, President Bush’s senior adviser and deputy chief of staff, will not be charged on Friday, but will remain under investigation, people briefed officially about the case said. As a result, they said, the special counsel in the case, Patrick J. Fitzgerald, was likely to extend the term of the federal grand jury beyond its scheduled expiration on Friday.”
Okay, now if this were reputable, wouldn’t the writer know that the GJ has already had its last extension? I am clinging to this. If Rove skates, I…I…I don’t know what I’ll do. Break something. Scream real loud. Go on a three-day Chips Ahoy bender.
just finished reading jane’s latest. . .feel a little better. . .putting away blades and cyanide tablets. . .
Woodward has always been over-rated. He did not cause the downfall of Nixon; the elites were unhappy with him. The elites are very unhappy with GWB because he did not deliver on SS privatization; so they will let him be finished.
See this, for example.
Notice how unflattering press articles(as on Delay) show up often many years after the fact, around the time they want someone out. Coincidence?
Ok, if you folks insist on making yourselves miserable, go ahead.
It will be interesting to see what the Post comes up with at 12:00. I am hoping the Rove talk is spin but have decided that whatever way it blows to trust Fitz. and karma.
More like Fitzakah — an extended gift-giving holiday:
nytimes.com
WASHINGTON, Oct. 27 – Associates of I. Lewis Libby Jr., Vice President Dick Cheney’s chief of staff, expected an indictment on Friday charging him with making false statements to the grand jury in the C.I.A. leak inquiry, lawyers in the case said Thursday.
Karl Rove, President Bush’s senior adviser and deputy chief of staff, will not be charged on Friday, but will remain under investigation, people briefed officially about the case said. As a result, they said, the special counsel in the case, Patrick J. Fitzgerald, was likely to extend the term of the federal grand jury beyond its scheduled expiration on Friday.
Gergen is saying that letting Rove hang “slowly twisting in the wind” is worse than indict since they would need to impanel a new gj and that would take time so Rove is stuck for a long time and ineffective.
and now I’m going to go back to catching up – I actually had to do some work today and missed 3 wonderful posts here and all these juicy comments … speedreading to keep up!
Fred Fleitz. I believe it was late last week (which seems like ages ago) that Mr. Fleitz came to prominence on this blog. As to Woodward’s column on Fleitz (*sigh*), I’m just not sure ole Woody hasn’t lost a few brain cells since his Watergate triumph. I watched a few minutes of Larry King – finally having a show about Miers/Affaire Valerie, in which he sounded like a rightwing journalist. Not just a MSM journalist, he sounded like a slightly coherrent editor of the Wall Street Journal. What I’m saying is – coming from Woodward, I’m not so sure Fleitz is involved. Coming from FDL and their sources, maybe so. I’ve got a tener on youse guys. Keep it up!
this sucks…and there’s no way, politically, fitz can start over with a new GJ…it’ll look like he’s reaching when he’s got nothing…
lump of coal..
It’s 10:52 here in NYC. I’m alone in my office. I’ve spent most of the day refreshing comment pages, going back and forth between drudge, raw story, josh marshall, daily kos, etc.
Bottle of Makers Mark almost finished. . .switching to rubbing alcohol in a few mins. . .
deep breaths. . .keep the faith. . .
Redd, you might want to repront that last comment in bold. These panicky folks are missing the message, and they’re not believing me when I say it, but they will believe you more.
Marysz — the one thing that is incorrect in that supposition from the DKos poster is that there would be some official statement from the Court. That will not happen until the expiration of the current grand jury term. If there were to be discussions about extending the g/j (which I am not certain is permissible under the rules) or empanelling a new one, that would not even be discussed outside the judges chambers until the end of this grand jury tomorrow.
I can’t say this strongly enough — anything that you are reading in the papers is a plant from one defense attorney or political spin person if its anonymous. And Fitz and company aren’t leaking. So whatever news we are getting is spin to be interpreted as we can, save for a few well-placed friends of friends leaks that folks like Waas have tapped into somehow. Read everything — and I do mean everything — with a large grain of salt.
The line in tonight’s NYT story that I trust:
“Mr. Fitzgerald’s spokesman, Randall Samborn, declined to comment.”
Hard to sort out the rest – extending this jury seems impossible legally unless there’s some special dispensation for St. Fitz – and a Libby indictment (which just a few days ago would have cheered us all immensely) seems to be just the beginning acc. to the story – Rove being still under investigation which is the point Gergen is making on CNN right now.
Redd -
It was TERRIBLE.
She’s OK now, but after they rendered their guilty verdict, she was a mess. Little Miss PG got a really bad dose of unspeakable perversity.
I mean it. I would torture this prick (I know it’s wrong to feel that way). But, then, I’m sure the boys in the joint will act in my stead. Two things they hate most: traitors and pedos.
—
Wonder if Woodward plans on writing a book about how that big meanie Fitzpatrick had it in for his pals at the WH, who give him such good…..uh…..access. Or whatever.
Julie | Homepage | 10.27.05 – 7:06 pm | #
The Washington “establishment” seem to be playing the same tune. I have a great deal of admiration for Richard Clark, but he was being interviewed on Air America last night (about his new book (fiction)) and was asked about the Plame-leak investigation.
He said he thought it was terrible – that politics shouldn’t be “criminalized” (thanks Oliphant for giving Hannity & Co that pithy phrase). I think the interviewer (Sam Seder) was shocked by Clark’s response and probed a bit. Clark explained that of course the prosecutor was going to indict – “because that’s all prosecutors do” – and it’s horrible that each party out of power has to go after the one in power with prosecutors.
Can he really be that obtuse? Does he really put leaking a CIA agent’s identify and lying us into a war on the same level as Clinton’s lying about sex?
Seder pointed out to him that serious laws may have been broken, national security may have been compromised (why does the former national security advisor need to have this pointed out to him?) and that people may have died as a result. At that point Clark started to equivocate a bit – mumbled something and then the interview was over.
Like I said – I was deeply disappointed and disillusioned.
As nice as it would be to see Rove frogmarched, he’s a political hack. Libby is a policy guy. He’s Dick Cheney’s alter ego. Together, they cooked up the Iraq war. Fitzgerald has the whole neo-con operation in his sights now. Take the bigger view….Libby is far more important if we want to undo the mess of the neo-cons. Rove would have been a side-show….
I just don’t see how Cheney survives this, but that’s just me…
—
“NYT says Libby yes, Rover, not yet…
fuck…and all they got libby on is ‘false statements’? fucking a….might as well be jaywalking…
What, you people are going to trust Luskin’s spin to the NYT?
How the hell would the Times know if Fitzy “has” Rove yet. Fitzy’s people say nothing.
If Rove rejects the perjury plea, there will be more charges added afterward.
Everyone who gets the willies that Rove might skate, please reread my post above about the Rove/Luskin PR campaign and spin. Then read it again. Print it out and put it next to your bed.
Hang in there.
I agree with everyone else that the NYT is projecting optimistic spin from Rove and Libby’s lawyers.
I’ve just posted my comprehensive assessment of who I think is in jeopardy for what.
We’ll all see what Father Fitzmas leaves under the tree for the bad little boys and girls tomorrow. :)
so you’re saying that rove is still going down, right? come on baby, pretend I’m a republican; just tell me what I want to hear.
ReddHedd…What exactly can this mean
“people briefed officially about the case said” ?
That’s where the Rove info comes from.
Awww, BobbyG — give her an extra hug from me. That was my daily life for several years. It’s no wonder I’m home with my toddler now, fighting my battles online, eh? Tell her a long, hot soak in the bath does wonders.
the center will not hold
wbyeats
A good comment over at Kos:
“This looks like spin. With this in the air, if Rove is indicted, it will look like Fitzgerald flipped a coin at the last minute and decided to go for it. The bit about extending the grand jury seems weird. You’d think that someone “officially briefed” would include a detail from that official briefing explaining that–either that the judge is set to grant an unusual extension due to extenuating circumstances or that a new grand jury will be empaneled. Without that, this does not make sense.
ALSO, remember the sealed indictment situation … If Rove is indicted but the indictment remains sealed pending plea-bargaining, is he “charged”?
I smell a Luskin.”
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/10/27/22187/558
NYT says Libby yes, Rover, not yet…
Let me know when a reputable newpaper reports something. Then I’ll believe it.
Â
Though the mills of God grind slowly,
yet they grind exceeding small.
Though with patience He stands waiting,
with exactness grinds He all.
Ah, let me echo and emphasize what Jane said, which I wrote sometime myself in the last 24 hours:
EVERYTHING you are hearing about Rove is spin from his attorneys. End of story.
Now, would you trust that?
This spin is designed to set up the following post-indictment line of attack:
“Mr. Rove is an innocent victim, drawn up into a mess by working with other people who fouled up, and now targeted by a partisan, out of control prosecutor with an agenda. There should not have been charges, and now this guy Fitzgerald is out of control. Mr. Rove is, and always has been, a loyal, public servant, doing his duty to the president and to the American people.”
Please see the opening gambit of this PR campaign for what it is.
like in the stock market – performance VS expectations are what counts with the public. And given the msm’s small play on the Plame affair, unlike here, even one indictment of a high wh official, added to the war, katrina, ss, meiers, torture, but be a very big deal. pointedh, agree?
Redd _
“And I’ve seen a lot of horrible things in my lifetime, things you don’t even want to know about what human beings can do to each other and to their children.”
Yeah. My wife recently served on her first jury. We both have always gotten peremptoried because of our education levels and work (QA, statistics, etc).
She really needed therapy after her trial — grotesque child molestation that went on for years — perpetrated by a good upstanding LDS churchgoer. Unspeakable things this man did. I would torture him were I able to, both for what he did to this child and for the trauma it inflicted on my wife for her having to hear the quad-X rated details.
—
Me–are you still confident about them all going down?
Yhe Times:
“Karl Rove, President Bush’s senior adviser and deputy chief of staff, will not be charged on Friday, but will remain under investigation, people briefed officially about the case said. As a result, they said, the special counsel in the case, Patrick J. Fitzgerald, was likely to extend the term of the federal grand jury beyond its scheduled expiration on Friday.”
I’m reading this as a possible deal in the works on Rove?
I just want the GJ extended…to dig deeper.
“NYT says Libby yes, Rover, not yet…
fuck…and all they got libby on is ‘false statements’? fucking a….might as well be jaywalking…
Drudge Report: Karl Rove, President Bush’s senior adviser and deputy chief of staff, will not be charged on Friday, but would remain under investigation, people briefed officially about the case said…
Surely by now you know not to believe a word that comes out of Drudge’s slimy little pea brain.
The postman always rings twice.
.
Pointed — he can’t extend this particular grand jury. But he can empanel a new one to continue the investigation. It ain’t over until it is fully over. Wait until tomorrow to see the whole picture.
NYT says Libby yes, Rover, not yet…
http://nytimes.com/2005/10/28/…..nted=print
so you’re saying that rove is still going down, right? come on baby, pretend I’m a republican; just tell me what I want to hear.
“Reaching for katana blade…seppuku in five minutes”
I hope the patriot was momentarily channeling Bush there!
Patriot at al: did you just hear the Fineman dialogue on MSNBC, too?
Fitzgerald doesn’t believe Rove is telling the truth but he can’t make a case for perjury and he can’t extend the grand jury?
This the first time I heard this.
.
Deep Breath
RULE 1: Let your hopes be high, but your expectations be low. This is all part of being a member of the reality based community. If you get knocked back, keep working. What, you want Fitzy Claus to hand everything to you? This is a game for adults. Take responsibility.
RULE 2: See the whole board. Even if there are no indictments (which we can pretty much dismiss, since even the tagets’ lawyers are leaking that they expect indictments), there is still the civil suit the Wilsons will bring. That will put everything on the public record. Even if (worst case scenario) these thugs are in no legal danger, they will all be sued, disgraced, drummed out of American politics.
RULE 3: Keep a sense of humor After all, if Fitzy and his team are laughinh and having fun, as all reports seem to indicate, then you can too. It’s okay to be a happy warrior.
/end peptalk
“Everyone take a deep breath.”
Having said that, Fitz will do what is correct under the law and the facts he has at his disposal. That is what prosecutors do. And if I had to guess, whatever leak there is about Rove likely came from Luskin…or Rove…so try reading it with a large grain of salt.
This is the zen time in the law for prosecutors. What will be will be. You try to pop the perps that you can — every single one of them — and if Rove’s conduct requires more investigation, then that is exactly what he will get. If not, and his conduct merits indictment, then that is EXACTLY what he will get.
But the only persons who know the answers to these questions are Fitz and his team and the members of the Grand Jury. Arm chair speculating only gives you an ulcer. Hang back and we’ll see soon. Think happy, popcorn thoughts until then. I still think things look quite promising. And I’ve seen a lot of horrible things in my lifetime, things you don’t even want to know about what human beings can do to each other and to their children.
But this case has been meticulously followed by these folks from everything I’ve been able to glean from the outside, and I have confidence that Fitz and Co. will do the right thing. It’s a gut feeling on my part, no personal knowledge, but they have done the very things that I would have wanted them to do in following up on leads and such, and that is incredibly heartening. Have faith. We will know more tomorrow — straight from Fitz himself and not through the distorted filter of half-truths that you get from defense counsel on background. Have faith.
The thought of that fat f*ck Rove gloating…. Arrrrghhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!
“Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow, creeps in this petty pace from day to day, to the last syllable of recorded time; and all our yesterdays have lighted fools the way to dusty death.”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/….._9640.html
reaching for katana blade. . .seppuku in five minutes. . .someone tell me rove is still going down. . .
” Everyone take a deep breath.”
I am taking a deep draw of Aussie Shiraz…
—
Just bring on the post titled Acta est fabula.
Everyone take a deep breath.
So . . . according to the Times, the wily Rove has escaped indictment. Or at least delayed it. Fitzgerald may have met his match.
Crushing disappointment… if Rove slips by for any amount of time.
Richard Sale
State Told Libby About Plame
According to these same sources, Cheney still remains at the center of the probe. “The effort is to show that Cheney orchestrated the White House attempts to discredit Wilson,” said one.
  He added that Libby “has real problems with questions about obstruction of justice.”
  In the meantime, although indictments are expected Friday, there has been such a flurry of last minute plea bargains, including talks last night between Fitzgerald and Robert Luskin, attorney for Karl Rove , that announcements have been delayed.
   And still could be.
  According to sources close to the probe, Rove refused any plea.
  The outcome of talks with Libby are not yet known, these sources said.
  The purpose of Fitzgerald’s pressure at this point is to enable him “to get at as many senior White House officials as he can,” a federal law enforcement official said.
  But whatever happens, Fitzgerald is in for the long haul, say these sources. He has obtained new office space across the street from his present New York Avenue office and is expected to empanel a new grand jury. The current one expires on Friday.
  The target? The tale of the Niger forgeries and how they got into President Bush’s State of the Union address, said severall intelligence and law enforcement sources.
http://turcopolier.typepad.com….._libb.html
Hannity was just again dutifully spewing the lame line trivializing pending perjury charges in the Traitorgate probe. It’s just gonna be some unwarranted “gotcha” indictments resulting from these poor White House targets’ TOTALLY UNDERSTANDABLY erratic memories. Like these otherwise astonishly skilled bare-knuckled political Fight Game pros cannot be expected to go up against a prosecutor and GJ.
It’d be a legit complaint were it, for example, charges filed over a discrepancy in what Scooter ACTUALLY had for breakfast at the Hilton on June 23, 2003 and what his credit card receipt shows, etc. But, let’s keep our Eyes on the Prize, e.g., WHAT was the subject of the perjury/obstruction?
Asked and answered.
Merry Fitzmas. Bring it on.
—
ok, so this is when reddhedd and/or jane need to step in and say, “guys, don’t worry, fitzgerald is just strengthening his case against rove, talking to more people, etc.” right? RIGHT?!!!!
obviously, i need to keep things in perspective (libby and others being indicted is a big deal), but I’ll be hugely disappointed if turdblossom gets off without being charged. . .
ReddHedd, Jane, and anyone else who wants to jump in-
I need a little help setting my expectations for tomorrow. Me and others have set my expectations so high, that I am afraid that I will be disappointed tomorrow.
It will be a great day if there are lots of indictments, including Cheney, Libby, Rove and preferably including Bush as an unindicted co-conspirator. Even better if they find some way to throw Condi, Judi, and Ari in there.
It will be worse than election day if there are no indictments and the GJ is not extended. At least after the election I thought that given enough rope they would do something worse than Watergate and bring about their own downfall. IÂ’d probably go to bed for at least a month.
But what about if Libby and Rove are the only ones indicted and a new GJ is not announced. Will that be enough? Will it be cause for celebration?
Even if its just as an armchair member, I want to be part of the French Revolution, not the Warsaw Uprising. IÂ’m just not sure what the threshold is for determining the difference anymore.
And I want to thank you all for being my companions and my teachers and for being a source of light in these dark times!
pointed head: i miss u; i am not a troll (ugly yes, but not for a tg (trans gender) who had her operation slightly botched — anyway, what is a commissar, in the internet sense? and by the way, i ment to insult no one, plz forgive me if i did. war is hell.
Raw story retracts the Fitz real estate deal.
Gerger gets ready for his 5th WH stint; thinks 0-5 tomorrow.
Woodward is seriously messed up, working on his multi-volume insiders’ follow-up, claiming nobody got hurt?? What a dick.
Everyone agrees it’s all about Iraq and that if anything (even just a tiny little perjury charge) will trigger a massive “trial” about the war.
Larry’s panel sez: the war is IN the WH now. Bout time.
How does Woodward know about the alleged CIA damage assessment? I don’t think any of that rest of us have been privy to that information. Of course, the theme of this administration is that the plebes don’t have a right to know the truth. Instead of the weenie sounding motto, “We Can Do Better,” I think we need something that opposes the image and spin worship that has come to afflict us, like for example: “Truth Matters.”
Do you’ll see Drudge’s siren? Rove not to be charged… more….
For the part of Woodward, I recommend Cesar Romero:
http://www.geocities.com/Holly…..539-58.jpg
.
NYT say Libby to be indicted but Rove will Not be
NY
Summary
We know exactly what we knew last night at this time.
Drudge Report: Karl Rove, President Bush’s senior adviser and deputy chief of staff, will not be charged on Friday, but would remain under investigation, people briefed officially about the case said…
http://www.drudgereport.com
Welcome back, NYBri. I’m still catching up mayself. Made the trip from DC to Long Island in 4.5 hours.
Let Woodward bloviate.
One of the ancillary benefits of the coming months will be to smoke out very clearly those in the establishment Washington media who have been lapdops and enablers.
Tweety has been among them, but as a ratings whore with a cause (himself), he’s made the necessary pivot, at least for the time being. But these others. . . well it’s going to be a show.
Just got home from driving 13 hours from NC…ran in here and all hell has broken loose. I mean, I leave this all to you guys for ONE DAY and you have the WH throwing CHeney under the bus and Fitz getting a shoe shine.
somebody give me an update, please…in 20 words or less.
Just up on Salon, a comprehensive look at Cheney’s role. Very detailed info.
All the vice president’s men
The ideologues in Cheney’s inner circle drummed up a war. Now their zealotry is blowing up in their faces.
By Juan Cole
Hard to know what to highlight, but here’s a bit:
“Wurmser was picked by fellow neoconservative and Undersecretary of Defense for Planning Douglas Feith (whom the departing Colin Powell denounced to George W. Bush as a “card-carrying member of the Likud”) after Sept. 11 to form part of the notorious Office of Special Plans in the Near East and South Asia division of the Department of Defense. That unit cherry-picked intelligence on Iraqi weapons of mass destruction and Saddam’s alleged links to al-Qaida, singling out unreliable, single-sourced accounts and stripping them of any context that would show where they came from. These were then stovepiped to Libby and Hannah in Cheney’s office, so as to go directly to Bush and make an end run around the professional intelligence agencies. When allegations emerged that corrupt Iraqi businessman and longtime expatriate politician Ahmad Chalabi had been given classified information about U.S. intelligence efforts against Iran, and had promptly passed it on to Tehran, Wurmser was among the officials the FBI interviewed searching for the leak.
http://www.salon.com/news/feat…..president/
woodward is starting to remind me of kristol.
Wow, you know, now that you mention it — that is ultra-creepy true.
“We who are about to lie salute you?
Nos mentituri te salutamus!
Remembering Reagan: I live in a small conservative, church filled, town. Most vote republican. At a local group I attend with many older women from this area, I happened to mention Reagan and 2 older women sat up and just about spat out the name “Reagan, that MFofaman” — I was speechless.
It turns out that during his reign they both lost their farms (been in their families for generations) and many of their neighbors lost theirs. Bought up for pennies on the dollar by developers.
They pray everyday that Reagan is in a very hot place.
Wonder if Woodward plans on writing a book about how that big meanie Fitzpatrick had it in for his pals at the WH, who give him such good…..uh…..access. Or whatever.
Gergen just said that its going to be 0-5 indictments; earlier in the week Steve Clemons said 1-5. Now Woodward is saying that outing Plame did not cause damage, according to an assessment by the CIA.
dodds says at least one indictment, Woodward is making excuses “these are human beings” – he obvioulsy is not. Give us a break.
LeftAhead – Bush is the antithesis of Reagan in terms of message. Be happy he is. Their is nothing revisionist about it and “hating” Reagan does nothing for you today. Preznit is who needs to go, and he lacks most, if not all, of the qualities (whether you admire them or not) that got Reagan elected twice and through Iran/Contra. Again, you may disagree.
Pointed Head: ITA about the Woodward/kristol doppleganger thing. Freaky! Woodward must want access again to the WH for his next idiotic book about the Bush administration
I don’t think Iran/Contra had the domestic angle
…except for the tons of cocaine that ended up in US cities, to fund their illegal weapons purchases from Adnon Kashoggi…
afa the Gipper’s popularity, it’s easy to explain, and it also explains a lot of Bush’s popularity: A large segment of the US population just wants to hear that it’s ‘Morning in America,’ and all’s fine and dandy in the world…
all the while pretending that ketchup is a vegetable, welfare queens are driving Cadillacs, and AIDs doesn’t exist.
Don’t fall for any Repuglican revisionist history–Reagan was a smiling fascist with a heart of coal.
Jane: re: Woodward
You are so right. He’s been an establishment hack for 25 years, easy.
any idea what time we might see a press conference tomorrow? I’m on the west coast and don’t want to sleep through it after all this waiting.
woodward wouldn’t know which wind came from which ass – evidentially or otherwise
woodward is starting to remind me of kristol. he has the same smarmy self-satisfied smirk and he is just as dishonest.
.
One note regarding indictments, which Otis commented on earlier. Don’t worry about the number of INDICTMENTS. You can have ONE indictment with as many individuals (Rover, Libby and anyone else) and as many counts (crimes – conspiracy, perjury, espionage act, whatever law is applicable) as necessary charged in the 1 INDICTMENT.
It is not like each individual criminal gets his own indictment. I think you are worrying yourselves too much.
My wife and watched, Natural Born KIllers tonight so as to relax before the big day. After watching the movie we have decided the the perfect actor to play Dick Cheney in the Plame movie would be Woody Harrelson. Perfect.
Woodward’s a whore who only weeks ago was saying Patrick Fitzgerald was turning the US into a banana republic by jailing Judy Miller. Must be hard to jump on the bandwagon and keep your GOP shill card active at the same time.
bob woodward is a real smarmy weasel.
i am watching him on larry king right now. his quote: “this case has nothing to do with the run up to war”.
???
“we who are about to die salute you!”
In Rove’s case, shouldn’t it be, “We who are about to lie salute you?
Thanks, Jane and ReddHedd, for all your excellent reporting. I check your site four or five times a day. You do excellent work!
Hamsher comments that other people need to use google.
Yeah. Yeah, that was me.
she meant to say- Morituri te salutamus
Wow, I’m glad we cleared that up.
but then she doesn’t care about being right.
No, I leave that to other people.
Who might want to think about knocking off the Jagermeister for the evening.
epa
the iran contra had direct relation to domestic politics & benefits
from boeing to the the bong
in this pretty little period cocaine & heroin destroyed a generation of future militants in the communities of the poor
I think Rover is dealing for a lot more than a simple perjury charge. The evidence, the weight of the case (prosecutors coming and going with many pounds of documents)… Indicate somthing substantially more serious imo.
We have seen this term “cabal” being thrown around in the MSM… It’s a pre-indictment word for “conspiracy”… If you are a participant in a conspiracy, say by trying to cover it up… And _one_ person commits a high crime… All conspirators pay the price in criminal charges. It’s a tough rap to beat, the conspiracy laws were written to cover this exact circumstance.
Somebody was asking about RICO… I have a good link:
http://www.ricoact.com/
Fitzgerald is considered by many to be the top RICO prosecutor in the country. He gets “creative” in applying RICO law to conspiracy type crimes, and used RICO in taking down ex-Gov Ryan in Illinois.
The other area of law he could use to “throw the book” would be federal civil rights laws.
Then there is the civil suit waiting in the wings to be filed by the Wilsons.
The fact he had field agents verifying Plames covert status clearly implies he intends to charge for the Intellegence Identities Act.
There is also mishandling classified information… The MSM is saying it’s fine for these guys to accumulate classified information on their political enemies and talk about it around the office… But in truth it is against the law… Nixon kept an enemies list, and the material they collected was not really “classified” it enough to burn a person in government to even imply they are using the nations resources to target enemies…
Plus… There is a “need to know” basis on classified information… Not one of these people had a valid reason to need to know Plame’s status with the CIA… If one person did actually have a need to know, it’s a violation to talk about it with your office buddies or staff…
But talk they did… And Fitz, if he follows the law, should be able to hit them on every count.
Does anybody know how to get a copy of conspiracy indictment Fitzgerald was able to get on a past case? I would be interested in reading it in order to get a feel for his narrative style.
DNC about aCall Girl Ring being run our of DNC Headquarters!!
you gotta be kidding me. during watergate, one of the smear campaigns directed at john dean was that his wife was a callgirl.
swear to god.
And IBD is reporting that an announcement of indictments tomorrow could trigger a sell-off of the dollar, Treasurys and stocks.
IBD is a reactionary asswipe that makes the editorial page of the Walll Street Journal look like The Nation. They will say or do anything that they think might pleasure Karl Rove.
That doesn’t mean they’re necessarily wrong in this instance, but I had to get that off my chest. I’ve hated those fuckers for many many years.
And I also wouldn’t be surprised if we get a big relief rally tomorrow after Fitz announces whatever he’s going to announce.
Ever hear Colson, the Born Again Preacher-man? It’s frightening to think he actually believes himself.
Folks, get some sleep tonight…it’s gonna be a humdinger tomorrow; and probably for the next few weeks.
If the universe decides to be benevolent for a change, we’ll see at least two indictments tomorrow (Rove and Libby), and an extension of the GJ to give Fitz a bit more time to sweat out the rest of the weasels.
That picture of Rove above is him trying to keep all the evil from exploding out of his awful head. You can’t imagine the pressure all those demons are causing!
.
Re: rwcole 6:20PM
Whatchu SAY big guy!!! ROFL unfortunately Latin follows us whether we like it er not…all our old Latin teachers are dead but (unfortunately) Latin ain’t.
If Libby and Rove are indicted, will this mean that Congress will finally have to launch it’s own investigation. I think if they don’t, the repubs will be toast in 06
What a dumb fuck he still is!! Liddy, I mean. Not a shred of remorse or guilt sheesh.
I can’t believe it!! Gordon Liddy is on Rita Cosby(pardon me while I puke!) He is actually trying to suggest that the break in at the Watergate was an attempt to get Info on the DNC about aCall Girl Ring being run our of DNC Headquarters!! Wow! I guess we are all wrong, maybe we should see him as a HERO!!! Then he made a remark about how John Dean caved and committed Perjury and that’s how he got caught!!!
Now waiting for Karl Berstein to reply to the allegation…
rwcole: go easy on me, I’ve been out of the loop away from the Internet all day!
8:57 p.m. EDT just heard Michael Savage say on The Savage Nation:
“Indictments expected tomorrow from Patrick Fitzgerald. Don’t rush to judgment. This man could be the Eliot Ness of our time. He has is not biased against the Bush administration.”
Just poured my nightly margarita- and come back to discover- more fuckin latin! Not only fuckin latin- but corrections of fuckin latin.
It’s a dead fuckin language- even Pope Bennie hates it.
Enough already!
Ken Starr and George Will were always quite polished, and both are a dick.
Like a conjoined kind of thing?
GAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH!!
Yeah, but that bit of right-wing wackoness just gives the message on Fitz more weight: he’s telling people to back off on the Fitz attacks, because he’s likely the most effective prosecutor in America and is a genuine asset in the war vs. Al-Queda.
Actually, the line for first person plural is “Nos moritori te salutamus!”
“We who are about to die salute you.”
That’s what the gladiators at the colossuem in Rome shouted to the emperero before their fights.
Man, I love that latin title. You know Fitzy had to learn that phrase in Latin I at Regis HS.
Guh. The link in a link to talkleft outlining ‘how karl rove could walk’ distinguishing between perjury and ‘making a false statement’ or through his cooperation is not what I want to contemplate right now. He talked to Cooper, he sent an email to Hadley, and he evidently revealed conscious wrongdoing by telling Cooper “I’ve already said too much.” Just don’t see how he’s fooling anyone. I also don’t see how he gets off for cooperating unless it sacrifices the top rung in the ladder.
Factor in the ‘tip of the iceberg’ reality for what we know in this case, and I don’t see how it helps prospects for escape.
If Rove walks and lives to ply his twisted wares in future elections…can’t even go there.
At the Steve Clemons post, linked by Jane above, we learn that Fred Fleitz is on a two-day leave, and will “return to the office Monday morning”.
Â
From that American Spectator article:
While the Plame imbroglio does not rise to that level of seriousness, the same can be said (assuming there are charges for perjury or obstruction) of the indicted in this case.
GAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH!! How does a blow-job in the White House not rise to the level of compromising national security and taking the nation to war on false pretenses?
Cinton: Couple thousand stray speramatozoa dead on a blue dress.
Bush: Couple thousand Americans dead on the streets and fields of Iraq.
*sputters with incoherent rage*
Tomorrow cannot come quickly enough. INDICT! IMPEACH!! DESTROYYYYY!!!!!
If this turns into a one time event- some indictments- or pleas- and President Clusterfuck cleans house- it will die away rather quickly (assuming that Clusterfuck and Ticky aren’t directly connected).
On the other hand, if Fitzy drops some indictments and continues his probe- dropping a few more from time to time- we have not just an event but an ongoing narrative- which could be death to this president.
Let’s hope that Fitzy is enjoying this and decided to make a career of it.
Hamsher comments that other people need to use google… let’s be clear that her headline does NOT mean what she says- she meant to say- Morituri te salutamus- but then she doesn’t care about being right.
Josh has an interesting post at TPM.
He says that
As Sen. Boxer put it this afternoon… we have 17,000 dead and wounded for what…?
Maybe just maybe, America will finally be free of the vile warmongers leftover from the Pre-Nixon/Nixon/Military-Industrial-Media Complex. There may finally be a reckoning.
We may get our country back.
At DailyKos talking about a rumor (via Clemons)
This source, supported by three others, alleged that it was a telephone call from the Department of State that first gave Libby the name of Plame.
The name of the caller? No one is sure. But these sources said that the call defintely came from the State Department office of John Bolton, then the arms control chief of the department. The same sources who say Cheney wasn’t Libby’s source believe Plame’s name came from Fleitz, to Wurmser, to Libby.
Therefore, Since Cheney and Libby were cleared for classified documents and they didn’t know that Plame was undercover there was no problem. But if it came from Flietz then it is a whole different issue.
Swopa has a take on this too.
http://www.needlenose.com/node/view/2176
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Hell I failed high school latin- enough already!
or ‘Alea jacta est” ?
High Drama in the Air
I suppose tonite it would be appropriate for someone to finally utter:
“Anerriphthô Kubos”
or ‘let the dice be cast’
An alternate translation:
“The game is afoot”
Apparently while crossing the Rubicon ,even Caesar, as a budding politician/dictator, ‘borrowed’ the phrase from his favorite Greek poet-dramatist, Menander
The Me backers and detractors might enjoy this description of Pat Fitzgerald on a right-wing site. Kind of echos what Me says:
http://www.spectator.org/blogg…..BlogID=457
Credit to Digby, who mentions the link in a larger article.
R’giap – Again, all just IMO, I do think this is worse, but I am not intending to say Iran/Contra was not important, or to minimize peoples’ suffering. Traitorgate is as much if not more about domestic politics and policy as it is foriegn politics policy, and yeah, I think that is an important distinction. I don’t think Iran/Contra had the domestic angle, or if it did, that it was nearly as significant. We are witnessing the uncovering of a domestic coup, not a foriegn one.
Rumor over at Steve Clemons — Bob Woodward writing an article in WaPo about Fred Fleitz’ involvement.
Take with grain of salt, but certainly not the first time we’ve heard Fleitz’ name.
Re: Juan 5:11 PM
Letz not get thnigz too far outta perspective here. Both Watergate AND IranContra were terribly serious. Watergate waz the product of years of protecting policies that ended with over 55,000 Americans dead and hundreds of thousandz of Vietnamese and went to the heart of our system of government-free elctions. IranContra waz nuthin if not an extension of the perversion of our system pursued in the Nixon nightmare…with tens of thousands dead in central America and a thumbing of the nose to our system of representative democracy.
Treasongate IS far worse than either but itz etiology lies in both. This ain’t an anomaly and while bein the most dangerous and horrendous in history must not deminish our understandin’ of the otherz.
Regan waz a very dangerous tyrant…the only difference between the Reagan crimes and Bush’s iz Alzheimer’s and popularity.
Jane and ReddHedd et al.,
Thanks so much for your witty, articulate, perceptive, and pithy commentary. What a joy to find FDL.
Arrggh! Tomorrow I have to leave by 1:00 for a long-planned week-long trip. I doubt that my elderly host and hostess would take kindly to me commandeering their phone line so that I can get online to check for the latest via FDL. It’s going to be painful!
Bon courage!
-
New from Booman Tribune – oh boy, John Bolton hauled off in chains would be a GREAT Fitzmas present! Here are a few snips, much more at the link:
State Department phone call gave key aide name of CIA officer
By Richard Sale, Intelligence Correspondent
A State Department phone call, not Vice President Cheney, revealed to I. Lewis Libby, Cheney’s chief of staff, the identity of the CIA operative at the heart of the current CIA leak investigation being conducted by Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald, according to former senior and serving U.S. intelligence officials.
(snip)
This source, supported by three others, alleged that it was a telephone call from the Department of State that first gave Libby the name of Plame.
The name of the caller? No one is sure. But these sources said that the call definitely came from the State Department office of John Bolton, then the arms control chief of the department.
These same sources alleged that two employees of Bolton, David Wurmser, a virulent pro-war hawk, first told Libby that Valerie Plame had sent Wilson to Niger to attempt to discredit the administration’s line on Iraq’s nuclear weapons programs.
These same intelligence sources alleged that Wurmser, as Bolton’s special assistant, got his knowledge of Plame’s classified identity from a colleague in his office, Frederick Fleitz, a CIA officer detailed to Bolton’s office from the agency who worked in the CIA’s Weapons Intelligence Non-Proliferation and Arms Control Center (WINIPAC.)
“We do not know yet which of the two called,” the former very senior intelligence official said.
http://www2.boomantribune.com/
re reagen
i respectfully disagree in the strongest of terms – massacres perpetrated under the aegis of your state dept all over latin & central america were every bit as sordid & bloody as this sorry business in iraq
reagan, a criminal in a long line of them
the institutions of fear – direced for the most part by rupert murdoch glowered under reagan & dominate the body politic of those united states
Separated at birth?
Re: The Heretik 5:09
Yer absolutely right about “the end of the beginning” so letz not ferget that there iz a LONG way ta go here…the first battle has not even been engaged yet so the war iz far from bein’ determined. I look forward ta yer posts so I ken get a bit of positive vib, however fleetin’.
Evil,
I don’t disagree Re Reagan being positive and well liked. And he did have political capital that this guy doesn’t have. One of the things I learned watching Watergate hearings intently was…. when Nixon’s caca hit the fan, he really had no one to help him. No one ever really liked the guy… unlike Raygun. I think it may be true that no one likes this guy either but we will see. Regarding the seriousness of these scandles, Iran-Contra was pretty serious stuff. But this could be worse. As Sen. Boxer put it this afternoon… we have 17,000 dead and wounded for what…?
Thanks to the link to Jeralyn’s take- sounds pretty solid..
Of course Jeralyn also has the most beautiful eyes ever put into a human head- I believe everything she says.
We who are about to laugh salute you!
A sense of outrage will find its release in a sense of humor tomorrow.
Tomorrow is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. It is rather the end of the beginning.
We would all be well advised to remember that the race does not alway go to the most fleet of foot, nor the battle to those who use the most aggressive and unseemly means.
A certain dignity arises and must be cherished in the deliberate pace of process moving always to one sure end.
Some now will surely have their end. Or is it the beginning of their end? What begins tomorrow is a first breath of fresh air in the dank cellar of our national soul.
Ken Starr likes to get his dick polished?
No news there.
Grandma
Be happy- the collapse of the story about Fitzy renting more space hardly makes indictments less likely- just means that he’s got all the space he needs to indict!
Have a bit of sherry- indictments tomorrow apparently!
Did Ms. Hamsher say Ken Starr was a polished dick?)
Juan | 10.27.05 – 4:56 pm | #
I think she mistyped I think she meant he was a dick polisher.
Juan – Re: The prior thread. I typed out a long response but then thought it may not be coherent. Let’s say for now that I respectfully disagree, and Reagan, like Clinton, was a brilliant politician who sold hope rather than fear, whether you liked his policies or not, and Hummergate and Iran/Contra are nothing compared with Traitorgate in terms of what was done or told to the American people. And, unlike Reagan, Preznit has no good will with anyone anymore, nor anyone upon whom he can turn for help.
All my opinion, and still long, sorry.
And, to enlarge on CK’s question, what’s the difference between “conspiracy” (which Sara wrote about in the last thread) and RICO?
So Fitz got his shoes shined for the big day tomorrow? Reminds me of the time I worked for a Wall Street Brokerage firm. They suddenly closed the office I was in putting all us bond tragers out of a job. Yea. We went form being part of the street (Wall) to being on the street. Anyway, 1st thing I did was go downstairs and get my shoes shined. Always makes you feel better. Try it.
(Note to juan… Did Ms. Hamsher say Ken Starr was a polished dick?)
I have been up, and I have down in the dumps; first I think they will all go down, then after a day of watching idiot T.V. I don’t believe anyone is going down.
Clemons retracts his “Fitz is leasing more space” theory, and all the links coming from the bad guys say they are worried. Are they setting us up in case Fitz isn’t ready tomorrow to say, loudly, he can’t find anything we did wrong.
Just very worried tonight that they will get away with all of this.
Jane or Redd a question for you.
Is a RICO indictment a possibility here? Given that Fitz is a “creative” prosecutor according to Hamity.
Let me speak, if I may, for us all here:
Cheerituri Te Salutamus!
That means: We who are about to cheer salute you!
[directed to our hosts, Jane & ReddHedd & Loren]
http://www.murphsplace.com/gladiator/glads.html
We who are about to die, salute you!
morituri te salutant
Latin for “we who are about to die salute you!”
“. . . indictments are expected Friday, there has been such a flurry of last minute plea bargains, including talks last night between Fitzgerald and Robert Luskin, attorney for Karl Rove , that announcements have been delayed.
And still could be.
According to sources close to the probe, Rove refused any plea.
The outcome of talks with Libby are not yet known, these sources said.
The purpose of Fitzgerald’s pressure at this point is to enable him “to get at as many senior White House officials as he can,” a federal law enforcement official said.”
Salute away.
http://turcopolier.typepad.com….._tyrannis/
“Sell off”
It’s not that President Clusterfuck has been a boon to the market before this.
The market was at about 10,600 the day he took office (DOW)
It’s now at 10,200
Investors have lost 400 points in five years.
Nice job chowderhead!
Better ta keep yer money in the mattress when Boy George is in office.
‘morituri te salutant’?
What is up with the recent pictures of Rove saluting? I thought he dodged military service?
Frist! at least hasn’t been indicted (yet).
“Ken Starr was always quite polished and he was a dick”…
Should have read: Ken Starr and George Will were always quite polished, and both are a dick.